The Journey to Freedom Podcast
Journey to Freedom serves as an exclusive extension of the Living Boldly with Purpose podcast series—a platform that inspires powerful transformation and growth. Journey freedom is a podcast hosted by Brian E. Arnold. The Journey to Freedom is an our best life blueprint exclusively designed for black men where we create a foundational freedom plan. There are five pillars: Identity, Trust, Finances, Health and Faith.
The Journey to Freedom Podcast
Faith Changed How I See Everyone: Seeing Humanity Through God's Eyes, A Conversation with Jason Tucker
Faith Changed How I See Everyone: Seeing Humanity Through God's Eyes,A Conversation with Jason Tucker
Ready to connect with stories that inspire faith and purpose? Kickstart your journey at www.brianearnold.com – meaningful conversations await!
Join an inspiring conversation with Jason, a creative entrepreneur sharing his journey from growing up in a tight-knit Minneapolis community to building bridges across cultures.
Hear about his powerful experience on a Civil Rights tour in Alabama, exploring history’s impact on today’s world, and how faith shapes his mission to spark meaningful conversations through imaginative storytelling with Group Law.
What if we could see people as God sees them? In this deeply personal conversation, Jason Tucker shares a transformative moment from his youth that forever changed how he views humanity. Standing on a junior high staircase, he experienced what he describes as a divine revelation about human beauty that has guided his approach to cross-cultural relationships ever since.
As a Black man who grew up in Minneapolis, Tucker developed unique skills for navigating diverse environments—from his predominantly Black neighborhood to educational and professional settings where he was often the only person of color. He shares how these experiences shaped his ability to build bridges across cultural divides while maintaining his authentic self.
The conversation takes a powerful turn when Tucker and Dr. Honor discuss their shared experience on a civil rights tour in Alabama. Initially hesitant to join because of emotional fatigue following George Floyd's death, Tucker describes how walking the same streets where history unfolded provided insights that books and films never could. The "palpable" atmosphere of the South helped him understand personal family decisions in a new light while challenging both men to reconsider how they engage with people across cultural differences.
They explore the tension between extending grace and setting boundaries in cross-cultural relationships, wrestling with when to prioritize others' comfort versus demanding recognition of one's full humanity. Their nuanced discussion touches on the apostle Paul's approach of becoming "all things to all people" while acknowledging the wisdom of knowing when to step back from harmful interactions.
Tucker's entrepreneurial journey reflects his integrated passions—creativity, faith, and human connection. Through his companies JHT Design Studios and Group Lore, he's found meaningful ways to use storytelling to facilitate important conversations, particularly helping young people explore faith questions through engaging science fiction narratives. His approach represents a powerful counterbalance to technology that isolates by using modern tools to foster genuine human connection.
Listen as these two men model the very bridge-building they discuss—approaching difficult topics with honesty, grace, and a shared belief that seeing the divine in everyone transforms how we move through the world.
Start with this Description
Gain fresh perspectives on connection, curiosity, and purpose. Subscribe for more stories that uplift and connect!
👋 Follow me for more podcasting tips and exclusive offers:
🔥 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbrianearnold
🚀 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brianearnold
📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@brianearnold1
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianearnold/
🐦 X: https://x.com/DrBearnold
📱 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@brianearnold1
📚 Books: www.brianearnold.com/books
#FaithAndRace #Testimony #Inspiration
Http://theposcastingchallenge.com
This is a really weird story but it is.
Speaker 1:It's like a real core part of who I am in terms of bridge building and cross-culturally and otherwise.
Speaker 1:I was in junior high, went to a school, big multi-level school, this big staircase, two like huge double staircase and I remember one day I walked up the first flight of stairs, which was probably like 20 something stairs, getting ready to go up the next flight. And as I put my foot right on that first step of that next flight, there was something that came over me that was like a realization of how beautiful human beings are across the board and that was straight from God, like it was not there two steps earlier, but it was there on that first step and I've had it since and it was like the best way I can describe it is like a gift of almost seeing human beings a little bit closer to the way God sees them. It's like man people unfortunately miss out on a lot of really cool relationships because there is some initial friction right out of the gate and then stuff kind of deteriorates from there and a lot of times I think it's just we just don't see each other as fully human as maybe God would want us to.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome, welcome, welcome to another edition. This is one of those really cool editions of Journey to Freedom, because Jason and I have had the opportunity to spend some time together over the last year and it's just been phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Just been phenomenal when we think about our journey to freedom and one of the things that you know you probably heard me talk about during this podcast and things that is dear to my heart and wanting to do, is when we were able to take a trip to Alabama and it was, you know, it's kind of coined as a civil rights tour, reconciliation and justice, really kind of understanding a little bit about our roots and where we came from. And it's a trip that I was able to go on my first time last year and then I repeated it again this year. Jason was able to go on it. This year we were able to take a group of Black men. There was 18 of us that were Black men that were there, and then there was another you know disbursement of whether they were women, or I think there was one black female that was there, and then you know several white men and women that were there as well. But it was a great integration, it was a great way to experience Alabama.
Speaker 2:And I don't know and Jason will get to talk about this in a little bit but I was so shocked when I went to Alabama and realized that I felt like I was back in 1970s. Well, I don't remember the 1970s. I was five or six years old in the 1970s. You were probably even younger, if you were even born in the 70s, not the 80s, but just to think of all the 70s, I'm talking about the 80s but just to think of all the things that you read about, that you learned about maybe in history or learned about from our parents or learned about from the community, and to go, truly experience it and feel like the atmosphere I was telling my wife Renee just yesterday when I went down there, I felt like my words. So I'm doing 100 words that everybody, every adult, should know, and my word yesterday was palpable and you know it's a word that you know is that thickness of emotion that you can almost reach out and touch, and that's what I got there. So we will talk about that today.
