5. The Daily Struggle - Connection Before Correction

Every parent knows that moment—standing at your teenager's bedroom door, desperately trying to get them moving while being met with pure teenage disdain. What seems like a simple morning routine quickly reveals the complex emotional landscape we navigate as parents.

In this deeply relatable episode, Teri opens up about a recent morning struggle with her 16-year-old that triggered familiar questions: Am I doing too much? Too little? Am I enabling poor behavior or showing my child they have worth? These aren't just questions for mundane moments—they're the same ones we face during more serious situations, just without the raw urgency of crisis.

The conscious pause emerges as a powerful tool in these triggering moments. That brief space between stimulus and response creates room for choice rather than reaction. While a part of us may feel extreme anxiety, we are not that anxiety. This distinction allows our wiser self to emerge and guide our actions from connection rather than reactivity.

Catherine and Teri explore how "connection before correction" transforms these daily struggles, and why acknowledging that our children's journeys needn't follow the "myth of normal" frees both parent and child. Through self-awareness, witnessing our emotions without becoming them, and staying present with difficult feelings rather than rushing past them, we transform everyday parenting challenges into opportunities for growth.

Rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts, and join us next week as we continue navigating the beautiful mess of conscious parenting together.

TERI
Website: https://teripotter.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teripotterpathways/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teripotterpathways

teri@teripotter.com

CATHERINE
Website: https://www.collaborative-insights.com/conscious-coaching
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/collaborative_insights_coach/

catherine@collaborative-insights.com

Resources:

- Conscious Parenting (Dr. Shefali Tsabary)
- Compassionate Inquiry (Dr. Gabor Maté, Sat Dharam Kaur)

Here are a few international resources:

• United States: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (1-800-273-8255) or text HOME to 741741
• United Kingdom: Samaritans: 116 123
• Canada: Crisis Services Canada: 1-833-456-4566 or text 45645
• Australia: Lifeline Australia: 13 11 14
• International Helplines: Please visit www.suicide.org/international-suicide-hotlines.html for a full list of helplines worldwide.
• https://www.helpguide.org/find-help

Please remember, there is always support available, and reaching out can be the first step in finding help. You are not alone, and support is there for you and your family.

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Transcript

Today's Topic: Managing Parental Triggers

Speaker 1 0:04

Welcome to Navigating the Abyss. We are Terry and Katherine, two necessarily trauma-informed moms who, through our own journeys, were inspired to become conscious parenting coaches. We are here to share our ongoing learning and insights in the hope of bringing some new perspectives and clarity for parents who might be on similar paths. We hope you'll join us. Welcome everybody. So in this episode, terri's sharing with us a very concrete example of being triggered by her daughter's behavior, then a bit about her observations of what goes on inside herself as a mother, and then we talk about the decision we make to show up differently for our kids, to really manage and process our emotions in order to rise up, maintain the connection with them and then guide them from love and wisdom and not fear. We hope you'll take what you need from this episode. Hi, terry, it's great to reconnect again. Good to see you.

Speaker 2 1:00

Great to see you too. Here we go. Yeah, we've got some things to talk about today, huh.

Speaker 1 1:06

Always do so, yeah, so tell me a little bit what's present for you, what's going on?

Speaker 2 1:10

Well, you want to know what's happened to me today. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't sound so huge, I suppose, but in the context of what we've been through as a family, you know it brings up an awful lot. So I'll give you a bit of a heads up. So, uh, tomorrow would be my young person's first day back at college after a bit of a break we call it a midterm break over here in England and they've had a great chill out week or so. Um, thoroughly enjoyed, you know, just not having to be anywhere in particular, and, you know, actually started engaging in a few projects towards the end of the week. Well, today, though, being Monday, and being that they have to show up for college on Tuesday, this morning was a bit of I'm just going to say a bit of a shit show. So they didn't need to be up early, they did need to be up. They had an appointment with a chiropractor.

