The Journey to Freedom Podcast
Journey to Freedom serves as an exclusive extension of the Living Boldly with Purpose podcast series—a platform that inspires powerful transformation and growth. Journey freedom is a podcast hosted by Brian E. Arnold. The Journey to Freedom is an our best life blueprint exclusively designed for black men where we create a foundational freedom plan. There are five pillars: Identity, Trust, Finances, Health and Faith.
The Journey to Freedom Podcast
Why Trust Is Your Key To Success
Join an inspiring conversation with David Horsager, a global trust expert, exploring how trust shapes success in life, business, and relationships. Visit www.thepodcastingchallenge.com for tools to start a lead-generating podcast!
Gain practical insights on building trust, overcoming challenges, and fostering unity in a divided world.
Understand why small, consistent actions matter most. Watch now for actionable strategies to strengthen trust and live with purpose.
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David Horsager, renowned as the global authority on trust, takes us on a profound journey from humble beginnings on a Minnesota bean farm to revolutionizing how organizations approach trust worldwide. With raw honesty, he shares the struggle of starting his mission with just $1.40 to his name, living in a basement with black mold, and the unwavering faith that carried him through years of uncertainty.
The conversation reveals a groundbreaking insight that transformed businesses across six continents: most organizational problems aren't actually leadership, communication, or sales issues—they're trust issues. This revelation has led companies to drop attrition by millions of dollars, gain significant market share, and even helped the Navy reduce suicide rates after training 15,000 personnel.
In our increasingly divided world, Horsager explains why institutional trust has plummeted from 80% to just 7% in America and how algorithmic media is deepening our divides. "Every algorithm is set for selfishness," he warns, highlighting how social platforms manipulate our attention without building genuine connection. Yet amid this crisis, he offers hope through his research-backed framework of eight trust pillars that provide practical tools for rebuilding relationships.
Perhaps most compelling is Horsager's emphasis on personal development as the foundation of trustworthiness. "Organizations don't change—individuals do," he explains, sharing how his 31-year accountability relationship has shaped his character. In a culture obsessed with immediacy and entertainment, he advocates for the transformative power of consistency in small actions, humility in leadership, and intentional relationship-building with people different from ourselves.
Whether you're struggling with team dynamics, family relationships, or societal divisions, this conversation offers more than inspiration—it provides actionable wisdom to transform how you build and maintain trust in every area of life. Discover why Forbes named "Trust Matters" the top business book of the year and how its principles can help you become not just more successful, but more trustworthy.
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Every algorithm is set for selfishness, and that means for Facebook, instagram and the same. With all these, they just want eyeballs. You've got to know that you're being played every time you're on social media and you have to be incredibly intentional to not be deceived.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome to another edition of Living Boldly With Purpose Today. Oh my gosh, today is one of these podcasts that I'm so excited you know I've done I don't know if you know this, david, but I've done over 170 episodes of the Journey to Freedom. I've done over 60 episodes now of Living Boldly with Purpose and almost every single episode I've been talking about you and what you've been able to do in my life and how you helped me and I finally get you onto my podcast and I finally get to talk about it. And I don't even know how much you know about how much the event that I went to yours that impacted me. And so David is our guest today and we're going to talk a lot about how the things that he does. But it was probably about a year and a half, almost two years ago.
Speaker 2:I was invited to a seminar that was based on trust and I had no clue. I was just, you know, somebody invited me, said you got to show up, you got to be here, and I get to this room and I realized that I don't know a lot about how trust impacts us. I don't know about. You know how it's impacted my life and different things, you know, and he pulls out these things like, hey, we need to make a shield, and I'm like, what the heck is a shield, you know? And but one of the things that kind of spurred on the changes in my life is, I went to the seminar and, you know, as people are coming up and speakers are coming up, I'm looking around the room and you know, and I'm, as you can tell, I'm a person of color and I'm looking to see how many other folks of color in the room and I, you know, I say to myself all the time, david, I say it doesn't matter, color doesn't matter, race doesn't matter. And yet, when I go to places, I always count. I see who's in the room, who looks, looks like me, who's doing the things, and you had some incredible speakers of color that came up and were speaking. There wasn't a lot of us in the room, but the information was so impactful it changed the way that I thought it changed my.
Speaker 2:You know, I guess, sometimes, when you say, I guess, I don't know, aristotle said when the student appears, whoever said that, you know, the teacher's ready when the student appears, and I'm like, all right, the student is here now. The teacher showed up and so for three, three and a half days that I was there, I was soaking up the information like a sponge and I came back and said, well, how do I get this One? Why is my community not here? And I've kind of realized over time, is the circle of people not the fault of their own that came to your seminar are just not circles that my community runs in all the time. And so I was fortunate enough to be invited by one of our good friends named Scott, and he's been on one of our podcasts here that he said I want you to be invited by one of our good friends named Scott. He's been on one of our podcasts here that he said I want you to be here. And it has impacted and changed.
Speaker 2:I came back and I got together with a few other men and I said I want to do something. How do I do it right this second? And they're like, well, you can't just do it right this second, but they were willing to engage with me. They met with me. I had a whole bunch I don't know 10, 15 meetings with a guy named Mark Williams and Cornelius and Scott and they just kind of, they just loved on me. They loved on me and they listened to me and they let me just talk and talk and talk and put out all this stuff.
Speaker 2:And so my podcast that I just talked about, journey to Freedom, came out of that. It was I put some coaching stuff together and I said, you know, and I started, you know, with God and I said God, what do you want me to do? I think you want me to work with people of color and he goes well, I want you to work with black men. And I'm like, well, I don't think I want to work with Black men because it's going to be tough to do it and we just don't, our community just doesn't. We don't trust ourselves, which is hard to do. We don't trust our wives, our spouses, our women. Very well, we don't trust our communities. You know, sometimes we don't trust white culture. I mean, we have a huge issue with trust. And I'm like, well, how am I going to get this information? And I said I'm just going to start interviewing successful Black men and find out exactly what it is that they do or have been doing to be successful. And to me, success isn't you know the amount of money you have, it's. You know how do you interact into your community, how does your community respect you? You know how do you walk through life knowing that you're living in purpose that we're talking to today, and so this journey. And so when people ask me, well, why are you doing this? I say David Horsager, I had this seminar and I went to it and I learned all this stuff, and now I'm going to throw up on you and tell you everything that I learned as a result of it and you're going to be better for it, and so I don't know how well that's working, but I have people that I get to interview. It has been the biggest blessing over the last year and a half in my life being able to do the podcast and being able to talk to men that I never thought possible. Some are famous singers, some are, you know, I talked to a rapper yesterday. Some are military folks, Some are, you know, you know actors, and it's just.
