Episode 6: The ultimate DIY PR guide for small-business owners

This episode is your no nonsense essential PR 101 guide. We're going to demystify how PR works for businesses like yours and explain why it can be a powerful investment of both your time and your money. Mia is joined by Kate Engler, director at Meet the Press Masterclass and Jacky Magid, co-owner of Charlie's Fine Foods.

Transcript

Mia:

These days, small businesses aren't just selling products or services. They're also battling for a share of customers' attention. But how do you gain that attention when people are being bombarded with information all the time? How do you stand out in an overcrowded media landscape to earn genuine trust and ultimately to earn business? Getting a message out there in 2025 requires smart strategies. While advertising and social media certainly have their place still, there's another powerful and I think often overlooked tool that can elevate your brand and really build that deep seated trust and that's public relations.

This episode will be your no nonsense essential PR 101 guide. We're going to demystify how PR works for businesses like yours and explain why it can be a powerful investment of both your time and your money. Joining us today is small business PR expert, Kate Engler, who has helped hundreds of small business owners land media coverage in top outlets by teaching them how to craft and pitch their own stories effectively. Kate, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks for joining us.

Kate:

Oh look, it's an absolute treat, Mia. We have a long and very warm relationship with Inside Small Business, quite a lot of love there in our relationship. So it's an absolute treat to be invited. So thanks for having me.

Mia:

So Kate, you've taught so many small business owners about PR and how they can use it to build their reputation. I would love to know some of the most common misconceptions that small business owners tend to have when it comes to PR, especially when they're coming into it for the first time.

Kate:

Yeah, really great question, Mia. And I guess the best way to describe it is there are really two sides to the media coin. There's the paid side, and you mentioned that in your introduction, advertising. Most small businesses know about that, and they've probably done it in a variety of forms. But then there's another side of the media coin, which is unpaid media or earned media. And most, many small to medium businesses don't really know that that site exists. They see people on TV or in magazines and think, well, how much did they pay the journalist for that? And of course, that's just not how it works, as you and I both know. 

But many people don't know that. They genuinely think that there's either some secret handshake deal or they have to pay the journalist money or if PR and publicity is on their radar and they do realise that such a beast exists, they think the only way to generate that for themselves is via a PR agency because that's very much the traditional method that businesses have used in the past to generate media coverage is via an agency. And then when small to medium businesses explore a potential relationship with agencies, they realise that it's going to be four, six, eight thousand dollars month after month after month after month and they just can't afford it. So then, sadly, business owners just put a big fat red line through publicity and media and think, we're obviously not big enough for the journalists. 

So there's quite a lot of misconceptions about the whole earned media, free media side of the coin that many businesses just are completely unaware of. And that is a tragedy.

Mia:

And we're going to be talking about the distinction between, you know, whether you should use an agency or DIYing later on in the episode and also how you can DIY. But first, I wanted to focus on the timing of PR. I think a lot of listeners would like to know when it's a good time to invest in PR. Like, do you need to be at a certain stage of your business journey or, you know, do you need to have some kind of huge announcement to make for PR to be worth it?

Kate:

Yeah, I think that's a $64,000 question really. We have a lot of authors that approach us for our Meet the Press Masterclass. And even though their publicity isn't going to be about their book, because it's got to be about the issue that sits inside the book, if I say to them, when is your book due out? They'll say, oh, not for 18 months. And if they don't already have a business that sits behind the book, they're kind of speaking into a vacuum and it's too far out for the journalists to be interested. Similarly, if there's a business owner who maybe is working three days a week at the post office and did a six-week crystal healing course online and has now opened a wellness center in her spare room, when she first opens it, that's probably not a great time to do publicity. 

Because one of the things that many journalists will want to know is, okay, so what impact has your product or service had, they will want to know who's been impacted, affected, improved, whatever it is by your product or service. And so you at least need some groundswell of users and runs on the board, predominantly if you are going to engage in publicity. Now, that's not to say that if you are, and this happened with one of our masterclass graduates, he started his business, then he did a cap raise and then he had Tim Draper, the founder of PayPal, invest in his company. So even though he was still very much in green fields, the fact that Tim Draper had invested in Lord of the Trees, his company, was a massive announcement. So there's no real one size fits all. It does depend on the rhythm of the business, what your background is. You know, if you've started built, sold, started, built, sold, started, built, sold, and you're starting another one, your fourth or fifth business, even at the beginning stages, that's a perfect time to engage in publicity because you yourself have got the track record of build, sell, build, sell, build, sell. 

