Be Yourself. Learn to Love You: Boundaries, Confidence & Being Misunderstood – with Sharon Talbot (S1:E3)

In this episode of To All The Girls Out There (S1:E3), I sit down with one of my secondary school teachers, Sharon Talbot, a woman who played a huge role in shaping who I am today. We have an honest, heartfelt conversation about growing up as a girl in a world full of pressure — from school, friendships, and identity, to social media, comparison, and the feeling of always having to be “on.”

We explore how constant phone use, instant gratification, and online culture can disconnect girls from themselves, and how to reclaim a sense of freedom and confidence while staying true to who you are. Sharon shares her wisdom on learning when to speak up, when to let things go, and how not to take on other people’s stress or stories.

Beyond self-worth and boundaries, we talk about community, roots, Black identity, and how understanding where you come from can ground you in a world full of noise.

This episode is especially for the girls who feel misunderstood, overwhelmed, or like they’re constantly being pulled to become someone they’re not. 

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website👩🏽‍💻: toallthegirlsoutthere.com

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Transcript

To All The Girls (00:05)

Hi girls, welcome back to all the girls out there. ⁓ I hope you guys are all doing amazing. Today we have a special guest, someone who's very close to my heart. ⁓ She's played such a big role in my life, probably more than she even knows. This woman, she's someone who...

To me, she knows who she is and she isn't afraid to live from that space. ⁓ She represents what it looks like to move through life with strong values and to figure out life without feeling the need. Without.

needing to have it all together. She's someone who showed me without even thought in it that you can be strong and vulnerable at the same time. And that is Ms Dennis!

Sharon (00:56)

my god ⁓ wow that's quite deep i didn't realise i didn't realise that you kind of had all those feelings about me so thank you so much

To All The Girls (01:01)

Yeah.

No worries, no, of course I have to. Like literally my process is like I have to sit here and think what is it that you've done for me or what is it that I feel like you can bring and I feel like because you've brought that to me then you're able to bring that to the other girls if that makes sense.

Sharon (01:26)

Yeah, yeah.

To All The Girls (01:27)

But yeah, 100 % I just, again, I wanna thank you for that, but I think we're gonna get more into that and what you've done to me like later on. ⁓ But again, I just wanna say thank you, thank you, thank you so much for coming on. ⁓ So for everyone, again, this is another teacher, so I'm calling her Ms. Lee. I asked everyone to just like, just mind your business, but.

Sharon (01:36)

Okay.

Hahaha

To All The Girls (01:53)

It's Sharon right? yeah so for everyone else, Sharon but for me it's Miss. So again, obviously you're a teacher, you're still teaching and you've been working with kids for quite a while now right?

Sharon (01:55)

Yep.

Yep.

been at Little Ilford for 24, almost 25 years.

Yeah, I mean it was first teaching job ⁓ and it's just like... So I started in 2001 ⁓ and it was my very first placement ⁓ and to be honest I've loved it ever since. People have said, why haven't you left? Because normally it's like a seven year itch or a so many year itch and then people leave.

To All The Girls (02:23)

No.

Sharon (02:43)

And it's like, well, I don't need to leave because every day is different and the children are different and every year is different and you just kind of see them from year seven to year 11. So all the changes occur within that space. And I've been fortunate enough to kind of move through different roles within the school. So I've not had to go anywhere and I'm quite glad I haven't. It's been good.

To All The Girls (03:10)

Yeah, 100%. Because I also feel like, even like you said it, moving through roles also, that gives it a different experience. I feel like if maybe you stay in the same thing, it's like, ⁓ maybe I'm getting a bit bored.

the fact that maybe you move through different things and like you said experience different experiencing different kids definitely makes sense because it's so funny earlier on i was literally thinking i was like there's actually quite a lot of teachers that have been in school for a long time and i'm like do people not get bored because i'm i'll i'll be walking for six months and i'm not i'm tired of this place like i need i love new beginnings i'm like

Sharon (03:36)

Mmm.

To All The Girls (03:47)

just that anticipation for something different. So you saying that it kind of makes, it makes sense. gives me an insight into like why you stayed, you know?

Sharon (03:55)

Yeah,

I mean every day, and I say to the students, you know, this is a place of education and as much as I'm a teacher, I am even now still learning because every child is different and they come with their own nuances, they come with their own expectations, they come with their own attitudes and so it's no two individuals, no two students are the same. So being open to that.

To All The Girls (04:06)

Yeah.

Sharon (04:23)

and knowing that every student has a different aspect or a different personality means that my days are going to be different because they will all come at me with different stuff. So why do I move? Why do I go? And I've loved it little bit ever since. And it's not just the students, SNAP as well, even though a lot of them have gone, but some people leave because they want to...

develop and they want to move role and they want to go up rank whereas I had the position the opportunity to shift roles within the school so therefore I had no desire to want to go anywhere else to be in a different role because it all came to me whilst I was there so I was really fortunate in that respect.

To All The Girls (05:14)

So what role did you have initially?

Sharon (05:17)

I came in as what used to be a QTS, now called an ECT PE teacher. And then you go for like a two year period or a period where you're ECT and you've got to just dare I say jump through hoops in order for you to then get your fully qualified status.

and then whilst I was there for a while working under an amazing head of department who later on went on to be assistant head teacher, I was second in charge. So I was deputy head of department for quite a while, which I actually loved. I really don't know why, but I just loved that role. I think it's because I didn't have full responsibility. And what was also nice was at the time,

those days the senior staff and my head of department were always looking for opportunities for me and anybody else really in the department to develop. They always wanted people to improve and move up and move forwards. So then that was, can't even think how many years I did that for, many many years. And then Miss Piper, I don't know if you remember Miss Piper, she was, I was her form tutor for her.

⁓ and she was an amazing, an amazing head of year. And it was her work as head of year that inspired me to think, you know what, I think pastoral is the way to go. I never thought about...

being head teacher or deputy head, I never thought that far ahead. was never really, it wasn't something that I wanted to do. I just kind of went with it. But when I saw how she worked as head of year and the impact that she had at that role, I thought, yeah, because being a teacher for me was about the opportunity to make a difference. And I think pastorally, in my view,

that's where the biggest difference can be made. So I took on the role of Head of Year and stepped away from being Deputy Head of Department. And I think I've had three year groups. I've got, no, two year groups and now this is my third. So that's 10 years as Head of Year.

To All The Girls (07:42)

so when I went... No, because you know what it is, because you're saying free U-groups, yeah? Yeah.

Sharon (07:47)

Yeah, because I've just picked up a year group now, so 2020

was one year.

To All The Girls (07:53)

You had 2020

to 2025 and then there was the one that ended in 2015. Okay, because I came in in 2017 so that year group that you had that was your first year group when I came into school. I didn't know that.

Sharon (07:57)

and then prior to that, yeah, yeah.

yeah probably yeah yeah

so yeah and so this year well I say this year September I started my third year group with 360 interesting year sevens yeah

To All The Girls (08:23)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

How are you finding that?

Sharon (08:36)

It's interesting again because we had well my last, was it my last year group? No my year group before the last one was they called themselves the Covid children because on 23rd, I'll never forget it, 23rd of March

of that year we had to get them all in the dining hall and when we found out in the morning that the government was doing lockdown Miss Hughes and I was running around trying to say my god what we're gonna do we need to do something for the kids we need to get them all together so we were going to shops to get things to dress the tables talking to the dining staff to arrange a special dinner to get them down and then we managed to get them all down slightly early

And we had to announce to them that, you know, guys, this is it. You are, you're leaving government, I said lockdown and you have to kind of go. And it broke a lot of them because they were like, we wanted to do our GCSEs and we wanted to prove what we were worth. And it was hard. And then the following year group, we started in lockdown. So everything was online.

So they never came into school at the start of year seven, everything was online. Then they came in and they were in bubbles and then COVID-2 hit and it was online again and then they kind of came back sort of in year nine and then whole school and then they were like year eight. So these children that we've got were

really quite young in terms of COVID ⁓ and the level of maturity is odd. A lot of the kids that have come in are really quite needy in terms of what they need. The parents are extremely protective, sometimes too overprotective, so we're having to deal with that. And we've got a lot of kids with needs this year, a lot of kids with needs.

But you know, it's a mixed bag. What can I say? Like I said, every year, every year group has been different and this is a brand new phase and a brand new bunch of kids with brand new issues and concerns or not that I'm having to deal with. So I'm learning through these guys a lot more.

To All The Girls (11:14)

That is super exciting. I feel like it can be challenging but like I love that because also it's like...

Times are changing and then so it's like the set of issues you're dealing with now is different from ones you're dealing with before and it's no matter how experienced you feel like you are as a teacher it's always something new because it's like the times like you know you're dealing with different types of technology like AI was nowhere near as big when I was in school and

Sharon (11:25)

Mmm.

100 %

Yep.

To All The Girls (11:49)

Just things like that, that you have to kind of like deal with and navigate. But, yeah. ⁓

Sharon (11:53)

Yeah, I'm still learning. I've

discovered AI. It's now becoming my best friend. I know some people have, they're like AI gurus. And some of the kids know a lot more than I do. But I'm sort of thinking, my God, this is the best thing ever, but you have to use it correctly. And I think some of the kids are starting to understand that because they'll bring in work. And some of the teachers will be saying,

To All The Girls (11:59)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

Sharon (12:21)

This isn't your work in terms of language and how it's written because that's not how they write in their book and all of a sudden they've gone home and googled all this stuff and just thrown it in their book and the teachers are saying things like not what you would write. it's technology like you say is one of the things that has changed but the generation that I kind of have are not fully aware of how to use it to their advantage.

they just use it to get through the process, which is not the best.

To All The Girls (12:57)

Yeah, you have to be very smart with how you use it. Even me, like when I use it, sometimes I'm like, okay, I need to take a break, AI, because I'm scared that I'm gonna start losing like my, what's the word? I don't wanna say brain power, but like my ability to problem solve and do things, because it's like if I'm constantly just making it do stuff for me, I'm gonna be doing it for myself, yeah.

Sharon (13:16)

Yeah, yeah.

for you yeah

To All The Girls (13:24)

That's something that think people should like to go back to teaching. Was it something that you always imagined yourself doing from young? No.

Sharon (13:33)

Nope. Oddly,

nope. I never had any idea what I wanted to do. When I was at school, my parents from the Caribbean, they came over and for them it was about working and working and working, sending money home to build their house, to buy land. So...

So yeah, when I was, I used to go back every summer with my mum because she would go to check on the house and the building and how things were. And when I'd finished school, I had no choice. I was suddenly told, right, we're sending you to Dominique. I was like, okay. That's really good. And then I was like, yeah. I, and at that point, again, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but.

they had made the decision, finished school about three or four weeks after I'd finished, I managed to just get around, meet all my friends and then my ticket was booked and I was gone. And so I lived in the Caribbean for a while with my aunt, which was interesting. And then I went to school there.

And whilst I was there, I managed to meet a lot of people that became friends. In the Caribbean, they do is, well, at those times, what they used to do is if you didn't pass your year, you stayed back.

To All The Girls (14:58)

Yeah.

Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, I never listen. Yeah, I think my mouth is as low.

Sharon (15:01)

Yeah, they

just put me in the final year of school, even though I'd finished my school in the UK. They put me in the final, so I had to redo an entire year whilst I was there. Looking back, was, I'll be honest, it was an amazing experience. But whilst I was there, I just went to come back to the UK because this was where all my people were. And then I came back and worked.