Speaker 2:But what I'm really excited about is Jason and all the wonderful things he's doing and how he's interacting with people and how he's helping people. And, like all of our guests, I've asked him to tell us his story, where you know, kind of, where he grew up and what he did and how his life has meant, and then we'll talk about maybe some obstacles or some things that maybe got in the way, and then where he's going next about maybe some obstacles or some things that maybe got in the way, and then where he's going next. Because what you're going to find is as I continue to do these shows and find black men who are successful. Successful doesn't necessarily mean the amount of money you have or the cars you drive or the material stuff. It's how you are impacting the community that you're in, and we got to see each other in church the other day and it was like man.
Speaker 2:This is the community that you're in, and we got to see each other in church the other day and it was just like man. This is the person that I want to continue to spend some time with. I want to continue to get to know, and I just see our lives intersecting with each other over and over again. And I can't say that about all of our guests. I can't say that there's some of the guests that I had that I probably won't interact with ever again.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's not because they weren't, you know, they're more fun to be with. Or, you know, there's a couple that just said some things that I'm like oh my gosh, how could you believe that way? Or how could you think that way? And I, you know, I don't fault them for it. I mean, we all grow up in our own experiences and learn, but there are people that you know are part of your pathway and where God has put us. You know, part of what I try to do is help people find you know why God put them on this earth and help them be able to, you know, encapsulate that and do that and have reasons for it, and so I can't wait to have this conversation with you. I'm going to let Jason take over and kind of just tell us your story a little bit about you and where you're from, and I can't wait to chop it up after that. So the floor is yours.
Speaker 1:Oh man, well, Dr Honor, I really appreciate the invite. This is like I was hearing about, I think, the first two or three podcasts about a year and a half ago and I was like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. I don't know many podcasters, maybe I can count them on one hand, and so you've been on this journey and 150 plus. So I'm super excited to even be part of that group. And yeah, man, I mean, I think our initial interactions were probably two years ago maybe, and I had heard about you like probably three or four years prior to. Everybody thought that I already know you. So they would just talk about oh, do you know brian? I'm brian. I'm like hold on, hold on who's brian? What brian are we talking about? And so finally, I got asked to connect with you at an issacar event, um, probably two years ago. And so, yeah, our, our, our satellites have been orbiting closer and closer and I'm looking forward to really getting to know you in the months and years to come here. So it's been great, man.
Speaker 2:So you mentioned in terms of like story, like backstory, as I've been doing this podcast and when I think about listeners and what listeners has told me, people want to know what you do. I mean, because we always talk about what do you do and what do you do. But I think what people really want to know, what helps develop trust and develop a character, is like who are you, you know, like what is it that is makes you tick, what makes you go. Can I relate to that? And especially when we're working and talking with you, know folks of color Black men who have kind of whether they've been marginalized or they just grew up in different situations, or you know people want to say, yeah, that's kind of my story too and yeah, I was able to do that, or you know somebody well or I didn't have any issues either.
Speaker 1:You know my mom and dad were great.
Speaker 2:You know we spent all our time, you know, because not everybody when we think about a lot of folks. We all think that we all came from. You know the single mom, family poverty and we had to scratch our way out of it and simply that's not true for all of us. You know, and so other people can relate, relate, and so I really just kind of want to know who. Who is jason tucker? Who is this? That's across from me right now yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I, I, um, grew up in a um, really loving family. Um, parents, fortunately, are still here. They're in. Their mom just reminded me the other day. She's like I'm not 80 yet, jason, I'm not 80 yet. Dad is early 80s, mom is I guess you'd let me not even put her out there like that. They're seniors and grew up in Minneapolis, apparently right up the street from where Prince grew up.
Speaker 1:I never knew, I never really tracked it down in terms of which direction that was, but right in the north side. So if you've been in Minneapolis, any major city has a kind of like stigma area. I guess in Minneapolis, north side would be that. But Northside represent, um, that's where I grew up and, yeah, um, grew up in a Christian household.
Speaker 1:A disproportionately disproportionate amount of my family are believers, uh, in Jesus and so, and followers of Jesus and like in a real kind of way, like, uh, like it shows up Monday through Saturday sort of way in addition to Sunday, so that really informed a lot of who I am and um, but growing up in Minnesota and a black family. We live in a black neighborhood but you know you go 10 minutes in any direction, you're going to be the only black person and so early on I just grew up learning some soft skills in terms of how to connect with other people that were very different than I am, and, and you know, those skills still, uh, are used today and um, yeah, it's, it's an interesting, interesting place because it's very nice. Like they talk about minnesota nice and it is um, um, but when you're kind of on an island like that, culturally speaking it is, it's a little, it's got some interesting dynamics to it.
Speaker 2:I didn't mean to just say that you live in Minnesota in a black neighborhood, and when we think about Minnesota we really don't think like there's like bi-black people in Minnesota I think of, like North Dakota South.
Speaker 1:Dakota.
Speaker 2:I think of like maybe Native Americans in those, but it's not like the black Mecca, where there's this black like Prince is the only person that I can think of, other than some athletes or stuff that were black that came from there. There had to be. Plus, it's cold. Most of the folks that I know don't want to be nowhere near the cold.
Speaker 1:It's very similar to Denver, which is where I'm at now, at now been out here for 20 years and it is very similar where the macro state, the, the population numbers, are almost the same in terms of there are. There is a black community here, there's a latino community here, um, but it's like a very specific area and obviously in the last 10, 15, I shouldn't say obviously, but that's changed in the last 15, 20 years. But yeah, there there is a community, but it's very small.
