Dave Loosley

Dave Loosely, fresh from his victory as the Magic Circle Close-Up Magician of the Year 2025, reveals his definitive list in this captivating conversation about the effects that truly matter.

Dave begins by taking us behind the scenes of his competition-winning act, sharing how he meticulously crafted each moment to appeal to both lay judges and magicians alike. "Everything was in there to try and win the competition," he explains, describing the intense six-month preparation process that consumed him in pursuit of perfection.

His desert island selections paint a fascinating portrait of a magician who finds extraordinary magic in ordinary objects. From his signature routine “Squash”, where a bottle cap impossibly penetrates a deck of cards and emerges flattened, to his theatrical adaptation of the Needle Through Balloon that serves as both comedy ‘bit’ and spectacular finale, each choice reflects Dave's philosophy that the most powerful magic happens when spectators connect with recognisable items.

Particularly revealing is Dave's discussion of performance structure and creating multiple moments of wonder within a single routine. Whether it's his adaptation of Paper Balls Over Head that fools both volunteer and audience with different restorations, or his coin transposition "Envision" that delivers three magical moments in quick succession, Dave demonstrates why being a great magician requires being a thoughtful theatrical artist first.

Beyond the tricks themselves, this episode offers valuable insights into professional magic, how to create "kickback" moments where reality shifts unexpectedly, why certain effects withstand the test of time, and the importance of finding your own handling for commercial tricks. Dave's thoughtful reflections on how each effect shaped his journey make this essential listening for anyone passionate about the art of magic.

Dave's Desert Island Tricks: 

1. Squash 
2. The Magicians Matchbox 
3. Harmonica Chop Cup
4. Envision 
5. No Tear Paper Balls 
6. Needle Through Balloon 
7. Bill in Egg / Wallnut / Lemon 
8. Four Nightmare 

Banishment. Magic Ego’s and Cliques 

Book. Rune’s World 

Item. Drum Set 

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

Chapters

• 1:34 Winning the Magic Circle Competition
• 2:21 Introduction to Dave Lucelli
• 4:00 Competition Strategy and Preparation
• 10:04 Desert Island Trick #1: Squash
• 21:46 Desert Island Trick #2: Magician's Matchbox
• 29:23 Desert Island Trick #3: Harmonica Chop Cup
• 36:24 Desert Island Trick #4: Envision
• 51:19 Desert Island Trick #5: Paper Balls Over Head
• 1:01:16 Desert Island Trick #6: Needle Through Balloon
• 1:15:59 Desert Island Trick #7: Bill in Lemon
• 1:23:02 Desert Island Trick #8: Four Nightmare Rope Routine
• 1:25:37 Banishment and Final Items

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:20

Yeah, it was amazing to stand up there and well, I won't say get the trophy, because trophies cause a little bit of controversy amongst the magic community, but it was more the accolade that I was really proud of. So I don't think I'd ever do it again, because it was my stressful half a year Only, because I set the bar high for myself and I think you know you just want it to be perfect, don't you? And with that it consumed me for six months of the year. But yeah, it was amazing. I'm really happy I've done it and, who knows, I might look at the stage one in a couple of years' time. But it was a fantastic night.

Speaker 2: 2:22

Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Today we have a guest which I'm sure you already know, and if you don't know him, then you absolutely have been living under a rock, because he is the current Magic Circle Close-Up Magician of the Year. Oh, that is a big accolade, if ever there was one. He now looks very. It's a bit like when someone gives you a really big build up before a show and then you walk on and you're like well, I hope that everyone's not disappointed. You definitely will not be disappointed.

Speaker 2: 2:56

He is one of the most creative magicians I've ever known and I've had the opportunity to see him throughout the years performing tons of different places From the West End. I saw him in a great show in the West End, which apparently he's doing again, so I have to get tickets for that which was superb. I've seen him at the Magic Circle. He's really great at thinking up not only just really clever tricks but also really clever presentations. He really puts a lot of thought into the theatrics and the performance side of magic just as much as the clever methods. So I know you're going to absolutely love this episode. I'm really excited to finally get him on here. We've been trying for a little while. Of course it is Mr Dave Lucelli.

Speaker 1: 3:40

Oh, thank you, mate. Thank you for that lovely introduction. That's very kind, mate. Thank you for having me. This is an awesome concept. I think I've listened to every episode of this. So, yeah, I appreciate you having me here to talk through, and it was a lot of fun trying to, you know, put it down to just eight as well.

Speaker 2: 4:02

So talk to me about the Magic Circle Close-Up Magician of the Year. Did any of your tricks from that make it in your top eight?

Speaker 1: 4:06

oh, what do you? What do you think?

Speaker 2: 4:08

I'm gonna say no okay, I think, okay, I think you yeah. No, I don't think it would, because I think that I've seen you perform certain tricks throughout the years quite regularly, so I would say that a couple of those have to be in there. But I also know that you're a massive fan of tricks and collecting tricks, so I reckon that there's going to be one or two curveballs in there that maybe we weren't expecting. I also think there's probably a couple of classic tricks in there as well, ones that really got you when you were younger. I think there'd be a decent range of different tricks it's interesting because obviously there's a lot of different routes.

Speaker 1: 4:50

You could go with this, you know, and I could have done all eight on my working repertoire, because there's stuff that I genuinely do not ever want to be reacting without um, and then I could have done eight on some of the the things that got me into Magic and got me to where I am now. But I think there's a mix here. I think quite a few of these you'll probably. If you were playing a loose-selly bingo then I reckon you would have a few of these on your bingo list. But yeah, there's one there. I don't think you would possibly know, let alone think I have. But it's going to be fun going through okay.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Well, it would be remiss of me not to talk to you very briefly about the recent competition that you partook in. It was that little thing, what was it? It was like a beach side competition, something little. No one really knew about it, but I think it went down really really well. Uh, yeah, so it was the the magic circle, uh, close-up competition. How did you find it? Tell us about it in in the lead up to it. Yeah thanks.

Speaker 1: 5:58

Um, so it. I absolutely loved it, right? So let's start very briefly from the beginning, because I entered, I think, 2019 and with just a mindset of wanting to showcase some magic. I came third in that and Brendan Rodriguez won it, and, yeah, quite rightly so. You know, I shouldn't have won it that year, or, in my opinion, maybe not even placed, because it it was a small amount of magic. Yes, I was going for sort of an original look, but there wasn't loads of tricks in it. So I wanted to re-enter it.

Speaker 1: 6:33

Uh, this year, and I took a completely different approach. You know, I I really dissected what it was the competition was looking for. You know the fact that there was two. Well, on the night there was two, but it should have been three lay judges, three magic judges. The criteria, you know, I didn't even look at it, I don't think. The first time I did it. This time I really dissected the criteria of what they were going to be marking on, and it took me a good month to kind of work out what I wanted to do. And then from there, it was another four to five months of working it and polishing it and changing it, and I think I sent you multiple videos of like day one to then midway through, and it changed massively, but all with the mindset that I wanted to win the competition.

Speaker 1: 7:23

This time. With the mindset that I wanted to win the competition this time and, uh, I think a big thing I did this time I didn't do last time were the repetitions, the, the, the practice, and I must have rehearsed it about 100 times. But everything in there was meticulously in there to try and win the competition. So I knew there were lay judges, so trick one and the ending were for delay, because it allowed me to do my characters come out. The middle section were for, was for magicians, which was the section with the portable holes, um, and the box and all of that.

Speaker 1: 7:57

So, yeah, when it got to the actual day of doing it, I had the reps in, so much I was still, if you ask the other competitors, I was still set up in the changing room running through reps, even just before I was going down to go on, and I think that's just because I wanted it to run how it was in my mind, and the only way to do that is to get the practice in. When I got down there then it was just like enjoy it really, and although my mindset was to win it when it was released, who else I was going up against? Then? I was just sort of like I'm just going to go and enjoy it Because I mean, every single one of them deserved to win. It was at that point that I go, I've done what I can do, so now it's down to the judges. And if I just go out there and enjoy myself, hopefully the audience will, um, and yeah, that's what happened.

Speaker 1: 8:54

And yeah, it was amazing that you know to stand up there and um, and well, I won't say get a trophy, because trophies cause a little bit of controversy amongst the uh, the magic community and um, but it was more the accolade that I was really proud of. So, yeah, I uh don't think I'd ever do it again because it was. It was my stressful half a year, you know, um, only because you know I set the bar high for myself and I think you know you just want it to be perfect, don't you? But? And with that it consumed me for six months of the year. But yeah, it was amazing. I'm really happy I've done it and, who knows, I might look at the stage one in a couple of years time. But yeah, no, it was. It was a fantastic night.