Speaker 2:I did a podcast when I first started. There's a gentleman that I've been watching. His name is Myron Goldman, a black gentleman who talks about business strategy and you know, and talks and helps people through biblical principles. Learn about the Bible, you know. Learn about not only the Bible, but learn about business. Learn about the Bible, you know, learn about not only the Bible, but learn about business. And I said when I first came back and I was telling I'm going to Myron's going to be on my podcast. I promise you, it took me one year, and two weeks ago he finally came onto my podcast, and so that was one of the highlights of this.
Speaker 2:But now I get to have you on, and so I've asked David to tell his story. I know I told you all that just because I wanted to give context to why I'm so excited. But I'm going to have us tell a story and then we're going to chop it up about all the things, a lot of things that I learned, gonna want to go back and listen to not only that. You're gonna want to share it with somebody, because somebody's gonna get like what I got. Now I'm special and I know I'm special. There's issues with with how excited I am, but I want to make sure that that you listen. So, dave, thank you for being on. I know I just I talk more than I usually talk at the beginning, but I just want you to be able to tell your story. Tell us who you are and why I got so excited about you.
Speaker 1:Oh my Well. Thank you so much, dr David Horsire. Trust Edge Leader. I'm the CEO of Trust Edge Leadership Institute, but I'm passionate about trust, how it affects organizations. It's so fun to be with you. It was so fun to have you at the Trusted Leader Summit All the stuff we're doing here out of the Institute.
Speaker 1:But you know my story grew up in the poorest County in Minnesota on a bean farm. Six kids I was the youngest mom and dad six kids grew up under great leadership. You can grow up under terrible leadership and learn a lot. You can grow up under good leadership and learn a lot, and, as I often say, it's not my fault. I had a good leader. Like, it's not anybody's fault, they didn't. It's just you learn from where you are, and I was fortunate that way. Skip Ford I was, you know.
Speaker 1:After college I went on to work with the biggest Christian sports camp in the country, ended up leading some there. Some people saw, at a very young age, an opportunity for leadership there, so that was great. My I basically ended up being asked to speak at events, and I built this leadership curriculum. I was younger though, so it was like youth events, christian youth events, that kind of thing and schools. But there was a company that asked me and basically I'm working with this company. I still remember where I was when the epiphany happened, first of all, when Lisa and I left that ministry, living on a golf course and all these kind of things, and we moved back to Minnesota to start this kind of speaking and consulting and coaching and we by October had $1.40 to our name, 60 cents in the home account, 80 cents in the business account, not another penny. Couldn't find an apartment that we could afford rent in. So 86-year-old Clara Miller, let us live in a basement with no windows, no bathroom and no kitchen. It had black mold on the walls. We could go three flights up and share her bathroom, two flights up, and she had a little half of a shelf on the fridge. We lived go three flights up and share her bathroom, two flights up, and she had a little half of a shelf on the fridge. We lived there for two years. We were on our knees, fasted every Wednesday for 24 hours. We were just, you know, and I was just it's just crazy Like we had nothing. We put everything we had into this.
Speaker 1:I remember asking my brother you talk about, you know, living boldly, and this isn't me. I asked my brother. I said you know this isn't, by the way, advice for everybody. But I said, should I get a part-time job? Should Lisa go back and teach again? No, we're in our twenties. And he said, david, you need to focus on this 100%. If you do, you'll make it, but if you, if you deviate you know you've heard the statement diluted focus gets diluted results and I just said, okay, and so we, we had ups and downs for the decade from 1999 to 2009. We had some huge wins, speaking at the us coast guard academy and working with senior leaders, and we had some huge losing it about losing everything three times. So that first decade was tough, but it was early 2000. And, uh, basically, um, a couple of interesting things happened. One I was doing a ministry event and got asked to speak at the academy. Uh, and the guy said, hey, we need this here. The commanding officer, officer, just pull that bible stuff out. And, um, that that was something.
Speaker 1:It was around that time that I was, I remember. I remember it because it was the most expensive place. I feel like I'd ever stayed until that point. And you know, we've gotten putting up in the nice. But back then, before we had four kids and lisa and I are staying at the Lowe's Resort I think it's Scottsdale or Tucson, arizona and it was unbelievable. You know, it's like in those days like $500 a night or whatever they put us up in. We thought it was like amazing. But I still remember where I was on the deck looking at the stars after a full day at this conference leadership thing, and I'm looking up the stars and it wasn't some big epiphany, actually, it was just like a realization, like I don't think the problem they think they're having is the real problem. I don't think it's a leadership issue. I think they don't follow the guy because they don't trust him. And then I started thinking I don't think it's a sales issue over here. They don't trust the product or the person or something they're not innovating because they're not trusting each other, so they they're scared to share ideas. People don't trust that message, so it doesn't mean anything as far as marketing is concerned.
Speaker 1:I started to see this trust issue in a classroom. People aren't learning, why not? They don't trust the teacher or the message or the content or the whatever. So I started to see this trust issue. That was really important because that led to my grad work and I was not thinking about grad work, we didn't have really money for it.
Speaker 1:But I got in and I did my master's and when I started, a lot of people like think about their dissertation stuff. Later I knew exactly what I was going to write every paper on before I ever even started and everything I did was about trust. And then, of course, my cornerstone, my dissertation stuff was also, and that was groundbreaking because it was for many. It was one of the many people that are much more important than me thought it was interesting and really proved out how a lack of trust is the biggest expense in a company and biggest expense in an organization, and people have started to see it. It's a trust issue. Trust is the biggest expense in a company and biggest expense in an organization, and people are starting to see it. It's a trust issue.
Speaker 1:Trust is the root issue, not leadership, not communication, not sales, and so that was the first company we really used that in. They dropped attrition by two to four million dollars in nine months and then we had a company. You know as the years went on. Then we then, you know, we had the company. You know, as the years went on, then we then, you know, um. We had the fifth biggest company in the world, um, say they had engagement scores that go up for the first time in 14 years in a poisonous unit. And then we had, uh, 1450 companies say they gained 11 market share in a billion dollar unit and we had someone say it tripled their sales and we had someone say it saved their marriage. And we had um last year, the Admiral of the Navy that you saw at the event that.