Speaker 2:So so you go to high school and yeah. Yeah, north, north High represent anything special happen in your high school years that were contributing factors?
Speaker 1:oh man man we had a lot of fun in high school. Probably too much, but I went to really it was a public school, but a really really strong public school, because they had a really big kind of media um tech, um, it was stem before stem and and then we had really strong um athletics. We, you know, won some titles basketball, basketball titles and I think recently won some football titles. But it was a real. It was like a, it was the school to go to and it happened to be like right at the street where I live. But yeah, we man, it was very formative and it was majority black school too. So it was probably I'm guessing I'm kind of throwing these numbers out so it was probably. I'm guessing I'm kind of throwing these numbers out it might've been 60%, maybe it was 40% black, maybe 50, yeah, probably 40% black, 30% white and 30% everyone else, and so those numbers might be a little off, but yeah, so it was a real man it was.
Speaker 1:At the time I wasn't a fan of high school but looking back, man, it was kind of nice a rap group for a couple of years there and did a whole bunch of, you know, much maligned freestyling in the locker rooms and the lunch rooms and all that stuff and played on a well, I shouldn't say I played on the football team. I practiced on the football team for freshman, freshman year, so that was fun, but it was yeah, it was. It was kind of typical, you know, in terms of, like my high school, where I was at in the hierarchy, what, what lunch table did you sit at, jason I, I was at the nerd table, the uh, hip-hop, boom bap, freestyle table. Um, that was kind of like where I, where I where, where I lived, and so, yeah, we're the far opposite end of where all the cute girls were hanging out.
Speaker 2:It was a great experience to just, you know, to be in a place you grew up in. You felt safe. You know I think that's where you know a lot of folks you know, especially in our culture, that that didn't feel safe, you know, and didn't have that diversity.
Speaker 2:You know like for me. I grew up here. You're familiar with Denver now, so I went to Cherry Creek High School and at the time the high school still had 3,500 students as many as they have now almost 4,000 students but there were only 30 of us of color in that school at the time, so my dad had been part of an affirmative action program so he moved out to the suburbs off of Arapahoe Road 925.
Speaker 2:Out there back when, like Arapahoe, was a two lane and all the roads that had to go away from them were dirt roads, and so that was in 1870 and so I grew up as not having an identity and figuring out like who I was and you know.
Speaker 2:So I'm thinking you're talking about the lunch table, where you're at the nerd table. Well, we had a couple of tables, but we had different buildings that were not just one lunchroom. We had three different buildings that have lunchrooms in it and, depending on your status, it would determine which even building. So there's one that's called Industrial Arts and that's where a lot of the black kids who were like musicians and artists type and that kind of stuff, hung out with, and that was most of the black kids. And then there was the, the main cafeteria where all the athletes were at, and then it was just the black athletes that got to hang out there okay and so I was literally confused.
Speaker 2:I didn't know. Like okay, on mondays and tuesdays I'll fit in this cafeteria. I was a track guy.
Speaker 1:Because you were a track guy, right.
Speaker 2:And so I was a good athlete, so they wanted me at their tables. They wanted me to go to their parties, but I couldn't bring all my other friends because they weren't as wanted, you know, at the jock table or whatever it is. They didn't want the band guys at the jock table or whatever it is, they didn't want the band guys at the jock table Got it, yeah.
Speaker 1:That was my clue. They were cool to me.
Speaker 2:When we think about those identities that we create for ourselves. And as you come out of it, you're doing, doing this and you're, you know, you're, you're, I don't know. You're feeling like, hey, I fit into this group and now you're going to go to college or start life afterwards. What was your identity? Like that you could do anything, or was it like I don't know where I fit in? What kind of yeah?
Speaker 1:You know some of the language you mentioned in terms of feeling safe, you know, I think a lot of it's interesting because there's a lot of a fine. There's almost a razor's edge between whatever safety means, because culturally, yes, physically not so much, you know, I mean like. So, like our school, it had a lot of beautiful things, like a lot of areas that are kind of under you know just financially just aren't that great.
Speaker 1:There's all this other stuff that comes with that. So, yeah, there was a lot of I wouldn't say a lot, but there was like, if you were to say what school would you physically feel the least safe at, it was probably my school. You know what I mean. So but when you're in it and you're, you know all the people, you kind of know how to traverse the area and kind of what to do, what not to, generally speaking, but even with any. It would catch you, even if you did know that stuff. So not so it was, and we had drive-bys and we had so, uh, but when I went to college it was like the opposite.
Speaker 1:So I went to a really great school, dunwoody institute of technology, and I want to say they had a couple thousand, maybe 1800, 2200 or so graduates per year, but they had, like man, probably like five to eight black people the whole school and maybe five others. Everybody else asian, latino, native. So you would see people down the hallway and be like yo, what's up, man, I see you, you know. I mean like. So the safety got inverted where it was. Definitely not there wasn't anything jumping off physically in there, but it was like there was a lot of just uh, you know it was conversations that were like were very eye-opening for me, coming from where I grew up and going in that environment where it's kind of like you could tell people felt like how'd you get in here? And they felt empowered and emboldened to pressure, test your ability to navigate and what you knew, what you didn't know. And you can tell, like I think you grew up in any minority globally probably has that skill where you know really quickly whether or not you're the first person like that that someone is dealing with. And in those environments you've got a high ratio of people, a lot of people that you could tell you're their first real encounter. And that goes for any kind of minority, like you could say socioeconomic, say someone who's maybe disabled, someone who maybe has an accent, whatever. Like you go down the list and if you are the other, you can quickly tell how many other people have interacted.
