Superman - What's most iconic about Superman movies?

In this episode, Movie Shelf dives deep into the latest Superman film, discussing character arcs, notable performances, and the film's overall impact. We highlight the evolution of Superman's character, noting how this version presents a more relatable and human side of the iconic hero. The conversation also touches on the portrayal of supporting characters like Mr. Terrific and Krypto, emphasizing their significance in the narrative. We also share our appreciation for the film's visual effects and nostalgic elements while critiquing certain changes to the Superman lore, particularly regarding his parents' motivations. As we reflect on the film's themes and character dynamics, we also compare it to previous Superman adaptations, providing insights into how the franchise has evolved over the years.

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Transcript

I'm Heather and I'm Cory. And this is Movie Shelf where we talk about movies, movie trivia, and just about anything related to pop culture. We're glad you're here. In today's episode, we're going a little back in time, back to the summer of 2025 and talking about James Gunn's Superman movie. We'll also

discuss our favorite Superman movies and top Lex Luthor portrayals. We'll also chat about movies coming out and, of course, we'll enjoy a side of bacon. Mmm, bacon.

So this version of Superman starts a new movie story of the caped hero. Clark Kent is already working at the Daily Planet and he is also Superman's exclusive reporter. he and Lois Lane are already in a relationship. Lex Luthor comes on the scene to cause chaos.

in an attempt to bring down Superman, bringing the need from help from the justice gang, which apparently is a working name for that. Unofficial title self-declared by one individual within the group. Yes. So the movie stars David Cornsweet or Cornsweat. think. Yeah. Okay. So David Cornsweat as Superman and Clark Kent.

the only other thing I think we really know him from is from the twisters movie that came out back in like 2024. He was one of the weather people. Yeah. Yeah. Or he was the villain or one of the villains. was it on the villain side? He was on the villain side. Okay. The corporation side. Yeah. It also stars Rachel Brosnahan as Lois Lane. And I'm really only know her from the marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which is a delightful show.

and Nicholas Holt is playing Lex Luthor. We know him probably best from playing Beast in the X-Men first class group. We also saw him, you know, like in warm bodies. That may have been like our first time we saw him or something of that sort. He was a zombie that was like having the thoughts of anybody he ate.

It also stars Nathan Fillion as Guy Gardner, who's part of the just the Lantern Corps. Yeah, one currently assigned to Earth. So he's ⁓ kind of the, the, a green lantern, but also like a bit of a jerk or something of that sort. He is known as the jerkiest member of the Green Lantern Corps, but

You just had to have faith that for some reason the ring chose him for a reason. So Alan Tudyk is a robot in the film and Skyler. Gisondo is Jimmy Olson. I know him from the buddies movies. What? Voice of a dog.

He has a voice of a dog, but he's also an actor in the film. So he has a dual role. Eddie Gethsegge is Mr. Terrific. Oh, and I hope there is a Mr. Terrific movie in the works. Yes. Cause it was too good. I think he stole the show from the movie, but yeah, he was, I think he was the unexpected joy in the movie.

So our likes and dislikes. First on my list is I liked the Earth family focus versus because they, started the film with him, you know, the, the recording of his parents.

was like his soothing, almost like soothing lullaby to keep him calm. But by the end of the movie, it gets a little more grounded in his earthly parents or adopted parents. and the, in this film, he both ma and Paul Kent are both still there. which is a little different. Yeah.

I also this is something we see in several of James Gunn's movies, but his flavor of humor was evident in the film. think for the most part through the Justice Gang and their tactics and style of fighting or just interacting with each other.

you know, we definitely have seen James Gunn's humor in, you know, the guardians of the galaxy movies and his suicide squad that he did. he did the good one, right? The, the one that was titled the suicide squad. the suicide squad. on kind of a dislike, I was actually annoyed with Lex's motivation. So for me, I rooted his motivation in.

He didn't like Superman because Superman had powers and he didn't. Well, we also had to assume that, you know, Superman has been in the world for a few years by the time we come into the movie. So we just had to assume that he's naturally already been a thorn in his side for some time. And he just decided I need to get rid of this guy. Yeah, it's just I think there was one monologue he had and it was just it was a little bit more of a whine versus your problem to me.

and you're preventing me from being a success. It was a little bit more like, you you have something that I want and so I'm just going to get rid of you or something. So that's what I'm rooting it in. And I feel like that's not the standard that we see in the Lex Luthor portrayals, you know, even way back to the Gene Hackman portrayal and the real estate, you know, motivation and conquering the world.

I just, didn't get that vibe from this Lex Luthor. I'm, I'm hopeful that maybe as if this, if this story continues, of the old Lex Luthor's try to kill him. Yeah. But they also had a mission of conquering the world to me in this movie, in this, ⁓ Superman movie, Lex's motivation was just kind of whiny. Like he just was,

wants to conquer the world. This movie just take it one more, just one step at a time. ⁓ Step one. Well, I think that they could have had a different, maybe they just needed a different monologue. Maybe, maybe. Okay. I enjoyed the emotional arc that we see in Lois. So at the beginning of the movie, she's perhaps maybe a little standoffish. She really just doesn't even know how she should feel about things.

