Shit We Don't Talk About

Ep. 93 - Power Dynamics, Religion & The Politics of Hate - Deborah Burgess

• Mia Voss

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Deborah Burgess returns to discuss power dynamics, religion, and the politics of hate in these unprecedented times. We share insights on how hatred has been weaponized throughout history and is currently being employed in American politics to create division.

• Frederick Douglass's prescient 1865 warning about societal oppression and its consequences
• How late-stage capitalism fuels political division and prioritizes profit over people
• The concept of "otherism" and how it's used to create fear and consolidate power
• The concerning intersection of religious identity with nationalist politics
• Personal strategies for maintaining sanity and purpose in challenging times
• Finding radical joy as an act of resistance against the politics of hate
• The importance of critical thinking and creating salon-like spaces for genuine dialogue

Check out the show notes, accessibility transcript, and all guest links at shitwedonttalkaboutpodcast.com.


About Deborah Burgess:

Deborah has 21 years of university teaching experience including teaching in Beijing, China at the University of Colorado Denver's Global Campus for six years. This was a tremendous experience teaching students courses in Business and Professional Speaking, Public Speaking, and Essential Communication in a Global Society. Additionally Deborah has consulting/training experience working domestically for non-profits, federal, state and private industry in Diversity Equity and Inclusion, Gender and Communication and Appropriate Business Communication in Corporate Settings. Deborah conducted training classes at Beijing Foreign Studies University in China teaching mid-level executives of China Construction Bank and China Southern Airlines skills/tools in the American Mass Media and Communication. Her belief is: “I’m not a teacher, but an awakener.” ~ Robert Frost

Connect with Deborah:

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Mia Voss:

Hey, welcome to the latest episode of Shit. We Don't Talk About the podcast that takes on topics that need more open and honest discussion, which means some of these topics are triggering. So please take care when listening and I'll always give you a trigger warning. For instance, here's one Every episode contains swear words.

Mia Voss:

You've been warned, Make sure to check out the show notes, which include an accessibility transcript of the podcast and all of the links for our guests at shitwedonttalkaboutpodcastcom. The fabulous Deborah Burgess is back and in this episode we talk about power dynamics, religion and the politics of hate. Tune in, it gets good. Here we go and we're back, Deborah.

Deborah Burgess:

Well, we are back Indeed. Another day, another dollar right.

Mia Voss:

We have things to say.

Deborah Burgess:

Boy, do we Boy, do we Boy, do we?

Mia Voss:

Some background for people. We didn't say this in our other episodes but I met Deborah on a call here, on a group call for progressive women here in Colorado, and really just picked up on your energy right off the bat and then we mentioned the podcast. Just picked up on your energy right off the bat and then we've mentioned the podcast and so we've become pretty fun fast friends of having these really back and forth great back and forth conversations and sharing information. So that's why we just keep recording.

Deborah Burgess:

Exactly, Absolutely. It's been, it's been, it's been. I know it's like, like me, a sand, a whirlwind, but it's all like just some good chemistry. Good chemistry here, and what we're talking about. Our beliefs are the same. Yes, go on.

Mia Voss:

Yes, and I just want to make sure people go and check out in the show notes what Deborah's background is and why I'm so low grade fascinated, high grade fascinated with you and your background and the expertise that you bring from your lived experience.

Deborah Burgess:

Thank you so much. I appreciate that very much.

Mia Voss:

And, of course, thank you. And that's why I wanted to also talk with you about all these different topics, because I mean, we just spoke last week on our first two episodes and you know, then we get on the call and we're like, well, it's a different world already.

Deborah Burgess:

Oh, every day is. I mean, you know we were talking before obviously we got on with this today just how exhausting it can be and me and I kind of just decided, you know that one way I work out, mia has her things that she do to stay awake. This stuff that's going on can make you crazy and I refuse to be crazy. I just want to take care of I, take care of Debra, take care of my body, work out, you know, walk. My sisters love little bull, Jack bulldog and Jack Russell mix. That makes me happy. Every time I look at her I can feel her just getting into my brain in a very good way, you know, giving me a little bit of some relief from all of the craziness.

Mia Voss:

Yes, and I think that's that's the piece about radical joy, and that is not just a cutesy little saying, and that's not toxic positivity either. And I think people like me, being highly sensitive and you just highly intelligent like these are really can I live in a precedent at a time, because these unprecedented times are wearing me the fuck out.

