Deep in the Woods
A podcast like no other—recorded entirely while walking in nature. Each episode follows host Andrew McEntyre and a guest as they explore various topics all guided by a single word chosen by the guest. This unique format invites raw, meaningful conversations shaped by movement, place, and the power of words. Take a walk with us into the woods and uncover the stories that connect us all.
Deep in the Woods
Fungi: Ranger Darling and The Intelligence Beneath Our Feet
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The humble mushroom might be the most misunderstood organism on our planet. Walking Arabia Mountain with mycology expert Darling Ngoh reveals a hidden world of intelligence networks pulsing beneath our feet—without a single brain cell in sight.
Mushrooms are reshaping how we understand intelligence itself. While exploring the unique granite landscape of this Georgia landmark, we discover that fungal networks operate with startling efficiency, solving complex problems that baffle human engineers. Scientists in Japan and the UK have found that slime molds—relatives of fungi—can design transportation networks more efficiently than urban planners. These organisms, despite having no central nervous system, showcase problem-solving abilities that challenge our understanding of cognition.
The conversation winds through unexpected territory as we explore how 80-90% of trees worldwide connect through underground fungal networks in cooperative relationships. Trees actually lower their cellular defenses to invite mycelium inside their roots—a partnership that has sustained forest ecosystems for millions of years. This natural cooperation model raises profound questions about human systems that prioritize competition over collaboration.
Ranger Darling's own journey bridges two seemingly disconnected worlds: data science and forest ecology. Through his organization Hikes of Georgia, he's creating innovative conservation strategies while teaching beginners how to safely identify mushrooms.
The beautiful granite outcrops of Arabia Mountain, with their endangered plant species growing in solution pits formed over centuries, provide the perfect backdrop for contemplating how we might better align human innovation with nature's proven success strategies.
Join us to discover why fungi might hold solutions to our most pressing challenges—from healthcare to climate change to technological advancement.
Follow Hikes of Georgia on social media or visit Arabia Mountain on weekends for a chance to meet Ranger Darling in person and explore this hidden gem just outside Atlanta.
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Meeting Ranger Darling
Speaker 1Welcome to Deep in the Woods with Andrew McIntyre , where one word and one walk reveal the stories that connect us all . Today , we journey to Arabia Mountain in Lithonia , georgia , alongside the inspiring Darling Go , better known as Ranger Darling . He's a park ranger , mycology expert , hiking enthusiast and the founder of Hikes of Georgia . Hiking enthusiast and the founder of Hikes of Georgia . Through his work , he empowers hikers and beginning foragers to connect with nature through accessible , educational and safe experiences that build community , raise environmental awareness and promote healthy living . In this episode , our word is fungi . As we wander the unique landscape of Arabia Mountain , we search for mushrooms and dive into conversations about the fascinating world of mycology , the role of technology and data and the story behind hikes of Georgia . Before we start , remember to check out the Deep in the Woods Instagram page for video clips from this episode and don't forget to rate the podcast and leave a review wherever you listen . Join us now as we walk the trail towards Arabia Mountain and explore the word fungi . Well , you want to go and get started ? Yeah , dude .
Speaker 2All right .
Speaker 1Well , I'm gonna let you introduce yourself . I find that guests do a better job introducing themselves than I do , so I'll let you get started .
Speaker 2Awesome . Hello everyone . Thanks for having me on your podcast today , andrew , all right , thank you .
Speaker 2Yeah , my name is Darling Doe . I usually go by Ranger Darling , as I work at the Arabian Mountain National Heritage Area as a part-time park ranger to National Heritage Area as a part-time park ranger , and some of my interests involve nature and computer science , but primarily I'm more fascinated with the field of mycology . It's something that I've been deeply involved in now for the past I'd say four to five years and I think you can think of it more in line with a fanatical obsession . Okay , because my real area of study is data science .
Speaker 2I'm still in school , by the way , and so a lot of what I'm trying to do with my legacy per se , or with my curiosities and how I want to dive deeper into that , is , I think there's a profound intelligence that is exhibited in the fungal networks , and you know we'll get a little bit more into that . But just staying high level now , there is a profound intelligence at a molecular , cellular level , and this is what baffles me too . Being someone who works in healthcare during the week , I'm exposed to other systems , right , more in line , hey , hey , good seeing you like . Yes , I know how you're actually a usual hiker . Oh , awesome , um , but yeah , um , you're a celebrity around here , it seems so well , dude , well it's the people know .
Speaker 2Well , the people really make the atmosphere for me .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's awesome . Sorry to interrupt you . Go ahead . No , you're good .
Speaker 2You're good , but , yeah , being exposed to biological systems as well . Right and primarily , I work in the space of chiropractic , doing a lot of business development . That's my primary role as I help chiropractors . That's a parasitic fungi . Yeah .
Speaker 1Parasitic fungi .
Speaker 2explain yeah over there on the oak tree . Oh , I see , on the tree itself . Okay .
Speaker 1Yeah , up at the top , a parasitic fungi . Explain that a little more .
Speaker 2So fungi is .
Speaker 1Before we do that , you might as well say the word you're choosing to talk about is Fungi . Might as well say the word you're choosing to talk about is fungi
Parasitic Fungi and Natural Intelligence
Speaker 1.
Speaker 2So that's perfect , let's jump into it . Awesome . So today is going to be a fungi day and we just came across our first mushroom . Now that one , it's a little too . It's a bit too super mature , implying it's too old to be able to isolate it down to the species . But just for broad category , we can deduce that it is a parasitic mushroom . You see , for instance , what we're looking at is the colorization of the oak tree . You see how some parts are really pale and other parts are much darker , having the usual pigmentation of these oaks that you see around itself . But it has these whiteaks that you see around itself , but it has these white strands that come out . These are signs of white rot or brown rot . These parasitic mushrooms are the catalyst for them . There's another category of mushrooms that serve as the catalyst for decomposition and just degradation , which would be the saprophytic mushrooms . Those mushrooms are decomposals .