Yeah. Their relationship has been kind of going on for, don't know how long. It seems a little rocky when we're introduced to her. And you know, maybe she's not wanting to dive in fully on the Superman train and whatnot. we see- Ellie's not make it public. Well, there's that, but, but then we see this arc for her throughout this movie as she's also working to help save Superman or say, you know,

because he does get, you know, trapped for a while and needs some help. So again, you need a little help from his friends, including the Justice Gang. With a little help from my... Is this not a song? Yeah, from The Beatles. Although there is an Elmer Fudd version, which is really fun too.

Anyway, so you already mentioned this earlier, but a huge like for the film is Mr. Terrific. And the actor that portrayed him did an excellent job. We had seen him also in the X-Men First Class. Yes. He had kind of a tragic role. We also saw him, he was a regular on

the show House for a while. Like a season, think he was like the flavor of the season, the flavor. Yeah, was the season where like a big shift happened and House was interviewing a lot of people to be his next core team. So he was just part of the group that was in the running. So that was our introduction to this actor. And as Mr. Terrific, he kind of had this like soulful vibe, I think the whole time.

you know, and people would underestimate him like, it's the smart one. like the one in the chair and, but, know, you don't need to underestimate him. He can definitely hold his own, which was definitely evident on the beach scene. So I'm with you, Cory. I'm all about, let's dive in more and have more Mr. Terrific. and the comic books, he, he was always credited for having the third highest IQ on the planet. So a little tidbit there.

And that can definitely serve them well, especially against Lex Luthor. Because again, not sure how was totally supposed to come off cross in this film, but I know at least in the comic books or at least I'll just I'll say in the cartoons, Lex is just amazingly smart. then finally, I will put it on the like side. Krypto, the chaos of the film. So I think.

my actual initial introduction to Krypto may really have been just the super dog movie. Like, I mean, think there was always references and well, there was an older animated Superman cartoon series that had Krypto in it. Yes. Krypto I'm sure is nothing like the actual like comic book version of Krypto. Well, before this movie, Krypto has always been

⁓ in this, would say in this, I don't know. say in the style of like a pit bull. Yeah. He was pretty bulky and like super dogs. My point though is I feel like he's always portrayed perhaps as like loyal, you know, kind of like Superman, know? Whereas this was a very relatable dog. It doesn't always do what you want. More to your standard dog. a cute little terrier looking dog.

So I put that on. quick note, that the dog, or Krypto in this movie, was modeled after James Gunn dog, if it was pure white. Yes. So, his dog is very similar. Image and attitude. Or behavior. Yes. All right. So Cory, do you have any other likes or dislikes that you wanted to make sure to address?

I like the relatability that this Superman had. Ooh. Okay. Can you dive into that a little bit on what you mean?

He seemed more human as far as personality goes. Okay. Okay. I mean, a little bit less of the super, super Eagle scout type mentality. Okay. A little bit more down to earth. One who, you know, Hey, he's a guy that makes mistakes on a daily basis. Like you and I, he just happens to have superpowers, you know? So, but it's still a good guy. Yeah. Type of guy.

So Cory, would you say another like that you have about this film is that it maintained some ⁓ element of the Superman theme music? Yes. And we can dive more into that later, but ⁓ I've heard you mentioned several times the, you know, the, power and importance of the original Superman theme music. Yes.

Can I mention about my, my largest dislike? Okay. The changing of the Canon with the parents. ⁓ okay. So in every other version, you know, yeah, they sent Kal-El to earth to make earth help make earth a better place to help humanity become what it can potentially be. Not a harem, right? You know, I mean,

I mean, in more than one version, you hear the, you know, there are good people that they wish to be Cal-el They just lack the light to show them the way. And for this, I send them you, my son, you know, all you have, all the, you know, Christian parallelisms there. And this just destroys that. Do you think that, well, I, I, I do know that I read about that. And I know that James Gunn just mentioned that he wanted, he wanted a stronger focused with the adoptive.

or adopted parents. Fine, but don't change the canon.

So we focused a lot of like on the characters and whatnot, but there is the overall aspect of the film that, A: it's beautifully made. Like the digital work is great. And because it's this, you know, over the top, you know, kind of sci-fi element to it. Again, very James Gunn like. You have like the wormholes and this weird, I forgot, the pocket universe.

and just dealing with all of that, there's weird characters in that universe too. We meet the elemental man. And that's another interesting thing that this is the first live action version of Superman where superheroes have been existing for hundreds of years already. Okay. So that was also, you know, more in line with canonized comic books, if you would. So, and this one also, they opted to lean toward the comics.

