More Clients Less Hustle

14-Day Challenge: How to Improve Sales for Your Business & Attract More Clients with Denis Champagne (Day 10)

• Caroline Balinska + Denis Champagne • Season 1 • Episode 16

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🔥 Ever wondered how mastering sales calls could transform your business? This episode is a MUST-LISTEN!

Sales expert Denise Champagne drops 30+ years of wisdom on conquering call fear, building trust through voice, and shifting your mindset from pushy to personal.

You'll discover: 
💎 Tactics for genuine executive connections 
💎 Crafting curiosity-driving messages 
💎 Leveraging LinkedIn the right way 
💎 Making those crucial first 10 seconds count

Denise shares authentic strategies for effective discovery calls in any industry - from SaaS to coaching. With real examples, you'll learn to ask the right questions, document responses, and execute a structured system for MORE clients with LESS hustle!

Don't miss this electrifying episode packed with practical tips to grow your business confidently and efficiently. Listen now! 🎧

Bio
With over 30+ years of self-employment and sales experience, Denis is seasoned in B2B Sales and now coaches sales executives and professionals to reach their commercial goals by an outbound/inbound approach ensuring sustainable prospecting skills development and strong Web conversion.

Denis has developed and implemented the TEAMMSâ’¸ method, a proven sales model that integrates old-school sales practices with modern-era methods, leveraging technology to enable sales professionals to predictably grow their pipeline, win more deals, and drive customer success. He has coached and trained over 1000 reps in his own call center and for various clients on five continents, achieving pipeline growth of 200-1700% per year. As a former elite cycling athlete and indoor racquet sports professional, and now a strength lifter, Denis brings the mindset of preparation and training to help sales teams operate with the mindset of elite athletes. He specializes in coaching and training executives in managing account executives or SDRs, BDRs who are mandated to achieve their goals. His priority is to help sales teams develop the confidence, consistency, discipline, relevance, courage, and eloquence to effectively prospect by reaching their quota.

Get In Touch With Denis
https://lotuscomm.com

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to More Clients, less Hustle, the podcast where we break barriers, defy labels and empower busy entrepreneurs like you to soar to new heights. Get ready to shatter the glass ceiling as we dive deep with experts and transformative coaching calls, unveiling secrets to success and unlocking your true potential. Join us on this journey of growth, empowerment and limitless possibilities. Let's pave the way for more clients, less hustle. I'm your host, Caroline Balinska. Hi everyone, welcome back to the podcast. I'm very excited we have a guest here today talking all about calls and discovery calls. This is going to be an amazing interview because Denise Champagne has a lot of history when it comes to taking sales calls. So if anyone knows the answers to the questions that I have today, it's definitely Denis. So, denis, nice to meet you. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2:

Yes, thank you so much. I appreciate the invitation.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. Now, today is part of the 14-day challenge, and I wanted to talk about sales calls, discovery calls, and the reason for that is that I know that you know the answers to this, but I think a lot of people out there don't understand. They don't understand what calls can do for your business, and I think that there's a lot of information out there that is quite putting people in a position where they're not understanding how much more success they can get in their business. There's a lot of information out there that I hear from people and I think, no, that's such bad advice. Do not listen to that.

Speaker 1:

So what I wanted to do was ask you a few questions where you can actually help me understand better what people are doing wrong, what we can do better and how we can get more sales. So before we get into it, let me let you introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your history, because you've got over 30 years experience in this industry. So, if you can tell us a bit about yourself and let us know more about you, Okay, well, I've been self-employed for 34 years.

Speaker 2:

I had a telemarketing company. I trained over a thousand people in my office, my telemarketing business. So using the phone is something we had no choice in the nineties and so voice is super powerful. And then I was into corporate communications and then I went into prospecting or building businesses and developing what we call top of funnel pipeline for people, businesses and developing what we call top of funnel pipeline for people, and that's where you get new clients or new client acquisition activities, which is the beginning of a sales process or the beginning of a buying process, for a client is reaching out. And I've been in different roles and different positions as vice president by mandate process over the last 20 years, and now I'm spending more time coaching, consulting sales managers, sales VPs and the reps themselves, coaching them individually so they can become really competent and confident in achieving those goals of getting new business in the pipeline.

