History: Exploring Native American Storytelling with Amy Bluemel

What if history isn’t just something we remember, but something we carry, share, and keep alive through stories?  Walking through Austin, Texas's Zilker Park with award-winning Chickasaw storyteller Amy Bluemel transforms a conversation about history into a profound exploration of human connection, cultural preservation, and the universal language of storytelling.

Amy immediately challenges our modern assumptions by revealing how storytellers functioned as historians before written language existed. "We kept the history of battles or illnesses, or moons and years and where people went and where they came from," she explains, highlighting how oral traditions preserved essential community knowledge across generations. Science confirms this approach works—our brains retain information more effectively through stories.

Amy shares the Chickasaw migration story, featuring divine twins, a sacred pole that pointed their direction, and a protective white dog who eventually became the Milky Way. These narratives aren't just entertaining—they're sophisticated vehicles for cultural knowledge, spiritual wisdom, and ancestral connections that have survived despite systematic attempts to silence Native voices.

Amy then provides a timeline of cultural suppression: "It was illegal for Native Americans to practice their religion until 1978," she reveals. "I was 12." This places modern Native American cultural revitalization in proper context—not as ancient history but as ongoing resistance against very recent oppression. As we witness current political movements attempting to remove uncomfortable historical narratives from museums and educational spaces, Amy's insights become even more urgent.

The episode culminates with Amy sharing a traditional trickster tale about Rabbit trying to convince Creator to give him more brains—a story that perfectly demonstrates how Native American storytelling incorporates humor, moral lessons, and cultural values simultaneously. As she explains, these stories adapt with each telling while preserving essential truths, much like cultures themselves must adapt while maintaining their core identities.

Ready to experience storytelling that bridges cultures and centuries? Subscribe now to join our journey exploring the powerful stories that connect us all, and follow Amy's work at https://amybluemelstoryteller.com/

Transcript

Introduction to Amy Bluemel

Andrew McEntyre 0:00

Welcome to Deep in the Woods with Andrew McIntyre , where one word and one walk reveal the stories that connect us all . As we continue exploring the art of storytelling , I'm thrilled to introduce today's guest , amy Blumell . Amy is an award-winning Native American storyteller . She's also an educator , artist and stomp dancer , sharing her culture at festivals and events across the country . For this episode , amy has chosen the word history to guide our walk .

Andrew McEntyre 0:33

We meet in Zilker Park in Austin , texas , and take a deep dive into why sharing our history matters . Along the way , amy brings to life stories from Native American history and even treats us to a classic trickster tale . If you enjoyed this conversation , please follow the podcast , leave a review and check out our Instagram for bonus content and behind the scenes moments . Now let's head to Zilker Park and join Amy Blumell for a walk and talk about history . Well , thank you for doing this with me , so I appreciate it . I'm going to let you introduce yourself , but you can kind of tell a little bit about what you do , and so I'll let you start from there .

Amy Bluemel 1:16

Chokma sahacha fuat . Amy Bruton Bluemel , chakasha saya . Hello , my name is Amy Blumell and I'm a member of the Chickasaw Nation and I'm a professional storyteller . I travel around the United States and educate about Southeastern people , our traditions , our language , our history , our stories . I have a dance troupe that I had with Sharon Post Oak called Hithla , which means dance , and we do a lot of our traditional Southeastern-style dancing , which is totally different than powwow , so it kind of gives you a bigger view of Native culture and traditions . Take that all over and basically that's what I do .

Andrew McEntyre 1:59

That's awesome . I think I saw recently you were in Washington DC or at some point near the .

Amy Bluemel 2:05

Yeah , I worked in Washington at the Smithsonian , the Native American Museum , and the Smithsonian , in February for the art of the story , and then I was there this summer in June for a week with the Folklife Festival and that was tied in this year with the 20-year anniversary of NMAI , the National Museum of the American Indian .

Andrew McEntyre 2:29

Okay , awesome , that's really cool , and part of this podcast this year is really connecting to that art of storytelling . So I'm excited to hear that and I saw a lot of people say about you particularly that you have this amazing talent when it comes to that part in general how to tell stories , the way to share them and how powerful they are , and so , before we jump into all that , we always want to discuss and kind of build and center around a word what word did you choose for

The Power of History Through Storytelling

Andrew McEntyre 3:00

this discussion ?

Amy Bluemel 3:01

My word is history .

Andrew McEntyre 3:02

Okay .

Amy Bluemel 3:03

Yeah , that's great of this discussion . My word is history . Okay , yeah , that's great Because really , when you look at storytelling , before there was written language , the storytellers were the historians . You know we kept the history of battles or illnesses , or you know moons and years and where people went and where they came from , and really that's what I still do as well as sharing silly stories and fun things , we're also capturing what's happening and keeping it for history .

Andrew McEntyre 3:35

Yeah , those oral stories that get passed down from one generation to the next , and I think what I find so amazing is that the way that it's done is almost a way to help people remember it .

Amy Bluemel 3:48

Oh yeah .

Andrew McEntyre 3:49

And so , whether it's through song or dance or art , you know there was a huge importance throughout our history about being able to hold on to those things and carry it forward , and so I think that's a huge element to storytelling in general .

Amy Bluemel 4:04

Yeah , and I also was reading that they did MRI studies on people who were allowed to read information and people who were given the same information in story form . And your brain just works better when you hear it and you have someone putting information and emotion and rhythm and things like that to it . You retain more .