And he had his underwear on the outside. they're back to the red underoos. The red briefs. yeah. So there was a lot of nostalgia, I think, that they were in this world of all this digital craziness that they have of the ability, which they still had. There was still that nostalgic level, which was kind of nice. You know, they still all worked at a newspaper office and they all still had like some of these classic

like the test, ⁓ Tessmacher, Ms. Test marker person. Eve, think her name is Eve, Eve Tessmacher. ⁓ she was still there, still kind of a quirk and ⁓ playing a ditz, but not really a ditz kind of person. Otis, Otis changed a bit. He was still there. He was not as ditzy as the original Otis. Yeah. The kind of twisted is between those two.

One thing I thought was a little odd in this movie, especially since this was following other recent movies

like black Adam. Okay. So black Adam introduces Hawkman. This movie introduces hawkgirl, but they said that Superman was the only extraterrestrial, but Hawkman and hawkgirl mean, unless they're keeping that on the down low that their extraterrestial also, it was like, are they portraying themselves as mutants with these abilities to fly or, you know, it's like,

not sure what's going on there, but it's kind of definitely breaking canon If they are not saying that they're not extraterrestial. So not sure what, what is angle with that is yet. Okay. All right. I think we are ready to get to our verdict and then we'll get to what you really want to talk about that you keep trying to talk about this whole time. All right. So does it make the movie shelf or not?

What do you think, Cory? For me, it makes the shelf. Yeah. I also say yes. it's actually something that's already been watched over and over it seems. but then again, I live with Cory and Cory just puts movies on all the time cause it's his background for life. And, ⁓ but it is a fun one.

Our four year old, we took him, he enjoyed it. He was wearing his little Superman shirt.

Later on that month, we even went to this special DC, they called it the universe of light. was all this like these lanterns, but it was all the DC comics. It was great. Of course it was tied in with the movie. lanterns green? Not just There was the green one, the green lantern. But all the characters were lanterns of sorts. So we've had, it was definitely a DC summer for us. ⁓ And then even when we went there, my dad got

Kiddo a little Superman. So he even has a Superman plush toy to sleep with that night. So I think they did a really good job with Presenting the movie the movie itself was just fun. The promotion of the movie was fun. It was a great summer blockbuster hit your your sorry note was just like yes, my only sorry note really is just the I just I felt like we needed a different motivation for him So he didn't sound so whiny

so next on our topic list is what you really want to talk about. We wanted to talk about the Superman movies that we liked or not that we like, but just a quick comparison.

So the foundation of Superman, of course, in our minds is Christopher Reeve. And yes, there was the black and white series before that, we're, not, not going there. ⁓ and so this brings Superman one and two, we just kind of lump them together because they're, they follow like, well, they were written as

one movie that they just had to do in, you know, four hours. there was kind of your part one and part two, literally. This one, course, Marlon Brando is playing Jor-El and he is sending his son off from Krypton. That's the very opening because Krypton is about to explode. Yes. But there's also them because it becomes this whole, you know, He has like committing treason, treason because he's

you know, not following the regular of nobody leaving. Yes. And then he did tell the council that he would not leave. Yeah. Does he, I think he actually proposed that me and my wife will not leave. think they may have kept the baby a secret from the council. So, and this one, of course you, he's, you know, it starts out landing in Kansas and he's found by Mon-Paw Kent and they quickly, quickly learn.

Very quickly. special powers. And that he's not from around here. Yeah. ⁓ I, I do think that one kind of avoids the, I mean, it shows Pa Kent, you know, dying, but it's not overly melodramatic. Like, it's a very quick short scene. ⁓ and it's in no way necessarily Superman's fault. If that makes sense or something like that, that we'll address that in another Superman movie.

And then he goes to the paper and again, it's just, you know, getting on the inside track of everything and meets Lois. Lois is her own, her own superpower of just, you know, hunting for stories and, you know, being a powerful woman, which is great. And then of course we have Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor. I know you have a problem with him

Well, yeah, because he was like, this is like the earliest occurrence I can think of to where the actor is just not doing their job of bringing the director's vision to life. They go, well, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do this. And there's just way too much of that nowadays. It's like, look, you know, the writer, maybe in the writer director together, they have this vision and it should be the actor's job just to bring their vision to life, not to interject their own.

Now I have, there was one actor that's done that many times that I actually applaud for doing, but that's a, that's another topic. Well, and you also are being a little aloof on what you're trying to talk about. And that is with the wig. Yes. So, so he did not want to be bald. He's always bald. He's always been bald and they wrote him to be bald in the movie. And Gene Hapkis light. Well, I'm not going to be bald through the whole movie. Yeah. But I mean,

It also, feel I don't have a problem with it only because I felt like it added a little quirkiness to him. it almost shows a little bit of weakness. he's uncomfortable with his real self or something. don't know. Who knows. All right. So that's the foundation. If anyone's ever going to watch any Superman movie, you got to start with one and two. Yes. And skip three and four.