Speaker 1:

So just a question on that Do you find that you have many people that come to you with the fear of sales calls, and do you find it easy to help them? Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Fear, it's the unknown. When you don't know what you're doing, it doesn't matter if it's the phone or diving into a pool or getting on a bike. My wife doesn't know how to ride a bike. Of course she'll be afraid when she gets on first. But it's through learning, it's through being coached. That's why you know anything can be learned if you are willing to be coached. So the secret ingredient is become coachable and you can open up the door to your life, to all kinds of skills become coachable.

Speaker 1:

I love, I love that. I've heard that said by many people and I think that that's just nice to remember that, that we need to remember that all the time because I think we get too stuck into. It's our business, we know what we're doing and we're really good at our business, but being coachable, I think, is really important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, want to learn. Develop the desire to want to learn. Maybe at the beginning you were afraid, but you don't want to be afraid. You don't know how to become unafraid. So just open yourself to someone. You have to find that match, someone who you like, that you trust right. That can help you and get you going.

Speaker 1:

Well, what I like about you so far is that we always have this sort of feeling that you know, salespeople are usually slimy salespeople and they're just trying to sell you something you think of the used car salesman and straight away, since I met you, you don't give off that vibe at all. You come across as a very genuine, very nice person. So not only would you be very successful with doing your calls, but also with training people, because you don't have that sort of arrogance that some people have. So that's really nice, thank you. That's why you're so successful at your job and that's why I wanted to have you on here, because I heard that you are very good at what you do. So thank you.

Speaker 1:

My first question to you is what is the difference that uh calls can make to a business? So I think that there's a lot of people out there now that say oh, I want to automate my business. I don't want to have to do any work in my business. How can I automate it? But let's go back to what a call could actually do to help people coaches, service providers with their sales.

Speaker 2:

So if we assume that people who want to build a business or want to have clients paying clients, those paying clients will only pay or buy predicated on the basis that there is some trust that you will deliver what they want to have as a solution to the problem that they have, what they want to have as a solution to the problem that they have, if we assume that and we take that for granted as a foundation or as a basis, automating and getting a bot to send something today in the world of business, with the advent of technology, whilst they can be useful in certain contexts, it all comes back down to trust between two people. So lifting the phone or leaving a video of yourself establishes a human connection and, at the end of the day, that's what's going to be the differentiating factor whether people are likely to want to have a conversation with you, because if they can't have a conversation, live as a human being, they won't buy. They need to have someone to reach out to. So bots and automatons and various what they call avatars, it's cute, but it won't secure a relationship with clients. I have clients that have been with me 15, 20 years, but I'm there to serve, so we have to have that spirit of service and establish a human connection through the human voice. We underestimate the power of our own human voice. People feel you, that's what they want to know before they engage more. So if you don't do calls, you reduce or you limit your potential success. That's very foundational. I have not seen many people succeed with bots because at the end of the day, someone's got to get on the phone and speak to. You feel that, and right now, with AI, it's scaringly deceitful.

Speaker 2:

I realized I was talking to a. I didn't even realize myself who's an expert. I said at the end of the day, when I asked a question off topic, I said, jesus Murphy, I'm talking to a bloody robot and I just hung up. I got pissed off. So I said, jesus Murphy, I'm talking to a bloody robot and I just hung up, I got pissed off. So I want to talk to someone. I want to be able to exchange and have those nuances and the confidence in your voice is going to make all the difference. Your willingness to serve is going to make all the difference. So a phone call, a voice. There's a French expression your voice is your second face. Although you cannot hide your face, you can hide your face. You can hide your voice.

Speaker 1:

No, and I think that's the thing is that there's a few people out there that are selling automation and I'm very much into automation and AI, but I talk about automating 80% of your business. I never talk about automating 100% and I hear these people saying, oh, you'll never need to get on a sales call ever again and you'll never need to hire someone to do your sales calls. And to me, I think that's first of all, I think they're lying, I don't think that they're actually doing it. Or the other thing is you might get a couple of new clients like that, but then think of all the clients that you're missing out on because they're not going to work with you because you didn't get on a call or, like you said, do a video for them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the potential, the potential is huge, I think. So at what point you did mention it before? Top of sales funnel, I think. So at what point you did mention it before top of the sales funnel, where would you usually recommend the call? To be Really at the very top of the sales funnel or sort of down the progress a little bit. How do you?