Deborah Burgess:

They really are. And you know me, I love, you know I like that binder you know I like that binder yes.

Mia Voss:

Can I give?

Deborah Burgess:

you one today. You want to see if you want to do it? Okay, see, if you can. I'm going to read it and then see if you can guess who it is. I'm going to give you this person's first initial, last name. But listen, this is another one, another one from the binder. Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails and where any one class is made to feel that society is in an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, either person's, not property, will be safe. Do you know who said that? I'm gonna give you the initials f and d. First name is f, second name is d.

Mia Voss:

And I'll give you another hint it was made in the 1800s well, I was going with but franklin delano roosevelt, but that was this well they came later.

Deborah Burgess:

This was frederick douglas speech on the 21st anniversary of the emancipation in Washington DC 1865, as quoted in the book the Spirit Level why Greater Equality Makes Society Stronger by Richard Wilkinson and Katie Pickett. And Katie Pickett, richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett P-I-C-K-E-T-T. Is that 1865?

Mia Voss:

Can you believe that the Emancipation, and it's just, it's so interesting to see how, oh, history repeats itself and it's the same. It's the same pleadings and information and realities that late stage capitalism will not allow these things, does not want to allow these things to exist. It goes against the very, very grain of it. And I'm going to jump ahead for one second because the topic that we and Debra and I trade emails a lot, so we just dump on each other. You know how some people dump memes, we dump links to articles and things like that.

Mia Voss:

And it's so so, so good. So the topic we wanted to talk about was the politics of hate and how this current regime, trump I love to call him Trump because it's just, it's a combination of good and bad, exactly the trance how these weaponized our darkest instincts and it does really feel like this brewing, unfortunately, of these decades and different generations of iterations of hate. And you know, with late stage capitalism, that's the really tough thing. The Democratic side, which we've talked about in our last episode, also mean that to serve everybody goes against capitalism as well too. It's going to be really tough. I mean, I don't know if it's going to take Debra like just a complete raising R-A-Z-I-N-G or just like I think a lot of shit's going to have to get torn down and burned down.

Deborah Burgess:

I have to agree and that's funny you saying that, and I love the fact that when you were talking about you know how the whole of it. It's like if you look at a boiling water and it's bubbling in and it's just, it's just in that we're at the where it's overflowing. Now, yeah, yeah With with, with this politics and stuff like and and Donald Trump. You know, the American people, we in America I mean I didn't vote for him, but we in America don't point your finger at someone else we, the American people in this culture, has created him. He was created, he came about. There's no way Donald Trump would have been an elected president without this going. What is going on now, with hate that is going on in this culture To the boiling point.

Mia Voss:

Ridiculous. It's definitely, absolutely and it's definitely a combination of the fact that he's just when they call him Teflon Don, which is so fucking gross, Diabolical.

Deborah Burgess:

I pretty much feel like you know, at the end of the world it's going to be cockroaches. Twinkies, because those never-. Yeah, they don't ever they have a shelf life, exactly, trump's still running around.

Mia Voss:

Those are the three things. We're going to be left, we're all going to be gone. Those are the three things, but it is so, so, so true, deborah, that that does this doesn't come out of nowhere, and I I think this is the reminder for a lot of us too, when we think of uh, genocides and regimes, uh, when we think of even, um, uh, pogroms, which you know, where's the? The killing of uh Jews, like that was the? Uh, there's pogroms, genocides, there's Khmer Rouge, obviously, nazis, there's all these different things that have just been repeat, repeat, repeat, based on this weaponizing of hate, the other is making it away.

Deborah Burgess:

And it's now Mia, to me hate. It's okay to be hate, to have hate like this. I mean this is spewing from. We have a did you realize? A cabinet of people that hate to be cabinet officials on President Trump's cabinet. They are literally like you say. You might use the word cockroaches, but when you have you don't just have one, you have a whole bunch of them.

Mia Voss:

So look at this cabinet.

Deborah Burgess:

They said that if you add up and I said this before, I don't know you add up all of the income of President Trump cabinet. It's the highest ranking cabinet. They're worth about $700, $800 billion. The cabinet members on his cabinet. What does that tell you? Yeah, oh my God, it's really it's a secretariat defense that has, from what I understand, a tattoo over his chest, a racist tattoo.

