Episode 2: SOLO CEO Dan Larkin: Navigating Solar Challenges and Tech Entrepreneurship

In this episode, SOLO's CEO, Dan Larkin, talks with Abby about the ups and downs of the solar industry and his journey as a tech entrepreneur. They also dive into the inspiration behind SOLO's space theme, offering a glimpse into the creative process that fuels innovation in solar technology. Join the conversation for a simple yet insightful exploration of entrepreneurship, technology, and the unique world of SOLO.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I actually don't know the story about you. I want to know what year did you start solo? And is it your first, was it your first like real true tech venture?

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Um, yeah. So started solo. Technically, it was part of another company for a little bit. Uh, but we started it in 2017. The solar company that I was running at the time, we started in 2016, which was actually our second um our second venture in solar. Uh, we had built a business um that I started from my garage in California um in 2013. Um as a reseller for Solar City.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

So uh built that business that grew very quickly. We were doing about 2,000 installs a month um in 2014. Um and you know, we were one of three solar companies that you could really work for at the time. Um, so it was easier to recruit them. We were recruiting 30, 40, 50 people a week. Um and uh the software that existed back then was built for call centers because most of the solar companies back their own call centers. So we it didn't really work well door to door. So we partnered actually with Sales Rabbit at the time and helped them build out their solar, um, solar specific feature set as they were almost exclusively in the um security and pest control space at the time. Um, so we were their first and only solar client for a while, um, built out uh so I got a little bit of experience in in interacting with dev companies. But as far as like building out technology, um, near the end of our time with evolve, this was 2015, we decided to instead of piece a lot of different systems together, we were gonna just build it all into one. Um and we called it Dashboard. So we weren't very creative.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

I actually think that's not too bad.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yeah. Um and uh so dashboard, we were really pumped about it. We ended up selling the solar business, but um it was to Sun Edison, and Sun Edison um had their own tech platform, and um, we ended up moving from using the design tool that is built into Google's suite of tools, which is called SketchUp, um, and uh over to using um a tool called Mod, Mod Solar.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I remember SketchUp well, and I actually think I remember mod too.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yeah, I I don't know anybody else that ever used it, to be honest. It was um maybe it still exists, I'm not sure. So I won't say anything about it. Uh but uh we learned you know from using several different design tools through you know a couple of years of doing you know 20,000 installs and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of proposals in that time. What features we liked and didn't like, and what was you know, what made our lives hard and what made it easy. Um but when we sold the business to Sun Edison, uh, I actually put some of my um uh capital to invest into a new tech company that we created called Recon. And it was in a completely different industry. I won't get into the details, but it was a gamified um platform for the firearm industry, which was kind of like Strava but for um butt for guns.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah, oh it was so fun, just so fun to be in that industry. But I had a lot of damn a lot of contacts, a lot of momentum in solar, and when Sun Edison went bankrupt, which you know, to see everything that you've built torn down. And it, you know, it is heart wrenching, brutal, so brutal. Um, you know, we're brothers and sisters in that pain. So it is it is it is hard. So we decided to put recon on i. So that was actually my first tech company.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Um, I had dabbled in marketing and advertising and social media, you know, management, things like that before. Um, but that was our first true tech startup. But the um the momentum in solar and the opportunity that was created when Sun Edison went bankrupt, it released me from my non-compete, allowed me to, you know, it gave me a decision, you know, to keep going with recon and build something in a new industry, which to be fair, I had no right to keep um uh or go and um you know put that on ice and go build again in solar. And so um yeah, we we decided to you know uh to start up again in in the solar space and went and recruited teams and brought back some of our ops people from the evolved days and um very quickly took a lot of our experience and knowledge from building dashboard um and from using proposal, you know, multiple proposal tools that were very difficult to work with and created um what originally we called Phoenix, and the remnants of Phoenix still exist in Solo. So if you go log into Solo, the URL is actually phx.go solo.io. So um that that helmets, yeah, which is kind of our our early days of of tech. And we realized quickly that Phoenix, the platform, um, was more valuable than the uh in uh uh to us than the actual solar company that we were creating. But the you know, the solar company was also growing like crazy, and so we just split them and let the solar company you know be managed by the team there. And yeah, um, and then I uh went full-time in the end of probably middle of 2017 to minute uh to the end of 2017. But the company solo didn't actually exist until January of 2018.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

It was just a brand and an idea, but well, it was a brand and a software, but it was under the solar company until January 2018.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

That's really cool. Um, your story or the piece that you touched on as far as taking all these things that you'd strung together and then, you know, wanting to kind of go for building it all internally, really speaks to my interest now in leaning into the tech space because I don't know about you. I didn't grow up going, I'm gonna run a tent company someday, right? Like this is my dream. Was that yours? Is that no, not at all? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Yeah. I wanted to be an astronaut.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Is that the the branding touch inspo?