Speaker 1Okay , and by the term parasitic it just means it's kind of it . Is that decomposing nature of it or like what does that term mean in terms of mushroom ?
Speaker 2world ? That's a good question . So , to be more specific with that , a parasitic mushroom is a mushroom that siphons off nutrients from its host without divulging any resources back . Right , okay . But the way this parasite does it , it's just so cool . And you know , I think this is a lot of people who forage and stuff . They'd probably be aware of this , but I think some of your audience might not be . But parasitic mushrooms have really been popularized as of recent , within the last decade , because of an interesting show called the Last of Us .
Speaker 1Okay , I haven't seen it yet , but I do want to . I haven't either Like mushroom zombies or something Mush okay exactly .
Speaker 2I always get recommended , um , but yeah , they sort of take the . The theme of the show is um , apparently there's this virus , so this fungal virus that's taking over people , right ? Um , but parasitic mushrooms , we don't really need to worry because they don't tackle organisms that big . But then there's an interesting question that this brings up is generally another interesting fact is that every time we're outdoors , whether inside well , outdoors or inside , honestly , unless you're in a very close ventilated system , you're inhaling at least 15 to 30 different mushroom spores , right ? So then the question then becomes why don't mushrooms grow inside of us , right ? Yeah , yeah . So what do you think ?
Speaker 1Why don't they grow ? Maybe they don't respond to this , I think if we have a lot of acid in our body . I'm just guessing that's close .
Speaker 2That's a good guess , by the way , and it's one of the common ones . Okay , uh , individuals would go to some of the stomach acids or the biochemical makeup of our system . Yeah , but it's , it's really simple . It's just our internal body temperature oh okay , yeah , I know right so super fascinating .
Speaker 2um , but yeah , as we're completely safe from these sort of parasitic fungi . But what the mushroom , what the fungi can do and this shows part of his intelligence as well is it can , you know , permeate the soil wall of its host . Okay , right , so the reason why this is significant is because not a lot of organisms can do this . That's scary . What ends up happening ? For example , a classic , the classic parasitic fungus example is the cordyceps . The cordyceps is a fungus that grows off dead invertebrates . Think of your ants , your beetles , your smaller critters . Now , mushrooms are so cool that when a spore lands on this invertebrate , it starts excreting this enzyme . Right , and this is how the mushroom starts to grow . It excretes enzymes that are potent enough and acidic enough to break down minerals like granite and walk . Oh my gosh .
Speaker 2Dude the story of the Georgia outcrops . It's crazy how they form . They take hundreds and thousands of oh my gosh , dude . The story of the Georgia outcrops . It's crazy how they form . They take hundreds and thousands of years . But a huge part of how they form is due to the lichen and obviously the rain that helps minerals precipitate from the rock right ? Have you ever heard of the term ?
Speaker 1the solution pit , the solution pit . Yeah , no , I've not .
Speaker 2I got you so perfect . Uh , you'll be able to . I guess it's good that you have your video with you . You'll be able to . Once we get up to the mountain , you'll be able to check that .
Speaker 1Okay , very cool um , can I ask before we go any further , like you have this huge , you said a fanatic love with- fungi yeah so what led you to this , like I mean , what got you so interested in mushrooms and fungi into this world ?
Speaker 2uh , yeah , good question . Um , so I guess I my this all starts , I guess when , where I was born ? Um , I'm , you know , I guess I'm a citizen . Now , I've been in the states for as long as I can remember , um , well , since I was about 10 , okay , like , I grew up in west africa , cameroon , um , and so we were connected to . If you're not familiar where that is , it's connected to .
Speaker 1It's a western coastal is it near sierra leone ? Well , it's near nigeria . Okay , yeah , okay , yeah , very cool and so , um , I have a lot of students from nigeria . So , yeah , the last few years I have the , every year I've had at least one or two families from nigeria .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , cool small world yeah , yeah um . So you know , born in cameroon and as far as the topography and its regional um environment , it's , it's very rich , uh , biodiversity wise , because it's connected to the coast , so it's a coastal country that's also connected to the congo basin , okay , so you're not familiar .
Speaker 2That um is the second largest rainforest , okay , I didn't know yeah and so you know , growing up , whether it was going to the beach or whether it was going to the mountains like the jungle , it was all just visceral , it was all just novel and fun , a lot of learning , and this is what sort of made my identity as someone who was of nature and not really separated from it .
Speaker 1I love that it's really good .
Speaker 2Yeah , and then , just coming to the States , I grew up in Nebraska and you know , being outdoors was always part of who I was and as I got older I got a lot more into programming . Well , I always liked programming , but Like computer programming .
Speaker 1Yeah , okay .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yes , and you know it happened when I was in high school . I think I was going through a project , a programming project more in line with data science Think of machine learning stuff trying to figure out how complex algorithms work and you know I'd always been familiar with mushrooms because it was something that we did back in Cameroon . We didn't do it as much . I didn't do it when I got to the States , just because no one else was really doing it . So why would you be out there doing it ? When you're trying to quote , unquote fit in , you know .
Speaker 1Yeah , mushrooms , right , you know .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1All the cool kids aren't planting mushrooms out in the woods .