Mia Voss:

Oh God, that guy, yeah, heg Seth, he really does.

Deborah Burgess:

So when we see weaponization of hate, you have so-called people of the power that be. Look at it now. I never thought I would see something like this.

Mia Voss:

I don't know how you feel. I can't. I mean but and let's ask that I'm just going to put this out to the audience as well who, like I don't know if it's every 10 to 12 hours or every day that I'll see something, or like, just looking at this, I just did the Wikipedia of Donald Trump's cabinet and I see the words of Donald Trump, january of 2025. And I just once in Donald Trump, january of 2025. And I, just once in a while, just go fuck, how did he get back in here?

Mia Voss:

And also that it took three elections that this guy has been involved in I forget about like 2020 just becomes, you know, january 6th and the whole thing, but it's like three elections. So it really is this combination though of hatred, and I keep coming back to end capitalism, because it is the bottom line, mia.

Deborah Burgess:

You hit the nail on the head, yeah. It doesn't give a fuck about anything you don't care. But money don't think he care about is money, Greed and getting and getting back at people and that just further. It would be like if you were making a hate soup. He's the master chef of it.

Mia Voss:

Yeah, he really is yeah, he's the chef connoisseur, greed otherism. I really think otherism is just a huge, huge piece of it, and I was mentioning I was out this weekend and I had on. I have this fabulous hat, I'm going to put it on.

Deborah Burgess:

Beautiful hat, that pride hat. Yeah, there you go, put this on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mia Voss:

Where it's going to be. I just, oh, it's just so fun, I, and I'm going to be so out loud and proud in this. And then I've got another one that's like a little Gilligan's hat.

Deborah Burgess:

Oh cool.

Mia Voss:

Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking and we mentioned this before we got started of the fear that we have. There is so much more fear that we just didn't have before. It is so ramped up and escalated. But I do feel like even wearing this pride hat out to an extent, much to my fiance's chagrin I'm kind of a wish, a bitch would kind of mode.

Mia Voss:

Right on. I wish somebody would say something to me, because I just am so fascinated and this is on the topic of otherism of why do you care who someone else loves, why do you care who someone else sleeps with? Fuck, whatever you want to say or what their genitalia is, it's just, it's how does that hurt you.

Deborah Burgess:

How does that hurt you?

Mia Voss:

That's not how many you act on you, yeah, but I, but that is the power of the other ism of. You know, oh, this person's going to um. You know, oh, make your children, you know.

Deborah Burgess:

Oh, my kid going to come home. The service have kids, mom and dad. It was a she, now I think I want to be a he. Come on, we know that. You know what. That's what they're thinking.

Mia Voss:

They do and.

Deborah Burgess:

I mean, even for our kids. They're getting that stuff in church.

Mia Voss:

Some of these churches too, are saying that stuff, and that's the thing. What kind of how can you be a better person to just say, well, let's talk about that, because you know gender is a construct anyway? Yes, but that fear of it, I mean, and the whole thing that they did with the whole oh, kids wanting to have litter boxes in the schools, which is not true, they even had to admit it, but it really is the otherism I think is what's feeding a lot of the hate the other, the other, this other.

Deborah Burgess:

That I mean, and you know what You're talking about this history of hate. It goes down the lineage of that Trump family.

Mia Voss:

Daddy.

Deborah Burgess:

Fred, I think that and I hadn't looked, but somebody was saying that there's actually a videotape on YouTube somewhere of Fred marching with the KKK down there in the 30s and 40s and there's concerted effort of closing down apartment buildings that had Puerto Ricans or Black and want to get rid of those people of color. This is just ingrained in this. Well, I don't want to say all of those people of color, this is just ingrained in this. Well, I don't want to say all of them, because there are some good, like the one the Dr Trump, mary Trump hates his guts. She does.

Deborah Burgess:

And how do you do your own family like this? That man stole 70, 80 million dollars of that girl and her brothers and her from the brother that died. Yeah, this is it. So you, you know, if you don't give a shit about his own family, he doesn't give a shit about the american people. This, this, this whole presidential stuff, is not about. It's getting back and showing his power and trying to transform america into an oligarchy, an authoritarian government. That's what he is trying to do pretty.

Mia Voss:

It's so much closer than the first regime, and with the otherism and the hatred piece as well, too, let's bring in racism into it of how it's also been couched, though, that white people are these traditionally kinder and not as angry and don't hate, and they've been able to listen to what you just said about his lineage right, they would get very upset Greed, you know, being prejudiced just right.