I mean, of course there's preposterous things. We're spinning the earth back in time and, um, but then, know, you get to Superman. a thorn out of so many fans' Superman 2 you know, we, we, gets to have a shack up night and then realizes, nope, I still need to be Superman. He didn't come out on his own accord. And, um, and you know, you have of course the great Zod. Um,

And, his, the, name escapes me on the actor. Cause he passed away. think not too long ago. it like Terrence stamp? Yes. Terrence stamp. He plays Zod. ⁓ and if you've ever watched Eddie Murphy, Haunted Mansion, he's in that as well. And I'm sure he's in other things that are more credible, but he is great as Zod and how those, again, those three characters and how they're discovering their powers are just interesting. think.

And interesting in the smallville series is the voice of Jor-El. Oh, I didn't. I don't know if I remember that. From the dad's villain to being the dad. All right. So then we go forward in time and we have Superman three. So this came out in 1983. Yeah. We're not even going to talk about it. is the Richard Pryor Or four. wait. OK. Wait for second, though. This one left a huge impression on me.

It came out. was like three years old when it came out. And whenever I saw it, the lasting impression I had was the robot. The robot lady. ⁓ because at some point at the end of the movie, they're in like this ice or cold area or something, but I forgot what they were doing. Somehow this machine essentially eats the woman and she becomes like this, cyborg lady. And it was just very disturbing to me when I was little.

I can see that as a kid, seeing that and being disturbed by It's less disturbing now, but it was very disturbing as you know. Even at the age I was, it was a little disturbing. That's little freaky looking. But yeah, but this one, of course, says Richard Pryor. And I just remember him trying to maneuver the little thingies. He's tying his hand to somebody. And when I say thingies, mean like key cards. He's trying to get key cards in at the same time.

Then we have Superman four. Yes, we can skip this one. Okay. This is the one where like he becomes his own evil self, right? No, we already talked too much about it. Okay. And then we get to, yeah. Superman returns in 2006.

To my surprise was a box office flop. Yeah. Well, hold on. First of all, I just want to interject. It is interesting because we go from like the Superman movies of the eighties. Now Superman, the first ones came out in 78, but for the most part, the eighties Christopher Reeve dominated and then there's nothing in the nineties. Yeah. And then 2006 we get Superman returns. Now granted, yes, we had Smallville going on.

in the early 2000s. anyway, so Superman Returns, this is the one with, Brandon Routh. Brandon Routh, he's Superman. And you have Kevin Spacey playing Lex Luthor, who I think is dominantly bald in that film, but he still plays up the thing. Yeah, they do. There is a scene with wigs. ⁓ But this movie,

It's as if it would take place right after Superman 2 or not right after, like three and four did not years after sleep Superman 2 and as, though three and four didn't happen as it should. And if you, there's an instance in Superman 2 where Lois's memory gets wiped a little bit, right? yeah. At the end. Which one of those will bizarre superman powers Yeah. So if before you watch Superman returns, you have to watch Superman 2.

One and two. and two. Because the stories are connected. Otherwise it's kind of like, what happened? But again, this one played up on that nostalgia feel. the Daily Planet has, you know, that old like forties, fifties.

flavor to it. Lois Lane is again, a sharp shooting kind of, you know, writer. She's one she run like a Pulitzer or something like that. Right.

but Lois is kind of ⁓ a scorned woman when it comes to Superman. So even though she may not remember everything, but she does know that he left her. so that's where she wrote her, her infamous article of like why the world doesn't need Superman. So unless you want her pulls before. Now in this one, I felt that the Brandon Roth or Ralph character did a good job.

Clark Kent. Agreed. Yeah, he played a good Clark Kent. So as we all know from Kill Bill, Clark Kent is the costume. Yes. You know and so Clark Kent is the character that Superman plays. so it's I think really important. Christopher Reeve did an amazing Clark Kent. He also did an amazing Superman and we didn't mention it but in Superman 1

when we were watching the documentary about Christopher Reeve, his son mentioned that he loved that scene in Superman 1. He showed what his favorite scene was. Yeah. And it's in Superman 1 when Clark Kent comes over to Lois's apartment. Right after flying around with her as Superman. Yeah. And has a moment where I don't know if he felt like he might want to He contemplated revealing who he was. But you know, he...

So he's standing there as Clark Kent. She's in another room, but then he takes off his glasses. He stands straight, which is like almost like rising, six inches seemed takes off the slouch. The, um, voice here. Yeah. And the insecureness that you get from Clark Kent, um, cause he kind of is the little bumbly vanished. Yes. And in a blink, all of a sudden. So anyway, it's just a lot of fun. then in blink, it all came back.

Yes, but then he decides no, no, no, no, no. And he kind of goes into his little, he says that scene portrays what he's having to do through the whole movie of playing two separate, distinct characters. Yeah.

