Dr. Neil's Spiritual Awakening to Non-Duality
NEW EPISODES THE 1st OF EVERY MONTH
You may have heard about spiritual awakening. Do you know someone who is living it? Join us as Dr. Neil Schuitevoerder describes the lived experience of an advanced stage of human consciousness and shares insight for seekers of all traditions. Dr. Neil will speak from the direct experience of Being, Brahman, Sunyata, or Pure Consciousness as he transmits Non-dual Reality to you -- non-dual space/time, non-dual thinking, non-dual love, the non-dual body, and his yogic abilities to travel the cosmos, move through the bardos and, at the same time, live as a psychologist, husband, father, and grandfather. His experience dispels many myths about awakening. He will be interviewed by his partner, Dr. Connie Zweig, author of Meeting the Shadow, Romancing the Shadow, Meeting the Shadow on the Spiritual Path, and the award-winning book The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul.
Dr. Neil's Spiritual Awakening to Non-Duality
Varieties of Non-dual Higher States
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Dr. Neil describes several states of consciousness beyond ego – pleasure, well-being, joy, ecstasy, and radiance. He explains that they exist as eternal frequencies and can be tuned into when the chakras and subtle bodies are prepared. They are beyond subject/object dualities, beyond doer/receiver, unlike ego states of pleasure or joy.
Greetings. Welcome back. Today we're going to explore a variety of non-dual states of consciousness that are higher levels of consciousness beyond ego, beyond subject-object, that Neil has been experiencing for a while now. And he's going to describe how they unfolded and how they're distinct states that are different from the ego's versions of these states as feelings. These are not simple emotions. They're actual non-dual states of consciousness. Okay, Dr. Neil.
SPEAKER_00Let's start with pleasure. Pleasure is an ego state, but it's also a non-dual state. There's such a thing as pleasure in the body, just by being in it, not by doing anything, not by exploring anything, not by evoking anything, just the existence of being that is experienced in the body, a sense of pleasure, deep pleasure.
SPEAKER_01And what makes it non-dual?
SPEAKER_00What makes it non-dual is that there's no doer, nobody doing it. That's connected with the body, but there's no uh sense of self or other, or someone pleasuring me, or someone making me happy, or someone making me unhappy, which I think a lot of uh ego states are all about what somebody else can do for you, or what you can do to get something for yourself.
SPEAKER_01And is this pure pleasure in the non-dual state um connected to a chakra?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's connected to the first chakra, but it's not the normal first chakra that you get with an ego state, it's already returning after being awake and being stabilized in enlightenment to the body, and the sense of the body is being an expression or an aspect of consciousness, of non-duality.
SPEAKER_01Okay, and what's the next one?
SPEAKER_00The next one I would be well-being, a deep sense of well-being that feels like I'm totally healthy, even though I might not be. But there's a feeling of being a well-being that moves through the physical and emotional process, and it has no doer in it. There's nobody doing it, there's nobody receiving it, it just is there. So well-being is not the same as pleasure, it's it's uh a sense of being fulfilled, completely, happy.
SPEAKER_01So at the doing level, we might go for a run and feel well-being, but this is not that. This is kind of emerging spontaneously.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's emerging spontaneously and it can be evoked. So it's not only uh passive, can be evoked, one can actually move into it by putting attention on it.
SPEAKER_01So when we spoke before, you mentioned that your sense of well-being felt womb-like.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so it feels like I'm in the womb, that my mother's womb, and everything is taken care of. I'm fed and nursed, nurtured, nurtured, and nourished, and all toxic material are removed, and there's a deep sense of growth and feeling good about the life story, the life journey. I can remember being back in the womb with this experience.
SPEAKER_01But why would you have an experience now as a 70-year-old that's womb-like?
SPEAKER_00So the movement of spiritual growth initially moves up the chakras. In other words, the energy moves up the energy centers in the body, in the etheric body, and eventually reaches through the top of the head into a state of non-duality. So this is the return. Then once one is established in that, there's a movement back into the body, going back down through all of the chakras into the body, and and this sense of pleasure and then well-being comes from that cycle from the return. And it's a return cycle again. So there's a cycle that goes upwards into the seventh chakra, and one can say you're going further, but in fact, it goes back into the first chakra and then starts to evolve again. So there's cycles of evolution, and this is uh not the ego cycle, not even the awake cycle. This is uh non-dual cycle.
SPEAKER_01Okay, and what's the next uh state, non-dual state? Actually, no, wait a minute, Neil. You mentioned to me that well-being was connected to the astral body.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's correct. Astral body is uh the next body up from the physical body, it's primarily geared towards emotion, well-being, and and that's awake in me. So I'm living on that plane, talking to people who are dead based on connecting with different beings on that plane. Some are human, some are non-human.