To All The Girls (15:26)

Yeah, I get that.

Sharon (15:31)

I lived with my sister because my sister said to my mum she wants to come home so my mum was like okay take her. So when I came back I lived with my sister and then she supported me in getting my own place when I was 19 and from that point on I kind of lived my life. No thought about what I wanted to do. Being a teacher only came into my head when someone said to me because I started teaching fitness

because it was something that I enjoyed. sports, fitness, I enjoyed it. So I started to be fitness, I was a fitness instructor. And then someone said to me, why don't you become a PE teacher? And I was like, why? Why would I want to teach children that you're mad? And they were like, you were really good at it. And I was like, why would I really want to be teaching other people's children? You must be out of your mind.

And then I kind of sat back and thought, you know what, it might not be a bad shout. And one of the incentives was not just about have been in schools and changing lives because there were teachers in my life that influenced not my decision, but I remember to this day. And then I had my son and I thought, my God, I'm working close to work in accounts. Totally different.

So and I thought I get up and leave the house at ridiculous o'clock. I get home at ridiculous o'clock. I will have no time sort of holidays to spend time with my children. I'll be shoving them in play schemes during the summer holidays unless I take break. And I thought, you know what, let me just do it. So then I did my degree. I had my degree.

And I thought PGCE, do that, become a PT teacher and I'll be honest, as you can see 25 years later I'm still there. So it wasn't a choice from childhood, it was just things that within my life that led me on that path.

Hahaha

To All The Girls (17:38)

Everyone has their own journey into things. Some people know what they want from a younger age and then some people that for example for yourself you got into it. But you know regarding how you grew up in the Caribbean, from what ages was that?

Sharon (17:47)

Hmm.

No, I was born

in Newham. I was born in Newham, went to school in the UK, but went backwards and forwards to Dominica more or less every year and spent most of my summers, well most of my summers were spent when I was in the UK with my aunt in Stevenage.

To All The Girls (18:05)

Okay, okay, so you're going here

Yeah.

Yeah? Okay.

huh.

Sharon (18:24)

But then some of my summers were spent in the Caribbean with my mum and my dad when they went back to sort out the house and sort out the land and all of that stuff. And I lived there for just over a year before I came back. now I got on it, it was great. Looking back, like I said at the time, I couldn't see the benefits, but looking back, I could see the joy.

To All The Girls (18:37)

Okay.

I'm going to say on that movie, yeah, go on.

Mm-hmm.

What would you say are the top lessons or takeaways from being there for that year?

Sharon (19:04)

⁓ To see students who didn't have the advantages that I had coming from a UK school and how they felt that education was a privilege, a way of improving themselves and a way of

getting off the island, which was kind of sad, but it would mean that they would have the ability to leave the island and go and do, because it's a small island and it's not very ⁓ modern. And for lot of the young people then it was a case of they knew that education would take them elsewhere and improve their lives elsewhere.

And so for them, it was a big deal. You know, it was a massive deal. We would go to school in the morning, finish at one o'clock because it was too hot to be in school after one o'clock. So you'd go home, you'd have your lunch, you'd get changed out of your uniform because you couldn't be on the street in your uniform. That was, you just don't do that.

And then we would literally go and find somewhere in the bush, go sit under a tree, do our homework, finish our homework, put our stuff away and then just chill for the rest of the day. So the way of life in that sense was a dream. And like I said at the time, I didn't know how precious it was, but looking back, I can see.

precious it actually was so experiencing it at the time it was good but because most of my life was in the UK and my key friends and my childhood friends were from the UK I just wanted to come home but I did make some phenomenal friends in Dominica who I still am in contact with today and one of my friends is actually assistant

headteacher at the school that we used to go to. Yeah, so it's called the Dominica Grammar School and she's now deputy headteacher at the school.

To All The Girls (21:22)

you

Sharon (21:37)

You

To All The Girls (21:38)

because like your teaching, she is teaching her bifurcative.

Sharon (21:41)

Teaching, yeah, yeah.

But it was good. Like I said, looking back I can appreciate the experience more at the time. When you're young you don't see all the positives that you have. You don't see the moments that are joyous. You enjoy them but you don't realise how important they actually are at the time. Which is why now I can't help but go back. I do.

To All The Girls (22:10)

Yeah, I

think you should though, just like to have that time for a little bit. I think it will be nice. I feel like when you go back, especially to your roots or like your country where parents are from and your origin, you can feel it. I don't know what it is, but when you're there, you can just feel it.

Sharon (22:14)

Hahaha

Yeah

Yeah, I mean, for me, I eventually, I call it my home. People say, where are you from? And I go, Dominica. I don't say Newham, because that's where I believe, both my parents were born there. Even though they gave birth to me here, that's where I believe I'm from.

To All The Girls (22:39)

Yeah.

⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Sharon (22:58)

And like you say, when you're there, one of the biggest things for me is seeing people in roles that are like you. So you see firemen. And when I see the firemen, I just get all excited because it's like, they're all black.

and policemen and judges and people who work in banks and offices and people in response, like Doreen, she's assistant head teacher and you know, it's just, for me it's just like seeing people like me in positions of authority and just generally on the street and feeling no way about it.

Maybe, you know, I don't know how you feel or others feel, but there's always this sense of not that you don't belong, but there's always a little something, a little, some sort of uncertainty or feeling that you don't quite fit 100%. Whereas when I'm there, pff, I'm 100%.

To All The Girls (23:51)

Yeah.

yeah i get what you're saying exactly i don't know if you know like there's this streamer like his name is i show speed and recently he's been doing like an african tour and like he's been showing the world like africa and his experience of going to africa yeah and like i think especially with americans because americans i feel like they're so out of touch with like what goes on in the outer world but

Sharon (24:10)

You

I think I've seen something of him.

⁓ 100%.

To All The Girls (24:36)

They were all like, my gosh, wow. First of all, they didn't know Africa had things like cars and stuff. But anyway, that's a whole nother story within itself. There's a whole nother story within itself. But they were just like...

It was just showing them the community feel that he had because he did the Europe tour and other tours but being able to just walk on the street and seeing everyone that kind of looks like you, everyone's taking you in, it's not like... And the community there, there's so much community. It's like, exactly. Whereas like here, it's not to say that everyone is mean or everyone is standoffishy but it's very much like everyone is for themselves and...

Sharon (25:06)

Yeah

Community, yeah.

Yeah.

To All The Girls (25:21)

if you're going out, if you're going on a vacation or whatever, you're just there by yourself or doing whatever for yourself but he was really showing that like, you know, I'm going back to a place where everyone looks like me and you don't feel a type of way even though he was born in America, you know, he was welcomed there.

Sharon (25:44)

Mm.

Yeah, in the Caribbean it's slightly different. do have a thing about... So when I was younger and I was there, they used to call me the English girl. So they know, once you open your mouth and you don't have the accent, it's like, oh, you're so different from English. Not that it's a problem, but it's like, oh, okay, you're English.

To All The Girls (25:59)

Okay, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon (26:15)

So, and they

kind of make a point of saying that regardless. But then on the flip side, like you say, they don't really care. When you go out, they'll welcome you, they'll help you. You can, and one of the things is, there was a woman who, she travels on her own as a single woman. And she actually said that Dominica was one of, she felt it was one of the safest places to be. She said she could just be in the middle of nowhere and people were just willing to help.

To All The Girls (26:35)

now.

Sharon (26:44)

you whereas you come to the UK and you're in certain places and you don't want to ask nobody for help because you don't know whether you're going to get the help or whether you're going to get something different. So, yeah, so when you talk about what he said, what the person that's sort of done the tour of Africa, I can get it. And I think it's just, I think it's just the culture, our culture, our culture is...

You know what? Live your life and be. There's no stress. We're very kind of horizontal in that respect. Haven't got time to have animosity or stress or any of that stuff. You come, come and have a good time. Just be respectful, be mindful, but enjoy yourself. Whereas here, you kind of always feel that you have to be a little bit weary and a little bit careful and a little bit...

To All The Girls (27:14)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharon (27:39)

you know, on edge and a little bit mindful and there's always a little bit of something.

To All The Girls (27:45)

It's crazy, and it's so funny because I've been talking about it a lot recently, even to people who have been born elsewhere and come here. they will say how here, don't get interested because there's pros and cons to both places and stuff. they would say how when you come from a country like the Caribbean or Africa or whatnot, and then you come here.

Sharon (28:01)

Mmm.

To All The Girls (28:10)

depression is more likely here. Like everyone is like, when I was in Africa, they told me there was no, that didn't even exist. Like everyone is cool. Like you're good, you know, everyone is like doing their thing and then you come here and then you're, it's like you're stressed. Do you know what I mean? Cause like everyone working on hustle and dessert and I'm like, oh my gosh, but.

Sharon (28:27)

Yeah.

To All The Girls (28:32)

I don't know, like I said, there's pros and cons because I'm not going to sit here and say like everything is amazing there and everything is right here. There's both.

Sharon (28:40)

No, but you're

right. when I'm there, it's like when I'm here and now I'm at home, you come in, you close your door and that's it. When I'm in Dominica, I can close my door, go sit on my balcony. Yes, I can go sit in my garden, but it's just not the same thing. It's not the same thing.

To All The Girls (28:52)

Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. ⁓

Sharon (29:05)

And if I decide,

I can go, I'm going to go down to this river and just sit with my feet in the river. know, there are those little things that the island people, I guess, take for granted in a sense because for them it's every day, but they do it. And for us, when we come home, we shut our door and we leave the world outside. Whereas when you're in those places, you have the opportunity to...

be somewhere else, go somewhere else. It's not like you come home, you shut your door. Like I say, you go and sit on your balcony. You can watch the sun set. It's lovely. You can do it here, but the feeling and the vibe is different. You know, you leave your house, you can walk down the road, go find the river, go to the Sulphur Springs. It's just stuff like that. When we used to finish at the weekend, every weekend you go to the beach. ⁓

You you want to go to the beach, you've to drive to Southend and it's cold. And the sea's nasty.

To All The Girls (30:04)

Yeah,

I get exactly what mean. And the community, like I said, like, you know, when you're there, everyone knows, this is this person's child or this is someone's child. It's OK, you know, everyone over here is just a bit like, ⁓ even you might even know someone, there's neighbors that you see on the regular. I'm like, you might not even say anything, you know, it's really kind of sad.

Sharon (30:19)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why I say things like,

when I suppose even now to a sense, you could misbehave at school. Because by the time you get in home, where does got home? Before you even reach home. And even now, similar sort of thing. You do your business in town, by the time you leave town and you get home, they know your business. And I think it's just...

To All The Girls (30:41)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon (30:59)

There's an element, I suppose, when people come here, they want the lifestyle and they... because in the Caribbean, when you say you're from London, everyone assumes that you've got money. They always assume that you've got money. And it's like, you don't realise how hard you have to kind of work to get the money to just get the flight to get here. But they do. It's always they sort of think, you come from London, then they just think you must have money.

To All The Girls (31:11)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharon (31:26)

And that's one of the frustrating things about it, that assumption that because you live and work in the UK, or even America I guess, that you must have money. But it's the understanding that...

you know, we work really hard. And again, it's like you say, we do, we're here and we work and we work and we work and we make our bucks. But the only time you can really enjoy it is when you have to, when you go away. You can enjoy it here to an extent, but when you go away and you go to those places, that's when you really kind of appreciate and enjoy.

