The BRRRR Investor Podcast
The BRRRR Investor Podcast is a dynamic resource for aspiring and seasoned real estate investors, focusing on the Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat strategy to build generational wealth. It offers expert insights, practical advice, and real-world examples to guide listeners through every step of successful real estate investing.
The BRRRR Investor Podcast
Real Estate and Mediation: Insights on Conflict Resolution
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Welcome back to The BRRRR Investor Podcast! In this episode, we delve into the transformative power of mediation with guests John and Susie Jackson. Explore how their background in education has seamlessly transitioned into mediation and the benefits it holds across various industries.
- Discover Jon and Susy Jackson’s journey from educators to mediators and how 17 years with at-risk youth shaped their new career.
- Understand the fundamental principles of mediation and its application in fields like real estate and investment.
- Learn how mediation provides a confidential, cost-effective alternative to litigation while preserving crucial relationships.
- Uncover the potential impact of conflicts on personal and professional relationships without effective mediation.
- Gain insights into the advantages of mediation clauses in contracts and how they can expedite dispute resolutions.
Don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment with your questions or topics you'd like us to cover next!
Thank you SO much for stopping by! I appreciate you!
💰Subscribe to my YouTube channel: alexnahleonvideo.com
Check out our next Real Estate event here - https://shorturl.at/jEO46
Grab your FREE SOP for analyzing deals here: SOP
Welcome back to the BRRRR Investor podcast where our mission is to empower aspiring real estate investors in their journey towards building generational wealth.
Today we're joined with some awesome guests, Jon and Susy Jackson. Jon and Susy both have an extensive background, 17 years in education, working with at risk youth. They also both served as high school coaches for a decade, working with with both boys and girls sports. And now they're pursuing this awesome journey in mediation. John and Susie, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Thank you so much for having us. It's an honor to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Appreciate it.
Could you guys please elaborate a little bit about your journey at education and as high school coaches and then let us know how that transitioned into mediation.
Sure. So both of us got our start in special education around the early 2000s with moderate severe special needs kids. And then from there we both transitioned to a general ed high school that also served special special needs kids. And then, you know, working at a smaller school, you find yourself being the jack of all trades and wearing many hats. So, you know, as time went on, we both found ourselves coaching as well. So that coaching became full time multiple sports. And all the while, this is at a high school that, like you said before, serves at risk youth. And in the name, we had military. So just by that nature, you had parents who had challenging kids who they would send them to us in hopes that we would help them and turn them around. So we served a lot of kids who had a lot of issues at homes. We had kids who were sometimes homeless. We had kids that we served who were dealing with addiction, all kinds of stuff. So, you know, we're really well versed in, in just conflict and adversity. So that's kind of what we were forged in. And then from there we pivoted into this, this amazing career in mediation and found that when we were learning about it, all the skills that we had learned and cultivated over 17 years, 100% just transferred over. So it was just a matter of learning, you know, the, the rules and the do's and the don'ts and the particular, you know, skills that it would take to mediate. But we were able to learn that and pick it up so much faster. Because of our background, we had a.
Pretty good foundation, you know, I mean, working with the kids, a lot of it had to do with needing to have empathy. We found that a lot of them, you know, as long as you had a rapport and you really listened to what they had to say, then they Would go ahead and do what they needed to do to be successful and kind of, you know, come out on top and winning. But a lot of the times we found that because of the behaviors, sometimes they came up, like, almost against the wall when they were talking to adults or when they're talking to the people in their lives. Because a lot of the times people just saw the problem and didn't see them and didn't take the time to really listen to what was underneath all of that. And that kind of foundation also helped us very, very much once we found mediation and what that was about.
This is awesome. The word that I heard repeated multiple times and I think is the most important thing is listen, right?
Yeah.