Speaker 2:

Well, there's a combination of factors to make the decision. How you feel is a very important one how you you feel, because that's what they're going to feel. So if you feel confident, you're excited. As as far as close as Lee yesterday I would. I'm on a mandate right now talking to CEOs and presidents of mines gold mines, copper mines and I felt right, I called them up, I got on the phone right away. We started talking about the weather.

Speaker 2:

Executives don't are not particularly enamored by having people call and pitch right away or get into the heart of the subject right away. They want to know and they're actually listening with their ears, sensitively to say can I trust this person? Is this person of integrity? Is he or she calm and poised and mature and confident? And I sense that that person is curious and wants to engage in a human-to-human, an H2H conversation. From that vantage point you can get into the subject conversation. From that vantage point you can get into the subject when the fluff and the chit, chat and the the first glass of wine, toast and everything has been kind of established to let them know hey, you're not just calling to sell, you're there to understand, connect, engage with calmness and maturity. It takes. It takes practice, any other skill, but you can right away Other cases you may not be able to reach them right.

Speaker 2:

So you leave a message, but you keep the message simple. You try not to sell anything. You try just to say good afternoon, mrs Caroline Belinska. It's Denis from such and such a company. Kindly get back to me at this number. Thank you very much. That's it. Keep it simple. Keep the curiosity approach so he or she will call you back, say, oh, thank you very much for calling me back.

Speaker 2:

And then you get into. You know whatever you want to talk about, with some wisdom, some calmness. You can't not sense that sending off vibes, that you're there to make a sale. It's all about understanding, establishing a relationship, and people are not stupid. They can pick up on your voice. They can pick up on your voice, they can pick up on your words, they can pick up on your energy and they will, or will not, acquiesce, acknowledge, feel right with you, and so make them feel right from the very start. As a matter of fact, the first 10 seconds is crucial and I've developed a method to help people really break down the tension in the first 10 seconds. But we have to practice. So I coach them in role play. The more you role play, the better. So the voice yeah, call them up right away. It's very powerful.

Speaker 2:

And if you can't leave a message, go to LinkedIn. Try to connect with them by saying please kindly connect. That's it. Don't say much more. Let them come to your LinkedIn profile. Let them find out about you, because they will, and then write an email that says kindly get back to me. I tried to leave you a message to no avail. Kindly get back to me when you have a quick moment. Let them find out about you. Let them go and check you out If you've done your job right with your LinkedIn profile. If that's the case, you should have a robust platform right. You and I know someone who does those audits for LinkedIn profiles.

Speaker 1:

Well, he's on this challenge as well, so he'll be talking about LinkedIn.

Speaker 2:

Everyone needs to take notice of that episode as well.

Speaker 1:

So you're right.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely 75% of the time, people will come and check you out to know if you're credible. If you have the right connections, you may have mutual connections. Know your past, know your personality, your personal goals, the kind of person you are. Let them check you out. That's why you have a robust, well-established so. It's a combination. It's not just a call, it's the call, it's the email, it's the SMS. Use two or three of those to do what we call pattern interrupt, to engage, to show them that you're willing, you want to talk to them and don't worry about them thinking you were hounding them. You're not hounding them. That's in your head, that's your own hang-ups.

Speaker 2:

If you have this sincere desire to serve, you have a wonderful solution and you think the person you're reaching or the company you're reaching is really in need of this. You've done your research. You found out oh, this is most likely the kind of situation where they could benefit from what I offer. Be bold, be happy, be spontaneous and call them up and have a chat, and with the knowledge that you're not going to sell right away, they need to. Just like you will not buy right away from anyone, why would you expect them to buy from you? Right, the same way right. So it's relationship, it's confidence, it's maturity, is social grace, that's how you, that's how you really sell well and establish long-term successful clients.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I wrote down a couple of things, so I love the fact that you constantly said the word kindly. I think that says a lot about your character as well, and it says a lot about my character, because I don't ever write that. I'm very much straight to the point. But I actually wrote that down because it made me think I'm going to start using that. Just even the way you said it, it just sounds really nice. Kindly get back to me. I think that that's just a really nice, because I think sometimes I read people's messages that they send me and I think, oh, that sounds so like you're just trying too hard. I don't like people that try too hard, but you saying that, I think that just sounds really nice and pleasant, and so I wrote that down. That's a really good note to self. So I've been learning a lot from this challenge as well, so I'm happy.