Speaker 2 2:08

So, upon entering the bedroom, um, of the teenager, uh, you know, at the pre-agreed time, when they were supposed to already be up and showered, um, you know, I get met with the expected kind of teen what can we call it? Just that teen mode of you know. What the hell do you want? Why are you here? Leave me alone. I mean, that's being polite, right? Not too many words came out of her mouth, but there was an absolute disdain and an absolute kind of whole tone. For you know what the fuck are you doing in my bedroom? Um, anyhow, so you know, trying to just get them to prop themselves up in time to just get in the shower. And you know, do all the things. The voices in my head are really loud, like you should not be doing this for your 16 year old. You should not be facilitating. You should not be the one that your 16 year old. You should not be facilitating. You should not be the one that's getting their clothes ready, getting them up at this time of day when they should have been up, should have been up hours earlier. You know all of these voices I can challenge. However, they're very present in that moment.

Speaker 2 3:18

So, anyway, I go back to work. I had work to do. I had to go down to my studio, get on with some stuff, so I left them with that. Like you really need to be up in the next half an hour and showered us. We're going to be late for this appointment thing, sure enough, half an hour went by and I already knew this was already mapped out, because this is an everyday occurrence, this is the daily struggle. I knew that they would have put their head back on the pillow and gone back to sleep. So I come back out of my work situation and, sure enough, still not in the shower, so I won't make a long story even longer.

Speaker 2 3:51

Eventually they got in the shower and then it was like mom, can you help me do my hair before I go to the thing? And you don't really have enough time. But there I am sort of lurking, hanging around because it's a moment of connection, a possibility for me to be able to help my daughter do her hair while she does her makeup. And you know, it's a. It's like a scene out of mama Mia in my head. It's like can I sit there and do?

The Morning Struggle with a Teen

Speaker 2 4:15

all the things as if she's going to get married or something, and we've got to treasure these moments. But I'm hanging around and hanging around and hanging around and I knew she's getting later and later. So I call the guy who she's got an appointment with and he says it's okay, terry, because he understands the struggle and he's, he's, I'll give you, you know, you've got another 15 minutes, it's okay. So we've got another 15 minutes. Are they ready? No, how long do I have to do their hair? Two minutes.

Speaker 2 4:40

And then I have a dilemma. Do I help, help them do their hair? I just go, hey, no natural consequences, I'm sorry you go. With wet hair, it sucks. You know what can I do? So anyway, I do their hair.

Speaker 2 4:51

So all of this, all the time anxiety is growing and growing inside of me and all the time there's not an ounce of gratitude or thank you, mom, or it's just this kind of fury that's internal in her and she's just really angry to even be in this space where she has to be doing anything. And everything that I'm going through is just an aside, right, it's non-existent, except it is existent because I'm also aware that she's got this struggle in her which which is going now I'm upsetting my mom too. So we do the hair, we do the things. She's running late and then, you know, as she's about to go down the stairs, there's dad at the bottom of the stairs. He's driving her to said appointment and, you know, some words came out of his mouth which were very unhelpful, you know, kind of like for real. Uh, and I'm like I just said that's not helping.

Speaker 2 5:47

So, anyway, this is the daily struggle and out they go and this happens and then they come back in a way better mood and it's all you know, it's all hair and makeup lovely, and then off they go into town to go get a coffee and it's.

Speaker 1 6:00

It sounds so minimal with the headline, but it's the daily struggle that I'm feeling yeah, and I think you highlighted so many of these key issues that you know that you, that we face with them, because one is the, this kind of dance of wanting to be supportive but then not wanting to disempower, right, and wanting them to take agency in their life. Two is the need and understanding of the need, connection before everything, right. And so three is the real world. The real world you have an appointment, and and and clocks exist, and, and there are natural consequences, but then there's a cost that everyone's a pain, when appointments are missed or when you know they miss a certain amount of school and then they can't continue going or whatever.

Speaker 1 6:59

So there's there's there's a. You know when do you draw the line there? So there's a lot. I mean, this is not like a. When you brought it up first it was like, oh, it's like just getting them ready for out the door, but it actually brings up a lot of the issues that we face, right, and I think that one around how much to do. It's so hard, right, because we really want to go in and we've seen so many, you know them being in such dark places. So you know, our deepest instinct is like, just kind of, what bumps can we smooth over for them?