SPEAKER_02 7:19

That is. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

It's so cool. I love the uniqueness.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

In fact, I didn't stop wanting to be an astronaut until college, probably, when I uh I was literally in the recruiting office for the name uh for the Air Force um with the contract in front of me. And I knew the path uh that I wanted to go, and I started asking some deeper questions about how likely the the Air Force would allow me to choose that path and to support it. And they basically said it was like a 1% chance.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

So I was like, So you're telling me there's a chance. Seven-year commitment. That actually is really funny to me because you know, I'm moving into a tech space myself. You know this because I've reached out too many a times. But the person that I call to say, you know, give me your advice on this or pick your brain. And I actually haven't had to ask. You've just been super generous and have given me some incredible tips and structuring, you know, the way that I'm looking at things, um, which I of course appreciate a ton. But the wisdom that you've gained and the experience is just, it's incredible. I'm a massive fan. Um, and again, really appreciative. So before I jump into that space, because I really want to hear some of your thoughts on um the startup and you know, landscape and the the rich, you know, we're both in Utah and you know, we're we're in tech startup capital as far as you know the the Silicon Slopes Connect, which is super, super fun. But before we jump too far down there, um we're both in solar. You've you've been through um ups and downs in solar. You've been through, you've been in the coaster for a minute. Um, you and I have done some business together, which has been great. Um and yeah, the the landscape right now, I just keep hearing so much doom and gloom. And it's it's not a it's not a fun landscape when you're in a tailwind environment, right? Um, so first and foremost, I think it's really interesting that you guys on the solo side have so much of a closeness or a connectedness to what's happening, like to the real factual. Here's kind of what's going down as far as what numbers look like. What is your perspective? What is the what is the real picture right now?

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Um, you know, it's a complicated, everything's so interconnected, way more so than I thought at the beginning of the year. Um, but you know, the numbers right now, to be honest, are we've we've seen the worst and we've seen the numbers start to trend in the right direction. Um, I think that all of the industry hoped that it would, that that, you know, up into the right trend would be a steeper climb. Yeah. Like it would, it would climb faster and and more profitably for companies. Um, it's been a slow grueling climb out of this uh kind of macroeconomic slump that we've found ourselves in since March, April. So um we first saw these trends um in maybe November last year and believed that um, like, hey, the demand for solar is strong enough to withstand the you know these you know these uh pressures.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Um and in a lot of markets that is the case. It's really in the markets where you know they were already operating with a kind of bill swap opportunity for homeowners, um, or in markets where net metering has changed drastically, where we saw the biggest decline, and that's where they've had the hardest time um building that those numbers back up. And what we found is that um, and this is actually super interesting, is that the people who are doing the most volume right now have only been in the industry for maybe three to six months.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

That's wild. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 11:17

They have never sold a 199 smile before.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

They didn't have it handed to them on a platter, is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

That's really honestly what it is. And there are there's still those, uh, you know, that's like the highest producing volume group right now. Okay. The next highest producing are the old school like solid dots. When there were no loans and everyone was selling TPO before.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

There's and so they've been through transitions like this. And um, I think that uh it a lot of the people who saw incredible success last year and the year before, they it that are, you know, it'll take them a little while. Um, if they haven't already made that switch, they're probably already kind of opted out of the industry. Um, but you know, the the leading indicators right now are stabilizing and starting to grow back in the right direction. And I I really wish that I could sit here and say, hey, everything is awesome. Because to be honest, like the interconnectedness of everything um in our space means that you know, really tough decisions are needing to be made by these companies. It's like, hey, Miami is no longer profitable. Do we cut that limb off completely?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Well, you know, we love Bob, the manager in Miami. Like, what do we do about that? Yeah, you know, yeah. And uh everyone's having to figure out how to operate in a more lean manner.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

We're seeing big companies cut their bottom, you know, six, seven, eight markets that uh are just not their leaders, you know, and and yeah, I'm on group threads and people kind of go, oh, you know, this, you know, panic. And I kind of go, this is a good sign. This is what people should be doing, because I experienced firsthand that, you know, you're you're putting down so much capital and growth in the future into some of these markets, and you got to be able to um pivot quickly.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

