Episode 10: Turning the Tide With Jake Kilgore

Join us for the season finale of Blind Ambition as we chat with Jake Kilgore, CEO of 1Solar. This episode covers not only the business aspects of the solar industry but also delves into Jake's personal struggles and victories. Learn about his transformation from dark times and incarceration to becoming a successful leader in solar energy, driven by resilience and determination.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome everybody to today's episode of Blind Ambitions Podcast. I have a great friend of mine with me here today who this has actually been a long time coming. Jake Kilgore, the CEO founder of OneSolar, who is a company that I have a ton of respect for if you're in the solar industry. I know you know the name. Thanks for joining me, Jake.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Thanks, Abby.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Tell me, uh, before we get too much into the weeds here, how are things on the One Solar Front? How are you feeling about the industry right now?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Wow, that's that's gonna be a tough floated question, but I've said it now for the past three quarters, so nine months. And I thought it was gonna last like six months of these like the dark ages, dark times. It's really kind of a dark time in solar. It's been it's been tough. I would say the last two months, we've turned a corner where I'm sleeping a little better.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Things are running better, smoother. Um, for us personally uh as a company in solar, it it took us longer to really figure out and dial in, moving from a loan business and processing high quality of loans and installs to you know the majority of our business being TPO or third-party owned products. So learning that part of the fulfillment process, the cash flow side of that um has taken longer than I've wanted to. But uh we got her, we got her dialed in in the last couple of months have been um really, really good, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

That's great. I feel like that is word for word what everyone is saying that I'm talking up to right now. It's like of all the things that could happen in a crazy tumultuous time, throwing TPO in as an installer is quite the fun little dance, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Yeah, it it it really on paper, it seems easy. Yeah. You just someone gets qualified for a loan, you get a permit, you get the material, you go install. Right. Uh, but it's so much more than that. And so yeah, it took us, we've been now, we've now been doing TPO for 17 months.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

And I would say we really didn't figure it out and get good at it until like three or four months ago. Yeah. Like really good at it. Um, and I think part of that was for 10 years, we ran a business that was 90% loans and 10% cash. So you install a job, you get some photos, and you market complete, and the funds, 100% of the funds, hit my account tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

And that's just cash is just coming in every single day in chunks. And now the business has, you know, multiple stage payments, or your stuff has to be reviewed and can be rejected. And so, yeah, it's it's we've had to staff in multiple positions and put in quality control and kind of these stop points throughout the fulfillment process that we never had before. So we finally have turned the corner and it it feels really good.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

That's awesome. I know that I've already given you a little bit of praise for being an incredible company in this space, but you really should and your entire team should feel really, really great about hanging in there through all of this. I know that there's, I mean, watching some of these companies go out and some of the biggest ones even recently was a gut check even for me. I mean, just watching it. I know everybody is in a little bit of that dark space right now. You and I have the pleasure of being on the board for the Residential Solar Association together, which um is a really, really rewarding experience, has been for me for sure. What would you say are some of the things, your takeaways? We get a we get a really unique perspective, sort of a bird's eye view to what's happening in a lot of the challenges in the space, who I'm sure, you know, very similar to your own and those that I see. What would you say um are some of the lean-ins that you're taking from that experience and how you're plugging that in in the next, say, 18 months or so at one?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

I mean, I have learned so much from the great leaders on the board and the members that we're associated with, and we get to communicate with them weekly. Um, I mean, I've gained so much selfishly, you know, personally as a CEO and owner of a business that I'm gaining from all of our friends and colleagues inside the RSA. And so I feel like my answer is more jaded towards that, or like selfishly saying, hey man, like I love working with all the other CEOs who I actually compete with. Right. And I think that's awesome. And I think that we should be doing that more because I'm I mean, I posed the question the other day to um CEO president of a large lender in the space. And I said, who is winning today in solar? Who's winning? Right. Manufacturers, distributors, lenders, installers, software companies. And it was a long conversation because we were just trying to figure out who's winning in solar right now. That's a good question. And it the answer really came down to if you are surviving, you're winning. That is who's winning in solar, and that's kind of where the bar is set today. Right. Because it's been so treacherous, it's been so difficult for the past 18 months, and we're seeing that with our friends, like our dear friends, uh just sand falling between their fingers, trying to hold on to their companies, dealing with, you know, volume or cash flow, whatever they're dealing with. And uh it's unfortunate that we're describing the industry that way today, that surviving is winning, but that that's kind of how some people are saying it. And I think that's some of the stuff that I'm gaining from the RSA is like you've you've got to be open-minded. You have to be able to speak about your financials and speak about the way you're positioned inside the industry and trust those that you're communicating with and really looking at your business totally differently than you've ever looked at it before.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