People tend to not listen very well, especially for to youth. You know, they don't listen. They judge them. Oh, you're just a problematic job. So this is, you know, this is something very, very dear to me as far as working with Mute. And I appreciate, you know, the service that you guys have provided. You know, my family comes from an extensive background in education. I've shared that with you guys. You know, my sister is a principal. She's been doing it for 20 plus years, maybe 25 years. My brother is in education. I have cousins and family. And, you know, I feel I'm in that realm as well, in a different way. Right. You know, from, you know, my previous industry that I come from, I always, you know, coached and mentored my, you know, my team. And now, as you know, having a real estate team and an investment team, I also approach it the same way because it's all about listening, understanding people's behaviors. Everybody's different. Everybody, you know, takes things on differently. So it's. It's awesome. And now also, I do dedicate and commit the time working with the youth as far as that. I could volunteer soccer coach. So I love it. And I know it takes a specific type of person. So I appreciate you guys doing that.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Thank you so much. You hit it on the head.
It's all about listening. Not listening to respond, but listening to understand.
Yep.
Yeah.
So let's dive deep into mediation. This is something that, you know, many of our listeners may. May have heard of in one way or the other, but they. They don't know how that can relate to business, how that can relate to real estate, to investing, et cetera. So, you know, can you guys, you know, explain what is mediation and what do you guys do when it comes to that?
Sure. So mediation is what's considered a type of alternative dispute resolution. Resolution. Ok, so it's not a cure all and in lieu of all litigation, but it's, it's like, it's like I said, it's, it's an alternative. So it's where a neutral third party helps two disputing parties reach a resolution. Right. And so that can take on many different forms, whether that be with two people who are entering in a divorce, a workplace dispute. The applications are endless.
So it sounds like it applies to many industries.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it could definitely apply to many different industries. I think that a lot of people are more familiar with it. In the divorce realm. We hear a little bit more about divorce mediation, but in reality, it's something that could apply to, like you said, a whole scope of industries. I mean, it could, like John already mentioned, it can go from, you know, just workplace disputes to landlord tenant disputes, to inheritance disputes, to even within families sometimes, you know, parents and their teenage kids need to have a deviation so that they can come to an agreement and an understanding of what's really going on, you know, so it does apply to many, many different circumstances, for sure.
So you're telling me there's that many conflicts out there? Right. This is awesome. Kudos to you guys. So, uh, what can you share with us a little bit about the benefits of mediation?
Oh, we don't. We could devote an entire podcast just to the benefits. Well, just to put that out there. So I got my little list here, so I don't, you know, get out of sorts here. So the first big benefit we would classify as the big three.
Okay.
And so the big three is that you avoid the courts and lawyers now if it's, if it's appropriate, you save time and money. So kind of lump those two together and it's 100% confidential. Okay. So that confidence is everything. Right. Because if we're in a mediation and Susan's a mediator, anything that is divulged inside of that mediation stays there. And then neither of us can then come back later and use that information against each other in court. And it just, it's, it's not going to be a matter of public record. So you can imagine different entities, corporations who want to keep their business out of public records. You know, just, there's so many benefits to that. And then with the time and the money, you know, obviously ties to you avoiding having to hire a lawyer. You know, I had a friend who worked as a courier for years, and he would ride us by downtown LA and transport legal documents from this law office to that courthouse and vice versa. And he'd always tell me, john, if you can avoid it, never go to court. Because when you go to court, the only people that win are the lawyers, right? So if, again, if it's. If it's appropriate, why not use mediation as a way to solve your dispute and you don't have to take it to court and drag it out. You know, on top of all of the stress that comes with whatever dispute you're in, think about the added stress of having to hire a lawyer and move that whole process, right? So everything that comes with that second thing, the entire process is voluntary from start to finish, so you're not being forced to go to mediation. So with a lot of disputes now, the courts will have you try mediation before you go through the litigation process. But it's still not mandatory. So at any point, if you feel as though it's not working or it's not right for you, you can say, I don't want to do it. Right? But a good mediator will do a good job of reminding you of that and prompting you to, you know, keep the lines of communication open so that if you feel like you want to withdraw, then they can have a side conversation with you and talk to you about why it is that you might not want to be there. But with that voluntary nature, you know, think of how much more likely you're. You're going to not only reach a resolution, but see it through and continue to go through with it because you wanted to be there, right? You weren't forced to be there. And then also the next benefit is that the parties have the power. You have the decision making, you have authorship. So what did you. You have a word that you use.