And uh, you know, on that note, you and I were were both uh cruising in 2020, which was a different landscape, right? Like the the uh the economy was going through some wild shifts and changes, but it created this artificial weird bump in solar. We were uh an essential business. I on the install side was trying to figure out how to, you know, get everybody on the phone and say, it's gonna be okay, but we got to go to work tomorrow. And the world is shutting down. And it was wild. You know, we have this big empty office, and um we were trying to produce bigger numbers than we ever had. And that pressure, I I just will never forget because I kind of went, I'm not built for this. I don't know what I'm supposed to do now, right? Like I was terrified before this. Um, and after I'm just nothing but grateful because you you learn so many lessons about yourself. You learn a lot of lessons about taking fear head on, you know, when to be uh in risk mode and when to be in retract mode. And you develop an entirely different perspective on being, uh, what's the word? Just a little more resilient. Resilience for sure. Resilience, I think, is a big one. I'm glad you brought that word up because I I I think of solo and I think of Dan Larkin and I think of resilience. I think of uh, you know, mature business. Um, and again, someone that I like to learn from. So, what advice would you give companies that are trying to find resilience as leaders right now?

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Oh, um, I appreciate your kind words, by the way. I mean, it to be honest, we're all making this up as we go.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Just figuring it out.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Everyone runs into a new problem. And uh, but you know, it for me it's having a um a clear, um, unwavering uh confidence and um optimism for your for your North Star or your vision of the future. And that's sort of like that to me has to be crystal clear.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

And that's what the it's kind of a um a weird um uh experience to know what the future holds, to know what that looks like so clearly, but not know what next week looks like.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Yeah, and and that's you know, obviously a little um exaggeration, but it's it is so true. Yeah. I mean, you if you know what what you're building towards and you have unwavering confidence in that, then you know that you'll get there. Right. And that and you'll be willing to do the work to get there. Right. And that means that if you're facing a problem, there is a way around it. Right. And you just have to be creative enough to figure that out. And you know, if if I have a superpower, and uh, you know, I always when I hire people around me, I always try to figure out what their superpowers are so that I can find people with superpowers that are uh that are complementary.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Complimentary, different.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Love that exactly, right? Uh stack them on top of each other. But if I have one, it is um to be able to very, very quickly um uh think through uh a diverse amount of problems and how those problems all uh interact with each other, um, what that dynamic is from one element of our business to another element of our business, but be able to think in specific technical terms on each of them independently and find creative solutions around challenges where um you know those director, you know, level or head of you know those departments may be so tunnel vision on on the problem because they've been looking at it too long.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

All they need is a creative builder to come in and say, hey, here's a solution we might not have thought of. And whether that's the right solution or not, it changes the the thought process. Sure. So when I think of resilience, it's it's really you know that Rocky quote of it's not how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep on going up.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Keep on getting up.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

And and uh that's because that that is life, right? Right, every single business experiences this is that it you think like right now, I we're going through a struggle. And if you can find a way to be optimistic, find joy in the struggle, but be able to think creative, well, because you know what the vision is, right? But in in the moment, not let the wall that's in front of you block your vision of the future, but then start thinking creatively of ways around it. And the the worst thing that you can do, the opposite of resilience, is freezing and not making decisions because you're either overanalyzing or you're so focused on the problem that you can't see around it.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah. I love that. I heard uh I heard a recipe of tactical solutions, creative problem solving, staying in action mode. And the last one, which I think I love the most, is uh a little bit of walking in blind faith, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

I think that um, you know I had some interesting conversations, you know, coming off of um a big business loss, you know, and jumping back in. And um, you know, there's this stigma of, you know, what if you fail again? Or how do you know that you're not gonna fail again, right? And it's I just think of it so differently. It's, you know, it's it's a matter of how many times are we all gonna fail in life at one thing or another. But the fear of putting myself in a position where I'm gonna have a failure is just the silliest thing because those failures are full of all sorts of lessons and good things. But, you know, the experience, you know, to your point of enjoying the process, I enjoy the hell out of this process. I just like love it. And I love the creative piece probably the most. But, you know, some people are gonna fail. And some people are gonna find in that failure that this is really for them and they're gonna come back out swinging and you know, be the best version of themselves. And other people are gonna fail and say, that's not for me. And and that's okay too, because it's just not for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

But yeah, I will, you know, being uh in this industry long enough now, I've gone through lots of ups and downs. You know, when I started, it was still part of the, you know, we were still in the Great Recession.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

We were still experiencing that.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