Speaker 2Exactly , and so I just let it go . And , uh , it wasn't until high school where I had this programming project and I was thinking of neural networks . I was thinking of some advanced machine learning concepts , predictive learning
Mycelial Networks and Computer Systems
Speaker 2, neural networks , and something clicked . I had had a conversation with um , some friends , and from there on , I don't know , it was just like a moment where something clicked . The mycelial network is , you know , to put it simply , it's an organism with no central nervous system that is still one of the most effective at acquiring resources . So there's a different form of intelligence going on here . And from there I thought to myself wow , whether it's computer network systems , whether it's health you know new innovative health products that could help strengthen , you know , our communities and our future , but primarily those computer network systems . Right yeah , the main question here is how do you make a network effective but not redundant ? I got you , yeah .
Speaker 1I think I saw a study . Was it in Japan ?
Speaker 2Oh yeah , where they used the slime mold the slime mold .
Speaker 1Yeah , where it was redirecting the transportation system in . Japan and was doing it in a more efficient manner than with humans that I already came up with .
Speaker 2Exactly which ?
Speaker 1is crazy because , like you said , they don't have a brain , they don't have a central nervous system .
Speaker 2Right . So what's really going on here ? Right , yeah ? And so , by the way , scientists in the UK they did the experiment again , I think in 2019 or 2020 , got the same result . Wow , yeah . So now there's two bodies of scientific communities that have been able to back this slime mold intelligence thing . That's crazy . I can send you the article too .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'd love to see that , yeah .
Speaker 2I got you , but yeah , so that's you know . From there on , it was just all emotions . For me , it was trying to figure out how these systems worked , figure out , you know where , what we can learn from them . But also , as I went into this endeavor , I knew that it would make me more of an aware person and more in line with nature , which for me was a win-win .
Speaker 1Well , like what you said earlier was that you felt like connected as a part of nature , and I recently read someone say like so often , especially in Western civilizations , we have this mindset that something we are separate from nature , that we have somehow like been placed into a world right yeah , and that but if we look at how we grow and how nature grows , like it says , you don't have a . A flower doesn't grow from from , like by like , popping into an existence . It grows from the inside out , not outside in .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , it's wonderful , yeah , and we grow the same way . We grow from something small at a cellular level all the way , and we continue to grow outwards , not from the outwards in , inwards out , that's a great way of looking at it , Andrew .
Speaker 2That's really good . Wow , yeah .
Speaker 1That's a really good way of looking at it and here's a few things that you've said that led you to where you are in terms of your connections with fungi . But was that initial connection with nature when you were in Africa and say Cameroon yes , cameroon Okay ? And then you had the almost jungle-like area , the second-line rainforest , I know the Congo Basin .
Speaker 2Yeah Congo .
Speaker 1Basin . And then there's also the connection , which is interesting , with technology and with computer systems . So it's interesting how those two things connect .
Speaker 2Exactly .
Speaker 2Well that's really what I'm trying to tease out here .
Speaker 2Right , we can all logically come down to the conclusion that knowledge is connected , for there cannot be a cause without an effect , and so knowledge is really just branch , uh , branches of , of , of truths per se , um , and so everything is connected in in this weird way , and so it's so .
Speaker 2The reason why I wanted to mention this is because part of our modern civilization , what we've been able to really do well , is delineate and become a lot more effective at delineation , which is just a process of , you know , parsing out responsibilities and jobs so people can be experts in specific roles . Okay , right ? So at this point now , I mean , we have doctors for the foot , like we have orthos that just take care of the foot , right , these are your foot orthos , yeah , say , like there's specialists on your foot . This is great , but I don't think everyone has a foot problem , right ? Yeah , that's true . And so , in our quest for specialization , we've sort of forgot how to trace back and how to reason from first principles beyond certain concepts that are just rigid in their fields themselves , because a lot of principles can be applied across how do you put it ?
Speaker 1almost like a holistic mindset . Is that kind of what ?
Speaker 2you're thinking , looking at things from a more global perspective than looking at it in such a specialized way yes , that's yes , that's exactly what I'm talking about , and so it's the balance of the of the two that actually , I believe , leads to fortified understanding , and fortified
Arabia Mountain's History and Ecology
Speaker 2understanding is the knowledge and the understanding acquired that you can attack it and defend it from any which angle . It's really understanding . It's like a first principle approach , but a lot of things are more connected than people give it credit for right . For example , you look at something like our nervous system , our spinal cord branches out to our nerves and you know this spinal cord is held within a highway .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2Right , that's our spine . That's why the spine is important . Yeah , you have to protect it for service . Yeah , it's the most important organ system in our body , right , because it connects up to our brain and that's what . Okay , and so your spinal cord connects up to your brain and that's sort of your CPU or your central processing unit . There , and you know , from the spine branches off the nerves and then the nerves go into the auxiliary appendages and organs and turn around and come all the way back into the spine .
Speaker 1Yes , and it's just those . Signals are going back and forth constantly .
Speaker 2Yes , it's just beautiful highway . But then the same process is replicated with our , with the brain functions and how the synapses and dendrites exchange information and how they're designed themselves . Wow , well , that's interesting . And the crazy thing too is that these patterns we keep seeing replicated in nature over and over again , Whether it's the mycelial network , and how it works . Right , it works sort of like a neural network , and we create a neural network so we could emulate the brain function . And lo and behold , the mycelial network we're figuring out more and more . It's not just as complex as our brain function , as the human brain function , but it's weird because it's complex and stupidly simple at the same time . So at what levels of abstraction do things become redundant ?
Speaker 1I got you Okay .
Speaker 2How do we yeah ?
Speaker 1Because if you think you make things too complex , at that point it's unnecessary , like if there's too many networks . In fact they can make it more difficult .