It's a.
It's a phrase. Think about architects.
Oh, yeah, you become the architect of, of change, basically, right? You're changing what could be a conflict into what could turn to be a very workable relationship, right? So technically, you have two people that have the authority, the authorship, to have a resolution. And what we find is that when two people are empowered to create a resolution, they are then more likely to follow through with that resolution as opposed to having a solution. Just had it here. This is how you do that, how you're going to do it. Then people are like, oh, wow, I don't know about everybody else but me. When I'm told to do something, sometimes it takes me a minute to actually do it because I don't really want to be told to do something. So we find that when people are empowered to do it, themselves to come up with a resolution themselves that they are more likely to follow through with that as well.
Right. Because we're, you know, we're facilitating that agreement. We're not there to decide who's right or who's wrong. We're not there to hand out a judgment. You're just strictly that neutral third party to facilitate whatever that agreement is. And it's also going to address any power imbalances. So if you have something in the workplace and it's between an employee and a supervisor, there's a clear power imbalance there. So that gets addressed. And it's always in the forefront of everyone's minds. And so whenever it comes up, then there's a timeout and that's also addressed. So there's an even playing field throughout the process so that each party has that equal saying in what happens. Right. The next thing. Right. So all of those things equal a win, win resolution. Right. So it's not one person wins at the expense of the other. It's both people are coming together to decide what outcome is going to work best for both of them. So.
And the key word here is empower. Empowering the part in Law Abstract.
Absolutely. So in order for that win, win to happen, obviously the next big thing is that you've got to foster that empathy and that understanding. Because if you are just negotiating in the beginning and you have an address to what really matters, what really got you there, and it's just, what do you want? What do you want? Then, you know, the end result is just going to be filled with all of that stuff that got you there, and it's probably not going to be workable, which brings to the next thing, which is it's going to bring out that workability. Everything is seen in that lens of workability because that's how you're going to have those results that last. You know, going back to the empathy. Just for anybody who doesn't see the value in empathy and understanding and might see it as a weakness, I would say if you thought that way, then why is storytelling so powerful? Because storytelling involves nothing but empathy and understanding. Right. We watch a show or movie and we have the characters that we know and love, and then we have those characters that we can't stand or are the black sheeps or the villains, and then we have those scenes or those episodes where they have the origin story and you go, oh my God, that's why they're like that. Right? That's empathy, that's understanding. And by the end of it Best case scenario, we're now rooting for that character. Worst case, you at least understand where they're coming from. Right. What got them there. And I think that that stops a lot of people in engaging in any sort of empathy exercise is that they think that understanding someone means that they're going to align with them.
Exactly. And you know what I've seen with empathy, because I feel it's definitely overlooked and people are afraid of being empathetic and they confuse it with being sympathetic. So, I mean, yeah, you're. You can understand the person, but you don't have to agree with the person.
That part.
Yep. Absolutely.
Yep. To the two things can exist at the same time, you know, And I think that that's. That's a big roadblock. That and just laziness. It's just easier for our brains to just judge. People categorize, and they just move on, which I understand. But the absence of empathy makes it easy for us to strip people of their humanity. And that's, that's how you train soldiers to do what they need to do. Right. But we've seen all of the negative effects of the absence of it. So this flips it on its head. And the mediator is going to do a good job of having you see things from their perspective. And then vice versa, you're going to be heard so that you can be free of all that stuff. Right. And ensure that that person hears your side of things, too. And then once that understanding is there, then you can have those powerful conversations about what's going to make a difference for the both of you. Because again, this is all about relationships that are in distress, that need to continue, or in some cases, it's a relationship that's going to end. But you got to get some things out of the way. And if not, you might want to go work. So that's, that's what's happening there. The next benefit we have is that mediation, if done well, is going to. Not only we've talked about this, it's going to address the logistical concerns around whatever it is that your conflict is. And it's also going to address the emotional stuff where the ego has got bruised and everything. So that again, you have that powerful result for a fraction of the cost that you would if you went to. To court. Right. And then it all ties into relationships. Because me and we're talking to real estate agents here, right. Like, because they're in the relationships business if you don't. Me, if I'm wrong. Right. So you get to preserve Relationships, maintain relationships, and then in the base best case, you're going to transform these relationships powerfully, you know, so that's, that's what I got. I don't know if there's anything that I missed that you can think of.