Speaker 2: 9:39

And let's talk about the tricks very briefly. So why? Why did you go down that road? What was it about the portable whole idea? What was it about the whole concept that that made you go down that route with those particular effects?

Speaker 1: 9:54

it's very interesting to say that, like when you start with a blank canvas, you, I suppose, you start with something that you you feel is uh different or a little bit sort of technically there for magicians and for me anyway, I started with the middle and then I went to the beginning and ending knowing that that stuff, that is my bread and butter, that I can walk in and no matter how dead the room is. I know that with my color change deck opener is very quick and snappy. It's right there in people's eyes and it grabs their attention and it gets my character across very quickly in what is a one minute trick. So I was like that has to be the opener because also it's there for magicians. It's instead of a color changing deck happening just once. And this is the mystique color changing deck that I put out with Alakazam many years ago now, and the the original bit with it is it happens in stages. So when you're looking at the first stage, that's changed and they look back at the hand and the cards in the hand have changed and then the box goes rather than it just being the cards are going. So what that allowed me to do was have the concept of you know I'm going to start by just seeing how observant you are as a crowd, an observation game for you. So now, instead of saying pick a card, sign a card, because you don't know how many card tricks are going to be in a competition. So I tried to stay away from card tricks in in competitions just because of that and uh. So I was like, right, if I put cards in, it's got to be quick and snappy. So that was why that went in. Um puts me across to the crowd. You know, get some comfortable. And then the whole middle section started from molecules, which was um.

Speaker 1: 11:42

Originally was a coin, a silver coin, that you can manipulate the particles and molecules of the coin to create and basically open your hand. It's a solid ball bearing that falls on the table, it manipulates back to being flat again and it just plays with these weird elements. I then worked on it in a different way and I played with it with a flat eight ball and a small eight ball, so it was a key ring sized eight ball for Paul and that would flatten down and again then go back big again. So that was originally. I was like I want that to be in there, but I want to just sort of adapt it a bit more so it plays bigger and there's more moments with these little black holes and from there it really is.

Speaker 1: 12:29

You know you talk about standing on the shoulders of giants and all that sort of stuff, but collaboration is one of the most important things, I think, especially when you're devising routines, because I've got a close-knit you know number of friends that I'll send the videos to, and that act was very, very different four months prior, very different, and just by getting people's opinions on what looks good and what didn't, it shapes the act to be what it was really. And would I take it to FISM? Would it win at FISM? Absolutely not, because the concept is different. And it was interesting because I heard a few things for the grapevine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Speaker 1: 13:10

You know people were saying that um, you know, if the lay judges weren't there, then I probably wouldn't have won, right. So I would take that and I would. You know what I'd say to that yeah, probably right. And the reason I would say that is because I knew the lay judges were going to be there and that's why I put the act together, how it was to get those points from the lay judges. If it was going to fizz them, possibly the card trick might be in there.

Speaker 1: 13:35

I'm not sure. But the last trick I did with the ropes definitely wouldn't be in there, because that isn't well, it's my handling of an effect, but it's a shot ball effect, right, but it had reasoning to be in the magic circle act because it was aiming at the lay people as well as the little bits at the end which threw the magicians off. So everything had its place and it wasn't that I just grabbed three tricks. You know, over the whole six months it changed a lot and there were elements that didn't make it in. That that could have. But yeah it, it's a good question. I could go on ages, I don't want to bore people about it, but, um, yeah, there was definitely thought behind it.

Speaker 2: 14:18

Put it that way well, I think that's that's the key point. There is that if you're going to enter a competition, you have to think about the circumstance of that competition, who you're performing to, why you're there, the environment that you're in and the fact that you catered it to that specific environment, to that specific audience. That's probably something that really, really helped. But if you were to give anyone some advice so just one piece of advice before we get to your list, a piece of advice if they want to enter that competition what would that one piece of advice be?

Speaker 1: 14:53

Well, ultimately just give it a go because you've got the sifting process. I think it was 16 magicians that sent in their application videos and very quickly you realize you know, if you don't make it through the SIFT, then you just re-look at what you've done and you take the good points and you move them forward and you try again next year. I think that there is absolutely no harm in trying, obviously just understand you're going to. You could, when you open the email, see five or six other names that are a huge and go, oh my god, what am I doing in this competition? But ultimately they wouldn't. You wouldn't get through to that last stage if they didn't feel you were worthy of being there, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 15:36

So I honestly would say you've got nothing to lose. If you make it through that first stage of the, the sift um, to to the final, then you're worthy to be there. If you don't, no one needs to know about it. And ultimately, what you got to lose you know. So get a concept of an idea, have a play with it and you've got absolutely nothing to lose by putting that video in and lots to gain if you do get through. If you don't. It's a learning process and trust me, I've been knocked down many times and I've got back up and it's better and stronger than it was before, so just give it a go would be my advice well, it was a great evening.

Speaker 2: 16:18

I watched it live and I thought you were very much deserving um. So well done again. But we are here for a particular reason, and that's because we are about to maroon you, dave, on your very own desert island. When you're there, you're allowed to take eight tricks. Banish one item, take one book and one non-magic item that you use for magic. Any particulars like who's there, what's there, we do not mind, it exists in your imagination. So, with that being said, let's find out, dave, what you put in your first position.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Okay so position number one, I'm going to start out the gate with, um, one of my effects. They're not all my effects, I can tell you that, but do you know what? There are a few in here just because, why not? They are things that I don't want to be without. So, um, this first one, I think it holds more sort of close to my heart than anything else really, and this was the first ever trick I I released and ultimately, at the same time, something that is still in my working set today and that is called squash.

Speaker 1: 17:20

So squash was an effect inspired by a Mark Shortland trick where you have four different coloured cars, toy cars, that he would squash. Basically, they'd pick a colour, pick a card, sign. The card card goes back in the pack. They pick a toy car and that toy car gets slammed down into the pack, spread through and on the back of a card is like a squashed animated car of that colour, and then you turn it over. It'd be the sign card. You push it out and the car would now come back out the card into their hands and it would no longer be on the back of their sign card. So I saw this when I was in the Young Magicians Club and I was sort of heading towards 17 years old, I think around about that time when you know alcohol was cool. It's not cool Kids don't drink but to me at that point I decided that a toy car was not cool enough for me and so I decided to look at it as the similar effect, but play with bottle caps. So my effect is they pick a card sign. The card gets replaced back in the pack. You pick up a bottle cap off the floor or wherever it might be, place into your hand, hold your hand over the deck and then slam your hand down into the deck. Bottle cap has gone. As you spread through, you now see, animated in the back of a card, a bottle cap has gone. As you spread through, you now see, animated in the back of a card, a bottle cap. Turn it over, it's a signed card. Get them to cut their hands. And now you bring the card away and you sort of bend the card up and down and now when you push it out, that cap that went in solid normal cap now comes out crushed, as it looks in the picture. So not only have you got the moment of it being in the card, but now its form has changed and they can keep the, the squash cap and the card.

Speaker 1: 19:16

For me, this is just. It's one of my top close-up effects, because it never stops getting good reactions. And we're talking oh god, how many years are doing getting good reactions? And we're talking oh God, how many years are we doing this? Now? I mean, if we're looking at the Young Jiu-Jitsu Club, it's got to be near on 20 years that I've been playing around with this idea and it still gets that great reaction Ultimately, on the desert island as well. It gives me beer as well, so I'm not going to be without. I need the beer to get the bottle caps right. So I've got, um, got a great one for being on a desert island. But also, if I was showing this, if I had just this effect, I know that by showing it to somebody I'm going to get a great reaction. And it's also that every time I do it, it's that little feeling inside me.

Speaker 2: 20:01

You go oh, I love this trick, you know so I couldn't not be on a on a desert island without squash well, I think it's probably my favorite of your tricks of all time, because I remember getting it when I was younger and I just thought it's the perfect restaurant bar trick to do, because it does use the bottle cap. But it's also just that moment where they push out the squash cap at the end. It's something completely alien to them and if you make enough of them up, just hand them this impossible gift to keep for forever yeah, yeah, and I do, you know.