SPEAKER_01And why is the astral plane connected to the non-dual state of well-being?
SPEAKER_00Well, the astral plane is about emotional connectedness, that's how one moves about in the astral plane is by moving towards a sense of connectedness with other beings. So if I want to connect with my mother, I have to feel her or think about her, and there's a connection that occurs.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So the well, so the connection between your astral body and the astral plane and the non-dual state of well-being is what?
SPEAKER_00Well, the can and the well-being is about living on that plane, about being evolved on that plane, about being having access to the nature, the deepest nature of that plane, which is the sense of deep well-being. So the astral body at its most evolved state is in a sense of deep well-being. And in fact, uh a lot of gurus who talk about this as the goal of enlightenment, is the sense of deep well-being. I feel loved, I feel cared for, I feel nurtured, I feel supported. I feel like I'm doing the same for others. So this is the natural state.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And so what's number three?
SPEAKER_00So the next stage is joy, which is a product of the mental body. It's the sense of movement, of deep sense of well-being, and cycles of excitement, of deep pleasure, almost like I'm being played like a musical instrument. That there's these highs and lows, and there's in terms of sense of joy being alive and being here.
SPEAKER_01So it sounds like joy is more dynamic than well-being.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's more dynamic, and it's natural. Um, and it's there as long as I put attention on it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, do you want to say anything else about that?
SPEAKER_00No, I think that's that's sufficient.
SPEAKER_01I mean, when you're talking about it, you look energized, you look vital. What are you feeling when you talk about joy in the mental body?
SPEAKER_00I'm feeling like a deep sense of well-being, that is having peaks and tro. As the best description isn't like a musical instrument being played and playing it, playing on the universe, musical instrument playing the universe.
SPEAKER_01So is this Ananda in Satchadinanda?
SPEAKER_00That's a generic phrase that probably would be best for the heart, which is the next one.
SPEAKER_01So, what is next in the series?
SPEAKER_00Next would be the heart. Um, and ananda might fit, which is bliss. So this is a steady state of well, more than well-being, of bliss that I feel on my tongue, I feel in the heart, I feel in the body, I feel in the connection with all human beings. And it's hard to describe how powerful this is, and it's a product of enlightenment. So uh in Indians would say Sachidunanda, Ananda meaning blissfulness, that's the nature of pure consciousness, but this is more steady than the heart, and it's it's uh it's continuous. And I remember in my previous lifetime when I was uh a Brahman priest, the temple, I went to after I died, I went to Brahmaloka, this blissful heaven, and stayed there for a while. Um steady, constant, 24 hour seven bliss. And truth about it was I got bored with it because after a while, bliss becomes normal and regular, and there was no growth. And part of the reason why there was no growth was because I actually had not gone through many developmental stages between the self and pure awareness. I had jumped, so I had to come back and experience this human journey again in order to go further than blissful state.
SPEAKER_01And what comes after the heart?
SPEAKER_00What comes after the heart is ecstasy, which is really the chicks chakras, and these waves are pure, I can't describe it, but it's indescribable because it takes waves of going up the spine, going into pure consciousness, going into a sense of total abandonment, and um it's ecstatic, totally ecstasy.
SPEAKER_01So many teachers and gurus refer and scriptures refer to these words, right? Ecstasy, bliss, um, as they are associated with awakening or enlightenment. But what you seem to be doing, and and I've watched as you've moved in and out of these states, you seem to be connecting them to the chakra system in an evolutionary way, you know, from pleasure to well-being to joy to ecstasy, to bliss, to ecstasy, yeah. And so we've gone from the root chakra to the hara to the heart, um, to the fifth and sixth, and then out the top. So somehow you are mapping these non-dual states um in this kind of energy system, kundalini system. But there are people who are not awake who would say they feel pleasure or well-being or joy. And so, what are these um in relation to ego states? How do they contrast as ego states?
SPEAKER_00Well, probably the one difference is the intensity. So without being pathological, like say somebody who's bipolar or takes drugs, um, these are natural states that are very intense. And as time goes on, um, they become more available and also um don't interfere with normal functioning. So I can be in an ecstatic state and be uh eating lunch or uh talking with another person, like I'm talking with you now. I'm in an ecstatic state. Right now, right now, so they become normalized and they're they have an intensity that's beyond description.
SPEAKER_01So, can you describe what you're experiencing right now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, pure ecstasy. I can experience it in the body, all the bodies. It's hard to describe an emotion, you know.