Speaker 1:Admiral say, you helped us drop suicide rates in the Navy after we trained 15,000 people in this trust work. So that original framework came out of that work way back. That was revalidated again by a university in 2020 and outside university, that original framework of how trust is built globally. We've used that in pro sports teams. We've used it in businesses, global governments, presence of countries and companies across six continents. I'm passionate about it because I've seen it work firsthand and, of course, I've seen it work in myself, even even though I'm totally imperfect at everything I teach. But the journey there was. First of all, we had this content. Then I said, well, we should be able to measure it and measure gaps. So we built these measurement tools an enterprise trust index that measures not just like a Gallup, measures engagement. It measures trust and engagement. The team trust assessment, all the other ways measuring trust. We started to see results. I was speaking more and more, up to 100 times a year, more than that, I guess, some years. And then in 2012 or 13, we started certifying people to use this work, to train it in their companies, to share it through organizations. So if we really fast forward, there's a lot of other miracles for books and bestsellers. And the first one really is the miracle, the trust edge becoming a Wall Street Journal bestseller when I had no idea about marketing. A lot of people kind of buy their way to the top and all that. I didn't know what I was doing and that was a really a miracle. The other books, I think like even my little book that I'm not as proud of was 12 Weeks on the Hudson List or more, I guess. So anyway, the new book just came out. Trust Matters More Than Ever. That's really tool focused. That's got the tools you can use tomorrow morning. I'm really a trusted leader. I really love that book, actually for other reasons. So I just finished, turned in last week my next book that comes out next November, which is Trust at a Distance how to Manage Remote Work Teams, building Trust Remotely, basically, but a couple of things. So, way back, we started certifying people. The books you know have come out consistently and done well in spite of me. I speak at a lot of events.
Speaker 1:We do research. That's. The uniqueness here is that we do our own primary research, an annual study called the Trust Outlook. Any of your people can have it, but that puts us as really the thought leaders. I, I wish I could quote it exactly right, but I think forbes, just uh, what they said in 2024 was um, uh, david horser is the global authority on trust, or something like that. Um also said this book right back to my right trust matters is the top business book of the year. So it was kind of cool. Um, anyway, the you. Basically, we would say this out of Trust Edge Leadership Institute. These days we do four things. First, we do research that keeps us fresh and relevant, on top of things. Then we do ICE, i-c-e. That's because we live in Minnesota, so we got to spell it. I love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 2:So the I is to fulfill this mission of developing trusted leaders and organizations.
Speaker 1:We do that, love it. So I the I is to fulfill this mission of developing trusted leaders and organizations, that we do that because it helps people the most. Trust is really what works. Trust really is what matters. A lack of trust really is the biggest expense in organizations, families and teams. So how do we? How do we do that? I is inspire a shift of thinking around trust. That's a lot of David. Actually. That's a lot of my speaking, my books, that's the research. I sit on some boards, advisory boards, and I'm on a board in Washington DC. I'm the only non-senator representative, the only non-member of Congress, that brings Republicans and Democrats together. So that's a lot of me practice.
Speaker 1:The C is clarify and measure trust in organizations and teams. So that's our enterprise trust index. That's our measurement tools. The E is equip and that's where we certify others to use our work, and that has taken a big level up this year. A few months you're going to see a whole transformation there.
Speaker 1:But it's amazing people like you that are part of this certified community that are using our trust work in context to solve big issues. So they're using it. Half of them about are using it in companies from you know where Ohio State University or United Health Group or whatever it is, and then about half are independent coaches that use it in their coaching practice. They might be certified in other things like DISC or StrengthsFinder. They're also certified in this trust work, and so they have access to our PowerPoints and our training material and our measurement tools and a really cool community. So that's the equip part of it. So I is inspire. Trust C is clarify and measure. Trust E is equip people to take this work to the world. So that's what we're doing today. There's a lot of things I'm excited about, but I'm really excited about the leveling up on our, our team and our platform. That serves those, those, those certified partners, even better.
Speaker 2:So cool because you know I've heard a lot before, but just to to kind of hear you walk through what that's like. I'd love to hear about your identity as you think about moving into trust. And you went from this person who's living in this room with mold and everything in it and you don't have it, and you say I'm going to go do this, I'm going to change. How did you have to change in order to be able to affect and work with so many just incredible individuals?
Speaker 1:Well, I think the one thing that people, as far as identity, have to have is, to me, trust. There's two things trusting God, trusting beyond yourself and also trusting yourself, and there's a verse in scripture that gets taken out of context about you trust himself will be put to shame or whatever that's. There's a truth to that, but it's different than the one I'm talking about. There is a part of we need to trust how God made us the best God made us to be, the trust, and many people don't trust themselves because they make commitments that they don't keep. So when they say I'm going to be there and they don't, they start to not trust themselves and then they think no one else could be trustworthy. You've got to make and keep commitments if you're going to be trust, mostly to trust yourself. It's like the idea love your neighbors yourself.
Speaker 2:You got to love yourself.
Speaker 1:If you're going to love someone else, well, same with trust. If you're going to build trust, you got to trust yourself. So I think the one massive gift that I was given growing up in an entrepreneurial family- hey, it's Dr B, and let me ask you something just here real quick.
Speaker 2:Are you tired of doing the same thing over and over and not getting the results you want? Are you serious about making some changes this year that will impact you in a huge way? Maybe you're putting out content right now and it's not turning into customers. Or maybe you're uploading videos, but you're not sure why or how it's even going to help. You know, I see a lot of people that are making a whole bunch of cold calls to the wrong people and no one's answering. No one wants to talk to you. It might just be that you're just doing what you've been doing and crossing your fingers hoping it finally works this year, but let me tell you what. That is not a strategy and it will continue not to work.
Speaker 2:That's why I created the podcasting challenge and it's coming up fast. In just a few days, I'm going to walk you through the mindset, the tool set and the skill set you need to create a powerful podcast. That's right, a podcast. You won't believe what a podcast can do, one that builds real value and creates new clients. And if you grab a VIP ticket, you'll get to join me for a daily Zoom Q&A sessions where I'll personally answer your questions and help you tailor everything to your goals. This is your moment. This is your year. Go to thepodcastingchallengecom right now and save your seat. The link is in the show notes and the description. Thank you for watching these podcasts.
