Jean Luc Bertrand

The magic that stays with you isn’t always the trick you can describe, it’s the feeling you can’t shake. That’s where our conversation with French magician, creator, hypnotist and theatre performer Jean-Luc Bertrand begins: the rare moments that make a seasoned performer feel like a five-year-old seeing impossibility for the first time, and how we can build shows that give audiences that same hit of wonder. 

We get into the effects and performers that shaped Jean-Luc’s taste and philosophy, from Garrett Thomas’ legendary ID-style miracle to David Blaine’s extreme commitment and Derren Brown’s masterclass in scripting, structure, and hypnosis. Along the way we talk misdirection as intention, how to avoid performing on autopilot, and why the best professional magic is really about “writing memories” for people at the most important events of their lives. 

Jean-Luc also shares what he would banish from the magic industry: the lack of meaningful copyright norms and the casual attitude toward copying. We explore why originality is harder than buying the latest trick, and why ethics matter if magic is going to evolve. Plus, we tease Jean-Luc’s upcoming Murphy’s Magic release, the JLB Coin, and what makes it feel like real superpowers in the hands. 

Jean Luc’s Desert Island Tricks: 

Welcome Package. Card Under Tablecloth 

1. Drivers Licence Trick by Garrett Thomas
2. David Blaine’s Frog From Mouth 
3. Derren Brown’s Card Under Box
4. Creating a moment for a single audience member 
5. French Fries Production 
6. JLB Coin 
7. Yann Frisch
8. Music Box Effect 

Banishment. Lack of Copyright in the Magic Industry 

Book. The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho

Item. BIC Lighter 

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

Transcript

Talent Versus Real Craft

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And this is gonna be really hard to hear, but I don't think that uh to be a magician doesn't require a lot of talent. It's easy. You just buy whatever trick you want at Alakazam and you can impress people the next hour. Because we don't need so much talent, like like we were talking about Jan Frisch, the guy is the master in card magic. And we did a gig together, he starts to do a little bit of it. He doesn't do mentalism, but he did something with like a kind of a book test. The guy killed the the guest, the gig, the audience, with cards that he was doing at the table. He killed it, like so strong. And the client goes, Ah, that was great. But by the way, the trick with the book that was amazing. And you're going, God my god, there's years and years and years of preparation, and just one simple, you know, book text that doesn't require any job.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

We

Meet Jean-Luc Bertrand

SPEAKER_03 1:23

are in for a treat because today we have our first French guest, which I'm very excited about because I grew up knowing this man's magic, and he has stepped away from the magic scene over the past few years and is coming back punching. He has some incredible, incredible magic coming out. He was very kind to send me a clip of one of the tricks that he's got coming out, and it looks absolutely incredible. I think many, many people are gonna enjoy this. Uh, and I I don't want to say too much because uh it's not my place to say, but if we're lucky, he may tease it. Now he is someone who's worked in this industry for many, many years. We actually spoke about him recently in another episode because he also worked on Magic Kids, which was a television show in France. He was also a contestant on, and I'm gonna absolutely butcher this. I do apologize. Uh, La France un incredible talent. I'm gonna say that that was horrendous, but we're gonna go with it. I also had some of his tricks growing up. The one that I really remember well was non uh no smoking, which was a brilliant lighter effect. I would say that there have been versions based on that over the years, but that was kind of the originator of that style of routine, and it was absolutely brilliant. I think it's gonna be such an interesting list. He works a lot now in theatre and certainly in hypnosis. Uh, if you go onto his website and you look him up, you'll see a lot of hypnosis and stage routines going on. So I know this is gonna be such a brilliant, brilliant list. I'm really excited to talk to him. Today's guest, once again, I'm gonna butcher the accent, is Jean-Luc Bertrand. Hello, Jean-Luc.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Man, this is so nice of you. Thank you, Jamie. This is that's very kind of you. Thank you. I'm I'm very, very, very honored and very touched to be uh to be you to be here with you.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Well, I'm very excited to have you here as our first French guest. Now, uh, you wouldn't have known this, but a few years ago uh at Blackpool, we actually had a pool of French listeners who actually came up. They live in France, they're fans of the podcast, and they actually said, You need some French guests on.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

I just want to tell you, I love to, I'm so happy to be on your show because I think you're doing an amazing job. I love the way you bring, you know, the good out of every magician. Uh when you talk about them and the way you bring everything. And I love this postcats uh podcast. As I was telling you earlier, I usually run when I'm listening to your postcats. So so that's that's the length of my run. So maybe I do two for one podcast. Uh so I feel like this is really weird to hear you and me being sitting here. It's very weird. I feel like my my body needs to move. But I you're doing an amazing job, Jamie. And uh and and that being said, thank you a lot for having me. I'm I'm very honored.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

That's very, very kind of you. I'm glad that it's uh reaching so many people, which is great. But the the good thing about this kind of podcast is we get to hear the insights to different people from different parts of the world, all of their ideas, their thoughts, kind of what the magic scene is like in in other countries, because I don't know what the magic scene is like in France at all. I've got absolutely no idea what it's like. So uh your set list and your your magic tricks and what you're interested in may vary completely from someone who's in our country or maybe in America.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

I I don't know if my set list will be because I listened to a lot of you guys, you know, uh and go like, ah, I didn't know what I'm gonna say, and I'm just like, you know, giving numbers, you know, blah blah blah, which I really doubt it's true because when you hear at the end, the list is very, very well put.

Staying In Love With Magic

SPEAKER_00 5:19

So so and I don't want to go like, oh my god, it was so hard to choose. To be honest with you, it was hard to find the right, I it was not to choose, but it was hard to find the direction. And once I've I felt the rhythm of what I wanted, what I wanted to express, then everything was super clear.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

So, does your list compile of some of your older stuff? Because obviously, you've been in magic for many, many years. I mentioned knowing about your stuff when I was much younger. So, does your list comprise of a lot of your earlier things and a mixture of some of your new things, or have you just gone for some of the newer pieces?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Okay, to be very honest with you, my list comes with nothing of my work. You know what, in a certain way, it was great because it was very much of an introspection of my what is my magic today, what I do today, after I've been you know in the field for 25 years, working, you know, like living as a magician. Once I found the rhythm of why, and you will understand what is what, I understand that this is everything that manufactured my work today. I mean, I I don't want to go and just like give you, you know, my product A, my product B. You know, of course, when I'm performing, I'm only using the stuff that I do. That's what I I master, you know, and I know how strong it is. But here, yeah, it's it's a things that make me lie, make me love magic, and the reason why I'm still here in the business, and you know, the whole evolution of magic over the 25 years that bring me to talk to you today.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

It's a really interesting perspective as well, the idea that you know you're choosing the the magic that still makes you love magic. You said that you've been doing it for 25 years. That's a long time to kind of fall out of love with magic because one of the things people say is when they're performing the same routines over and over again, they go into autopilot, and it feels like there's no love, there's no life, and there's no soul in what they're performing. It feels like it's just something they're doing without thinking about. I think it's really nice the idea that you're putting this list together that makes you want to perform every day, that makes you want to be a magician still, all these years later.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