And um it was um, you know, we didn't have loans to sell. And so we were selling PPAs and releases, and um, and the install timelines were nine to twelve months to the system installed. And and and then you know, loans came out and the interest rates were six percent to sell a solar loan at the beginning. It was like five nine nine was the average interest rate. And then then we saw three nine nines, and then they, you know, then it became like, okay, this is it, let's keep going. This is awesome. Yeah, but in all of that, you know, I thought I knew exactly what my future held, and my future changed so many times in that, right? And that being able to, you know, continue to have that that vision and that faith in the future um is is crucial, but also be able to look at um emerging opportunities and pivot as needed to include opportunities like that in your vision.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Um, it is it has meant that sometimes I've had to see everything I've built fall apart and start over from scratch. I've had to go years without pay. Like I am so grateful that I was that I was able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Like able to build a company without taking a paycheck for what was like 18 months straight. And my wife, I'm sure, was not thrilled. She hates the fact that I'm an entrepreneur. She thinks she's come to terms with it a little bit. But but then there's been amazing times.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Amazing, amazing times of growth that are so exciting. That those early days when you're growing, you know, a hundred percent, five hundred percent, a thousand percent, whatever it is, a year, it it is. So exciting and exhilarating. It's so fun. But it, you know, the industry went through a solid couple, you know, couple three years where you could afford to be wasteful and still be successful.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

And now we don't have that luxury. We can't waste a single cent.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Because we're all, you know, we all have a uh stewardship and a responsibility to the companies that we run and the people that work there, um, and to our clients and customers. And wasting anything now, you know, the companies who have will figure out how to run lean, um, you know, lean and mean, those are the ones that are gonna win. Um but that that kind of uh if you don't have that blind faith, I think is that what you said? That blind faith. Then I don't know if I would use the same same words, but um, if you don't have it, the hard decisions that you have to make are they're too much. Yeah, it it is it is too hard to look at somebody who's worked for you for five years and say, we don't have the luxury to have this role in our company right now. And it is harmful to the other uh mission critical initiatives to spend money there and make a decision like that. Yeah. And that's where, like you said, it's it's not for everybody. I think that is a decision I wish that I could have so many times over the last 10 years handed off to somebody.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Someone else want this. Yeah. Yeah. I want to hide it. I know you ask as a leader. You are um, I've seen firsthand, very connected with your people. And I know that pain. It's it's brutal to um really feel you know, the way that the responsibility of these people in your care, and you just care for them so deeply and you build something together. And I see so many people on LinkedIn, this is a controversial topic. So many people say, quit saying it's a family. It's not a family, it's a company, right? And I just say that, you know, perspective in a couple of different ways, because you know, you don't toss words around um, you know, in ways that you don't mean them, of course, and you don't um, you know, use terms like that in a in a in a way to to trick people, you know, all those things, right? But I, you know, the term family or the you bond with these people in a very unique, unique way that you just can't really, it's kind of like probably like climbing Everest as a group of strangers and you come out, you know, just like uh hugging, you know, and together. Yes, it's um it's wild. And so that is a big part of I think the emotional toll that a lot of people don't uh recognize is that that uh sleepless nights, if you you feel like maybe, you know, you've let some people down, and unfortunately that's that's more common than not.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Um that's where trying to find joy in the struggle, like I think about it all the time. I like how how this year in particular, we um we this has been a really hard year for solo in general. We had a a close friend and employee um commit suicide. Um, and we had our COO, uh, one of our my business partners uh die of a heart attack. And and we've had to lay off, you know, a hundred people.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

It was a really, really hard year. I'm so sorry. Each of those took took such a strong emotional toll that it was too easy just to justify working longer, working harder, but hiding.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Hiding behind that work a lot. And it the it wasn't until um, in fact, we uh this whole time I've paid out of pocket for um therapy for all of our employees um and life coaches.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Such a big fan of that, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

And it's it's we talk about like what of our what are our sacred cows? Probably a uh cultural, I don't know, inappropriate thing to say. And I'm sorry if it is. But like we have some things in our business that we will completely shut down if we if we need to save the money. But this is like my sacred cow, like um, because of the mental health that a lot of uh issues that a lot of people deal with um in Utah and in tech and in just the use, uh, you know, um this is something that's been really I've been really passionate about.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

So applicable right now too.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

And um the feedback that I got from the therapists is it was that hey, people noticed that that you um have not been the the same Dan Larkin that you were six months ago.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

