Dr. Neil's Spiritual Awakening to Non-Duality
NEW EPISODES THE 1st OF EVERY MONTH
You may have heard about spiritual awakening. Do you know someone who is living it? Join us as Dr. Neil Schuitevoerder describes the lived experience of an advanced stage of human consciousness and shares insight for seekers of all traditions. Dr. Neil will speak from the direct experience of Being, Brahman, Sunyata, or Pure Consciousness as he transmits Non-dual Reality to you -- non-dual space/time, non-dual thinking, non-dual love, the non-dual body, and his yogic abilities to travel the cosmos, move through the bardos and, at the same time, live as a psychologist, husband, father, and grandfather. His experience dispels many myths about awakening. He will be interviewed by his partner, Dr. Connie Zweig, author of Meeting the Shadow, Romancing the Shadow, Meeting the Shadow on the Spiritual Path, and the award-winning book The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul.
Dr. Neil's Spiritual Awakening to Non-Duality
Exploring Higher States of Emotion
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Dr. Neil describes the higher emotions that arose before and after his awakening:
well-being in the physical and subtle bodies, nectar in the mouth, blissful equanimity, dynamic waves of ecstasy, and rapture or non-dual samadhi. He points out that these states are now available to him at will, with and without dualistic functioning in the world, as he works and speaks with people. The last state alone does not allow him to operate in duality.
Greetings. Welcome back to the podcast. Today we're going to explore higher emotions, emotional states that arise with awakening. We know from Ken Wilbur that we can experience any state in any stage of development. So we could certainly pop into one of these states in a lower stage, especially with a runner's high or psychedelic trip. But what we're going to focus on now is Neil's experience of how these unfolded with his awakening in a spiritual context. So let's get started, Dr. Neil?
SPEAKER_00So what are we talking about here? We're we're talking about happiness? No. We're talking about uh sadness, joy? No. We're talking about things that are beyond that. And many people have spontaneous highs. So running, they have an endorphin high, or they have a serotonin high, or no epinephrine. They have some um great sex, get get a high out there. So this is not the same as those. This is something that involves with consciousness, and for me, opened up before I was awake this lifetime. Last lifetime I was awake, and I did go to Brahman Loka bliss, bliss consciousness state, heaven we may call it. So I did have that behind me. And so when I within you within me. In my teenage years, late teenage years, I began to experience blissful states, meditation, and uh that opened the door. And so I can talk more about that.
SPEAKER_01So you mentioned to me that sort of the foundational state is well-being in the body.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, these are all non-dual states we're going to be talking about. Non-dual in the sense that there's no subject, there's no object, and there's no process. These things just exist as part of consciousness. So uh all these states are non-dual. Um, although they may start off not being non-dual, but they develop into that. Um, so the first one I think is a sense of well-being, and you said in the body, but it's in all bodies. Uh it's the natural body, the mental body, the bodic body, the atomic body, the celestial body, non-dual awareness. So it's um it's a sense of well-being, almost like how to describe it. Everything's okay. Everything feels good, like having a beautiful night's sleep and waking up feeling great. So and but it's a general feeling that exists on all levels and um and comes with waking up.
SPEAKER_01And so if we're not in touch with our subtle bodies, how do we know there's well-being in the astral or mental body?
SPEAKER_00You don't unless you're in touch with it, but um, you can generally start off by feeling it in the physical body. So right now I'm experiencing it as part of the speech. So the mouth is speaking, and I'm not identified with it. And there's a sense of well-being that goes with it, it's embodied, and it's uh part of pure consciousness, and it's non-dual.
SPEAKER_01So I can experience well-being. Maybe people can relate to this when I put these conditions on it, like I'm rested, I've eaten well, I've meditated well, I'm in harmony with you, I'm enjoying my work or whatever I'm doing. And there's a sense that kind of mother is at home in my body. No pain, no discomfort, just a sense of wellness.
SPEAKER_00Right. Now imagine if you could have that anytime you wanted, not because you are rested or because you ate well, or because you were happy, but a sense that you can connect with this intrinsic part of yourself that is has well-being, and feels good about life and yourself.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so you're saying it's inherently present, but then we put these conditions on it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, if you're identified with your body, identified with your personality, so some things you know you you evoke for happiness, for sadness, well-being. You actually evoke those things and repress this state in general in your life, besides that.
SPEAKER_01Oh, because we're triggering ordinary emotions, the well-being is in the shadow.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So once we're taking the ride.