Speaker 1:So at college it's great school, really rigorous program. Really loved the time there. But it was like, yeah, it was, it was culturally really tough. But it was like, yeah, it was, it was culturally really tough. So I had a kind of a guidance counselor that kind of held me down, man, and he was part of a program that was, I believe, initiated by the school to help bring more minorities through, and so he was a brother too, and and I would go to his, his office down on the hall and just kind of decompress we weren't even talking about.
Speaker 1:We would talk about academics and we talk about class and homework and grades and all that, but it was the majority of our conversations were related to like how in the world am I trying to survive all this stuff and how did you do it? And you know, I mean like all the like trying to. Just, you know, and I grew up with a dad Again, my dad's still around, and like 90 something percent of who I am is him. Like I'm so much like him it's kind of scary, but he's like like I respect the heck out of him. He's one of the wisest people, if not the wisest, I've ever met.
Speaker 1:And so I grew up under him and so I had all of that going into that environment, but it was still like man, it was pushing everything to the limit and so you just you know, but anyway that was good training ground for the market and through all of that, still leaning on those earlier, those early childhood skills that develop in grade school, learn how to communicate with folks that just have not ever ran across or at least seemed like someone like you for any length of time, and build relationships with those people. So one of the things that I have, you know, I still remember I was in junior high, I was seventh grade. This is a really weird story but it is. It's like a real core part of who I am in terms of bridge building and cross-culturally and otherwise. I was in junior high, went to a school called Franklin and big like multi-level school, this big staircase, to like huge double staircase, and I remember one day I walked up the first flight of stairs, which was probably like 20 something stairs, getting ready to go up the next flight, and as I put my foot right on that first step of that next flight, there was something that and I was probably seventh grade.
Speaker 1:So what was I?
Speaker 1:11, 10 years old, something like that, 12, maybe there was something that came over me.
Speaker 1:That was like a realization of how beautiful human beings are across the board and that was straight from God, like it was not there two steps earlier, but it was there on that first step and I've had it since and it was like the best way I can describe it is like a gift of almost seeing human beings a little bit closer to the way God sees them, where there's just an inherent like I'm just fascinated and intrigued and appreciative for people, even if I don't agree with them. Appreciative for people even if I don't agree with them, even if they're, you know, and that's a gift, man Cause, it's like it's a gift that's been tested, you know, over the years, definitely, but, um, and that's just I've. I've carried that with me because it's it's like man. People unfortunately miss out on a lot of really cool relationships because there is some initial friction right out of the gate and then stuff kind of deteriorates from there and a lot of times I think it's just we just don't see each other as fully human as maybe God would want us to.
Speaker 2:That is good, because you were able to see that early and then I bet that changed the way that you looked at people and interacted with people, based on seeing them as this beautiful creature that God put together for a purpose and when you start thinking about that, that's huge if you see that person as that compared to. Is this my adversary? Is this somebody I can compete with? Is this somebody that I have to watch out for?
Speaker 1:Somebody I trust.
Speaker 2:But if you see them as God made them, then now I want to get to know them. I want to get to see who.
Speaker 1:what you intend, yes, yes, yes, what is their story? What? What's what's really cool about them and what's what are they struggling with? And what you know, are there things that I have that I can share with them? And there are things that they have that they can share with me. And when you think about this stage of life, most of us start off with that kind of wide-eyed view of other people. Like I remember we had all kind of like different types of people in grade school and I didn't see them as, they were just different people and that was. It was cool. But it's that junior high where that stuff starts to shed and you start to learn about these markers by which, in theory, we can kind of predict people's behavior and outcomes and how they're going to interact with us, and we start to get, you know, kind of like protective and for a lot of good reasons. But that got derailed by that moment for me and I was able to hold on to and then grow that still like childlike wonder around human beings in general.
Speaker 2:so so, yeah, you go to this college that you know you're, you're trying to figure out who you are and, you know, come up with an identity, I guess, for who you're going to be in the future. Uh, you graduate and somehow you end up here in Denver, colorado, instead of in Minnesota. What kind of transpired that one had you. You know, this is what I can do, this is what my life's going to be, and then to move across the way from family and everybody else. What went into all that? How did that transpire?
Speaker 1:Yeah, fire, fire in the belly, you know. So I I went to school for drafting and estimating and, you know, wanted to do all the frank lord wright designy stuff. You know, architectural wonderment and, um, that degree doesn't really facilitate that. It's like a very utilitarian. It's a fantastic degree because it was two year school. That's all I have in terms of my formal training, but it's more technical, it's more kind of brass tacks. Learn how to draw, which I love, learn how to draw a home, learn how to draw the details of a home, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:But I was not. That wasn't like enough and I was like man, I gotta push past it, I want to design stuff, and so I just kept pushing that and kept pushing that um, probably in too hard in some ways. Retrospect, um, in terms of, like inner office dynamics and all that. Um, yeah, just like a real, just fire man like I. I was talking to my sister a couple weeks ago but I feel like I've never, I've never had a normal weekend like. I've always done extra stuff vocationally on the weekends and then even at night. That just is kind of like. So I've always worked like at least a job and a half and so I was pushing a lot of that design stuff and ended up, um, doing some other kind of tech based things just when the internet was starting to really come online and there was some, um technical things that I was doing that got the attention of some of the home office, uh, folks who were two or three states over in Michigan and they ended up offering me the position to do kind of a regional thing with some of that tech stuff that I was doing at the, the, the place that I was working, and they offered me a position in Denver.