Andrew McEntyre 4:27

It's like when you hear a song it seems to stick . Yeah , that chorus hooks you , that's awesome yeah . So do you find that , as you share your stories across the United States and that , like , let's say , there's certain groups or kids like do kids really connect with this ? Or do you find various groups across the United States that seem to resonate it resonates more with ?

Amy Bluemel 4:52

Well , you know , people always look at storytelling and they think of it as a thing for children . But really , when I go to an event , whether it's at a school or a museum or a library or a festival I've worked private events . I speak at universities . Story is something that everybody is interested in . You can't find somebody who's not , and people go . I don't like storytelling , you don't like movies .

Andrew McEntyre 5:22

Yeah .

Amy Bluemel 5:22

That's just storytelling . All of it is storytelling . Everything about us tells something . What you wear is storytelling . You don't like movies . Yeah , that's just storytelling . All of it is storytelling . Everything about us tells something . What you wear is storytelling . How you walk is storytelling . What you drive . I like that , yeah , the bumper sticker on your car that says Steelers or Cowboys is telling you a story .

Andrew McEntyre 5:39

It's something I think I mentioned before in an episode where we almost , like we carry these stickers , like you mentioned , a bumper sticker , but we have these things that we say this is who I am and a story is however you share it , whether you said it through fashion or art or through the messages we used to do body markings .

Amy Bluemel 5:56

You had markings for your clan or your events or the things that you'd accomplished the feats . If you were a warrior , you got these marks for certain things . Now some of that's coming back . Of course , we're seeing a lot more people with body modification , but even the shirt you wear- yeah , that's true .

Andrew McEntyre 6:12

It tells you something . Yeah , tattoos are a form of art . I have tattoos related to video games that .

Amy Bluemel 6:16

I grew up liking those things were important to me Instead of what it meant to you . What helped shape you ? Yeah ?

Andrew McEntyre 6:22

But the reason they're there is because some people will come up to you and they'll say hey , what is that about ? And then there's your story . Yeah , you get to say , oh , when I was a kid I used to do this .

Amy Bluemel 6:30

This is how I was shaped .

Andrew McEntyre 6:31

This is where I began , yeah , and that story gets to go forward . And so why do you think that in general , I know we talked about how we have to share that forward through history , we brought that up , but why do you think that we choose stories to share to our children , to pass down ? Why is this history that we carry so important , particularly for humans , but also for the Chickasaw Nation , for Native Americans ?

Amy Bluemel 7:05

but also for the Chickasaw Nation , for Native Americans . Well , you know , I think stories for humans it speaks to being human Because as a storyteller , I've worked with storytellers from Europe and Asia and Africa and different Native American storytellers and Appalachian storytellers , white folks from the South or the North or you know every . But the thing is we all have basically the same stories . They're basically the same , and you can take people from Asia or from Europe who were not here back when my people were running around , you know pre-colonization , and we have the same stories and I just think that speaks to being human . We all have a need to know . Why does rabbit have a tail like that ? Why is the sun in the sky ? Why do birds do this ? We're looking for explanations about our being and ourselves . We tell stories to keep our children safe . If I tell you a scary story about dark water as a kid , that'll make you think twice about going down to the dark water . You go what ? There's what living in there ?

Andrew McEntyre 8:08

That's true , you know yeah .

Amy Bluemel 8:10

So you know , we . I think , first of all , it's just so human to have that need and it's also human to have a need to the world's a big place and you want to put a mark on it to say I was here . You know the world's a big place and you want to put a mark on it to say I was here .

Andrew McEntyre 8:23

I think that's a good thing .

Amy Bluemel 8:24

I want to tell someone else something . Remember me , yeah , and I think for Native people , our stories do speak to that . We're remembering a history that's longer than most people could even consider , and we have to hang on to that .

Andrew McEntyre 8:42

That reminds me

Human Connection Through Global Stories

Andrew McEntyre 8:49

One of the things with this season , too , that I wanted to resonate with . As I mentioned before we started , I'm from North Georgia and , to be honest , some of the stories there are often limited or we often hear just a few versions of our stories , right , yeah . And so I find that , with the community that I grew up in , that they try to isolate stories . Sometimes They'll say here's the story you need to know , but I don't want you to know anything else . And I think in a world we have now that's so open , and I think it's important to hear all types of stories , to be able to have a greater perspective of what it means to be human and the history we have as humans . And so one of my goals with this is to be able to share lots of different stories , you know , to open people's perspective , to saying , oh well , maybe my little view here , my stories , are not , that's not all there is , and I think that's also important too there is , and I think that's also important too .

Amy Bluemel 9:47

Well , I think that controlling the narrative is what we've been doing in this country and around the world for centuries .

Andrew McEntyre 9:51

The history books .

Amy Bluemel 9:52

right yeah , and if you look at history , it's written by the conqueror . History is always the story is told from the person who won the race , who won the war , who won . You know the territory , so you know . I think right now , part of what you're seeing is the world is a much more open place and our children have access to things that I never dreamed of . I mean , I was born in , you know , the 60s . There was no computers . In high school we were getting computers , you know , right as I was leaving . So these kids , they have access to information , to stories , and they can kind of go wait a minute . That narrative is not it you know ?

Andrew McEntyre 10:32

Yeah , because I think , as we can see now , even current in the politics of now , there's this fight to control the story .

Amy Bluemel 10:39

They're trying desperately to control the narrative and I think that the fear that they can't and what will come if they can't , and I don't think what will come would be a bad thing . We all just have to take a breath and make room for everybody else . You know , when you talk about the narrative , I go all over the United States and my people , chickasha people , the Chickasaw we come out of the mound builder tradition . Now , most people I talk to have no idea that there were mounds in this country .