Speaker 2 7:37

Absolutely. And then, yeah, when you come at when, what you mentioned just then was, you know, yeah, as I say the header for this, you know, if we were to write what's the topic I'm talking about today, it's. It does seem minimal, and yet this transposes on to most days of the week, I'll be honest, most days of the certainly college days. But, more importantly, it's the same set of emotions, almost the set of conversations, as when we were in a crisis situation, and I'm feeling and sensing, into all of those parts that come to the fore, which is am I doing too much, Am I doing too little?

Speaker 2 8:20

Am I connecting first? Is am I doing too much? Am I doing too little? Am I connecting first? Am I connecting too much? Am I helicoptering? You know how much of this is me disempowering my young person, how much of this is me showing them that they have worth and value? That's the question. And I think exactly the same when we were in a situation where she was reaching for the blade, exactly the same when we were in a situation where she was reaching for the blade. I don't think it changes all that much, you know, but it just has this sense of raw urgency.

The Dance of Support vs. Empowerment

Speaker 1 8:47

Of course, at the time, yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting too, how and I think that what you've developed is this ability, though, to see this happening. You can see, you know, in the, in the moment. You can see, okay, I want to connect, but I want to also give her space. I want her also to take responsibility.

Speaker 1 9:13

You're seeing this as it's happening right, yeah, yeah and I'm wondering you know what are you, what are the emotions you're feeling while this is going on, and how do you work through them so you don't end up screaming?

Speaker 2 9:30

Oh, it's so close. You know what? Sometimes it's just beneath the surface and I think that just the teachings. I'm really, really happy that you shone a light on the fact that it's all been about. You know, what was going on there was I was in a dialogue with myself. It was absolutely true.

Speaker 2 9:46

When I say a dialogue, because I think there's so many parts in all of us that you know are coming up at the same time and it's important, it's been important for me to acknowledge that it's anxiety, often extreme anxiety, but I am not extreme anxiety. A part of me is extremely anxious and so that's been able, that's been afforded me the opportunity to to witness myself and actually, in those situations, notice how anxious a part of me is and also notice these other voices. Am I too much? Am I not enough? All the things I just said, um, so that's the first thing, um, I would say has been really helpful has been the ability to witness myself in those moments. Now, first and foremost, is the conscious pause, yeah, yeah. So bringing that in, having a little bit of room to breathe and notice exactly where I'm at, because that gut reaction of just like, oh, are you kidding me? You know, that's right there, doesn't leave, but it's catching that moment.

Speaker 1 10:54

Yeah, no, I love that. I think that the pause and then reflecting on what is actually going on and I think what you said is so important and this is we don't hear it. I mean, you hear it sometimes, but I think not enough. Is that that anxiety, that you are not that anxiety? Because I think sometimes we feel like when we're anxious it's like it's that's who I am, it's consuming me, right, right, and you're not able to tap into the other, know the wiser, calmer self that can see, that can step back and see the bigger picture. So I think just acknowledging that's that's a part of me that's anxious. But I am not that anxiety and I am actually have this wiser, um kind of more visionary, um, forward thinking, expansive part of me that can, I can tap into yeah, and I think in those moments which you are what you do, right, but it's very hard to reach those wiser parts when you're in that mode of like.

Speaker 2 11:54

I mean just keeping, keeping it real. It's kind of like you know. I mean I was my husband at the bottom of the stairs going are you kidding me? Like with his hands literally waving in the air, and I'm like that's everything I'm feeling inside. But so and so much more I've got inside me, but I am not expressing it, so I'm like that's not helpful. So, coming back to myself, all I knew was that pause, because until I've paused and until I've been able to really notice this reactivity in me, then I, I can't access anything else. You know, there really has to be a few moments to breathe. So that's been the most helpful thing.

Speaker 2 12:33

That, uh, the awareness of it all, the, the voices in my head. I still reckon. I still reckon with those. I do honestly, kevin, because sometimes am I too much, am I too little?

Speaker 2 12:42

But one thing I do know for sure 100, which I don't doubt, I don't question is shefali's teaching of connect before you correct, um, you know, finding a way through making that, making those opportunities, also making a point I didn't just take it all, I didn't just let it go. I was able to say, okay, let me just tell you what's going on for me right now. You know, right now dad's late for work, I'm late for work, you've got your um appointment and you're making him late and there's a lot that's going on in this moment. Right now, um, and I can see that you're really stressed out and here I am doing your hair, just kind of narrating almost what's happening without a portioning blame. Stating facts as it was was kind of helpful, um, but always afterwards I still go into this questioning thing.