To All The Girls (31:44)

Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

Sharon (32:03)

When was the last time you,

when did you, where have you been?

To All The Girls (32:07)

⁓ where have I been? I've not, I've been, so my mum is Senegalese and my dad is Jamaican, so I've been both. I've been both. what was the experience? Jamaica was like more recent. I think Jamaica is the thing where...

Sharon (32:15)

Alright.

To All The Girls (32:30)

A lot of our family are not there anymore. So lot of my dad's cousins and stuff have moved away. My nan's house is still there thankfully but she's passed away. But we have our auntie and stuff. So I think my Jamaica experience, loved, I think it was more of a thing where you know when your soul fills it.

Sharon (32:32)

Okay.

Hmm.

Yeah.

To All The Girls (32:53)

When it was there, we were actually at a hotel for my brother's wedding, but my soul felt like... it just like... I just felt, yeah. Do you know what I mean? ⁓

Sharon (33:03)

You don't have to say anything.

Unfortunately, this is going to be audio, but I can see your face. So your face sort of says it all. It's just relaxed joy, no stress, no worry. And you don't wake up thinking, oh my God, I've got to do this, I've got to do that, I've got to... You just kind of wake up and it's like, okay, what's going to happen today?

To All The Girls (33:08)

Yeah.

⁓

Yeah exactly and even with Africa it's the same thing and like when I went like Senegal I feel like the love there as well was like having all your aunties and like your mum's aunties and all of that and like everyone is just there and they all treat you like you're their grandchild or you're their child you know what I mean and it's like you really feel the love from

Sharon (33:39)

Mmm.

Yeah.

To All The Girls (33:49)

the elders who are looking at you, you know, kinda like they're passing on the baton of just generations, you can really feel that. ⁓ But yeah, I would love to go again, I would love, I think I do, my soul needs that replenishment, definitely gonna need it.

Sharon (33:57)

Yeah, yeah, no, I get it.

I think you could go

and do great things for young women.

To All The Girls (34:12)

Thank you.

Sharon (34:14)

No, 100%.

Because they don't have the connect and things like what you're doing here. They don't have that. And the young people, I can't speak for all Caribbean islands, but the young people in Dominica are, they are disconnecting from their history, I guess.

To All The Girls (34:22)

Mm-hmm.

Bye.

Sharon (34:42)

you know, they've got a KFC in town and when you drive into the queue for the KFC is mad. And I'm like, I'm thinking, you know, you've got food on the trees, you've got food in the ground, you've got so much, you've got animal, whereas before they used to cook, parents, families, young people, they used to cook and they used to teach their children to cook.

To All The Girls (34:52)

I'm going to go with my bestie.

Sharon (35:11)

They don't cook anymore. Now it's a case of they're just gonna go dry. When we go to the beach, I couldn't believe it one year. Last year I was there and normally we make up our own barbecue. So you'd bring your barbecue and you'd season your meat the night before and prep and take it. Those people go to KFC and buy buckets to take to the beach. Yeah, they go to KFC and they will buy buckets of chicken.

To All The Girls (35:19)

huh.

Yeah.

away.

Sharon (35:40)

and go to the beach.

To All The Girls (35:41)

Are you sure that wasn't Taurus?

Sharon (35:43)

No, no, no, no, island people. And that's how, that's how things are kind of changing. But I mean, the government, dare I say, are not very, for the people, they are slightly, I don't want to use, well, corrupt, I guess, but you know, there's corruption everywhere in the world. But yeah, but that's how.

To All The Girls (36:05)

Yeah.

Sharon (36:07)

young people in the Caribbean are now. Everything is instant gratification. And I think for lot of the young people nowadays, especially with my year sevens, I see a lot of it, instant gratification. They want everything and they want it now. They have no understanding of boundaries. my God, you know, my office is on the ground floor. Yeah. So you'd knock on the door and you'd wait for a response.

they would knock on the door and if they didn't get the response within like 10 seconds they're knocking on the door again. You could be on the phone, then they're knocking on the door again and you have to turn around say to just give me a minute. And then when you say yes, what do you want? They will literally walk up to your face. Personal space does not exist with these young people. And you have to say to them, just take a step back and let's have a talk. So just certain things like that.

They just, and there's no, is it empathy? Socially emotional, that's non-existent. For a lot of them, it's non-existent. And I think COVID has a big part to play in that because they spent years at home and not being social with their peers. And then when they were, they did have that, it was not.

To All The Girls (37:08)

Yes, and when as well.

Yeah.

Sharon (37:29)

I don't want to say regulated, but it wasn't. ⁓

disgust maybe, it wasn't spoken about, it wasn't applied effectively, because when we came out of lockdown, you know, it was like straight back to school, targets, targets, targets, grades, grades, No, nothing about mental health. Nothing about mental health, nothing about the impact that COVID could have had on mental health of the children. And we're seeing it now. It's, it's, and having to deal with it now and it's hard work.

It's hard work. So... ⁓

To All The Girls (38:08)

So I think the

internet is a big part of playing that. A lot of kids are like, even my sister sometimes, they're just locked in the room, locked on the iPad. iPad, this is the iPad generation, just like on it the whole time. They struggle to socialize, there and have a conversation.

Sharon (38:12)

Ugh.

Yeah. Yeah. Mmm.

Yeah, their conversations are on the phone. I was speaking to one boy in my year group who, not disruptive in the lesson, very quiet, but doesn't engage, literally doesn't engage in any lesson. And he doesn't speak, not doesn't, but he just chooses not to converse. So I sort of managed to have a sort of a conversation with him and I sort of said to him, when you're at home, what do you do?

To All The Girls (38:32)

Yeah.

Sharon (38:58)

And he know he's I said, you game? And he was like, no, why not? I don't like gaming. Fair enough. Do have a games console? No. Okay. Do you watch Netflix? No. Because my parents weren't allowed. They don't see the point. Okay, fine. No problem. Do you read? Okay, so what do you do? I watch TikTok. Is that all you do? Yeah. And I just and I just chat on my phone.

Literally that was that's what he does. He goes home. I said do you not converse with your family your parents? He was like no can't be bothered Nothing there's nothing I need to say But and that's his life tick tock And and talk on and on the phones and that's it

To All The Girls (39:35)

That's a lot of people's lives though.

Sharon (39:44)

And I just think, and in my head I'm sort of thinking, what can I do to make students talk? And it's so difficult because of all the stuff that's going on at school. It's not like, whereas people like Miss Prevert had opportunity to provide spaces for people to talk, for children to come together. That's now not a possibility anymore because there's so much stuff going on in terms of... ⁓

targets and grades and structure of school and lessons and how it needs to be taught. So it's quite difficult. I've seen in my 20 odd years a massive shift from the type of teaching that used to happen to the type of teaching that they now want to see. I mean, I'll be honest, if I knew now...

If I knew then what I know now as a teacher, I don't think I'd become a teacher.

To All The Girls (40:43)

Yeah, you know what, like, really wanna get into it, cause I get so passionate about this topic of like schools and like every time like my sisters know, cause I get so angry, I'm like, I feel like schools are now businesses, there, and they're no longer about the kids. I don't wanna like get, cause I'm gonna get really heated, but.

Sharon (40:47)

You

Yep, that's how... Yeah. No,

I understand and I've said that myself. I said it's more about a business and it's more about targets and it's more about grades and squeezing the grades out of children. It's not... there's... I have to send it to you. That's why you need to get my thing. There's a... ⁓

thing that I sent to people on WhatsApp and it was about a guy who asked AI if you were the devil how would you you know distress students minds and all the response that the AI gave was literally what's happening in the world today. It was so

to the point and one of the things they said was about education they would it would education they would make education more about memorizing than learning so just remembering stuff to get through the exam as opposed to learning it.

and learning it for the sake of learning it because it's just things that you need to know, like you say, to engage your brain, to engage your mind, to allow you to have thought about things as opposed to just you need to remember this and remember that and remember that. So when the exam comes, you just transfer all of what you remembered from this piece of paper onto that piece of paper. And whether you remember it or not is irrelevant.

So, yeah, maybe one day we will have to have that conversation, but not now.

To All The Girls (42:40)

because I will

be here for hours and my voice will change but I'll be here. Let's move on. There's a different, I have a section right, it's called giving flowers and it's just a part where I allow the guests to honour a woman or a self-woman because I know in the world right now they love the media and just online love to put women against each other so I just want

Sharon (42:46)

Hahaha

Hmm?

Mm-hmm.

To All The Girls (43:09)

to have a section dedicated where you can choose. It doesn't have to be one woman, it could be multiple. That you just want to dedicate this section to or give her a thanks.

Sharon (43:24)

Yeah, there's not one. There's a load. there's, I could say, I could say my mum, I could say my sister. So I think I've taken from bits of, bits, I think I would say that I've taken from a range of different women. So it's like, I've got like my mum, my sister, I mentioned to you about Miss Piper, who was head of year. So I've taken from her. Currently now when I'm at school, Miss Hughes, who I work with, I'm constantly taking from her.

I'm reading Simply More, well I've just finished it, audiobook by Cynthia Revo and some of the stuff that she says, I've cried listening to that audiobook because of some of the things that she said. So it's never, I'll be honest and say, once upon a time I would have felt like I needed to find a person but this is part of my journey I guess.

There is no one person, it's a range of different people that have impacted either practically, impractically, you know, through book, through song, however, in what I do. So I cannot name just one, I'm afraid. There's too many. And students like yourself.

To All The Girls (44:42)

Yeah.

⁓ thank you.

Sharon (44:47)

Yeah,

because you know, like I said, I'm a teacher and I'm always learning. So, you know, the fact that you do what you do and you said I have had an influence on part of what you do, that has made an impact on me. So, hey, you're one of the many women in my life. You're very welcome.

To All The Girls (45:05)

Thank you. I feel so honored.

But yeah, thank you so much. I feel like I wasn't even expecting that one. I'm gonna lie. That's it. Because no, you know, it's not often that you're inspired from someone and then like they say you're an inspiration to you. So it's just, I just feel like, yeah, that actually just made me feel like, okay, that's cute.

Sharon (45:17)

Hahaha ⁓

Hmm.

Yeah, I mean, like

I said, there's too many. My daughter, just loads of women have dropped something in my life that's made me go, okay.

To All The Girls (45:36)

Yeah. Yeah.

Good.

Sharon (45:48)

and just look at things differently or shift how I do things in my life. Yeah, it's good.

To All The Girls (45:56)

Women are amazing, that's so cool.

Sharon (45:59)

And you know what?

We are. And I say that all the time to some of the girls at school. Today there was a whole, he said, she said, and she said, and this one said, and that one said, and this one come and told me. And I just had to say to them, you don't need to stop. And they sort of looked at me and even Mr. O'Layde came in and I said, this is one of the reasons why I kind of understand boys. Boys will hate each other for a time. They will beat on each other in the morning or the afternoon, by the end of the day or the next day, they're friends.

To All The Girls (46:09)

Yeah.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

They're Yeah.

Sharon (46:29)

I said, we as women, we have this whole thing about baggage. Why do we do that?

To All The Girls (46:35)

You know what it is, miss? I think girls, yeah, they... their friendships are a lot more like... I don't even want to say stronger, but they hold more importance, I feel like, compared to boys. And I feel like... You feel me?