Speaker 1:Now let's get back to the conversation that were, uh, my, my dad was entrepreneur, my brothers have started businesses and and my, there was a big belief. And I know not everybody gets this, I know it's not fair, but my family believed in me and they believed in the best of me and that was massive. You know, lisa's grandma said something and Lisa said it at her funeral. She said you know, grandma Teddy, she believed in us even when we didn't believe in ourselves. And she and there's something critical she said it much more eloquently, but there's it's it's critical to have someone that believes in you even when you don't believe in yourself. And I had that. So, when you talk about trust, I had this trust, this belief, even in 2014, when I was in the pits and I thought or, excuse me, 2004, when I just thought am I ever? Is this ever going to really grow? People say it's great, but I can't afford. You know, whatever.
Speaker 1:I remember when our first kid our first kid of the four is the one that remembers when we didn't have money, kind of, because in kindergarten, public school she's the only kid in the kindergarten that the parents wouldn't buy a $7 t-shirt for all the kids to go on the little trip together and the teacher ended up buying it for us. I'll never forget that. But there was also a belief that we're going to do this, we can do this, God can guide us. We really did have a trust, a concrete trust in God and a trust in each other and a trust that we were given this to do it. And faith grew little by little. Some people are like oh, you had that, so you knew the North Star. No, not every day. Now we can look back and remember, but it wasn't, you know, so easy.
Speaker 1:So I think a lot of people miss out. You talk about living boldly. A lot of people miss out on amazing miracles because they don't live boldly and don't step out in faith and don't do all they could do. I mean, I can't imagine there's nothing I'd rather be doing. You know so.
Speaker 1:But I almost missed it. I almost took other things because if another job would have come up many times when I couldn't put food on the table, one time I almost did. I got an offer. All I had to do was sign it and turn it back in. I made a call, called the CEO to just ask a question about it and they thought I was like fussing and they pulled it, the offer when I would have taken in a second, and then I didn't have any more and went back to focus on the book and I remember we didn't have much in the first book.
Speaker 1:Trusted, I said, Lisa, I've been working on this after my grad work. I think if I just focus for two months I can get it done. Just focus Two years later, oh wow. Focus two years later, oh wow. I mean I had no help from Chad, GPT or anything you know. So there was a lot of steps in there. And I mean I think the other thing is surrounding yourself with people like Lisa, my wife, who it would be really hard if you had, someone like nagging and needy and wanting to buy the best of stuff when you don't have money, and like she was. You know she was with me and that was massive in this whole, this whole process. I mean she was a missionary kid in Africa and came back. You know, like she, I, we were game for living in that. We lived there for two years. The day we left there was two inches of water in the basement. No way we're trying to get our stuff out of there.
Speaker 1:Well, it was not all too soaked and um so you know, I don't, I don't know, but but there's a couple, there's gifts along the way and I can talk about this that might would help others, and that is the tool. Like this framework turned out to have lasting power and it was simple enough for people to understand and it was clear and it was usable, actionable. We hear it all the time from the biggest companies in the world like, oh, I can finally use this. Under each of those pillars, we have tools, simple tools, so we're good at taking the research and simplifying it to things that people can use, and that was. You know. I can talk about the difference in what we do and others and why it works, but let me you know yeah, I want you to.
Speaker 2:I I have a couple. Just, you know I get clarifying questions because I one of the things that I've been uh wrestling with over is is the family and the unit, and you know, we I was talking to somebody yesterday, we were talking about how our grandmas used to, you know, talk to us and say you're going to be great, you're going to be wonderful, you're going to be amazing, you got this. And I don't know if that's kind into folks or to their kids, or they're just taking their kids around to try to give them experiences. How much of what your belief in are them telling you? Your grandma say, hey, I want you to get the best of you out of you. You know, and you're going to be this great played a part in you going. I'm going to go through this, I'm going to.
Speaker 1:I actually don't know exactly, but I can tell you this it wasn't just saying good job. I don't remember my dad saying much. I don't remember him saying he loved me that much, okay, but I do remember feeling it, seeing the beliefs see, sensing it. Yeah, I also yeah, because I think it's a big problem to say. One of the worst things for self-esteem is saying to someone good job when they didn't do a good job. Oh gosh, yes, yeah, that's false, and we've got a lot of that happening in the world today. Letting people fail, letting people learn, letting people win. I think that's a lot better.
Speaker 1:I think I could have done a better job and for me personally, it was different because one of the agonies for me was being gone from my family and all the speaking I had to do, because there was times early on when I'd finally get a speaking event and I felt like you know, we just had a kid three days ago at born or something, and I feel like I never missed a birth. But I mean, it was close and I'm it's God grace in that and yet feeling like I got to go harvest they're not going to have anything to eat and just that tension was tough, lisa and I talk about it now. It's like we're made to be, we're very unified, but we're good apart some and good together some, like there's some good to that, but we also one of our kids was authentically sharing this last weekend, easter weekend, like you know that I had to leave, sometimes when it was tough for mom, four kids, five and under, and so there's a little bit of blame toward me, and so, you know, there was challenges with that too, and I felt that I mean I'm sensitive, so I felt bad and yet like what should I do here? You know? So that's part of that entrepreneurial thing. I think there's a couple things around that. One is we have to, um, you know, we have to deal with that and we have to really know what our priorities are and why my family, my wife, would know God is my priority, family's a priority, even when I'm gone, me is a priority, even when I'm gone.
Speaker 1:I think there is a little deception in our culture today of selfishness and of like you're not a good dad, for instance, if you're not at every single game, and I think that's totally unhealthy. I remember being at this Christian sports camp and the guy stood up and gave a testimony. It's like how his mom was great because she was at every game and I'm like that's not the reason my dad wasn't, he was farming, he was out in the field. He came maybe to one game a year. He missed parents night for my sisters, which they remember, which was kind of that was a little tough, but he, they all know now like he loved them. It's like you had to harvest those beans through the night, or you don't get them, they get cracked, whatever. So um, I, I, I just think it's also there's an unfair lie of what makes good and not good in some ways. But still, time does spell love.
Speaker 2:I mean love spell, you know yeah, no, and I can remember I think of, like when my kids were, you know, growing up and you know now that they're older and you know my someone who played baseball and I'm like there's 67 games, like if I go to 67 games we don't eat. I mean, we gotta make a decision here. This you know that's. You know, and I'm sure that there's some parents were able to do that, but I so agree with you on that. You know that whole aspect of that, you could feel it.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of parents there at every game that aren't loving in other ways.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:They're not helping in other ways and they're not letting them grow up and they're helicoptering and there are a lot of other things. So I think every one of my kids they know that, they know that I love them no matter what, and I think I don't think that's the only being at those. Now, time does matter, so there's a truth to it, but it's also not, um, it's not only that. Yeah, in fact, by the way, this is interesting for people listening Maybe. I was just reading a piece of research that said the number one most important builder of self-confidence in youth. You have a guess, teacher? It's not saying good job.