Speaker 1: 20:35

You hear me walking down the street with clinking bottle caps if I'm going to do a gig, because it's weird, right, I've had people ask me to sign them. I've had people at repeat bookings bring them out their wallet. Last time you did this and all it is is Mr Lucelli over here in his garden smashing a few bottle caps with a hammer, you know, and flattening them down. But these are things that people keep, you know. So who am I to say, you know, I'll continue to do that until I can't get bottle caps anymore.

Speaker 1: 21:06

And actually it came with Coca-Cola Sprite as well, so it didn't have to be, but I think it was Stella Artois at the time and Budweiser as well. So, yeah, it was one of those effects. It was my first introduction to Alakazam, not as a shop, but it was working. I knew of Al alexander before that and, uh, how that came about is another story, uh, but yeah, I don't think it'd be fair for me to do this list about having what kind of really started and started to put my name out there as well, and that's squash well, that's a great opening gambit and leads us nicely into number two.

Speaker 2: 21:44

So what did you put in your second spot?

Speaker 1: 21:46

Okay. So this one is my all-time favourite little ten-year trick and it has to go in there because there's nothing better than when you're bored or you need a little bit of inspiration. It's going to a ten-year effect and effectively a little toy that you can play with to basically pass time. This is a great little trick, but the way it works and the toy in it is what really? Why it's making it to the desert island, because I'll tell you what it is in a second. But it's that moment you know when it happens itself and you go. I don't really understand how this is happening, but it is happening. It's really cool. And so it's called the Magician's Matchbox and it's by Tenyo. And if you're unaware of it, in effect you've got a little matchbox and on the back of it, printed is like a picture of a, of a gift present, and it's tied up with a bow. Um, as you open now, the patter can be whatever you want it to be right, because it's such a left wing effect. Um, but you could say, magicians, they make rabbits appear, they make doves appear and they use magic wands to do so. So I've got a little magic wand here and you push the, you open the mouth of the matchbox, you remove a match and what that does is obviously, if you imagine, I've I've pushed the the mouth of the matchbox open so you can see the matches. That makes a little gap in the top, uh, that you could put your finger down into. So there's a little gap in the top of the inside insert of the matches and then the box around the outside. So I remove a little wand, aka a match, and I tap it on the top of that match box and now, when I close the the inside, what you see is a tiny little dove, like a little plastic dove, appear as you push that inside back up. So you remove the little dove, place it on the table, go again, push down, remove another one, tap again and this time you get a little plastic bunny rabbit. And honestly, when you see how it works, you go what Like the way it works, it just works right, the mechanism just does it for you. And then the best bit is that you then say and obviously these had to come from somewhere, I don't have a magician's hat, but I did have that gift that was tied up and as you turn it around now, the ribbon is open, the box is off the gift and it's and it's printed on the matchbox so they can see, they can rub it, it's not changing and it really is just one of those effects that absolutely blew my mind.

Speaker 1: 24:28

I think these were the days of davenport's, when I, when I used to shop in there before I demmed in there and, um, I think it was something like 18 pounds or something it was quite a lot of money to myself at that time and, uh, I didn't really know what I was gonna get because these things just kept appearing. I was like, how's that? How's he changed the picture? I don't understand. Before I sort of understood those sort of principles and, um, when I got it, I was not disappointed. It was just one of those effects that and I still have it to this day and I keep it in a little box because I never want to lose it and I know that now with Tenyo stuff it's probably hundreds of pounds, but I have to take it with me on a desert island because again with it it takes a load of sort of memories from my childhood. I used to show that trick to everyone and I love it. So, yeah, magician's Matchbox by Tenyo.

Speaker 2: 25:26

It's funny how many Tenyo tricks we're getting in everyone's list. It does seem to be a sort of staple. Now, what's interesting about your selection, rather, is that normally we get Crystal Cleaver and Invisible Zone. Those tend to be the two main Tenyo ones, so it's really interesting that you've gone for this one. Do you collect other Tenyo tricks? So would there nearly have been other ones on your list.

Speaker 1: 25:54

Yeah, absolutely. When I say collect, I'm not collecting the fact that I've never opened the packaging, and that's probably much to my you. You know I could probably go make a load of money out of the ones I've got, but it's not for that. I, you know, I've been collecting playing cards for years and recently I've gone to. Why am I not opening these and just getting the experience of opening that deck of cards and enjoying playing with them? Because if I don't, no one will like. I leave them to who? You know, my boy, might they do the same. But what's the point? We buy these because we want to play with them and tenyo is. Is that if I got a tenyo effect, ultimately it's being open, it's being used and it's being shown to people.

Speaker 1: 26:35

Um, I wish I knew the name of it. I wasn't prepped with the name for this one, but the other one that would have made it for me was the the dice, the eight dice that come out of the. For me was the? The dice, the eight dice that come out of the, the little stack, the little holder which only holds four. Again, the method behind that is just. It's just brilliant. Um, if you haven't seen it, it's a little. What would you call it? A little tower, tiny little plastic tower which just about holds four dice At the fingertips. You hold it at the side and you lift it up and you see four dice. You place it back down. Only four dice can fit in there, a bit like if you're doing multiplying bottles. You lift the thing up, you see the bottle, you put it back down. So this is the same thing. You see four dice, it goes back down. And then you lift this little tower up, just so it's hovering halfway on the fourth dice off the table, and then you continue to lift a little bit more and you get a fifth dice, and you lift a little bit more, you get a sixth and then a seventh and then an eighth. And then when you remove you, you take that little uh tower, plastic tower, and you place it on the table and now they can't put those dice back inside. It literally is just a little plastic rectangle tower, and now you've just made four more dice appear. And again it's that the methodology behind it, the toy that you get.

Speaker 1: 28:00

You know if I'm right? I think Tenyo. Am I right in saying Tenyo is owned by Nintendo, or part owned by Nintendo. So Nintendo obviously is games, isn't it? And they're known for. I'm probably wrong now and Tenyo enthusiasts are going absolutely crazy at me, but my point is, these things that are magic tricks are sold as toys. You know back in there where they originate, so for us it's as a magician. It just ticks both boxes of wow, it's a magic trick, but oh my god, that's a toy as well. Um, so I don't know if you're searching that, whether I'm right or wrong on that, but, um, I definitely know they did a collab with Angelo Carbone and Nintendo and created an amazing game with tricks. I know that happened, but something in me was saying that Nintendo owned them. But yeah, maybe I'm wrong on that.

Speaker 2: 28:57

Well, someone will tell us. Someone will tell us in the comments. There will be hate below, but that's fine.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Apologies in advance. Uh, I've not researched that information and I'm probably wrong, but um, I'm right about the angelo carbone bit, so you know well, I think that's a great one and that's a curveball one, so I wouldn't have put that on your list.

Speaker 2: 29:18

So, yeah, that makes it a bit more interesting. So let's see where you go with number three.

Speaker 1: 29:22

So the number three for me is the harmonica chop cup by leo smetzers, and leo is I just love leo to bits he's such a great guy, but an awesome creator as well and what the harmonica chop cup is and I've had this conversation with him, so we'll get back on to that in a minute.

Speaker 1: 29:40

I'll just quickly explain what it is. So, in effect, if you've ever seen a camping cup like a silicone cup which, um, you could flat pack, so it pops open, almost like a couple of ridges pop open and you use it as a camping cup, um, and you can literally flat pack it back down and it looks like a little flat hockey puck disc and, um, in effect it's a chop cup and from that it just opens up so many awesome ways to handle it and the subtleties so that you can show it looks like you haven't got an extra ball. Really, you show your hand's empty. You've got a flat little hockey puck cap on it on your hand. It actually starts. I start with it inside the card box. So I said you know how many are in here? They say 52. I said no, just one. Have you seen one of these before? This is a camping cup. I'll show you what I mean. So it's flat pack in your hand, you pop it open and then I have a three-phase routine that I do basically with this uh, chop cup ending with an eight ball appearing inside the spectator's hand, and what I love is that you can play this up off the table and that moment the eight ball appears. The cup is not on the table or their hand. You lift it to show the eight ball. You actually hold the cup above their hand. Click your fingers twice on the second click. The eight ball drops out fuzz straight above their hand. Click your fingers twice On the second click the eight ball drops out fuzz straight into their hand. So it allows you to do holdouts through the cup as well, because obviously it's silicone.