Andrew McEntyre 11:09

No idea , I live right far from Etowah .

Amy Bluemel 11:13

Yeah , and they have no idea . And I say there were pyramids in this country , and people go what ? And I go . They were larger and older than Egyptian pyramids and people go what they ran from Wisconsin all the way down into the Mayans and back across the East Coast . Never heard of it , you know . So I think it's so important that that kind of history is taught . You know . You need to know what happened before you got here . Didn't happen when a ship landed , you know with the pilgrims In 1490s .

Amy Bluemel 11:45

It's like history starts today . No , history was here and these were huge civilizations . These were 10,000 more people living in one spot . It was like going to Rome if you were , you know , living in a village .

Andrew McEntyre 11:57

Yeah , because I remember growing up we went to the Etowah Indian Mounds and we learned I think there was a Mississippian tribe , I believe , that built them originally , and then other groups came in . But the thing I found so fascinating was particularly the Mississippian tribe almost like disappeared , like they didn't know exactly where they went and we still don't completely know all the details . And then other tribes came in . But I found that to be very mysterious and almost as a child I thought , oh , I'd love to know more about all that . That curiosity of that story led me to really want to know and figure out what's happening . And there's an old mulgy also mounds in Macon , georgia , there's a few others , I'm sure , in Alabama and so forth .

Amy Bluemel 12:39

Oh , they're all over yeah it's amazing to think . There's Cahokia and Moundville . Cahokia is in St Louis . Oh wow , it was one of the largest sites and there are four wood hinges . There are four wood hinges which are equal to one stone hinge .

Andrew McEntyre 12:55

My gosh .

Amy Bluemel 12:56

And people have no idea that that was and it was a huge city , huge city for commerce and trade , huge city for commerce and trade .

Andrew McEntyre 13:02

So can you tell me or remind me , like , what were the reasons for building the mountains or the pyramids in , like , I think , in Mexico or in South America ?

Amy Bluemel 13:12

Well , you know , I mean truthfully too all of it is going to be best guess , because we don't , you know , due to colonization and Christianity and forced assimilation and removal . You know , we don't have all of those answers either , but you know , there were societies that set up , they had leaders , the kings , they worshiped the sun , you know , and they were building these huge monuments as part of their religious and their social structures , you know . So you had ball courts , huge ball courts that were part of their religious aspect and their belief in the world , and these people would . It was called the little brother of war .

Amy Bluemel 13:51

And you would have these huge events . You know ? It's kind of funny they say you know , football is a religion . Today , Sports have always been part of the religion , of man's psyche , religion and man's psyche . So what the mounds actually stood for , they were part of complex social societies and things like that . But do we really know everything ?

Andrew McEntyre 14:12

No , yeah , because I think , and I keep going back to Etowah because it was close to where I grew up but I remember they started excavating one of them before . They were like , oh , we shouldn't do this . But as they did , they found a lot of artifacts that were buried there as well . But you know a lot of art , a lot of things that were told through their stories , and I don't know if maybe you had shown this , but there was a . Is the spiral itself ?

Amy Bluemel 14:36

is that a representation of a mound or Well , spiral is you find it in every society ? Yeah , you find it in nature when you look at certain plants and things like that and the flowers . They all have the same spiral , so what it can mean to each society is so different . But yeah , the spiral was a big part of our system of life , of wind . It could be wind , it could be water . It just depends on who you're talking to .

Andrew McEntyre 15:01

Yeah , I really connect with that . In fact , the logo for my podcast has a spiral built into it . Yeah , with the mindset of kind of going deeper into nature also allows you to go , we can have these deep conversations that allow us to go deep within ourself , yeah , and so I always love that , but I like how it can have .

Amy Bluemel 15:21

it's a symbol that can represent so many things and it goes on to that whole union thing like symbols and people being attracted to certain things . You know , we are so human . Again , it's so human to find a symbol and go hey , this speaks to me , for some reason ?

Andrew McEntyre 15:33

Yeah , as something , was it Joseph Campbell or a few other ones who had talked about , like the archetypes that kind of carried over through all of human ?

Amy Bluemel 15:42

story and mythology .

Andrew McEntyre 15:44

Yeah , so that's really neat . Well , before we go forward , do you mind sharing a story that you find that connects to history , or connects to that you often tell that has that element of history within it ?

Amy Bluemel 16:01

Well , if you , one of the stories I tell that we consider like a historical story or a sacred story is the migration story . Okay , and it said that in the beginning , people walking they were walking away from a homeland that was filled with pestilence and violence and disease , famine , hataknoa . People walking , we walked for a long time and we walked behind two brothers . The two brothers were twins

Chickasaw Migration Story

Amy Bluemel 16:40

and they were gifted from Abba Benili the Creator , and they were gifted from Abba Benili the creator . Two gifts One was a sacred pole and every night when the people camped , they would plant the pole in the ground and in the morning , the pole would point the direction that you were supposed to go .