Speaker 2More difficult to exchange resources , to adapt , and so , yeah , yeah , it's phenomenal what we can realize when we try to understand the principles and the causes behind the fields that we ourselves think are interesting , because oftentimes those principles are more so just echoes of broader fields that are connected to that field itself and so I think I've heard and you can clarify this you probably have a lot more detail here that trees themselves um have a natural way of nutrient exchange using the mycelium networks like where um they .
Speaker 1If , let's say , one tree is deficient of certain things , there's actually a communication system under the ground exactly , I actually use this a fungi yeah , super cool , right , yeah , um , so I think that's the .
Speaker 2What you're referring to is the uh , the mycorrhizal , um , uh , relationship between the root system of the tree and the mycelium , which is the body of the fungi . And it's really cool because what these mushrooms , what the mycelium does , is , it's a little thread that's , you know , one cell wall thick . It's covered in chitin , which is the material that the shells of ants and crabs are made out of , and it really has no natural competitors . So this thing is just digging on the ground , man , no eyes , no , no nose , nothing . Well , there's something , but we're gonna figure it out . Um , and so it , when it approaches an uh , a tree that it can work with , it , can form a symbiose with um , it lets off a given chemical and the root is giving off a similar chemical .
Speaker 2This is how these these is how these organisms find themselves underground . Hey , how are you ? And so once the chemicals are being released and they realize that , hey , we're going to be good friends , maybe for life too , the tree , the root , literally lowers its cell wall , its protective cell wall that it has , and lets the mycelium enter the cell wall of that root and it starts making its way throughout and filling its cell , the exterior of the cell , with mycelium . That's amazing .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2So roughly 80 to 90% of trees around the globe are connected to a fungal system , and so you know , this gives us a new meaning to the phrase of well , everything is alive . The forest is alive . It's constantly communicating .
Speaker 1And , as you mentioned earlier , we've said , I think , once or twice there's no brain here , there's no central nervous system .
Speaker 2Who's ?
Speaker 1making these decisions . And so you think , like what you just said is that there's like a cell , the cell wall is actually opening itself up to connect with another organism , but there's nothing that's like thinking about this and saying , okay , today I'm going to make this decision it's like done on the cellular level , which , when I was in high school , the class that I think I struggled the most with was in biology . Was that whole thing about cells , the mitochondria , yeah , and that whole thing like .
Speaker 1It seems so abstract to me and but I think really that's the heart of so much of things . It's like when you get down to that level , it's almost like things , or it's like there are many um organisms within each cell that make all these things are happening . That really that's where the it's not brain power , but that's the best way we could describe it .
Speaker 2It's like the intelligence , the intelligence .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's like a simple intelligence , but it's enough to like each decision . Like my skin cell has a function . Yep , yep , it's doing something versus my brain . Cells are different than the cells in my stomach . They each have a particular job and a function , but all of them together are somehow making up me . Yeah , but it's just so crazy to think that that's something that exists .
Speaker 2Well then , you know , I think , if you want to get a little bit more theoretical and abstract here , fundamentally what we're saying is that ingrained within DNA is information . Yeah , what sort of information ? Information that stays first off . But also not just a certain , not just any kind of information . It's , whether through trial and fire , but it's been tested . It's weathered through trial and fire , but it's been tested . It's effective , it's um , it's um , I guess it's the .
Speaker 2You can look at DNA as like a hard disk or a hard drive . I mean this stuff in a given seed , all its future and its universe has already been determined . Take a seed of wheat . Right , yes , the seed is put into the ground and obviously it'll change forms , but that seed alone is not going to become an apple , it's going to be wheat . Yeah , it's been programmed , it's been programmed in its DNA .
Speaker 2And so then , you know , we think to ourselves why do this ? Right , like this may be getting to abstract , but are we just going to talk it up to nature and evolution , as far as just organisms adapting and forming systems that you know stay because they survive , or is there really a universal fabric at play here , because everything has to be connected to something at some level . Maybe it's the degrees of abstraction at which we're trying to figure out where the intelligence is starting from , because it's sort of a catch-22 . You go so granular and then you can still look at the , the sky and and see complex astrological systems and intelligence at play . Yeah , so at what level are we going to be able to find out more ? Like you know , it's those mysteries .
Speaker 2Yes , that's what keeps me up at night ?
Speaker 1yeah , andrew , that's . I do find that , and it's a common thread right now , especially in the media . The topics I've had recently is it is that mystery that actually helps us start as to one , be curious about the world and to seek out and learn .
Speaker 1But it's also that same mystery , mysteries , I would say , that help drive the stories that we tell and the reason that we connect to our history and to tell those stories to next generations and to go out in nature and explore Absolutely . If we didn't have those mysteries that exist , you know the things we don't understand , then we would be stagnant . So I think that's what you're bringing up , is , when you get to that abstract level of things , it's , it's what drives us to figure out all the things in our world , the universe , yeah yeah , that's a great way of putting it like you said all the way up into the universe and you can .
Speaker 2You know you can definitely get lost in the mire , and so it's , it's a dance . It's a dance too , by the way . Um , so we just walked from , uh , the arabia mountain nature preserve , okay , uh , which is about a mile and a half , uh , 1.2 miles , I'd say , from the nature center to the kiosk at the base of arabia mountain , right , uh , the reason why we parked over there was so I , we could walk over here , so I could show you what that looks like . Very cool , usually , you can see how this lot is much smaller On the weekends . It gets busy .
Speaker 2And so individuals have to park all the way over there , but if it's your first time you might not know where Right . So from the big parking lot at the preserve , it wasn't a long walk before we got to the base of the mountain .
Speaker 1Right , let's talk about arabia a little bit . I know we haven't done that much , so we've been walking on it , so why don't we say what is this place , how , what ? Maybe a little history , or yeah about you know maybe what we're about to see here coming up awesome , uh .