Mia Voss:

I mean, they were known that Trump's were so well known in the real estate industry in New York of being, you know, incredibly racist. So it is interesting to see how hatred has been the. I mean, what do they say? There's no, there's no other hatred like Christian love. Is that, you know, christian love? But it's the white, the white Christians too, and I think that's the unfortunate kind of perfect storm that he was able to create with this second regime, with the, with the Christians. I mean, look at what happened with the announcing you know we're dating this podcast a little bit, but announcing the Iranian the strike on Iran this weekend.

Deborah Burgess:

Exactly. They did say that it was the Christians who are kind of cheering it on like woo, like what You're a Christian, you're cheering something like that on, ando, like what You're a Christian You're cheering something like that on. And now you know what I guarantee you, mia there's probably people that Christian, the Christians, saying I can find it in the Bible for us, we need to be cheering, that's what Jesus would want, and you know, we know that it's a lie.

Deborah Burgess:

I'm not a minister, but that you know God is about love. I'm not a minister, but that you know God is about love.

Mia Voss:

There's a lot of very convenient acrobatics they do mentally to make that fit. But so the other piece, I think, with this hatred is definitely the introduction of fear. So they're, you know, they're fearful about what they've been told, which is completely not true, even according to our national security, I think even the person who's the head of the Nuclear Commission.

Deborah Burgess:

It's the NRC, nuclear Regulatory Commission, nrc, I believe.

Mia Voss:

Yep, yep, and they've even been like, where are you getting this from? But I think it's when you create this fear. And I did see somebody mention one of those old oh, what was it? The Twilight Zone? One of those old oh, what was it the Twilight Zone? One of the ones from like the fifties, when it was like the fear of all the aliens coming in, and it's just the same.

Deborah Burgess:

It's the same thing and you know, you just made me realize something about the time. They were way ahead of their time. It was a Twilight Zone where this poor girl, she was, you know, cause everybody has her, so they, they were trying to change her cause they were, she was you know, because everybody has her, so they were trying to change her because they were, she was other, she was the other and she was this beautiful woman and they took it all off.

Mia Voss:

Oh, dear God we didn't get her and they said it didn't work.

Deborah Burgess:

It didn't work, yeah they were looking, they were up, they were, she was the other. Yeah, and that made it. Even as a kid. I couldn't understand what that meant.

Mia Voss:

Do you remember that? I do, and boy that. What a great point to bring that. Bring it up with that one. They really were ahead of their time, weren't they? They were way ahead of their time.

Deborah Burgess:

Oh dear God, I remember that one lady.

Mia Voss:

Oh dear God, we done everything to make our life.

Deborah Burgess:

That's what you're talking about. You know, darn well, a person that look like me cannot be white. I'm not white. Well, yeah, there's some people try to make their skin lighter and things like that. I can't do that. It's other we are putting a mark on what is the mark. I mean, for years, they would, you know, they say, well, there's certain things in certain other religious saying that the mark was because the person was this or the person was that and this is that was other.

Mia Voss:

Yeah, yeah, what they're right, what they're they. And this is where I feel like everything has just come to a head of everything we've seen and I mentioned it earlier like all these different pieces in history that were horrible times, and I don't know what's going on, debra, but I feel like we've just got this and maybe it's the groundswell that's needed, because we just cannot continue to operate in these systems that don't. These systems don't work. And I will say when, when, before he was elected, these good friends of mine, andy and chet lions. Andy has a really great podcast called don't be caged by your age.

Mia Voss:

For a guest and I need to introduce you oh I love that and it's so good, it's all these different things but, um, you know different topics sort of which are wonderful about aging. So this woman, this lee mcgowan, is the politics girl, um, and she wrote this book last year. Return to common sense. But one thing, what was interesting, which are wonderful about aging. So this woman, this Lee McGowan, is the politics girl and she wrote this book last year. Return to Common Sense. But one thing what was interesting is I was I was visiting Andy and Chet in October, so sort of that, still that time when we thought, maybe right, we had hope.