I mean, I think you got most of everything on the head. I think that was very, very well said. Yeah. I was just gonna go back to the fact that I think in society nowadays, we're just so used to hearing that it has to be either a win, lose or a lose, lose situation. You know what I mean? Like, in society, we've just been trained that that's just the case. Because if I lose, then that means you win, but if I win, that means you lose. Or best case scenario, it's going to be a lose, lose and none of us come out happy. Right?
Yeah.
But like, we're trying to see if we can change people's perspective on that a little bit because it is possible for us to both get what we need out of the dispute, out of a resolution. Right. It is possible for people to have a win, win solution. And I think that that's just kind of been lost in our society a lot. And I think that that's something that we kind of need to get back to. Just going back to the fact that we all just deal in relationships. We look at it. I mean, our lives are moments in which we're having relationships with other people.
Yeah.
So I think that at the beginning and end of it, that's the most important thing is to remember that we are working with other human beings and that. That it's, you know, at the base of everything and that it's important to be able to treat each other with humanity, with respect and with empathy so that we can get to those powerful, transformed relationships or just resolutions.
So now empathy is the third big word here. So we've gone through listen, empower and empathy. And, you know, one, I'm a big believer of empathy, tactical empathy. I feel that's crucial in my industry, you know, to be able to negotiate, to be able to get through transaction, to be able to work with sellers, buyers, other agents, other investors, you know, your contractors and so forth. So I truly believe empathy is extremely, extremely important, at least in our industry. You know, the podcast is around real estate. It's, you know, geared for real estate, real estate investors. So with that said, can you share with me a little bit about how does mediation benefit a Realtor or an investor?
Yeah, sure. So I want to, you know, definitely want to answer it. I'm going to give you like, in like a broad stroking answer, but then I also want to ask you questions and see if we can generate, you know, some more possibilities for realtors and investors. So, you know, for, for agents, you know, obviously, like, what is the percentage that you would say of people who would come to a realtor as a result of a divorce, a pending divorce. Why would, you know, people put their houses on the market? Does that happen a lot for, for agents?
It definitely does. There's a lot of situations that people have conflicts upon themselves, whether it's, you know, a divorce, you know, or other partners. Business partners, you know.
Right.
Or family members.
Right, right.
Like, especially in probate or trust sale, you know, the heirs are, you know, some have never been around and, you know, they have a piece of, you know, the, the property and they're not agreeing on some terms and so forth. So that's just, you know, the few things that I can think of.
Right.
But yeah, divorce is definitely big. Also on the investment side of it, or even going back to like from a real, on a realtor side, like wearing my realtor hat, commission disputes, you know, misunderstanding of miscommunication amongst, you know, either agent to agent, agent to client, buyer or seller, not putting things in writing and say, oh, I promised you this or you didn't, so forth, you know, so those are always, you know, big fittings. Setting yourself up for disputes. As far as, you know, the investment side, what I can imagine I would see is, you know, again, disputes within a transaction, disputes with contractors, disputes with vendors. Again, I'm sure there's a lot more, but does that kind of.