The Conscious Pause and Self-Awareness

Speaker 2 13:35

You know how much of me was shaming, because that's my natural, instinctive conditioning. You know which is, you know to blame. You know what the hell do you think you're doing? You know what you know. Do you realize how much you're upsetting everybody else? You know all of the things that I grew up with that you know for my own parents that that's something I that would landed for me all the time, which?

Speaker 2 13:58

so you know I have to also go back with hindsight and just check in with myself how much of that was shaming and how much of it was just factual and explaining how. I feel in those moments.

Speaker 1 14:09

Yeah, yeah, that's right, and I think in those moments and I think that's what works for me is just remembering when I'm feeling like the need to react, what can I do, how can I shift this, what can I do differently?

Speaker 2 14:21

And just this knowledge, and not continue down this path and just remind myself that I can't pivot, yeah, and it's hard sometimes you know, I remember those early teachings and we've talked about this in a different episode about walking around the house with my finger on my lips. Just zip it, zip it. It's not time to talk, hold on put it on a shelf?

Speaker 1 14:47

Yeah, but it does, it does, but those are. They seem like such small things.

Speaker 2 14:53

They're not, are they?

Speaker 1 14:54

But they aren't. The more you practice them, they make some pretty monumental changes. And I think the one thing too and I've noticed that we both you know, just from working with people and our clients and is that it's just developing that self-awarenessness, developed the ability to kind of step back and see what's happening, because you need that is the first step absolutely and acknowledging our common humanity in all of this, I think, is really important.

Speaker 2 15:25

You know we can do all of the work and it doesn't mean that we're not going to get that word triggered. You know, um, it's going to happen there. You know victor franco talks about the, the moment between stimulus and response. You know you can react or you can respond. You have the opportunity, and that's what the conscious pause is about getting into that zone where you've got an opportunity to just notice and and make a choice, rather than just, you know, vomit out whatever is coming up for you in those moments, but it does.

Speaker 2 15:55

It takes a lot of biting your lip, biting your tongue and, um, there's a ton of stuff that you know you might even be 100 correct about that. You want to just shout.

Speaker 1 16:07

It's just holding back a little bit yeah, and another thing I think your story reminds me of is that how different each kid is and how diverse their needs are, right. So when I hear you're talking, I think for my, at this point I'm in a place where I'd I'd like her to take as much responsibility for her life as she can, because she's almost 18. And so I don't get in the shower, get ready. I mean, we're not that place right now. It's more like hands off as much as possible, and then, when things kind of go south, just trying to bring curiosity oh I wonder what happened. Well, I wonder what you can do to avoid that, so you don't feel crappy about missing school or whatever tomorrow, or just kind of bringing up those questions. Yeah, because there's nothing I can say. I mean, those are. I know her, so I know she already feels bad if she misses school. I know there's not as bad as maybe I'd like her to feel, but there's still there's something going on. You know there's a process going on there.

Speaker 2 17:21

She has her own values around it all.

Speaker 1 17:23

Yeah, but it's hard to not. It's hard to step back and I think even in your case you know, I think you probably would agree it would be much better for her to have missed the chiropractor appointment than to explode it into something where you were angry and yelling or whatever that you broke the connection and she was feeling really bad about herself and bad about having, you know, caused problems with your schedule and her dad's work obligations. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 17:55

Um, you know, when I saw her dad at the bottom of the stairs, um sort of echoing and he knew, he knew not to say it very loudly, because he's always he's been, you know, he's done a lot of this work too.

Speaker 2 18:05

Um, and I, you know, I looked at him and I went well, that's where he's at, so I won't be handing over to him right now, so here's where I'm at. Um, and yeah, knowing that, had I allowed it to come through me and out of me without that pause, we would have been in such a messy situation that would have taken way, long to way, much, way longer to clear up than it than the alternative, which was to, you know, just take that time, take a moment, take the pause, just breathe and then just state the facts, um, as and when they were needed, and do the do the things, make the choices, make the decisions. I had these questions is it right or wrong? Let it go, just show up in the way that you need to show up in that moment, and I love what you just pointed to about your daughter as well.