If anyone is performing in autopilot, you know, they should literally shoot themselves in the hands, you know, not the heads, but you know, make sure that the hand is not working anymore. Because we're doing the most emerging job on earth. We we as I say to my clients, when people are hiring me, um, because I I so like many people, I I I do a lot of you know uh private events, I tell them I'm not I'm not your regular magician, I am here um to to write memories for your guests. And it is what I found out because I've I've been performing magic for so long, I've had people hiring me to celebrate their 20th year of wedding. I've had I've been hired for two divorces. I was hired for two divorces of people that I that I did a wedding 10 years before, 15 years before, and I even uh did uh one funeral. So so the autopilot, if you are in autopilot, there's no there's no way you should be an autopilot. Because this is so strong. What we have in our hands and what we give to people should never be in autopilot because they're giving, they're paying us uh to to celebrate a moment for them. There's no way it would be any anytime in autopilot. And also, if they come to see you on stage, they buying tickets to come see you on stage. Autopilot is no no, there's there's there's no way. Even if you and and and so and for the routine that I've been doing for 20 years, even that I still find stuff uh like a little a subtlety, a detail, like maybe a little line, you know, a little something that makes that act, that that that that that uh routine 10 times stronger. And even my show, so the the the show I was performing in Paris uh for five years called Magic Box on the very last day of the very last show after the tour, after everything, after we perform in Blackpool, after uh we were in a in a theater in Paris for two years. I mean, after all that, the very last day, I found one solution for the final effect, which I never liked. Actually, actually, I found a solution of that special effect in Blackpool, and I got lucky enough to perform three times after Blackpool, and then and then we kill the show. There is always this little something, and if you're neutral pilot, you can never reach there.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

So

The Desert Island Rules

SPEAKER_03 10:04

let's get onto your list then, because I think this is going to be really interesting. Now, if this is your first time listening, the idea is we're about to maroon Jean-Luc on his very own magical island. When he's there, he's uh allowed to take eight tricks, one book, one non-magic item, and banish something. Of course, he does have that welcome package as well with a deck of cards which we've introduced for season three. Now, normally we would go in with that uh welcome package, but Jean-Luc has asked to get straight into his list, which I'm not angry about because I'm really excited to hear what this is. So, Jean-Luc, I'm super excited. What did you put in your first spot?

SPEAKER_00 10:41

All right,

Garrett Thomas And Pure Wonder

SPEAKER_00 10:42

so this is a big dilemma I have because I was so happy with my list. That made sense, and I listened to Mark Lavelle the other day, and he mentioned one other thing that but he did not mention that particular thing as one of his lists, but as part of something bigger. But I'm gonna give it to you anyway. So, my list, number one, the first trick is uh Garrett Thomas ID card. The first time that I saw a misdirection trick, like you know, like card to the box, you know, card on the box, I don't know how you call it, you know, the cards uh performed just for me at my place, uh in in Thousand France when my parents were living at the time, and it was Chad Long who did that. So, because I didn't want to go in for Garrett because of Mark Levitt's proper situation, and then I okay, I need to think of it. No, but I will stick to Garrett Thomas because I think Garrett showed me that effect. It was David Stone. We were working with David, we were releasing, I don't know what we were releasing. One of the many things that we released with David, and he told me, you need to go and see Garrett and ask him for the ID track trick. I remember the feeling I had, and it made me feel like I was a five-year-old kid watching Magic for the first time. I do not remember what it was. I know that you hand him a card, your card, your ID, because the the guy is American, so he has uh like you know the ID, what do you call like a driver's license? Driver's license trick. You know, it's so it's the size of a of a you know credit card. I I don't want to, I don't want to ruin that effect, but it's one of the strongest magical effects I've seen in my life. And at the same time, Chad Long, I mean, it was way before, that was maybe 10 years before that. Chad Long did that first misdirection effect. And god, the feeling of not knowing what's happening, that is something that I think really built, you know, uh uh my work. I haven't seen I had not seen Mark Lavelle for a while because he was not he was not around uh for a little bit. And uh got to see him again in Blackpool. So good to see him. I love the guy, and I'm working on a new trick to end my new show, uh, which the premise is a card to pocket. Okay, but basically, and that's what I did in Friends in a Spanish Got Talent in a semifinal. I'm standing in front of the judge. Tell me any card you want. He said blah blah blah, and that card it really is in my pocket. There's nothing stronger on earth than this. So, my purpose now is to recreate that with no side of hand. And so I talked to Mark uh about that, and he showed me his car to to pocket effect, which I've been doing for 20 years, and bam, I got back into the Gary Thomas feeling of like, oh my god, I don't know what I just happened. So that's that's that's it. The uh the Garrett Thomas driver's license to whatever memory I had.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

So this is uh for those that haven't listened to Mark Lavelle's episode, number one, go listen to it because it's brilliant. Uh, but in that he references uh Garrett Thomas and says, if you ever see Garrett Thomas, then ask him about this trick. And that is the trick that we're talking about now. Um, but what I really love about what you just said, Jean-Luc, is you know, you don't necessarily remember the full routine, but you remember how it made you feel. And I think that as we go through our journey in magic, we get that feeling less and less because we're kind of jaded to the magic industry. So when we have those moments and when we feel them, they really stick with you for a long time. So it's lovely that Mark managed to fool you uh and give you that moment again.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

But it's also lovely that I have goosebumps because it's true, because it's it's the it's the feeling, because that's something that I say in my show. It's never about the trick, it's about the moment that we share. And I'm realizing by telling you, by making this list of eight, that the first thing that I that impact me is something that I don't remember, but I remember the feeling. Well, we've I don't think we've had that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

I don't think we've had a lot of people on the podcast talk about an effect that they put in just because how it made them feel, which I think is really interesting. I know that we had Richard Young talk about doing flying on his list because you know he just loves the routine, but he didn't necessarily talk about it from the perspective that it just made him feel amazing when he was younger. So I think it's lovely that that you're kind of still chasing that feeling. Um, and now you're trying to give that to your audience and your spectators as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, yeah. It's like I mean, we talk about cards when we get to talk about cards, but when Chilon uh showed me that routine, it was you know the random, you know, explaining me if you need to put the card on the box, you need the intention of moving away because you want to do a spread. So because you do the spread, you go and reach the deck and you move the deck away. And so, because of this, blah blah blah blah. I mean, you know the drill, right? So I got a chance uh at a time to teach magic uh to people who were asking me, and I developed my own routine because I was teaching uh uh this is years after Chaglon showed me that. Uh, and

Misdirection That Feels Natural

SPEAKER_00 16:31

I was teaching, and I created my own, you know, car to the box, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Um uh and eventually one day I was doing a TV show in Paris, and at the end of the TV show, I was performing my thing, and I needed uh to have I wanted to have all the cards back together into the box, and I did a switch of box, you know. A couple of days after that, I'm I'm doing a private gig uh for for for a shop in for MS inauguration, and I'm in the same situation that I was in a TV show two days before. Like the box is empty, the cards are in my hands, and I'm thinking, wow, that would be such a great finale to end up, you know. But I I didn't have the extra deck of cards to make the switch. And in front of everybody, I put the card into the box, closed the thing, put it back, and and that was the strongest reaction ever. And then I realized that so many magicians thought of that, like after years and years, you know, I put it in my DVD and stuff like that, and and you're thinking, okay. And I'm thinking that it's it's the way we think, and it makes it so natural, you know. At the end of that, it's just like the way uh uh feet, uh I mean legs move, your right leg goes in front. Well, the most natural thing after that is that the left hand will go in front, and that's the way you start working or you start running. And I think that you know, man in magic, like some you look at what you have and boom. So now talking about card the cards in the box to be the finale. I tell the audience before I start, I'll tell them the ending of the trick, and I'm telling and I tell to the guys, guys, at the end of the trick, I love my job so much, I put so much passion into it. So I don't know why I do that. Maybe it's a challenge to myself, but to tell them in advance what's gonna happen and let them get hit by it, I think it's 10 times stronger in the audience reaction.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Okay, well, that's a great one in a number one, and I also know that we're gonna have lots of people commenting on the video. Does anyone know what this trick is and has anyone seen it? It's gonna be one of the ones now that I think everyone's looking for, this Garrett Thomas trick. Um, we've had it mentioned twice nearly on top of each other, so it's gonna be a great one to look for. But let's move on to number two, then, John Luke. What is in your second position?