Mia Voss:

And one thing that we did is we made this list a punch list, because you know that's what I do, I do punch lists for buildings but we made a punch list of items that we felt that even if the Harris-Walls campaign, the Harris-Walls group, had won, these were things that we knew still didn't work. So campaign finance, reversing Citizens United, talking about anti-gerrymandering law, elimination of the filibuster, redistricting, enforceable code of ethics for the Senate and Supreme Court, this was our list of green things Unbelievable, I mean wow.

Mia Voss:

And then this is what, even when we talked about with the Dems and now we see really how disappointing they've reacted afterwards too. But this is proof of that system didn't work either. But we had hope that we could say hey, I still want to show up at my town hall meetings, at my city council meetings, and say, hey, locally, here's what I can do.

Deborah Burgess:

But you know what? I'm glad you're bringing that up, mia. You know why. I just saw something today. Forget where I saw it. Do you know that the approval rating for Dems has gone down to 22%? And that's there's some people. They just said you know what? It just you know they're going to have to change Y'all. The Democrat part is going to have to change. The Democrat part is going to have to change. They are Like you did 30 years ago. I mean 22%. It was at 29. And then it dropped even more.

Mia Voss:

Well, and then to be clear with that too, is that that doesn't mean that people are pro-MAGA.

Deborah Burgess:

Exactly. Thank you, I'm glad to see that.

Mia Voss:

Yeah, it just means that they're so disappointed in how they're reacting so well and I know we've kind of beat all these these grim things. So tell me how you're feeling as far as action items and you know kind of what you're doing on a daily basis One to not not to spin, but to still feel as far as you know, like the racial politics and things like that Right.

Mia Voss:

All of that, because even when we're looking we talked about ice before we're talking about all these different. I mean talk about the people are okay with watching their fellow citizens. I mean to an extent, I mean their people are calling it out, but I mean talk about the hatred. These are like guys that are in fake outfits. Oh my God, people are okay with them yanking them off the streets.

Deborah Burgess:

I mean, they're not only yanking people, they're yanking like the poor US Senator Padilla. They yanked him around, pushed him around. You know, and I would just say you know, if I was just saying action items, no matter the generation or anything, it's sort of like you, you know me, and I kind of talked about things that we do. I mean, when you're kind of ingratiated in these new things coming, it can make you crazy. Is the first of all is to take care of yourself physically. I, I, I. You know, when people see me, you're gonna see I have a very my. I tell me of my hair. I can tell you, because I buy a wall haircut as I cut my own hair. I have my own little blade. I know exactly the one I put on my, the one 16th cut. I love it.

Deborah Burgess:

And I take care of myself. So that's getting to. I swim to get away. I walk my. I'm here in Mandel, texas. I walk my dog. It's the take care of yourself first, whatever that looks like. If you like knitting, if you like, you know first Whatever that looks like If you like knitting. If you like playing, go bowling. I have friends of mine that I work with when I was working in the party as an activist volunteer. They bowl on the team. I think taking care of yourself is paramount, whatever that looks like. I do too. That's the one thing.

Deborah Burgess:

Another thing is who you hang around with, who you stick with. You know what I'm saying? The kind of people. If you stick around with people, that's all negative. I mean, there's no way I could be around a mag of people. I cannot be around mag. I could be around them and we have a good conversation. I can hear them, they can hear me. But I would say, be careful who you hang with, who you venture with. Sure that would be an action. I don't know what you, what do you, what do you think about?

Mia Voss:

No, I agree on on on both of those Absolutely. And I, I I saw somebody. I think what what's interesting about MAGA is that and being associated with them is. I just was reading oh gosh, was it on? I think it was on Threads Threads loves to. It's like Reddit Lite a little bit. It definitely has a lot of people throughout these scenarios that happen to them, whether they're true or not, and they just want to have some kind of outrage algorithm going. But it was a woman saying I've got all these mega friends, I'm supposed to go to this concert with them this weekend. This one friend always loves to yank my chain and really rile me up. And what happened? Everybody in the comments is like why are you going now?

Deborah Burgess:

Exactly, that's exactly right.

Mia Voss:

Like fuck that concert, like how important is that concert? Because you said there's like these couple hours ride there and back and I just thought, oh my God, can you imagine getting a concert?

Deborah Burgess:

will you appear on? Because right now, our digital footprint.

Mia Voss:

Everything is going to be shown, right. I mean, yes, you can go to dinner with somebody and nobody can post pictures and the whole thing, but there still is like who you know, even if you're not saying anything, and still being associated with these people that is still that's a quiet, that's a quiet agreement, because you're not saying I'm standing up against this.

