Desert Island Tricks
Each week we invite one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on a desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
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To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
Rich Relish
What does a magician do when a spectator wants to read their mind instead of having their own mind read? In a delightful twist shared by Welsh mentalist Rich Relish, he decided to play along, and was shocked when the spectator correctly divined his drawing of a house, leaping into the air with excitement while the wedding photographer captured the perfect moment.
This natural, unexpected moment of wonder perfectly encapsulates Rich's approach to magic: creating genuine connections through psychological presentations and organic props. Throughout our conversation, Rich reveals his thoughtfully crafted Desert Island Tricks selections, emphasising how he builds increasing impossibility into each performance. Beginning with Max Maven's B-Wave as his opener, he progresses through routines like Chris Congreave's Cloak (with its surprise reveal of Monopoly and Cluedo cards) and Steve Cook's The Gamble (cleverly adapted to use Lego pieces instead of poker chips).
What stands out in Rich's selections is his focus on personalisation. His adaptation of Brian Caswell's Pinnacle to reveal a wedding couple's date through seemingly random card selections often brings tears of joy. As he explains, "I like to pride myself on people seeing something which they've never seen before."
The conversation delves into colour psychology, the value of drawing duplications, and why coin envelopes might be the most versatile non-magic item a mentalist can carry. Rich also shares a refreshing perspective on competition among magicians, suggesting that wedding fairs should welcome multiple performers with different styles, just as they do with photographers and other vendors.
Explore this fascinating journey through psychological mentalism, creative adaptations, and the art of building wonder through increasing impossibility. Whether you're a performer seeking inspiration or simply curious about the inner workings of close-up magic, Rich's insights offer a blueprint for creating memorable moments of astonishment.
Rich’s Desert Island Tricks:
- B’Wave
- Cloak
- The Gamble
- Inside Out
- Pinnacle
- Drawing Duplication
- Easy Tones
- TBA
Banishment. Competition
Book. High Caliber
Item. Coin Envelopes
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
This is where I sort of got it wrong, because what they actually meant was can you read my mind? What I thought they meant was can I have a go of being a mind reader? So in my head I'm thinking, oh, this will be fine, I'll let them have a go of reading my mind. It'll go wrong, and if you see, that's how difficult it is, and I can turn around and perform it back on them. But then I thought, you know what? Let's try something. So I I'm going to say something and I'm going to give you a clue. It's not going to be something natural living.
Speaker 1:And I drew a picture of a house. Sonny expected him to maybe have got it wrong and see how difficult it was. He comes back over, he says OK, I've drawn mine. What have you drawn? Slide to another, my house, and he'd done a house as well. And he literally jumped in the air, literally left the foyer. How did you make going to draw which? Uh, and the photographer was perfectly placed. This I think it's still one of my promo shots on my website now. Luckily, he's got his pen in his hands. Jump, jumping up in the air.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. We're going somewhere that we have not been yet, which I'm very excited about Now. I've actually only been to Wales once, but that's where we're going today. We're going back to Wales, to South Wales, to see today's guest. Now, today's guest is an absolutely lovely person, number one. He's also an incredible magic creator. Now he's worked with lots of incredible companies, like the 1914, which he has several tricks out, compass Sequence being two of them. Recently, he worked with Craig Petty don't know who he is with Easy Tones, which was great. He actually has a trick out with Alakazam, which I remember the year that came out, and I remember actually buying that because I thought it was so quirky and so different. I had never seen anything quite like that, which is agility. So do go check that out. It's great.
Speaker 3:And exclusive.
Speaker 2:We've got another trick coming out with him in the near future which I can't say anything more about because I will get shot and you will never hear one of these podcasts again. So today's guest is the wonderful Rich Relish. How are you Rich, yeah?
Speaker 1:really good Thanks. Yeah, it's nice and sunny in South Wales so can't complain. So, yeah, thanks for seeing me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we should probably both caveat this by saying we are both sweltering, because we have the rare situation where we actually have a heat wave, which never, ever happens in the UK. So we are both absolutely so. Thankfully, this is not a video one, because it's just both of us dripping with sweat, so we don't want that. Now, how did you find putting your list together, rich?
Speaker 1:I kind of saw by it too much. In the end I went with the process of the island. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take my work in repertoire because those are the tricks I've chosen, the ones I know work. So the inhabitants of the island I know they're not my dreams, I mean, social media tricks are probably no good on a desert island. So yeah, so the tricks themselves from my work in repertoire, that was fine and the bandish one was even okay as well, but it's the um and the book, but it was the non-magic item that we'll get, related to the I think I struggled with the most I think with the banishment now that we've put in, I think that before the non-magic item was the hardest thing that people found, but now I thought it would be the banishment.
Speaker 2:I think people are struggling with putting that banishment in. I was.
Speaker 1:I was between two, but uh, I'll mention the other one briefly when we get there. But yeah, I settled on one.
Speaker 2:Nice. Well, I'm really looking forward to it because obviously I mean you've got tricks on Craig Petty's net tricks as well, and obviously you lecture for the Circle, I think a little while ago, so I'm guessing you have a lot of material to pull from Now for people who don't know. Are you primarily a close-up performer, a stage performer? What sort of pool of tricks do you take from?
Speaker 1:I've been on a stage a handful of times and it's not for me. And then I know a lot of people will start in close-up and the aim is to get to the stage. But for me, me, I love the interaction of going up to the group, performing in front of them and yeah, okay, some groups are more difficult than others to perform to, admittedly, but um, yeah, for me it's that, it's that connection you can get in small group, getting them all on side and letting them experience magic in their face. I think it's, um, yeah, close up to me and extremely close up mentalism, with a predominantly a psychological presentational point. But if something is good and unexplainable, I'm quite happy to leave it unexplained. But, um, yeah, not the, not the psychic type of stuff. I quite like the, uh, psychological side nice.
Speaker 2:So I think we've had a little bit of a teaser into what's going to be coming up. So let's stop at that little discussion there before you give anything away. If this is your first time listening to this, the idea is that we're about to maroon rich on his very own desert island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks banish one item, take one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic. Particulars, whoulars, who's there? What's there? All of that good stuff? You can have a dragon, if you want. Coming from Wales, it's all good, you can have whatever you want, we do not mind. It's in Rich's own imagination. So, with that being said, let's go to South Wales now and find out what Rich put in his first position. So yeah, first position.