No, absolutely. I think just about everything that you just lined out is something that's appropriate for mediation. You know, I know that going back to the relationships part of it, these people are reaching out to their realtors and talking about their problems. So how many Realtors are now having to use creative problem solving skills to help their clients through whatever their issues are? What would it mean for their business to be able to say, hey, I think I have someone perfect for you. And then you refer them to us. We go through our free consultation to see if everything is great. Right. If it's appropriate. And then from there, now you have someone who is able to solve their problems faster and cheaper. And now that strengthens their relationships over there. And then it also strengthens your relationship with your client because you were the one that gave them access to that. Right. And then on the investor side, I could definitely speak to, you know, what I little bit that I know about, like say wholesalers, you know, their whole bread and butter is finding inventory as a result of motivated sellers. Right. And that's all about situations. Right. And not all of them will apply, but certainly how much time are wholesalers spending solving those kinds of problems? Again, what would that mean to have someone like us in their back pocket, say, hey, I've got someone that can help you with this thing. Right. And even within disputes, there could be components of it that are legal matters that are still appropriate for court. But then there's also little things there, like little disputes that, okay, we can settle this outside of court and come mediate it so you can at least save a little bit of headache. Right. So there's a million applications, you know.
I was going to say, and for investors, there is precedent for having a mediation clause even in contracts. So when things do come up, because obviously, you know, we're not, you know, an oracle that can see into the future and decide or see exactly what's going to come up, but inevitably things come up, as you just said. So that's something, that's a clause that could be put into contracts, let the sellers or the other party know. And when something does come up now there is a solution or there is an avenue to a solution that's a lot more fast or that's quicker than going to court or dealing with lawyers or having to extend a process and maybe even putting a pin in a deal for an extended period of time because of said dispute. Right. So it would just make it so much faster and so much easier for everybody involved. And like John said, it would also be a good way to kind of strengthen those relationships between investors and clients, realtors and clients, because, well, now it's like you've also helped them transform their life in a meaningful way.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right as far as, you know, having that in the contracts because it does exist in the purchase agreements and, you know, documents with buyers or documents with sellers. If a dispute comes up, the goal is to mediate it before it, you know, gets, gets into the courts or get attorneys involved and so forth. Because that tends to be, like you mentioned, it's the ideal conflict resolution approach to get a resolution and to avoid, you know, just going to paying attorneys for their time. So. So that's a great point that you bring up. Yeah, well, that's cool. So can you give us, I mean, any examples or situations that are challenging to mediate or cannot be mediated perhaps?
Sure. So there's A lot of, like, just legal matters that are not appropriate for me for mediation, but any time that someone's broken the law or certain rules have been broken, because that could be a gray area that wouldn't be appropriate for mediation. But mediation, if you just boil it down, it's. It's when relationships are at stake or involved, and it's a dispute between two people and you need to preserve some sort of relationship, or there's a relationship that is ending, maybe somebody was terminated and there's a dispute behind whatever the terms are surrounding the termination, whenever it is, then a mediator can come in and facilitate that negotiation so that, you know, the person who was terminated doesn't then take the company to, you know, litigation, whatever it is. So that's usually what it is. Another big one is domestic violence. If somebody's going through a divorce and there's domestic violence anywhere in there, any kind of abuse, then mediators will generally stay away from that because the implications, you know, spread. So you don't want to ask a long question as a mediator, you know, within the back of your mind, the front of your mind, you're saying, okay, well, what. How is this person going to respond now? And then, the same thing for the abused party. They can't speak freely. Because mediation is that ultimate safe space because of the confidentiality, because everything. You're able to speak freely and engage in good faith. Right? So you can't do that if you're worried about what that other person is going to do to you if they don't like the way that you spoke to them, if they don't like what you said, whatever it is, you outed them. So safety concerns are one of the top priorities, if not the top priorities, when we're consulting with potential clients.
So to summarize it, some situations that might not be appropriate for mediation would be anything that has a legal matter to it. So any broken laws, like if it was a workplace dispute, like if there is something that's already under investigation, if there is any history of violence, abuse, or any type of safety issues or concerns, those are things that we would take into consideration into figuring out whether or not it is appropriate or whatever the matter is, if it's appropriate for mediation. Because at the end of the day, we're not here to get legal advice. We're not here as lawyers or anything like that. We're here to facilitate a conversation for a dispute to be resolved.
What are possible effects of people not choosing mediation?