I love that. There's so much value found in putting heads together with other business owners in the space. And I think that our industry for far too long has been very anti-collaboration, and nothing makes me happier to see that finally pivoting. Unfortunately, it's during a dark time, but sometimes it's what it takes, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

I want to shift gears here a little bit because I've been so excited, friend to friend, to congratulate you on your really big news. So you took third place. This is overall, right? Third place in the Tahoe 200, which is a 200-mile, I don't want to describe it. You you fill in 200 miles. That in itself is just completely mind-boggling for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Well, thank you. First of all, I mean, it was um, yeah, I've I've been trail running and and running ultras now for I don't know. I did my first couple ultras in like 2015 and 16. Took a little two-year break, we'll talk about. But then I've really kind of the last five, six years kind of leaned into to the to the races. And I love a good mountain race with lots of climbing and just being out there for 50 miles, 100 miles. And then two years ago, I got this weird itch to be like, I should put in for the lottery because this the Tahoe 200 is a lottery. And I put my name in thinking I'm not gonna get drawn out. Like, of course I get drawn out, and I'm like, great, oh crap, like real. So I ended up deferring, so I didn't race last year.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

And I was like, I'll do it next summer, which was June 2024. And yeah, I I just the whole goal was just to finish. Like, this is 200 miles, it's not twice as hard as a hundred miler. It's like three or four times harder.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

It's intense.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

So this is 200 miles through mountainous terrain, not just a flat.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah. And in my opinion, you know, Tahoe, if you haven't been, it is the most beautiful place in the United States. Like I pick it over Hawaii. Hawaii, you know, but Lake Tahoe, um, the big alpine lake, the mountains, the pines, like it's the trail system, like the whole thing is just beautiful. And it was like, if I'm gonna do 200 miles, like I'm not picking the desert. So yeah, I picked Tahoe, drew out, and yeah, it's it's uh 38,000 feet of vertical climbing. Whoa. Um, with it my ended up being about 208 miles. But yeah, however, your watch calculates it, 200 plus miles. Um and yeah, it was like probably the coolest experience I've ever had um athletically for sure.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Oh, that's so incredible. I uh was watching your social media like a hawk. I you had at one point where your was it your daughter that was managing the updates? I was just kind of falling in love with the whole process. I love the way that you documented it. But the video of you just coming across, like it gets me a little bit emotional. The video of you just coming across, like, it wasn't crazy, man. This is insane. I just can't even, I can't get off of that, the number of 200 miles. I can't even fathom it.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yeah, the video you're yeah, that you're talking about when I crossed the finish lines 9 45 at night. This is the third night. So it's I finished in just under 61 hours. I'm crossing the finish line. And that video, I have watched it 50 times and I tear up every time I watch it. Does it tear you up?

SPEAKER_02 9:30

I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. That's incredible. So where does the running come from? So something that like where where does it stem from? Why do you run? What does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Uh, I mean, I've always enjoyed athletics. I've always I'm just naturally competitive, you know, my siblings or with, you know, growing up with them and playing sports and basketball and soccer. And I ran track um as a kid. And I don't know. I got I I got in I I kind of just always wanted to run the Boston marathon. Just in the back of my mind, was like, yeah, one day like that'd be cool to try to qualify for Boston one day. And I did that. Um, it took me like three years to get fast enough to qualify. I did that, and then I was like, okay, I'm bored. Like road running is boring. And I love road running, I love marathons. But after three years of like really trying to get my fastest and run this iconic Boston marathon, I did that and I ran it a couple times, and then towards the end of that, like last year, I started running on the trails. But honestly, like I really embraced the trail running scene and the ultra scene because of what I was personally going through and what my family was going through, and um, you know, when I was being investigated and eventually prosecuted and indicted by the federal government. But I was like, you know, I really kind of just leaned into the therapeutic side of being in the mountains and in the trails. And that's kind of what pushed me to really spend some time there versus like you know, a lot of people that get put in those situations um are being prosecuted and going through their crap in their life, they'll turn to pornography or drugs or alcohol, right? Or you name the vice. Right. And fortunately for me, I just grew up athletic and loved the drive of trying to push my body to do hard things, and I turned to the mountains and the trails, and that's kind of where I've found the passion and love for it.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

That is amazing. And I love that you gave me such a perfect segue here because there's been one reason that I've been fascinated with your story. And we've known each other for a while. I've I've been, you know, good friends and and talked on the surface about solar, but there's been so many times I've wanted to dig deeper and hear more about this story. So today is my day. But you, in short, were incarcerated and spent time in prison. And this stemmed from launching your business. And I don't want to tell the story for you, but I want to place it in time here. So, what year is this? I guess kick us off with starting OneSolar. What year was that?