Okay. So now we jump to man of steel. So we've moved up. in 2013 now, and now we have Henry Cavill as Superman who he is a beautiful man.

He is a great actor. beautiful man. He's a beautiful man. He's ginormous, but he's like a ginormous man that doesn't look ginormous. It's kind of weird. he's stopped got the chiseled jaw and all that good stuff. Anyway, he plays a good Superman, but I did not think he played a good Clark Kent. Okay. But my biggest issue with him is the whole time I felt like he always has like a chip on his shoulder. He's like always angry.

And so it just didn't give me that it doesn't for me. It doesn't give the Superman vibe. That said, I adored Jor-El in the film and everybody did. Yeah. Like we get to see a lot more Jor-El. He's played by Russell Crowe and he's this, you know, he's smart. You get a lot more Krypton background.

Michael Shannon is Zod. You get more background with Zod and Jor-El and all that controversy. anyway, so I liked that part. I just didn't like Superman or I didn't like Henry Cavill's Clark Kent and Superman personality necessarily. Well, when you said they always appeared angry, mean, realize that, you know, a lot of time that's going to happen to a person when they, when they're

whole upbringing is being bullied and you know they show he was bullied a lot yeah and so Kevin Costner's playing the dad and his whole thing was the world's not ready for you hide yes so be Clark Kent essentially play the wimp yeah and it and it was just like i i feel like we didn't necessarily get that same idea or from the Christopher Reeve superman

Well, you didn't see the harshness of the bullying, but you know, the dad always said, know, yeah, you're son, you're meant for great things, but scoring touchdowns is not one of them. Yeah. You know, so you got to keep these on the down low until, you know, he hit, use the words till the world's ready to see you. But, know, it was definitely for now, you got to keep this hidden until your destiny is revealed in a way. Yeah. And maybe Kevin Costner had kind of a chip on his shoulder.

And I feel like that just kind of carried through to Henry Cavill's perhaps. then not only that, the death of Pa Kent in Man of Steel is like, well, it's always tragic because you you lose your dad, but this one is tragic because he could have done something. And it's just like, And now he has to live with that. Yeah. It was according to his father's wishes, but he still. Yeah.

He could have, they probably could have disguised it somehow. So that was a bummer. Like it wasn't just this, I mean, was, you know, it was very preventable in his mind, I'm sure. A heart attack is not as preventable. So I think that was an element they added to Man of Steel. And maybe that's, maybe we're using steel in that double sense where, yes, you know.

Superman is, you know, you can't really penetrate his skin or anything like that, but it also, he was very stoic and a little harsh. Now in this one, We don't get introduced to Clark as the journalist until like the end of the movie. Yeah. So we also don't get that part of Clark. So kind of that classic Clark Kent, the journalist. ⁓ So again,

Maybe that's just because maybe that's part of my issue, too. It's it's not the same Clark Kent. And then, of course, we from there, you get Batman versus Superman. So still continuing the Henry Cavill Superman. Now you have Batman. it's kind of weird, like they were very anti each other until they both discovered they have the same mother's name. So it's of a weird thing to bond over. Yes.

I don't know about that connection. ⁓ To me it was just two very hard headed people not wanting to listen to each other and they acted first. I'm sure they both had their own perspectives and justification but anyway. But that's my thing. just, like I said, I really liked Jor-El from Man of Steel but not so much the Superman Clark Kent. What about you?

As far as that specific element or other of the Henry Cavill level, there's been things you've been wanting to talk about with this. Yeah. So going back to the Christopher Reeve one, one basic concept there is that you had the world as it is, and then you had this superhero God just popped down from nowhere and start doing things. And the Christopher Reeve version, the instant reaction from the public is, ⁓ a savior to help us.

And all right. It's like, all right, come on, let's get a little bit more realistic. And that's what Man of Steel does. Okay. Here you had this everyday world, you know, no superheroes or anything. Also, then you got this God that pops down in our planet and reveals himself and the world freaks out. It's like, my gosh, how can we control this guy? Well, what can this guy really do? You know, military gets involved in everything and

It's much more realistic take on how the world would react if that was to happen. That is, that is true. and that is one nice thing perhaps with the current Superman movie, that one that our episode is focused on. We, we don't really get the intro, so we don't have that. We know there's people that have some issues with him.

But, ⁓ but he's introduced even when he does come into the world, the world has had superheroes for some time. Sure. People with super abilities. Right. So, so it's not a total foreign concept. Yeah. ⁓ now I want to make sure you talk about what you wanted to talk about because we kept on, I kept on passing earlier. So the music. ⁓ yes. So go, go for it.