And I well, it it was a slap in the face and a lot of guilt. And then I realized like, dude, grow up, like, yeah, it was hard to go through all of that. But the people who are still here, the people who, you know, that you need to support now, they they want to be somewhere where they can feel the energy and excitement of what that vision that you have for this company, what that is, they need they need reminders of that because you have that ingrained in your system and they don't. And so that was a kind of an eye-opener for me.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Uh I gotta tell you, um you're speaking to me, obviously, in a really, really deep way as a as a leader that's you know had to deal with a lot of failure and has had to face a lot of people. But um, you've always been really transparent and really open. But I gotta tell you, I'm super grateful that you're being so real about this because as somebody that's been in that space, I I don't think I've ever had anybody really just talk openly, you know, human to human about the weight of that and what that is like. Um, and so I know a lot of people out there will find a lot of value in this. So thank you for that. Um, but yeah, you you spoke to me because my the biggest regret that I have through my trial, you know, as a leader, um, was the the way that I I experienced just a full-blown shutdown, like a traumatic event. And I couldn't find a meet. I couldn't, I couldn't even find the words. And it was really shameful for me because I felt, you know, there's nothing more important than for me to show up right now. And um, you know, two or three major hits and I've, you know, thought on through it, said, I'm gonna fight through this, we're gonna fight, we're gonna come on top. And then when everything got pulled out from underneath, um, you know, I I I kind of remember, you know, people that care I cared a lot about going, Are you there? And I just, it was complete numbness. And I feel like I lost a period of my life where I don't even have a real memory of it. But I think the biggest, most important thing is we're human, right? Like, how much dehumanization, you know, do we are we all sort of um guilty of and just leaders of these companies, right? It's um it's easy to forget.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

You know, in the box, out of the box. You know, it is it's easy to uh treat our problems like numbers on a page. And especially when you have boards that you report to and are are accountable to to a certain degree. Like they don't most of those people have never been in a a business or a startup at all. They went through the finance route and ended up you know working their way up through partners, uh, you know, as a partner in a business, you know, until they were you know full-blown private equity, you know. And so they don't know what it's like to uh you know to have to um, at least not from firsthand experience. They've been around it, yeah, but they don't know. And so to them, you know, they were saying, hey, we need to reduce op X by X, period. Like, and you're like, well, that's Bob. And Bob's been with us for five years. Like that's Bob's having twins next month, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Um, like you have to humanize it and you have to figure out how to what you're willing to sacrifice and find those creative ways around those problems um in order to do the best that you possibly can. And if you do have to make those hard decisions, and Bob does need to get let go because of, you know, to be honest, like it's at a certain point, it does more harm than good to try to to try to um save parts of your business that aren't working.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

So but being able to recognize that, do everything you possibly can to make it work, and then if you and then when you are to the uh you know to a point where you do need to make those changes, um you do it in the most human, and I want to use the word humane because they're not pets, right? But the most human way possible, and there's no right way to be a human necessarily. It's a messy process. Right, you're gonna say the wrong thing, even though you mean the right. You're trying to do the right thing and say the right for the right reasons. Right. And you're not gonna do it right to everybody for everyone. We got complaints that okay, you're you're too emotional in this. Or like, or I'm I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

I would absolutely, yeah, argue that um that human touch and that connectedness and relatability is what makes companies great. It's uh, you know, it's it shows itself in the the tough times and it shows itself in the great times. But as a leader, I would say uh absolutely keep that. And I have actually had the great pleasure of being close to the solo encore culture that's been created in that building. And I've seen firsthand the direct impact in people's lives that I grew to love and care about myself and how they've been impacted in a positive way by the access to mental health care right there on site and um life coaching. And it's um it's beautiful. Don't ever change that. That's just amazing. It's such a unique um value add, and and people love it, and it's it's so good. Good on you.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

I love startups because you can you it is in crafting a culture out of business, um is a it's really hard because it takes on a life of its own because you are bringing a lot of very different people together, and the culmination of that is is uh makes up a huge part of the culture. And then you just need to give it the um the some structure, container, right? Yeah, so some some structure and direction and in vision, yeah, and then allow the allow them to feel purpose um and freedom and knowledge that they that they are appreciated and cared for. And then it really goes. And um it is something that uh that it has a you know, it's good and bad. The good part is I love being there every day. I never go to work thinking, uh, you know, um, but it does make it harder to um, yeah, uh well, I should say that it makes it tempting to want to um take a step out of that, not be so in it, so that when I do have to make those harder decisions, they're not so hard on me.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Um, but um it's not worth it. It's it's not worth the the emotional distance that it creates. I've got some incredible um friendships and even just learning amazing things about amazing people who are just starting out in their careers and and they're they're just so interesting. And um and you really do end up caring for them. And if when when you do have to part ways, it it does make it hard. But you know, it it is hopefully something that leaves them in a better position to do, you know, to go on and do bigger and better things. And they have the the knowledge that they're worth it and that they will be a fantastic um, you know, resource at their own business one day or at another business. But um, yeah, the the tech world, it does um you know, gives you uh in startup, not just tech, startups in general. In the solar industry, they're you know, it's a new solar company every 10 seconds. Yeah, it is um and we love it. And if you are looking for resources, come to Solar, we'll support you.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

You touched on something though. New companies every couple minutes popping up. Where do you, before we jump to that, where do you feel like the landscape of solar tech is going? Where do you think the future's taking us in that arena?