SPEAKER_01 12:15

We started One Solar in I created the entity in like the spring of 2014. Yeah. And then and then the fall of 2014, we were doing our first jobs. So 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Was this your first stab at being an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_01 12:37

No. So I was uh the owner, I was one of seven partners. I was the second largest shareholder and the vice president of a medical equipment company.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

And that that's the company where I we went, you know, the company was being investigated. I was investigating. Um, I was named a target of the investigation. So but yeah, I I became a partner in business owner of that business in 2003.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

So, like a year after college, two years after college, this new company was started. They hired me as their very first ever sales rep. And I I grew the sales team, we grew the company together. Um, over the course of five years, there eventually became seven owners of the business. And we were the second largest um distributor of motorized wheelchairs in the entire country. And not a single uh owner was 30 years old yet.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

So we were achieving unreal things. We were in 20 to 24 states nationally, we were very big, grew very fast. And yeah, and then one day I went to work, walked in my office, and the FBI raided our office. Whoa. That's when it all right. My whole world changed.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Take us from that point. So FBA raids, FBI raids, and where does your story take you from there?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

So it's 2011, February of 2011. Um, regular day at the office, you know, and um yeah, so the FBI raids, um, and and everything literally comes crashing down within 48 hours. I'm named a target of the investigation, which is never a good sign. Um, me and a couple others, some sales managers. And within 60 days, so so that's February, July, January 1st. I'll back up just 30 days before that. I I was named the new CEO.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Whoa.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

So I was the vice president for however many years, eight years, and then became the new CEO.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

So I'm 30 days into this first time ever being a CEO, and the company gets blind.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

How's that for some timing? And how old are you at this point?

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Um I don't know, two.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

You're like, I don't know how old I am now. 32. Wow, okay. Yeah, super young CEO, first time. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Two days two days before my 33rd birthday, I think, something like that. Okay. And um, yeah, I end up 60 days later, like resigning from the company. Being pushed out slash resigning. It's one of those sure. It's one of those, oh yeah, he resigned, but no, like you're yeah, no one just resigns from their brand new job. Like you're resigning slash you're getting pushed out.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

And so um, yeah, I went, that's when I jumped into the energy efficiency world. I started selling and managing and overseeing sales and operations, um, doing solar hot water and energy efficiency with my brother. So we were doing you know, insulation and radiant barrier and solar hot water. Did that for two, two and a half years while my other life I'm hired an attorney and I'm fighting the federal government for two to three years that whole time period from 2011 to 2014.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

And so yeah, those those three years, um, yeah, super, super, super tough years.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

I don't think people realize how slow the world, the legal world moves, like three years' time of just probably gut-wrenching stress and not having any clue what was gonna happen next, right? Did you think were you optimistic at that point or were you?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Um I mean, we were we were always optimistic, you know. I mean, I think that's kind of the only the only mindset that I have in a lot of ways running my business or trail running or in that case, you know, being investigated by the feds. And um, you know, it was two and a half years before I was actually indicted.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Which is quite rare, actually. You kind of a lot of people get investigated and then like they're quickly indicted. Um but yeah, it took them two and a half years to bring down an indictment, and that's when everything hit the news and the radio and the internet, and like my whole world flipped upside down again.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Um but you know, you kind of just you take it in stride and you gotta just trust the process, trust the people you're with, and really just keep keep grinding. And that's that was shortly after that, was when I started One Solar. And I just I knew that I had, you know, roughly one year to create a business that could provide for my family, and that at least one year from now I'm gonna be in trial for 45 to 60 days.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Eight to ten hours a day, and I and I needed a business that would provide for my family. Um ended up pleading guilty just a week or two before trial. And then it took another six or seven months to be sentenced, and then I self-surrendered uh to prison at that point. So I ended up running one solar with a couple partners for 18 months, and then I was gone for two, two and a half years.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