SPEAKER_01I'm attempting to but we're saying it's not an emotion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but it's emotion would be the best way to actually uh the closest to the way to describe it to ignorance, to somebody who's not awake.
SPEAKER_01Well, we're calling it a non-dual state, as opposed to you know, a peak experience that might have an emotion connected to it in which the ego grasps, oh, I want more. Oh, I hope it doesn't stop, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, but this is always available. Uh can occur and reoccur in the same hour, in the same day, in different days. This is not something that is not eternal, it's eternal, it's forever.
SPEAKER_01What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00It's it's eternal, it's never gonna go away, it's always gonna be available.
SPEAKER_01You mean the state is there after the body dies?
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_01What what does that mean?
SPEAKER_00That means that the state is the core of who we are, or these states of the core of who we are.
SPEAKER_01They're all non-dual states, they're all states of they're not dependent on the body-mind.
SPEAKER_00They're part of the celestial uh world, the world that's eternal, that all the gurus and enlightened beings and uh wake beings live in this state, this level.
SPEAKER_01So after you die and you're in your astral or mental body, you may still experience these states.
SPEAKER_00Yes, well, my understanding is that they will always be there. Okay, and and that's not the end, of course. There's radiance, which is pure non-dual radiating, no source, no dark, no object, no process, but radiance, radiance that I'm experiencing now, which is I mean, again, this is a blissful state, incredible bliss.
SPEAKER_01Be more specific, please.
SPEAKER_00Oh, my heart is torn open. I love everybody, I love everything. I I'm in joy just being, I'm in a state of wonderment. I can hardly sit still.
SPEAKER_01So radiance is that associated with the seventh chakra?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, it's a little past that. It's non-dual radiance because there's no subject or object or process, it just is. So, and it's it has no limits, it's unbounded.
SPEAKER_01So, is this what the gurus mean by darshan?
SPEAKER_00I don't know what that means.
SPEAKER_01Ah, so darshan is sitting in the presence of the guru as he's radiating his consciousness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there would be something like that.
SPEAKER_01And is radiance involved in transmission when teachers and students are giving and receiving Shakti?
SPEAKER_00There's no dua in this. This is more like if you're sitting with a person who is in radiance, you would feel uh something, you would feel joy, bliss, uh, excitement, awakefulness, you would feel something, and that's what a lot of people describe when they are sitting with in a room with an enlightened being.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but in that case, if the teacher is doing something intentional, like Shaktipad or something, then it's not non-dual.
SPEAKER_00No, there's no intentionality, it's just being in the presence.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Is there anything else you want to add to this exploration of non-dual states?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is something we haven't covered before because it's it's not about cognition, it's not about awareness, it's not about feelings. Yeah, it's more related to feelings than it is to uh awareness. Oh, it's not a feeling, it's related to a feeling.
SPEAKER_01And it sounds like they're more sensory. I mean, when you experience nectar in your mouth, it's a sensory experience.
SPEAKER_00The sweetest honey that you've ever tasted. It's like the pure bliss in the mouth, mouth watering.
SPEAKER_01And for no reason, you we don't know what triggers it or what when it why it comes and goes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, there are times where I don't have these states, they're not always there, they come and they go, um, but they're always available with intention.
SPEAKER_01So if you move your attention to pleasure or joy or bliss or ecstasy, you can kind of tune into that channel.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_01It's like tuning the radio.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_01If these states are there, even when we're not in a body-mind, they're just there eternally, then they're kind of like a frequency that we can tune into when our subtle bodies become conscious enough to tune in.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that would describe them. They're always there, they are by the nature of the divine. That the divine is always in existence, always present, always everywhere, always unbounded.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's why these states don't depend on an individual, a teacher, a nervous system, because they're pre-existing, they pre-exist us.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_01Right. We could call them radio stations, right?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So you're a tuning fork.
SPEAKER_00It's like that.
SPEAKER_01You become a tuning fork for these various frequencies, and luckily your physical, astral, mental, buddhic, celestial bodies are strong enough that they can actually receive the frequencies.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and in fact, they become stronger and stronger with practice and time, with the unfoldment of the consciousness that uh that is there. So um I had bliss awareness um 30 years ago. I had it in my last lifetime or between lifetimes, so it's not like it doesn't exist, but the intensity has uh has increased it enormously.
SPEAKER_01So is there anything you want to add that might help people to make this useful information?
SPEAKER_00Yes, meditate, meditate, meditate. Let yourself open up to what the nature of reality is, which is not suffering. It's uh it's bliss, it's joy, it's ecstasy, it's radiance. Let yourself go there. Much more interesting and enjoyable than suffering.
SPEAKER_01Okay, thank you. Thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_00Bye bye.