Sharon (46:49)

No, no,

but I think, but it's a different type of importance. This is different, it's a different, because boys, I mean, my brother, who's older than me, obviously, but he's still in contact with his school friends, you know, and he lives in Jamaica and they live in America or wherever.

To All The Girls (46:56)

Yeah, that's that's

Yeah.

Sharon (47:11)

Yeah, and they have that and there's obviously, and when he comes to the UK and they get together, that's what they do. But when women do it, in the back of their minds, there's always that, I remember when you did this. And I remember when that happened. We won't say it, but it's always there. It's always there. Whereas me now, when I kind of go to people and I know people, and I see some of my old school friends, I haven't got time to worry about what you did, because that's done. ⁓

To All The Girls (47:11)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

⁓ Yeah.

Sharon (47:38)

That's done and that's passed and what I'm trying to get some of the girls at school to understand is we need to stop it. We need to stop it. We need to stop harping on what this one said and what that one said because at the end of the day it doesn't serve you. It doesn't. When I sent my daughter to school I said to her, don't make no friends. I said to don't make no friends. Don't have no best friends.

To All The Girls (47:47)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharon (48:04)

because

you'll get caught up in the one minute they really like you, the next minute they don't like you, you may have said something and then someone's got back to this one and then that one doesn't want to talk to you. That's just work. That's just work and effort. And having gone through it, I see the stress and I feel the pain because even I remember stuff from school.

To All The Girls (48:16)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (48:26)

You

know, I do, but it's no big deal for me now, but you know, and she'd come home and she'd be like, this has happened and that happened. And I'd be like, babe, you just need to step away. ⁓

To All The Girls (48:38)

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (48:38)

step away and then one day she came home and she was like you know what mum I just kind of take my book now and I go and sit under the tree at school and I just read my book and I went that's cool and you do that and they will say what they need to say because they think you're being extra or awkward or whatever eventually they'll get bored and the right people will find you

To All The Girls (48:45)

Yeah.

100 % 100 % and I you know what because when I went sixth form right when I first started sixth form I went in and I was like you know what I'm not my intention is not to make friends and I didn't say that I'm not going to but I was that's not what I'm here for right and I remember even when I first started there was a set of people that I was with and I was like hmm these people are not really for me and so I started distancing myself and I would literally sit on the sofa read a book or scroll on

Sharon (49:12)

Yeah.

To All The Girls (49:28)

whatever by myself I would be by myself like that was just me like and I I could have appeared lonely which in secondary school would have been my biggest fear because I was like there's no way I can be alone I'm gonna look like this but anyway at this point I was like look I don't really care I'd rather be by myself then not to have people like to have people that don't align with me or like yeah around and then I met

Sharon (49:30)

Mmm.

Hahaha

Yeah.

To All The Girls (49:55)

like the most amazing friends ever like i love my friends and they've taught me so much about myself and about friendship as well because before when i was in school like i said like like you were saying there's just all this drama riff about this person that person da da da you know of that and it was just like it was just too much for me and it was just like i i had some friends but even then like some of them they didn't feel as aligned as the ones that i have now

Sharon (50:10)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah of course.

To All The Girls (50:25)

if that makes sense because

there was just too much ⁓ that came with it and when you kind of like make that decision okay look I'm just gonna do me that's when you find the most amazing stuff of people so I definitely agree with that definitely

Sharon (50:29)

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, and I

know it's going to be hard because like you say, when you're in secondary school, you don't want to be that one that's on the sideline for people to kind of be going. But, you know, she got through it and she did. And I mean, she's got her friends. She still has friends. But like you, when she went to college, she made a whole new batch of people, which she even now they got together just after Christmas.

To All The Girls (51:08)

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (51:09)

So

you know it and but I think also with both my kids they were happy to leave school because I remember my son saying to me when he started college he was like it's so nice to be in a classroom with people who want to learn.

To All The Girls (51:29)

Yeah.

Sharon (51:30)

I'll never forget that. And said, because when you were in school, you just, and there's people that you want to, you want to get on, you may not like the subject, but you want to get on. And then you've got the people who just kind of disrupt because whatever reason, and they're just a nightmare. And they just make the whole lesson just rubbish. So he couldn't wait to leave school. Neither of them could. So when they left, it was like,

they were in a totally different space. And like you say, they were with people that they could align with, like-minded people who wanted to be there. So some people just outgrow school. I do have some of girls, this whole girl thing is just, I don't know if it will ever go away. I think it's just in our DNA. And some of us will get it at certain points in our life. And maybe some of us won't, but if I can.

drip feed elements of don't sweat the small stuff, you know, that's not what you're here for, to some of the girls in school at the moment, then, you know, and take it through to year 11. And then that's one box ticked, I guess, in terms of my role.

To All The Girls (52:39)

Yeah, I feel like

Also though, feel like when you come into secondary, I feel like there's a lot of girls who feel like that's what they need to be like and they feel like that's a narrative that they need to fulfill because I feel like in primary, people don't even have school drama like that, like it's little kiddy things, you know? And then somehow you come into year seven and everyone is like, my gosh, she said, he said, they said, we said, like, and it's like, it becomes a big thing because even like I look back to year seven for me,

Sharon (53:05)

Yeah.

Hahahaha!

To All The Girls (53:18)

what happened and and it was it was crazy because you know what would happen yeah it would be like people would have beef or this person this person not talking and then two weeks later let's bless it let's sort it out and then the next week the same thing and then it will like intertwine now this friendship this person's moved to this side this person moved to this side and every two weeks it would switch up obviously and then by year 11

Sharon (53:31)

Yeah.

Yep, something.

To All The Girls (53:46)

I feel like the conflicts became slightly more serious but it wasn't as common but they were more serious if that made sense. It was like the same set of people whereas like I feel like in year 7 it was just like everyone was just having issues with everyone, every other week. If that makes sense?

Sharon (53:50)

Right.

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah, of course, because one of the other things that I've sort of said that I say to people is when you were in primary reception year one, two, you didn't give a damn who you played with. You didn't care, you just because you just wanted to have fun and be a child. There were no issues. There was no big deal. People could still maybe say stuff, but you were like, whatever, I don't care. Then all of a sudden it became.

To All The Girls (54:16)

you.

yeah you just do a little bounce

down and walk off

Sharon (54:32)

Yeah, and then all of a sudden the

words became, the words were given meaning and then everything suddenly meant something and then it became a big deal. And my thing in my head is at what point in a child's life do you go from being a child and just living your life and not really caring about what people say or do or who you play with or what they look like to suddenly having all of those things. ⁓

To All The Girls (54:39)

Mmm.

Sharon (55:01)

be a factor in how you live. That's always been a fascination for me. When does that shift happen? When do you go from not caring to just enjoying yourself and even the lessons, just doing the lessons and then going out to play and doing your lessons and then going out to lunch and everything's fine to just, I don't want to sit next to you.

To All The Girls (55:06)

Mmm.

Sharon (55:27)

I don't want to sit next to a boy or I don't want to sit next to that girl or we're not speaking anymore or when did that suddenly become you know I could never understand at what age that kicks in I'm sure someone out there has done some research on it

To All The Girls (55:41)

Yeah, I don't

Probably. I feel like...

I know, yeah, there's a lot of pressure when it, I think especially when you make that jump from ⁓ primary to secondary, especially around image, the way you want to be perceived. think social media plays such a big part in it now as well. And then ego. So it's like, if someone is trying to craft about you and then someone comes to you saying that they're trying to craft about you, the right thing to do, what a parent are like in everyone else's

Sharon (55:54)

to secondary, yeah.

Yep. Yep.

To All The Girls (56:17)

as is now you need to do something back or like you need to confront that you know if you don't confront that you look a certain way then you know one thing I hate and it's it's really sad it's always guys who are coming and instigating girls girls drama beef like just to stir the little pot they will come in and like

Sharon (56:20)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

To All The Girls (56:42)

instagate and they don't even care they're just doing it for entertainment and then the girls are just like we'll give you to that and then it's like ⁓ it's just so irritating i'm just like we need to do that yeah exactly like we need to do we need to do better in in terms of like choosing to ignore whatever it is that

Sharon (56:46)

Yep.

Yeah, and they don't see it. Yeah.

Yeah.

To All The Girls (57:08)

Because the response that these boys or even girls, whoever want from you, you don't have to give in to that, you know? Like, yeah, it doesn't, it really doesn't matter.

Sharon (57:13)

Give it to them. Yeah, of course.

But it is, it's like you

say, it's always about having to save face or this one said that you can't just let it go, you've got to go and do something about it. No you don't. I don't have to do anything about it. What am I going to get out of it? Nothing. You're going to get, I will probably get suspended already, tension. You get entertainment, why?

To All The Girls (57:22)

would.

Really good.

exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. And it's hard though. I know it's hard because the thing is, because I remember being at school and like not responding and stuff like that

just your dialogue. You're not saying anything, yada, yada, yada. But then it's like, also the people who they were trying to instigate and stuff, they, it's not, how do I explain it? It's not that they're doing it because they actually care. They're doing it solely for entertainment.

And you sit there think because they're telling you, you need to do this. You need to let you think that they might be respecting you more for it. Because that's what they're saying, but that's not what they actually mean. Do you get why they're just using as that form of entertainment? Whereas like someone who might, who might not retaliate in the moment, everyone is looking at me like, you know, or, or might be looking at whoever it is that's choosing not to retaliate like.

Sharon (58:16)

Yeah.

mean yeah yeah

To All The Girls (58:35)

you're so boring, you're so this, you're so that, you're so this and you're so that but then you will see the way that those people approach you will be way different to compare to the people that they know or always clapping back or like having something to say

Sharon (58:48)

They do. They push you into stuff or they push people into stuff. And like you say, they do. There is that thought of they're doing it because they kind of care for you and they want you to be strong and they want you to stand up for yourself. No, they don't. just want to, literally. Because when you get into trouble, where are they in their lesson? Duh.

To All The Girls (58:54)

Mm-hmm.

and see they just want to yeah

Yeah, literally. It's literally as he said. And it's just like, I remember I would have people like come up to me and be like, ⁓ I don't understand because people would say, I'm easily aggravated or I'm easily this and easily that. And then the moment I choose not to retaliate or I choose not to something, they would then be like, ⁓

like why you not retaliating need to stick up for yourself bloody bloody blah and i'm like because you need to look at these people don't actually care do you know i mean like they they they just want just want entertainment from you and it's like in the moments that you think when there's like they're saying you're this you're that for not responding for not for not saying anything yeah they might not verbally say that they

Sharon (59:43)

Mm.

Don't... Yeah?

To All The Girls (1:00:04)

they respect you or this and that but I promise you the way that they then approach you they're not gonna annoy you as much because they know you're not someone who likes to get... you know what I mean? exactly and I feel like I feel like that's what I found when I was in school even though people would say to me oh Fatima like you know oh you're so this you're so that like at the end of the day the way you approached me

Sharon (1:00:12)

yeah there's strength in silence there's strength in silence

To All The Girls (1:00:31)

compared to the way you approach people who might have retaliated was way different. They'll call me whatever you like but I'm fine where I am. Do know what I mean?

Sharon (1:00:35)

Yeah.