Deborah Burgess:

Yeah, just think about the number of countries that are pissed when the United States, our neighbor in Canada, mexico who has a woman president down there Panama, venezuela, china I could just go on and on, and on and on and on. Yep, ireland, ireland, you know what? Like I said Mia heard me mention this before with that other group they're literally some Americans who have been in China and they get an airport and they just say everybody, you know, americans, you hold your passport up above your head, yeah, and then you're going to step to the right and you're going to stand until we get to you.

Deborah Burgess:

Mm hmm, no privilege with that, no more. Huh. What do you think a lot of that come from? You know you have to. I would say not allow the craziness to make you crazy. You do what it takes to keep some sanity in your life.

Mia Voss:

You know being real.

Deborah Burgess:

Talking with you like having this pocket is real. This is real. This is real. You will be talking.

Mia Voss:

That's, I agree, and I think that's going back to the old. I don't know if you know the. Of course you do that. This the term, the salon, the french salon yes, and I think going back to those days of uh not the hair salon, by the way, y'all but like some salon, salon conversations uh, kind of a Dorothy Parker.

Mia Voss:

A salon is a gathering of people held by a host. These gatherings often consciously follow the definition of the aims of poetry. It says that of Horace's definition of the aims of poetry either to please or to educate. Oh my God, I love this.

Deborah Burgess:

Of course in the picture To please or to educate. Right, I love this, to please or to educate, and there's that word again educate, educare, to draw out, with the goodness from someone, to draw out educare.

Mia Voss:

That's the Latin root. I just love that thing.

Deborah Burgess:

You can look that up. There it is. I didn't know that. I love that.

Mia Voss:

So I think that's what it is too is we are going to have to sort of step back from this constant flow. I mean, even I looked at I was mentioning I looked at my email chain and because I've been so much from a social justice standpoint, a reproductive justice standpoint just anybody except like top of the food chain Christian white guys it's dumb and down for y'all Exactly.

Deborah Burgess:

But this politics and stuff, this racial politics, it is even in some of these, you know, real evangelical churches, even in some Black churches that have gone toward Trump.

Mia Voss:

Yeah, I don't know how they make that make sense. But again, I think that's. You know, I spend a lot of time in incredulity, like just completely, like wow, but I don't want to also get to the piece where I have to deaden it all because I can't. So, it's that little balance in between Debra.

Deborah Burgess:

Well, lisa, I think you know what we're talking about right now and obviously we're in a podcast, but even if we were not in a podcast and we haven't been meeting Mia, we could. We can relate, we can talk about things that makes us human. That makes us human that was one of the greatest compliments that was told to me by one of my clients that they say people come, you know you as an online coach, you know some of them, some of them have these big jobs and all you remind them that they're human. I think a podcast like this reminds people that we're human.

Mia Voss:

I think so too. Thank you, and I think I'm not trying to put a responsibility that you got.

Deborah Burgess:

I'm just saying it makes people realize that you're human, To be human, to communicate and to be able to speak your truth without saying. I don't want to make somebody mad by saying the wrong thing.

Mia Voss:

Right, right. And then for women especially, I think for us to get to the point where we can communicate before we actually get mad, exactly Because there's a lot of times I know for myself I'm better at it now. Now I just pop off, I don't even wait, but I think to be able to enunciate and to get your point across and not have to be until you're just absolutely apoplectic and can't even speak, but just be more like very matter of fact, nope.

Deborah Burgess:

And if people don't realize that they're male or female. You ever seen a woman? They've done had any real mia. You might be a little bit too human because mia is 10 years younger than me, but mia it was a, it was one. It was the best role the late farrah foster done on the burning bed that was based on a true story.

Mia Voss:

Remember that. Remember that.

Deborah Burgess:

That was her best role I have ever. That was based on. If that woman had had I don't know how many years of abuse oh gosh, that was a really groundbreaking. It's like Lorraine Ababic Remember what she did. Yeah, remember, you know, you know exactly.

Mia Voss:

I think it was with a knife. Actually, I don't know if it was scissors, but you know, no, the scissors or a knife, but the point we're taking.

Deborah Burgess:

What you're saying is that people need to be in, whoever out there. You don't let a woman, when a woman and had had enough, yeah, you better go another opposite direction when they don't have enough. I mean, she set that man on fire, you know what?