Speaker 2So yeah , arabia mountain is really a hidden gem around the atlanta metro area . It's um protected under the arabian Mountain National Heritage Area . Now , a heritage area
Solution Pits and Endangered Species
Speaker 2is an area , a conservation area , which has been protected for its historical , ecological and cultural reasons . Right , and so it's not just a nature park , it's history , it's culture , it's ecology , it's conservation , it's all these things rolled up into one . And so Congress finally gave the approval , I think in the what 40 , 30 years ago , when Arabia became Arabia Mountain . Because formerly , not a lot of people would know , but Arabia Mountain was a quarrying territory . It was ran by the davidson arabia quarrying company , which was at the time , during the 1940s to the 1960s , uh , the leading global export of granite .
Speaker 1Oh , really dude . I kid you not right .
Speaker 2It's so cool , um , but you'll see remnants of that as we walk through the mountains . So much rock has been lifted , thousands and thousands of um of granite and nice right , which is the sort of rock that we have ? It's ? It's a more condensed form of granite , but okay , um , hundreds and thousands of of pounds have been lifted from this mountain , and at one point it used to rival stone mountain . Would you believe that ? Oh , wow , you wouldn't , is it when you see it now ?
Speaker 2um , but the size of it yes through querying and obviously through hundreds of years and thousands of years of erosion as well . Um , you know , it's uh , I don't like to say it's a shell of what it once was , because it's still at its magnitude , still very powerful , um , and has a lot to offer . And so , yeah , that's arabian mountain , that's Arabian Mountain . That's why it's important , not just for its ecology , its history , its culture . You still have a lot of .
Speaker 2You still have indigenous communities that you know use the mountain for their rituals , for their events Really Okay thing about the arabian mountain area is that there wasn't a significant , there wasn't a major um native american um community that was living in this area . Uh , you had generally two main uh groups that presided mostly in the north east , the northwest georgia and the southeast georgia , and the northwest would be the cherokee and the northeast , I believe , would be the Blackfoot Indians . And like correct me if I'm wrong , I may be getting the Blackfoot , but there's a Black in the name .
Speaker 1But yeah , two major . I think I don't want to say people it's okay , if not , I'll check and fix that .
Speaker 2But two major native uh , indigenous groups here , um , and they used arabia in this general area for a trading ground , okay , and so they would come over here . This was neutral territory where trade , trade and market could happen , right , um , but we're here at arabia . Now it is 2025 . What are we doing here ? Right , we're going on a walk , and , as we go up , we're going to see the beautiful and endangered species that are native to Georgia and also , on top of that , native to South Georgia . Right , that's the crazy part is that Georgia is blessed with a lot of biodiversity and just even in our state alone , there is a lot to explore and there is a lot of different microclimates , and we'll see even some of that here , and so , yeah , we're going to go ahead and get started walking . All right , that works Trail , which is the path all caps P-A-T-H , which is the paved concrete trail that Arabia Mountain has , that stretches for 30 miles , whether you're into biking , whether you're into walking for a long time and it sits right on the edge of , I think , three counties .
Speaker 1It looks like there was DeKalb , Rockdale and Henry .
Speaker 2Yes , Okay , wow , okay good .
Speaker 1Nice , all right , someone's a teacher . I was reading a little bit , you know , making sure I knew what I was talking about good stuff .
Speaker 2So , by the way , we um have this sign up here just because , as I said , we have endangered species and so , uh , we want to keep . We want to obviously protect it and keep the generations of these ecological systems going , and you picked a really great time for the hike as well , too , because you're here at one of the best times , spring . We have one of the most important endangered species that resides in the southeast or the Georgia area , which we're looking at right now it's the red succulents .
Speaker 1We see over there . Really interesting . As we walked past earlier , I was noticing it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yes , yes and so , um well , I'll tell you more about these succulents , but as far as just , uh , walking on , walking at the mountains , and just etiquette , we try to stay out of the holes or the little divots . Those are solution pits , these are solution pits . We try to stay out of the solution pits because here's a perfect example . You see how this one barely has any vegetation , right ? Great , let's come over here then Take a look at this . It's beautiful , isn't it ? Yeah , so what's the difference from that pit to this one ? There's not much , just a couple hundred years difference . Oh , wow , what ends up happening is the rain that falls precipitates minerals out from the granite . But around here , you see the lichen , and let me show you if I can see a good culture of lichen . Well , this is mostly algae , but I'm trying to find the , really , because they precipitate minerals as well too .
Speaker 1Maybe up that way , is that it ?
Speaker 2Yeah , let's try it .
Speaker 1I don't know , you're the expert .
Speaker 2This would be more algae . I'm trying to really find the lichen for you , and so it might be . It's always everywhere , but essentially the lichen is a symbiotic relationship between algae and fungi . They formed millions of years ago and never saw a reason to separate , and so algae , this lichen , is everywhere , and it's one of the main reasons why these solution pits form um , these bigger divots over time , because the minerals from the rock and the enzymes being excreted by the lichen it's a chemical solution of acidic compounds that slowly deteriorate . The rock over time , right Gives it that crater . Look Right .
Speaker 2So , that's why it's a solution pit , because it's literally a solution of chemicals . And so what happens is that after hundreds of years , you know this solution pit keeps on being broken down and in and the hole , the divot gets bigger and wider , and when wind comes , sand starts to come on , and this is your first forestation phase . And so these succulents right , these succulents , we see , they're called diamorphous and they're endangered because they only grow in these first generation ecosystems . Right , very little soil .