And that's one of the other things about people being okay with themselves. And a lot of girls, unfortunately, are not okay with themselves because part of it is what you say, social media. They feel that they have to look a certain way or be a certain way or act a certain way and in order for people to like them. again, I go back to one of the girls in my old year group who used to wear lashes. And I was like, why are you wearing those big sails on your eyes?

And she was like, well somebody said to me that I look really pretty with them on and I went, did they say that beforehand? They went, no. I said, well, maybe they need to take a better look at you because you you've just put something on and you're, apart from the lashes, you were pretty before the lashes and that's what they needed to identify you with or identify you as being pretty before the lashes. Why is it all of a sudden you've got the lashes on? You look different.

To All The Girls (1:01:09)

Yeah.

Sharon (1:01:35)

But why is it a case of you look prettier with the lashes? You just look different. They accentuate your features.

To All The Girls (1:01:43)

Yeah.

Sharon (1:01:43)

but your

natural features are just as beautiful, if not more so. And the fact that they cannot get that, again, is frustrating that because someone said they look nice with the lipstick or they look nice with the eyeshadow, then they're gonna wear it more and more and more. They didn't dislike you without it. They've made a comment about how you look with it, but that doesn't mean that you then have to change to fit their narrative. Annoying. I had to tell... ⁓

To All The Girls (1:02:07)

And it's so hard

for you to

Sharon (1:02:10)

Yeah,

no, just had to say one of my year seven girls said they asked, I just went to her, you see this? Not tomorrow. And she went, yes, miss.

To All The Girls (1:02:14)

Yeah.

No, no, no, no, no, no,

I'm so happy that I had my parents who were able to talk to me about those things and kind of like validate how I looked and not building me to push that narrative of like, you know, you need the makeup and da da da. For me, I know how it feels because you will be on social media minutes and you see these girls and you see your age mates and you see them with the wigs and the lashes and the nails and everything and you're thinking damn, I look at me and I look like I'm 12. This girl looks like, you know, she's girl, she's doing da da da da.

Sharon (1:02:48)

Yeah.

To All The Girls (1:03:08)

and then like you know you're just kind of making that comparison like well maybe I should start doing this a little bit differently do you know what I mean especially when you're getting that age and then you know okay this person's getting attention or that person's getting attention and you're just looking at yourself and it can make you really feel like a certain type of way so I understand

Sharon (1:03:17)

Yeah.

but the question is are they

getting the attention for the right reasons?

To All The Girls (1:03:31)

exactly

exactly and that's where that's why i'm comfortable with where i'm at that's one thing that i had to like tell myself and i know so that's why i'm just like you know what i mean but however for other people they don't understand that

Sharon (1:03:49)

but you know what, being comfortable in your own skin is key. It's not easy, but it is something that young people, young girls need to learn to be. And like you say, you had parents and I was like that with my children. And the fact that some parents will allow their children to leave their house.

To All The Girls (1:03:53)

and yeah.

100 %

Yeah.

It's the pressure. That's what I'm saying. It's literally the pressure and I told you like social media It will amplify that and I think in a world where like you said like the guy in your year group That's all you're on like you go to school you come back tick tock tick tick tock tick tick tock That's your reality now. So now you're seeing all these other girls dressed up looking like this You're like and then you're looking at yourself and you're like hold on and then that's the two worlds they're

Sharon (1:04:29)

Yeah! ⁓

To All The Girls (1:04:41)

so now they're trying to see what they take online and bring that into the reality in real life and dress up and do all of that and it's like, like sometimes I just want to take girls and like just shake them and wake them up and you know, like it's just like, guys, like it's okay, you know, it, ugh, but yeah.

Sharon (1:04:55)

Shake the...

Yeah, mean, like, but again, it's, it is social media, but also I say it as a parent is parenting. Because they don't necessarily have the support of the parents for the parents to say, and I don't know if they say it, you're beautiful. You don't need to be different. Maya one day, I remember she, when she was at secondary school, she was like, can I wear this and that? No.

To All The Girls (1:05:11)

Yeah.

Sharon (1:05:29)

What for? Yeah, well other girls, I don't care. I didn't put any of the other girls on this earth. I put you on the earth and you're beautiful as you are. You don't need to be putting anything on your face because the other girls are doing it. What you need to do is go to school and put in your brain. That's it. I said, when you finish school, do what you like. Paint it, colour it, don't care. But whilst you're there at school, you're there for that reason and you're there for the learning. And I said, then why would you wanna...

To All The Girls (1:05:35)

Yes.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:05:56)

dress or be a certain way at school and then be the same way on the street when you're going out with your friends. You want to be a certain way at school and then when you go out you want to look different for them to go ⁓ you look really nice yeah otherwise you look really nice at school you don't look no different when you're out and you look really nice when you're out you know so just just

To All The Girls (1:06:03)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:06:17)

Should be versatile in that respect go to school be be what you need to be at school when you go out You want to put on a little makeup there with your mates fine not a problem, but it doesn't need to be in school Doesn't need to be in school And they look at me

To All The Girls (1:06:29)

yeah even when it comes my mom because my mom

used to always do that too like if i would come back and say oh but this person's got this oh but this person's got that oh my days that was it she was like don't come here and tell me about what this person is so this person i'm just like okay sorry like i would i could not come and talk about oh but this person has this

Sharon (1:06:39)

Mm-hmm.

No,

neither could my daughter. No?

To All The Girls (1:06:57)

Forget about it. Because it's like that you're not that person, that person is not you, that person is not my responsibility and stuff. yeah, I get that 100%. And I think like it's important to, what's the word, reiterate like it's, of course, go to school looking presentable. That's a complete different thing. Like present yourself well, but then to go above and beyond like.

Sharon (1:07:03)

Yeah, Yep.

Yep. ⁓

To All The Girls (1:07:28)

There's just not a need, especially when your intention is for other people, is to impress others, you know? And I think that's where the issue lies. Because it's like now this is no longer about feeling confident in yourself. It's solely because of praise and for other people. And unfortunately when you rely on that, like it will mess you up. Because from the moment you know you do a new hairstyle or try a new look and no one's saying anything to you, you feel a type of way.

Sharon (1:07:34)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm.

To All The Girls (1:07:58)

You know? And it's like, the way you walk, your confidence relies on others, essentially.

Sharon (1:08:06)

Yeah, yeah. Now though, it's really interesting, they're trying to do away with the makeup at school. So what they've said to the year, because no lashes, no makeup, so they can't go into their exam if they're wearing makeup or lashes. And nose piercings was the initial thing. So no nose piercings, no lashes, no eye makeup, no Mendy.

To All The Girls (1:08:13)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:08:36)

So they can't, none of that when they go in. So a lot of the year 11 girls who used to wear makeup, now I see them without makeup and I have to go, oh, look at you, gorgeous. And they look at me and smile. And I think, well, when you had your war paint on, I couldn't even recognise you.

To All The Girls (1:08:51)

Yeah, no, I love that. You know what? It's so good that you're doing that because I think I you know, I just feel for them because it's like

I know so many girls who are just so insecure without makeup. So insecure. I just feel so, but I'm just like, I don't know what it is gonna take for you to just be able to look at yourself and be like, am enough. Like, I am perfect the way that I am.

Sharon (1:09:21)

I am, yeah.

To All The Girls (1:09:24)

It's one thing to just quickly to just set a rule and say you're not allowed makeup, you're not allowed this, you're not allowed that but when someone is deeply insecure it's important to give them that reassurance and to help them get through the deep rooted issue if you know that if you know what I mean. Because when you walk in, for example me, when I was in school

Sharon (1:09:41)

Mmm.

To All The Girls (1:09:46)

like towards the beginning when my hair was a lot shorter i was very insecure about my hair and if i had ever come into school with my natural hair forget about it like i was so like i was not confident throughout the day even like in lessons i didn't want to talk i didn't want to draw attention to myself i would hide you know what i mean and that's a crappy feeling especially if you're doing exams so i can imagine like someone who used to make up do that and then coming into exam and just feeling so crap about themselves i think it's very important to like get to

Sharon (1:10:05)

Yeah.

To All The Girls (1:10:16)

that for those who are insecure and feel that type of way, offering them that assurance of like you know you are beautiful the way you are and helping them tackle that instead of just you're not allowed lashes you're not allowed makeup because there is a lot deeper than that now if you know what I mean

Sharon (1:10:29)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think many teachers have those conversations or make those comments. It is just about take them off if you're not allowed. But I will try to back it up with, you don't need it. Why are you wearing it? It's, you know.

To All The Girls (1:10:41)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:10:48)

you never had it on before, you didn't have it on in year six, you don't need it now, you don't need it, you're beautiful just the way you are. But again, if it's not something that they're being told regularly, then they won't hear it and they won't get it. Because they've never been told, they've just been told that when they have the makeup that they look lovely, they look beautiful. So that's it moving forwards. If they were told that without it, then they might not have made that shift.

To All The Girls (1:11:04)

Yeah.

Sharon (1:11:18)

So there's not enough of, you don't need it. What are you wearing the makeup for? You look gorgeous without it, please.

you know, stop wearing it. And I do, and there's one year 11 girl who suddenly, and every so often I see her and I sort of go, glowing, look at you. And I get a smile and I think, yeah, so, you know, I get a little bit of a smile just to remind her and to remind a few of the others that you know what, I never used to bother you when you had it on, but now you've got it off. I'm looking at you and I'm telling you how gorgeous you look. Before I didn't, didn't use to give you a time a day.

To All The Girls (1:11:34)

Ha ha ha.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:11:51)

So a bit more of that needs to be told in order for them to understand that they don't need to have it. But yeah, it's who's gonna do that. Like I said, and again, like you say, if they're not getting it home, it's gonna be hard.

To All The Girls (1:12:07)

Home is, you know what, because even when you're saying about parenting, home is super important. I think that's where it all begins, because for me, from when I was little, both of my parents would reiterate that. My dad would not fail to make sure that we knew that we were like, we were enough.

Sharon (1:12:14)

Mmm.

Yeah.

To All The Girls (1:12:28)

it was and it was a consistent thing from from a little girl to now even just how you're how he will call us oh you are beautiful do you know what i mean things like that it it will take her it helps with how your confidence then comes out when you're when you get to that stage

Sharon (1:12:38)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

100 % agreed.

To All The Girls (1:12:51)

Yeah, but hopefully you

I mean, by step, baby steps, and hopefully with teachers like you, we can combat that.

Sharon (1:13:03)

Yeah, I mean, you know what, you save as many as you save and you get as many as you can on board and understanding. It's not going to be everybody, but the ones that you do capture, it's all good. And that's part of the teaching experience. The ones that you do capture, you know, will always remember you and, you might see them every so often.

To All The Girls (1:13:06)

in

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:13:26)

or you know get the thank you at the end and that's that for me is another reason why I guess I've stayed because it's just nice to see the comebacks and it's really weird because I see parents who have brought their children who used to be students so

To All The Girls (1:13:26)

Mm.

Sharon (1:13:48)

So like somebody in my, lots of kids in my year group, a lot of their parents are ex-students from way back. Yeah, and you know, and they kind of remember you and they say thank you and that's the part of teaching that I love. You know, all the negative stuff, which there's usually a lot of, it's those moments that make you realise, you know what, this is why I do what I do.

To All The Girls (1:13:55)

⁓ okay.