Speaker 1:I thought it seemed apt. This has been my opener for a very, very, very long time and I struggled. I think a close-up opener and there's there's certain tricks which work on stage as an opener, where you can write things secretly, should we say and I've never got on with with those. So I looked for an opener for a long, long time and, to honest, I think I only bought this trip when it was on sale. I think I underestimated it, and that's A Wave by Max Maven, I mean it's perfect for me.
Speaker 1:It's four cards and the plot of the trick is that the participant names a suit and you explain that they're sword queens. They name a suit. You're able to show that not only is the names card the one that's face up in the packet, it's got a different color back and all of the others blank. And what I love about this is it's the same reveal, because if you know what suit they're going to say, then of course you can put a different colour back on it and you can not take care of this. But the way it builds is just and that's the ultimate max is brilliance, absolutely brilliant how you start off slowly. The other thing I like about it is the participant doesn't need to touch anything or hold anything. So if you're at a drinks reception, at a wedding, they don't need to put things down or ask somebody to hold something. It's a few simple questions and, yeah, you get three big reveals and it's obviously I'd recommend it to everybody the bonus that you get with it as well.
Speaker 1:I mean, I seem to remember buying it from penguin and as part of the explanation, there's an extra piece where max maven really challenges people to think about their own process. So, in terms of a performer, especially the mentalist, performing mind reading, not obviously, how are you getting the information, because that's part of the part of the method, but what's your perceived process? So have you got a little imp on your shoulder that's whispering things to you, or are you looking at facial tics or you? And that was really interesting because it was quite early on in my performing career and something I really hadn't thought about before. So and it also means then I've got something to think about when I'm supposed to be doing the process.
Speaker 1:So for me, I imagine I mean almost like an infinite library that's got all the answers in there and so, right, I've put somebody in this situation, so I need to go to right, so I need to go to this section for this one right, and this is on this shelf and then I take on this book and I look through it and it's this type of person. So it's. They're not like me. This isn't going to be the answer and it's never explained. It's. No, I never spoke about that during the performance, but for me it's just something to think about while I'm doing my mentalism face and supposed to be reading their mind. But yeah, to come back on the topic, yeah, boeve is just brilliant. Last week he was an absolute legend, I'm sure. I mean, if you don't know him, absolutely look up his book Prudhomme, it's brilliant.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, the amount of mileage you get from four cards, it's perfect for me. Yeah, it's great. And you mentioned that you use this as your opener. Is that just because it's quick and snappy? Is it because you find it more engaging? What is it about that sort of setup of trick that makes it your opener?
Speaker 1:yeah, so one thing is, like I said, they don't need to hold anything. So that's good. Um, it is, it is snappy. I think you, you have a really see for your first trick. You haven't really bought the trust of the audience then. So anything too prolonged and they might, they might lose interest.
Speaker 1:I think it uses playing cards. Um, I mean, I was, I was gonna say mild cards, but then on lucius podcast he beat me to it and did quite a good exploration on those. Uh, but, like using cards, they're a relatable object. People are people who use. Some people have seen, still seen them. Um, and so, yeah, and in terms of mentalism, I'm also, I also like using props, I like having things on the table, having things up for people to hold and touch and things.
Speaker 1:I think it's quite interesting. So, yeah, for me it's, it's, they don't, it's an easy to understand hook building reveals. They don't have to hold anything. It's relatively quick and I can take a psychological presentational stance as well, so it establishes a bit about my character. So, um, the the own. To be honest, the only drawback is that, um, you've got to be careful when you're repeating it if you're at an event where people might be coming to different groups to see you, then you have maybe got to be aware of that. But to be honest, I've performed this at residencies, in deal bars and getting one table to the next, and nobody's noticed anything. So I wonder if that's just a little bit of magician's guilt.
Speaker 2:More than anything, yeah, it's a great trick. So Max Maven was just an incredible thinker. I think it's a great, great choice at number one and leads us very nicely into number two. Now, before you say this so you mentioned that's your opener Are we going in as a set? Is this how you've listed it out? Oh, not quite.
Speaker 1:No, not quite are we going in as a set? Is this how you've listed it out? Not quite, no, not quite. There are a few, but almost, oh, almost okay.
Speaker 1:Well, let's find out what you put in number two then so number two is another card trick, but again it's not a straightforward trick, this one. So this is based on a 10 card poker deal. You know, I've always, I've always loved that, the freeness of the decisions that are made. So the people who are not sure, it's where the magician has a hand of 10 cards and the participant makes all the decisions. You end up with five cards each, but in the end, some traditional sense of the routines. Either party then could always win, always lose, end up with a royal flush, etc. But this is specifically Chris Congreve's cloak, so Chris brought this out a couple of years ago, I think, maybe three the most, and the ending is just brilliant. People just don't see it coming. So how Chris has taken it up differently is exactly the same process. So they make all the decisions. You end up with five cards each. When they reveal their cards, they've got a royal flush and spades. So it's still recognisable. I mean, less people know about gambling things than previously, admittedly, but people still know that ten jack, queen, king, ace of spades is a very, very good hand. So they turn that over and, um, you can get your best afternoon.
Speaker 1:And magician in trouble applying like oh my gosh. Yeah, because of course, during the setup you've said that, right, you're gonna have a game where you can have a hand of five cards each and you see who the winner is. I love the fact then that you deal these cards out. They see they've got a very good hand in terms of poker. And then the line you made the assumption that we were playing poker and it just creates that moment of doubt. They're like what? And then, relatively quickly, you can show that the five cards you've got in your hand are fraught, because there's a few sets, there's a Pluto set, there's a Monopoly set, and it just breaks all that tension. And what Breaks all that tension? And then, what was quite interesting, the last card says you owe me £10?. Because presentationally you'd say, oh my gosh, that's a royal thrashing of spades. If you were betting the man, you bet £10 on that. And so it's almost like a throwaway comment. And then you reveal you've got Professor Plum in the ballroom with a cucumber which, yes, a laugh of his own and Chris Conger's true style and the first one is him not be cuddling. The last one says so, if you bet, you'd owe me £10.