What a crazy concept that is to think you've got a year to figure out how to provide for your family, create something that can generate value while you're gone. And most people in that situation, I think, probably wouldn't think of I'm going to build a business with some friends. And it's gonna and it's you got a 12-month ramp. Like a lot of people build businesses and don't expect them for them to ever turn any sort of value for the first three years.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

That's wild. That is like risk, that is the coolest and craziest risk.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

When you phrase it that way, it's like, yeah, that's that kind of blows my mind when I think about it that way. But tell you what, when when you're going through that level of stress, I don't know that you're actually ever really thinking clearly. You're just like one day at a time, man. Like this whole you know, next aid station mentality that my family and I like live by.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

It's like I just gotta get to the end of the week. You just I gotta one week at a time, one day at a time. And next thing you know, like you've accumulated all this time behind you, and you've used your time the best you can. And you know, we kind of use the whole prison sentence that way too, and like just being gone for that amount of time. And you know, now that I'm home and it's behind me, it's like there's kind of this piece of me that's like still trying to make up for lost time.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah, I'm sure. I think people underestimate the value of living in survival mode and the quick thinking and like decision-making ability that it sort of forces you into. I feel like so many of my experiences of business have not been for funsies. They've been kind of with a gun to my head. And a lot of people were like, why would you do that again? I kind of go, you you you don't really think of it, I think, in normal terms once you've kind of been down that road. But I think that's fascinating. And I think what did your, I have to ask, what did your wife feel of that decision right there that you're gonna start a business? And like how how was the situation there at home with your family?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Oh my gosh. Uh so Brady and I have been together now. We know this this year we'll celebrate our 24th anniversary.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Congrats, that's big.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

We met in high school, so we've been together since 1996. So 28 years, you know. That's wild. So we've kind of unfortunately, fortunately, I don't want to say seen it all, but be careful what you say. Yeah, exactly. Been through a lot. Yeah. And she's incredibly supportive and trusting um in like uh my work ethic or decision making, or um really she has a really incredible, like intuitive feeling of like who you should and shouldn't go into business with, or who you should partner with, or who she reads uh personalities and people differently than I do. And she's uh been spot on so many times with things like that that like she is really just a great support in in that sense.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

I feel like I would love her.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

She's amazing that way. And so, like, I don't know, I think it just kind of like organically happened over over time where it was like, if we're gonna do this, like we need to do it now.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

And we was just kind of collectively together, was like, yeah, we let's do it. It's time. Like we just need we need to do this. Buckle up, like it's now or never. Who knows what the future holds. Right. And it was tough because in those years, you know, 2011 to 2018, like you we really couldn't make a lot of decisions that were for the future.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

We you don't it we didn't know where we would be. Well, are you gonna be in trial? Are you gonna be in prison? Are you gonna go away for 10 years? Are you gonna we couldn't make decisions and so but that was one that we were like we have to do this now and we can do it now and we'll have partners and you know if we end up going away and they can help run the business and you can, you know, like it was just it was just it's weird. It just like organically happened. It's amazing, and you know, we kind of fought through and did it together.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

That's amazing. So how much how long was your sentence again? Sixty months, sixty months, oof.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

So yeah, ended up being about two and a half years of like total time, and that was time served, yeah. So it's all so I was gone for two years almost exactly. Wow, and then I had six months of home confinement. Okay, so I was still under the Bureau of Prisons, the I was still under BOP um watch or whatever it's called. I was on like their watch essentially for six months. So I had to report to them every single week. Every hour of my day had to be accounted for one week in advance. Wow. So I came home and my business did four installs that month.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

And I was like, we had less than 10 employees, like a hundred when I left. And I'm like, well So it's alive, but it's barely hanging in. It's alive. And the people that stuck around, I felt like I owed it to them because they ran the business with my wife while I was gone and that provided a living for my family. And we had six months left on our lease. And I was like, Well, I gotta give it at least six months. Like I owe that to them to at least give it every six months, and the six months was the exact amount of time I had left on my BOP time.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

And so I'm trying to run this company while also reporting to the halfway house.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

While also telling them where I'll be a week in advance. And I had a flip phone and I just started calling. I pulled a report out of QuickBase of every sales rep that had ever sold a deal for us. And I just started calling them off a flip phone.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Hold on, I have to ask a question because I was I was actually competing with you at the time. Yeah. And I just remember, so this is my perspective of that time. You just totally sparked memory because I forgot this happened. But I remember my phone one day just erupting, blowing up with everybody screenshotting and sending me this text message of something about a red line. I don't even remember the text. It was something like a dollar 90 red line and something. And it was, who is one solar? Who is texting all of these people? This red line and all of my reps were like, match it or I'm leaving. And I was like, what is happening? Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