Amy Bluemel 16:58

We came from the west and the pole always pointed east Hataknua people walking . We also walked behind Ofitovi , which was the white dog , another gift from Ababanini , from the creator . Now white dog was a scout , he was a protector . He alerted us to danger . He walked ahead . If someone was bitten by a snake he would lick the wound and they would heal . He could heal you as well as guide you . So we have people walking behind the two gifts . And it said they walked for many , many years and eventually they would run out of supplies or the things they needed and the pole would stand erect and it would stand up long enough for the people to hunt or gather or plant and eventually one morning they'd wake up and the pole would point east and Noah began to walk again . They walked and walked . They got to a huge river and when they got to the Mississippi the pole said they had to cross . So they began to take dugouts and boats and do everything they could to get all the people across . And as they got the last boat across they noticed that the white dog had joined that party and about halfway across , the boat was attacked by a horned snake and the white dog or a Thai snake , and the white dog jumps into the water and defends the people and they make it across . But we lost the dog and he's taken into the underworld with the snake . Now Chakasha , people know he's still with us . If you're quiet you can hear him . But eventually he would leap from the underworld , go across the middle world into the sky and when he hits the sky he scatters and he becomes the white dog's way or the Milky Way , and when your soul leaves you you will take the Milky Way . He will lead you again back to the fires of the ancestors . That's awesome .

Amy Bluemel 19:19

Now , when we got to the other side , the pole did something it had never done . It began to wobble and shake and turn and get vibrating and violently back and forth , and the people were very concerned . They didn't know what to do and one brother said we stay , it's a sign we're home . And the other brother said , yeah , we need to go , we need to get out of here . So it was decided after four days that they would split . And it ended up . If you stayed with the brother who thought we were home , they became the Chakta people , the Chakta . And if you split and you went with Chakasha , you became the Chickasaw people , and that's why , to this day , we share a language , but we're two separate people .

Andrew McEntyre 19:54

Oh , okay , that's amazing . I love how there's elements within that story and actually , before I jump into that , I just wanted to pause and show where we're at . This is really neat .

Amy Bluemel 20:05

Isn't it beautiful ?

Andrew McEntyre 20:06

Yeah , I don't think we talked a lot about where we're walking . I'll do that real fast , but Zilker Park is right . When you start , start , you can actually see the skyline of austin texas , you know , with the skyscrapers . But we've walked for you know , 10 or 15 minutes and now it feels like we are in the wilderness , almost so it's . They have a little trail that comes off of zilker park and , um , this looks like a a little I don't know how it is , so maybe what waterfall would may have been here at one point , but like there's a little cascade of rocks that go up and with lots of stones through here as well , austin is all rock .

Andrew McEntyre 20:39

Yeah .

Amy Bluemel 20:40

We have Flint and rock everywhere .

Andrew McEntyre 20:43

Yeah , but , but in regards to your story , one thing I'd like to point out was , like , how so many of those elements carry over , like I heard , elements of the underworld , um , or um , elements of that migration in general , um , and that goes back to , like we were saying earlier , how sometimes , globally , some of these stories have elements that intertwine with each other . Um , and I always find that amazing that our stories have these elements that connect , that that show that you know we , we do have these connections , that show we're human , but there's still these elements that , at the same time , are unique to each group .

Amy Bluemel 21:19

Yeah , and when you look at a lot of Southeastern tribes , we all not we all , but a lot of us tell very similar stories about migration and two brothers , hero twins , these kind of things , and so you look at , there's a connection somewhere where these people at one point were probably one .

Andrew McEntyre 21:38

In the Southeast there's many different tribes . You have Cherokee , choctaw .

Amy Bluemel 21:44

Seminole .

Andrew McEntyre 21:46

How would you say that a lot of their stories have elements that connect , or is it very much like each have their own unique stories ?

Amy Bluemel 21:54

Well , I mean , they're each unique in a lot of their ideas and history , but they're also connected because we all not we all , but many of us- come out of that . Yeah , many of us come out of that mound builder tradition , so you're carrying those kind of you know similarities with you as well as , when you break apart , you're actually making new connections and new cultural and new traditions .

Andrew McEntyre 22:19

So those traditions that carry forward , how do they hold on to today ? Like what elements are still ? You mentioned dance and art . How do you feel like those are still connecting in your culture today ?

Amy Bluemel 22:33

Well , I mean , we still do stomp dance , which is one of the oldest dances probably done on this continent , and it started out as a prayer it's the way you spoke to Creator and so we still go to ground to stomp ground and practice these things that have been going on since BC . You know we do that Storytelling . I'm working this next year . What I want to do is I want to focus on the stories that we no longer tell .

Andrew McEntyre 23:02

Okay .

Amy Bluemel 23:03

Like . I found some really old stories that I know from looking at the images of ancient art and hearing stories that they were connected to us and hearing stories that they were connected to us , but we don't tell them anymore . Because of colonization and trying to blend in , we've lost a lot of that , and so I want to bring those back to life . That's what I'm going to spend the next year doing .

Andrew McEntyre 23:29

I'm appalled . It's like all these guys come through . They're faster than us . Hey , good morning . How are you guys ? Good ?

Amy Bluemel 23:35

I'm not too bad .

Andrew McEntyre 23:40

So explain some of these stories to me . What makes these different ?

Amy Bluemel 23:44

Well , there's like this gorget I'm wearing this morning . If you see , it's a circle .

Andrew McEntyre 23:50

Yeah .

Amy Bluemel 23:51

And you can see a man in the center and they used to call this the spaghetti gorget . Okay , archaeologists were like oh well , you know , it looks like spaghetti . We

Recovering Lost Native American Tales

Amy Bluemel 24:00

didn't have a name for this person , but he's . He's found in the southeast , so you know that he's part of our history , but we've lost his name .