Speaker 1: 31:14

I just I never had so many ideas and my brain was able to run with creativity when Leo showed me this, and it will go down as one of those effects that and I hate. You know, lots of people hate the saying. I don't know why. I love it. Packed small plays big, and it really does. You know, I've managed to travel to some cool places and this will always be one in my main luggage and one in my hold or just in case it goes missing. But if there's something that packs down that flat is, it has to be with me on the island, and it gives me a nice cup to drink my beer out of as well, doesn't it? Um, why not? But yeah, just back to the name.

Speaker 1: 31:55

Now I what's hilarious is the way that it. It folds down like an accordion. But, leo, I think it was just a, you know, language barrier. He's called it harmonica. But for years I believed that the accordion was a harmonica, because Leo convinced me I don't know why just because I called it so many times. So when I was talking to my friends, I go, yeah, you know, like you know, it packs down like a harmonica. What do you mean? Well, like it folds down like a harmonica, it goes you've got a heart, what do you mean a harmonica? I said, you know the big thing that they play and they back and forth and it makes that terrible noise. It's a harmonica because, david, harmonica is something you blow into it, mate. I went, oh my god, he's right. Yeah, he's right, leo. I was like, yeah, mate, I think it was accordion, you meant to call it, but but it was too late at this point.

Speaker 1: 32:46

It's like nearly a year on release and it's gone out, as you know, the harmonica chop cup. So, yeah, it's an amazing effect and everyone loves chop cup and I think, just to have a different take on it, and actually when I perform it you see it in my Penguin lecture I talk about literally going on a camping trip with my sisters when I was a kid and straight away you put a nice hook into a presentation. But also the cup backs up that hook because it's they have that visual moment of it and they can now relate oh, I've never seen a camping cup before. So yeah, it just suits my style. You know, if I was playing something like the Magic Circle well, actually, no, I've played that in Magic Circle, but maybe the castle or something like that, where you want that elegant look of that spun copper cup or that gold cup, yeah then great. But this is a working up um chop cup routine. And yeah, leo smetz's harmonica chop cup audio. Call you in, chop cut, whatever you want to call it I was going to say.

Speaker 2: 33:53

A lot of the magic that I've seen you do normally involves ordinary objects, so it's normally things that you would find around you every day. Even if you look at the Tenyo trick that you've chosen, out of all the Tenyo tricks that you could have taken, you've gone for an organic-looking prop right, it's the one with the matchbox. So is that why you went for this particular chop cup, because there's so many chop cups now around? Was it purely because it gave you that different concept, or was it just because it was organic?

Speaker 1: 34:25

That's a good question, mate, I think, because I you know, you know me as a collector of magic as well but it never stays, uh, in its packaging. It's always trying to be worked. So, yeah, of course I've gone around and I've worked and I've tried to work in, like, um, these nice spun cups, also the mini ones, the leather chopped cups. So I've tried to work, you know, work them all. But I just think with leo's one I never had that much.

Speaker 1: 34:55

With the others I didn't get what I got with that of this I can create this awesome, this story, this hook, and I think, yeah, the organic side of it does appeal to me a lot, and I think, subliminally as well, if you it's interesting you brought that up, actually, mate because when I think about it, yeah, there is a lot of the stuff I do that that tries to fall into that, that category, and I didn't think about that before, but I think possibly it's just because it adds that extra layer of wow. You know, if someone's seeing something with a, an item which is bought from the shop, versus an item they haven't seen before, there's, there's more of that connectivity, yes, but also subliminally, it's like, well, I could buy that in tesco. So I know there's nothing. It couldn't be gimmicked. Possibly, you know, and you can buy camping cups you actually can, they're only a few quid. But the fact that Leo's done what he's done with this one, it now takes something that they see on an everyday shelf and makes it for a magician to use.

Speaker 1: 35:59

So, yeah, that is a good point, mate. I think probably possibly subliminally. Yes, it's a good point, mate. I think probably possibly subliminally. Yes is the answer to your question, but I think, ultimately, I think it was the route that opened creatively that went oh, I can hide the first load doing this and I can now, you know, have that final load without knowing because of this. And so, yeah, I think it was probably a mixture, mate well, that leads us nicely onto number.

Speaker 1: 36:31

So fourth is another one of mine, but you haven't been able to get this for a very long time, but it's still the one that is my go-to, and that is Envision. So Envision is a coin transposition effect that basically happens on the back of the spectator's hand. So, to start, I show a silver coin, a copper coin. I talk about dreams. I put one coin in their hand. I show you the silver coin. It goes in my left hand. So have you ever had that dream where you're falling? You know, in the moment, just before you hit the bottom, you wake up in bed. You know, as a magician, I've had this reoccurring dream. It is very random. I've had this reoccurring dream. It is very random. I've stood over a money box with a coin and I drop that coin. In just seconds or moments before it touches the money box, it appears back in my hand. This dream went on all through the night until I woke up. So it's going to inspire what I'm about to show you now. So I basically give them two coins, one's inside the hand, one's on top of their hand, and I get them to focus on the coin that's on top of the hand. Let's say it's the silver coin. I take the pen. So, as a magician, we use items to misdirect. For example, if I pointed here, you'd look here and I'd point at my arm. We would never point at the moment when the magic's about to happen. And just imagine now they've got a silver coin on the back of their hand. I come down with the pen and I just tap and right in front of their eyes, visually it changes to the copper coin. So I show the pen, but you know there's nothing to be seen. I place it back in my pocket, I pick up the copper coin and now I say so, if I've got the copper coin inside your hand, you have. And as they turn their hand over, they open their hand, they have the copper coin. And now back in my hand is the silver coin. And I say it's that reoccurring dream. And I place that silver coin back onto their hand. Now, this, this now leads me in a position where I have a silver coin, a copper coin. They are ungimmicked and I'm ready to go into my next coin routine.

Speaker 1: 38:36

It had to go in there because of the visual side, and this is one of those ones again, that you perform it in the mirror and go oh my God, this is amazing. I just think for reputation makers, I've picked some here If I ever had to do. You know, people came onto the island and I had to do a show. I think so far, with everything I've got, there's not one of these that wouldn't leave them with a visual moment of magic and a moment where they go wow, and it kind of covers a bit of everything, because that then puts it in their hands. You can't get closer than having the coin on the back of your hand and to them it's visually changing on the back of their hand. So it's a really just awesome moment and something that, ever since I've released it years ago, it's been in my work and repertoire ever since, and I think that I have to pick it to go on the island and it was one of those effects that built and built.

Speaker 1: 39:34

You know it was inspired, um, by the diamond penny, which I think I first saw on penguin magic and, uh, in the research to the effect, I was trying to find out who originated it.

Speaker 1: 39:46

But, um, yeah, I did, uh, reference the penguin magic and all that was one of the first little bits you could buy, where you had a dime, uh, a penny and you would tap it with a pen, it would change to a dime on your finger, but it had no, that was the moment. The visual moment was wow, blimey, but then it it had no lead in. It had no, nothing after that. And what I really wanted was that kickback moment where they go to open their hand and they have that another moment of magic. So I think three moments of magic inside one very short coin routine is why that makes it onto the island with me. But yeah, as I say, I could have just sat and picked all day loosely effects, but at the same time I wanted to just have a couple in there. But out of all of them, that was its own little task was going what ones do I pick out of what I use? And uh, yeah, I think that that has to be in there.

Speaker 2: 40:45

So that's envision well, it's one that you said hasn't been available for a little while, but it's very soon going to be available again, because I have seen the very cool packaging for it, which looks wicked. It's coming back. It's coming back.

Speaker 1: 41:02

It is. This isn't in there as a plug. This genuinely is because you'll know, you know I only create once or twice. Well, I create every other day, but I only release once or twice a year and it's because I want to want it to be worked in and and solid, and that was something that we were only able to have. I think a total 150 units made, um, and there's still, to this day, the effect I get asked for in my inbox all the time. So, yeah, it was obviously, you know, working alongside pete. We managed to get it back into production, so that will be out very soon. But that aside, whether it was coming out or not, this would make it into my top eight because it's just a solid, solid, visual routine.

Speaker 2: 41:48

Well, I think people only have to see it performed to understand how strong it is and, like you said, I'm a massive, massive, massive, massive fan of kickback moments. I think it's great, and I think in your colour-changing deck there's one of those moments as well, right where they look down and suddenly it's changed and they're not aware that it's changed. So it seems to be one of the tropes that you really enjoy as well.