Speaker 1:I'd actually been given £10 for this trip when I performed it to somebody once Admittedly it's only once, but I don't know if they were on a date and the guy was out to impress the girl but yeah, he absolutely gained ten pound and I'd probably be in the bar for the bar staff who's got my residency and I thought I didn't want them seeing me taking money off a customer. That staff didn't sit right with me, but yeah, so the trick also does have the potential to earn you money and there's some great handling tips. I'll give Chris an idea towards the end that he kindly put on there, and Sean Taylor has also got a brilliant, brilliant idea for the last of one phase as well. So, yeah, it's just great and that absolutely is instant reset, instantly repeatable. So again, when you've got two small packets of cards, there's two completely different effects.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great, great choice. And you've opened up with two card tricks that are very, very different from each other. We've got this sort of very serious mind-readery one and then we've got this kind of jokey fun presentation as well. So I think that's going to be an interesting list going forward. So let's see where you went with number three list going forward. So let's see where you went with number three.
Speaker 1:So number three again, is a trick that is readily available, people can buy and it's, by well, I think, one of my favourite creators at Steve Cook. So Steve is simply brilliant. I mean he's, in fact, when I was very early into the scene and he reached out to me and we caught up in Blackpool and he showed me a few things and then we went to the Mines Convention in Newcastle with Mike Murray's convention, met him there and spoke to him there. He couldn't have asked for a better welcome from him and I could have chosen a lot of his tricks. But again, this one is absolutely my working set and that's the gamble he put out through Kmart Magic.
Speaker 1:So what you might have noticed is the way I like to sort of structure my close-up sets is starting off with things which are relatively low odds but still impossible, because I mean, even a one in four has got a 75% chance of going wrong and I like to build the impossibility because in my head, if you go in with something too impossible, you're not leaving yourself any way to go after that. So yeah, the gamble is a one in four. There are four poker chips in a wallet. Once chosen, you're able to show that you knew which one it was. Our basic change is, which is to make it fit with a different trip. The thing I like most about the gamble is just leaving them time to process afterwards because they pulled up. They pulled up the poker chip you've shown, you predicted it, and then just sit there and just just be a little bit quiet. And I found that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think as magicians we tend to sort of overlook things that are one in four, or even um, swindle, which is a one in two, is a 50, 50, a, which hand is 50 50, and sometimes those can be overlooked. But you get them. When you get the reveal, it's a one in four. Somebody's just thinking and processing oh, that could have happened. It's so fierce. Hands off. I'll give them the purse. They mix it around as much as they want, they take the piece out. It really is nowhere for them to go.
Speaker 2:And this is going back to the sort of serious mentalism as well, because it's quite a serious routine. It's played well, I presume if you said that you play it like steve does. It's quite a serious, uh piece of mentalism. Now, when you perform it, is this something that you would perform after b wave?
Speaker 1:uh, as like a way to expand on that one card sort of selection yeah, definitely, and I mean, if I tell you the change, I mean you can see this, I don't quite play as serious as the original and what I've done is I've swapped the poker chips for pieces of lego because, um, the piece at one point in the poker chips can be stacked up and it makes sense to stack lego pieces up like this as well.
Speaker 1:And, as you see, some of the tricks later on, I think the psychology behind colors are really interesting. It's engaging and people understand how, like some people read will mean valentine's day and everything romantic and other people. It's the red mist, it's blood, it's dangerous, a stop sign. But so I sort of lean into that presentationally, and so, using the lego pieces with bold colors and even like little lines where I say you've got four bits of Lego that definitely weren't stolen from the Lego shop in Cardiff, and it just softens the effect a bit. It still doesn't change the impossibility, but it just means that people yeah, they're used to Lego blocks, they could look at them, they know what they're supposed to look and feel like, and it just moves it away from, yeah, the seriousness of a poker routine, which makes it all for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. I love the idea of adding the Lego there, because it makes absolute perfect sense. Stacking them up yeah, that's absolutely brilliant. Well, that brings us to your next selection. So what did you put in number four?
Speaker 1:This is my thousand timer and probably brings us onto an interesting point about, should we say, electronics and I'm absolutely happy to use electronics as long as they're reliable, and I have an ad just in case the reliability doesn't always work. Um, so I had this a little while ago. It was probably a bit of an impulse purchase and at the point where I wanted to know what number somebody had chosen on a dice but didn't have the money for that. So instead I went a little bit sideways and maybe you're expecting me to say the RD Mini, but it wasn't. I actually went on the inside out route so I'm pro mystic which is small, cube, colored panels on either side, so it matches perfectly into the colors for me and you can take the lid off it and you know what. You know what color people have chosen. So saved up, invested, bought myself a. It worked flawlessly. The promistic stuff is really, really reliable. But it left me with two considerations, or call them problems. The first thing was well, okay, I've got this, now why have I got it? Why have I got this little pot that I can take the lid off and put it back on as a performance? Carry unusual and usual things, I get that, but why am I carrying this with me? And the second thing then was well, how do I routine this into something that's more than I know you're thinking of? Yellow, because that's what it's too good a method and a process, just to leave it there. And then this is where the change to gamble paid off, because by changing to lego pieces now I use the four by two lego pieces just we make quite a nice wall and they still fit in the little, the same wallet that it comes with. And but for the prediction piece, a two by two piece of le Lego sits perfectly in the inside out cube, and so that's why I have the blue one. I can't even remember why I went with blue. And so now I've got the purse comes out, the inside out box comes out and I shake it and I say right, so here we go, this is my prediction. We'll come back to that at the end. And then I can follow the gamble.
Speaker 1:And it's routined in that way for a few different reasons. Number one the prediction can be on display from the beginning, so why would you not? But also giving that inside out a little shake and putting it on the table means that by the time you're performing the gamble, you know whether your inside out is working properly. Um, because the little shake wakes it up and tells you what you need to know. So if, for whatever reason, it's not working properly and it's told me or not told me that it's not working properly, I know, then I can just just do the gamble. You've still got your reveal it's a little box to stop there and then move on to something different. Um, and I mean, I've been performing this been years and that's probably less than five times I think that's happened. But you've just got that peace of mind. So you know right, that's in front of you, that's working, do the gamble and then straight into inside out.