Speaker 2 18:54

Taking those moments is what I heard where you've got opportunities, where things are calmer, where there's a bit more stillness day to day, or there's a bit more humor, light-heartedness, and you can bring in the hey and I did manage to do this later on this morning which was, you know, hey, you know it's kind of tough. You're going to go back to college tomorrow. Right, I bet that you know you're not really looking forward to that. I'm getting a sense, and then the conversation could, could happen and evolve and you know how's it gonna. How's it gonna be tomorrow morning, because that's the big deal, right?

Balancing Connection and Natural Consequences

Speaker 2 19:23

Tomorrow is the day, and this today was just a practice for tomorrow, and once again, we'll be in that daily struggle, only it'll be even more so. So today was a dry run, tomorrow is the full on. Are you actually going to get in the vehicle and go tomorrow to college? So, yeah, taking those moments is another key takeaway, I think, for me, which is it's about checking in and just saying, hey, I noticed, I noticed, you know, things weren't so great this morning. When I woke you up, did it feel like a little bit of a precursor to what tomorrow might bring? Yeah, and then there's there's again some connection and we've all had an opportunity, you know, sometime later it was an hour or so later to calm down.

Speaker 1 20:08

Yeah, and I think you know part of what drives this I mean, at least I know in my case is that I think somehow if I can make these little things happen like if we can, just you can get to this doctor's appointment, or if you can just get to school at this time, or if you can get then the rest of things will fall into place.

Speaker 1 20:29

but that's not the it's not true, it's not the case, it's not true, it's not true. And we, so we put too much importance in these little because really, you know the big picture, you know the child healing or um, it's not about, it's just, it's not, as it's not, a linear process it's not.

Speaker 2 20:49

And the old me I'm hearing the old me contest that the old me would have wanted to say, oh yeah, that's all very well and good if it's a ballet or a tap lesson, um, or even a chiropractor appointment, but if it's education, they need to, they need to go. Every kid has to go, everyone has to show up, they have to go through the system, they have to come out just like all the other kids. You know, that's the old. And now I hear myself. I just said I mean, what matters most is my kid. Okay, are they right? How are they in their own skin? How is their soul? How is their heart?

Speaker 1 21:22

you know, yeah yeah, and I hear you say I mean, I think that's you know what we've. A lot of the work that we do is around false beliefs, right, and the belief that, just as you said, if you know education and if they don't go to school every day and if they don't you know, something terrible will befall them and that you failed miserably as a parent.

Speaker 2 21:43

Yeah, look at all that penis doing so well.

Speaker 1 21:46

Right, but it's all false and you know, we know all that. It's a veneer, right. They can look like they're doing what you know, and then who knows what's really happening. But really what's important is their internal, their integrity, and they're feeling okay about themselves and they're sort of being given the space to find their way, you know, within boundaries. But I think that that, yeah, it doesn't but I think that that yeah, it doesn't have to look like everybody else.

False Beliefs About Education and Success

Speaker 1 22:14

It doesn't have to look like everybody else. And again, I think it's that, as we talked about the beginning, it's that balance between, yes, giving them the space to explore and define and kind of co-create their life and, at the same time, you know, having certain expectations, because life has those expectations and there are. You know, there are um, uh, effects and there are. What is what we're looking for? Um, cause and effect exists, yeah, and they're part of that.

Speaker 2 22:50

So you know that balance is critical and they have their own values and they have their own priorities and, although they don't necessarily know which path their life's going to take, or, in, in many ways, they don't know which way they're going to travel, whether it's career-wise, whether you know just anything in terms of how they want to show up, um, I think what matters is it is theirs. They want to show up, um, I think what matters is it is theirs and they will figure it out. And there is no time limit and you know, it's the challenge, but we chose to have them, we chose to bring them. Lord knows, we didn't know what we were in for, because nobody tells you, um, but you know that.

Speaker 2 23:31

That said, um, I've learned, and I continue to learn, so much that I'll always be grateful for this ride, because it is a ride, it's a ride of human experience that I'm grateful for. But, boy, yeah, highs and lows, ups and downs, it certainly takes its toll and our systems get pulled all over the place and that, and that is the human experience. And making those emotions all equal, you know, up down, high, low, sadness, happiness, anger, you know, um, all of the all of the things are valid and necessary for us to experience, but it is. There's something comforting about just understanding that too, that the ride is, the ride is the ride is not all about trying to make it beautiful just accepting, just just surrendering to that exactly reality, right?