Speaker 1I can imagine . Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and so from usually they're one of the first to show up and then we see taller things like the grass as more soil gets piled on . But this is why the solution pits are very important . Whenever you're you know , hiking Georgia and you're in the outcrops , try to stay , try to step , try not to step in those solution pits , right , because you're affecting species that aren't just endangered but will struggle to grow back and regenerate once they've been disturbed and it sounds like it takes a really long time to develop to that point .
Speaker 2Right , and they're pretty . Yes , it's hundreds and thousands of years before a natural solution pit is big enough and has enough depth to start housing its first generation vegetation , so humans can come in and destroy something quickly .
Speaker 1that took .
Speaker 2Hundreds and thousands of years .
Speaker 1Well , yes , we have that ability .
Speaker 2Yes , we do , we do , and you know well . I guess the good thing that we can always fall on is that nature corrects it's true , yeah , there's that balancing act . Yep . And then if you'd want to look at it more statistically , in the long term everything is normal , right . Yeah , so everything becomes okay . But that's long term . And humans well , we're great at thinking short term . That's like I'll just Right now .
Speaker 2Yeah , so I'll just leave that there , um , but yeah , so you know what could definitely help with mitigating some of our um oversight , as we're being very proactive in the modern times , trying to build new technology , conveniences and systems ? It's , I think , nature . It's learning and understanding nature and being more in alignment with it . Because you know , at a certain point there are the systems that we started learning from first was nature . The systems that we started learning from first was nature , whether it's yoga , whether it's you know the some even you know health care , like our medicines yeah , I agree , yep , penicillin and the like , and all these antibiotics , or whether it's something like even the Internet , the World Wide Web , internet , the world wide web . You know , a lot of our systems are derived from natural organisms and natural systems , which we created a whole field out of as biomimicry . Right , okay , but not just in utilizing these systems for for certain deterministic goals , but in the process of trying to understand the systems you understand yourself .
Speaker 2I like that so it's a search and a reflection .
Speaker 1Part of the with the podcast , I use a symbol . Often it's even in the logo of a spiral , and the reason I often use that is because the deeper you go into something , but particularly nature , what you come back out of with it is , you know , either internally within yourself as a person , yeah or as you go into nature , you go deep in and you come back with something else yeah yeah , you know , and I think that's .
Speaker 1That's a lot of . What you're saying is that you know , nature gives us this ability to learn from it and to better improve ourselves as we experience it yes , absolutely , that's a great summary , um , but yeah , dude .
Speaker 2So you know , I'm super excited about the future because , as things get more chaotic and as civilization ever builds more momentum , nature is just always going to be here . Yeah , it's like you know , we can , we can freaking blast rockets off to mars . Nature is going to be here . Yeah , it's gonna do its thing , you know right . And so the the sooner we we take care of it , the sooner we learn to understand the subtler systems that may seem far below us , um the more we're able to add value from a fundamental level to our natural , to our systems , or our biological systems , our mental systems , our psychological systems . And this just has so much of an upside on people that , hmm , that's so much of an upside on people that , hmm , well , just , like we mentioned earlier , with the tree and the mushroom network right it's a cooperation , it's a team effort , you know , and we learn a lot in that regard , because I'm actually reading a book right now by john green .
Speaker 1it's called um everything is tuberculosis . Oh nice , say in the book , um it's called tuberculosis . Yeah , um , it's by john green and he um , he's talking about , like how tuberculosis is actually completely curable , right , and the issue dangerous . Yeah , so right now , like since the 1950s , it has been curable , but it's still the number one killer in the world .
Speaker 1Over 1.5 million people die every year from it we ask ourselves why yeah , and he says the main reason why is because
Nature's Lessons for Human Systems
Speaker 1it costs too much for many of the countries who are dealing with it . Who , who he particularly is focusing on Sierra Leone , where they have a high level of tuberculosis . And he said that it's a money concern . Right , but globally it makes more sense for us to eradicate this disease , but we are not doing it because it financially doesn't benefit the people who are selling the drugs . But , as we mentioned earlier , just like the network of those mushrooms , and the trees and how they work together and cooperate .
Speaker 1They're doing it because it's necessary . It's important for us to do .
Speaker 2It's an inbuilt cooperation within the survival code , which humans don't necessarily have , but at the same time , we're one of the only species that can cooperate across genetic boundaries .
Speaker 1Well , that's the part that seems so interesting is that we are part of this system . We're part of nature .
Speaker 1And I think that's where we've caused the issue . We've somehow came to the conclusion that we are separate the issue . We've somehow came to the conclusion that we are separate . Yes , and by doing that , when we've now realized , we've forced ourself to now prioritize certain groups of people over others , or super so people who have money versus those who don't , and it's it's really um , it's sad to me to see that we can't cooperate enough to help those who really need it , especially those who are dying by the millions , not just of tuberculosis , but of many systematic issues that we could be working to improve if we , like you said , learn from nature and went from there .
Speaker 2Man , yeah , that's a loaded statement by the way .
Speaker 2You got a lot of people are going to feel something about that . Yeah , you got a lot of that's . A lot of people are going to feel something about that . But just to add some more points and references to your first statement , man . Um , it would be in our best interest to have a healthy , happy health , a healthy and happy world . That's in everyone's best interest . But that's if everyone wanted the best for everyone else . But in the modern age , modern civilization , there's just so many ways to quote-unquote , be unethical and to cheat and to steal , and I don't even blame it on something like capitalism . It's something that may be a little more natural free markets , free exchange . But when you start working with , you know mispriced externalities , which are just services that are priced without accounting for the other external resources that might go into this service . Think of something like gasoline . Right , If we hike the price up of gasoline ?