Speaker 1: 42:22

Yeah, I love, I absolutely love kickbacks. If I could do more I would, but then also, less is more with kickbacks. If every routine has a kickback, then it doesn't have that moment anymore. Um, so, yeah, you've got to pick them uh wisely, but absolutely I love it because what you're doing is you're leading them to think that one thing's going to happen and then, bang, something else happens. So almost in their mind you know that's almost an extra little moment. And uh, then they get the visual moment of the kickback. So you go, oh, he's played with my wife and he's just done that. So it just has these, yeah, really cool moments to it.

Speaker 1: 42:52

But yeah, like you say, I mean the cards in, uh, mystique, that is because you almost highlight them. Well, these didn't change, I'm not that good. And you pick them up, you get the misdirection comes to the other point and the second. I look back, they have changed. So you have that moment and it just it plays nicely because it goes boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 1: 43:13

You know, one, two, three things happen in freeze really nicely when you're framing moments of magic and that's the same with the envision. You know you've got the. Yes, you've got that moment at the beginning where you're talking about it reappearing back in your hand. But then you've got, boom, that second moment of the visual change, the third moment, bang of the um, kickback. And then they had you put it all in their hands, to, to, to check out. So, yeah, kickbacks are awesome, the routines, visual, it plays on their hand, not I don't know what more you could really want really in a close-up effect. Um, and it packs. Yeah, we go pack small, pack small in your pocket. Uh, so hopefully I wouldn't lose it in the sand. Um, I'll just keep it on me, but, yeah, great effect.

Speaker 2: 43:59

Well, all of your tricks so far could pack small, so you could literally put these in a small um bum bag or fanny pack. Um, yeah, and.

Speaker 1: 44:11

And travel wherever you needed to go with these, yeah, and and there is some attention behind that as well because you know as well as I do, when you're travelling around, especially if you're going abroad, it's really tricky trying to get certain bits on you and out to do the show. So when I travel, I always travel with a set of the show in my main luggage and as much or as travel with a set of the show in my main luggage and as much or as close to a set of the show in my hand luggage. And yeah, the next one actually leads us nicely into number five. If you're happy for me to go there.

Speaker 2: 44:50

Yeah, let's go for it. So what's in your fifth spot?

Speaker 1: 44:52

So the fifth one is my no, tear, torn and restored paper balls overhead routine, and it's been named a couple of different things. So, as you see, on my paper it's called one thing and in my notes it's called something else, but in effect is inspired by Slidini's paper balls over the head, but under the guise of having a, I'm going to teach you a trick, or normally I'll get a child up to help me. So in effect, I've got a. Oh, there you go. You've got my notes there. Yeah, it's called. What's it called in there? Spectator TNR or, yeah, spect. Yeah, spectator tnr. Okay, that's in the uh lecture notes. James, just brought up nice little plug there. Jamie, creative collective volume one, very nice, um. So, yeah, spectator tnr.

Speaker 1: 45:48

So this, when you're traveling, I mean the pinnacle of pack small, play big. I've played stages, stages of 300 plus of this and it is just three napkins, that's all you need. So I get a spectator up, so you're going to learn a magic trick. Are you excited? Yes, so you open up this big napkin and you basically say to them I would like you to tear it down the middle. They tear it down the middle, they turn it landscape, tear it again, tear, tear, tear, bundle it up into a ball. I then take that ball and, uh, I perform paper balls over the head. So about that, obviously, methodology is what it is. When you see it, um, I throw that paper ball over their head and switch it for a paper ball that I've shown to the audience in my left hand. And now they get the moment of magic that the ball that they've just torn up now restores, because I open it up and the crowd go wild for them. Obviously, the crowd are in on it. So you get this moment for the spectator. But then you get this awesome moment where you say, well, I'm not about doing magic for just one person, I want to try and make some magic for everyone, whoever's with you on the stage.

Speaker 1: 47:01

You get to go pick up the torn ball because they get the moment where you say I'm sorry, I threw it over your head. So they look, crowd laughs, kid. Then goes, picks it up, and then you, whatever magic words you say, you say it again and as they open that torn up one, they now it's restored. So you get the kicker and the audience have the moment of magic. So you pulled the rug out underneath their feet because they're thinking oh yeah, look, just pull that child, it wouldn't fool me. And then you come along and you go. I just did because.

Speaker 1: 47:32

And what's great about this as well is, you know, when people say we're playing balls over the head, if they catch you throwing that ball over the head, then the gig's up right, the game's over. The great thing about this, if the kid catches you throwing it over the head, only in their mind, you know, in their mind, you have just thrown a torn one over the head. Yeah, and the same with respect with the audience. So actually getting caught is quite good, because I caught me, uh, you know. But actually let's try some real magic. Go pick that one up. You just tore and now that's restored, they go, oh my god. So either way, whether you get caught or not and you shouldn't do I think it plays nicely when you don't get caught, because that's how I created it, the structure's there for it.

Speaker 1: 48:20

But ultimately I wanted a paper balls over the head that was more than just a paper balls over the head, because I've seen it done amazing by some amazing magicians, you know, and the shoe goes over the head and the blazer that they were wearing goes over the head and the the blazer that they were wearing goes over the head and all of this, but in effect, there's no real payoff moment of magic, right, because it is the items going over the head and the spectator's reaction is what is the magic really? Whereas I wanted that moment of magic as well and that's why I devised that, but for something that is three napkins spoiler alert, there's three for something like that that just plays huge. We were talking earlier. Maybe when this goes out, I've already done it, but on the 29th I'm doing the Leicester Square Theatre again and this was an effect I did there last time and it absolutely brought the house down. It's something I'm going to do again, because when you can get a child that wants to come up and be involved, because you bill it as their first ever trick they're going to perform and you still make them the star of the show because they fool the whole crowd at the end by restoring that second one.

Speaker 1: 49:34

The structure is lovely on it again, I've got napkins on the beach, effectively. I've got toilet paper. I'm not. So you know, I've thought about these jv. I've got something behind each one. So, as well as being an effect that I would not want to be without it's. Uh, it's great because I love napkins with me as well, for various other reasons.

Speaker 2: 49:55

Well, I've seen you perform this on stage. I've seen you do it in London. I've seen you do it at the Magic Circle. I've seen you do it in a close-up environment. I've seen you do it in the shop to people.

Speaker 2: 50:08

I've literally seen you do this everywhere. And if I was playing Dave Loosely Bingo, this would have been probably my top two for the ones I thought you would have put in there. Um, and it's one of those routines, a bit like dan harland starkle, where it really does play massive for what it is. And I know there that you've mentioned having kids on stage, but I've actually performed this at a wedding with a bride and groom, so it really does play for a massive audience. And again, we talk about the mental toolbox on the podcast a couple of times. But this is one of those ones where, as soon as you've got the knowledge in your head, as soon as you understand what's going on and you've practiced it, that piece of information is with you anywhere in the world. You can now do that trick anywhere where there are napkins is with you anywhere in the world.

Speaker 2: 50:54

You can now do that trick anywhere where there are napkins, which is anywhere, basically, in the world, you know yeah um, and I remember talking to you years ago about finding ways to manufacture them looking around, so trying to force that moment so that they always see that one going over their head.

Speaker 1: 51:18

Yeah, yeah, because it depends where you're playing with it. You're right, with an adult that plays better if you force that moment because you want that I'm, the bigger I am, sort of thing, and then you know it pulls the rug out of there underneath them again when you actually restore it. But they get the moment the you bill it as them doing the restoration, but still we're going hold on. He's just done me there. How is he? You know, um, and I think again, I think I've put it up on youtube it's a half hour performance that I did, uh, when filmed the, the penguin lecture, and the lady that I had it's hard to say she was hard work, but I deliberately picked her because I watched off stage as Dan Harlan was there and I was watching who was reacting and stuff Cause I love that banter back and forth If someone's willing to, you know, talk and play a bit, and then that, for me, is what I love on stage, because it creates a, you know, a unique moment.

Speaker 1: 52:18

And the moment I did the paper balls on her just absolutely fried her and she was really on trying to be on me quite a bit. Um, but the moment that and she's the one I'm doing a restoration, you know, so you bill it as her doing the trick. But she was like what she come up to me afterwards I can't say what she said because it's explicit, but it apps. So that was a one bit and I did some powerful stuff on that. That was a one bit. She just couldn't fathom. Um, and yeah, literally three napkins. So now I appreciate your, your kind words on that and that is why it had to.

Speaker 2: 52:49

It had to be in my top eight well, that leads us nicely on to number six. So what was in your sixth spot?