Oh, well, I mean, it's. You just Take everything that we said and flip it on its head. I mean, it's more of the same. You know, people just as a lack of not knowing will just go straight to litigation and ruin relationships, most people are not present to the possibility of not looking the other person in the eye ever again, depending on who that is. If you lawyer up and you do get out, because some of those situations get really nasty, right? So you have to be prepared for that possibility. Whereas here you have more options, you have more flexibility. So, you know, there's all the implications that come with the actual conflict at hand. What is the actual conflict and how is it now impacting your life? It can impact your relationships with your spouse, your kids at work, the person that you're driving next to, all of those things, and it can be an effect of your conflict as a result. And so without that peace, without being able to speak your mind and be heard again, what's the impact of that? It's everlasting.
And, I mean, you mentioned situations where it might be inheritance.
Right.
Disputes. I mean, I have three brothers, and I can't imagine ever having a situation where we wouldn't be able to speak to one another based off of something like inheritance. You know, I mean, there's so many families that have become broken, that have become estranged because of disputes like these. And, I mean, I get it. Family has baggage, right? And a lot of times we have to get all of that baggage cleared so that we can have a resolution if people decide not to go through or people decide on not doing mediation and going the litigation route and that that relationship is shot. Right. That those are siblings that might never, ever see or speak to each other ever again. And, I mean, I don't know about you, but that's just not the world I like to think about living in. You know what I mean? I think that it's very important to keep those types of relationships intact and that, I mean, it's just a small example of what could happen. Someone would decide not to.
Yeah, and, you know, that's one main topic, like, you know, heirs and, you know, issues among siblings. It's something unfortunately. You know, growing up, I heard a lot of stories. I witnessed a lot of stories. You know, I have siblings, and we tend to resolve issues very well. You know, our parents are. You know, my mom passed away many years ago. My dad is getting older. We're all getting older. You know, parents get older. And, you know, I've unfortunately seen, you know, very siblings that are very, very close to each other that Love each other. When the parents pass away, things change.
It gets ugly.
Yes. And you know, there's some that I know until today that they really don't talk to each other or, you know, some talk to each other, but it's not the same. You can feel the friction. So it's very unfortunate. Now it dawned on me like, you know, yes, it's crucial, like to get mediation involved. It's almost like, you know, it's therapy.
Yeah, a little bit.
You know, to a certain extent it.
Can be a way.
Yeah.
And then I'm also thinking about, you know, going back to like, divorce. It's real easy to get caught in that battle with your soon to be ex. And if their kids involved, it's real easy to forget what happens with them.
Right.
And so for us, unfortunately, we've seen it time and time again on the educational side, what the impact is for the kids and the parents may not even be aware of that. And we, we've seen the blowback from that. And so I would urge any, anybody who's going through a divorce and they have kids is to remember that your kids are watching you. Whether you realize it, whether you don't, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, they're watching you. And you're modeling for them how to treat their significant others in the future. And you're modeling for them what kind of treatment is acceptable for them. Right. And it's either that or they'll realize what you do is wrong and then they'll end up resenting you for it. Right. And, you know, what kind of relationship does every parent want to have with their adult kid? That's a question that you have to ask yourself. And it might sound obvious, but how often are you able to really move yourself from the situation or just presence yourself and ask yourself that question, you know, pull yourself out of that conflict and say, okay, is my kid gonna resent me? You know, ten years down the line, five minutes from now, like, what's that going to look like? What kind of relationship do I want to have with them? And mediation can help salvage that. Right. So it's in the thinking about people not knowing about mediation is, is a sad thought. I, I'm kind of sad that I didn't know about it for, for so long because it's. The applications are endless and if you get really creative with it, it doesn't just extend to just mediation. You can take the skills and transfer it to a million different applications.
And awareness is, it's crucial to like, you brought up you know, being aware, do you as a parent, do you want your kids to resent you or not? And you know, like you just mentioned this last point right now too. It kind of ties everything together, your journey together as educators, working with, you know, at risk youth and, you know, high school coaches and now mediators that, you know, portrays your passion to caring for others and wanting to help others and, you know, creating situation, bettering situation situations. So it's awesome what you guys do and I love it. So with that said, and you've answered it somewhat like, you know, why do you think it's so important to spread the word, like to bring awareness to mediation?