Okay. when you hear someone say Superman, what's the first thing that comes in your head? Up, up and away. the, the, the, the old slogan that

yeah. Hasn't been used since. Leaping tall buildings with single bound. Yeah, the old TV show. So a lot of people, I would say with most people, it would come to the image of Christopher Reeve. Red cape. Yeah. With a lot of people, it'll be the outfit, the red cape, the, ⁓ or the, the iconic logo on the chest. which is apparently not an S. Well, well, depends on which version you're watching. Yeah.

With me, it is undoubtedly the soundtrack, the Superman theme is what is most iconically tied to the name Superman more than anything else. know? So, I mean, John Williams, you're a little biased. was your marching band theme one year ⁓ and you played the trombone. I did. And it is one of the few songs where we got the lead.

It kind of trades off with some of the Trumpets, but yeah, I mean, just that, that, that nice low, ⁓ yeah, that was definitely the, the trombone part blaring, but, ⁓ but yeah, I mean, I mean, John Williams at his best, my opinion, definitely one of his best. And so, yeah, it permeates through all the Christopher Reeve movies and is very strong in the Brandon Routh, superman returns.

And in the newest rendition of Superman, you get nice re-imagined elements of it. Kind of where I mean, the theme is still there. They're just kind of updating it. If you would. Okay. It gets totally scratched in Man of Steel. You were robbed. I mean, yeah. I mean, I mean, no bash to Hans Zimmer, which I'm coming to love as well, but as awesome as he is, he's no John Williams.

to make that call to totally scrap the theme from that movie, I think was definitely a miss in that movie. Yeah, for sure. That really truly is just a testament of the amazing musical prowess of John Williams. mean, he has such a knack for having his music be...

character of the movie. Yes. Jaws. Yes. Jaws. I mean the music was for the the large part of the movie that was Jaws. Yes. ⁓ And then you have Star Wars. ⁓ Anytime you hear pretty much anything from Star Wars you are instantly taken to the film or you know in your mind. Yes. The Jedi theme. Jurassic Park. ⁓ you're jumping way too far ahead. mean ET. Come on. ET.

I do not know the ET theme as well as you, but I will trust you. So he does have this just magical ability to really play into the characters of the film or the theme of the film and where his music just takes you right there to it.

even with all the Harry Potter movies. yes. Yeah. Of course you, you, you, and you listen to that and you're instantly, you know, in Hogwarts in your mind. I mean, let's say there's only one person that has more Oscars than John Williams. And that is Walt Disney as producer, which I'm not sure how really he is involved in the movies, whether it's just signing the check. Yeah. So with John Williams coming up with the Superman theme,

It really, it was, it was definitely groundbreaking. Yeah. So, so everything else with Superman changes, the actor changes, the concept of the character changes, even the logo and the outfit changes. Cause even in the comic books, when he reaches his, you know, when it's more senior citizens Superman, if you would, he changes to a black and white outfit. That's mostly black with white accents because

It draws in more sunlight and helps sustain a little bit more in his older age. So even that goes away in Canon, you know, but you know, in comics, you don't have music granted, but I mean to anybody's still looking through the comics that was raised on the Christopher Reeve movies. mean, I'm still, I'm no doubt in my mind that he still had the theme of the head as they're going through those pages today, you know.

There is another movie that plays tribute to the John Williams theme ⁓ music as well for Superman that you appreciated. ⁓ don't tell me you're to mention the Goonies. Well, I was not thinking the Goonies. because I think there's just a really small blur of the theme when he takes off and shows us the underoos.

No, was going with, um, I am pretty sure the opening of super pets. Oh, and they're sending the baby and Krypto runs in to stay with his, with Superman. Definitely John Williams. Yeah. They, they included that, which I think you had mentioned that you appreciated that. So yeah, yeah. Definitely. Definitely created it. I mean, from the very beginning of that movie, definitely instills some nostalgia there. Oh So yeah, it's a

Music is amazing. ⁓ And I remember in I know I'm going on a tangent now, but I remember, you know, in my psychology class in college, you know, like everyone takes psychology. And our professor was talking about the power of music and its connection to memory. Yes. She was saying, like, if teachers really wanted you to ace all the tests, they would play music.

that as they're teaching and play that same music as you take the test. But you know, and it is really true. Like there's times where I still will recall things that I was reading at that time because I was listening to certain music and I instantly jumped back to whatever I was learning at that time if I hear the music. again, I definitely understand your passion.

of the importance of that sustainability of the John Williams theme music for Superman and its power that it has. so, yeah, to have that totally taken away and discarded in Man of Steel, ⁓ is, is a shame. So, and it, again, it just kind of supports that that Superman and that Clark Kent just, the vibe wasn't really there for me. I'm going to go on a little bit of a tangent here. But if there's something that's

test of time longer than the connection between Superman and the Superman theme is the iconic Tarzan and the Tarzan yell. Okay. Okay. Cause the, the very first TV episode or the very first movies black and white, it was there. And that's going way, way back. mean, I'll have to check, but that's going back decades before.