Alright.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sharon (1:14:16)

And like I say, even if it's a handful that you manage to have an impact on, is paying it forwards is always a great thing. So they will always pay it forwards and they will always pay it forward. So like you, you have remembered myself and people like Miss Probert and things that we've done and now you are paying it forward. So we've done our bit.

We've done our bit. You're welcome.

To All The Girls (1:14:47)

Thank you. Thank you.

Honestly, out like from the bottom of my heart man, like I think back to you guys all the time. Just even so many teachers just in general, especially in school, because even going back to like...

when one's talking about how schools and everything is about academics and yada yada yada yeah cool I love studying I'm not even gonna sit here and lie I love studying but I think I learn way more from extracurricular stuff and associating myself with like being with you guys those lessons have stuck with me way more than anything I've learned in like geography or math and it's just like

Sharon (1:15:32)

Because it's real talk.

know, like when you're in Mr. ... it's real talk. When you sit in Mr. Osebro and you just talk. And you just have those conversations and you talk about life and those opportunities where you can be real and you can be open and say what you need to say with no judgement.

To All The Girls (1:15:37)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:15:52)

and just have a teacher go, yeah, you're right or no, you're not right or you debate what it is you need to say. Outside of the classroom, those things don't happen enough and to have those spaces to do that is essential and they're necessary because it gives students the opportunity to express and not feel a way about having to do it and not be judged on it.

To All The Girls (1:16:12)

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:16:17)

And that's one of the things like we were talking about, anyone that is about being judged, do, a lot of people do what they do because they don't want to be judged, they want to fit in, they want to be part of, you know, they want to look good and they don't want to be judged on how they actually are because they're then out of the little circle, they're not in people's narratives. And like you say, those spaces that you had outside of the learning,

To All The Girls (1:16:17)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:16:45)

was an important space and you know we don't have them that often but when we do and they make the impact it's a special thing.

To All The Girls (1:16:47)

Okay.

and I'm so glad for it and appreciative for ⁓ it.

Sharon (1:17:01)

But we as

teachers enjoy it. We do. We love it. And afterwards we'll kind of go, yeah, do that conversation we had? Yeah, do you remember that? So for us it is, and then other conversations will come up with students. then conversations that we've had with students like yourselves, we can say, we knew this student who did.

To All The Girls (1:17:05)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:17:26)

So we can bring all of that into current narratives of people and of students because of how you've allowed us into your space by being open and being free and being able to talk and being comfortable. we can say to people that we've had students do that and be that and you know what, it's been all good.

So we use you guys as examples, believe it or not, for when we talk to the younger generation.

To All The Girls (1:17:59)

⁓ But you know what it is like It's also you like you guys in terms of how you allowed that space for us and The thing is is like each teacher has their own individual like thing that they bring Like for you like you helped me so much with

Sharon (1:18:09)

Yeah.

To All The Girls (1:18:22)

When I was in school, yeah, I just felt like I had to be so strong, you like, you know, this idea of like a black woman has to be strong and like, just, you know, she has to anyway. So in the 11, I was very much trying to, um, I was

Sharon (1:18:34)

Yeah.

To All The Girls (1:18:43)

Coming into the grasp of understanding vulnerability and allowing myself to be vulnerable. And I felt like when I was navigating that, you were like the main person who just helped me feel safe in doing that. Because I would always come to you when things would happen. And at this point, I was so new to allowing myself to feel sad or in front of people. You know what mean?

distress and like I remember even like seeing you in the corridor just like start crying or like going to you for stuff and like sometimes you were like that nudge like of like you were harsh but soft at the same time I don't even know how you got it so perfect but like you were telling me like you need to go out you need to go out I'm gonna make sure you go out like because like I would have so much on my mind and stuff but it was I'm just so grateful for that because it was like having you there

Sharon (1:19:25)

Hahaha

To All The Girls (1:19:43)

I just don't know how to have done it without you honestly

Sharon (1:19:46)

You're very welcome. That's one of the joys of being a teacher and being able to connect with students on that level. And to be honest, are times when I do and I don't realise I'm doing because I just do. So it's not even about being a teacher, it's just about being a person.

To All The Girls (1:20:07)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:20:12)

And

you know, it's about being a mum, it's about being, yes, a teacher, it's about being a female, it's just about being a person and wanting for everybody to just be happy, my gosh, you know, and enjoy and just to get through and for them to realise that there are people who they can talk to and come to and know judgment, because that's a big thing, I think, for young people, judgment.

And you know, once we have our little thing and people go away happy and they've yelled and screamed and shouted and done what they need to do and if they've let it all go then that's it. And if I could be that sounding board then I'm good with that. I'm good with that. I'm good. Miss Dennis! Yeah. Okay fine yeah, no problem.

To All The Girls (1:20:55)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Who's that? No, you're not. I remember I was coming to your office like...

Oh, because you know what it was? I think when I was head girl, I wanted to do so much. And they just wouldn't allow me. Yeah! I was so frustrated.

Sharon (1:21:16)

and it wasn't cupping in. Yeah.

To All The Girls (1:21:21)

I was like, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying, and nothing, no one's letting me do anything.

Sharon (1:21:25)

But it's really

funny now, look, you weren't able to then, because it wasn't your time. Now look at what you're doing. You're doing what you want. Because this is where you were supposed to be, I guess. You know, I'm a big, I'm not religious. There were things that happened in my past that kind of made me question.

To All The Girls (1:21:30)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 100%.

Hmm.

Mm.

Sharon (1:21:51)

But I do believe in the universe, so I put things out to the universe. And you know, at that time, where you were, your frustration was not where you were supposed to be because this...

is what's happening now. So you now have that platform to have that voice and to say what you need to say and to do exactly what it is you wanted to do that you couldn't do in school but maybe in a different ⁓ way.

To All The Girls (1:22:22)

Yeah. 100%.

Sharon (1:22:24)

And that's what it is, you know, I never used to really believe it, but they say things happen for a reason. And there are things that I probably never used to pay much attention to, but there's elements now in my life where I pay attention. And it's like, okay, I put that out there to the universe and this is how I get it back. I do, if I put something out there to the universe.

I know I get it back but never necessarily in the way I want it because it will never give it to you how you want it. It's always not expected. So I believe in that and then also things like just how my day pans out nowadays. I try to make sure that my mind's clear when I get up in the morning and my thing is I'm gonna have a good day and

To All The Girls (1:22:58)

on it. Yeah.

Sharon (1:23:16)

If stuff comes to me, depending on how people are, I have to remember that it's their story and not to get caught up in their story. So whereas once upon a time a teacher, a member of myself, like SLT might come to me and say, oh, Miss Dennis, and I would be like, really? And I'd get really mad. Now I just kind of go, Because I think, you know, they come and send it to me in a certain way. I don't know what their story is.

To All The Girls (1:23:39)

Yeah.

Sharon (1:23:44)

They might have had a bad night, they might have had a bad morning, you know, so they've just come and my other big thing is thank you. People panic when I say thank you. Yeah. my God, can I say names? I guess I have to now.

To All The Girls (1:23:44)

Yeah.

Is it? give an example, like how do you...

Sharon (1:24:00)

There was a little bit of a set to between myself and him in front of students in a detention and I had to say to him, this isn't the time for us to have this conversation. then later on, normally I would have just left it and let it fester and gone home and cried and be really upset. And I just thought, you know what? No, I can't, I need to just let people know. So I sort of approached him and I sort of said, just a word. I just want to let you know how I feel.

To All The Girls (1:24:18)

Yeah.

Sharon (1:24:29)

you don't have to do anything with it, but I didn't appreciate this, I didn't like the way that that happened and he tried to explain why he did it and I said that's fine, but I just want you to know that at that point, at that time, I didn't feel that it was right and this is how I felt. But at the same time, I want to say thank you. And he went, I don't know what to do with that.

To All The Girls (1:24:29)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:24:54)

and I went, you can do what you like with it, but I just want to say thank you. And I say it because in the confrontations or possible altercations or situations that may come up with people, I then learn about their behaviour, which is why I say thank you. Yeah. So, so if...

To All The Girls (1:25:12)

Yeah.

Okay. Oh,

I like that. Yeah.

Sharon (1:25:17)

Do you see what I mean? So if something's

happened or someone said something or da da, or there's a bit of an altercation, I just sort of take a step back and I take a deep breath and I sort of reflect on it a bit. And then I just have to go, thank you. And they look at me like, and I think because you know what? I now know how to deal with you. I now know how to deal with you. I now know, you know.

what moving forwards how our relationship, working relationship is going to be. Because with this person, I've heard a lot of people say, ⁓ he's this way. And I've never come across the negative parts of how he'd been. And it was that one time where I got it that time. And so that's why I just had to say to him, thank you.

To All The Girls (1:26:05)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:26:08)

Because

you know what, in my head I thought, now I know, I get it, it's all good. And he did, he was like, I don't know what to do with that. And I said, you can do with it what you want. I just wanted to say thank you because in my head I'm like, now I understand. Now I fully understand and appreciate. And then he'd walk down the corridor and every so often put his head down.

To All The Girls (1:26:27)

You know, I need to look at that book because me with my manager I should probably start saying thank you.

Sharon (1:26:36)

Yeah, because

they don't know what to do with that. And it is also about learning. When stuff happens, two things, you don't know what their story is, and they may be reacting the way they act towards you because they have a story. And it could be anything from, they didn't get any last night, to they woke up.

To All The Girls (1:26:46)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:26:58)

they woke up and they had a really bad night, do you know what mean? And people take things out on people without realising it because of how they are in that moment. So I've learnt not to take on people's stories. So when people snap at me, rather than me go, I just kind of go, okay, they must have a bit of a story.

To All The Girls (1:26:58)

you

Okay.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:27:23)

because sometimes it's not normally how they are, so therefore in that moment, there's something going on. And it's just easier to deal with people that way rather than take things personally. I just go, yeah, you got a story, I don't know what it is, but it's all good. And then, yeah, when you have your little confrontation, at the end of it, you go, thank you. And they look at you like, what did I do?

To All The Girls (1:27:23)

Yeah.

you

on

Yeah, you know it's so funny because I was literally thinking about this today like because when I was coming back from work I was like I was like I can't stand humans like ugh like I was so frustrated

Sharon (1:27:51)

You know?

HAHAHAHA

To All The Girls (1:28:03)

And then I remember just saying to myself, you know what, I'm going to look at this person feeling sorry for them. Cause I was like, you know what, like maybe that, cause you just, like you said, you don't know their story. You don't know what. And it's easier for me to look at you from a pace of pity so that I don't feel the need to like punch someone. And I'm not even, I'm not even a violent person, but sometimes people like, I'm just like,

Sharon (1:28:15)

Story, yeah.

Ha ha ha ha!

To All The Girls (1:28:31)

you know what i mean like some people get irritated but i feel like at the end of the day it's on me to decide how i'm i'm gonna control my emotions towards this because i don't know how you're gonna act or if you're gonna still be this way or whatever but if i choose to put it from a place of okay you know what you're probably like going through something or whatever it helps you you know

Sharon (1:28:41)

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yep, yep, don't know your story and I'm not taking it on.

To All The Girls (1:28:58)

exactly 100 % but I will say though you know what my problem is is I I'm very like passionate when things are not right

Sharon (1:29:07)

Yep.