Speaker 1:In terms of the routine, something I'm really proud of, I think I've routined it in a way where you notice, this is a thread where you're getting like multiple reveals from like cloak and the wave, but I've structured the routine in a way where you're doing the same thing three times, but the perceived impossibility of it is changing. So the first time I'll ask somebody to choose a color by putting their face up or, in them, covering up with their hands, and I'll ask them a few questions. And these have changed over the years. They've gone from like what's your favorite ice cream to like what's your favorite smell, and of course it doesn't really matter. But the idea is that those are cuing me to the answer and I'm able to say right, so brilliant. So you told me that that means you've taken off red. I say right, we're going to. And then I say right, but without the questions. So they think it's getting more difficult.
Speaker 1:And this time they choose the color and I'll turn around and let's say I know they're thinking of blue, I'll change the pace, the timing of it and I'll turn around and very quickly I'll say oh, everyone chooses red after blue. Sorry, everyone chooses blue after red. Have you gone blue? And I just get a laugh just from, like they've taken ages. First we'll answer the question and then just speeding up and saying not, everyone does this after this, and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm really predictable, whatever. So you get that one.
Speaker 1:And then for the third phase because I think I mean you're on the background, you know like three acts and three phrases always works better. So, um, but the third phrase. Then I'll say right, so this time I want you to mix it up, so you don't even know what color is on top. And so they do that and I'll say, right now, take a peek, because otherwise I'm not going to know, I'll just be guessing. And they take a peek and I'll look in their eyes and what I want to do is because it's the sort of the crescendo, the routine, I want to be in control of the timing. So I've got six cards which is the side which are pointing the blockers on and I'll look at them and I'll show them the six cards and say, right, so not the color that's on top, can you name out loud any other one color this year? So they say green, and I said and what's the first green thing that comes into your mind? And they'll say a tree. And again, this is just some pseudo process. So then I'll up the card, turn it around so everybody can see the yellow card.
Speaker 1:So everybody, like I, quite like for the ending, I quite like to be in control of that timing of the reveal. You can make sure everybody sees it, everyone knows what's happening. You're not relying on somebody who's peeking over a small thing and you're not relying on their reaction to sell it to the rest of the audience. So, um, so yeah, once again, it's about just maximizing every single bit of value that you can out of your props and getting these multiple routines, and it also means you don't have to so many tricks in your set if you're performing for to fill your five, six, seven minutes. Wherever you're doing, each group um and yeah, it just goes really nicely. And so obviously that's your six colors, so it's a little bit more impossible than the four colors from earlier on. Um, but yeah, that's my, that's the routine I could perform. Sleepwalking I've done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's so many times it's one of those tricks as well, because, uh, myself and harry, we both do the md mini, which is, uh, the same sort of vibe as inside out, and we both have discovered that it becomes a challenge trick. So it becomes something that everyone around the table suddenly wants to to have their go at. Um, and they want to try and catch you out. And what I really like about what you've done there is um, sometimes they'll think that there's a mirror or there's cctv or any number of bizarre things that are completely impractical really. Um, but they seem to think it is, and by having them turn to a colour that not even they know, it really cements that there is no way that you could be seeing what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. I've had people accusing me of wearing Google glasses and in fact I turned that into a line. I said these are not Google glasses, they're Tesla glasses or something, or spec saver glasses, and it gets a little bit of a laugh. But I think it's important because, as much as it's a bit of a laugh, it also means they're not going to think that go forwards, because you wouldn't draw attention to it if that was the method. But I think that just is testament to the strength of the, the method and the trick, in that people are just really reaching for anything because it's so clean yeah, and I think that that's something I've noticed recently is the amount of people that are asking whether I'm wearing smart glasses.
Speaker 2:So, you know, highlighting that at the very beginning is a really smart move, I think. It is very good. So what did you put in your fifth spot?
Speaker 1:So this is where it deviates from the traditional order of the set because I wanted to add this in and absolutely not trying to score Bromley points for the David and Alec O'Donnell release. It's one I think would be a little bit overlooked. I think I'm the only person I know who's performing it and it's by Brian Caswell, who was absolutely brilliant, more famous for perhaps Cataclysm and Trilogy, etc. But this is Pinnacle. I love pinnacle. It's my bride and groom trick. Um, so the it again. It's another card trick, um, but this.
Speaker 1:I normally have a different sector of bride and groom, so they wouldn't have seen Gork and Bwade. They see slightly different things, but, um, the premise of this trick essentially is they can name three different playing cards. All the playing cards have numbers on the back and as a performer you know, or you could have predicted, what numbers are on the back and the opportunity that it gives you, and it took a while before it became a bride and groom trick. But two things again which I had to get straight to my mind. The first thing was well, okay, why have I got a numbered deck of cards? And then I sort of hop back to the story where, well, when you shuffle a deck of cards. It's 52 factorial different combinations, which means that in all likelihood a well-shuffled deck of cards never has or never will be in that order again. And I tell a story. This is where I like to inject a bit of my sort of personal life as well. I tell a story about how I've got a little daughter, and when she was young I gave her a pack of cards to play with and then gathered them up in the order after she'd finished, because that order then was absolutely uniquely individual to her. And so when I end the counts in that order, I number them one to 52, and then they've got just like a little unique memento. And then I set myself the challenge of let's try and learn to do a magic trick with it, and that's that's how I introduce it in terms of the reveal.
Speaker 1:I wanted something special for the bride and groom, and so how I put in Pinnacle is I have a number written in felt pen on the back of the card box and I say to them right, so we're going to play a game with this. You're going to choose three cards and when we add in that, we're going to see how close you get to the number that's on the back of the deck and so the three cards are named. Take that on the deck and at the start you've got a folded card which also goes in the card box. So there's nothing else to remember. And on the folded card I've written um off by one. But just right. So so they add, and of course they haven't seen this, it's folded.
Speaker 1:So they turn over their three cards. We add the values up and let's say the values add to 51, for example, and you show on the back it's 52. And you say, ah, it's no problem, I'm going to use my eviction card here, because if you see it says off by one. So you get your first set. It's like, okay, you knew we were going to be off by one. It says but just right. And the just right is because when you spread the cards out, the three numbers that they've chosen, are they a wedding date? So it's like 26 11, 24 was the 26th of November 2024. And that moment when you just and I don't even say is their wedding date, I say they are, but just right. And then you spread the three cards over to show that they've named three random cards and they've predicted their own wedding date.
Speaker 1:It's some of the some of the best reactions I've ever got and, um, it's a bit of a one and done in terms of the way, the way the method works when I want to do it at the next wedding.