So, so your new startup really isn't a startup. It's just another incantation of your skills and your expertise. So each business is unique in terms of the best time for them to engage with the media.

Mia:

There were some great examples there, which I hope will make it easier for people to kind of envision this and how it can fit into their personal story. Moving on to now what we're talking about just before about DIYing PR. Obviously you've made a career out of teaching small business owners to do their own PR and tell their own story rather than engaging an agency. What makes DIY a better option in your opinion?

Kate:

Yeah, look, there's so many things. Firstly, budget, know, small to medium businesses, every dollar is important. You work really hard for the money that comes into your business. You want that money to work hard for you as well. So the idea of paying four, six, eight thousand dollars month after month after month for an agency, lots of businesses kind of go, we're paying the agency. We really need to do something this month. And they can kind of there's a whole lot of nervous energy, I suppose, that gets expended. 

Sometimes not with great stories or with great pictures, but because they're paying the money, they feel like have to do it to make the most of their dollar. So that's one of the downsides of outsourcing. The upside of DIYing is you're in the driver's seat, right? Again, we've all got rhythms in our business of the ebb and the flow. And then if you're super busy, or you're going away to Europe for a vacay, just don't do any PR while you're away. You're not wasting money. You're not wasting time. You're not burning journal contacts because you're not available to maximise the media coverage. You're not available potentially for an interview. And if that interview then results in your phone melting down, as has happened with some of our masterclass graduates, you're not available to maximise those new leads. So by being in the driver's seat yourself and DIY-ing your PR, you can set the tone, the rhythm, the pace and the timing.

And that empowerment for business owners is so incredibly, well, it's powerful, pardon the pun of both two power words there, but it really does give the business owner the media magic lamp and they can rub it when they choose to and put it on the shelf when they're busy.

Mia:

Because they're really forging those direct relationships rather than relying on somebody else's relationships. Yep, that makes a lot of sense.

Kate:

For sure. And journalists say to us, Mia, just to your point of forging those relationships yourself, journalists always say at our masterclass, nobody can tell your story like you. And there are so many things in the background of small businesses. There's little golden nuggets that are hiding in their businesses.

That once they view them with a media lens, there's one, there's one, there's one, there's one. And nobody knows those intricacies of a person's business better than the business owner themselves. So that allows them to go forward and forge direct relationships with the media rather than going through a third person. Because if you stop using the third person, the relationship also stops. 

Mia:

And I know from personal experience that some of our best stories have come out of conversations that I've had one-on-one with business owners and have sort of mentioned things about the way they operate that maybe they didn't even know could be a story, right? Like they just thought that was so boring. Why would anyone want to hear about that?

But you know, in my mind, that's gold. If you're doing PR yourself, you know, what kind of outcomes can you expect? Like what have you seen small business owners achieve?

Kate:

Well, to your point about, you know, a story that the business owner themselves didn't think was valuable. There's beautiful Renee and she and her husband Roy have worked together for 30 years and they run Cape York motorcycle tours. And I said to her that, which was at the masterclass, she'd done it like a tourism pitch for most journalists. But I said when she got to Inside Small Business and Smart Company that I wanted her to pitch how she and Roy have worked together for 30 years without killing each other because sometimes when husbands and wives work together, it doesn't go so well. And she's like, no, that's not a story. And I said, trust me, it is. She pitched that. 

That story ran and it generated $56,000 worth of revenue in a story that didn't really focus on the business. So there's a variety of outcomes, you know, we have had cancer patients who are now cancer advocates go on and have joint ventures with major hospitals because of their publicity. We had a woman last month in Women's Weekly, she had a triple page spread in Women's Weekly and now she's been approached by Endermol Shine, the production company, to do a TV program on her work in the scam busting arena. We've had finance experts on Sky News and between walking from the studio at Sky News to his car in the car park at Sky News, there were 200 new leads in his inbox ready for him to follow up.