To All The Girls (1:29:08)

So when someone does something it's not right, I'm just like, but why? Like what you're doing is so wrong, it's so incorrect. And I always want to like, I always feel the need to fight or at least say something or like do something. Cause I wouldn't say I'm the most confrontational person. However, my face, my face is a lie. I'm not gonna lie. It doesn't lie. People always tell me Fatima your face. I'm like, I'm sorry. don't know.

Sharon (1:29:27)

Mm.

To All The Girls (1:29:38)

face I'm making right now but so I know people definitely get the hint but it's just like sometimes when I know that something is not right for example like if I'm at work and everyone is miserable no one's like for me it's like I can't sit here and not do something about it in my head it's like I need to speak up for this do you know what I mean like especially when I have like certain values and things and I'm like this is not

Sharon (1:29:39)

Yeah.

To All The Girls (1:30:05)

this is not right and I feel like that's why sometimes I take things on a lot and I'm just like it's bothering me because what you're doing is incorrect

Sharon (1:30:10)

Yeah.

When you say what they're

doing, what do you mean?

To All The Girls (1:30:20)

⁓ It's just like in terms of how you're making people feel and how you're treating

Sharon (1:30:25)

No, see,

don't forget they're not making anybody feel any way is how you're choosing to feel. Which is why I say don't take on their story because then that way you choose to feel that way. So somebody could be miserable and you could just be happy. And if they're being miserable, you know what? That's your story. I'm having a good day. Yeah, because sometimes some of the kids, I'll get mixed, some of the kids go, oh, why are you happy today? And I have to go, I'm always happy.

To All The Girls (1:30:29)

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:30:54)

and they look at me and I go, yeah, I'm always happy. It's when people are not doing what they're supposed to be doing and they're misbehaving, then I'm not always that happy and I have to make it real clear. But otherwise, I'm always happy. So like now when people say to me, how are you? I go, I'm great. I'm great. And when you think about it, I am because, you know, I've got what I need. I've got the basics, I've got everything. So realistically, I am.

To All The Girls (1:31:03)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:31:24)

My life and my situation may be not brilliant but when you ask me that question, how are you, I will tell you how I am. I am great. You didn't say how are things or how's your life. Yeah, you said how are you. I'm great. And they sort of look at me and they go good. I think yeah, because I am. You know, what's happening with me outside of me may not be great but...

To All The Girls (1:31:25)

Right, yeah.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sharon (1:31:53)

I personally am great and that's how I try to move forwards in my life and spend my day. And so when people are ⁓ vexed or miserable or upset, I just have to go, never mind. And in my head I'm like, you know, it's your story, that's okay. And there's some things that I also send out to people. There's a guy that I listen to, he's like a Buddhist.

To All The Girls (1:32:00)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:32:20)

And he talks, he just talks about how we take on people's, like you say, their emotions, we get, we invest in their stories and we get caught up in it. And then we then ourselves just kind of get stressed and frustrated and annoyed and we should just stop doing it. You know, if they have their stories, that's their story. Don't get caught up in other people's stories because it just, it's hard work.

To All The Girls (1:32:28)

you

Mm.

Yeah,

100%. It's, um... Yeah, sorry, you saying? Yeah. I'm actually gonna take a leaf out of that book. But it's... What I saying is, it's very similar to... There's a book that I was reading, it's called... The Courage to be Disliked. And basically, what he talks about in it is like this concept of separation of tasks.

Sharon (1:32:49)

is hard work. See you.

start saying thank you.

To All The Girls (1:33:15)

And basically what he's saying is like when you do something or like how other people take it is not your task.

Sharon (1:33:25)

Mm.

To All The Girls (1:33:26)

When you try to control how other people respond or how other people react, you are taking on a task that you have no control over and it's literally none of your business. like, you know, for example, if I was to sit here, if I had an altercation with someone and I went to apologize, me, my task is the apology. Whether they decide to accept it, how they respond to it, whatever they do is not my task.

Sharon (1:33:36)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

To All The Girls (1:33:54)

do me how I can only do what you can on your side if that makes sense I think it's definitely a great way to look at it because it's like it helps with like that narrative of like when you overthink or when you're trying to control what's the best way to word this or the best way to put it and it's like there's only so much control you actually have yeah

Sharon (1:33:58)

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Charlie, can have, yeah. Yeah, and sometimes there is no best way because we're then

always trying to think about how not to hurt feelings or how not to upset or on how not to make the matters worse. And so we're always analyzing what we say or what we do before we say and before we do it. You say it with love and you say it from the heart and how they choose to accept it is not your business. Yeah.

To All The Girls (1:34:42)

Yeah, exactly.

Sharon (1:34:43)

Once you've said it and you're sincere and you're honest, that's all you can do. The choice then is theirs. And if they hate you and they don't want to be your friend, great, one less person to stress about. Or they can go, you know, that's what I really appreciate that, really appreciate you for doing that. And then you go, thank you, because now you know they're mad psycho and had to deal with them.

To All The Girls (1:35:12)

No, I'm gonna actually I can't wait I can't wait and I'll tell you The first time I use it I'll tell you what what this one says. I I get ⁓ good I hope I get something I hope I scare someone

Sharon (1:35:15)

Hahaha!

Good.

You know what, is a, because they don't know what to do with it. You know, especially if you've had a big whole hoo-ha, and at the end of it you go, you know what, thank you. And it's like, where did that come from? What do I do with that? Do what you want, but you know what, now I'm real clear, moving forwards, and that's my thank you. That's my takeaway from this whole thing, that now I get you, and I get how we move forwards. So thank you for that. Everything's a lesson.

To All The Girls (1:35:33)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Sharon (1:35:59)

And when I say it to the kids, they go, what? I go, don't worry about it. Thanks.

To All The Girls (1:35:59)

Yes. Yeah, they'll probably be back soon.

Sharon (1:36:05)

Well, sometimes they feel really bad. go, thank you so much. I really appreciate you. And they go, oh miss. I'm like, We didn't mean it, no? You did mean it. And I'm thankful and I'm grateful that you meant it. Don't take it back. And it's like when they say sorry, I'm not interested in your sorry. And they look at me, I say, because you say sorry today, you say sorry tomorrow.

To All The Girls (1:36:12)

You

Yeah.

Sharon (1:36:26)

act on your sorry and then it's a whole different ball game. But when you just say sorry because you think I need to hear it, I'm not interested.

To All The Girls (1:36:29)

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sharon (1:36:36)

they do they're

gonna sorry miss but then they'll go away and do it again so don't say sorry yeah don't say sorry act show me and then you know then then it's all resolved it's all good because you think by saying sorry it's all fine and it ain't so yeah next question

To All The Girls (1:36:40)

Yeah, I get that.

Yeah.

⁓ I got a little, there's a segment called If I Were You. what happens is that the previous guest would have left the situation and then the current guest, yourself, would respond with, starting with, If I Were You. So, and then at the end you're gonna leave the situation for the next guest. If that makes sense.

Sharon (1:37:20)

So

I have to start if I were you.

To All The Girls (1:37:23)

Yeah, in response to the situation I'm about to give you, so you're going to give advice to our previous guests, right? Okay, so ⁓ in a week's time, you've got to deliver a presentation to a group of people. already know that public speaking makes you anxious. So what advice do you have for a previous guest? Starting with the words, if I were you.

Sharon (1:37:26)

Okay let's go. no, yep.

See now, if I were you, there's this whole thing of imagine your audience naked, but I don't think that works for a lot of people.

To All The Girls (1:38:01)

you

Sharon (1:38:02)

Cause then that way, I mean, I don't know if you've ever heard of that. They sort of say, you know, just to kind of put your mind at ease, just try and imagine everybody naked. What, but it's in my head, public speaking, depending on the context of what it is you're speaking about, be real. So whatever it is, cause this is again, I suppose, what is it that they're speaking about?

To All The Girls (1:38:11)

Oh, okay, yeah, I'll go with you.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Sharon (1:38:29)

Is

it something personal? Is it something business related? But whatever it is, be real, be honest and say what you say with integrity.

To All The Girls (1:38:40)

Yeah, 100%. I get that. feel like, yeah, public speaking, everyone is different ⁓ with like what they say. ⁓

Sharon (1:38:51)

Yeah,

I couldn't be, I'm rubbish at public speaking because I'm too emotional.

To All The Girls (1:38:59)

So how does that affect your public speaking? Yeah.

Sharon (1:39:02)

Well, in assembly, I guess that's a form of public speaking.

Sometimes I can, when I talk to the students, try to be, no, I will be honest and I like to try and give real life scenarios about certain things depending on what it is. When it's adults, again, depending on what it is, it's like you saying about when...

To All The Girls (1:39:21)

Mm.

Sharon (1:39:28)

You are passionate about something, your tone suddenly changes, your mannerism suddenly changes, and I just get, and in my head I'm sort of thinking, not angry black woman, where, yeah, I suppose when I'm people perceive me as being different.

To All The Girls (1:39:33)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:39:46)

So,

you know, it's like I have to maybe tone it down or I have to be mindful about how I put forward what I want to say. But yeah, I'm an emotional beast. I'm terrible. And if I'm passionate about something, then, you know, I possibly end up crying because I am...

To All The Girls (1:40:10)

I was gonna say I love to believe it's sad because I think someone's passion is their power and I think you should be able to like we should be able to do that without having to think are they gonna think this because I think I'm exactly the same and I think also my East London tone comes out a lot more as well when I'm passionate so I found a little bit more like a bit more hood because I'm like

Sharon (1:40:16)

Mm-mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

To All The Girls (1:40:39)

And I'm just like, ⁓ but I think like that's your most, those are your most powerful moments. Cause it's really coming from the inside. I think, yeah, I think it's sad that we have to, you know, think about it and just like, I'm going to be perceived this way or that. It's kind of annoying.

Sharon (1:40:46)

Mmm. Inside,

Yeah, but

I think I would like to be able to have those moments, because don't public speak a lot at all to be honest, but to have those moments, to be passionate, but take away the emotion.

To All The Girls (1:41:07)

Mm. Mm.

Yeah, okay. Okay. Yes. I get what you mean.

Sharon (1:41:20)

Yeah.

Not to be emotionless, but to not include my emotions that then ends up me being blubbery and tearful and angry and, you know, sounding angry and, but just to be, I don't even want to say professional, because it doesn't even have to be professional. It just has to be honest. But not in your face and not, yeah, not,

To All The Girls (1:41:24)

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:41:49)

just tone the emotion down a think a bit. Because my sister said that to me the other day, she asked me to do something and then she went, you know what, Sharon, maybe I won't do it. I said, why don't you because you just get too emotional? And I'm like, okay, yeah, you know what, you're right.

To All The Girls (1:41:51)

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, I agree. I think, um, I had a, sixth form teacher was saying how, you know, it's a thing where...

you have mental boxes and it's like you would put your emotions in a box like you place it and it's like okay well i'm gonna like shut this box for now focus on this and then like maybe later when i go back home then i can unpack this box and deal with it you know what i mean and i think it's like it's a thing where you still want the passion to show through but you don't want the emotions to get in the way of like the message or what is that you're trying to deliver

Sharon (1:42:17)

Mm.

yeah yeah yeah

But absolutely, yeah, yeah,

yeah. Because then words can get lost and things can get lost and then it then becomes unstructured in my head. Because then it's like, know what I want to say. And whereas I had structure, the structure is gone because the emotion is taken over and it's now...

To All The Girls (1:42:40)

Yeah, I think it's that.