Speaker 1:It has to be set. It has to be set up again, so there's a there's a small cost involved, but you can obviously include that in the cut and however much you're charging, and maybe a little bit of preparation. But I like to think that there are some magicians who are just taking things off the shelf and performing those and that works for them. That's fine. I like to pride myself on people seeing something which they've never seen before, and to have something as personal as that where, yeah, they've literally named any three betting cards and they've accidentally signed their own wedding date is, yeah, some of the strongest magic I've ever done to an already emotional bride and groom. So quite often you get gasps and tears and things. So it's, yeah, it's brilliant, but I just wanted to shine a light on it because I do think that it hasn't had perhaps the focus from people that it deserves.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, brian Caswell. Certainly newer magicians to the industry may not have heard of him. His tricks are always so ridiculously clever. He's one sort of in the same vein as Steve Cook. As soon as you see the name, you know that there's going to be something really clever about that trick, and the way that you've changed that and evolved it is really really clever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got a standalone one set up where it predicts my daughter's date of birth, which was engraved on the back of a watch, because it meant I didn't have to set that up all the time, and it fits in with the story about her mixing up the cards, and that's where it started. So they'd choose three cards they'd miss and they'd say look at the watch, and the watch would have Sophia's name and did your book in grades and that would match three cards. And that's when I saw the potential of like okay, it's a little, a little bit of work, but it's absolutely worth doing for Bride and Groom.
Speaker 3:Hey guys, Harry here from Alakazam Magic, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. I'm just here to interrupt and tell you a little bit about the Alakazam Magic Convention. It has taken us 35 years to get to this date. However, May the 9th 2026 will be the very first Alakazam Magic Convention. Now I know you guys are super excited, maybe just as excited as we are. First of all, the venue is a 37 minute direct train from central London. The venue is then literally a 10 minute walk from the train station. There's hotels within a stone's throw, there's restaurants nearby and there's incredible food and drink on site. That's all without even getting into the magic side of things. We are going to have four incredible lecturers performing throughout the day, including one person who's going to be flying over to their very first UK lecture. We are buzzing to announce who those four are. Not only that, there'll be dealers on site and a place for you guys to jam and session and meet new friends.
Speaker 3:Where are the lectures going to be held? This is my personal favourite bit about the Alakazam Convention. They're going to be happening in one of the cinema screens. That means fully tiered seating, comfy seats, a drinks holder and there will be a close-up camera on the jumbo cinema screen that will be giving you close-ups of all the little nuances that you're going to need to see when the lecturers are performing. There will, of course, be a full gala show to end the evening off. You guys are not going to want to miss it. The great thing is as well. On the Sunday, the day after, Alakazam Magic Shop, which is a two-minute drive, will be open. So if you're heading down to the convention, why not stay overnight and come and visit our magic shop? Remember May the 9th 2026. Tickets on sale now at alakazamcouk.
Speaker 2:See you guys soon. Yeah, well, I think that's a great trick, and if people haven't seen it, I have just looked at the website and they've actually got an offer and I will not tell them about that. So hopefully it'll still be an offer at the time of this going live. But that leads us very nicely into a number six. So what did you put in your sixth spot?
Speaker 1:So number six is a little bit broader. It's something that I like to close a close up set with just because of the impossibility, and that is a drawing duplication, a close up drawing duplication, a close-up drawing duplication, and allowing very much a method collector, and sometimes it'll be with a peak device, like if I'm used to Zapd Assassin, I've used Luke Gubal-based Fox, I've used Luch's Blade, the Orphic Wallet, the Lookout Wallet no, the Hideout Wallet is the one I'm currently using by Paul Carmazzo, no, lookout wallet is. Or even a and a full stack of billets where you can get the information. Don't you see that by the time I've performed some other stuff to them? When it's time to really leave them with something impossible and you ask them to do a simple drawing, you just go yeah, yeah, there's just nothing. There's just nothing to follow that, and for a long time I mean the fox by liquid quality was used at the store. A lot of my like wave etc. Fits in really nice and it's also lovely because it allows you to get two bits of information at the same time. So for a long, long time I was doing a celebrity and a drawing at the same time and this was one of my favorite moments.
Speaker 1:I got two sort of stories about drawing duplications, for the first one performing in a cocktail bar, and so I find out the information, and two girls relatively drunk not, no, not drunk but they were having a good night. And then one of them had written the name Dolly Parton and, without seeing the other person, had drawn a pair of boobs. And I was like this unfalculous. I told them right, I'm just really going to play on the connection here. So it's also how long have you known each other? Asking me how we've known each other for years and years and years. We're like sisters. We've almost grown up like yeah, but there's no. You definitely didn't see where each other were. No, and you couldn't have introduced each other. No, and I said, because I think so, I'm gonna put my prediction here. But before I even turn my prediction up, I wanted to show what each other has done, and so they show each other and of course they're laughing and they can't believe it, and then you just build better when you turn over and show you've failed it and that was yeah. So I suppose the message there is be fully prepared to take credit for coincidences because it's happened in the past.
Speaker 1:My other favourite time I was doing them. Oh well, actually this was when I was using the staff case to do my Steve Cock again and I can phone the drawing duplication, and this is at the friend's wedding and somebody came up and said oh, can I have a go? And this is where I sort of got it wrong, because what they actually meant was can you read my mind? What I thought they meant was can I have a go of being the mind reader? So in my head I'm thinking, oh, this will be fine, I'll let them have a go reading my mind. It'll go wrong and if you see, that's how difficult it is and I can turn around and perform it back on them. But then I thought, you know what, let's, let's, let's try something. So I said, right, yeah, no problem. I gave him a pen and a card. I said, right, so I'm going to think something. I said I'm going to give you a clue and it's not going to be something natural living.
Speaker 1:Because I thought, obviously, with banachek's work etc, I don't know, he's kind of going down a route and I drew a picture of a house. Sonny expected him to maybe have got it wrong and see, like, how difficult it was. So he comes back over and, um, he says, okay, I've drawn mine, what have you drawn? Slides in over my house and he'd done a house as well and he literally jumped in the air, literally left the foyer. How did? How did you make me know what you were going to draw, which was just uh, and the photographer was perfectly placed. I think it's still one of my promo shots on my website now. Literally he's got his pen in his hands, jump, jumping up in the air.