Speaker 1:And so I remember it was late, I think it was January 21st, 22nd, 71 degrees in Denver. We were down in the tech center, which is, for everybody who doesn't know Denver, it's kind of one of the tech hubs, southern metro of the city, and we were at this, you know, restaurant, lunch, whatever. They were kind of walking me through the city and I was there for like a week just checking it out Do you want to move here, jason, kind of stuff, and here's all the stuff and here's what the city has to offer. So we went to lunch and we were in the parking lot clear blue sky, again January 21st, 71 degrees, can see all the way to the mountains blue cap mountains or white cap mountains, and I didn't know anywhere in the nation was 70 anything in January, especially late January, from Minnesota, because I think it was like negative 20 something.
Speaker 1:When I left I was like, oh man, I think I might be able to rock it out here. So, yeah, coming out and it was great for a year. And then the housing market imploded and you know there's a bunch of layoffs and a bunch of, you know, destabilizing things.
Speaker 2:But that's what got me out to Denver when you, when I want to kind of you know, pivot a little bit to and then I want to jump into faith because you know I kind of started the show talking about you know our trip to Alabama and the thought process of you, know you're part of these groups. You're part of you know, now you're integrated into our society. You're Denver, you're Coloradoan or whatever we call ourselves. I was born here and don't even know what we call ourselves. Everybody's like. Are you native? Are you native?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I was born here, I was like oh.
Speaker 2:Okay, but then we go back into the South because we heard about the South. Maybe kind of just talk a little bit about your expectations before you went and then some of the things you may have learned that are so different from a Minnesota, or so different from a Colorado or anywhere else that you just go.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Maybe just kind of give us just a quick overview.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that trip was. That trip was a gut punch and a hug kind of at the same time, yeah, and so Scott, who's the executive director of Iztikar, you guys put that trip together. I was telling him leading up to it, I mean he literally had. He asked me like three different times so, jason, are you going to make it out there with? I was like, ah, you know, man, I was dragging my feet, man, because I was like my sister and I had another conversation about this a couple years ago. But we were like man, I can't watch another one of those 12 Years a Slave movies or any of that civil rights, any of that stuff. Man, I'm like I just my emotional.
Speaker 1:I think this hit after this is post-Floyd. I was just like man, I'm trying to do and then try to keep my spiritual stuff in some form of order, and then you turn on the news. I'm trying not to be unplugged from that. So I've watched the news, you know, little bits and pieces throughout the week and all of its fantastic stuff happening there. And so, man, I was like I, I already knew what the trip was going to be. I was like, yeah, this is just going to be a bunch of like dive back into yesteryear and a whole bunch of like heavy. I was just like I don't man, I don't, I don't have it, I don't have the reservoir. So, um, I'm glad that scott didn't listen and um, yeah, so the going in. I was like going in, I was like all right, well, let's, let's, let's do it, because I'm not like, if you go on the spectrum of like politically socially active would be like you know, uh, super, yeah, I mean I hate to throw out the term militant just willy-nilly, but let's just say that's a 10. Then you got zero, which is like I don't know what the heck's going on. Everything's great. I'm probably more like in a four to five range where I'm like it's hard to get me out on some capital steps. I'm not like, it's just my. There's different ways that I'm trying to move the needle for my family, for the folks from my village, culturally speaking, for the folks from my um, spiritual family, uh, for, uh, people in general, artists and stuff. There's different groups that I, you know, um, advocate for, and so, yeah, I'm just not like. I was like man, I don't know where my head is going to be going in and where it's going to be coming out and so I'm trying to. I'm trying to do stuff for just to hold myself together through all of this and I got a bunch of mentees and stuff that I want to be in a good spot for them, and then my family anyway. So going in, I was like that was where I was at. So going in I was like that was where I was at.
Speaker 1:The trip itself was amazing and super informative and, I think, big picture and then coming out, the relationships, you guys brought a huge contingent of brothers that were very. It was just, it was really good that you guys were there. I'll just say that you know what I mean me personally, that's just that's. You know um, just to be able to to again coming from my experience where I'm used to being the only one, only black, and that's been day one, that's colorado, that's minneapolis, that's right. So just to not be that through going, you know, learning about all that hard stuff was really helpful and it and it was a lot of the stuff that I had heard about, read about, saw movies about um, but it was so much more real when you're there on the grounds and you're walking through the cities that still just architecturally and in other ways still look and feel similar to some of that, some of those times, and so yeah, that was yeah, it was transformative and it was hard and you know I I used to always wonder why my dad moved to Minnesota.
Speaker 1:Because he's from the South and we got a bunch of family to Minnesota because he's from the South and we got a bunch of family Memphis and Arkansas and full of folk out in Texas and whatnot. So our crew is down there. That's like that's where the. You know, I used to visit, our family used to visit down there, like once every year or two, growing up so. But I was always like man, like when we would go down there, we would go to the mall and we go out where you see all these black people, you just be like yo man, they.
Speaker 1:And then why did dad move all the way to Minnesota? Like and this is the trip where I was like I get it, I'm not sure if that's why he moved, was because of all that, but for the first time I felt like I would have made that same call and I'm not sure I don't know what that says, but I get it, man. So I got a lot of still down there and they're still representing and rocking it out and doing the thing. But yeah, it was just really cool.
Speaker 2:Well, what I'm going to ask you is because I want to kind of talk a little bit about what does it mean to be a black man in America in 2025,?