It was I never shared that story. I drove, I drove to the bottom. This was all Jake Kilgory here. It's my fault. It's my fault.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Um, those I actually like miss those days so much. Those were such good days. Um, there were some people I didn't love competing with. You were a fun one to compete with because I had so much respect for you. And I don't want to get too far ahead. I don't want to get too far ahead, but that was really funny because I remember that live time going down. So this the the end of the story here is that you you grinded it out. Like you did everything you needed to do. And one solar obviously fast forward to today is thriving.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Yeah, so I I um I made some dumb comment to a couple of my executives like 30 days after I'd been home, and I was like, we're gonna do you know, X amount of sales by August. I can't remember what it was, it was like a hundred.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

And he's like, no way. And we made this like side bet, and then we hit it like in July. So we you know, we just took off summer of 2018, and that's when we flipped our whole business model from everything being internal sales, like harvesting the lead and doing all the marketing and then closing it in-house to this new dealer EPC model that like spawned out of nowhere while I was in prison. I was, I came home, what is this crap? Like, I this is stupid. I'm not no, I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_04 26:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

But the whole industry had gone there in a fast way, aggressively. And I was like, I guess all right, we gotta do that.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

I was sim swimming in the thick of it.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah, and here we are, you know, and it was like, so yeah, we flipped the model and learned how to just we we at that point, it was like a big decision for me. I was like, well, do I want to be on the sales side or do I want to be on the install side? Because at that point I could have just picked either side, but I felt like our strength and the core leadership group of my company and the true asset holding value of the solar industry was on the install side. And I was like, Yeah, I'm playing the long game.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Good on you.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

And I think I need we need to go where our strengths are, and we're gonna be do all the fulfillment and be an installer in in our markets.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

And we did that.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

I love it. So gonna ask a tough one here, but what was the experience like in prison? What was what was maybe the darkest time? I'm sure it was a lot of roller coaster, but pretty much all just terrible, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Uh I mean, yeah, I can find you some silver linings, I'm sure, but um I mean, the darkest, the toughest times. Um I think that the longest days, can you call it? Like the longest times were the little moments of like you know, I had a my son was born three years before I left. He turned three on June 8th, and I self-surrendered on June 9th. So we kind of got to pick that date with the judge. So I specifically picked it so I wouldn't miss his birthday.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

So we had his birthday, and then I went to prison like the next day. And so I think the toughest, darkest moments were like things that I can never get back, moments like my son learned to ride a bike without me. Um my daughter's dance recitals, because I'm like a super committed, like I don't miss my kids' things, I don't miss them. And so when I'm missing, you know, a spelling bee, or I'm missing a dance recital or a cheer competition, um, my son's first T-ball game. So I'm missing these things that like I can't even my wife has videos and pictures of all like of all these things, and I still can't watch videos of my son when he was four or five years old, three, four, or five. Because I'm like, I I wasn't there, I know I wasn't there, and I miss those years. And so with my daughters, it's kind of that same thing. Like my daughter went to junior high, she went from elementary to junior high, and then my other daughter made the cheer team, and I I didn't get to be there for those. So those were the hardest times. That was so hard because you find ways to keep yourself busy in there, like or at least I did, like I was really busy, and like I got my master's degree. I taught GED in Spanish, like I speak fluent Spanish, so I taught the GED class and I helped other inmates obtain their GED. That's awesome. And like I studied for two years and got my master's degree. Like, I tried to just like be super productive. I worked out like twice a day and I did all this stuff, you know. Wow. That's just to like pass time. But in the back of your mind, like you're getting these letters, or you have a phone call with your family, and like you only get 15 minutes on a phone call, but you can only do that like 20 times a month because you only get so many minutes.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

So when you're on the phone, I've got my wife and four kids. There's five people on the phone, and I got 15 minutes. Everyone gets three minutes, and then I'll talk to you in two days and I'll read your email. Like that, that's the that was that that's the tough stuff. That's the hard, hard stuff. I had a couple really, really close people to me pass away while I was there. So I would say one of the very, very darkest times. So I have one sister. Her husband was diagnosed with cancer, brain cancer, turmobrain cancer. And he passed away 60 days after I went to prison. So like I missed the funeral and the viewing and the mourning, and like it's still even this many years later, 2016, eight years later, almost to the day, next month will be eight years. But I still never received like full closure.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