We've had a skincare specialist sell over $200,000 worth of skincare after she appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald in The Age. And on and on and on it goes. Quite apart from making the cash register ring, which is really important for small businesses bottom line, what publicity delivers for small to medium businesses is an elevation of their standing in their market and in their niche.

Because consumers looking at business owners in the media, any form of media, radio, print, online, TV, kind of think, they must be really great. If the journalist is interviewing them, they must be the expert. So the credibility elevation that publicity can give is kind of immeasurable. It's massive.

Mia:

When it comes to PR for businesses, what are you seeing working right now? Like what is getting people published?

Kate:

Lots of news-jacking. We really are in a 24-7 news cycle now. Gone are the days when the printed newspaper hit the streets at 4am in the morning and you didn't get another hit of news till 4am the next morning. Gone. Those days are gone, gone, gone. So we genuinely are in a 24-7 news cycle. We're also in a global news cycle. And news jacking, which is where you take an issue that's already in the media and pop your opinion on top of it and right off into the sunset. There are so many news-jacking opportunities at the moment. You know, earlier this year when the coalition government had their mini break, they kind of broke up. You know, that was a perfect opportunity for anyone in the relationship space to talk about things to do and don't in a breakup. The whole Trump-Musk disaster.

Again, not only is that a great news-jack for relationship people, but it's also a great news-jack for business strategists. Because when you have a business partnership or a joint venture or an alliance with someone, you need to make sure who you're getting into bed with, you know, proverbially. Because if your values don't align, then, you know, you can see the result of it. So that was a really great opportunity for business strategists to news-jack that.

We have a fertility specialist who's been to three, I think, of the Meet the Press Masterclasses and she's become the voice that the journalists go to because they know that she's been well-trained, they know that she can put a sentence together and she's got very clear opinions. So she's able to news-jack any of the very devastating IVF whoopsies that have happened. And I say whoopsies not lightly, but they are devastating and they weigh really heavily on Lucy's heart when she speaks about them. We've also got a former detective who anytime there's any crime, particularly in Sydney, he will news-jack that. And because he's a former detective, he has a little bit more freedom about what he can say because he's no longer wearing the badge. So what's really working now is news jacking.

Mia:

And for those business owners who might be listening who you know just want someone to talk about their products or something is that still a viable way to get into the news or you know how might you do that?

Kate:

The great Monty Python irony of media coverage is even though the journalists know that you will get the credibility and the kudos and the customers that inevitably follow media coverage, the secret is it's not their job to promote your business.

So when people get really in love with their thing, whatever their thing is, they just love it and they should love it. Business owners should, you should love your business. But your business is very much the caboose of the pitch. And what I mean by that, the issue that your business solves is the big engine room of the pitch. And then your business just tags along at the end. So for business owners thinking, I want the journalist to talk about my new course or my new product or what we really need to flip that and view what's happening through a lens of news they can use. And by they, we mean both the journalist and their audience, whether they're readers, listeners or viewers. What can the viewers or readers take away? What advice can they take away? What can they apply the next day or the next week from a journalist interviewing you? So there is a bit of shift in thinking that needs to happen. And even though your product or service gets the halo effect, that's not your lead punch.

Mia:

Okay, all right, so let's say that you can see kind of a way into the news cycle, right? You've got yourself a bit of an angle. What's next? Where do you even start if you want to get yourself published?

Kate:

Yeah, so the first thing is to consume the media that you want to target. If you want to target Today Show or Sunrise, please understand what they cover. Understand that when they interview experts, they will cut to a screen grab that are five tips for or five ways to, five ways to reduce your mortgage, five ways to get your kids to eat more vegetables, five ways to get over a broken heart, five ways to cut down on your power bill. They will always cut to that graphic.

So the first step is understanding the media that you wish to target. Please don't go in cold. Always consume the media you want to target. Then within the media, identify who it is you want to target. This is probably more relevant for print media because there's a vast array of people in major daily publications and they all have a different focus, a different topic or what we call a different round.