Speaker 2:but somehow without that experience we might have had a totally different answer before. That you know. And then, without being able to kind of give some context to maybe some of the thought process, I know for me it has changed how I look at other folks of color, other black men, and think about what they may have gone through, because it wasn't my experience. I went to the white high school that had 30 black folks out of 3 000. I had my own struggles and my own people calling me names and all that kind of stuff, but not at the extent where I don't know if I ever believed it was like in death. You know they might have, you know they might have called end, might have done stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But then I think I'll tell those folks that I could have crossed the line or I could have crossed the street and my life would have ended, or you know, in those circumstances or just the amount of hate or stuff that was there. I don't know if I felt that growing up. And then I think how does that translate now to where I'm at now and what I've been able to do and the education that I've been able to get, and how has that affected me? And I'm now talking to some of the folks who were in these situations whether it's the South or whether a small real poor community in new york or something changes my perspective a little bit and so yeah, and how do you balance, like, the information overload of it all with the?
Speaker 1:okay, now I'm uh doing whatever, the next call, the next meeting, whatever, with a bunch of people that had nothing to do with that. But there's like this tension between, um, the things that the, the, the ripple effects of all of that stuff that still show up today and you're heightened in your awareness of it and other people may not be other, maybe people may not even acknowledge it, because it kind of feeds into the next part that I want to talk to you about it with is because I see, when my faith now kicks in and my you know the circle where I'm at I see the need more at.
Speaker 2:I see the need more of the need for grace, I see more of the need for the understanding, I see more of the need for patience than I have before. I don't see the, especially with folks now who have had ancestors or had people that came before them that taught them things you know about us or about different people or about different cultures, through not understanding right, just because they were just their father told them and their father told them. And that's how they have to act, but never have to actually face it themselves. You know, I think of the school that you went to, where it was the first time many of them were interacting, school that you went to where it was the first time many of them were interacting. Then I think of our, our tour guide, tour guide's dad, who said I grew up 20 miles from here and didn't see any black folks, you know, for I don't know how many years, and the city's 85 percent black.
Speaker 1:so how did that?
Speaker 2:segregated for them yeah, so the grace that I think comes from. That helps me now with my interaction in my relationships and when I when I whether I'm talking to somebody who's white, who just hasn't had any exposure, or I'm talking to a black man who's super angry because of yep, some of it is- real and how he was treated.
Speaker 2:And you know I think about you know now I listen to my mom and my dad tell me stories of drinking out of colored drinking fountains and you know my uncle getting beaten just because he was drove around off the wrong you know side of the county or something like that. You don't want to go. Okay, none of that should have happened, none of that. But at the same time, the folks that are alive now aren't the ones who did it. We just have to make sure they don't perpetuate it. Right, and so that thought process then gets to how do I now help understanding? How do I help them to feel, or not even feel? But when they ask questions, I don't get mad at them for asking the questions because I truly, like I do not know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you didn't grow in my house yeah, and I, man, I'd love to do a dive on uh, which you just mentioned in terms of the feel part, what I alluded to earlier. There there's a conversation, a legitimate one, in the black community Well, I think it's in a number of communities, but it's kind of like, at what point do I have to stop worrying about how people feel? And so what I was alluding to earlier in terms of the soft skills, do you grow up? Learning? Is you learn how to make other people at least I did less on edge because of whatever their perceptions are around you as a person and all the things you bring to the table as a person? And in this case, some of those things are your cultural background and so it.
Speaker 1:There's a lot, of a lot of black folk that are kind of at a point where they're like look, man, I don't care how comfortable or uncomfortable, that's a you problem if blah, blah, blah, you. And I haven't settled on that myself. I'm curious on, like from a faith standpoint, when I'm thinking about Paul saying you know, I became all things for all people, so that and it wasn't so that they would be nice to me, but so that they would let me not misquote this but mainly so that there would be inroads, or at least a bridge to be able to share the life transformative stuff of Jesus with other people. And so how do you balance that all that olive branching with? Sometimes you're not always like poker, waving those olive branches away and saying, look, you know, I'm not trying to see things your way and I don't care whatever you're talking about. And yeah, like, how do you one of the things that a pastor told me.
Speaker 2:A really good friend pastor of mine told me that hurting people hurt people. Hurting people hurt people, and so I always, when somebody's lashing out or saying some things that are just off, first I went are they hurting? And if I can get to the bottom, why they're hurting, we may be able to come together through relationship. But then I get to people who are just it doesn't matter what race they are, or what color they're from.
Speaker 2:they're just bad people, they're evil people and I don't have a lot of tolerance for that. I don't have a lot of hey. I've reached out, I've tried to have a conversation and you are just. I'll just say you're just stupid.
Speaker 2:And so then now that conversation is no longer that relationship, and maybe that's just on me where I'm not reaching out anymore, I'm not trying to resolve it, because there's this genuine you don't care, You're going to do what you're going to do. And then you might even try to take advantage of me and my kindness and my niceness, and so that's where you know I can reconcile with, with God or whoever, and say look, you know God, I reached out. I know you said do a 70 times 70, but I get like 70 times divided by 7.
Speaker 1:I'm not there yet, right.
Speaker 2:Because it is hard, it is, it's that balance where you go. Okay, you know this is where and I am aware of all the things that happen, are you Like? This weekend I was at the state track meeting and I was talking to a history person that gives the history and he's teaching junior high kids.
Speaker 2:You know he's going on and on about our founders and that kind of stuff. And I said, well, you know, because we learned. You know about what Dr Mack had told us about George Washington. And they say so what kind of history do you give about George Washington's teeth? Oh, that they were wooden and he had it. And I said, well, no, he took them out of a slave's mouth and he put them in his mouth. And so are you even looking at other ways of sharing history? Is history only from the person who conquered? Is that the only perspective we get to see? Or we get to know? And if that's the case, then it's really hard to have. You know, get into a relationship you know that you and I can be in. If all you can see is what you've been taught, all you can see is what and that's not just taught from school.