Speaker 2:Oh well, you're talking about what they're doing. Is, I don't know, awarding them for something they did?
Speaker 1:I don't know, no no, no, awards have nothing to do with it. Okay, number one self-confidence builder, self-esteem builder in youth is helping them know where they came from. Really, you, you that, you, you talk about identity. This is why it can be really challenging for the adopted, because that and that's why there's a sense of I need to know where I came from, even if it wasn't good. It has nothing to do with good or not, it is knowing where you came from and seeing where you came from you talk about identity.
Speaker 1:So we would take like family meetings and say, hey, grandpa came from here, or he logs came down the river and many people died when they took the log jams out and he opened up the lot. You know, whatever it is, they knew where they came from and, of course, it's good if you can give some proud moments that they can be proud of too in their family. And, as you can imagine, this is also a whole stack against black people, because many didn't get the opportunity to know where they came from. So doesn't mean it's fair, it's just research it's research.
Speaker 2:We're saying that yeah so I'm.
Speaker 1:so this is like why it's it's really important to share, not so, not all. It's important to share where you came from, and this is why god can be a replacement. Hey, here's where you really came from, you know so Wow, that just, I mean that.
Speaker 2:Just I mean I got chills as you were saying that, cause I started thinking about the group that we took to Alabama. And you know, I took a group of men to Alabama to kind of just see our roots and stuff. And then I have my. I have twin boys that we adopted and one of them is going through. Uh, we gave him. He says I kind of want to know where I came from, I want to know. And we gave him like the 23andme kit or something. We let them take it. And then he found, uh, like when we adopted him we had a um, we were at the agency in in in brooklyn and he had a little brother that was there at the same time but the new adopted parents were taking him. And we asked that, we said we'd love to be able to connect and these guys can still know each other as brothers. And that family said we don't want anything to do with them, we don't want them to know. And then so when they did the 23andMe, they found that brother and that brother said he didn't even know he's adopted till he was 18. And then when he found out, then you goes well, how come, you know he remembers glimpse of. You know there were four when we got him and it was just amazing. And now he found his mom and he found and he's like now he has this other family.
Speaker 2:But he's asking me questions like well, why didn't you tell us all this? Why didn't you, even if it was good or bad, how come you didn't reach out and try to find all this information for me? And I'm like I did the best I could. I had no idea. I didn't. You know, when we got it, we, you had some issues. You guys were crack babies. This wasn't like we. Just, you know there was. You know when we, when we got you, we had, you know we worked. But at the same time, you know I figured, hey, someday in life, if you want to, we will support that. But at the same time, you're 100% on that where you're just saying, wait a minute, that's to him now. That is so important to know where his roots are, to know they went to I guess you know an uncle's funeral or something not too long ago, but just and met all the family, you know. And then you know, and now they're asking themselves questions why and why and why.
Speaker 2:And so, oh my gosh, I want to kind of jump to the, I guess, the macro, and then maybe we can come micro on trust, because I think about our country and our nation and you know how divided and split we are and we don't trust, and I think a lot of it is just, you know, this lack mentality If you have something, then I can't, and so I have to, you know, back and forth. But that all talks about trust. I mean, that all goes back to we don't trust each other. Because we don't trust each other, we can't get along with each other. I guess, what could we do, or what can we begin to start thinking that would allow us to begin this process of I love you because you're God's child. Now I got to start trusting you, but I don't know how. And then we'll go to the micro, like families.
Speaker 1:I mean there's, there's a whole lot there. I think, for instance, the only way I've seen trust or the only way I've seen racism go down in a space is when people know people.
Speaker 1:Yes, when an individual builds a relationship with an individual, they start. You see that happen with so many people. And Lyndon B Johnson meets someone, an african, becomes actually friends. You know, and really martin luther king had a lot to do with that too. But but if you think of and the other way you malcolm x, when he became had, it's it's like when we we start to lose racism when we have a friend. That's that's one thing. So we have to build relationships, which is a lot of your work and scott's work and are so. We have to build relationships, which is a lot of your work and Scott's work, and we have to build relationships with people that are different than us.
Speaker 1:Sad statistic from the trust outlook is this 70 or 75% of people believe diversity is important for there to be a high performing team. Okay, and that makes sense. 75% of people believe that there needs to be a high-performing team. Okay, and that makes sense. 75% of people believe that there needs to be diversity on teams for it to be high-performing, and 7 out of 10 people want to be on teams with people just like themselves. That's a big problem? Yeah, it is. We don't even want to be on high-performing teams then. Right, yeah, so it takes work to be with people that are.
Speaker 1:You know, we're in echo chambers, you know. Now, I mean it's just there's a lot of things we can do, but one is we have to get, we have to be motivated by love beyond ourselves. We have to take the risk of relationship no-transcript a black person and, uh, somebody else from another race that was his best friend, like we knew. Like him, saying that story of who was with him, who he was friends with, was really important to my. What made me later, right, tell stories of stories of truth, of the positive, because if we just hear stories of, yeah, I had that time when I was mugged, oh, what color was that? Like you know what I mean. So, but the macro of that a little bit is, as you know, there weren't the good old days for everybody, yes, but there also were things. There are different things today, with technology speeding things up, deep fakes, um, the incentivization in government to divide, I mean that's new things. So if you look back at the history of trust, I sometimes do a very brief one, and that is a long, long time ago. I didn't trust you for two reasons. One, I didn't know you. You're different color. You are a different mountain, you speak a different language, so I don't trust you. Or number two, I do know you and I've seen how you act, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:Then we go forward and this is where we get to our country in the last hundred years and that's institutional trust. And institutional trust was good in that it slowed it down, it made, made it deeper and stronger, and you could have a bad politician but not lose trust in the government. You could have a bad teacher, not lose trust in education. And then, about 40 years ago, institutional trust tanked in America, almost, believe it or not, across races that were surveyed. 80% of Americans before that time trusted our government to do basically what was right. Now it's like 7%. Maybe it's crazy, yet the media is the only thing at worst. If you think back, we had the news, not anymore. Where do you get your news? You get your news, you get your news and we don't hear truth. Nobody's hearing the truth. They're hearing an amplified perspective in most cases, education. All the institutional trust change.