Speaker 2well probably less people would drive . But you know , there's just so many ways in our modern world to steal and cheat and not be aligned with the natural systems , because there's not necessarily this consequence in this kickback for the us . I mean , we're propellers of this . We're the most advanced , um , well , one of the the most advanced nations when it comes to modern medicine , but yet we spend the most , yeah , on opiates and medication . Right , there is , there's not , there's not , um , these things aren't exclusive yeah , it makes sense these things are .
Speaker 2It's there's a dance , um , and the health care , medical industry is trillions of dollars , man , I mean millions , are being spent just lobbying for certain medications , certain , certain policies , certain , you know , certain pills that aren't going to come out till next year . But you know , we need the doctors to know that , hey , this is the recommended drug right for this disease and diseases are , well you know , yes , for what it's worth . I think modern healthcare its biggest benefit is in our advancement or innovation , and its biggest downfall is in the advancement and innovation not being in alignment with the overall health philosophies .
Speaker 1I agree . I think that's what you hit . There was the most important part philosophies , I agree .
Speaker 2I think that's what you , what you hit there was the most yeah , important part . You know it fails the hippocratic oath or something I think these doctors have to take when they go into med school and they swear that you know they'll look out for the best interest of their patients .
Speaker 1But it's interesting .
Speaker 1I'll be interviewing soon a doctor who works with in the gas gastro field and so it'll be interesting to see because I'd love to hear his perspective in that world , because I know there's so many barriers to health care . And I mean I hear my wife works in the medical field too . She does ultrasounds , and so she often will say that insurance companies , or whatever it may be , can be a barrier to actually doing the right things and making the right choices , because you have to go through what someone else says who weren't even doctor's decisions .
Speaker 2Right , dude . You know what's crazy , though , when that thing happened with the quote , unquote , luigi guy it was crazy how you had such discord how you had such schisms in perspective on what people thought was right and wrong . Oh for sure yeah . And this just tells you what's resonating in the belly of society , how these companies are viewed , and this is usually a good spot , by the way .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's a tough one because , you're right , that's a very tricky scenario .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Oh wow , this is a cool spot I know right .
Speaker 2So okay , you can go ahead and just , that's okay . Yeah , it spot , I know right . So okay , you can go ahead and just okay .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's very peaceful sometimes I I meditate here .
Speaker 2Yeah , you know short little breaks . Other times I see some pretty cool mushrooms um on the side , but it looks as though we have a lot of moss today yes , yes a lot of different types of moss and I'll try to point some out for you Some reindeer hair caps and , honestly , we've been getting more into . We have a lot of amphibians at Arabia as well too , but this is a very peaceful and tranquil area .
Speaker 1What type of mushrooms do you usually find through here ?
Speaker 2Mostly amanitas , which are very poisonous , and , yeah , mostly amanitas Other gilled mushrooms , amanitas , which are very poisonous . Um , and yeah , mostly amanitas other guild mushrooms . Amanitas are common polypores or decomposers . A lot of polypores are decomposers . I should say they're found a lot , because decomposition is always happening , right , um , and then you know , primarily your guilt yeah , a lot of your gilts mushrooms and the Amanita genus and the . I guess we get some milk caps Lactarius . So , by the way , this is cool . This is turkey tail . It's medicinal , but it's super mature and it's too old . This is Tremides versicolor . By the way , it's been clinically researched as well in the West , and so the indigenous documentation lines up with the clinical studies . This is a non-specific immune system modulator . Per UCLA's health research . In 2022 , they did a test study with a thousand cancer patients , and the ones that had utilized a turkey tail in conjunction with their chemotherapy recovered much faster .
Speaker 2So this was the West putting a golden stamp on clinical trials , admitting or accepting and agreeing to a lot of documentation that we've had for hundreds of years , that , hey , this is good for you . It modulates your immune system . If it's deficient ,
Hikes of Georgia and Future Projects
Speaker 2bolsters it . If it's already adequate , it obviously modulates .
Speaker 1That's awesome yeah , well , let's , let's have a turkey , tail turkey , so that's awesome . Yeah , well , I want to actually , um , we'll probably finish the next 10 minutes . Five or 10 minutes , uh , so I'd like to talk about specifically your foraging trips that you do um , yeah is it through hikes of Georgia ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so it's through hikes of Georgia . Um , and you know , hikes of Georgia started two years ago , man , when you started it , I started it yeah . It's an well . I started it , but I got a lot of support and motivation from the Rangers at Arabia . Okay , Honestly , dude , I think they just got tired of me talking to them about mushrooms , You're like you got to go talk to somebody else , so that's , that's my thought .
Speaker 2But it worked . And you know , uh , the first couple of months , no , you know , no interactions , no tickets whatsoever . But then , after the fourth month , it started picking up and after a year it was something that I was doing for a hobby I literally had just , you know , put up this group . Uh , hadn't even had a website when I started out . I'm like , okay , do you guys want to learn about mushrooms ? Like I'm here , um , just come say hi , let's go foraging . And you know , from there that's when things started picking up .
Speaker 2I know , dude , this was the last , because so I , I like building systems , you know , and this isn't my first business , um , but this is my first low scale , profitable and effective business . That's in alignment , it's almost too natural . I had some other businesses I was working on at the time and I just did this for fun . Yeah , you know it's like , yeah , I'm working on at the time and I just did this for fun . You know it's like , yeah , I'm working on my data science course or I'm working , you know , as a ranger , I'm working in healthcare . Let me just go out and forge . Maybe forge with someone else if they want to learn .
Speaker 1Yeah , but that really worked out well and it resonated how a lot of these things work is in a with an almost organic fashion things that are supposed to happen happen because they they are natural to you , they're natural to what you enjoy and they connect with people that you um have similar interests yes , and so it's all about just learning how to listen and being observant too , noticing , because I've actually watched you at the time . As we're going through here , you're kind of watching and noticing . Oh , dude , all over heads always on a swivel yes and yeah .