And so that's still really hard for me. So like that's a moment and a day or days that were really, really dark for me, where moments like that were like I would give anything, anything in that moment to like hug my sister.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Oh sure. You know, and the powerlessness.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yeah, like had a dear, dear friend whose son tragically passed away at 15 years old. And like I would would have done anything in that moment to like hug his parents. So those are things that are like the darkest moments when you just you just can't be there. There's nothing you can do that's gonna put you in front of them or with them or mourn with them. Yeah. So those are those are tough.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

I think everybody probably wonders and thinks that they know what they would be like in that situation. You know, like I'd definitely get my master's degree and I would teach GED in Spanish. But I sometimes I have this voice in the back of my mind, like, I would probably be in a puddle crying, sunup, sundown. I don't know. That's it's hard to fathom. That's crazy. So you're out, you're back, you're grinding it out at one solar. I am sure that you probably had to overcome a whole lot of stigmas in the space of running a business and people that you partnered with. And I'm sure there was like no shortage of that. Talk to me about how you how you faced those and getting through the stigma.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

That is a great question and and something to bring up because it we've built a great business, and I say we because I've got some great my executive team, uh, my wife, and and you know, like we just have such a great environment and culture and company, but there is not a week that goes by that my background does not get brought up.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Really?

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Still every single week. And the more successful the business becomes the less it means to people. They're able to like look past it, like, oh well, it's fine, we can look past it. But that's not always the case. Um it happens so often. In fact, the last I can brush it off now. Like I I brushed it off. I knew that when I was in prison, I knew that it was going to be this obstacle that I would have to overcome all the time.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

And it happened instantly when I got home. And it still, even though I prepped for it, really, really bothered me. And I would say nine times out of ten, it doesn't bother me. It's like, hey, I address it head on, right? It's all over my social. I talk about it on my podcast. I wrote a book, like I'm so open about it.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

That it's like, if you don't know about it, that's on you.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

And if you don't want to do business with me, that's fine. I'll do business with him or her. And it's funny because the more successful the business comes gets, they're like, oh no, no, it's fine. Like, but that's not, that's usually not the that has not been the case always. And so we've had to work like extra hard.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

To almost like prove that we're legit or prove that that's not me, dude.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Like, yeah, I hadn't really thought of it that way.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

And it um I had I had a run in a run-in with it um just a few months ago, and I have not spoken to that person since. And I'm like, we've been in business together for a year, and you're bringing this up like it's some thing, and I'm like, I you know, it's fine. That you know, right, and so it it comes and goes, but um, yeah, there are days where it stings and it really pisses me off, and it really like brings up the anger, I'm sure, like these PTSD feelings from the past. But like I said, nine times out of ten, it's just like brush it off, laugh about it, joke about whatever it is, however you cope. Um, but yeah, I've I've always I would say for the last I mean ever since it happened, when I created the when we created the company, it was being brought up. In fact, when I came back, it was coming up all the time. And that the text message that you reference, you know, things like that, those typically would follow up with who's who's one solar, who's who's this, and it'd be like, oh yeah, yeah, he's the guy that went to prison. It usually would be followed up with that.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Like, oh yeah, well, he did this. And so it be it was tough because even in the home, reps would be in competitive bidding, competitive bidding situations. And the other rep, competing rep, would tell the homeowner, oh yeah, if you want to go with them, like their owner went to prison. Oh my gosh. And so they would get deals because of that. Um, I know that I've been treated differently by distribution or lending, or really, I know for a fact I've lost millions and millions and millions of dollars of revenue to sales groups that were persuaded not to come with OneSolar because whoever they went with was like, oh, did you know?

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

And so it's uh it's it's something that um we all of OneSolar has just said, hey, that's our identity, that's who we are, it's what it is. Like, either do business with us or don't. If you're not going to get out of the way. Like we don't care.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