Speaker 1:And again, it was just one of those moments where let's, let's just see what happens, let's just have fun with it. And um and I think that comes from experience probably um, just up, and the confidence of knowing, okay, if this doesn't quite go right, you know what, I'm taking it afterwards. And, um, and again, being a psychological performer, it's like, okay, it didn't quite go right, oh, you did really well, you don't? You don't think, like most people, you, this next one's going to work really well with you. So, having these sort of stock lines where you're able to get out of these situations but yeah, every now and again, you really do get gold yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:Now, when you get people to draw things, have you experimented with what you get them to to draw? Have you ever done words? Have you ever sort of themed it to a certain image?
Speaker 1:with things written down. I definitely have. I've done teachers, um, I've done. Yeah, a pet's name? Um, I learned. I learned a lesson at a wedding where I asked somebody. I said, right, so I'd like you to write down, write down a name, but not somebody who's sure. Now and for whatever reason, they wrote down the name of um somebody who was watching their deceased dad, and so of course I didn't. I didn't know why is that. So I revealed it and they were absolutely happy to yes, this. This person was really, really happy and but she was crying and I afterwards I thought, just the optics of being booked to entertain guests and somebody seeing that from afar it didn't constant comfortably with me.
Speaker 1:So that's when I sort of pivoted into, yeah, celebrities or and or simple drawings and, um, not trying to restrict them too much, the one line that uses and keep as it when I'm the lovely day, keep it clean, because of course, you will have people who draw rude things and there are ways and there are things of like. I think, um, I didn't ask for it to be life-size either. Here's a stock line that that you can use, but I prefer it. It is something, yeah, so I I keep it quite open um, in terms of just just a simple drawing.
Speaker 1:You can draw a sort of 15 to 20 seconds um, and maybe again, this is trying to get into the mind of the participant, but maybe later then they might think, oh, I wonder, maybe a lot of people draw that and say, well, I wouldn't have done a car, I would have done a tree or a house or a flower, or so it kind of lends itself to like put putting them in under time constraints maybe gives them a bit more pressure and allows them to think that, okay, well, maybe every, maybe most people, when you give them that amount of time, think they draw that, and then I think that just adds. Well, maybe most people, when you give them that amount of time, think they draw that, and then I think that just adds to the belief of the skills you portray.
Speaker 2:Great, well, what a great list so far. We started with B-Wave, then Cloak the Gamble Inside Out Pinnacle and a drawing duplication. So a very fun mentalism set so far, I would say. And it does lead us into the tail end. So we've got number seven of eight. So what?
Speaker 1:did you put in your seventh spot? This is where I pick myself up. I put one of my tricks Genuinely. I perform it all the time and it's easy toes. I don't like to perform with more than one script deck, even though I mean we obviously. I punch holes in the corner and I'll put a key ring on it so it doesn't look like a deck. It's something that I think I don't want to do too many things, and this is another reason why I like the gamble. I like inside out, the different props on the table, so it looks different. But, yeah, at the end of the day, I'm really proud of it. It was looks different but, um, yeah, either, identity I'm really proud of. It was my first release for the major magic company, but easy tones is another one.
Speaker 1:I just keep going back to the again, the psychology of colors. So it all fits in because it's an interesting prompt. Um, it's relatable, it's instant recess and it's mind reading. Well, the routine I do is the first one on the project, which is the mind reading and prediction. So in my mind, you've got you've got the best of both worlds there, where you've got a really strong display of direct mind reading, where there's 50 cards with four colors on each. So you're talking a one in 200 shot there. And the prediction. Again, the prediction is on display from the very beginning. You've got such a fair display of all the colors and, yeah, they choose a color and they've had that end plug in their hand from the very start.
Speaker 1:It's different to all the other routines that, um, that I've done previously as well, um, and I always have a little bit of fun revealing is I talk about it on the project different ways you can reveal the colors being thought of. So, for example, the one I'm like doing at the moment is where? So they're thinking of a color and I say, right, you want to imagine you're in a very dark room, a bit pitch black, and when you your fingers on the light switch, I'm going to count out three to one and click my fingers. In your head, the click of the fingers is the click of the light switch and when the light comes on, that room is lit up in this color that you're thinking of. So you count down, click your fingers and then you do your best, acting. It's like, oh yeah, I can see the color. Now it's uh, and then you're able to name the color. So, um, it's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's probably the thing most I'm most proud of as a release, um, and it is really well received. So I'm really, really glad and I've genuinely performed it. I've seen with everything, everything I've ever released, I think it's which I perform, so I knew, I knew it works, yeah, and I've got. It's weird I think this is only talking about the least, because it's hard when it's one of your own, one of your own projects. But I think, yeah, I really do like it, like I like the method the, the method, the props yeah, it's one of my favorites.
Speaker 2:well, for me, when I first saw it, there was some you put some really, really clever methods in there and I remember sitting down seeing it again. That's so, so clever, and I think what I really liked about it as well is the hands-offness of everything, the fact that it feels like a really organic prop. And even looking at your list, when we look at your list, other than playing cards, everything else is very organic. You seem to have an organic approach. When you look at agility those are top trump cards your thing seems to be organic, everyday props that live in the real world yeah, and I'm with easy tones.
Speaker 1:This is where I mean craig's involvement in the project. So I was, I showed it to lloyd and he liked it and said he'd like to release it through murphy's. But he was talking about it to craig and at that point the core method was there. So, um the deck, there's different things in different parts, and the core method was there. So, um the deck, there's different things in different parts, and the core method was there. And craig said well, look, there's some real estate there that's not being used. He said that they has. And that's that's craig's challenge.
Speaker 1:We hadn't come up with some of the routines at the end as well, but what he really did, the value he really added, was pushing me to think what can you, what else can you do with it? What else can can we put in? And that's where I took it away. And this was nice. There was no pressure in terms of right, it's got to be done by this state. It was a case of no, it gets released when it's ready. And so we were able to go away, come up with the other stuff which really tied it in the two core methods then really cancel each other out in terms of the presentations and yeah, I absolutely got Craig to thank for that, because if it had come to market in its original state which it may have done, I mean it's still a viable product, but I don't think it would have been anywhere near as well received. In terms of the final one, Well, it's a great choice.
Speaker 2:In at number seven and leads us to your very last item. So what did you put in your final spot?