SPEAKER_00Once the body is quieter and the mind is still and the soul is expanded, and one is being pure awareness. So these states that don't have any limit to them. They're not they're not bound by form, like it's not just well-being in the body, it's well-being because I'm happy, well-being because I'm sad. Yeah, I can be in grief or in pain and still have well-being.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And those emotions are also there.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I got you. So then what was the next higher emotion that emerged?
SPEAKER_00Well, the next one I'd like to share, and obviously, these orders are not always exactly linear because it's non-dual. It's what I call nectar. Nectar is a taste in the mouth, begins in the mouth. It's the sweetest taste that you can imagine. It's um pure love. And it's in the mouth and it spreads to all from there to everywhere. Um, it is always everywhere, but it's it seems to focus itself initially in the mouth, or did for me when I was 19 or 20 in the mouth, and now is always available.
SPEAKER_01So this may be unfamiliar to people that you have a certain sweetness in your mouth because of your spiritual practice. Can you say more about it?
SPEAKER_00Well, I had kundalini rising upwards, and uh I was doing intense practices, and I noticed that my tongue connected with my upper palate, and that there was a sense of sweetness that was profound and and grew. In India, they have a um a practice where they cut the under the under part of the tongue.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so that the tongue can go all the way back, and that nectar can be uh moved into the head.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, it's a hatha yoga practice.
SPEAKER_00It's a hatha yoga practice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the tongue touches as far back as possible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so this is for me, my tongue doesn't need to go anywhere. So it's present and it's it's really uh beyond well-being.
SPEAKER_01It's uh You said it's like honey.
SPEAKER_00It's honey, it's glorious. It's it's uh even if you don't like sweet things, it's whatever you like taste-wise. It's like hard to imagine a sweeter taste, a more joyful taste. Okay, so and I think that was opened up by the kundalini.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so we're calling that an emotional, a higher emotion, and it sounds more like a sensation. Does it have an emotional quality? It is happiness, it is happiness, it's pleasure.
SPEAKER_00It's kind of like somebody rolled you up into a multi-orgasmic experience where you have this sort of full body sweetness. So it's when one moment.
SPEAKER_01In what?
SPEAKER_00One moment, one moment, and it's constant, it's it's uh it's always there.
SPEAKER_01Okay. What's the next one?
SPEAKER_00The next one I'd like to share is bliss. So bliss is very familiar because as in I said in my last lifetime, I was in bliss, bliss consciousness after I died. And so it started with uh the nectar experience in the mouth and moved into the heart, and then the body, and then all bodies. Oh, your bodies, all my bodies, the astral body, mental body, all the bodies, and it's non now, it's non-dual. In other words, it has no subject or object, it's just pure radiant bliss. And it's not happiness or joy, it's way beyond that. Getting used to it is important because it's like taking a drug that's very powerful, and one can be lost in it. Now many people who get lost in bliss get addicted to it. So being used to it or accommodating it and still functioning is important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, when we were in India, we saw all these people on the streets who looked very blissed out, but they weren't functional.
SPEAKER_00No. The functionality is key. So um, so being grounded and being able to be high like that at the same time is is is important. And I'm experiencing that now. While I'm talking, um totally blissed out.
SPEAKER_01And how about when you're seeing clients?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I can be in the state, or I can be in ordinary dual consciousness. That is always available as well, the dual consciousness. And so it all depends on what's needed in the moment. I I don't believe that one needs to stay in this state perpetually. I left it for a reason, and that was that it's addictive and one stops growing if one is always happy and always ecstatic, bliss in bliss. So, what's the point of actually trying to do anything new? It's kind of like uh heroin addict.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's risky, it has it has dangerous potential.
SPEAKER_00Right. So I'm I I want to be free of all states, and that's my identity. When I was asked uh recently, who are you? And I answer that I'm free. I'm free from any state.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was it was defined awakening, and you said freedom.
SPEAKER_00That's correct.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay, so free of all states. So what I'm hearing you say is you have access to these states, but you're not identified with them.
SPEAKER_00I'm not identifying them because different circumstances open up different needs. So, you know, there's a time to be very serious and a time to be ecstatically happy. And you know, being able to be ecstatically happy most of the time is valuable, but not all the time.
SPEAKER_01Right, at a funeral.
SPEAKER_00Yes, would be inappropriate, right?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I'm thinking of Satch Ananda, you know, in Vedanta Indian philosophy, Ananda refers to bliss, and it's kind of taught that it's the nature of conscious, it's one of the qualities of consciousness.