David Blaine And Total Commitment

SPEAKER_00 18:56

The second trick will be David Blaine's frog coming out of his mouth. So bear in mind, these are no tricks that I will ever do because these belong to those guys, this is their trademark. There's no way I will do that thing. Okay, so to me, this guy reached a level of magic that no one ever reached before in life. I love David Copperfield, the guy is a childhood hero for me. I I've had such an amazing time, but the level that that Blaine reached is is is is is crazy. I went to see a show in Vegas. 1500 people okay. We're talking about American people, they go nuts when you just do the finger thing, you know, like they they go, oh my god! Like, you know, I mean last week I was in the Magic Castle. Yeah, this these are these reactions are beyond I mean, reason. I saw David uh doing people having a senior version for a card under under the watch. Of uh we're talking about sanguation of 1500 people, of one guy being on stage, like an audience, and he and the card is under the watch and people go crazy. There is something beyond like I don't I don't understand uh I don't get it. But he does something that nobody else does because I've been doing card under the watch for 25 years, 30 years. I don't get that. I don't get that at all. So talking about the frog, uh, the way that the guy does the frog thing, uh so uh for people who don't know, uh basically he's just there, he's doing whatever trick he's doing, and suddenly he goes and a live uh frog comes out of his uh throat into his mouth into the bottle into a glass of water. And there's no trick. The frog literally comes out of his mouth. There's there's there's there's there's no trick. So the the way he did he did it uh in Las Vegas, uh he mixed it uh borrow ring, make the ring disappear. I think he kind of swallows it, obviously, or or pretends to make it disappear, but put it in his mouth. I remember exactly the premise how it goes, and then suddenly like the trick is in his uh he borrows a hanger and swallow the hanger into his throat, pull back the hanger, the ring is there. People freak out, but not only is not that there comes a frog. I mean I mean there's there's no logic to that. It's crazy. It's it's so a few years ago I'm I'm hired to do um magic uh for Dave Chappelle. Uh I'm the guy is a is a genius for me. I mean, it's one of my the guy is amazing. I mean to me, it's the best of the best of the best. Okay. Even at the time when I got to see him. And as I'm performing, I'm doing the thing that I'm doing and work great, and I love and blah blah blah blah. I'm just realizing so many a few months ago, he had David Blaine producing frogs out of his mouth. What am I gonna do with a car trick? I mean, come on, I might just as well, you know. Hey, by the way, thanks for having me. Give your money back, you know. So, so anyway, so the reason why I'm talking about uh Blame's frog is that no one will ever match his commitment. Ever. I mean, the amount of work that the guy is doing to get that, and let's be honest, the problem we have in magic is that too many people are doing everything else that everybody is doing. So I believe that no one will ever perform that effect because not because out of respect of the copyright, out of respect, no, nobody will ever do that because it's so hard, it's dangerous. I mean, the way to get a mouth out a frog out of a mouth at some point, you know, he's not building a mouse in his stomach, you know. Um, and and that's when you know the limitation of Magic Creative is uh if it's so hard and so dangerous, nobody else will do it. And that for me is a good lesson of who we are, the type of work that we do. I believe that we should make like a lot of effort not to do what everybody else is doing. Like, I love Double Cross, what a brilliant idea, and I think it's a great, great trick. And I understand why they created it, and I'm sure this they sold thousands of those, you know. But I don't know one magician who's not doing it on Instagram, and and that's a pity. And and also it reflects the commitment of the guy, but also the amount of research that has been done with for that.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

I I guess it so to me, I he he reminds me of like a modern-day Houdini. Now, stay with me. Um, so the idea was you know, Houdini used to do these insane stunts, he used to put himself through absolute turmoil, you know, he created a publicity stunt. When he used to do his upside-down uh escapes, he would put it outside of a newspaper just so that all they had to do was look out the window. He used to do these extreme stunts, and when you look at what David Blaine has done over the years, you know, he had buried alive all the way back at, I think it was at the end of the 90s, and then he went into the uh the glass block and he created these huge stunts, and then he does these extreme things where you know he's projectile vomiting water and uh gasoline, and then he's bringing up these frogs, and he's taking skewers and pushing them through his hand, and uh, you're absolutely right. The level that he will go to makes him a legend, I think. You know, he is gonna be another person that a hundred years later people are gonna still be referencing in the same way that we're still referencing Houdini and some of the crazy things that he he did all the way back then.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Uh I'm I so agree with you, and I think we are so lucky, you me, everybody, that we live in this era where we have David Copperfield, uh uh David Blaine, David Williamson, uh uh uh uh you know Jan Frisch. I mean, God, this feels so good. I I that I started doing magic in 1997 in New York when I I had you know I had a regular life before for five years. And you know, financial, you know, the Wolf of Wall Street, you know, the you know that's exactly what I was doing, you know, uh, minus uh the drugs and the dwarf and the tigers. Okay, but the text, what the Leo DiCaprio is doing is exactly the same text I was quoting to people to take their money, anyway. So, long story short, I made a huge contract with a guy. I made a huge commission with this guy, and the guy dies three months, uh three weeks after. And I'm like, okay, that's it for me. Life is gone. I took a backpack and I went to New York. I arrived in New York and I started doing magic in restaurants. And when I was working, a lot of people were telling me, Oh, have you heard of this guy? I think his name is Devin Blaine. And and and you you hear of the name as you're working, you know. So, and then you realize what the guy is doing, and you go, like, yeah, like you've got your own way, buddy. This is brilliant. Like, you're a master.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Okay, so we're gonna take some frogs with us to your island. Um, yeah, obviously, because I'm French.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

That's that's that's an easy one, Jamie.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Uh, we'll give you some snails as well, then, in that case. Uh, we'll give you some of them as well. Let's go to number three, then, Sean Luke. What did you put in your third position?

Derren Brown And The Power Of Script

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Uh, it will be Darren Brown, showman, uh, the hypnotists and video bits. Obviously, you're a big fan of Darren Brown. Um, you know the trick. I love most of Darren's. I mean, I've seen all of Darren's show, and I and I was very lucky to see them live. So, this is another aspect of what I love about the work is the structure of the show, of building a stage show, of uh doing the line like uh words by words and not changing it for you know from Tuesday to Wednesday. That's how strong the material is. And the basic of everything is the script. And for that, Darren Brown, it's it's it to me is master of all, you know, better than anybody else in in terms of the structure of where he brings you from the beginning to the end. And and also the sad thing about that is that I haven't seen one uh magic show in France that didn't start uh with the jar. And please write down something and put the jar inside. And my god, I want, I mean, I want to burst a ball when I see that. You know, this this belongs to him. Why do you copy this guy? Why, why, why? Not a single magic show in France was not with this start, and that hypnotis video that it did uh it is a trick. So Blaine, uh Gary Thomas, there's no way I could have thought of that. That's you know, but that mix of hypnotists and magic and video, basically, it's what I've been doing all my life. I've been doing you know, magic DVDs and you know uh production and stuff like that. Hypnotist I've been doing for a long time. Magic, you know. So at some point, you know, but there's no way on earth I would have had this idea because the guy is a genius, and and what was built into that it's so strong. So, just for your audience, to make it short, he brings a guy into the audience. Um, and oh, we get back to the card into the box trick, actually. I did not think of that. Hey!