Speaker 1:

You also said about trust is so important. You also said about pattern interrupt is so important and that the first 10 seconds are so important. So there was so much in there, and then LinkedIn profile being so important. So I love that there were so many great little bits of advice there. That was fantastic. We all talk about discovery calls, do a discovery calls, the importance of them. So can you just sort of break that down a little bit, and is there a better way than discovery calls that you found, or do you think discovery calls would be the best solution?

Speaker 2:

Well, let's look at what are you involved in. If you are offering a SaaS product, right, discovery is probably going to be short, and what is a discovery is to discover, so it's to remove the cover and see what's under the cover right of what is the issue, or are the issues, why are they having this problem, et cetera, and that is probably a transactional kind of call and discovery. It's been a short one. You need to ask yourself what are the good questions I need to be asking to really understand deeply their issues. If it's a longer term solution where you're probably offering a technology product, or a technology solution or a process or even coaching.

Speaker 2:

When I talk with people about coaching them, I want to know them, what motivates them. Are they coachable, as we talked about Super important. So I go through my assessment or, and I also will say to myself, can I do? I want to coach these people like, do I want? Because I won't give my best if I I'm doing it just to earn a dollar. That's not the motivation is, can I really make an impact? So we have to assess.

Speaker 2:

So discovery is not only them assess, you assessing them, them assessing you as well, and see if there's a fit You've got to have that what we call cultural and otherwise kind of fit. That really is a match made in heaven for a good, successful transaction and relationship. And you providing what you set out to deliver right and deliver on or exceed with that which you purport to deliver right. So it's on a by kind of assessment, so a discovery. It's good to have a set of questions. One of the things that I found very successful with some of the clients or people that have taught me is if you're in a, let's say, in a mid-size company, not a super small one-man show or five-man show or five-person show or not a $500 million company, but some in mid-range, and you have to go through a process.

Speaker 2:

What I like to ask or suggest to my clients that are being coached with me is, upon doing your discovery, write down the questions and then type them, or write them as he or she is answering vocally. Then you say then you have all of their answers that they answered. Then you type it up and you send them back to them and you say please confirm and validate that I understood really what your issues are and what your desire is. What are you doing right now? You're actually helping them to close themselves on the sale, because then they will read this and say I approve. You're actually helping them to close themselves on the sale Because then they will read this and say I approve. Then I put that in the proposal. So they will have read the thing twice, three times. Yeah, that makes sense. So it's kind of easy for them to buy because they bought as opposed to be sold, because it came from their own mouth.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that if people, if people hear something, they may question it, but if they say it from their own mouth, they don't question it yeah, I love that, I really love that.

Speaker 1:

so send the discovery calls back the the answers. Send them back to them in a document and ask them to validate.

Speaker 2:

Validate your answer, so they check it off, then you put it into the proposal. You may even want to, you know, in your own way, in your own kind of little fun, slightly sly way. Just change the wording, but then the same concept, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that. So we're less than 20 minutes in and I've already learned so many things from you that I love this call so much. This has been fantastic. So a question that I need to ask you because I think I know the answer to it, but I hear it constantly is getting other people to do your sales calls. Should other people be doing these discovery calls for a small sort of a business coach, a fitness coach, or should they be doing their own calls?

Speaker 2:

if they have a coaching business, you say. You're saying coaching business.

Speaker 1:

maybe they're a service based business. Maybe they're a fitness coach yeah, something like that.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, that's for me, that's a no brainer. It's got to be you. You've got to take charge of your business. Unless you have all of this disposable resource of financial cash that you can pay someone, you have to make sure that the person can reflect, can speak on your behalf and be a really integral reflection of who you really are. Um, and that's a very hard place to find yourself in, to find someone that can really represent you with the integrity of who you are made of.