Speaker 2:It's taught from your parents, it's taught from your community, it's taught from wherever.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's like a curiosity quotient that it's needed, where, if you're the expert coming and going on everything, it's tough, man, it's tough. And I think that slice can be majority culture, that can be minorities, that can be different socioeconomic, that can be spiritual conversations of different groups, but it's like I think the frustration that a lot of people myself have included is like man, like we, we can't. So in some ways I'm part of groups that are like that, like if I feel like guys tend to be like that, I feel like Christians in general in the West tend to be like that, we're just the experts, we show up, boom, we got it. And unfortunately there's a lot of um, my majority, uh, experts, culturally speaking, um, that just live that as well, and so in certain ways I'm on the side where I'm like, oh man, I need to do a better job of not doing that. And other times I'm seeing it done and I'm like, yeah, they need to do a better job of not doing that, because it's like everyone knows this. Mathematically, you talk about 10 000 hours, and time is one of the main objective.
Speaker 1:Things that you can say relate to a person's ability to speak into something with some sort of authority and some sort of insight that should be listened to, right, but, like my college experience and a lot of our experience, you have people that are experts on you, that are just meeting their first black person such an expert and so it's just, we got to show grace but also remind folks that, like man, you got to be a little more curious about what's really going on that might be outside or might be in a blind spot or might be outside of what you've seen up to this point and I and then, like I think as a believer, as a Christian, we're majority in this country and we care ourselves sometime that way, and just like plow through a whole bunch of stuff and not asking any questions, oh yeah, everybody gets understood, blah, blah, blah, blah, and and we're not as curious as we should be, and and we're not as curious as we should be, and so, man, I just feel like there's just a lot of curiosity that is needed, that a little bit more listening, a little more asking questions like legit, like real, like I really want to know, and just sit back and letting it wash over would do.
Speaker 2:I try to show up in conversations, and I heard this from Myron saying it. At one time he said every conversation I'm in, I'm 100% right. I'm 100% right that there's a 50% chance I don't know what I'm talking about that I do. I'm 100% right about that. But if I'm right and we can go through this conversation and show that I'm right and my belief systems are well enough that I'm going to defend them, then I want to continue to say okay, this is why I'm right. But on the other side of it, if I'm wrong, I want to be able to do this stuff to correct that. And I think that's where we lack is, we don't want to correct it, because that means that we've been wrong for a long time.
Speaker 1:We've been wrong for however long, and that goes back to that beauty of like. People are fascinating and amazing creatures and they are made by God and they've been bopping around earth, earth, learning and accumulating knowledge and wisdom. Um, and it's so cool to learn from other people like you, literally are getting, like, uh, old school nintendo, uh, those books that you used to get to get the code, the cheat code, where you get extra life, you get extra board, you get, I mean, anytime you're interacting with another person, that's an opportunity to learn stuff you would never in your own shoes be able to learn. And it's just so cool because God is blessing everybody with various different things that they can share with the collective, various different things that they can share with the collective. And if we're just kind of outright saying, man, I already know about your folk, there's nothing really here for you to teach me, then, like that's, we're losing out.
Speaker 2:The older I get, the more that I know. I don't know a whole lot, but the fear comes in is when I interact with you. If I have this fear that somehow, if you learn or get what I have, then it's going to take away from me having it. And it's this whole thing of lack you spend so much time, whether it's subconscious or consciously going.
Speaker 2:if I share with you, if I give to you, and then all of a sudden, now you get what I have, that means you're taking it away from me, instead of thinking that is a cloud of abundance and there's a cloud of it and I look at our division in our country right now and I say, okay, we've got to take all this stuff away, because these folks are getting to the point where if they get all of our jobs which will never happen but if they take our culture, if they take all of this from us, that means we don't have it anymore, and so I'm nice to that person. I try to understand that person. I'm giving away something I may never get back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, acknowledge that we are the wealthiest and the most powerful nation, arguably that's ever been, and possibly that is right now, while we also can still be afraid that we don't have enough, and humans have figured out how to survive and thrive on a lot less than we have. So there is a and, particularly if you're you know, if you hold that, while also being a believer and follower of Jesus. When Jesus is like don't worry about the birds of the air, I got them. You know what I mean. Don't worry about what clothes you're gonna wear, I got you like our. It's like we are. We're really believing in ourselves more than we're believing in god when we're thinking there's not enough to go around I want to.
Speaker 2:Just we'll just pick a little bit more right now, just because I want to get to and this has been an amazing opportunity we're going to do this again at some point.
Speaker 2:I want to kind of give the opportunity for you to kind of really talk about you and what you're doing and what makes you excited about life. And you know I can see that you're very thoughtful and that you're thinking about how do I interact in this world. But what are some of the things that you know? We got to, you know college, and then you moved to Colorado and you want to do architecture and you got this faith and like, what is it that Jason's doing now that it is makes life even more exciting?
Speaker 1:Man, I'll tell you, I feel like I'm in the groove and have been for several years right where God wants me to be. I can't tell the future, but I feel like this is the. So I've always been kind of a creative, artsy person which goes into architecture stuff. And so, coming out of the housing market implosion, when I moved out of architecture, I ended up getting into graph design and started to launch my own company, jht Design Studios, 15 plus years ago, and really have a love for creating artistic things, a love for people, a love for God, a love for connecting people in a way that is honoring to God. And so I ended up doing and still am, with my main company, jhd Design Studios, a lot of branding and identity websites that are all about the story of my clients and their story is really about the story of my clients and their story is really about the story of their clients. And so helping them tell that story through design is what I do, and that keeps the lights on storytelling from a service basement standpoint.