Amy Bluemel 24:10

Well , in this last uh year or so , a friend of mine and I talk to all kinds of people trying to track these stories down . I talk to elders , I talk to different tribes , I talk to archaeologists , anthropologists , historians , anyone . I read accounts , old things . A friend of mine , his name was Dr Kent Riley . He found an account and it's in a published book that's been around for a while and it was an account by Spanish missionaries . They had gone through an Apalachee village in Florida and they wrote this story down about a king . And when this king decided it was time to die Now , first of all , don't you love that he decides it was time to die now , first of all , don't you love that he decides it's time to die . He says put me in a pot of boiling water , oh gosh . And he says I will rise on the mist into the skies and I will become thunder and lightning .

Andrew McEntyre 25:07

Okay .

Amy Bluemel 25:07

So he looked and he said I think this gorget , if you look at it , you're looking at it straight on , you need to look at it .

Andrew McEntyre 25:15

You're looking at it straight on , you need to look at it from the top , the circle is a pot , all of that spaghetti is boiling water .

Amy Bluemel 25:20

He is being boiled . This is mist coming out the sides and there's actually another gorget that they find and it's got two of him . So he's separating , he's becoming thunder and lightning Wow . And he has a name and there's a lot of information about him and I thought , wow , we found him . We found a story origin for Thunder and Lightning , for the Southeastern culture . So I'm going to spend my time this next year fleshing that out . There's the Appalachian ball game . I want to . They're known stories , but known in the fact that they've been written down , but we don't tell them anymore .

Andrew McEntyre 25:59

And why do you feel that you said they aren't told , because when colonization occurred , yeah , that it kind of In Christianity you don't have deities other than one deity . Yes .

Amy Bluemel 26:14

You know .

Andrew McEntyre 26:14

So if you talk about thunder , gods and things like this , well , you can't talk about that . Yeah , and that leads me to one of the conversations I had . A friend of mine is an English major . We talk about mythology a lot and in one of the episodes we discussed how the idea of mystery , right , like many of our stories , are often used to tell things that we don't really can't explain any other way except through stories . Yeah , and you mentioned , like thunder and lightning , or you , um , how , um , the milky way you mentioned earlier in that story , um , all of those elements . We look and we have a way to say , well , I don't know exactly what's happening , but here's , here's a story that I can resonate and connect with , and I think through all of our stories in the world we can find elements of that .

Amy Bluemel 26:54

You want to make sense of the world around us Exactly .

Andrew McEntyre 26:57

Yeah that mystery .

Amy Bluemel 26:58

And you also want the mystery to remain , but not be terrifying .

Andrew McEntyre 27:02

Yeah , that's good , you know to me .

Amy Bluemel 27:04

these stories give you comfort . This is someone you knew . He's a king . He's dividing and becoming thunder and lightning , and as scary as thunder and lightning are it brings water .

Andrew McEntyre 27:18

Yeah , that that's true , and water is medicine and so much that comes through nature . Yeah , you know , like in this , um the stories of animals , uh , spirit animals , or um , you know how , even in christianity or other religions , you have um elements of how things were done through , like the flood stories or um that , how elements were , how we got here , creation stories , so all of those things are . We use the example of there's this mystery and we often put a blanket over it , right , and then we try to use stories to describe the blanket .

Amy Bluemel 27:43

Yeah , that's a really nice idea , and so .

Andrew McEntyre 27:47

I think that was an element that goes along with mythology , but it goes through all of our stories to help us be able to understand the mystery under that .

Amy Bluemel 27:54

And if we would slow down , you'd realize that you're describing the same thing . The next person is yeah , you know it may be a different view of it , but it's really the same thing . You know , like I said , it's human .

Andrew McEntyre 28:08

Yeah , and I think we have more connections and we do things that divide us , and I think our stories can do that . If there's anything I wanted to share this season through this was to say that we are human .

Amy Bluemel 28:25

We are connected and our stories should be able to show that , that we have these things , that and also story also points out our differences too , and things that we can honor about that as well . You know , for I know for Native people if we lose our story because our story wasn't written down , we didn't have scribes that said , hey , this happened here , we started recording kings and queens . No , we had oral storytellers that were historians that carried that for us and they would actually train someone else to take their position . You know so for us . If we lose all of this , then what do we have ?

Andrew McEntyre 28:56

Yeah , and then when , as you mentioned earlier , when colonization and Christianity came , there was an attempt

Critical Thinking and Historical Erasure

Andrew McEntyre 29:00

to take that away .

Amy Bluemel 29:01

Oh , my grandfather grew up in native schools .

Andrew McEntyre 29:05

Yeah , what was that like ? How did that look ?

Amy Bluemel 29:08

He didn't talk about it much . And you know he ended up having severe drinking issues . You know alcoholism was a big part of our family's experience and I believe it totally comes from these kind of tragedies that were forced upon people .

Andrew McEntyre 29:26

Yeah , I mean , there's this mindset in Western civilization that one story is more right than the other . And when that happens , when you come in and say , okay , we have the right answer , we have the right story you need to change . That's where this trauma , that's where these incidents that are horrific occur .

Amy Bluemel 29:46

Yeah , well , and also too , if you learn someone's history right . So like when I talk to people and I educate about my people walked on the Trail of Tears . We were the last removed Trail of Tears . People assumed during the Trail of Tears that we were running around in the woods , living in teepees or huts or whatever they're visualizing , and that we were wearing loincloths and headdresses and this kind of stuff . We were wearing pioneer clothing . We were living in homes with doors and stuff . We were wearing pioneer clothing . We were living in homes with doors and windows . We were going to churches . We were your neighbor .