Speaker 2:

Maybe once you have owned on those skills you have clarified.

Speaker 2:

Or, as one colleague of mine, an Australian colleague of mine says, nail the narrative and you have the narrative really down pat, then you can teach it to someone else. But at the beginning I think it's important that you develop all of the qualities, because how will you be able to assess the ability of someone else to do the job if you haven't become good at doing it yourself? Now, if you have a big budget, you have a million dollars and you have all, that's another story, but we're not talking about that kind of profile right now, are we? We are talking about companies or people that have their own small business. They need to become good at it. They are the knowledge power. Why would they, how could they relegate that to someone else and expect them to deliver a compelling message of what they're offering? You have to, you got to take it on. You've got to, you know, roll your sleeves and beat the fear and find the right coach that cares, a caring coach, and then get the jig with it, as they say right.

Speaker 1:

And what sort of questions should we be asking on those discovery calls?

Speaker 2:

Well, it depends on the service of the solution. I mean, if we talk about your business, I'm sure you know like a very simple one is what prompted you to get into a call with me today. Why are we talking like basically, but again warming up the person having a chat? So, listen, thank you for the time that we have together. I know I'll try to be as brief as possible. I respect your time and I respect my own. Tell me a little bit about why are we talking today, what prompted you to accept my call, and let them talk. Let them tell you.

Speaker 2:

I'm coaching someone else who's the owner of a mining industry business and he was interrupting and I said John, I said, shut up, he will tell you everything you need to know. Just let him talk. He wants to talk, he wants to share with you. People love to share about them. Let them talk about themselves. They'll talk forever. So enjoy it.

Speaker 2:

Take notes, you know, and get curious, caringly. Curious about them. Right, kindly caringly. You see all these words. So it's synonymous with really wanting to serve the other person, to listen to them, ask them some questions. Then, as they, you know, share with you. I know, if you know your stuff. You're a subject matter expert or knowledgeable, good questions will come up. So maybe practice before, establish kind of a structure of a number of questions, but other things will move and flow and right, maybe create a questionnaire. I have a questionnaire from some of my clients, a scoping questionnaire, which I send, which allows them to respond. Often they're I haven't gotten around to it and I say, well, let's have a call and I'll answer it with you. I'll take the 30 minutes and let's just and I'll type and I'll answer it with you. I'll take the 30 minutes and let's just and I'll type and I'll answer for you. Sometimes I'll do that, sometimes I won't. So you got to be patient with some clients. But in your discovery call, let them talk.

Speaker 1:

Denny, that was fantastic. So my last question to you today is we're on the 14 day challenge. What is a couple of tips, one to three tips you would recommend that people could take action on straight away to do something around discovery calls, calls in their business to help them get more clients?

Speaker 2:

well, the first thing is do you want to improve and do you want to do it yourself or hire someone else? So that's the first thing and say what do I need to know in order for me to either assess someone, to hire them or learn myself, and then pass it on by doing something for someone else or do it myself? Find a good coach, look around to get a good coach, because the investment in coaching will multiply its effects. Your return on your investment is always if you get one or two clients from having been coached. Usually the fees pay for themselves easily and then you have all those skills to sustainably. And thirdly is do you want to be coached? Do you really want to improve that part of your business or just simply relegate, which usually ends up in disaster because you haven't learned enough yourself? So those are the kind of three fundamental philosophical questions I would always ask.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. So do you have sort of let's say, for instance, let's use me as an example I've got my business, I do some coaching, business coaching, I do some. I've got my SaaS product, I have some other. I've got a group coaching program and I have an individual program and I do do my own calls and I've been doing this for many, many years. But what would you say for me, by getting on the calls, what can I sort of see as an improvement? Would you say that I could expect if I was? You know, of course I have to practice, of course I have to get into it and, you know, make sure that I'm doing it.