Speaker 1:And then, several years ago, I launched a storytelling company as a product based, and so that is scratching another artistic itch of mine, and so we're still ramping that up and it's the company is called group lore and we use imaginative storytelling to spark fun faith conversations for young people, specifically like middle grade age students and a little bit older, and so at that age where they're starting to really form a lot of their big picture identity around some of the questions that they're asking and like getting answers, gathering answers it's that coming of age stuff, joseph campbell, all of that.
Speaker 1:So, and I love it, man, because what we're trying to do is facilitate conversation, which I think is something that universally could be acknowledged as a need and maybe a muscle that's kind of atrophied in a lot of ways in society. And I'll say I'll raise my hand as a Christian, like, I think we do conversation poorly and I think we've in the last probably five or 10 years cliff fault, we were already bad at it, but I think we've. I mean, it's just, and so what we're trying to do is bring healthy conversation back and specifically around faith exploration, and so we're using these fun science fiction stories to do that and it's just, it's like all the stuff that God has made me to do, stuff that I have some aptitude for, but stuff that I'm just really passionate about as well, and all mixed together and we're doing some really fun stuff.
Speaker 2:You're making an impact in a way that a lot of other people aren't, when everybody's you know one in one direction. You're finding ways to get into a relationship. You're finding ways to help people. I think we start gravitating towards all this technology, whether it's AI now or whatever it is, and you're utilizing the technology to bring us back together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we want to have. I mean haven't dived dove into the. We've talked some some ai stuff. I think you're further down the uh, the approval train that I am on that I I have some very strong views on ai from a cautionary tale standpoint.
Speaker 1:But in terms of technology in general, yeah, we're, we're embracing it because that's where young people are and we're taking the approach where what did Jesus do when he and his disciples were doing their thing First century?
Speaker 1:They were going to where people were, not where they wanted them to be, and then they were forming relationships and having conversations, conversations and asking questions and eating and hanging out and sharing some insights on occasion.
Speaker 1:And that's what we're trying to do. So we want to use the technology because that's where young people are, and then what we're doing is taking this story, that's leveraging that technology and then bouncing them back off of the devices which all of us are addicted to and they're no different into real relationships. And so at the end of each of these episodes, these stories that group lore creates, you have kind of like a series of trivia questions where you're able to actually ask story-based questions about faith and about life and about philosophy and about your own personal story just off of the story you just read, and so this is again in a science fiction and it's fun, adventure stuff. But we're able to bounce off of that back into the who are the people in your life, and so we want to facilitate small group conversations and family table conversations and mentor mentee conversations off of something that's fun and adventure, uh, venturing, you know, uh, but then allow real stuff to happen off of that in real life, off the device.
Speaker 2:So that's, that's how so many really incredible things that we've just been able to, that's how we're doing so many really incredible things that we've just been able to dive into and we're kind of at time. What didn't we talk about that you want to make sure that you shared with the folks that are going to watch this episode. My goal, or my dream, would be that you and I get to have some more conversations where we really get to get into the philosophical portions of it and why things happen, how we can help others and, uh, at some point, I believe you could be an incredible uh, you know podcast host where you're bringing people in and having these conversations. Not that that's one more thing to add to your plate, but you, yeah, you turn this conversation.
Speaker 1:Oh good, you turned this conversation. It's on.
Speaker 2:Because you're asking me questions. It's about that attention, that you got that heart for knowledge and curiosity. So this conversation, for those of you who are watching, is far from being over, and it's far from being over where you get to be a part of it. But at the same time, what did we not talk about that you want to make sure During this episode? Is there a way to find?
Speaker 2:out about group lore. Is there a way to you know, find out other stuff you're doing, because I want you to make sure that yeah, people do want to they can.
Speaker 1:They can communicate with you yeah, I would love for, if, if, if anyone out there listening that has a young person in their life again, like middle school or even early high school or maybe even a little older, but basically are into fiction and imaginative storytelling and wants to have a faith conversation and finds it really hard and really difficult difficult, given all of the complexity that we're all juggling. I would love for them to drop by grouplorecom and take a look at what we're doing over there, because we're making this for parents, mentors, christian educators and just young people and young people at heart in general that want to explore some of the deepest questions that we have in life about what is going on in all of this brokenness in our world and is there hope through all of that? But also really love adventure and story and cool sci-fi, uh, uh, epic stuff. So, yeah, that's what we're trying to do over there and we'd love to check it out.
Speaker 2:Um you know the website to go to. Please check it out. I just this has been an amazing conversation. I can't wait to have more with you offline and online. Uh, and begin to unpack our, our purposes here why we're here and why God put us on this planet.
Speaker 2:I think this is just such a good spot for us to be able just to have these conversations and talk, because the more of these conversations that can be had, the more of these conversations that we can begin to talk about relationship and why God put us here, the better we are as a society. And so I love the example that you gave. I love the things that you're doing for the community and I just can't wait to talk to you again. So, for those of you who have not subscribed to this yet, go ahead and subscribe. Hit the notification button, hit those Some really good folks that we get to talk to on a weekly basis that we're putting out a couple times a week. We're putting out these episodes that people can be a part of and interact. So, any closing thoughts, I'll give you the last word and then we'll be out for this episode.
Speaker 1:No man Blessings, God's not. He's not surprised by any stuff going on. So move forward, plow forward, all right. So move forward, plow forward, all right.
Speaker 2:So don't forget to God's greatest gift he loves you to allow him to, and we can't wait to talk to you on the next one. Have a great, wonderful day.