So it's really important that you target the right person within the media outlet and you can usually find their details online because if you've consumed the media, you know that Bill Smith writes about technology or you know that Gladys Jones writes about childcare. You're not just kind of throwing off a pitch into the void in what we call a spray and pray approach and just crossing your fingers and hope that someone picks it up. So the first step, once you've got your angle, you've got your idea, you've got your pitch is to think about which is the best fit for media. I remember speaking with one of the big editors at BRW and it was still running, the one that actually dubbed me the PR Antichrist. So he would always get pictures about organic baby onesies. And he's like, which part of Business Review Weekly did you not understand? We are not a children's magazine. We're not Kidspot. 

So when you don't do the research and you don't understand which media is the best target for you. There's a bit of a mismatch. This does not go with that at Suzanne's. So that's the really key next tip.

Mia:

And so once you've identified that person who, you know, could be a good match at whatever outlets you're targeting, how do you then get them to run your story? Because I'm assuming you have to pitch to them.

Kate:

So one of the mistakes that we see is if it's print particularly, people think they need to submit the finished piece and nothing could be further from the truth. We don't want to give the journalist the whole forest. We want to give them a little twig, a taste of what the pitch and story could be about. So it needs to be a strong newsworthy pitch with what we call an un-walk-past-able headline, it's a made up word. It just means that when the journalist reads your headline, they're like, and they can't walk past it and they energetically lean in and then they read more of your pitch. And mechanically, the way to get that to them is with a personalised email. Hi, Barry. Hi, Gladys. Hi, Felicity. Hi, Mia.

If it's a personalised pitch, the journalists are always, always, always in our experience, to take more notice of it because they realise it's just been sent to them. It's not some group pitch that's gone out into the ether with people praying that someone picks it up. So that's the first thing, personalised individual emails. Yes, it takes a bit more time, but the results are massively different if you do that. The second thing is to paste the media release and a media release needs to be one page, one idea, one release, one page, one pitch, that's our mantra. One idea, one central big idea, one release, one media release, one page, as in keep it to one page, one pitch. Paste that into the body of the email and also attach it as a Word document, because Word documents are much easier to manipulate and copy paste with the formatting still in place than a PDF. 

The benefit of pasting the media release into the email is it prevents you from going: hi Mia, please find attached the media release blah blah blah and you’re kind of retelling the media release not as concisely as you have in the media release document so if you paste the media release into the email the headline will hit the journalist right off the bat and you can just have a one sentence: hi Mia, thought your small business readers might be interested in the new legislation about X. And suddenly Mia, you as someone who caters for the small business marketplace, goes oh, I didn't know about that new legislation, let me read on. And the headline then hits you in the eye, which then entices you to read further down the page. 

Mia:

And while you're doing PR on your own, what sort of mistakes do business owners commonly make when they're approaching these publications?

Kate:

Yeah, great question. And we've got 12 rookie mistakes that cover all of these. Firstly, and this is probably the most common mistake that we see, when business owners are doing DIY publicity, they write the media release as if they're speaking to their customer. They've got their customer in their brain and they'll often say, you know, for a free trial or for a free quote. No, your customer will never ever see the media release.

So a media release has an audience of one and that is the journalist. It is not the customer. So that's quite a shift in thinking that business owners need to undertake. That's the most common mistake. The second most common mistake we see is they try and write the finished product, which I've covered before. That's not the way to go.

The third thing is that business owners think, if I tell them about my new product and my new expansion and my new staff member and my new this and that and our charity work, they'll find something in there that they like. And that gets back to our mantra of one idea, one release, one page, one pitch, one central theme.

The other mistake that can sometimes work in your favor depending on the announcement, the theme of the pitch, is that businesses do blind copy 25 journalists and they just hope that someone will pick it up. And as I said before, personalising and tailoring the pitch so that when you pitch to TalkBack Radio, you say in your pitch, I'm happy to take questions from your listeners.

So the producer of the radio program goes, he obviously knows how the game is played. Or if you're pitching to Today Show or Sunrise, you say, I've got five top tips of how to, you know, what not to do in a breakup, for example, going back to the example you used before. So that the Today Show producer goes, they obviously understand the program because they're going to put those five top tips up. In a magazine, you might say, I've got two clients who have experience being scammed by romance hackers and they're happy to talk to you Gladys 54 bop bop bop Felicity 37 bop bop bop and so when the journalist gets that they know that you've framed it up in a way that lands with their publication.