Mia Voss:

I forgot.

Deborah Burgess:

You know, what?

Mia Voss:

Here's a good combination, though, of the sort of the, the warning to you know, to men and, just you know, people in general that are being trifling on the other side of this is that there is and I think they feel it, there is a storm brewing right. There is a collective righteous anger where it is like enough already, but I and I think we can do the combination of distilling that anger into action.

Deborah Burgess:

Yeah, how you take that and turn it into action, credible action for doing that I'm just trying to think of that With ease.

Mia Voss:

Do you know what I mean? I was watching a video of a guy. I love this different kind of stuff. There's a guy whose neighbor kept. They had a bunch of cars and they kept parking there. They got mad. That people was, you know, public parking, so they were putting these big rocks kind of in the in the spaces so people couldn't park there. And the kid comes over and he starts moving it and the guy's like hey, don't, don't do that, I'm asking you not to do that. And he just goes no thanks, no, no, exactly. I don't know why the ease. I'm just like, yeah, no thanks. And I think there's some ease to that as well too. I was thinking about.

Deborah Burgess:

The word came to me and Mia knows this when we talk why can't we practice a little bit more political judo? Because judo? Judo means the gentleness of giving away. It comes originally from jujitsu, which was more hardcore, and judo, which is what I've been, had been involved in since I'm 19, I'm 70 now political judo. Can we have the gentleness of giving. When you push a person, I'm not gonna put to put you back, I'm going to let you speak. There's actually a book on that, but I don't know if it's from a communication point of view. I have to look it up. It's something about communicating using communicative judo.

Mia Voss:

Oh gosh. And on that note, because we're going to end up at, one of the things that we have seen from a couple different sources is the fact that Orange Julius and his whole regime, that he doesn't read Like he literally doesn't read, and so I would say from the idea of the salon and getting together with people is also just doing some critical thinking and reading Exactly.

Deborah Burgess:

And you just made me think about something which, if he doesn't read, he doesn't have any critical you can. You can tell his speeches. He has no critical thinking. To critically think Is to be able to think outside yourself. He has no assessment skills of you know what. I don't think I did the right thing. I think this decision to bomb Iran was. You know, he's on his plane. I think I'm going to do that, just like that, but I think I really think that's what he did.

Mia Voss:

Oh, he was mad about the. I think he was mad about the parades, I think he was really, really. And here's another one, and then we're going to get out of here because we. Time flies it does, but I noticed that we haven't seen as much about elon this week, right.

Deborah Burgess:

So they're on the house.

Mia Voss:

You know that right right, they on the house and um, on the idea of the, the twilight zone. He reminds me of that kid that, like all the people, were in the town and he could make people disappear and go away, and he would have the little bits and everything it's kind kind of what Trump's cronies remind me of.

Deborah Burgess:

They're super scared.

Mia Voss:

They're just going to go along with it, because they don't know what they're going to do next?

Deborah Burgess:

Some little boys. You know you're in a male incantation, but your mind is like a little boy. And CE Lundblad? You don't hear from him. All his money went down, especially with his company, 72%. And what was it? Was it a week before last, last week, when one of the rockets out there that exploded?

Mia Voss:

I think it was last week, yeah. It's on takeoff.

Deborah Burgess:

You know, I don't mean to be weird, but don't you find it funny with some of these men, these billionaires that have these going into space? How come those space rockets are shaped kind of phallically? I knew what you were going to say but you already knew what I was getting ready to say, didn't you? We haven't even known each other for three months and you already knew what I was thinking.

Mia Voss:

I'm just asking.

Deborah Burgess:

Don't you think that's something?

Mia Voss:

Asking for a friend, yeah.

Deborah Burgess:

That may be another podcast, oh.

Mia Voss:

God, I think there's such a thing about oh my. God Little boys that don't never want to grow up. Yeah, some kind of shortcoming. All right y'all, we have more to come. So thank you for tuning in and listening to us rant, and I think we made some good points.

Deborah Burgess:

Absolutely, you for tuning in and listening to us rant and I think we made some good points. Absolutely, absolutely.

Mia Voss:

Thanks everyone, Bye-bye. Hey, thanks for tuning in. You can check out the show notes and guest links at shitwedontalkaboutpodcastcom. If you liked this episode, please subscribe and give it a like or leave a review, especially if it's a good one. See you next time. Bye.