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Hey, this was the part in the show where it was a card on the box, effectively. Um, and he shows several demonstrations of a card going underneath a card box, and each time it gets progressively more impossible, uh, to the point where he has put the card box on a shelf, um, which is hovering above the stage, and he basically shows that he's using hypnosis to place uh have someone place the card on the box without them realizing, and then there's this big gut punch where he does it to the entire audience, he makes the entire audience in the theatre forget a couple of seconds of time, and like you just said, you said that you got to see this live, and it's very different than seeing it on video. So when I saw the recorded version of the show, it wasn't the same at all. Uh, but when you were in that theatre, when they play that little clip at the end, and the whole audience sees that moment back and they're aware that they've they've lost time in their imaginations. It was like a Mexican wave of WTF that went across the the audience. It was just gasps all the way across the theater. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

The first time I saw that effect, I went, I was on my own, and actually it was a bit after COVID, so we still had the mask. I ended up on stage with Darren because we're doing the hypnotist parts, you know, and I'm like, I wanted to feel what it was. I I don't get hypnotized, okay? Uh, but I wanted to, you know, I was on my own, you know, nobody was watching me. Uh, I was very happy. I was it was in Leicester, Leicester, I okay, great theater, and and I'm doing that. And maybe I don't know why, but my hands were actually struck. I never get hypnotized, but you know, when you're standing up, something was happening, you know. And you know, and there I was, and and he's bringing people to the side stage, to the side of the stage, asking for their name, you know. So, of course, I've been doing it for a while, you know. I I'm I'm not gonna, but was I hypnotized? Maybe because I didn't want to fight, you know. So, but to have the feeling and having Brown, Darren Brown doing it to me, that was Christmas. Okay, so he goes to me, so we all had the mask, you know, and blah blah blah, and we're there. And uh, what's your name? And of course, like under the mask, I can't say my name, you know. And he says, You, you, you, and you, boom, go on stage. And I end up on stage, but I'm not gonna say no. I I'm on stage and I see Darren Brown in front of me. So he does bits of like uh uh uh amnesia, and then at some point he asks to to take my my mask off. So I take the mask, and you look at me and he goes, he goes, Oh, like, like, okay, but well, he's not gonna say hello Jean-Luc, how are you? You know, but uh I don't even know if you know my name, but whatever. You know, he goes, like, oh, but like and he and and I'm looking at him. I've seen Darren Brown doing, you know, when you want to do the handshake and and and stick your head, uh the hand on your head, and like and and looking at him, he's he's a few yards in front of me, and I'm thinking, oh my god, he's gonna do that to me, and boom, I'm on the floor. I was so happy, I was so happy. So, anyway, but I wasn't the guy for the box because for so many reasons, I'm sure uh it was on me at the end. So I went back into the seat. So that goes intermission. You're sitting, you know, and so we took a picture, blah blah blah. That was great. Hey, how are you? So happy to see you. Go back into the thing, and then he does that thing with the card into the box. So the first time I saw it, I did not understand that the audience missed those few seconds. I only understood because I came back to see the show again. I brought my son and my wife a few, like a few weeks or a month after to somewhere else, I don't remember where it was. And at the end, we're talking about somebody with somebody like, and I love the fact that people are communicating. I love the fact that they're talking about, you know, like oh that was you know, they talk about it. And she says, I wasn't hypnotized, but at some point, I guess I was because I I skipped those five seconds, you know, one, two, three, five, bam, and and I'm like, oh my god, and this is genius. So so that that trick, that trick to me is amazing. The fact that people he made the whole audience doubt, this is pure, this is this is genius.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Well, I think it's a great moment. It's one of my favorite moments from any of his shows, uh, being in the theater during that moment when you know, because when you're watching the show, you see that part happening, and you you think, oh, that's cute, that's cool, but it it kind of ends at that point, and then when he shows the additional clip at the end of the show, that's when you go, Oh wow, that's that's so clever. That's yeah, it's got that's got me.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Uh yeah, I I I I agree. This is six sense level effect, yeah, yeah. You know, it is yeah, it really is the same strength of a masterpiece, but we get back to what I was telling at the beginning. It's the structure and the writing of the script, and and in terms of magic, I think it is one of the strongest magic memories I I have, and I'm and I'm very happy I had that feeling, I don't know, four or five years ago when he did that show. That means that I was a grown-up and I was, you know, I was in the field for a long time. Like those strong memories didn't come back from childhood memories of watching, you know, uh David Kapoorfield fly, you know, uh, or doing the the hearse, you know, like not when he gets cut in half. I had my grandmother sitting next to me. I was 14 or 15, and I remember the the what do you call the nails of my grandmother getting to my flesh when the the the Censo cut David in half. Like she had no idea who the guy was. I just said, please, please, please, please, let's go and see him. You know, she was taking me to the theater, she had no idea what we were gonna see, and we want to see that. And like, she didn't know the guy, she didn't care about him, but suddenly she's a guy that got cut in half. Well, she cut my arm. We're lucky to leave in the time of those guys, and and you know, do you know the um uh what I was telling you about all the magic shows starting what do you call like the billets when they write down like um because for instance in in France we don't have QA. It's something that you guys keep talking about, the QA routine. We don't have QA in France. I wonder why. Yeah, we don't have the name, we don't have the name QA. Question and answer, it is not something that is in our vocabulary. If you said that to anybody, uh, do you know uh question et réponse? Nobody knows what it is. So just the structure of the word QA doesn't exist in France, the trick doesn't exist, but they all have their billets, like the thing, like what it I mean, it's kind of a QA eventually. So because I hated that, when I wrote my show Magic Box, I hired uh Luc Germay to consult on the show with me because I wanted the mentalist part to be I didn't want anything written at all from the show, which was you know, like you put your you know, your rules and you say, I don't know what I want, but I know I do not want this, this, this, and this. And so we worked for I don't know, maybe 10 days in Paris. He came with his wife and amazing thinker. Love the thinking of the guy, but it was a while ago, okay? And and that rule of not having everything written restrict all the mentalist possibilities that you can have.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

Great. Um, but I'm just really glad that you put a Darren Brown trick in there. Um, I I I I could do a whole episode just on Darren Brown moments because I think they're great. But we should move on to number four, then, John Luke.

Sending Audience Members Away

SPEAKER_03 38:09

What did you put in your fourth spot?