SPEAKER_00Right. I would I would look at it as the next thing I'm gonna talk about, which is not just being conscious and bliss, but ecstasy. I think that's uh a better way to look at this state. So bliss is kind of humming humming along in in a it's it's not a wave, it's a flat line. It's a constant state whereas ecstasy is like waves of energy moving, uh ecstatic states.
SPEAKER_01So it's dynamic.
SPEAKER_00It's dynamic. Uh I guess orgasm would be something like that. And this is like orgasm in different parts of the body and different parts of the consciousness, all happening one after the other.
SPEAKER_01And when did that start happening?
SPEAKER_00Also, when I um when I was younger and uh I was meditating four or five hours a day, and I just tremendous couple of leading experiences that opened it up, but now it's it's uh always available on as long as I put attention there.
SPEAKER_01So you can go into well-being or nectar or bliss or ecstasy at will?
SPEAKER_00Yes. There are times where it's difficult, and I have to focus and pay pay a bit more attention to it, but but in general, it's available.
SPEAKER_01And can you function in ecstasy?
SPEAKER_00I'm in ecstasy now, so I'm functioning. I think what happens is as one accommodates it, you get used to it, and it becomes normal. And part of the reason for me coming back this lifetime into a body was to um to normalize these uh experiences that are not just bliss on a flat line, which was what I had before.
SPEAKER_01Normalize meaning integrate them into duality, integrate them into functioning, like to functioning, in other words, be in ecstasy and functioning at the same time.
SPEAKER_00So one can imagine being in ecstasy and not functioning quite easily. You know, most people have had this experience somewhere in their life where they have some ecstatic eye, whether it's sex, whether it's psychedelics, psychedelics, whether it's some kind of drug experience, but they're not functional. They can function on an everyday level. So getting used to these states is important. And there's one more which I I um would like to share, which is a rapture. Rapture is a term that's used by Christians generally, but I'm not using it in that context. This is a state that there's no awareness of the physical body or any other body. It's like swimming in an ocean of non-duality. There's no there's no subject, object, or process. It's just being taken on a wave when one has no control or no intentionality. One is moved through stages of extreme joy.
SPEAKER_01So, I mean, it's reminding me of the what we called samadhi states, the teachers in India who look like they're blacked out. You know, their eyes roll back and they're unaware of their surroundings, and they look like they're in bliss, right? But they're not functioning.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, you're not functioning in rapture. It's not a functional state. Um, and I don't spend too much time in it because of that.
SPEAKER_01So maybe this is Nirvakalpa Samadhi or some of the states that are described in the mystical scriptures.
SPEAKER_00Right. So most of the states are described in terms of cognitive uh structures or uh way of mapping it. But this is this feels more like um an ocean of waves or hard to describe because it's not a normal experience. I think the only people who could actually relate to that who are not deep meditatives would be somebody who's been on heavy-duty drugs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I think most of our listeners have some sense, even if it's just from their studies.
SPEAKER_00Right, or maybe they have had some rapture.
SPEAKER_01Or maybe they have gone into a deep meditation where there's no mind, no thought, no awareness of the physical, no duality disappears. And it's blissful.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01It has that quality.
SPEAKER_00So I wanted to talk about this because in previous podcasts we've spoken about experiences, awareness, levels, but not the state of well-being to ecstasy, to rapture. We haven't spoken of those states. So but I think those are really important parts of waking up.
SPEAKER_01So we're calling them higher emotions, but they're really states that are have uh this affective quality, this emotional quality to them.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Which some people will experience in different stages of development, depending on you know their sources of high, right? Sources of getting high. And it seems to me that there is this natural instinctual longing in human beings to get high. And it's part of what motivates us, you know, to eat chocolate or get addicted to morphine or meditate, as you said, you know, four, five, six hours, or like I did, six-month meditation retreat. It's this longing to alter our state.
SPEAKER_00To go home, home to a place that is more than happy, more than blissful, more than just high.
SPEAKER_01More than a temporary high.
SPEAKER_00More than temporary and accessible, you know, accessible as part of life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. So let's check back in with where you are right now, given we've been talking about your state before we end.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm feeling ecstatic. So it's a deep sense of ecstasy. Uh, but this is available uh to everybody. This is not personal, this is the state of pure consciousness, this is the state of non-dual awareness. And there are techniques and tools to get you there. It's it's a scientific path now. It's been described by many people in many ways. So I would like you all to actually have this if you don't have it already.
SPEAKER_01Okay, thank you for listening.
SPEAKER_00Bye bye.