Speaker 1 24:30

yeah, 100, yeah, and I think so much of our struggles is around trying to is not because we haven't accepted. Yeah, 100%, and we think that if we, that we would be happy or we'd be better off if somehow we'd been able to orchestrate some different outcome. But that's not the case. This is it at all. It's not the case.

Key Takeaways for Parents

Speaker 2 24:51

So I wonder if we can sum up any takeaways from our conversation today for you, me both and anyone that's listening. So I'm thinking like, yeah, I started this conversation to talk about my struggle this morning and then that quickly became, oh yeah, it's a daily struggle, and then it's like that struggle transposes onto a number of different situations. But yeah, I mean, we've talked about the conscious pause, you know taking time. We've talked about witnessing ourselves witnessing ourselves absolutely.

Speaker 1 25:23

Um, we talked about recognizing that you're not. You can, you don't have to identify with those emotions. Like you don't, you are not that anxious person. There's another part of you which I think is really important yeah, um, seeing that their needs are different, like every kid's needs are different, and like in being attuned to what those needs are, despite what you're being told or what you've been conditioned to believe yeah, as gabon marty says, the myth of normal.

Speaker 2 25:57

That's his book everybody should read that, totally true. Yeah, the myth of normal, not such a.

Speaker 2 26:02

Thing and being kind to ourselves acknowledging the common humanity of it all, how we're all in this together. Everyone's in in the struggle because it is the daily struggle, right? Everybody's got a version of the daily struggle, even if it's not daily. Everyone's got a version of what's familiar, um, and acknowledging that it's in all of us, with our young people. All of us are having a version of it. And, yeah, and appreciating that, just because everybody's not happy doesn't make it okay, doesn't make it not okay, it's okay not to be okay and to have the full human experience of all the different emotions.

Speaker 1 26:46

Yeah, I think that's yeah and I think, yeah, well, I think an important component of that is that you know, often, when we're not okay, or our kids, especially if our kids aren't okay and if they've struggled, we try and we did try like instinctually and we've talked about this before is to try and get them past those emotions.

Speaker 1 27:07

But you'll be fine, oh, it's not as bad as you think, oh it's. Oh, it's right. A lot of that and I, and I think what we're learning, which is critical, um, and I actually have a story about this I can share, maybe for another episode but is that is, you know, like my daughter the other day, she said she's struggling with some boy issues, whatever, and she's like, oh, it doesn't matter. You know, um, if he breaks up with me and I'll find it doesn't matter, I can find someone else. And I, you know, I said, wait, slow down, it actually will matter. And you actually will feel like crap, probably likely, and that's okay. It's okay to just feel like crap, but also know you'll make it through, but you may feel like crap for a couple of days.

Speaker 1 27:55

I love that and that's the message, and not trying to reason yourself out of it, like not trying to reason them out of it, or use you know? No, actually you won't, and you're much.

Speaker 2 28:03

you know, you've got there's, you know time in your life and you've got mine and I just said you know, I know that you know it kind of sucks right now that you're at college and you're not making friends. I appreciate that that really sucks and I can also see a version of you where that is going to be different. But yeah, how are you feeling right now? And she's like not great. I'm like okay, yeah, let's just stay with that for a minute.

Speaker 1 28:36

It is what it is, and I can see a time when things could give her.

Speaker 2 28:38

So yeah, not not, yeah, sweeping through, but staying with. And and I was as I was hearing you say for them and for us.

Speaker 1 28:43

Right for them and for us, yeah 100.

Speaker 2 28:47

Well, this has been a great opportunity for for me to upload and I just want to say I hope it's helped somebody. Um, that's really why I'm doing this, right, but I think so I'm just grateful for the opportunity. If it helps people, then that's awesome. We'll find out when we over time.

Speaker 1 29:04

No, it was great processing with you and great hearing your reflections. It's always so helpful for me too thank you so much okay, signing off for now.

Speaker 2 29:13

We'll be back next week. Bye, okay, here's the legal stuff. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. We are not licensed therapists and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. See you next time.