Amy Bluemel 30:20

So when I tell people this , they go what ? And I go , yeah , we were your neighbor . Then they'll say , well , that was hundreds of years ago . And I say , all right , it was illegal for natives to dance in most maybe I don't know if all states , but a lot of states , most states until the late 30s , because all dances were viewed as a war dance . So the government goes , we're just going to knock that off . Now people are I'm telling people this is they're watching powwow dancing or stomp dancing and they're shocked that that could be regulated . I'm like , yeah , they wouldn't let us and I said , okay , they lifted it in the 30s for us to be able to do it . Well , for tribes like mine , you pray through dance . You light a fire , you go at night , you dance counterclockwise around that fire . The smoke carries your words to creator . So now we're allowed to dance , but it is illegal in this country for indigenous people to practice their religion until 1978 .

Amy Bluemel 31:19

Oh wow , I was 12 . So when people go , that was hundreds of years ago I go no , it wasn't , and I'm not asking for an apology . What I'm asking is if you understand where someone comes from , why someone might be a little standoffish , why someone might be wanting to control their information or their things . Well , when you've never been allowed to , if you understand that about each other , it makes a difference on how we react to each other . We're not afraid of each other . If you understand someone else's story , then I go okay , well , you know , he's a great guy , he came from this , he did this , you know , or that . It gives me information about you and how I can react to you better and how I can love you more , you know .

Andrew McEntyre 32:04

There was a quote actually in Austin yesterday we went to eat and it reminded me of that . It was on one of the murals , which there's many in Austin , that said I'm going to paraphrase it because I'm going to get it just right but it says if you want someone to love , you allow them to be themselves . Yeah , and I think that's kind of what you're saying here .

Amy Bluemel 32:19

If you understand my history and I understand your history , then we can do a lot better . You know , and you don't have to be afraid of my history . You know there's a lot in my history that's not great For Native people . I also have my dad's white , so I have that history as well , you know . But if we can understand where each person's coming from historically , then you've got a better . You know , we could all deal with each other so much better .

Andrew McEntyre 32:45

So it's a way to like I find all these stories to be fascinating . I find that , like I love to see how stories evolve and how they change and how they're presented and that's another part of that whole thing is just through art , through whether you write it down as an actual story , through poetry , all of those things . It's just so amazing to me that we as humans have this ability to connect in such amazing ways . Different ways .

Andrew McEntyre 33:13

And then for the part and you know I think we've talked about this before was like right now , the fact that there's so many attempts to again Take away stories , or take away parts of it , because this fear of whether it's indoctrination or that schools are going to tell people that this is the wrong path .

Amy Bluemel 33:38

They're like that the government currently is even going through areas of the Smithsonian and trying to basically remove things from people's stories and public parks like Rosa Parks story was just removed , yeah , and the Tuskegee Airmen and public parks like Rosa Parks the story was just removed . Yeah , and the Tuskegee Airmen . And now they're going through all of the museums and saying we need to . It's just heartbreaking , it's heartbreaking .

Andrew McEntyre 34:02

I saw yesterday that the Japanese museum in Smithsonian was they're going through and they were saying , no , this is not going to happen , they're fighting . But there were elements of like internment camps and sections about that history that they were trying to remove . And I mean you can't just remove the parts that you don't like or take away the part that you don't agree with .

Amy Bluemel 34:19

Well , and here's the deal . People have said , well , that'll make kids uncomfortable . Well , what kids ? Because I know a lot of kids that were uncomfortable for hundreds of years , and you know we're fine with that . Yeah , you know you were fine for a person of color's child to be scared to death , yeah , or to be made uncomfortable every day because they couldn't go to school or whatever you know . So we all need to be uncomfortable . Yeah , I think you only learn and grow when you're uncomfortable . Yeah , I agree .

Andrew McEntyre 34:50

I'm a teacher , I work with kids , and so it's heartbreaking for me to see because our goal is not to say here's the information you need to know by itself . It's also ability to say here's the information , here's our history , here's our stories , but how would you ? I want to let you know how to use this information to make decisions yourself .

Amy Bluemel 35:13

Well , critical thinking Exactly , and that's something they don't want right now . That's true If you can keep people stupid . You know , when you shut the Department of Education , what ?

Andrew McEntyre 35:25

You know it's a worrisome path and nothing's perfect .

Amy Bluemel 35:29

I'm not going to sit here and go . Oh , the Department of Education was just the perfect thing . But you know you can't well that you're doomed to repeat if you're history , if you ignore history , and really I think that's what we're seeing right now and I'm worried that we're running towards a repeat of 80 years ago .

Andrew McEntyre 35:46

Yeah , and I think you listened to my episode on freedom . That was .

Amy Bluemel 35:55

my biggest concern was that people are almost blindly letting a lot of this happen . Yeah , well , they're being still and they're being quiet , they're going . Well , I'm not , you know , I don't like it , but well , we need to be real aware and use our resources to do what we can .

Andrew McEntyre 36:09

Yeah , and I think , again , that's the most powerful thing we have right now are our stories . Yeah , and because I think that connects with people in a different way . I mean you can go and stand . I mean I actually find it admirable to go and protest and to you know , in a nonviolent way , to really say here's what I believe . But social media actually has this amazing ability right now to be able to share stories with people . That can resonate in a way through art , through music , through actual storytelling , and I think people can connect with that and see oh okay , I understand now you can't change people's perspective or behavior easily , but stories have an ability to push past some of those barriers that you can't normally .