Speaker 2So now in our second year , we're looking at different phases of scaling . Now , as most recently , one of the biggest accomplishments that we made was I had to actually turn Hikes to Georgia into an LLC about five months ago , specifically because , as I started out , the first year was all about the mushroom workshops , and that's great .
Speaker 2But what ends up happening is that when you do things , when you're fully in alignment and fully passionate about the things you do , your character , your everything permeates through , and so data science was no different . Okay , what ended up happening was that , as I went through the workshop , I well , obviously , as a ranger , I was able to work with a lot more nature organizations , and they started , we started discussing handling their data right . So now hikes to georgia .
Speaker 2Um , we're working on a few government contracts right now just for data science projects yeah , dude , that's interesting I know , I know well , a huge part of this is thanks to arabia and uh , they've gotten me in touch with so many . They've given me endless love and endless accountability and leverage , so I'm very grateful for them . But yeah , at this point now , man , it's just so busy and I need to hire a bigger team now because we're working with what I love right , that's exciting .
Speaker 1The data part .
Speaker 2I love the workshops , I love the visceralness of you know , being outdoors and foraging and teaching and educating . But dude , I'm a scientist .
Speaker 1I need that data .
Speaker 2And being able to not only work with this data for nature conservationists , but Hikes to Georgia is aiming to be at the forefront of data management conservation for most of Georgia's nature conservation organizations , so we recently acquired a domain , the Ecological Data Alliance . This year , that's probably what I'm going to be spending my majority of my time into , because , long-term , this is what I want to do . Right , I'm a data scientist and I'm going to go as far as I can in the field so I can utilize the research of mycology , first and foremost , and other ecological systems in order to build better algorithms and better innovative solutions , whether that be products or systems that can help the community , whether that be products or systems that can help the community .
Speaker 1You're bringing two worlds together . I like that , using the world of nature to connect and help nature through that , which is really cool , thank you . Well , I'm going to actually we're going to close out here , but before I do , I just want to say thank you . But I always ask the last question , and you answered a little bit of this already , but I always say well , we've been walking , what's your next step after this ? And you answered really a lot of it . But also , how can ? If people wanted to connect with you or be part of Hikes of Georgia , or learn even more about Rabia , you know what do they need to do ?
Speaker 2Oh , that's a great question , andrew . So first I would say , just follow us on social media . I , at this point now , I'm still handling the majority of social media and I would say , if you can try to reach out on Instagram or , yeah , try to reach out on Instagram and , if sure , facebook if you must . I check Instagram the most and I actually run the personal Instagram , the Facebook , the TikTok I have some virtual assistants that sometimes get on there . So , personally , reach out to Hikes to Georgia and you can find us on TikTok , facebook , youtube , instagram at Hikes of Georgia . That's all one word and obviously our Gmail . You can reach out to us via Gmail as well . If you're someone who's interested in , you know , learning about foraging and wanting to do it yourself here in Georgia , I'm here for you . This is why Hikes to Georgia was created . We're in a blessed biodiverse state and you know this is the encouragement that you need , right ?
Speaker 2The field of mushrooms and mycology it's very vast and broad . There's a lot we don't know . So for scientists it's very interesting and it's wonderful , but just where your average nature lover and nature conservationist , it's also a wonderful topic and a wonderful field to get into , because there are a handful of mushrooms that are hands down , one of the best medicinal supplements you can use for your system organically . And you know . Other mushrooms are so good that you know they turn carnivores to herbivores the lion's mane man , the lion's mane taco oh my God , dude , I still have dreams about it .
Speaker 2But , yeah , yeah , if you want to learn about that , feel free to reach us , to us on social media or send um , send us an email . And then , obviously , uh , my heist of georgia is an . It's more education centric , and so if they do ever have questions or they find mushrooms and they want to send some pictures and get some expert identification support from me and my team , they can email or social media , right , and then , apart from that , that's the Hikes to Georgia side of things . Sign up for our newsletter .
Speaker 2But , with that being said , I am first and foremost a ranger at Arabia Mountain and so if you do ever stop by on the weekends , you know , feel free just to ask , you know where's Ranger Darling and if I'm around , I'll come over there and I'll give you a little walk or I'll , you know , give you my greetings and we can talk some mushrooms , talk nature , talk data . And , for those who are more interested in research and the technological side of things , please get in touch with me via email , primarily so we can establish a communication channel for collaboration . We're always looking to collaborate . So thank you , andrew , for giving me the time , for giving me this platform . I hope this gets people more excited about the field of mycology , nature data and just overall the intelligence of nature and our own integration and alignment with that . It's very important but subtle .
Speaker 1Yeah Well , thank you for this and introducing me to this place . It's beautiful and I'll be back many times now and I hope everyone gets a chance to come here . It's a really cool place and thank you again for
Closing Reflections on Fungi
Speaker 1all this information . This was a wonderful conversation and , um , I've learned . I've learned a ton , and I expect to learn more Um mushrooms are fascinating and um fun guy world is fascinating . It really is . I'm telling you and uh , thank you again for doing this my pleasure .
Speaker 2All right , thanks again , awesome .
Speaker 1Thank you for listening to this deep in the woods episode with Ranger Darling . I'll leave you with a quote from Paul Stamets , an expert mycologist I see the mycelium as the earth's natural internet , a consciousness with which we might be able to communicate the neurological network of nature . I'd like to give a heartfelt thank you to Darling for sharing this walk and his wisdom with me today , and a big thanks to Ryan Cherry for the beautiful music that carries us through each episode . Most of all , thank you for listening . I hope you join me again next time on Deep in the Woods . Thank you .