Speaker 1:

But if I was a sort of business that was bringing in one or two clients a month normally, or even none so there's a lot of people out there that are not even getting a client every single month, they might be getting one every two months. Let's say, they're bringing in one or two people per month. Could you expect from getting a coach to help you do it? Could you turn that? And of course you've got to have your leads coming in, but could you turn that into? Rather than getting one or two coaching clients a month, could you turn that into five to 10 coaching clients a month, if you are actually dedicated to making a change?

Speaker 2:

If you are dedicated to making a change. I'll answer that with that question in the last sentence, because that is the question. That's a fundamental point. If you are dedicated to change, then your mindset changes the minute a person makes that decision, because what's difficult for people is to make decisions. That's always the difficult part of human beings. We are always weak when it comes to making decisions. We have to stick to that decision after right.

Speaker 2:

So to increase, you have to accept that there will be some more disciplined execution. A lot of times, because of the fear, because of not knowing well how to do things, you're less likely to hit the tennis ball if you don't know how to hit it. Likewise, if you don't feel competent when you lift up the phone, you don't, you're bumbling, you're a little bit afraid. All that stuff. People can pick up on that. So it's disciplined execution. Action overcomes everything. So just do more of it. Learn through action, learn through initiative, be slightly bold and be, you know, swift and and execute, and then maybe hire a coach. I've done this, I've done this, oh okay, so you're doing something, but I cannot correct, or someone as a coach cannot correct you if you're doing nothing. I know it's simplistic in essence, but it's fundamental. You just get out there, go network, go to an event. Go to an event and learn to practice what you say that you do for them, not what you do what you do for them. Get their business cards the next day, write an email, say thank you so much. I really enjoyed getting to know you.

Speaker 2:

I hope that we can have another call. Are you open to that? Or is it better to talk in a few months or ask them the questions that bear a start of a relationship and then put it into your system of record, which often people don't have? Is CRM, a Customer Relations relationship management tool? So it's part of the whole. Best practices Know your targets, execute and then account for administration or account for activity in your system of record. That's part of my model. I have a framework called TEAMS, t-e-a-m-m-s. Target, execute, account for activity is the first three parts. Is the 30%, 50% part of all of it. So yeah, I don't know if I answered the question well or maybe too much, but that's my answers.

Speaker 1:

Never too much, and I guess the one thing that I hear from and that's why I wanted to have you on today what I hear from a lot of people is that they don't get new clients, and then their biggest problem is that they say that their calls never get them anywhere. And then I find out they don't even have a list of questions to begin with and I'm like so what are you going on the call for? Oh, I'm just calling them. And so I always find that interesting that if you don't have that base of knowing what you're doing, then it makes it really difficult.

Speaker 2:

Sure, sure. Be clear, be prepared. Fundamentals it's your business, you know denny, you've been wonderful.

Speaker 1:

How can people get in touch with you if they would like to work with you to find out more about what you do? So?

Speaker 2:

on linkedin, you know I have. I think that I've provided you with the link to my personal profile. That's probably the absolute best place. I'm always open to having a conversation. I even offer a little 30-minute assessment to get to know a person, to get to see if we click, if we jive, if we connect pardon the terms and on LinkedIn. And my company has a website called Lotus Communications, so it's L-O-T-U-S-C-O-M as in mother, m, mother twice dot com, lotuscomcom, and they can reach me there, write an email, have a conversation. But LinkedIn is really the prime platform where I communicate with people. I have it on my phone. I'm always in communication with clients and colleagues all the time and let's have a conversation.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. So everyone's had it here. Get on discovery calls. If you run some sort of coaching business, if you have some sort of coaching business, if you have some sort of service business where you can reach out to people, do a discovery call, do a call with people, because it really does make a difference yes, indeed, absolutely fantastic so thank you everyone for joining us for the 14 day challenge.

Speaker 1:

There's lots more episodes to watch. If you have not watched all the other ones, please go back and watch them, because every single episode we've got really great guests that are going to be helping you grow your business. So thank you for joining us here today and, denise, thank you again for joining us. Thank you everyone and bye for now. Thank you for joining me on this episode. For more tips and resources, visit moreclientslesshustlecom and leave a review or comment so I can continue to help you on your journey to more clients with less hustle. Till next time.

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Caroline Balinska

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