Speaker 1: 52:56

okay. So six is needle through balloon. Um, I think I heard pete uh saying on one of the uh lives that he thought that was going to be one of the ones. And well, when he said that, to be fair, pete, I was going to take it out. Mate, I didn't want you getting it, but I kept it because, um, you're absolutely right, this is for something that is a shop bought item that anyone could do for me. This, this is a lot more than that.

Speaker 1: 53:27

So, needle through balloon if you don't know, it is as it sounds on the tin, only the balloon doesn't pop. So you take a huge knitting needle, blow up a balloon, touch the needle into the balloon doesn't pop. So you take a huge knitting needle, blow up a balloon, touch the needle into the balloon. It melts through one side and out the other side, balloon doesn't pop and uh, a cool, cool moment of magic. So what I've done with with this is basically use it and, like you said, like there's a callback, um, but it runs through the show. So the effect, the effect happens very early on in the show where it's built, and I won't give you my full um pattern behind it. It's online if you want to go and watch it. It's not there to be taken, but this has to be on the island with me because ultimately I've got a huge knitting needle to go and catch fish with but at the same time I've got this effect and yes, it's a moment of magic. But for me it's actually two moments of comedy and a wow factor at the end because you use it as an encore moment. So I'll explain how I use it, but I just won't give you all the power for it. So I talk about. You know a lot of people do get into magic from their granddad. It becomes almost a stock line over the years. But it was true to me and it wasn't as good as watching Needle Through Balloon. He did the version where you would put sellotape on the balloon and take like a small needle and just punch it through, and it was one of the first little tricks he sort of showed me. But it fooled me for ages before he showed it to me. So he would pick me up on a Friday and take me back, look after me until my mom come, got me and he'd show me some magic. And this was great inspiration behind.

Speaker 1: 55:14

You know, writing this moment for the effect anyway. First time I show the crowd I build it up massively and when I go to do it it bursts a balloon right deliberately. But then you get a really funny moment because I've got a stop line. After that they forget about the balloon. Then at the end I'll finish on one of my effects and I'll say do you want one more? And then, regardless of what they say, they're going to get one more. Then I'll play some music upbeat music and I go and grab another balloon with this sort of cheeky look of face, because I've built this up and this was one of the.

Speaker 1: 55:52

I will just touch back on this. This was a very nervous moment the first few times I did this, because I kill out of the 10-15 minute cabaret set, which you don't normally get that very long. Um, I kill a good minute and a half to two minutes building this effect for nothing to happen, uh, but then it's covered with a comedy line, so hopefully it gets a laugh. But that has to be there, those two minutes of building this. Because then at the end, when I come out with a balloon and a needle with this cheeky look on my face, sort of waving the balloon, they go, ah, okay. And then the needle you literally center the stage right up above my head. The needle goes through the balloon Out the other side, the trick works and then I've loaded the balloon with confetti so that when the balloon goes up and I punch it with the needle now I get a shower of confetti around myself and I'm in an open arm position to be. Thank you so much. So it's like the ending of the show.

Speaker 1: 56:50

So, for something that is a shop bought item and there's nothing wrong with shop bought items, but I think, as a creator, you always try to sort of go your route with things. Um, there's something that anyone could get. I would not be without it. It. It, for me, has a real funny moment in the near the beginning of my show, but also has the magical moment at the end which then frames it as the end of the show. And, um, without having like these expensive confetti cannons and stuff like that I still get and if you look on my social medias and stuff like that, there are shots of me in this stance, with my arms wide open, with this sort of big expression on my face and confetti falling in front of me. The great shot for camera, uh, and it's that my show. That that's the show, thank you.

Speaker 1: 57:36

You know, it's that big ending out of something which is again pack small, jv, you inflate it yourself, you blow it up, uh, so you can't get much more flat than that. The only issue is traveling with a with a huge needle. Um, but if I was traveling with this, then it is a case of you know, you win some, you lose some, and I have lost some and I have won some, and sometimes I've managed to buy some at the actual destination because it is a huge knitting needle. So you know they are, I wouldn't say, readily available, uh, sparsely available, but yeah, it's again has to be with me on the island. As I say, I can hump fish with it as well. So there you go, jamie.

Speaker 2: 58:21

Well, what I was thinking there is I know that you don't want people to take your scripting and stuff like that away, but if they do want to watch that video, what they can take away from that performance and that trick, which I think is really clever, is how and we spoke about it, well, I spoke about it in the introduction the theatrical side of what you do.

Speaker 2: 58:41

You're very much into the theater of things as well, and it's the fact that you've managed to create an entire story from this trick which carries all the way through, and I would say that when you bring that balloon out at the end and I've seen you perform it the audience connect the dots without you really needing to explain what's about to happen. They are the ones that create the drama and they create the anticipation in their head, and they're always expecting it to be another joke, because it tends to be like murmurs and giggles when, when you bring it out, it's not a oh my god, is it gonna work, it's oh my god, here we go again, moment. Yeah, so then when it does happen, it really strengthens that moment and it makes it feel like such an achievement for for you definitely, definitely.

Speaker 1: 59:34

I like that. You said that, man. I appreciate that. What's hilarious was, the more I've done this, the there have been, you know, uh, I, I guess it's just due to the hot lighting or I'm not sure exactly, but there have been moments where I come back on and I've got this big sort of reveal of needle through balloon again and everyone's connecting the dots and then it goes and pops, right.

Speaker 1: 59:58

But then you go. You know, I let you in the magic circle and I go to do it. I go put the needle through the balloon the second time because I go off. I do all my close-up and I say, well, I'm going to now go off, come back on and build this as if I'm about to treat you like a lay audience. All right.

Speaker 1: 1:00:14

So I do my show and at the end I come back on with the needle through balloon. I throw it up the second time. Sorry, I hold it the second time. I slowly touch the needle into it and boom, it pops, and just very quickly the moment it burst. I just went. See, I got you twice. You thought it was going to happen. I had to get out of it, but that got a huge roar and they loved it as much as it probably not as much as it going Right. They probably loved it more as a magic audience because I've built it again and got them again, if that makes sense. So that's just living in the moment. But ultimately I'll have two balloons offstage and they'll be my backup balloons with confetti in them, and the first balloon won't have confetti in it because I know it's definitely going to pop. But yeah, it's one of those tricks. That's just it does a lot more for me than just needle-through balloon.

Speaker 3: 1:01:18

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Speaker 3: 1:01:57

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Speaker 2: 1:02:53

Well, that brings us nicely to the tail end of your eight. So what did you put in your seventh spot?

Speaker 1: 1:02:59

so seventh spot for me, uh, was building egg, walnut, lemon, um, with, like, the burnt banknote presentation. Um, this is the first step I ever had into standing up on the stage, away from close-up magic, away from my double-act partner. And this effect, which was, you know, you've seen it before by Paul Daniels, and it's one of these just amazing tricks you borrow a banknote. In this instance they put the banknote into an envelope, four envelopes. They pick an envelope. I say you know I'm going to influence you to pick the envelope. You can either go with it or not. They pick an envelope, four envelopes. They pick an envelope. I say, um, you know I'm going to influence you to pick the envelope. You either go with it or not. They pick an envelope. The other three get burnt and when they open up, you say and inside your envelope, open up, go down into the corner, you should see your banknote. They go down there. It's not there, right? So you get this sort of awkward moment. Um, I have another trick in the middle to sort of say look, I, I haven't forgotten about your money. But if I can do this, then let's write that off, right, you know? And that's another trick. I won't, I won't talk about that. But in effect, you've lost their money.

Speaker 1: 1:04:06

Then you bring out the lemon which is presented. It's got reason for being there. Cut open the lemon. Inside the lemon is an egg. Crack open the egg. Inside the egg is a walnut. Put a walnut on the floor, let them stand on it, crunch it, they, they bend down, they pick up what they find inside and it's their, their signed banknote. Um, for me, this effect is is just perfect.

Speaker 1: 1:04:33

I used to do my 15-minute cabaret with just a couple of visual sight gags and this effect, because it has everything it needs to be a performance piece. Unfortunately, let's see how many times what your people have got to do is play. Perhaps we'll play big as a shot game, because I think we are the pinnacle of that throughout this through, uh, throughout this conversation. But this is again, and you can see why is the pack small. Play big because it's stuff that you can buy when you get to location and you can prep before the show. But this is my big.