Mia:

 So let's get a little bit ahead and say you've got some really great PR. You know, you've got your business featured on some sort of top publication. You're on the ABC. You've made a positive impression. How can you make the most of your moment in the sun?

Kate:

Leverage, baby leverage. You know, lots of people think that just getting the publicity is the key thing and it's, it's, it is a key thing. But then we want to leverage, baby leverage. So we want to put it on your socials. We want to put it in your newsletter that you might send out to your clients. We want an as seen in section on your website. That's what we call above the fold.

That's a really old fashioned media term, Mia, that you're familiar with, but our listeners might not be, is with the big broadsheet papers that used to be folded in half, anything that was the most important thing was always above the fold. So in a digital sense, what we mean by above the fold is the thing that they see on that first opening scene of your website. We want to see those media logos. Because if someone's trying to decide if they're going to come, to Barry for financial advice or Gladys for financial advice and they go to Barry's website and it's a good website and he's done a really good job and he's explained his services and they go to Gladys' website and she's done a pretty good job and she's explained her services and know who she's but then she's got as seen on or as featured in Today Show, Sunrise, Inside Small Business, Mamma Mia. Suddenly there's no comparison about which financial advisor the consumer is going to choose.

So leveraging it is so, so, important. If you can link back to the source of origin so that it drives more eyeballs back to the media outlet. So if you get, when you get an article in Inside Small Business, for example, you want to ensure that you link that back to the Inside Small Business site, because that's good for Mia, that's good for her eyeballs, that's good for their revenue and their count to have more eyeballs. 

Really, when we boil it right down, media isn't that complex. It is simply a competition for people's eardrums and eyeballs. Channel 9 want more eyeballs than Channel 7 or Channel 10.3AW want more eardrums than ABC. Inside Small Business wants more eyeballs than Smart Company. It's just a competition for eyeballs and eardrums. So if you have that in mind when you pitch, also have that in mind when you leverage the coverage to drive people back to the media of origin.

Mia:

And finally, this episode obviously was based on DIYing or PR. But how do you know if maybe it's a good idea to bring that agency on board? Like what are some signs that that actually could be a good investment?

Kate:

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's not just budgetary. It's a big budgetary consideration. I think understanding how the media game is played. You know, we've had businesses at their beginning come to the Meet the Press Masterclass and then grow so much that they can afford an agency. But they also know much, much smarter questions to ask the agency because they now know how the media game is played, right? 

So the way, the reason that the couple that have gone on to, a couple of businesses that have gone on to engage an agency themselves, it really gets down to capacity. If business owners have an hour or two each week that they can dedicate to their own publicity, doing it themselves, building those relationships so there's no intermediary and they can go direct to the journalist, an hour or two a week, that's all you need. Like it really isn't a massive extra job.

But if the business grows to the extent where there's no internal capacity for the business owner or their team to do that themselves, that might be a good time to go to an agency. And knowing the questions to ask the agency is really crucial. So it's certainly not something that I think people should rush into. I don't ever like hearing people say, oh yeah, I gave an agency a go for three months. Because the agency's not going to do their best work inside of three months. It really needs to be at least a 12 month commitment. And then you can kind of suck it and see, but you want to give the folk in the agency a really long runway to be able to maximise what it is your business is doing and generate the coverage. 

Now that doesn't mean that you can't have performance reviews and an out clause at three months, six months, nine months. I absolutely would recommend that that is the case. If the results haven't been produced, then we can hit the exit button without triggering a breach of contract and any sort of legal action, because you don't want that. No small business can afford that. So it is really important to be super clear that you are very ready if you're going to take that leap with an agency because it's really expensive and it needs to be a longer term commitment.

Mia:

Well, Kate, if people want to find you after this podcast, where can they find you on the internet?

Kate:

Thank you. It's www.meetthepressmasterclass.com.au and our socials are The Publicity Princess.

Mia:

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking a little bit about PR. 

Mia: Doing PR yourself rather than signing up to an agency certainly sounds like a great way to save money. But how does this work in reality?