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Darren Brown, there's no way I could have had this idea because the guy is a genius and you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. But I would have loved to have such a such an idea. And then again, it's not possible because there's a budget restriction. He's performing in 1200 seats, you know. In France, the you know, the the the larger the venue I was was like 600 seats. So anyway, so number four, it is something that I kind of did in a different way. Uh okay, let me bring you the contest. In my my previous show called Magic Box, so basically that's the idea. I had a box, like a cube. Uh and I'm telling the audience, okay, um, uh, a good shoe is a good opening, a good ending. Uh, the rest of the show, you we don't really have it. So we have this box, it looks like a cube. Uh you know, like um like a dumb well, yeah, fair enough cube, but you can hold it in your hand. Um, and you guys are gonna name objects, it will come out of the box. So if the and we will do the the whole show with whatever you say. So if you don't like the show, well, that's on you because that's what you chose. So obviously, that's that's a premise. Uh, obviously, every night is the exact same object that comes out of the box. I mean, we're talking about an hour and a half show, so it's there's there's no you know surprise. Uh but they basically understand so the whole premise when I get into doing the mentalist part, it is so strong on the audience. It's it's a it's a 12 minutes bit, you know, like there's magic and fun and laugh, and you know, you know, I try I try to be funny and they have a good time, and you know, blah. But when the mentalist comes, it's kind of serious on them. There's little lines, little, little you know, outs, but the audience starts to go, like, okay, now he's gotta have stooges, you know, it doesn't make any sense because it's too too powerful. But which I don't, by the way. Uh and I get back into making a joke, and I just go, okay, so usually people think that I have stooges, or people think that you know I have powers, or but there's always one guy that doubts, you know, doubt doubts than more than than the other. There's always a septic in in in the place. And tonight the septic is you. So it's a guy I I I keep you know joking, you know. This is one guy in front of me that I keep going back and forth and having fun with him. And I say, you know, by you know, let me prove you that I'm maybe the the best mentalist, you know, in the world. And I'm making fun of that because I'm not. And I say, Let me do you want me to prove yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh there's an envelope outside of the theater, like by uh at the box office. Go and get it, and you come back on stage. You will come back backstage, somebody will bring you back up. So as a guy leaves, let's pretend that the guy is missing the best trick on earth. And so basically, I have 600 people that are just getting ready to make a joke to one guy. And the fact that the guy is going away and he's doing his thing, and he comes back, and when he comes back, like I say, okay, you you know, let's put music on, like Las Vegas style, like uh, you know, and so we've got pyrotechnic, we've got lights, we've got uh streamers, like we put the whole budget in at you know, minute 45 of the show, and the guy walks back in with a prediction in his hands, and he sees that like he can hear, and everybody is doing a standing ovation, and it makes no sense for him. And I love the concept that we're making fun, we're not making fun of my game, but we are all having fun, and this guy is completely lost, you know, and it's and the feeling is great. Uh shit, I'm I'm sidetracking again. I don't know, but so anyway, uh, so I love the idea that everybody's you know uh having fun into this situation, and so one idea that I really love is from Derek Delgodio and Kurt de May had a similar idea. Uh Derek Delio in his show In and Out of Itself, and uh Kurt Demais is a Belgian magician, mentalist, brilliant guy. Um, and so at the beginning of the show, Kurt de May and uh uh Derek de Gollio they ask somebody to leave the audience, not to be there for the rest of the show and to go away. So, in the case of Derrick de Glodo, he says you come back tomorrow. Uh, and in the case of of uh uh Kurt DeMay, he says, You go outside, uh you will you will go somewhere, but you will come back at the end of the show. And I love the concept that you have people coming to see the show and you you send them away. And so, in in the case of Kurt De May, so the guy is telling this is he's so strong. I don't remember exactly how it works out because I only saw it once, but he's telling one guy to leave. I mean, two people to leave, so they're together. They I think that they have audience members put their key into a box or something like that, and they pick a random set of key, they decide wherever whether they want to go, like on a map, they work somewhere, and they end up in a in a flat. And once they are in the flat, they call back the theater, the the magician. And whatever the person on stage was describing is exactly what the flat decoration is. I don't remember exactly, but the idea of that is super strong.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

You're creating a moment for a single audience member with within the show, just something really unique for them.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Exactly. And and it's two different uh shows in once. Like in the court de may, I know because the the the natural choice, like of like say, I don't know, maybe it's it's through a paper or whatever, it cannot on me. And I knew about it before going to see the show, so I didn't want to leave. And I said, No, you know, and I didn't want to be a pain, also, because I know, but I mean literally, bam, it ended up like I was the guy, and uh, but my son was next to me, and uh so I think he was 18 at the time, and he says, Yeah, he knew, and he says, I'll go, because he wanted to see the show on that side, and and we knew we were gonna you know share, and you know, but but he so told me that the guy he was with, who was another random choice, wasn't happy of leaving the theater. Like the guy was complaining all the way, like, yeah, but what is happening in the show? I pay my tickets, but that aspect of making the magic, because it all pends uh uh you know the the fantasy of the people watching the show, what is happening to the other guy? That that would be my number four.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Well, it kind of again, not to bring it back to Darren Brown, but it's something that Darren does an awful lot in his show. So he I know that there was uh one of the shows where he puts someone in a coffin during the interval and people can come and see it, and then uh that's so strong. That's in famous, right? Yes, that's the one. Um, and I think in Showman, he does uh a thing where again they put someone on a stretcher and they take them off the back of the stage and they teach them how to read and then put them back on.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

I should have talked about this. I forget about this. Is the strongest magic moment I've had in my life. That opening of showman. The phone rings, she picks up the phone and falls asleep, right? This is so strong. What else do you want to do? But that opening of making somebody like fall asleep with Hypnotis on the phone. Oh my god, this is this is this is genius. Period.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Well, I think that's great. The the idea of creating a moment for a single audience member is brilliant, and you've mentioned some incredible shows there. So let's go to number five then. What did you put in your fifth spot?

SPEAKER_00 46:42

So

The Copperfield Fries Story

SPEAKER_00 46:43

a long time ago, a client of mine, of a customer of mine, um, tells me, Oh, I read an interview of David Copperfield and Claudia Schaefer, you know, and so it was at it was at the time of David Copperfield and Claudia Schaefer. She's telling me, you know, whatever tabloid magazine you would have in in UK, like Vogue. So she's telling me, Oh, I read in Vogue that Claudia Schaeffer, blah blah blah blah. And she's talking about David Copperfield. Okay. And I I think maybe because I that I don't I don't ever I don't think I would have ever had the occasion of doing of reading that. I might have been at the hairdresser, and I'm looking, and it was the cover of David of uh of Claudia Schaeffer, beautiful, stunning, and I'm not into blondes, but god my god, she was stunning. And and she still is actually. And I'm looking, and she's talking about you know, uh my rencontre, my uh what do you say, uh the day I met David Copperfield, you know, and so they were very much in love, blah blah blah blah. And she's explaining that she went to see him in Berlin when because so Copperfield came to Europe, nobody knew of him at all, maybe in UK because of the English language, but I know that in Europe, in France, Spain, Belgium, Germany, nobody has ever heard of him ever. Uh uh 30 years ago. I mean, and so what they did is that they needed to have an open situation so that people would know about him. So he did a previous show uh in Berlin, and the story says that he has uh uh to have people that would be famous to come to the show so they can talk about it. So that it was a planning of maybe like a one year ahead. And so uh he met uh Claudia Schiffer, you know, they became and and they ended up being in love. Uh uh, but then he became so popular that you know he got to be known in Europe and then he did a European tour. He got to meet her, they did he does a show, and he's she's invited for with him to have dinner in the restaurant. And she's saying, he's talking to her. So the interviewer says that they're talking to her, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Uh very fancy, elegant restaurant. And she's telling David, oh, by the way, well, to be honest with you, I'm not very big, I'm I'm not very keen on you know that type of food. My real thing would be, you know, uh French fries, French fries from the McDonald's. And you go, Oh, wow, really? That that would be your favorite thing. So let's say that they are in a five in a three-star restaurant. He takes his napkin, like turned into his hands, unwrap the napkin, and there's a hot box of McDonald's french fries inside of the napkin in the middle of a of this three-star restaurant. And I'm reading that, and I'm thinking, ah, that is so not true. That is so not real. That's uh, you know, that's that's I don't believe that. And then I'm thinking, okay, this is me being stupid, not believing this is happening, but what if this really happened? Like, what if this is really and I think this is one of the strongest things that I've read that influenced me that much because my whole work came for that. If you have an idea, it comes from the audience, and you you create that idea, it becomes magical. And I'm just realizing as I'm talking to you, that that is the premise of the show I was telling you about, Magic Box, because basically people are saying things, they are inside, and we do the thing, so maybe it just you know made her say that, you know. So that French Fire story, after thinking that it was a fake and it was just journalists, you know, writing a romantic situation. I went like, okay, what if it's true? And I think that influenced all my work after that.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

Well, I can kind of see from your list so far, um everything feels a bit otherworldly. It almost feels like you're um uh if you did this as a set of tricks, you would be the messiah, basically. You would start a cult, you know. You've just coughed up a frog from your mouth. Um, you've made people forget about time, uh, you've created this incredible moment for an audience member, you've produced something, some French fries for someone, even though they've just mentioned it on the spot, in you know, without any preparation. These are the kind of tricks that would make you godlike, I think.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Actually, yeah, we're not doing the the little island set of yeah, of Jean-Luc Bertrand. It's it's the yeah, the ideal magic show.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

Exactly that. But that being said, so I know you you're not uh keen on talking about your own stuff, but the trick that you've got coming out with Murphy's, that feels like one of these kinds of tricks, you know, this idea that you can you can affect and influence the world around you in a really strange and unusual way. You know, it feels very spontaneous, there's no props involved, other than something that, you know, is a normal organic thing. It feels very godlike in its approach, I would have said.