Speaker 1:And then we had distributed trust. You had Uber and blockchain and all this, and what's important for this audience today is in the study just about a year and a half ago, trust came back to being as personal as ever and there's a place for institutional, there's a place for distributed by, like Lyft and Uber. There's a place for other. But we're coming back to personal because deep fakes and manipulated Google reviews and all these things that we want to see and smell and touch and know you, and so I think this is trust will be built again on relationships and we need to get as real and close as we can.
Speaker 1:This is why in-person is back. We want in-person events. We want in-person because we can build trust there. So, on one side, I'd say that. On another side, I would say it's worth noticing the positive, which many people see, the negative today, and it's magnificently negative. I mean, dc is magnificently tragic. I can tell you so much around why trust is being lost and hurt and affected out there, compared to not too many years ago, in some ways at least. But I was going to say something about coming back to creating as much personal as we can. I can't even remember it because I started thinking about government.
Speaker 1:So, by the way, a hundred years ago, you know, the Senator, a Republican and Democrat from California, would duke it out on the floor and then they would get on the train and three nights they would share meals, talk, be with family.
Speaker 1:They don't ever talk. I was just talking to a representative yesterday and he said we don't. After orientation, the freshman senators and representatives come in and at the end of the breakfast they say okay, now Republicans get on the red bus and go back to the red hotel, democrats get on the blue bus, go back to your hotel. They don't ever even see each other as human, connect, work together. There's so many incentives against working together today. Both sides pull committee assignments, discipline people when they try to cross the aisle and work together. It's a tragedy and it's exactly what we don't need. We say in our work the bigger the problem, the more connection and collaboration you need, and that is the opposite of what we're getting in our government today in the US. So I don't know. Maybe I'll come back to some smart thing I maybe was going to say, but probably wasn't.
Speaker 2:When I think about us and I think about all the information that we're impacted with. I mean, even when I was in the 90s and I started being a professor and I was a computer teacher, I began to talk about this thing that was coming called the internet. And then the internet came and now it just continues to bombard us and bombard us. And it's like what can we trust, because there's so much? And now it just continues to bombard us and bombard us. And it's like what can we trust Because there's so much? And now, with all the algorithms and everything else that say hey, I saw you watch this, so I'm only going to feed you what you like so far, and now we don't get this, how do we show up saying I need to trust something and I know it's relationships.
Speaker 1:But then, even on that, I mean, I'll give you some simple things really quick. Number one you got to get rid of you got to go to incognito when you look at news and you've got to intentionally look for both sides, or a multitude of sides from most trusted sources that you can. But you got to make sure and read both sides and you got to do it in incognito, so it's not um watching you watching because otherwise, every algorithm is set for selfishness, and that means for facebook.
Speaker 1:Okay, it is set to make money for themselves. So how can I keep my eyeballs on you the most, on the most, whatever thing that you watch? And that's same with instagram and the same with you, know all these?
Speaker 2:they just want eyeballs.
Speaker 1:So, um, you know there's a load more we could say about that, but you've got to know that you're being played every time you're on social media and you have to be incredibly intentional to not be deceived.
Speaker 2:Wow so yeah, so I mean that's so, and then you go. Okay, so now I, I walk into my, you know local church, or I walk into and I go, well, what do? What do I trust? Because as soon as I go and I, you know, I mean I think my phones listen to you all the time too, right. So you're in church, you hear this, and so as you leave, you get a message that says that's not right, that's not, that's wrong, you're thinking wrong, you're thinking wrong, you're thinking bad. And then we get this entertainment thing, which is you know, I'm trying to be educated, I'm trying to learn, uh, but I'm getting distracted by all the things that I'm trying to be entertained by by the way, this was talked about in scripture ages ago.
Speaker 1:We will be squelched by life's worries and riches and pleasures. In America, that verse is to us we are more rich than we've ever been. We're more rich than we've ever been. We're more worried than we've ever been, and we seek pleasure more than we ever have. I can tell you I sit on the plane today and it used to be just 10 or 20 years ago 25% of the people reading a book. Now it's 90% playing Candy Crush. They can't sit for two seconds and put some good input in. Yeah, it's entertaining, and people that aren't entertained all the time they're getting crazy, like they're like. Oh, I got to look at my phone. Take someone else.
Speaker 1:A couple interesting books I just read two weeks ago. One of them was the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by Comer, which is great, and number two, much different. You got to get over the Effenheimer coming through it. But is the Comfort Crisis? Comfort Crisis? Okay, and they're totally different, but they both have truth and so, anyway, I listened to both of them and I was stuck in airports and stuff, so I didn't. Now I have the hard copy of Comer's book, but anyway, yeah, that's a oh my gosh, you think of all the you know so much entertainment.
Speaker 2:how much of our lives? Because I think about relationships and I think about improve myself and I think about living in purpose, and I think about all the things that you did up until you you, you started doing it. I guess how much of your time was was made on just improving yourself. And how much time should we be spending of our lives making me better, making me become the person that I need to be in order to do what God put me on this planet to do? Because I think we have this so skewed and we all have the same 24 hours a day, and yet some people thrive and some people don't, and I don't think people are working on themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're not. That's the biggest job. The biggest job is working on yourself, and this is a massive problem today, because you can be a YouTube sensation and your character isn't grown to the extent that you can handle it. So what happens is we say this all the time. It's my own quote, but it is organizations don't change, individuals do. Okay, an organization never changes unless an individual does, but when an individual does, then a team can, a country can a company, you know. So it's got to be. You've got to focus on self.
Speaker 1:We've heard this so many times in our work. This is why we start personal, even though we have processes for organizational built on trust, hiring and all these other things, but processes for organizational built on trust, hiring and all these other things. But the Admiral of the Navy said this didn't work here until I started using it myself. The Dean at Penn State University said this didn't work here until I started using it myself. So we have to start with ourselves. By the way way, this is so prevalent, okay, do you remember? I loved um keller, the the uh pastor out in new york, and he said the the problem and it was right. After a different pastor, um, there's a couple big falling outs.