Speaker 1: 1:05:11

I would happily stand on the stage of hundreds of people and end my show with this effect, because it's impossible, it's visual and it's so magical. I owe a lot to it because it gave me the confidence to get on stage. I think it was Magic Night at Madame Jojo's in Soho and I was absolutely terrified. It was a proper Friday night crowd and, um, it was rowdy in there and you know it's what they love that to be. But for me I was so nervous backstage but I knew the effect was strong so I could have all the fun and the bioplay around it. But yeah, I owe a massive thanks to Lee Hathaway really because he he taught me this effect and and sort of took me through it and without that I probably wouldn't have had the confidence to get onto the stage until much later, even though I was into performing arts. I mean, it was a very different thing standing up and presenting the magic than it was being in these production shows. But yeah, so Lee Hathaway, I owe a lot to him for that because, although you know bill and egg isn't his effect, he kindly, because he was so well known for doing it on the streets at that time.

Speaker 1: 1:06:24

Um, on magic corner in common garden, I spent a lot of my time around there. I worked on the magic cave stand, so I knew lee really well and, um, that effect just it has to be again on the island with me, because not only does it play big and it is what it is, it has those sort of memories forming as well. I think you find that a lot for all of the tricks. Just looking at my list here, each one has a core memory sort of with it and so, yeah, again as well. Eggs and walnuts I mean I've got a lot going on here. I could hunt for fish, jamie. I've got eggs and walnuts. I've got a cup. I've got beer. I'm in toilet paper, I'm sorted, really.

Speaker 2: 1:07:05

Well, we're going to start having to call you Flat Pack Looselli. That's going to be your new nickname. This is your new performance name. If your last trick is now like the buzzsaw illusion, I'm going to be desperately upset with you at this point. But what did you put in your last spot?

Speaker 1: 1:07:22

I have to finish with um four nightmare. This is the rope routine. Um, this rope routine has just it's taken me so many places. I Now this is an off-the-shelf purchased rope routine by Tenyo, and ever since finding it, it is one moment that I will not be without in a close-up environment or a stage environment. This is the rope effect that closed my close-up competition act and at the end of it I add in my own bits. But also the handling of it is, I would say, a big part of it.

Speaker 1: 1:08:08

The second part of it is mine, but not by design. So it comes with um instructions. I think they're chinese and really the british instructions on it are not very good. So by no means of my own, I misinterpreted the, what I believe was the instructions that then create this moment, which for me is one of the most visual, which is um, where the long piece of rope and the. So I I understand I haven't explained the whole rope routine here, but in effect some really visual moments of magic happen with these two pieces of rope. One is short, one's long. They then both become long. Um, you can then tie both together, peel off the knot, um, put the knot away, take the long piece of rope. Fold it around itself so it looks like a circle of rope is hanging on a long piece of rope. Fold it around itself so it looks like a circle of rope is hanging on a long piece of rope. And then you can peel that circle off, so now it's a circle on its own. So when it gets to this bit, there's a moment where the presentation tells you to sort of thread the circle back on so that you almost like putting the ends back on the circle of rope moment.

Speaker 1: 1:09:19

I misinterpreted that. I couldn't understand what it was, so I just sort of went well, if I do this, and what I do is I place the long piece up near the circle and I throw it through the circle and it looks like as it goes through the circle it transforms into one piece. So that is one of the most magical pieces I think I do in my show and it gets gasps from the crowd. And then at the very end I go back to the knot that I took off earlier and something incredibly magical happens with that, which then leaves me again in that arms open pose stage of you know, wow, sort of like. You know that applause cue. You know wow, sort of like. You know that applause cue Again for something that is so small and plays so big, and it is again one I travel with everywhere. I take one in my hold all and in my hand luggage because it just looks like rope, but it's very special rope.

Speaker 1: 1:10:17

The only downside to this effect is how expensive it is. I was, I think I would buy every single one off of the planet so no one could get their hands on it because, quite weirdly, I mean it's not my effect but through my handling and through doing it, a lot, um, people tend to know me now for this trick and and like to see me do it. Um, so it's something that again has to go with me and with rope, I mean, I can create traps to catch animals and stuff on them. Everything's had a little bit of thought behind the ear, but I think that, yeah, I think you knew that that was going to. Um, that was going to be in my list at some point, but I don't know how I've said packs will play big so many times in this uh presentation.

Speaker 1: 1:11:01

However, I think you know magicians hate it. That might be why I've put it in there, but it's a little, you know, curveball back at you, um, but seriously, I think it's important to have stuff like that as well, that you can travel with, and and that effect is is the one for me. So, yeah, I think online you can see me do it, uh, yeah, at the end of my magic circle competition act, and I've got loads of other performances of me doing it, um, but it's just one of those ones that I think I'll I'll do forever yeah, I remember you were the first person that I saw do it, and I think for me it was the moment of the ring coming off, because it's so clean.

Speaker 2: 1:11:45

They literally see this large knot tied into the rope and then you just place your finger into the hole, drag it down, and as you drag it down, suddenly there's a loop resting on your finger. I think it's easily the most visual piece of rope magic I've ever seen I, I agree with you on that.

Speaker 1: 1:12:07

Um, I won't take kudos for the effect because you know I didn't create the effect, but I've put a lot of hours in, uh, into structuring it, performing it now and I actually do it in close-up walk-arounds and it gives a really hilarious picture, because the way I end it is with that streamer and it ends up cut. I just do it above the head of whoever is playing me up at the table or the groom or whoever you want to have the photographers around. I always say you're going to get a good moment at the end of the rope trick. So he's there, sort of ready and uh, yeah, and it's so visual I mean, you've seen how that plays on stage but also in a close-up environment that close in front of your eyes, um, and for just what is to them two pieces of rope, um, in your pocket. It is is a huge moment out of something that that's, you know, it's that small.

Speaker 2: 1:13:02

Well, I think, yeah. You are now the king of pack small, plays big. I think, well, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:13:10

It was not my intention. I actually didn't. I actually come on here going I know what should I not say, because I'm additions hate the saying packs will play big. I was like I love it, but I didn't realise to say it that many times, so I do apologise. But hey, listen back with your friends and you can play drinking bingo, can't you?

Speaker 2: 1:13:28

Every time that gets pulled up, but yeah, I feel like you've learnt just as much about yourself today as we've learnt about you.

Speaker 1: 1:13:39

Yeah, just as much about yourself today as we've learned about you. Yeah, it's been a bit of therapy, mate, I think, but I've enjoyed it. You know what? Dissecting and going through these tricks, I feel like I've waffled on a lot, but at the same time it's um. It has shown me that there is like a core memory behind each of these, the reason why I've picked them um, but didn't really realize that until we've we've spoken deeply about them. So, yeah, it's like jamie dawes, therapy isn't it.

Speaker 2: 1:14:03

Well, that's the thing. I know that you've done a lot of these tricks for years and years and years and if we look at your list, each one is so individual, it's so unique. You've only got one card trick in here and even the card trick isn't really framed as a card trick. It's framed about the bottle cap, part of that trick. You know the card trick isn't really framed as a card trick. It's framed about the bottle cap, part of that trick. You know the card trick is almost secondary in that effect. So you've gone for squash, the magician's matchbox, harmonica, chop cup, envision no tear paper balls, needle through balloon bill in lemon walnut egg and for nightmare. So each one of those is completely unique.

Speaker 1: 1:14:39

Oh, that's awesome yeah, it's um, yeah, it was no real structure behind it. I didn't really want to say I'm going to take one, one road trick, one card trick, you know, and I could probably fill it with eight really decent card tricks. But I think you've got to go with what you enjoy performing, as much as how you feel it's going to get received by the spectator. And especially if you're going on to a desert island and you're never going to see people again, it's all about you, isn't it? And what you enjoy, what you want, and I think every single one of them, yeah, just ticks the box for me. So I wouldn't change that eight. I'd be happy right now if you threw me onto a desert island. I'd take those eight tricks with me.

Speaker 2: 1:15:24

Well, we now get to move on to your banishment, and I swear, if in your banishment you put people who say pack small, play big, that's going to be a great twist. What?

Speaker 1: 1:15:35

did you put?

Speaker 2: 1:15:35

in your banishment.

Speaker 1: 1:15:37

You beat me there, jamie. So, no, um, do you know what? I know my banishment and I'll keep it light because you could get negative about it. I don't want to do that. Uh, my banishment is, uh, magic egos and and clicks at like conventions and stuff. Um, I won't go too much into it because it is what it is, but I've been quite lucky to lecture at many clubs and travel around and it's very evident to someone on the outside looking in who are the cliques within these clubs and the egos and if you take it bigger, to conventions as well, and you can just see sometimes as people just stood. You know we're supposed to be this. The magic world is. As I've known. It has always been very friendly and you know we all bundle over this one thing.