But did they use the Tarzan yell in the more recent Tarzan movies? Yes. Okay. Yeah. It is still there. It is still unchanged. yeah, I mean, even in the Disney animated one, mean, it is so iconic. I don't think there's a version in the TV series of Tarzan. It's in every tradition you can think of. but it's so it's not music, but it's definitely very audible. That's tied to the character.

All right. Well, thank you for sharing that, I appreciate that. You're welcome.

So we're going to shift a little. Okay. Now we're to talk about Lex Luthor's. Okay. We already did a little bit of Gene Hackman. So Gene Hackman, course, is with the Christopher Reeve, ⁓ Superman movies. Then next on our list actually jumps to, ⁓ smallville, the TV show, ⁓ which is a TV show we watched probably like the whole, the entire series of this. it focuses on, ⁓ Superman or

Really focuses on Clark Kent. There's no Superman in Smallville. Focuses on Clark Kent who is dealing a bit with his powers. Yeah, growing up with his abilities Never flies. don't know. Did he even fly at all in the final episode? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He's on the final episode. I'll need a rewatch. But there was one episode where he woke up floating above his bed. And when he gained consciousness, he falls. And it's like, whoa, what just happened? But he can definitely run.

And this one, think, what did they call them? Do they call them meta humans? No. What did they call? ⁓ Part of the premise is that when Superman or when Clark came came to, well, we'll say Superman, Superman came to Earth. He came kind of in a meteor shower of kryptonite. Yes. And broken pieces of krypton. And this kryptonite or yes, the broken, the Krypton Kryptonian meteors give other people.

some abilities too. Some good, some Particularly they had long exposure to it or experimented with it. So in fact sometimes the show gets to that monster of the week flavor. Yeah season two was definitely the freak of the week type of thing. And of course there's high school drama. Here he's got his crush with Lana. There is Lex. So he's friends with Lex.

But the true Lex Luthor really is Lex's dad, Lionel Luthor. He's the businessman. He's now of course, Lex himself is bald. I think they deter, decided that during the big meteor shower, was something that affected him and he lost all his hair. Michael Rosenbaum though is an excellent Lex Luthor. Again, a little different. I would say to some degree, the Michael Rosenbaum Lex Luthor character,

I could see evolving into how we saw Nicholas Holt's Lex Luthor portrayal because again, there's that feeling of,

greed and abilities. Yeah. And you know, like, you know, why do I not get to have this kind of thing? make no mistake in Smallville, you definitely saw Dark Sides of Blacksmither. it was like, Hey, we're just friends and all of one day he just decides to go back. Yeah, no, it's definitely, uh, every now and then we're enemies and every now and then we're the best of friends. Um, type of show. Which I think was never true, but it was all facade. Perhaps. Um, but yeah, look, Michael Rosenbaum.

I definitely enjoyed him as ⁓ Lex Luthor and also for everyone out there. If you've ever watched the Justice League animation, animated shows, Michael Orza-Babin is the voice of the Flash and he is amazing. he so now we jump up to Superman Returns. We have Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor. I know there is a dark cloud on Kevin Spacey at the moment, but he is

an excellent actor and he did a great portrayal as, ⁓ he's my favorite Lex. okay. Yeah. but he did a great portrayal of, of, Lex Luthor again, really playing off the Gene Hackman flavor. Again, very real estate focused. You saw the connivance. You saw the intelligence. mean, every element of what you would expect to see in Lex Luthor was there. Yeah. And then we go again to Man of Steel where

I didn't really like the Superman character. I don't like the Lex Luthor character. have Jesse Eisenberg, which wasn't even in men's deal. didn't come out. yeah. Batman versus Superman. Anyway, but he's that Lex Luthor. Probably the worst. Yeah. He was just more, he should have been like the Riddler or something like he wasn't a Lex Luthor. No, he wasn't. and then as, as we've already talked about Nicholas Holt for the 2025 Lex Luthor. And so we'll see, we'll see how he evolves.

next on our list, it's to talk about things that are coming soon. And for this movie, I just had one that I wanted to talk about spring boarding from Superman. We have Supergirl coming out, which I believe is coming out this year. Is that correct? Or 20, 20, this summer. So this one, Supergirl will star Millie Alcock.

I believe. And we, only know her from Game of Thrones or not Game of Thrones, but the house of dragons, which is a spin off from the Game of Thrones. She's the younger Targaryen princess person or queen person, whatever she is. Yeah. And you feel this movie is the super girl movie is well, let me preface is probably gonna be a flop.

Okay. Okay. Now, now we do learn in the Superman movie, Krypto is really Kara. Yeah. It's really her dog, not his. ⁓ and I also, know she does not do a good job in raising him. And I believe, I think we learned this or I had learned this, think from the smallville show. ⁓ but so my understanding is that Kara is, she might mentally in her, in her mind be like older than Superman.