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Well, tech in general is moving in a strong way into AI. Um uh and there is um so many, so many avenues that that can go that it it is um it's honestly hard to even grasp. I would say that if you are an engineer, a developer, learning how to work with AI to make your job easier and or um specializing in technology that is so um technical that you know the that will create um job security for developers and for product uh product managers, product owners. Um that interaction with AI and being creative on how to apply it, um, not only in your business operations, but in your product for your end users, will make sure that you know the the companies that companies don't get passed by by you know new entrants in this emerging, you know, emerging space.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Oh, that's so exciting. Um jumping into startups, I uh uh in the tech space. Sorry, I had to get my my head straight there. I recently learned about this concept. Um, I attended this uh this boot camp that was really geared towards um tech startups and in the silicone slopes. Um, and it was just so cool, right? Because I've I've been through as a as a business owner, um, you know, building on the construction side and this this tech, it just was fascinating to me to learn more about the world of venture funding and me, just this, this whole new um space. So I think the the interesting thing for me was this concept that I learned about lean startup methodology.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

And you know about this, right? Like I didn't, but uh the concept here of lean startup is especially if you're in a space of um building something really disruptive as far as tech goes, the uh exercise of taking every bit of time that you can to flesh out your product offerings, uh your product market fit, uh, how you've structured every part of your deliverables within your product before you take on outside capital to fund, but really before you invest in any sort of scalable activity within your business, it really just was eye-opening for me, you know, because I think a lot of people in business, and I've been guilty of this in the past, do this, build it and they will come mindset, right? And you can in a time like this, especially with, you know, with tech and investment in tech, you can certainly build it and have nobody come, especially if it's if you're really trying to, you know, convince people that this is something new and unique and it's gonna change, but they haven't really, you know, there isn't a market already created. You've talked a lot, you know, on your personal channels about being that um that pioneer or that path creator. Uh, I love that concept, but it's even more important to be really thoughtful in spending of resources and and um you know, scaling a business after you've gone through that phase. And so we on the radical side have been really taking those uh to heart and have been processing and practicing and getting tons of feedback right now from clients and uh so many ways that we can take this and and really take in this, you know, downtime or this natural slowness, you know, that's happening in our space and using it um as a really fruitful idea generator and feedback generator so that as everybody is you know experiencing this upswing, we can really be poised to kind of to make the most of it uh meet meet the industry where it's going. Absolutely. Uh I think there's some interesting, unique opportunities kind of in where we're at. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah. Um you know, when resources are plentiful, it's easy to you know throw slot on the wall and see what sticks.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

And to some degree, like you can actually um measure innovation by the um quantity of uh of um new products that you bring to market versus the quality of them. Um because in in uh all things being equal, you're never going to get everything right all the time, anyways. And analysis, uh overanalyzing can lead to uh to missing opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

And so to some degree, I do believe in a methodology that uh that has you move fast and break stuff.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

You move fast, you build, you you you launch things, you tell people about it, you hope that they you keep building things, you hope that they use it.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Um, and it does in to some degree you you know you will end up putting a lot of stuff out there that doesn't get adopted or that was a complete mess or a complete failure. And you have to be careful when your resources are are limited, right? Um, and that's where a really strong product team can can play a um a pivotal role, or a uh a technical leader who has product experience, meaning they can do the research and they can find out exactly what your customers are saying about what you've already built. But to some degree, yeah, you're you're gonna have to kind of go on faith a little bit anyway.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

That's great advice.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

And so um, you know, there um there will come a time in the startup world where you need to make the decision to just launch an imperfect product, yeah, get it out there, get people using it, get some feedback and pivot. I have an um another tech startup that um actually my brother runs uh called Parlay, that is a fintech in the B2B space. So it if you essentially what it does is it finance uh allows um in your invoice for a SaaS product. So you want to buy a data visualization or BI tool, and they want to charge you$100,000 upfront. Well, for startups, that's really impossible. Right. Right. You you want the business intelligence, but you can't pay$100,000, but you might be able to pay$10,000. Yeah, that's what this tool does. It's an invoice that that BI tool would send you that allows you to pick to pay upfront or monthly.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Very cool.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

So that's what the company does. But when we started, we've already iterated. We started in April, we've iterated on the tech and the product um weekly.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

And but there we had to take it to market in a somewhat build-it in hope they gum mentality.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Just to be able to get people using it so that we could really find out. Because like research, research, you think you know what you're researching, and you really find out once you start selling it that you don't know half as much as you think you do.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