Mm.

Sharon (1:43:01)

not structured and it doesn't sound straight or it doesn't sound right but I know in my head it does but I don't think you know what it sounds like because I've added the emotion to it and it's just not so yeah that's that's sort of even now see I'm sitting there thinking you're rambling woman shut up

To All The Girls (1:43:08)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No,

I understand. I, but I get it because even when I'm recording episodes, sometimes I think I'm just saying words. Like I'm just like, ⁓ and even when it comes to editing, it's so daunting for me because I'm just like, Fatima, you sound so inarticulate here. Why did you say this word? This is not even a real word. Like it's just like.

Sharon (1:43:39)

But then it's a podcast,

so it's meant to be kind of, so isn't it chilled, laid back, no stress?

To All The Girls (1:43:45)

Yeah, yeah, I guess but because

people are hearing it is like again, it just goes back to controlling how I want people to see me or Yeah, and stuff. But anyway, anyway now it's your turn So what situation would you like to leave for the next guess and then like end it by asking? Okay, what would you do? Yeah

Sharon (1:43:53)

Yeah,

my god what situation?

So the previous guest asked if I was to address... ⁓

To All The Girls (1:44:15)

If, yeah, so your previous guest asked you about a presentation and how you would deal with it if you was anxious and then this is for your next guest, the next guest asking what they would do so you would give a situation, for example something like you've been feeling stuck in a job ⁓ that doesn't align with you anymore but you're scared of the uncertainty of leaving and then you say what would you do and then our next guest would respond to that.

Sharon (1:44:43)

okay, well maybe there's a colleague at work who does things that really irritate you or says things in a way that really irritate you.

So a colleague at work that maybe speaks to you in a certain way that you don't like, how would you address that? Yeah, yeah. Like Mr. Bansal. Just tell him thank you.

To All The Girls (1:44:57)

Okay.

Yeah, what would you do basically? Okay, perfect. Can't wait to see. You know what? I'm, you

know what? For your sake, I'm not gonna keep his name in it because I don't want you to go to work,

or what not. ⁓ Yeah, honestly, no, I've loved it too. You see my thing is, I'm so bad because I will make a plan of ideas of things that I want to talk about. But obviously I just let the conversation flow and time just goes and I'm just like, my gosh.

Sharon (1:45:23)

Yeah, probably, probably. But yeah, thank you. But no, this is lovely.

Right,

To All The Girls (1:45:47)

I was gonna say, when did you first realise about the concept of boundaries and stuff like that? And the reason I'm asking you is because that is how, I see you, when I saw you in school, I saw you as someone who was confident in themselves and was able to kind of set boundaries and you very much moved through, I'm someone who I'm sure of myself. Not to say that you're someone who I like.

adults at end of the day sometimes we don't life happens whatever cool but it was like you just move through like okay I'm confident and I'm grounded to an extent and I just feel like for me I saw you as someone who was able to set boundaries and hold boundaries and like so yeah that's why I just want to know when did you first realize you needed them and how do you hold them without feeling like you're being too much

Sharon (1:46:19)

Mm-hmm.

That was difficult. mean, with students it's easy because students like boundaries. Firm but fair. And I will just make it clear. I'm very flexible. But don't cross the line. You know, I will take so much. I'm happy to deal with so much. But you need to remember, you're the student, I'm the teacher. So that was kind of a boundary. In terms of work, that's a tough one because...

To All The Girls (1:46:46)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sharon (1:47:12)

there was always, like you say, I'm not an argumentative person, but when it came to colleagues, I kind of, I chose not to push ⁓ and not to cross the line. I think I would always keep myself safe to keep myself out of trouble, I guess.

To All The Girls (1:47:38)

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:47:39)

But then there were times when if I felt something needed to be said, I just had to be clear about what it was and how I said it and how I put it across. And then sometimes I talked to other people about things. So in terms of boundaries and where rather than going, pulling the China shop and going all in, I would find people that I could talk to about stuff and bounce stuff off of.

To All The Girls (1:47:48)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:48:05)

before I presented or went in with anything that I needed to discuss with anyone else. I don't know if that makes sense. But it's interesting what you said about being grounded.

To All The Girls (1:48:11)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:48:22)

I just think I never wanted people to just trample on me. ⁓ And you kind of have broad shoulders. And it's just letting people not know literally that, know what, I'm not going to take any of your nonsense and you're not going to treat me like rubbish. But then I also think that that's...

To All The Girls (1:48:28)

Yeah.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Sharon (1:48:52)

what people saw but they didn't know. They just assumed. So a lot of people, because of maybe how I was and maybe sometimes how I spoke, that's what people assumed but they were never quite 100%. Because like I said, I wear my heart on my sleeve and I'm a pretty sensitive person.

To All The Girls (1:48:56)

Yeah. ⁓

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:49:18)

But some people sort of see me as, and you know, when I raise my voice with the children and stuff, some people will suddenly sort of see me as angry and aggressive and deserter, but no, I'm not. lovely people, really.

To All The Girls (1:49:25)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's

the thing, because I remember, even in year 7, I was so scared of you. I was like, oh my gosh, like, Ms. Dennis, like, you know, it was just like, I just thought there was no way of, like, getting to know you or something. I just thought, yeah, my chance is done, she hates us. PE class is crap, like, ugh, it's over. And then, like, as I actually got to know you...

Sharon (1:49:50)

Hahaha!

To All The Girls (1:50:00)

And it's like so sweet. And I would just wish that other people got to experience or at least allow themselves to experience the Ms. Dennison eye.

Sharon (1:50:07)

No, what they do is their

older siblings go home and they tell them that I'm the bad guy and so when they come to school they already have that perception. So that's what I have to deal with and it's fine.

To All The Girls (1:50:18)

Yeah. Yeah.

But you know what it is? I just think, I don't... It's hard to explain because it's like, I think you are, like, it's like you said you're firm but you're also such a, like, you're such a, like a sweetheart, like, because I know if I had you as a head of year...

Sharon (1:50:38)

Thanks.

To All The Girls (1:50:42)

I would still be scared of you to an extent because even now sometimes I'm like look, Ms. Dennis yeah I'm not gonna lie behave yourself like I'm not even don't even play because like I remember when I would walk past your year group hours and everyone is standing up I'm like my god yeah but you loved your year group though that was the thing

Sharon (1:50:49)

Hahaha

I just have high expectations of everybody, regardless, and I believe that... But I do, and I do.

To All The Girls (1:51:12)

That was the thing, like you was harsh on them but it wasn't like a I hate you harsh, it was like a you know, like how a mother would discipline their child and teach them right from wrong but from the outside people just didn't know that, you know?

Sharon (1:51:21)

Yeah?

No, and that's fine, you know, because

like you say, eventually they kind of get to understand. And sometimes it's a case of they have to go through that in order for them to kind of come out the other side and go, well, okay, you know what, yeah, I kind of get where she was going with all that now, it makes sense. And even now, I know some of my year seven boys are like, ⁓ that Miss Dennis, she's so extra. And I just have to look at them and I have to go, yeah, okay, know, wait till you get in year 11 and you're gonna love me.

To All The Girls (1:51:44)

Yeah, yeah,

Yeah,

that's literally what happens. The same thing even happened with my mum. I look at Raka when I was a child and I used get told off and I'm just like, ⁓ my gosh, she's so evil. And now I'm so grateful for everything.

Sharon (1:52:07)

Yeah.

But I remember my daughter as well, said, I

said to her, when you're a moody teenager, and she was like, no, I'm never gonna be a moody teenager. went, babe, you're gonna be, no, mom, I'm never gonna be a moody teenager when she was a teenager, boy. And now I say to her, do you remember, she's like, yeah, don't talk about it. I know, let's not talk about it. But no, I'm glad I had an influence on you and I'm glad I have, that's my job.

To All The Girls (1:52:15)

Yeah.

I'm

Mm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Sharon (1:52:37)

And

that's what I do and that's what brings me joy. See, look, I'm getting all emotional now. I'm taking a deep breath. I'm going to pump this. Because I do, because I love what I do when students come out the other side better people. And even if they don't come out better people, they have an understanding of why things happened the way they did and why I was the way they were. And then they can at least go, you know what, I get it.

To All The Girls (1:52:40)

Mm. No.

Sharon (1:53:04)

And that's one of the biggest joys for me of being a person in education.

To All The Girls (1:53:11)

Yeah, 100%. And I hope that, I mean, I don't know if people from Littleford would listen, but I just hope that if they do, they allow themselves to get to know you more. Because I'm not in the school and I think when I built a rapport with you, was in year 11, so it was really like, it was towards the end of my time. But if I was there, I would definitely be like telling all the kids like, no, you need to get to know Ms. Dennis for yourself because like...

the way you might think she is, she's not actually like, she's not like that, do you know what I mean? Like, I wish I was there, hopefully people will hear this and kind of like, okay, you know what, I'm gonna...

Sharon (1:53:46)

Hmm.

Yeah, where

do you put this in terms of what platform?

To All The Girls (1:53:55)

It's on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Music, Amazon, it's on everything. Yeah. 100%.

Sharon (1:53:58)

Cool.

Okay, I need to download and listen then. Actually, you know what,

it might be a thing for me to try and get a little girls group. How long are the sessions? How long are the podcasts?

To All The Girls (1:54:13)

How long are the, what do mean?

Sharon (1:54:17)

because we've been talking for hours.

To All The Girls (1:54:18)

Yeah, we've talking for a long time. So the other ones, the old ones were probably about like 40, 30 minutes, but with this new season and this new style, most of them are like, when I edit it down, it's usually about an hour and a half. This one's probably gonna be an hour and 40 or an hour and also.

Sharon (1:54:25)

Okay.

Okay, because what would be

nice is if I can maybe get a group of girls and maybe lunchtimes we could start listening and then make it and every lunchtime just sort of have a listen to just some of the stuff that goes on because I think it might be nice for some of the girls to do that. That would be nice. I'll try and do that. No, that's fine. Absolutely fine. I'm going to share this now. I know everybody.

To All The Girls (1:54:42)

We're sending you all the love from us.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would love that. Thank you, man. Thank you.

⁓ thank you thank you ⁓ I love you guys

so much honestly like my sister

Sharon (1:55:03)

Who's that in the background?

Mind your business.

To All The Girls (1:55:09)

She's in my room! I came in her room for

a few days, yeah. No, thank you, Miss. Thank you, honestly. ⁓ Just one last thing before we wrap up. I'd for my guests to leave the girls with one message. So today, if you could leave one message to all the girls out there, what would that message be?

Sharon (1:55:15)

Okay yeah, no it's been great. I've really enjoyed it. You're very welcome.

No problem.

Be yourself. Yeah, be yourself. Learn to be yourself, learn to love you. You are important, you are beautiful, you are an amazing individual, you are loved, you are blessed. And there are people out there who love you for who you are and not who you think you should be.

To All The Girls (1:55:44)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I love that. Yeah, that was beautiful. I think I love Gozlem to hear that. ⁓

Sharon (1:56:05)

The end.

No, you're welcome.

But

also just quickly, I've put my number correctly in the email. Yeah, so please drop me a WhatsApp and we'll keep in touch.

To All The Girls (1:56:19)

in the email, yeah.

Yeah, 100%. Thank you so much, Amin. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm gonna end the recording. So thanks guys for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye.

Sharon (1:56:28)

That's okay.