Amy Bluemel 36:55

They do , unfortunately , with social media , and I'm not anti-social media , because I certainly use it and I enjoy it immensely . Unfortunately , though , you do get people putting out stories that just aren't happening . Yeah , that's , true , just aren't true , and if you're not selective or not educated enough or discerning enough to go , that can't be happening .

Andrew McEntyre 37:20

Yeah .

Amy Bluemel 37:21

They're not eating children on the moon , or whatever . The outrageous claim is .

Andrew McEntyre 37:25

Here's the headline . Oh , that's crazy . Let me share it to 500 people , to 5,000 people . Look what they're doing .

Amy Bluemel 37:29

Yeah , no , they's crazy . Let me share it to 500 people , to 5,000 people . Look what they're doing ?

Amy Bluemel 37:30

No , they're not , but unfortunately , we're going to have to be careful with our stories too , and that's why , before I decided to come on this is I looked at you and listened to yourself and thought you know , what will he do with this story ? Because I don't want someone who's going to take my words and be like , see , she agrees with us . No , no , no , you know , I don't . I think we should be going forward in a positive manner and we're running backwards .

Andrew McEntyre 37:58

Yeah , yeah , it's a little scary . Well , actually , I think we're getting close to getting back and before we get to , there's a lot of construction coming up ahead of us . I still want to give you an opportunity before we finished . There's a lot of construction coming up ahead of us . I still want to give you an opportunity before we finished . Would you mind telling me what was your favorite story to tell before we go ?

Amy Bluemel 38:16

You know , that depends on the day . It's really funny . I always say that stories are like children .

Andrew McEntyre 38:21

Okay .

Amy Bluemel 38:22

And at certain times you have one . That is really just fun . You know , not that you don't have a child you like , but some kids go through phases . Oh , this is a great phase with my youngest . She's a lot of fun . Oh , my oldest is doing this . This is so interesting , yeah , so they're kind of . They each have their own virtues and you kind of like them . And some

The Rabbit Trickster Tale

Amy Bluemel 38:40

stories will disappear and I won't tell them for years and all of a sudden I'll go . I should tell the story about the rabbit putting in . You know , but I do like our trickster's tales a lot . We have a lot of trickster tales with rabbit , with Tzokfi .

Andrew McEntyre 38:53

Okay .

Amy Bluemel 38:54

So those are some of my favorites , but I don't know that I really have a favorite .

Andrew McEntyre 38:58

So it just depends , yeah , so would you mind telling me a story about the trickster rabbit ?

Amy Bluemel 39:04

Sure . So , tzokfi , he woke up one day and he was very unhappy and he looked around at the world and thought everyone else had it better than him . All the gifts they'd gotten from Creator were better than the ones that he had . So he went to Creator's house and he banged on the door and Creator let him come in and he said what can I do for you ? And Rabbit said I don't like my gifts , I want more brains , I want to be smarter and I think you should give it to me . Creator kind of laughed . He said well , I'm going to have to think about that and I'm kind of busy right now . He said I tell you what . There's a big ant pile where all the ants in the world live out in the woods . He said if you can figure a way to get all those ants into my house without getting stung , then we'll talk about it . So Rabbit leaves and he puts some thought to it and he gets a burlap sack and he goes down to this anthill and he starts talking to their minko , to their king , and he says hey , he says I was talking to Creator today and he said there's only 500 of you and that you're a small tribe , you're a small clan , you're not very strong . He's like I told him there was more . He wants you all to get in this sack and I'm going to take you to his house and he's going to count you and we'll prove that he's wrong . And of course , the king of the ants is like of course we're a mighty group of people . So he gets all of his people to load into this sack and Rabbit takes it back to Creator and Creator's impressed . He goes wow , it's pretty good . He says , but you know I'm still busy and I need to think some more . He says there's a huge rattlesnake , biggest snake in the world's out there . You can get him to my house without getting bitten . He says then we'll talk about it .

Amy Bluemel 40:49

Rabbit boy , he's really struggling because he's like man , big snake , what am I going to do ? So he goes through the woods and he finds a huge stick and he tells the snake . He says hey , I was talking to Creator this morning and the Creator said you're only two foot long . But I told him you're much , much longer . The snake goes of course , not bigger than that . And he says well , I tell you what lay down against this stick and we'll measure you and I'll take you and take it back and show Creator how long you are . So Rattlesnake lays down , but Rabbit says well , you're kind of wiggling around and I can't get a good thing . He says here I brought some rope . So he ties the Rattlesnake's head to the stick and he ties his middle to the stick and he ties his tail to the stick .

Amy Bluemel 41:29

Pretty soon he throws that stick up over his shoulder and he walks him back to Creator's house and he lays him down . He says here's the snake . And Creator says wow , that's really good . He says I'm still busy , though . He says I'll tell you what . There's a huge alligator and if you can get the alligator back to my house without getting killed , then we'll really talk about it .

Amy Bluemel 41:51

Oh , he goes down to the water and he calls to that alligator . He says hey . He says Minthe , come over here , I got to tell you something . Creator is wanting to have a big stomp dance and there's nobody strong enough to cut all the wood we need for the fire , except for you . So he said you got to come with me and cut this wood . And boy Gator's all excited because he's gotten shoes to do something special . And they start walking and Rabbit had picked up a stick , big club , and they get out a little ways . And that Rabbit thinks , man , I'm going to have to kill this guy so I don't get killed , going to the creator's house with him . And he just starts to attack this alligator and he's a whap wh and he's like whap , whap , whap , whap , whap and he's just beating this alligator and alligator's howling and screaming and he runs back to the water and he disappears and rabbit says oh , now I'm in trouble because he knows .