And if anybody has an idea of a business that they want to start, sell it first. Go out and sell it, even if you don't have it, just go out and start selling it, and you'll find out really quickly what sucks about the idea. Um, because if you start selling it and people aren't buying and you find out why they're not buying, then you can change what you're selling.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Um, and then you can go try to raise money. I I've never done the VC thing. I've uh you know, we we bootstrapped all of our businesses up until um uh early last year, we did a series A around with private equity, um, which you you know of going through all in bootstrapping a business, by the way, is is worth uh you know 10 college degrees. It is you're an accountant, you're a lawyer, you are everything.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

It's all I've ever known. Yeah, it's it's wild.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

It is wild. But um so people who are thinking of going out and raising money off of an idea. This isn't the world to do that in, like go out and sell your business, get people committed to buying your product, and then go raise money.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

I think that's the most important thing. Yeah, I was reading this. Um it was like a Carta had put out the the statistics on tech startups, especially those that are VC backed, um, they're not pretty anyway, right? As far as like the percentage of them that actually succeed. And in 2023, like the the predictions for Q Q4N were just horrific. Right. And And it's um it's part of it. But I I do think that a lot of people I hear kind of wear the badge of you know we raise money. Great, but yeah, I mean it's not bad. It doesn't really mean a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

Um it's yeah, I just probably mean that you've got a business model that doesn't work without someone else's money.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find it really interesting. Uh solar founder advice. I see a lot of solar founders wanting to either like they want to build oftentimes a tech proprietary that maybe kind of already exists in the space. What's your tech take on maybe from a business valuation standpoint, or maybe just you know, from a from a operating your business standpoint, what's your tech or your take on the uh integrate versus build internal?

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah, you know, it's um I get asked this a lot actually. And um my first thing is like if you're gonna do something, do your own thing. Yeah, like make sure what you're doing is is actually yours and new and innovative and adds value. Um you know, there that said, um, you know, integrating versus building, um if you but it all depends on um what you intend to do, right? If your intention is build technology for your own business, for your own solar company, uh if you are a contractor and you want to build technology for your own company, um, what is the ROI like on building versus buying? Do the analysis get the data like both on a on an accrual basis and a cash basis? Because, and know that building something is not a one and done thing. You build you build a version, which is usually a very bad version that needs to be updated, it needs to be fixed, and it is buggy, and it's and it's just not usually great the first time. Right. And then you need and you're gonna spend X, Y, or Z, and that is only a portion of what you're gonna spend. Right. You're also gonna continue spending in perpetuity to add more features and to fix the other features, and then just to maintain it so it doesn't keep breaking because the internet changes, um, your integrations changes, right? Change, uh, design elements change, um, you know, all of the platforms that you're gonna build your business on, those are always changing. And so your code needs to change with it. So you should always be thinking, I'm gonna spend X to build it, and I'm gonna spend 30% of that ongoing just to maintain it, plus whatever I want to spend on top of that to continue to innovate.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

And so if that then no longer makes sense for your business on in your ROI calculations, or does it cash flow the same? That's where you know, those are the decisions to compare apples to apples. Because if you're saying, hey, I think I can do, I'm spending a million dollars a year on this CRM and I could build one for$50,000.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

It's like, no, you're ongoing, nothing ever crossed out.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Ongoing forever. So um data, get the data, do the research, and assume that you are only thinking through a quarter of what it will actually cost and take to do it, and then realize that you are now a software company.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Whether you want it to be, whether you have the experience to be, whether you have the personnel to be that or not, you are a software company. And if you don't treat that department like a software company, it will only drag resources out of your solar company.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

And your solar company ebbs and flows. Software is stagnant, right? It well it ebbs and flows, but your head count is that so now you have instead of a um uh a expense that you can move up and down because it's a third party, now you have fixed costs. And so if your business fluctuates in the winter below, you know, you're now um, you know, it you have to keep that that those expenses through all of that. So it's just a long-term commitment.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

That's really great advice.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

And it and it is not meant to scare anybody away from doing it because my business wouldn't exist if I didn't do that exact same thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

But um the you know, the value in um working with software companies is all of their resources, 100% of their resources, which are typically not unsubstantial, significant resources, going towards solving problems. And if you're trying to solve those same problems, you're probably never going to solve them as well as a company who's really only dedicated to solving that problem. Nor are you going to um uh to be able to keep up with the rapidly changing industry as quickly as you would uh as your competitors who outsource that would. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 49:17