Custom Deck Sponsor Break

SPEAKER_02 52:44

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SPEAKER_00 53:26

I

Teasing The JLB Coin

SPEAKER_00 53:27

actually this this would have been in my list, that that trick. So shall we move to this to this part of the list?

SPEAKER_03 53:34

Yeah, so if this is your number six or you want to talk about number six, let's go for it.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

So basically, yeah, it it that so that is called a JLB coin, uh, as you mentioned, and and I think it's one of the things that every magician would have always wanted to perform.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

Now, I'm gonna be entirely honest, I don't want to tell you exactly what it is because I feel like it would be a disservice. This needs to be something that you need to wait for the trailer to understand how incredible this is, because we've had effects like this over the years, but they require a more extensive setup. You're not gonna be able to do it in the real world necessarily. This is anytime, anyplace, anywhere. It's in the middle of the street. The the clips that um Jean-Luc sent me were literally out on the street. You know, someone brings out this object, something absolutely ridiculous happens with this object. Um, and the the the phrase that I spoke to Jean-Luc about before we started filming was someone says on it, that feels absolutely unreal. That feels incredible. Um, and yeah, I don't want to say anything more than that because I think you need to watch the trailer to understand how incredible this looks.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

And and and and and bear in mind that what I sent to you is not the official trailer, it's just bits of what we shot. Um, I'm very happy I'm producing that with Murphy's because usually I always produce my own thing. And to be working with Titanas and working with uh George Tesoro. What a brilliant set of mine.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Well, we won't give anything more away than that. Um, but suffice to say, Jean-Luc has shown me it, and uh, you'll understand when you see the trailer. I don't want to say anything more because you you have to see it to really appreciate how amazing it is. To see what Jean-Luc has done with this comparative to the version that came out with another company a few years ago. Um, this is far and beyond the best version of this I've ever, ever seen. And I would be surprised if this isn't on future lists. I think it's brilliant. I really do. I'm glad that you put it on there. I think it's gonna be a great release. Uh depending on when you're listening to this, it may be out. Uh, so check out JLB coin. Uh, but we are now on the tail end of your eight, Jean-Luc. So we're at number seven. We've got two more, seven and eight. What did you put in your seventh spot?

SPEAKER_00 56:00

The number

Jan Frisch And Storytelling Magic

SPEAKER_00 56:01

seven will be Jan Frisch. I don't know if you ever had the chance, and I'm talking about the real sense of chance of seeing him performing magic for you. Well, to me, Jan is the best magician on earth today. Uh it there's no other way. Uh and this guy, I so he came to see my show, and we had dinner with him and and after, and my kids, and and my son said I I I was born into into magic, like you know, my kids grew up with David Stone, with uh with you know, Jan Frisch, with uh you know, whoever, you know, they were born watching, you know, David Williamson, like you know, had them in the lap when they were they were babies, you know, like they they were born into magic. So there's things that they they understand. I mean, Babel, you know, everybody. And he says it's it feels like magic for real. And I went to see his show last Saturday. Uh except apart from France, nobody knows uh what he does on stage, and he has three different shows that are absolutely insane. And I mean, like one is like a suicidal, suicidal uh clown, uh, it's called Le Syndrome de Cassandre, uh Cassandra syndrome, you know, uh where basically the situation is that uh uh the problem of not being believed because of your situation, and let's say it's a clown and he says, uh guys, you need to evacuate because there's a fire in the theater, people are gonna laugh. So that's that that that's that's the syndrome. Um and the magic involved is absolutely insane. It and it's not magic that you see like ta-da, it is magic happening all around you. I mean, all around him. So you don't see one magic trick, you see a magic uh life, which I believe magic should actually be. Yeah, if if there were something I I could have on the island, would actually be yeah, Jan Frisch, that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

So we've we've had a few people break the rules and take a person onto their island. So Jan can go with you, um, but I don't know a huge amount about Jan Frisch, but I've seen obviously clips um of him, and he comes across a bit like I would say, like Tobias Dostel, um, in that he he thinks differently, he thinks whimsically, he thinks kind of just in a dream-like way. He can see an object and just see the potential in that object the way that we wouldn't normally see it. He he's just a completely different thinker.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

Yeah, I agree. Um, and we were it's actually Jan who told me this. So credit to Jan. We were talking about stand-up comedian uh Saturday night, and he says, uh George Carlin um said, like on one of his shows, he said, explain uh stand-up magic is very easy to explain what it is. It's basically everyday momentum that you always leave, but you just forgot to laugh about it. And I agree with what you just said about Jan. Like, there's a trick I've I've never been fond of. Maybe people are like they're gonna switch off the the podcast now, but I can, I don't get it. You know, any card, any number, it's never any card, it's never any number, it's it's never it's never the promise. Okay, there's always a moment where the guy is touching it, and and I I've never understood uh why it was always a big deal. It uh let's say this way it's just like if you're watching a movie and it's bad acting, and it don't get me wrong, I respect uh uh I can or whatever. But let's say that it's bad acting and they want to make you cry or whatever, or this guy is supposed to be dead, and you go like ah come on, or or just Santa Claus, you just realize that it you know doesn't exist, you know. And to me, the premise is so big, and I never understood why people would make such a big deal out of that effect until one day, actually two years ago, it was my birthday, it was my 50th birthday. Uh, my wife organized a surprise dinner with all my friends. Jan is here, and at 3 a.m. he started uh no magicians by the way, only Jan and I. Great party, great, I mean great dinner in my apartment. It was great. And 3M, Jan starts to do magic, and he does uh I can the best possible way ever, which is actually from Danny Dahortis. When you see him doing I can, all right, man, I understand. Now finally, I never understood anything until I saw you guys, but it's the first time when I saw I can that I'm like, okay, this is great. So I kind of try to do it, but I just can't. It's not my style. I keep trying and trying and trying, you know, and and I study the Danny the Archery thing, and I try no, it's not me. It's not no, that's it. But yeah, yeah, Jan's work is outstanding. The way, the way he sees things, the way you approach things, the way and and and it's he is one of the best storytellers that I think to be a good magician is to be a great storyteller. Like you don't see it coming, you don't see the number, you don't see it was so natural, so beautiful. So Akan wouldn't be the number six or seven or whatever number we are now, but uh but just the way it does lapping and and stuff and body language and storytelling, and and it's bringing you you don't know it's the trick is happening before he hits you at the end. To me, that's the that's the best magic effect possible.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

Okay, well, Jan Frisch is going with you on the island, uh, and he's doing the A can to you over and over again. So you're uh let's go to number eight, then John Luke.