We're joined now by a business owner who has experienced both DIYing her PR and working with agencies. Jackie Magid is the co-owner of Charlie's Fine Foods, a baked goods company that has been supplying businesses and retailing to customers for 21 years. If you Google Charlie's Fine Foods or even just Jacky's name, you'll find a wealth of media coverage ranging from product releases to business profiles to news commentary. I'm keen to find out the strategies behind all this great PR and how Jacky has leveraged it to build buzz around her brand.

Jacky, thank you for coming on the show.

Jacky:

Thanks for having me, Mia

Mia:

Awesome to have you on. I'm excited to unpack 21 years worth of PR and especially from a DIY perspective. So I'd love to pick up what we were sort of talking about in the first half of this episode. We were talking about the decision to DIY your PR versus using a PR professional or a PR agency, whichever one. Jacky, I know you've used both methods before. Do you prefer one over the other or can both be good depending on your business and the type of PR that you want?

Jacky:

Absolutely, I mean both can work and I think the decision to go it alone is not only a financial one. We've had success in both methods but I think once we started to develop confidence in telling our own story we felt that media outlets wanted to speak with us directly anyway and that we were best placed to tell the story. So while the media agency might have good relationships and might be able to navigate the pitch in a way that resonates with the media outlet. At the end of the day, they want to hear from the business owner. They want to talk to the business and get insight and understanding from the business owner. So we certainly have found it to be most successful, and that is predominantly now the method that we use.

Mia:

And have you also found that it's been better for you to build relationships maybe directly with journalists? That was something we were talking about in the first half of this episode.

Jacky:

Absolutely and when you do start to PR it yourself, you like anything, need to build relationships. in the same way as I'm a salesperson and I build relationships with my customers, it's really important to do the same with the media outlets and the journalists and also to be sensitive to their needs in the same way as you do when you're selling and you don't take, you know, every product to every customer you think about what product suits what customer and I think pitching for media is very similar.

Mia:

And that ties in perfectly to my next question which is about the timing of your PR. Do you try and push for media coverage only when something big has happened at Charlie's or is PR kind of an ongoing pursuit for you?

Jacky:

I think we have it in the back of our mind all the time, but we certainly are not taking every story and everything we do to a media agency. I think you, it's a little bit like crying wolf otherwise, I think you have to be quite strategic in your approach and you need to think about the media outlet that suits the story. So for example, if we're pitching a business story like our 21 years of being in the industry, we would probably take that to a business magazine. I don't think consumers per se would be that interested in it. In the same way as when we're launching a product, if it's consumer focused, then we might go to the consumer media. If it's trade focused, we'd go to trade magazines. And the other thing I think that's happened over the years is social media has become such a big part of how you communicate story.

So sometimes media outlets are picking up stories that we're posting on social media and approaching us in that sense. So that's a big difference now too.

Mia:

Ok, yeah that's really interesting. A few things I want to ask you about off the back of that, what you just told me. First of all, you have said that you do pick and choose stories obviously to pitch to different outlets depending on what the story is. Is there any other kind of research or preparation that you do pre-pitch? You know, do you actually target specific journalists as well when you're preparing?

Jacky:

Yeah, absolutely, and that's where the relationship building comes in. And you know, the point where you've got really good relationships, you can sound them out. After all, they are human too. And I think, you know, there's no harm in saying, you know, I think I've got a story and can I flesh it out for you? And that's essentially what we did with the 21st birthday. You know, we felt that it was, it was quite significant to be in business in the hospitality area for 21 years. We've gone through the GFC, we've gone through COVID. We're seeing a lot of food businesses close, which is terribly sad. And so we thought it was quite a remarkable achievement to still be in business 21 years on. And so we started to have those conversations and sound them out without really a press release. And once we got the feedback that there was definitely a story then you know we designed a press release and some imagery and things to accompany it.

Mia:

You mentioned in a chat we had before recording that you pay attention to the context or the news cycle. Can you tell me a bit about how you do that and maybe an example?