It does, it is, and I love it. I um we recently at Radical uh launched our integration with the solo team. And I I think that you know, listening to that speaks to that for me because, you know, the the the point of sale landscape, solo is is really just such an incredible partner that we were just honored to kind of be part of that process. And it made such perfect sense to us to take, you know, our solution that's super, super unique and connect it in just a really seamless fashion. Um, I'm a big believer in the user experience that you're creating. It's really everything, right? Like architecting that experience. And so I it was truly our first sort of um on this side team, on our dev team side, um, it was our first uh execution of that process. And it was so seamless. It was beautiful. Our teams work together, and and I think, you know, the build process itself between our well-documented you know APIs was just like maybe two weeks or so from start to finish. And it's beautiful. I mean, it's just it's so wonderful. And and you know, that that concept of finding really strong, well-aligned partners and being able to bring together, you know, the best of what everyone can provide and putting together a unique offering, it gets me really excited because I just think there's you know a lot of fragmented pieces still in Solar that we're doing today and a lot of people looking to solve for kind of a siloed piece. But uh for our perspective, it looks like Solos getting into more and more sort of of the of the landscape here and looking to kind of expand on offerings. Do you want to touch on that?

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Yeah, our our vision for uh our product is to have an end-to-end solution. Um, we acquired um a uh very robust CRM um that we are integrating uh all of the solo products into to allow um users of that CRM a end-to-end customer experience from lead demand gen, lead gen, you know, point of sale, um site surveys, uh permitting, engineering, um, procurement, uh, scheduling, um customer uh relationship management long-term, long tail monitoring, all of it. And um, and then layering through all of it AI to um predict and automate a lot of those processes so that um customers are always in the loop. Sales reps are always in the loop. Um, you know, permits are submitted instantly as soon as you know the cat is approved, right? It's things like that that cost time and time cost money and resources of of headcounting people that that um require um you know that that ultimately um talk to the the kind of that lean startup mentality of you know how do you do more with less. Right. And you know, that's where you know the the kind of um the future of our technology is leading towards more and more um you know predictive modeling and predictive um uh analytics to give people a better direction on uh on how to drive their business as well as uh on where to sell and who to sell to and um and how to sell, how sales reps can be more effective in each sale and how to line up each sales rep with the right customer so that they're have the highest likelihood of closing the deal.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

So cool.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

So there's a lot of things that we are are getting um ready to deliver over the next couple of years that will be um disruptive, uh, that are just future versions of uh of where we are today. We I look at it similar to the NASA missions where each mission had a very specific purpose, and none of them until Apollo were to land on the moon. They were all well. This mission is really just to get this function of that mission to work.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

And we had 11 different, you know, uh launches into space just to focus on making sure that we can disconnect and then reconnect um in space uh so that a man can go from the rocket to the man at that point, you know. So um those types of things that uh allow you know the um innovation in a given direction towards that vision over time um in a in a controlled environment so that we can release little by little all of the pieces and building blocks until, you know, uh if we do it right, you know, here in you know, over the next year or two, the that consumer experience will be so seamless that you know that that GNA function of your business as well as you know the uh SM function of your business, uh which combine add up to, you know, in a lot of you know, a lot of businesses over$2 a watt can shrink to, I don't know, pennies a watt. It's yeah, it is and then all you have to really focus on is can the sales rep close the deal?

SPEAKER_00 54:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

And how quickly can I get the equipment to the home with the crew? Because yeah, AI can't replace the you know the solar goats out there that are putting glass on roof.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

So um that is uh gonna be a core function of of what we're building is is try to take every single end-to-end function and add as much um efficiency as possible. You know, speed of light operations is that's what solo stands for is can we can we create that end-to-end? So yeah, we are we're definitely expanding through the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

That is so cool. I love the vision. Um, I have buy-in for sure. I think it's uh very on point. Timing's great. I feel like it's a very needed solution, and solo has always been leading the charge and paving the way in new and innovative solutions that have served the solar industry. So expect nothing less and excited to kind of watch it come together.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Same here. I've honestly I've loved our friendship, by the way. I'm a huge fan. Um, I I was uh on the sidelines watching, you know, what uh what happened um a few years ago, and and I saw that as a lesson that you have that very few people have that creates so much so much wisdom and experience that nobody really wants to have. And you did it with grace and and uh you have created from it a really awesome opportunity with Radical in a very cool niche.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

And we're glad to be integrated. Um, you know, a partnership like this will will really help um you know a lot of these solar startups and solar uh companies at any scale um offload a process that uh either they're skipping and they shouldn't, um, or that they probably don't do well and they need to. Yeah. Um and you know, radical can definitely change the game for that.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

So thank you. Thank you. Yeah, we're definitely honored and super excited to see where the integration and the path kind of takes us. But have learned a ton from you in the past, excited to continue learning. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 57:10

Yeah, thanks for having me.