The Music Box Dream Finale

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

What is in your final position?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

So it would be the music box effect that I created for magic box. So once again, uh it the whole show is bringing to this one moment when there's this one guy on stage with me. I'm using hypnotists, uh, which is great because uh usually it's a guy, I'm always doing that trick to one person, and this person was not part of the hypnotized people that were on stage, which is super strong for the audience because uh I'm officially telling that guy I am not doing hypnotist to you. Eight times out of ten, when I turn around, so I explained um I'm gonna put him back to sleep, uh, and it's not hypnotice. Uh, but we used to have this thing in France, it's it's it was like a stardust imaginary friend that the parents would tell you, you know, it's got stardust that would fall into your eyes. So we have the sandman exactly the same way. But I so I explained to the other and say, so we have the sandman, and I was always you know hiding, trying to wake up, but uh, the guy was so strong, except one day I sneak, you know, I I I I pretend I was in the bed, you know, I put a cushion in the bed, but I was actually behind the curtain watching him to come to put the sand. And I grabbed the guy and I took his sand. And in fact, it's not sand, it's actually stardust. That's what it's so powerful. That this is the whole story I'm giving, which is absolutely fake. Uh of course there's no sandman. And I say, So when you will see the stardust falling out of my hand, you will fall asleep. So the guy is back on stage, he's sitting on a stool, he's just there, he's not moving. I hold on to his wrists, uh, and I say, When when you see that, you will fall asleep. And I show my hand absolutely empty, uh uh, make a fist, and when I turn down, there is uh uh well, stardust falling out of my hands, and the guy falls asleep, which is magical for me, because like eight times out of ten, the guy actually fall asleep. And he's not you understand what I mean. He wasn't hypnotized or anything. I I don't get it, I don't understand, but this is what happened. And I put him back into his childhood, make him make a trip, you know, get back to your child, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Uh at some point you hear some music, we are in a place, you know, and when he wakes up, and it's something so beautiful because when those people so usually I take a man and I reduce the selection to be very, very, very clean so that the audience actually decides who person walks on stage. So I make uh elimination process, okay? And it's usually a guy between 50 and 60. And when they wake up, you can see in their face they were out, they were gone, they were back into their childhood. And also because I opened myself before in the show, and it it's a very intimate thing. And oh, I forgot the the the most important thing. When they are on stage, they have this music box that I gave them in their hands and they hold it from the very beginning. And you know the drill. Why was the music you? Listen, you heard when you were walking into your home, you know, whatever music it's they say, blah blah blah blah blah. They put the music book on the stool, they start to tune it, and that's the music that they have in their mind. I mean, that's the music that everybody hears. And it's beautiful because it's very organic, because it's wood, you know, uh you know, touching wood. I mean, the metal touching wound, and the sound is super organic. And you don't need any microphone, you can be in a you know, a thousand and two hundred people sit theater, the guy at the back will still hear it. He will not, he will have to to concentrate, but there will still be sound. And I love the fact that this magic trick happened with absolutely nothing. So, and it's usually the finally the final of my show. So that's the final of my thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:52

Well, I know that uh a second ago you mentioned that you've sort of moved your list around, but I think that's a great way to close out your list. If that's the ending of your show, it feels like the perfect kind of roundup for it. It really sounds like you like earlier on you mentioned about Jan Frisch, and you said that he was a great storyteller, but it sounds like you're you're doing the same thing, you're almost creating an atmosphere, uh, like a dream-like atmosphere in the the performance that you're performing in, and you're also referencing earlier on, you mentioned doing that one thing for that one spectator. This is that for you. You you've got this one spectator on the stage, you're sprinkling this sand, suddenly they fall asleep in this. And I'm guessing, uh, I'm just presuming, based on the imagery that I'm getting. Do you have some music in the background of the moment when they're they're closing their eyes and they're falling asleep?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

Wow, it's very this is very funny that you mentioned that because I used to do that all beach without any music, and I just lately had uh a very, very low uh atmosphere sound. Uh, but it's it's um I don't know the name in English, it's it's an uh an a nap, it's like a and yeah, actually it's very funny that you say that because I used to have that with why why made you think of that?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:17

It's just because how I could imagine it happening. I could imagine in uh you telling this story about the Sandman or or the fairy or uh whatever the the folklore is that you're talking about, just this moment and this kind of like whimsical music happening in the background and watching this person's eyes close. I can imagine it's just such a powerful, dreamlike moment in in the theater.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:44

It's true, and and also I'm very much into light lights, you know, like the the decor. I mean, I would spend hours creating light for for just one second of image. Uh and before I get into the music box story, I say in every magic show, there's always this moment where the guy, where the magician tells you about his life, talks to you how he became a magician when he was a kid, and then he talks to you about his his grandfather. And that is such a boring part of the show. And everybody laughs, ha ha ha ha. So I say, but because it's my show, this moment is right now, and I'm gonna talk about my grandfather. And I actually do talk about my grandfather, but I telling I'm telling them a real story about my grandfather, and and it's not boring, but I hate, yeah, this is I hate when you hear the grandfather's story. But yeah, so I bring them and explain my grandfather was a piano player, and and we we sold a house, we sold a piano. The only thing I have left with me is a tune fork. And that sound brings back to my childhood. You know, I was performing the show in the Alps, and this guy was 60 something, and he says, I was at my grandparents' home, and I was dressed as Zoro. Zoro? Yeah, you see a guy who's a grandfather, and he's talking about himself being dressed as Zorro. It is so cute, it's so strong. And and and when he talks about those the music, and you say, uh, when he starts, well, when you start to play that, you can see the face of the guy who's becoming five years, six years old again. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:26

Well, I think it's a great way to round out your list. Uh, let's go back over it. So you started

Card On Tablecloth And Prep Love

SPEAKER_03 1:10:32

with the driving license trick by Garrett Thomas, David Blaine's Frog from Mouth, we had Darren Brown's Card Under Box, we had Creating a Moment for a Single Audience member, as in uh Derek DeGodio's In and of Itself. Uh, we've got the French fries production, we've got the JLB coin, which I'm very excited about coming out. We've got Jan Friesch is a uh guest who's going to be doing the ACAN for you on the island, and you've got the closing to your show, which is your music box effect. That's a great, great list. We do still have your welcome package. So you put this from the beginning of your list to the end. So, what would be the one card trick that you would take with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

Uh the card onto the tablecloth. Basically, either you name any card you want, either uh it's whatever card you have. Uh, and I make it disappear visually in front of like like it's in my hand and it it visually disappears, and I pretend I'm putting it into the glass of water. Pick the glass of water, or better, if it's a glass of champagne, lift up and say, Can you see it? And obviously, nobody sees anything in it. And I tilt the glass and all the liquid pours onto the table. So you need to do that. It's if it's a very fancy place, create, you know, like where you don't spill water or champagne anywhere. But the provocation of that move is very strong because and then when you and then the liquid goes onto the white tablecloth, and magically their card appears on the earth, and it's it's super magical. That's I've been doing it for 20 years. If there's yeah, one thing that I yeah, uh yeah, but to me, okay, this is gonna sound very cheesy or corny, whatever you call you call it, but I believe that when we do a magic trick, there's a lot of part of love of what we do, what we put. Because obviously, a lot of tricks needs preparation. You need to do it ahead, you need to prepare it ahead so it happens. You know, a card on a tablecloth, there's no mystery. But if you do that instead of we're not, I'm not talking about a gig or you know, but like doing it for for friends or for people, if you do that and you do that ahead, well, you want to you want to please those people, you want to give them something. And the fact that you're thinking about them ahead, to me, the sign like you know, of showing respect to those people, of gingiving them. I I don't know if I may maybe I'm going too sidetracked, but I kind of get what you mean.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:24