Amy Bluemel 42:42

So after the night passes he comes down to the water the next day and he says hey , alligator . And alligator pokes his eyes up . He says why'd you do that ? Rabbit says do what . He says why did you attack me like that ? He says you tried to kill me . Rabbit says oh , did you meet my twin brother ? The gator says what ? He goes I'm so sorry , you must have met my twin . He is not a good person , he's terrible and if he hurt you I'm very sorry . Gator says yeah , he tried to kill me . He says well , creator still want you to cut this wood . We got to go . He sent me this morning .

Amy Bluemel 43:22

They start walking and Gator says you know , says I'm really lucky that your brother didn't know how to kill me . Rabbit says well , if he was to know how , how would it be ? And he said well , if you hit me as hard as you can on the like , right up under the knees on the front , I'll throw my head back . And when I throw my head back , if you hit me right in the neck , that would have ended me . I'm so glad he didn't know how to do that . A few more steps . Rabbit hits those knees . Gator's head goes up , kills him . He drags this alligator back by the tail all the way to Creator's house . Creator sees him . He says now let's talk . I want more brains . And Creator says Rabbit , if I gave you more brains you'd rule the world . You've got enough .

Amy Bluemel 44:02

And he's on his way .

Andrew McEntyre 44:04

That's awesome . That trickster element in the story seems to be pretty pervasive I mean what is ? What do you feel like that ? What ? What in the story part like ? What is the role of that that character ?

Amy Bluemel 44:16

often well , trickster , he , he gets you in trouble . But a lot of times the trouble is to teach you something , is to teach you something good , it's to show you that what you have isn't so bad . Uh , we have trickster stories about all kinds of things and , of of course , our trickster , we say , is the rabbit . But there's actually I'm seeing stuff that we actually had different tricksters for different things and it's kind of , through the years , gotten condensed down . Perhaps it's from exposure to African or Europeans , but we probably had multiple tricksters and we tell a lot of rabbit as our trickster . Now , southwestern people , they have coyote tricksters . If you go to the East Coast , they have a different trickster . If you go to the West Coast , a lot of those tribes use Fala'ishtu , the raven , as their trickster , and it's such a human thing . You want good trouble , you know . You want good trouble . You know most trickster stories always end up with even if it , if it's a bad thing that happened to the character . There's a story .

Andrew McEntyre 45:16

Yeah , you know but then that helps you remember , yeah , the lesson and be able to carry that forward .

Amy Bluemel 45:22

And then , yeah , it's told next to the generation for the following and and I'm assuming that every generation there's probably there's been slight changes , as you mentioned before , each time well , I , I can , I like people who come and see me and I say I saw you a couple of years ago and you told that story and you didn't say that . And I'll say you're right , I absolutely didn't . And I may never say it again or I may say it twice tomorrow . It just depends on the situation , it depends on , on what's going on , it depends on , you know , if I remember it , if I forget it and things change .

Amy Bluemel 45:58

There's a story that I used to tell , and I don't tell it right now because , well , it talks about bad medicine and it could be taken by a lot of people right now to go , oh well , all medicine is bad medicine and we're already having a measles outbreak , so I'm not going to tell that story for a while . Yeah , that makes sense . It's going to go to sleep because I don't want to poison the well , so to say . But yeah , stories change and they have to change . If they don't change and you don't make them relatable to a new audience , if I can't tweak that moral a little bit to get your attention , why would you listen ? That you know . If I can't tweak that moral a little bit to get your attention , why would you ?

Andrew McEntyre 46:31

listen , that makes sense , yeah . You know , Well , I think we'll finish up here , but before I do , last question like where are you heading next in your life ? What's your next step on your ?

Amy Bluemel 46:38

path . Oh goodness , my next step . I leave on Sunday and I'm going to New Orleans . I'm part of the Bulbancha residency , and Bulbancha is the word that the natives used for New Orleans and it means like a place of many tongues .

Amy Bluemel 46:55

So there was so much trade there there were all the different languages , and Bulbancha residency is part of the Tulane University and I'll be an artist in residence for three weeks there and then I've got a visit to the Idle , york and Indianapolis in June and all kinds of stuff . You can follow me on my website and get all of my schedule nativetellercom . Okay , awesome .

Andrew McEntyre 47:15

Yeah Well , thank you so much for doing this with me . I really appreciate it . Yeah , I know it was short notice to connect with each other , but I , you know , just happened to have a little window of time here .

Amy Bluemel 47:25

So I definitely appreciate you doing this no thank you and anytime to connect with someone and talk story that's my .

Andrew McEntyre 47:32

I have the best job in the world . I mean , you know , it sounds like a traveling and telling stories .

Amy Bluemel 47:35

Yeah , and I talk about what I'm passionate about .

Andrew McEntyre 47:37

Yeah , so all right . Well , thank you for having me . Oh yeah , thank you for listening to this Deep in the Woods episode with Amy Blumel . I'll leave you with a quote from Gerald Vizenor , a Native American writer . I'll leave you with a quote from Gerald Vizenor , a Native American writer . In our stories , the trickster is not a fool , but a teacher , showing us the cracks where light gets in . I want to say thank you to Amy for taking this walk with me . I also want to say thank you to Ryan Cherry for the music in this podcast , and I want to thank you again for listening and I hope you'll walk with me again next time on

Episode Closing and Final Thoughts

Andrew McEntyre 48:10

Deep in the Woods . Thank you .