Speaker 1:One was willow creek that pastor and the other was, um, uh, up at mars hill, okay, and and the Mars Hill pastor, like he had never been to a pastor conference until he was speaking at one at 20 something he had never. He grew from like a hundred people to 15,000 people in like three years, some very short timeframe. Yeah, his character wasn't built over time to be able to handle the success or the impact Right, and it all fell down and he didn't work on himself, he worked on. He was a great speaker, he was really engaging and all this uh uh, briscoe or whatever, but um, not. Oh, gotta get the name right.
Speaker 1:Anyway whereas Keller, you know he said it was good for me that my church grew over 40 years because I had to build my character along with the impact of the church. And he was slow and steady and you listen to his words. He wasn't so flamboyant but man was it truth. Every time he was in the word, he was studying, he was fresh and relevant. I think of two people that I looked up to a lot, both in their 80s, and they both are really well-known leadership experts and I've been on stage with both of them and I thought this one would be really interesting to me. I've read his books and known him and then I met him in the green room and I thought I never need to be around him again. He hasn't gotten better for years. He wasn't fresh, he wasn't relevant, he was egotistical, he was a lot of things that he spoke against in his books. The other one was named ken blanchard and ken was vibrant and humble and selfless and was fresh every time, even until now he's health issues, but very recently and I thought that's who, if I'm still called to speak, you need to be that and that takes work and that takes work even at 81, 82.
Speaker 1:You know, scripture says at least five times God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. I'll tell you something right now, our country is being opposed, absolutely. Organizations are being opposed. Their YouTubers are being opposed. They're YouTubers are being opposed. There's so much ego and self-focus, and and and the God opposes the proud. So we're being opposed by God. Wow, and humility is, you know, is the only way, and humility is magnetic, is the only way, and humility is magnetic. So that guy I think of Ken Blanchard, who sold more books of his kind and he's as humble as they come. It's just amazing.
Speaker 2:Like what a guy oh my gosh, you just kind of talked about. Our culture is so fast. We want something right now. We want something microwave, and if we can't become the person who can do what we're supposed to be doing, there's a a gap. There is a huge gap in what that, that identity is, that the person. And then when I see that, I think about people, that we have to be around, because I think part of our personal development has to be seeking out mentors, has to be seeking out people, and we don't do. We think we can just watch a couple of youtubes and then we got it down, or we can you know, this is where mentors are important.
Speaker 1:Had they been critical for me all the way along, I still have them, people, and I'm in the speaker hall of fame with zig ziglar and whatever. I just, this week, sent my last couple speeches off to two mentors much older than me and said can you give me some critique, like I, I want to get? How do I get better? More importantly than that, though, and one of the questions you'd asked ahead of time, and I just got to make sure I hit on it, because it's been the most critical at least one of the very most critical parts of who I am of healthy success, whatever you want to call success and that is my accountability group want to call success, and that is my accountability group.
Speaker 1:31 years we've met together, and you know, scott, but I mean these guys. They love each other, we love each other. We'll have each other's back for anything, and we love each other so much We'll get in each other's grill and we will talk about the issues. And we will talk about how can we be better fathers, better parents, better husbands. You can't talk about anybody else, can't talk about what your wife could do better, can't talk about it. You can only talk about and and ensure what you can do better. And that group of four guys, um, that's been huge and and pretty uncommon, I've heard oh yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2:I I wish I had. You know, I think about every time scott says he's meeting with you guys, I'm like I want to go. I mean, it's just because I don't. I don't have a group of men that you know I'm trying to develop that and create that and uh, but yeah, that wasn't something that you know, that was even thought about. I, you know, it seems like the friends that you know I went to college with that and maybe because I just didn't know, or the relationships whenever we get together, all we want to do is talk about the past and I'm like I just didn't know. Or the relationships whenever we get together, all we want to do is talk about the past and I'm like I, that happened 30 years ago. I, there's nothing that I. It was fun, you know, but it's kind of they're stuck in this time warp and I think a lot of it is because I'm developing as a person.
Speaker 2:I spend every day working on me, making sure I grow, and I don't know if they are. I don't know if they are they're being entertained, but if they are they're being entertained, but they're not growing.
Speaker 1:Oh, remember, we won that JV championship.
Speaker 2:Exactly Like, okay, great, I mean, it's wonderful, and they want to be on faith and they want to text and they pray for me for this, which I want to do. But how do you I mean, you guys had 31 years, but there's some new groups or new mentorships or new circles that you're probably part of how do you evaluate and say, OK, this is a great group for me. Is it just through prayer? I mean what? How do you know that you're moving in the right direction? Because sometimes it can be bad.
Speaker 1:It's true that it can be. I've been a part of good and bad and bad. It's been worth it more to take the risk and jump in and quit than it is to not. So I was in a group that changed my world and not faith-wise they're third. Like I was very uniquely fortunate to get asked to be a part of this group. I mean, the best athlete that ever was is known for being in that group. Dave Winfield was the only person drafted in all three sports baseball, basketball, football. Right, it's a movie producer, a pro. He was the other guy. That was the reason I did stuff for the Yankees. I was invited to be that group but it was expensive and I thought I don't have pennies for this. But it was a part of this group of 30. And that group I will tell you that the next year was the first year I did seven figures because of that.
Speaker 1:You talk about being who you're around, and that was a decade or whatever ago. So there's a different group that I'm a part of now that isn't paid, other than the accountability group I had. We just met each other at an event. We all are running learning and development businesses and speak a bunch and we just kind of connected and it was at that event we started talking and now we've been together, I'd say at least a decade, and we meet twice a year and we do quarterly calls and I am way better because of them. We sharpen each other in several different ways. So, first of all, those kind of groups we share leads. Someone said, oh, you aren't speaking, can you speak next year at this? And then they got four people that are you know. It's just amplified our growth and speed to success in certain ways. So, ideas what are you using for a CRM? No, I changed from that to this. What about your LMS?
Speaker 1:What about your you're doing podcasts this way or doing them that, and this one's really believes in podcasts. I'm like I just canceled mine because I was too busy and flying out, didn't want to cancel, you know it's like, but different perspectives. So, um, those kind of groups are super valuable and I've been a part of several what we call Mastermind groups that are free, that we just came together and we were kind of a equal, equals in ways, but different, and we started meeting. I've been a part of three paid types. One was that really expensive one that was worth it. One was what many would call expensive and really high ego guy. Wasn't worth it for the guy. But even in that one I met two people We'd only met three times. That changed everything for me, so it was worth that I did it.