Speaker 1:Well, I know, earlier on you said that you might get shot by Pete, but I thought, if people have stuck through this far, I might give them a little synopsis of an idea of something that might be coming out in the future, because it's in my work as set. Again, it's something that I seem really strongly about, about, I think it's a really, really, really good project. Then it's like some people locally perform, perform it I know dan shard in smoke mirrors enjoys performing it and, um, yeah, so again, not too much information, but I'll give it, I'll give a brief overview of what happens, and that's. You're playing the game again, so it's quite, it's quite friendly.
Speaker 1:Or you're with a group of people and they're trying to match a number which is on the reverse side of a card, um, so they generate some numbers and when you turn the card over, they got it wrong. Um, so you turn around to say, oh, it doesn't matter, I mean the prize is only going to be this, and you're able to show that the prize was a lottery ticket. And at this point they realize that all the numbers that they've made are the numbers on the lottery ticket. And, yeah, I love it. I think it's my like when somebody says oh, could you tell me the lottery numbers? This, this is where I pivot into, and because, even though at the start they don't realise this lottery trick, retrospectively then they can put two and two together and it's just a load of fun to perform. So, yeah, it's a lowly choice in terms of getting the release, but if you see me perform, no doubt you will see me do this trick.
Speaker 2:Well, I can exclusively say now that I have just had a message through from Pete saying that we've just had the samples in for this, so this is something that is coming soon. We've done this in other podcasts. So I'm really sorry, guys, but we're not going to talk any more about it because we can't, basically, suffice to say, you'll find out about it in the future. It's an absolutely phenomenal trick. This was bought before I was a part of the company, so I had the joy to learn about this as my time with Alakazam has gone on. It's just so good. I cannot wait to film the trailer for this, because I think getting the reactions from this is going to be good fun.
Speaker 1:If there was anything we adapted in my comments, then that's genuine.
Speaker 2:We don't want Pete after us. All right, I want to keep my job. Thank you guys. So we will stop that there. But what a great list. We've got b wave cloak, the gamble inside out, pinnacle drawing, duplication, easy tones, and I've just put tba to be announced. All right, it's not even ninjas, it's not even got a name yet. So you know, just look out for rich's name, it'll be that one. Yeah, okay, now, obviously, rich. We've given you eight tricks, but we've only given you one each of these last items, so let's start with your banishment. If you were to dig a big sandy hole and throw something from the magic industry in there and cover it up for forever, what would it be?
Speaker 1:So I mentioned earlier on, I was toying between two and the one I didn't go with was worrying about justification. I don't. I use these props. I do these things. This is how it works. Why do you have to go back into the? Why do you have to put the card into the wallet again? Really, don't worry about that. You've been with people for six or seven minutes. That's probably not the bit they're going to remember, but that's not the one I went with in the end.
Speaker 1:Um, the one I went with was um competition, and I don't mean magic competitions. Um, I find that a lot of there's a lot of professional magicians yourself, we have a lot of really, really good professional magicians, and what I've noticed is it's quite strange that when you're sort of exhibiting at the wedding fair etc. Sometimes they'll only book one magician or other magicians will be like well, I'm not going to exhibit there because there are multiple magicians, whereas if you look at photographers, they could easily be, six, ten, twelve photographers and speaking to some photographers about this, and they said, well, I meet the couple, I'll chat to them, they can see my style from from the books they.
Speaker 1:And if they like me and they want me to be there this special day, then I get their business. And I think, well, that absolutely should be the way for entertainers as well. I think there's plenty. There's still plenty of people getting married. There's still plenty of opportunities for gigs and I think that we shouldn't worry and take things personally.
Speaker 1:I mean mean if somebody, I mean they're very different performers. I mean, for example, down there we've got Harry Harrington. His style is holes apart from myself. You've got Lance Bowen with the more traditional magic. You've got such different personalities that only having one magician exhibiting at a wedding fair, I think it's probably doing the industry a disservice because they don't realise how different people could be. And I get it. It's a lot of money to spend to exhibit at a wedding fair and you think, well, maybe the potential customers is going to be reduced. But I genuinely think that if you want your bride and grooms brides and grooms, whatever to have the best day and they're going to choose somebody where they like you. You perform your tricks, they like what you do. You show them what to do and move on from there. So I think, yeah, just that element of competition between professionals, and maybe that's a little naive of me, but it will be nice.
Speaker 2:So I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:I think you're absolutely right when you say having several people at a wedding fair and like there's how many times you go to a wedding fair and there's more than one photographer or videographer or wedding cake maker, or you know what I mean. It's great for people to have choices and the most important thing is you want your client to like you. Important thing is you want your client to like you. You, you want the testimonial at the end, you want you. So I always liken it to a comedian. A comedian is in a really interesting position because they know that everyone in the room with them has the same sense of humor as them for the most part. So they are already winning at that situation and we need to be that when it comes to like wedding fairs. If we know that we get along with our clients and our clients are warming to us, then we know we're already a step ahead. We already know that more than likely, it's going to go better for us.
Speaker 2:So I think you're absolutely right. Having different styles doesn't hurt anyone. So, yeah, I think that's a great banishment. That is there. So that's on your island, um, but that does lead us to your book. So what did you put in your book position?
Speaker 1:so this is the one where people might be a little bit surprised, because I'm a reader, I've got an extensive library and there are books like I mean some scott creasy's books, this's phil's mythology codex, and do it back and start. A piece of my mind, architect of my mind, mickle murray's a piece of my mind. It's so so many even recent mentalism books and bane fake genius, like I mentioned. There's so much stuff out there. But I decided to go back to the book which I think I reread the most. This was quite a while ago. I came out and, to be honest, I think I think I initially bought it without really appreciating who the author was, how sort of good the book was going to be, and somebody I said I think it was my wife. Actually I need to get something for Christmas present. So I gave it the name of the book and, um, it turned out to, yeah, like I said, to be the book I've re-read over and, over and over again and I've got it here and it's High Calibre by John Bannon. I just think that there are a few things. I mean the simplicity and the elegance in some of Bannon's creations and routines are just so inspiring as a creator.