I love your team. That's so cool. Yeah. I don't you think people are interesting though, the there's like this herd mentality too with the uh with acceptance of other people. I think for the solar industry was interesting for me because when I came into it as an outsider, I felt like everybody in solar knew everyone. And then you start to hear the don't work with this person because of this, or this person is shady, or this person has this reputation. And at first you kind of went, Oh gosh, there's this, you know, something I didn't know. And for the record, I actually did not even know about your history until we were on the board at the RSA together. So it's a super total shock. Like neighborhoods. I'm like, I gotta know this story. This is so fascinating. Um, I just love comeback stories, and yours is obviously the coolest. Oh, so cool. So, you know, when when people would sort of warn me about doing business with one another, you know, everybody sort of has their bad blood. And I I like to think that I didn't, you know, I've never really put too much weight on some of those things, but it wasn't until I went through a situation after Empire and sort of the the legal eruption that happened afterwards, right? And and the person that came in and bought Empire and bought the business was doing everything he could to trash my reputation and pin all sorts of things. And I had never been in that situation before where I had to defend my integrity. And I thought, people know me. I mean, everybody sees the same version of me. I wouldn't have to defend myself. People will know this is silly. And that wasn't the case at all. I was, I had horrible hate mail sent to my home with my children opening up the mail, calling me horrific things. I had just complete attacks online. And I was just so shocked at the power of people love a gritty bad story. They just love it. I don't know what it is, and they love to expand on it. And so I found it really interesting as I went back into business. And this is, I feel like my my tiny little way that I can relate to you and why I feel this pain for you so much. But I went back into business, I had all of those thoughts. Will my team feel like they can work for me again? Or will they worry that maybe I was being sued for fraud for some astronomical number? And it was all nonsense, but people can sue you for anything they want to. And I didn't know that at the time. As long as you have a lawyer, uh, you know, litigator on staff, you can do those things. And so, you know, I felt that weight of having to clear my name, knowing it would be years of some of those things. And, you know, you worry about the employees and you worry about other people wanting to do business with you. And at first there was this weird stigma I felt in every room I walked in where people kind of went, did something happen? Did she really do something, you know, bad? And as of course, you know, the the legal, you know, pieces run their course and and nothing kind of came of it and everything was really cleared. People wanted to do business with me again. And it was like this weird herd mentality where you're kind of like, oh, you're safe now. And then you just feel like the warmth. And I don't, for me, it was really hard to not have a chip on my shoulder about that. Like if you, you know, aren't willing to sort of stay by my side through tough times, you really see that so much of that is just kind of I don't know, it's it's spinnicky. It's like you you the the the love and you know, partnership with people can be just um paper thin sometimes. Is that the way to put it?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Yeah, absolutely it can be. And I I think I think your experience is is is yours, and you get to decide like how you respond to that and what is your why? Like, why are you going back into business and why are you going back into solar? And like I get to do that as well every single day, and I get to choose like how I respond to those. And it's like, oh yeah, did you Google them? It's like you Google me, it's like two pages of dot gov. Like you can't, or dot D O J, like you can't have enough like SEO to bury it, to bury you know, a Department of Justice page. Right, right. So like you just gotta like for me, it was just okay, well, that's my why. Like, I am gonna go to work every single day and prove all these guys wrong. I love that. And if you don't want to do business with me today, like when you call me back in six months or in a year or whatever, like it's gonna be different.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Things change. And so, like for me, that kind of became like the motivation for me, for my team, for my family, like for the group. It was like, no, we don't care. Like, there's there's enough out there for everybody. And if that's our identity and how they're gonna like pitch against us, that's not gonna last forever. And so, you know, we've we've taken it like personally almost like that's a great reason to go out and compete and and really prove them wrong. And if that's your motivation, great, like absorb it, harness it.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

I love it. Were there any moments during that process that you did feel completely defeated? The comeback process?

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Uh no. Um I love your take on that.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

I love the grit. It's like, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah, uh, I would say the last six years, no, I've never felt like defeated, like this isn't gonna work. I don't what am I doing? There are definitely moments um in behind closed doors, silently, where I do question, like, what am I doing, man? Like, is this really like what I was born to do? Like, is this really and then I take a step back and I'm like, who am I kidding? Like, I've been running my own company for how long? I can't go work for somebody. Right. I am unemployable. So in a joking way, it's like, no, like, I no, I've got to do this. And and it goes all the way back to like the group, the group that stuck with me. And I'm so committed to them because of what the way they were committed and devoted to me and my family while I was gone. Like, I'm forever just like indebted. And like my original install team, the four guys that I started the company with that were my first install crew, that's my executive team today.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Like they the four of them account for thousands of installs, and they run the entire operations of our company. And you know, they were there through thick and thin this whole time. They've and you know, they're they're just unbelievable individuals that were like, no, this is what I need to be doing. Like, I'm here, we're here, this is what we're doing until we're not doing it together.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Talk about bleeding for your company. That's incredible. What a cool story. I got a couple questions here to wrap us up. What uh what message do you hope that your story sends to other people who maybe feel like they are trapped by their circumstances?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