Jacky:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you have to be aware of what is on trend or what magazines are focusing on or what consumers are wanting to read. Social media is a great way of testing that too. You'll either get engagement or you won't. But absolutely you need to think about what the journalists or what the magazines are trying to communicate and make sure that your story is relevant to that. And I think that's to the point where I said you know if it's you know Inside FMCG or it's a magazine that focuses on product launches that that's where you would take your product launches you know if you wanted to tell the story of you know a new product launch that really was reaching consumers and had a benefit for consumers potentially then you would take it to a mainstream paper like The Age or Herald Sun you know.

We've also had some great coverage where I think probably the most relevant story in this regard was during COVID, we did something quite sort of unusual at the time. I mean, it's hard to remember all the things you did during COVID, but we had a workforce that had to work in close proximity to one another and we were essential service, so we were allowed to work. And then you'll remember the compulsory vaccinations came in and we had a lot of staff that were very, very reluctant to be vaccinated or, you know, they'd heard rumours that, you know, I think one of them even said to me, you know, she might not be able to get pregnant if she had a vaccination. 

So we took it upon ourselves to engage a local doctor to come and communicate that to our staff. And I think, you know, that was newsworthy. You know, there were lots of people trying to navigate a space that hadn't been navigated before people didn't know what to do. And here was a business that sort of took initiative to get a doctor in to inform their staff in an area that we're not expert. And no one was really expert to be honest, but certainly the medical profession was, you know, better placed to do that. And that story got picked up.

Mia:

Yeah, I noticed that when I was researching your PR coverage, that was one of the ones that stood out to me. Was there sort of a strategy behind that or was this sort of you doing something for the community by sharing your story?

Jacky:

I think it was more about doing it for the community. You know, we had some really great feedback from our staff in doing it. I think not only did we have good feedback, but some of them said, could we do this live on Zoom so that my family members could hear what this doctor has to say? And we were really moved by that. And then I think, you know, we felt that we were in a position as a company where we needed to show leadership and share, you know, not that everyone has to do what we do but it was it was an idea and it worked so we wanted to get that story out there and I think that you know the media felt it was newsworthy because of that.

Mia:

Did you have anyone comment on the story after the fact or in the years since it's come out, like any potential customers or anyone who wanted to work with the business, you know, have they seen that and potentially wanted to work with you a bit more or, you know, have you seen any direct impact of that story?

Jacky:

Yeah, I mean it's hard to think back now but certainly we got a lot of great feedback from it and I think what it also does is it triggers interest from other media. I mean we often talk in the sales world that if you nail an important customer, that has a trickle-on effect to other customers and I think that you know media works in a similar way so we did get some more coverage on other things after that and it just puts you on the map.

Mia:

Hmm no absolutely and I think journalists are always looking for stories right and maybe you might not get you know coverage of your biscuits first go but if a journalist you know I know if I was looking at that and I saw how willing you were to show your story how open you were how great you were at communicating that then I might reach out and say let's talk about the biscuits you know.

Jacky:

Yeah, and I think that that that to that point, Mia, you're absolutely right. You have to think beyond just what your product is. You know, it's not always going to be your product that is the hero. There's a lot that goes on in small business from an HR perspective, from a health and safety perspective, from a cash flow perspective. There's lots there's lots you can talk about and you can share. There's a husband and wife perspective. Not everyone can work with their husband. We’ve been asked to speak about that often. Yeah so there's lots of angles and I don't think you should be focused only on your product not to say we don't make an amazing product.

Mia:

Yes, no, I've tested your product, it's fantastic. Because building on what Kate said in the first half of this episode, she was talking about how when you're pitching as a small business owner, your product is like the caboose of the train, right? I think this example of yours, Jackie, where it kind of had nothing to do with your product, it goes a step further and kind of shows how media coverage really doesn't have to be so promotional to have a good impact and give you some good PR. 

Jacky:

And yeah, and you know, when you actually look at that story, it became a lot about product, you know, because they came into the bakery, they filmed the product, they filmed the staff, but yeah, it wasn't the lead.

Mia:

Hmm. Yeah, and I'm sure that the pitch wasn't, can you maybe film some of our biscuits? So I'd love to talk now about how you put together a pitch when you are reaching out to journalists. Over the years, what are the kinds of things that have gotten you responses and what kind of hasn't worked?