Speaker 1:High Calibre is a collection of some of his older work, so I think there are maybe six or seven different books or booklets that went into it. Yes, there's Practical Car Magic, six Impossible Things, open Notorious, med Wave, bullet Party, tribodical, one Off, all In and Shuffling. So from 2008 to 2012 is sort of a compendium of all of his work. The variety there. There's packet tricks, there's false cuts, there's his work on multiple shifts, there's published packet tricks I mean Spin Doctor and things like that is there. Banner and Triumph is there. There's origami prediction, his work on the mirror skill principle, his open prediction and even at the first book, that's six impossible things.
Speaker 1:In terms of routine, in the set it's basically one pack, one deck of cards and the different effects you have and, as a creator, that's what I find really inspirational is going back. Is there any way I can make I think elegant is a really nice word Just a combination of methods. There's a lot of work there with what he calls fractal, which is where you end being, because that's when a bunch of mosquitoes are on you, and the way things are described. I mean I've very rarely had a situation where I didn't understand what he was getting at. He had all these technical carpools in there. So, yeah, if I've ever got a deck of cards, I'm probably doing something from there. Mentalism will come later, which I also thought was absolutely brilliant. But yeah, high Calibre for me was great to the point where 2018, I took my copy to Blackpool. I'm like I can show Jamie here. I'm like a proper fanboy. I approached John Burner and he signed it for me, and so it's really one of my prized possessions from a magician who I admire a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he is an absolute legend, isn't he? He's every book that he puts out, and I think it's quite telling with recent books like Hush Hush and Queen Spirit, that he really obsesses over certain plots and certain ideas and he really picks them apart.
Speaker 1:I mean everything he's wrote, since this is as easy as that. Whether we'll see the Godzilla, which he's mentioned a few times, which would be his sort of magnus opus, I don't know. But if not, I'm more than happy with the collection I've got. And, yeah, it's a nice change as well, I think, when I perform and create a lot of mentalism. To read something that's not is great. But then, yeah, I mean open prediction, classic mentalism plot as well, so it's definitely, definitely crossover. It's probably the place on my bookshop.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a great choice and leads us to your very final thing. So this is your non-magic item that you use for magic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not a phone, that's where my mind went straight away. But I do have some magic apps, but I professionally I try not to do it just because I know that there's a lot of other musicians, I mean some girls, who use them relatively frequently. So I'm like, right, okay, if I'm looking for a US piece, something like. Last thing I want to say they've seen this before. Somebody else has done it. I'm assuming that because I'm allowed a drawing duplication where I've got Sharpies and billets and so I'm thinking that's part and parcel there.
Speaker 1:So, on a similar note, I've gone for a very big box of envelopes. I think that, yeah, coin envelopes specifically so versatile for medalism, I mean you can gaff them. I mean somebody's probably done a project with a 1914 on gaff envelopes, I'd imagine. Not too big project there.
Speaker 1:Yes, you've got gaffed envelopes that you can use for switching, for peaking, for even pocket management, keeping sets of cards in to keep them in a certain order, et cetera. You can absolutely do that, even for a prediction. I mean if a prediction is in an envelope they're less likely to turn it over, knock it out, ruin the timing of something. Yeah, and maybe for one of the easy tones routine I do a mini confabulation and just having something in an envelope so you can pull the prediction out piece by piece, and then it just builds and gets a little bit more, little bit more impressive. They just, they just so much of talent.
Speaker 1:If I'm doing arts and crafts, it's probably with coin envelopes, just getting them, and the part of my lecture is a switch envelope that I'd come up with, which that's one of the things on the netflix actually, um, and so yeah, I just think they really I don't think they are underrated, I think they're rated, but it's definitely something that I need to take with me on my island well, it's been a while since we've had someone skirt the rules a little bit there because, uh, you've managed to take with you, uh, billets and pens and now lots and lots of envelopes, which means at this point you could chuck a little q a in there somewhere.
Speaker 2:Uh, what do you mean? Now? I think that's absolutely true. I think, uh, I'm such such a big fan of coin envelopes. Well, envelope magic in general. I think it's such an organic prop, it's something that doesn't need explanation. I think that's what's so important. The very presence of the prop tells the audience what its intention is. The whole point of an envelope is to protect your personal information when it comes to your residence. Therefore, there's no explanation that anything I put into that envelope, I'm putting it in there because it's going to be secure, so you just don't have to say anything. It just does what it needs to do. So, absolutely great choice and a great list. So one last time. We start with B-Wave Cloak. The Gamble Inside Out, pinnacle Drawing, duplication, easy Tones. To be announced for number eight Banishments is Competition. Your book is High Calibre by John Bannon and your item is Coin Envelopes. What a great mentalism set.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah, like I said, it's all I know. I know obviously it's a weird scenario to put this out in, but I thought, if I'm going somewhere, okay, there are some tricks which are nice to practice, etc.
Speaker 2:But I want to take my working material that I know well, no works, just getting indigenous people on sound yeah, I think that's great, and what I really like is you've got a couple of routines in there which are customizable as well. You know, inside out customizable. You've already talked to us about pinnacle and your version of that with the wedding couple and then drawing duplications. You've spoken to us about different ways that you can go with that, so I really like that you can adjust this to the turtles if they appear on your island one day. I think it's really good how you can take this in different directions, really yeah, and I do.
Speaker 2:When you're performing, you hear something, you react to something and yeah, that's the fun bit of a performer well, if people want to find out more about you, rich, and they want to find out about your lecture and your products, where can they go to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, just Google it. I mean. So my name is Richard Gerrish. My teacher when I was eight said Gerrish sounds a bit like relish and it's stuck. It's been my nickname ever since, so that's why I think agility is actually in the rich. Garish is before I decided to use rich relish. So yeah, I'm all over social media responses for the releases. Yeah, just google my name. I think.
Speaker 2:Uh, you're not gonna get anyone else other than me and obviously keep tuned to alakazam as well, because you'll find out about, uh, rich's number eight, um, because, yeah, obviously we can't say anything more about that, but it really is superb. So please do go seek it out when it comes out, but we won't tease it anymore. Well, thank you so much, rich, for your time and thanks for giving us such a great list.
Speaker 1:No, thank you. Thanks for asking. I really enjoyed it. It's a nice sort of mental conundrum to puzzle through.
Speaker 2:Well, and hopefully we'll see more of your tricks coming out in the future. Do go check out the Net Tricks as well, but for now we are going to go. Of course, we're going to be back next week with another episode, so until then, have a great week. Goodbye.
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