You can't you can't let a circumstance define you. You can't be a victim of circumstance. In prison, there are a lot of individuals in there who I would describe as victims of circumstance. Meaning they didn't get an opportunity to even go to school. They were dealing drugs at the age of twelve. Their parents have done prison time, their grandparents were in prison and were murdered. Like they're true victims of circumstance. And it takes a lot for a generational impact to like flip the switch and go the the other direction. Yeah. Um, and so to anyone in in situations where they feel like they're being judged by their circumstances or going through their own personal hell, you gotta take it one day at a time. And it's this next aid station as an ultra runner. All I focus on in that Tahoe 200, I never ever focused on, oh my gosh, I am not gonna be to that finish line until Sunday or maybe even Monday. The race starts at 9 a.m. Friday. And the only thing I'm thinking about is the aid station that's 15 miles away. That's it. That's as far as I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

And I'm going to that aid station. I'm gonna refuel. I'm gonna get my pack filled up. I'm gonna eat and get more water. I might even change my socks or change my shoes, and it's off to the next one. And that's another 15 miles, or maybe it's 19 miles. Maybe it's a shorter uh segment, it's nine miles. But to me, anyone in those situations, they've got to find what is the next aid station for them. Where am I going? And maybe in business, you're in this circumstance where like, dude, I just can't turn my business around. Like, I can't get on top of the cash. Yeah. Or I'm servicing this debt and I just can't turn the corner.

SPEAKER_04 45:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

And I would say the same thing to them. And it's it, it's you've got to find the aid stations and place them out there and just get there. Stop worrying about when you're gonna be to the finish line, if it's gonna be Sunday or Monday, and I know your ankle hurts and your knees swollen up and things hurt, and this sucks. Just just get to payroll, just get past this first payroll, and we're gonna worry about it on Monday. Get past the next payroll, and you'll be fine. And so, you know, I think that sometimes we try to eat the elephant in one bite, and you gotta take it one bite at a time, and and and your circumstance is is no different. Um, you're trying to get through a messy divorce and your custody over kids, and just those types of things. Like, you've got to take it one day at a time because looking too far down the road will only cause discouragement, failure, I'm gonna quit.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

And that's where people get going down a bad path that just leads to really, really bad place. And so I just really encourage people to like break down their circumstance into bite sizes and take it, take it one step at a time.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

I love that. Your entire story screams self-empowerment and fight and grit and all the things that are my very, very favorite. You already gave a great answer to this, but I want to land with one more piece of advice because the wisdom you're sharing, I think, is just incredible. So, somebody that's out there, maybe they're sitting in a legitimate cell, or maybe they're sitting in a metaphorical cell, but they're dreaming of a different life. What's your one piece of advice?

SPEAKER_01 47:24

They're dreaming of a different life. Why can't you have it? You know, my parents raised me that way. Um and I've always believed it. But I love that. If you want something, then go and get it. What are you doing sitting here just dreaming about it? Go do it. Go do it. It's not, it's gonna take a lot of work or a lot of time. And I I my wife and I try to raise our kids the same way, you know. My oldest daughter dreamed since she was eight years old that she was gonna live in Hawaii. And we always embraced it and said, Great, if that's what you want to do, go do it. She graduates high school and she goes and finds an apartment and she moves out there and she gets a job and she buys a car, and she's now headed out there in another month or two for like her second year in a row. Like, just go do it. Do all she's doing. It's a simple concept. Yeah, like online college. You can do online Weber State and live in Hawaii. I constantly tell people in my team at my company, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Some people figured out that you actually can. And so, you know, my my son fully believes he's gonna play in the NBA. Well, who am I to say he's not?

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Right. Okay, you are. I love it. Let's embrace it. I could not agree more with you, honestly. I think that is the best perspective, especially as a parent. Like the the empowerment you're gifting to your kids through that outlook is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Just embrace it and like get up and go do it. If that's what you want to do, go do it. If you want to run a hundred miles, Abby, I'll help you. We're gonna do that conversation. No, all you have to do is say, I don't want to. I don't want to do that. See? It's that easy. If you don't people, I get that question like, how do you run a hundred a hundred miles? One step at a time, I guess. I you know, I just want to, so I do. So if you want to do something, go do it. That's my voice.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

So good. That's so good. Jake, this has been incredible. Thank you for giving us your time and your energy and all your good vibes.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Thanks for having me, Abby.