Jacky:

Again it comes down to thinking through what it is that the specific media outlet might be interested in and not taking every story imaginable. So the stories that haven't worked are probably the stories that haven't been well thought out or they're not multi-layered. So I think if it's just, you know, we've launched new cookies in Woolworths or whatever. I mean that's where also social media is becoming a new platform to do that sort of thing. I think that you know media outlets you know don't have the time or the space for just regurgitating product launches and so we're better placed to use social media for that. 

Having said that, when it's a new product in a new format to a new customer that we've been working on for a really long time, I think that's a nice story that people want to hear. You know, we worked for several years to get a product on Qantas. We've just launched a new product with Aldi Supermarkets we've never worked with before. So that's got a feel about it that is a little bit more interesting than you know, we've just had a range review at Woolworths and we've taken this product out and put this product in. So it's thinking through what people want to hear and the more multi-layered you can make the story, I think the better.

Mia:

What avenues do you pitch through? Like do you hop into somebody's LinkedIn or do you send an email or do you go on the phone?

Jacky:

I think I ‘LinkedIn’ in you Mia, the first time I pitched to you. So yeah, I use all sorts of avenues and sometimes as I said, we might do a LinkedIn post or an Instagram post and then a journalist will say, hey, that looks quite newsworthy. Can you send me a press release on it? So yeah, I mean, since we've started DIYing it, I guess we've put together our own little database and we communicate through all avenues. 

But first time, if I don't have somebody's email address, sure, I'll probably use LinkedIn. And then otherwise, we have a database, like a customer database, I guess, that we nurture and keep in contact with. And we might send things out that we don't necessarily want as a story, but just to keep in touch and to keep the relationship alive.

Mia:

One thing I appreciated Jackie, the way that you approached me was that it was very hyper-personalised. You know, I think what you could have done is sent a message through the website, through the contact form, without knowing who the editor was, but it was clear that you'd taken the time to think about our publication, who I am, what I might want to cover, and you'd approached me directly, which is always, you know, a great thing to see and I think unfortunately does mean that the pitch is more likely to be read.

Jacky:

Yeah right, well that's interesting feedback because I think that's the other thing is that you know in the past when we've worked with agencies you know it's been a real sort of scatter gun approach it's been you know let's send 20 press releases and PR boxes out to everybody but it's not personalised. And so it's very sort of, you know, one in 10 gets picked up. I'd rather pitch one story to one person and set, you know, I'm probably getting the same strike rate that just sending stuff out. I mean, people get things sent to them all the time.

Mia:

Yeah, exactly. And that's sort of what we talked about in the first half of this episode. How do you stand out from the noise, right? And Kate warned to stay away from this, what she calls the spray and pray approach, which I've seen a lot of PR people talking about on LinkedIn. So yeah, I suppose any good PR agency would not be doing that. Yeah, definitely, I think scope to make it even more personalised if you, the business owner, are the one who is nurturing those relationships and reaching out in person.

So when you do get coverage Jackie, what do you do to make the most of it?

Jacky:

That's a great question. I guess again we tried to broadcast it further than the publication itself. So obviously if we get an article on Inside FMCG that's where it sits but then we will share that on our LinkedIn, you know, on our social media platforms if we think it's appropriate and then of course we post it on our website which gives us the backlinks to the publication, which helps with SEO. And as you say, you Google me, you find it on our website. So historically, I think it's also good to keep all of those stories together. So that's essentially what we do. We try to broadcast it as far as we can outside the actual publication.Mia:

What kind of things has your business gained from good PR over the years?

Jacky:

I think two things. think, well, trust and reliability, certainly. You know, if you communicate a good story out there, then, you know, for your customers, for your consumers, you're getting your brand out there and you're getting it out there with an association of trust. And I think that's really important in growing a brand and building sales. So I think it does have an impact on sales.

And yeah, I think the other thing is that it helps to grow your media presence. I think that sometimes when a media outlet picks you up, somebody else will pick you up or will read the story. And also, once you build those relationships, it's two ways. So, you know, I can also have journalists approach me and say, I remember that you were that small business or I remember that you worked with your husband or I remember, you know, I've got this, I'm doing a story on family business and, you know, I'd like you to be a part of it. So it does go both ways and I think that the more you get, the more likely you are to get.