Speaker 1:And then a different one was meet monthly here in minnesota and, um, that, that one I got in free because I spoke to them. It's supposed to be 14 grand or something, and so I, I, I, uh, I did it for the year and, um, you know so, but, but I tried it and I learned and I got to know some people, but there's a couple that were really massive the, the national one, so it is who you're around. But you gotta not just be around, you gotta balance. For me, I've gotta balance the business success type with the faith and family type, and sometimes you can put both of those together and some of those. You'll be surprised that we're all of us are talking about faith and family more than we were about business.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love it. I got one question more for you and then I'm going to let you kind of fill in what we haven't talked about. Sometimes I talk to people. We know that kids need moms and dads and they need parents and they need guidance. But the other part that we kind of flip it around, that we don't always think about, is what does it mean to be a dad? What does it mean to be able to take that and say I'm a dad, and how has that changed your life in the way that you operate, just because you're a dad? Not because the kids need you, but because you get to be a dad?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and now mine are old, getting older, like I've got one working 20 feet from me through that glass door here at the Institute. So yeah.
Speaker 1:I've got four kids 22, 20, 18, 16. One will be graduating here from high school in about a month and I'll tell you they're all different and they're amazing. I've learned a lot and grown a lot and have more growing to do, but I think I'm super driven, naturally, and I would have been more. There's so many things I've learned, but we had a really fun little conversation Easter weekend with all four of them about. It's fun now because we can openly talk about. Like you know, they asked like one of them asked like why did we exactly move back in 19,? You know, whatever she didn't really we didn't know. She was so frustrated that we moved and moved schools and that really hurt her, you know. So it was good Like we have a really open, positive relationship. But anyway, we're learning all the time.
Speaker 1:I'm still trying to, like you know, I have great relationships with them and I'm learning. There's times when, by the way, that when I didn't, when I pushed them away from like by being driven or asking them, you know, too much being too much accountability, dad, instead of just love. Listen to what you're going through, dad. So you know there's a lot there and Lisa and I, you know, prioritize our marriage, which I think is an important example for them. I think I often say to families the most important thing is not your love of your kids, it's your love of your wife for dads, for parents, because they need to see that Both your boys do and your girls do. But I've messed up in that focus and I've been out of balance on things and we're fortunate now because I'm able to have more margin in the business and life now.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Thank you for that. What did what? I was selfish because I asked you all the cool questions that I wanted to know what. What would you love to share with everybody that did they? You know one closing point or you know trust matters. I can't wait to have you put that book in my hands and start reading it.
Speaker 1:I mean I think it's worth shifting your thinking about trust. I mean there's people that just don't understand. No, trust is transparency. No, it's not. It's also confidentiality. It's like it's more complex than we might think and yet it's more critical than we might know. It matters more than ever.
Speaker 1:Trust is actually the only thing that really works in certain spaces and it is the the most helpful thing. We believe. The most helpful thing we can do for a family organization, a person, is increased trust. Because we increase trust or trustworthiness. That is the leading indicator of real success. I mean, attrition goes down when trust goes up. Costs go down, trust goes up Like.
Speaker 1:So I think Trust Edge dot com or David Horse Tiger dot com they can go see when trust goes up. So I think TrustEdgecom or DavidHorseigercom they can go see the books and different things at all, either of those. But there's free tools. There's a couple of hundred videos online I think you can watch. But I would look at the case for trust. I would look at that eight pillar framework. You can really solve against that eight pillar framework and of course, in Trust Matters More Than Ever, there's 40 tools you can flip to like I don't even want to read the book.
Speaker 1:I just want to learn how to increase trust in times of conflict. Look at the pause model or I need to rebuild trust. I've lost it. Look at the 10 steps for how you rebuild trust. Like it's just there. The tools are there to just use in those books, but probably you can get anywhere from trustedgecom or davidhorsigercom and I think those are some of the. There's plenty of free resources for people who don't want things. Of course, if people want to get certified, we want to welcome people like you into the fold, because no one can do it better in context than people in their context. But we give them some tools they can certainly use to increase trust. And yeah, maybe the last quote would be under the consistency pillar. We say all the time is it's the little things done consistently that make the biggest difference, not the big things, and that's true of trust. The only way to build a reputation is consistency, good or bad. If you're late, consistently, I will trust you, but to be late right.
Speaker 1:The only way to build a brand is consistency. So really think about when you get that big new idea, but what will I do consistently? Boy, I want to go work out Great, but what would you do consistently?
Speaker 2:Because a consistent short workout is better than one big workout. So so, so good. Thank you for sharing that. Is there a personal event that is in the that is something that folks can attend? Or, you know, I wish we were doing the leader summits again.
Speaker 1:We might bring those back sometime, but I've got loads of focus with my I'm a senior fellow at a university, I've got the the Institute we're running, we've got I'm I'm advising and on some more boards than I've been. So our focus there. So we're actually taking a little pause in that. It's hard. We keep getting people keep asking about it. I don't know if you know this, but we lost a few hundred thousand dollars on that every time we put it on. But we it was missional for us and our relationship with and all those people you know, like they, we just want it to be really nice and really valuable and we want people to feel really loved at that. So we had to rethink about it. But we will probably do that again and, of course, if people are in the certified community, then there's some event stuff there will be coming up. But I'm speaking all over so people can find the schedule. They can look for that.
Speaker 2:Oh absolutely, if you get the opportunity to be anywhere that he's at. I can promise you that this man has changed my life in ways that he probably doesn't even know, and you know to think that there's somebody out there that is talking about something that's so vitally important in our life, so incredibly necessary to be able to understand, and when he talks about there's eight pillars, there is truly eight pillars that you have to think about, and sometimes we just think, well, I trust you or I don't trust you, but there's so much more, and so I encourage you. You said there's a few hundred videos. I tell you, we both talked about working on yourself and making sure that you are a better person, and if you get the opportunity to become certified and go through a program, you will be a better person for it. And so, david, thank you for being on the show today, thank you for spending the time and taking the time. It's so. It just it just warms my heart so much that I get the opportunity to, to, to spend with you, and you know, take this time and now share you with the folks that that I know and the folks that are are part of my life.
Speaker 2:And so, as we try to do this hit the notification, the subscribe and all the YouTube stuff that we do, but make sure you don't just watch this stuff. Interact with it. Contact You'll look at the links, we'll put links in for you to be able to access and so, again, thank you, don't go away. I got an outro that goes in and then we will be see you on the next one. Don't forget your God's greatest gift he loves you. If you allow him to, we'll talk to you guys soon. Talk to you later.