Speaker 1: 1:16:31

But at the same time I could walk into a room happily, chat to somebody that I've never met about magic and leave almost saying cool, I see them as a bit of a friend, you know, and we were chatting earlier. And Harry Harrington, you know, the first time I proper you know, I've seen his work and know of him. The first time I got to really sit down and chat with him was at Blackpool. We sat down for a good hour, had a beer and a chat, and then later in the convention we caught up again and we had a chat and you know he might not see it this way, but when I left I was like what a solid guy, you know. I'd see him, as you know, I'm not going to say, oh, he's now going to be a new best man, you know, but at the same time I'd see him as I'd say, yeah, I know how I see him as a mate, like because you sit and chat and and that's what I think the magic industry is is really good for.

Speaker 1: 1:17:28

But there are times and I see it, and I saw it recently, and I won't say where or what have you, but there was one young magician and, um, he's almost just stood there in a room of a lot of older magicians and you could just see it like all it takes is for somebody to walk up to him and be like I've come join us, right, you know, that's what I love about magic and what I get out of magic. But I hate to think that I only get that because now you know I'm, you know I've just won a competition or I've released magic. I'm gonna go and speak to him because I know who he is. But actually there's people that are amazing at magic that might not have the confidence to go and speak to him because I know who he is.

Speaker 1: 1:17:58

But actually there's people that are amazing at magic that might not have the confidence to go and join a group. But why not just put them in? Do you know what I mean? Because sometimes it's and I still, I still see it and I saw it a lot of Blackpool, the same old clicks of people that you go. Well, I'm not going to go interrupt that because you know I don't that is what it is.

Speaker 2: 1:18:27

It's that click of people and it's that. But I think why it doesn't need it, you know honestly. So I would banish, um, is it click or clicks? It clicks, clicks? Well, it's, it's your banishments you can have either.

Speaker 1: 1:18:31

Whatever version you want, we'll go. Whatever the, whatever the uh pronunciation is um and egos, you know, sometimes it just it does not warrant it and at the end of the day, we're just doing magic tricks, you know, um.

Speaker 2: 1:18:44

So yeah, I didn't want to bring the mood down, but I would definitely banish it well, you're the second person that we've had say that since we've been doing the banishments, and I dare say it's going to be a regular occurrence when it comes to the banishments, and I wholeheartedly agree. I think it's a shame almost, that we have cliques and we're not just saying that's in magic though, because there are cliques in every industry. Any industry that you go into, there's always going to be cliques. I'm sure in most normal jobs of some kind there is a clique right. In most normal jobs of some kind there is a clique right. But what I think is a shame is it stops our growth, because you could go into a room and talk to 15 people and learn so much and in turn teach them so much, but because of cliques we're not having that interaction as much.

Speaker 1: 1:19:35

No, no, I completely agree.

Speaker 2: 1:19:37

So it'd be lovely if you could drop it into the old banishment well, there's a big ditch, and it's that they've all been thrown in there. I don't know them. Magic egos have all been thrown in there and cliques have been thrown in there. But let's go on to the lighter side of your list. You've got two more things. Uh, we've got the book, so what are you going to put in your book position?

Speaker 1: 1:19:57

So book position for me goes Rune's World by Rune Klan. This is I've got it here my all-time favourite book, and this was really hard because I have some amazing books that have inspired me. You know the Complete Course of Tarbell and Wilson's Book of Magic. There's some in there that I would love, but this I think if I was going to go on Desert Island. There's bits in here that I still need to discover. He is such a creative thinker, rune Clan.

Speaker 1: 1:20:28

This was put out by Vanishing Ink and written by Jobs J, and I would be devastated if this ever left my magic repertoire. The whole first half of the book is close-up magic. Actually, the first section of that half is impromptu close-up magic, but we're talking impressive impromptu close-up magic. Um, there's a trick in here I think it's called pensive and it's with a pen and a coin. It's just super visual magic. There's an amazing card on the box style routine, but with a borrowed beer bottle and a coin and a napkin. He's a real out of the box thinker and there's loads of tricks within the first half of this book that I haven't yet had the time to sit and just by looking at the pictures I go oh God, that's going to be a real quirky idea. That's going to be an awesome handling. It does a lot of really cool coin stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:21:28

And then the second half of the book was super inspiring to me. If I show you it, it's almost written like an old school cartoon magazine and this is all aimed at more stage magic, visual gags, comedy moments. You know he's a really well-known comedy magician and this is a book that I've always sat down to, want to completely read, cover to cover, but something's always come up, and every time I go back to it it's normally to relearn the effects I do out of it. So so I think if I was stuck on a desert Island and I could only have one book, I'd love to master this book from cover to cover and also still be inspired, especially by the second part of this book, to create and devise routines as well. So, yeah, that's my book.

Speaker 2: 1:22:18

It's runes world by rune clan well, that's a great choice and leads us on to your last item. So what would you put in your non-magic position?

Speaker 1: 1:22:27

so my non-magic position is, uh, gonna be my, my drum set. So it's it's kind of as well as being something I've loved doing since I was a kid. It's always been magic and drumming and, um, you know, I've never I've played in a band in percussion when I was younger, but never since and um, it's almost like a bit of a stress reliever as well. You know, you've had a long day, um, I don't know if you're aware, but I've got three very young children, so when they go to bed, of course you're aware, uh, when they go to bed, um, it's very nice to a little bit of a stress reliever out there on the drum set and it's an electric drum kit, so it might be an issue in the sand.

Speaker 1: 1:23:06

Uh, hopefully you can give me a connection report there, um, but I just think it's something that I and I'm not even an amazing drummer, but at the same time I'm always learning magic as well you're always progressing. So the fact that I I'm okay but I've got so much to learn is exciting, because I still have that thing I can go out and try and get better at, uh, which I think is important, you know, for the mind as well, as you know, getting that skill, but um, so yeah, for me that's an easy one. I have to take my, my drum kit with me well, I tell you what.

Speaker 2: 1:23:42

We'll give you a solar powered connection for your drum kit so you can take it with you on your island amazing, that'd be.

Speaker 1: 1:23:51

Yeah, what's the one that tesla? The guy did the tesla's do? He's got like a. You can get a signal from anywhere, can't you?

Speaker 2: 1:23:58

great. Well, I think that's a great closing gambit. Let's go back through your list. So we started with squash the magician's matchbox, harmonica chop cup. Uh, envision no tear paper balls overhead. Needle through balloon bill in lemon walnut egg. Uh, for nightmare. Your banishment is magic, egos and cliques. Your book is runes world and your item is a drum set. That's a pretty diverse list. Going on there.

Speaker 1: 1:24:23

I would say yeah, very happy with that. Um, this has been a lot of fun, man. And uh, yeah, I tell you what now I know, you know, just in case that did happen, I know exactly what I need to grab well, let's hope it doesn't.

Speaker 2: 1:24:37

But if anyone wants to find out more about you, dave, where can they go to?

Speaker 1: 1:24:42

yeah, so, um, best place really. I mean, it's my website. Dave lucy magiccouk um, there are a few effects on there. If you're still interested in that sort of stuff and, uh, please join my email list, because that is where, and especially soon, uh, a of the first information is going to be. But other than that, I am on Instagram I think it's Dave Loosley, but those two places really, through my website. On the email list you'll get all the info from me, and actually on my website there's a chat bit.

Speaker 2: 1:25:18

So if you ever need to get in contact, uh, go on there or over on instagram. Amazing job, well, thank you so much for your time and thank you for putting your list together, dave you're very welcome. Thanks for having me and we'll see you in a few years for the stage competition.

Speaker 1: 1:25:30

Yeah, yeah, don't quote me on that, but yeah maybe, and thank you all for listening.

Speaker 2: 1:25:35

Obviously we'll be back next week with another episode. And, don't forget, we do have Stranded with a Stranger. So if you want to send in your list of eight tricks, one banishment, one book and one non-magic item that you use for magic, send it to sows at alakazamcouk. In the subject line put my desert island list. That way it comes through to me and we can get one of these recorded for you. Don't recorded for you. Don't forget to put in a bio and also don't forget to put your reasons for those tricks. So, with that being said, we'll see you next week for another episode of stranded with a stranger and desert island tricks.

Speaker 3: 1:26:07

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