Right. So, yeah, like you said it, you know, we've pretty much summed everything up and yeah, just really that everything. Empathy, you get to listen big. A good mediator is going to teach people some of those skills that will help them in the future when future conflicts come up, even if it's things to help them to prevent being in a conflict. Because most conflicts are a result of some sort of communication piece that's messed up or it's a lack of communication or language barrier, whatever it is. So, you know, you're teaching people to slow down and listen big. You're teaching people how to be empathetic and to understand the person that's across from them and to separate the person from the problem. And you get to preserve those relationships. And we're amongst the people that will give people access to that. So it's like, we feel like we have that responsibility to spread that word because it will just have that ripple effect. And then, you know, I'm not trying to sing Kumbaya together, but it does. Like, we've seen enough of the negative. We've seen enough of people who are just out for themselves and don't care. And it just strains things. And this is a way of making things better.
Yeah, I was going to say. And overall, I think that the biggest reason why we need to spread the word about mediation is because it's a better way. It's a better way than most people have been doing it. Right? Most people. I'm going to sue this person, I'm going to sue that person. We're going to go into litigation and that's how we've been trained to think about dispute and dispute resolution. But if there's a better way, then why not? There's a way that's going to be faster, that's going to save you money, and overall is going to preserve the relationships that you, you probably cared about at the beginning at some point or still care about, then why not? You know, I mean, there's too many people that suffer at the hands of disputes. Like we've covered a little bit of. Mostly it's relationships and families, but there's also, you know, the people that have broke bridges because of dispute in. In a workplace. Right. Or in a professional matter. So if we can preserve that, if we can help people do things better, then that's why we're here. We want to help people realize that there's a better way to. To do it yourself.
Disputes. Well said. And when we first met, we met at one of our events that we host, the Real Estate Talk event, specifically the one in Studio City. I know you guys have been to both the. The one we host in Pasadena and Studio City, and we appreciate you guys doing that. Once, you know, the first time we met and you guys shared with me about what you do, I was like, I need to get you guys on the podcast, you know, because I again, we got to bring awareness to this topic. You know, with mediation, people know, but they don't know how it exists, where it exists. How can people, you know, obtain mediation.
Right.
That it's an alternative to something that could be more costly and not necessarily solve the problem. So I do appreciate you guys coming out here and the goal of having you on again is to spread the word and hopefully someone listening knows somebody that may need your services and connect with you. So with that said, how can someone reach you, contact you, or learn more about your services?
Sure. So for now, you can reach us on Instagram.
Yeah. So my handle is underscore. Where it's at. Underscore. Susie J. Underscore. So it's spelled S U S buy.
S U S Y. Okay.
And I'm John the mediator on Instagram. No underscores, no spaces, just John the mediator.
Okay.
So you can reach out to us and tell us what's going on versus be there to talk. We're here to help people out.
Perfect. And then we'll add their Instagram handles as well in the comments section below. Please reach out to them if you have any question concern before a conflict comes up. But if a conflict comes up or you know, someone that may need their services, please don't hesitate to reach out to them. Thank you both for coming out. I truly appreciate having this conversation. You know, I learned a lot and I'm sure our listeners also burn. So thanks for taking the time to come out today and share your. Your knowledge.
With us.
Oh, thank you for having me.
Absolutely. Again, it was an honor and we're so grateful for the opportunity to come on here and spread the word, because that's what it's all about. Thank you again so much.
Awesome. Awesome.
Thank you all for joining us on the Brrrr Investor Podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, please hit like and subscribe to our channel for more real estate insights. We love hearing from you, so please leave your thoughts, questions, or topics you'd like us to cover in the comments section below. Be sure to check out our website, theburinvestor.com and follow us on social media. Heburnvestor. Keep learning and investing and we'll see you in the next episode. I'm your host, Alex Nale.
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