Only because she was like a teenager when she left Krypton. Yes. He was a baby, but something happened and she went like a skew or something. Yeah. Something happened that they both did not take the same route coming to earth. And you know, you got Einstein's theory that when you travel fast in light, that time slows down with the universe around you. And maybe she went through a warm home and skipped a lot of that time or something, but yeah. So she arrives later. So like in her mind.

She remembers her cousin as a baby. Yes. But now he's older than her. older. Yes. But, she's still kind of this teenager, although she, maybe she's like a young adult in the movie or so. I'm not sure how they're really portraying her, but we know she wants to be a party girl. but, but she's traumatized by seeing the destruction of her world. ⁓ Okay. And it sounds like that. I don't know this for sure, but you know, in the comic books, you find out that ultimately the world was destroyed by brainiac.

And it may seem like that they're introducing that concept into it. Okay. So I do know that in like the like Superman trailer that we're seeing now before it was just a teaser. Now we're seeing the trailer. She mentions that, you know, like her cousin, so Superman sees the world for what it can be. Yes. And she sees it for what it is. So she is very pessimistic. She's like Man of Steel Superman. So anyway.

But you also mentioned in it. So while you're predicting it to be a flop, you also mentioned you think it is really just a grand way to introduce who? Lobo. And tell me about Lobo. Lobo is his intergalactic bounty hunter. Okay. And he is a character that- I'm going to picture Raising Arizona, the biker guy with the little rattle or whatever was on his thing. Right? All go ahead. And he-

You know, I don't have a full list of all of his abilities, but you know, but he can exist in space without having to breathe, you know, air and so forth. if him and Superman were to be in a boxing match, it would be a tough call as to who would come out on top. is he just powerful or does he also have magic? Cause we know that Superman is susceptible to magic. Yeah. I don't think he has any magic ability. in fact,

He could almost be more affordable because you could almost picture Superman with Wolverine like healing abilities. So if they were both to sustain the same type of wound, I believe all has an ability where he would heal faster. the other factor or issue perhaps about Lobo is that DC is pulling a Marvel like with Chris Evans.

Yes. Because Lobo is supposed to be played by Jason Momoa. Who is of course Aquaman. In like at least two movies or there might be others like that he's in. At least three. Okay. Can't remember how many portrayals Aquaman one and two and then Justice League. Yeah. And then there's the redo of Justice League. Well, yeah, we're not going to get into that. So interesting that DC is reusing people.

And I guess Marvel's doing that now with Robert Downey Jr. Okay. So we are anticipating Supergirl. I'm sure we'll see it. We'll see how it really plays out. but the reason why they're introduced to Lobo is because yeah, James Gunn, he's got something in the back of his mind in the works of a some sort of Superman versus Lobo scene in some future movie, undoubtedly.

All right, so next on our list is to go over our bacon.

So we were connecting Zoe Saldana to Viola Davis. Yes, to Viola Davis. All right. So I have it in three movies, I believe. Three movies. I have Zoe to Chris Pratt in Guardians of the Galaxy.

Good one. Chris Pratt to Bryce Dallas Howard in Jurassic Park. Okay. And then Bryce Dallas Howard to Viola Davis in The Help. ⁓ okay. So who did you get? Well, I got it in two movies. Ooh. Yeah. I see your gears turning already. Like how did he beat me on this? Well Viola I know is in the Suicide Squad.

Ding ding ding ding ding You're using Nathan Fillion aren't you? No. Although I could have. Okay who are you using? Michael Roker. Okay. He was one of the ones that died off real at the beginning of the Suicide Squad movie. Yes. Okay so. That makes it obvious. yeah. So. Zoe is out there to Michael Roker in any Garden of the Galaxy movie and then Michael Roker to Viola Davis and the Suicide Squad.

So my bacon pick for this episode or this discussion. So we'll talk about this one late at their next episode is Gene Hackman. So I'm playing off of the Lex Luthers. Okay. And ⁓

Who are you picking? ⁓ You know, this guy has been in a way wanting to play this character for so long. It's a little sad that they gave him the crappy one, but I'm going go with Nathan Fillion playing Green Lantern. But he's doing a great job with this guy, Gardner He's the Green Lantern that everybody wants to hate. Now, one thing we've discovered is that Nathan Fillion is in

like just about every James Gunn movie it seems. Yeah. Yeah. Whether it, mean, often as a cameo. Yeah. Very small cameo, but this is definitely his biggest part so far in a DC or a Gunn movie.

So we have Gene Hackman to Nathan Fillion. Okay. Thanks for listening to Movie Shelf. Yep. If you would subscribe to our channel so you get our future drops as soon as they hit.

We are working really hard on trying to get a lot more episodes for this year. It was really sad to find out that in 2025 we only had four episodes. I know life gets busy. All right. So be sure of course to check our show notes page for links to the movies we talked about in our bacon reminders. We will catch you next time you guys. Bye bye.