So by going that extra mile, you're showing your appreciation for what you do, and you're you're giving them something extra special, you're giving them that extra special moment because you've gone that extra mile to prepare that for them, and they'll never know that you've done that, they'll never know you've gone to that extreme, but because you've done it, you've got this incredible magic moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

Yeah, yeah, there's this guy who's a great magician. His name is Matt Edwards, he's he works with uh Rodney in um in um uh House of Illusion. Uh and he does this this car trick, it's it's a car to do shoelace. It is the simplest trick on earth, but it it it did fool me. And and and so he he he uh at a time we worked together, he was working with me on a show, and he did an amazing job, and what a great talent, what a what a genius. And I I don't remember exactly what happened, but he stayed with my two kids. Uh he came back in train from wherever we were in Paris and stayed with them. And and at the end, like they were walking in the middle of the street, and he just did so. Basically, somebody tells you, Oh, watch out, your shoelace aren't tight. Uh, so he looks at them and says, Oh, okay. And then I don't know, makes you select a card. The card is back, take the card into the hand and spread the card to his shoes at the same time as is holding the shoelace, and your card ends up on the shoelace. Wow, out of nothing, in the middle of the street, and my kid is actually telling I didn't see it, but my son is actually telling me this. It happened at like you know, 911 25, you know, back from the train station, walking back to my home in the middle of the street, you know. So when you think of that, there's no other people, there's no audience, there's just him and the people. This is love, you know. I mean, I I don't want to give away the method, but you know, somebody spend their day for that moment to happen.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:44

Yeah, that's a great, great moment. So let's go on to your banishment then, Sean-Luc. So,

Banishment Copyright And Copying

SPEAKER_03 1:15:49

what are you gonna banish from our industry?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:52

What I would ban would be the lack of copyright um in the magic industry. I understand that the magic has evolved a lot and it became such a huge market. Um, so this doesn't apply to the trick that you actually create and you sell, and you want people to do it. There's nothing to do with it. Um, but like the the other day I had this guy who came on stage. I didn't know he was a magician, and I did a music box to him. I had no idea the guy was a magician, and and he told me uh literally last Friday, I bumped it to him. By the way, thank you for the music box because it's such a great trick. I love it. Say, yeah, yeah, sure, I'm I'm very happy. And I understand he's doing it. And and say, but it's you have the music box in your hand, not for you to perform it, but it was a gift as what you leave, you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so that that is something that yeah, the the lack of copyright that we have. I I think all the magicians that are performing on stage, you know, or even gigs, uh, that would allow to reduce the amount of magician there is. And I love the fact that there's I mean, I I'm in between the it's a very hard feeling.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:24

Uh no, so I I I absolutely agree. I think you're absolutely right. And I mean, when you look back at Teller and his, you know, his battles with his shadow trick um and going through court with that, uh, and trying to get just some kind of copyright and protection for that, I think you're absolutely right. But I think the same in all arts, like dance routines, you can't copyright a dance routine, and you think that that is a piece of art, that is something that someone has created and you know spent years and years and years to get to that stage and put together. So I think there's lots of arts that aren't protected. Um, so 100%, if I go to a Jean-Luc show and I enjoy something in that show, it doesn't mean I can go away and then perform it straight away, you know, with your permission, absolutely, but without that permission, I shouldn't just have the right to go and do it straight away.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:23

Yeah, and and that's a big problem that I have, is because the magic that I do is very easy to do. The card on the tablecloth, nothing easier to do. Um, you've seen the routine of the hypnotist and the cigarettes. Yep. So you I'm sure you appreciate the reason why I shared it to you is because it very much defines the type of work that I do. I hypnotize somebody, make a false pretense, put a cigarette in their hands, you know, and then you have the kicker, you know. Um uh you know what I mean, right? And I've had three magicians, very famous guy, contacting me saying, I love that trick, can I do it? And I say, That's super nice of you. Okay, I had to put it in like to to to to put it in Instagram and stuff like that because I could hear a lot of people were like doing it because it's such an easy trick. But it took me years to make it that easy to I mean, when you look at, and I'm sure that we when you look at it, you might like ah, it's so like, yeah, of course. You know, it's easy to to why didn't I think of that? You know what I mean? And because it's easy to do, it doesn't mean that you're like the intro that I had uh with Magic Box was a big red jelly balloon, you know, uh bursting. Maybe I send you that, uh bursting into the stage, like bam, bam, bouncing, balloon explodes. I appear at the balloon, super strong effect. I showed that to a guy I knew, used to be a friend, and he's and then a few months after send me an email. I would love to do that for my new show. And he said, Well, thank you, but it's it's mine, it's gonna be the intro of my new show. It was before, and okay, and then a few years after I'm performing, and some guy comes to me and says, Oh, by the way, uh, that balloon trick, I just saw it in Vegas, you know, in blah blah blah. Did you buy the rights or are you paying him you know a fee every day you perform it? And I'm so shocked because it's yeah, it's it's it, yeah. So so this is me being concerned about my own work, but but but I I think the problem we have with it's like a stand-up comedian. Whoever texts somebody else's joke, you know, you know, they can be in court for that. And and I don't think we have enough ethics but also I believe, and this is gonna be really hard to hear, but I don't think that uh to be a magician doesn't require a lot of talent. It's easy. You just buy whatever trick you want at Alakazam, you know, and you can impress people the next hour. You know, whoever, you know. I did a trick, I did a TV show called Magic Kids. Uh, and it was a TV show where uh so you always say magician doing magic for kids, but you never see kids doing magic to grownups and they're gonna kick their ass. So that was the premise of the show. And there were five kids that were not magicians at all, they were just actors, you know, uh actor magician, actor, uh uh uh child, child actor. And and we would teach them a few things, and and you know, they had an earpiece, and we gave them, you know, and and we did two seasons of egg episodes, and the show uh like really killed in France, like it really worked very well, and they're no magician, you know. So, yeah, that's yeah, because we don't need so much talent, like like like we were talking about Jan Frisch. The guy is the master in card magic, like he's one of the best, you know, like whatever he does is gold. And we did a gig together, uh, and he starts to do a little bit of it. He doesn't do mentalism, okay? But he did something with like a kind of a book test. The guy killed the the guest, the gig, the audience, with cards that he was doing at a table. He killed it, like so strong. And the client goes, ah, that was great. But by the way, the trick with the book that was amazing. And you're going, God my god, there's years and years and years of preparation, and just one simple you know, book text that doesn't require any any job as a strong end. So that's that's also something that's yeah, I wish there was a little bit bit more work into you know, into the craft of everybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:51

Well, on your island, copyright exists, all right? So coming to your island uh and stealing anything, it's all yours. Now you do have two more things you have a book and an item.

Books That Shape A Performer

SPEAKER_03 1:23:02

So what would you take in your book position, John Luke?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:06

25 years ago, 30 years ago, I was kind of obsessed with hypnosis, believing it didn't exist, it didn't happen. I I was told that it's something that that was fake, but something was I was attracted to, you know, like a fear, you know, you're afraid of something, but you so I bought a book and I read the book, I learned the sentence by heart, I applied it the next like whenever I had the occasion of doing it, and just exactly saying uh the the the formula to that person in front of me, and I made that person fall asleep. Um and so I think that was one of the very strongest magical effects that I felt because it felt like a real witch craft book, like you know, like you know just like in the movies, you know, you have a book like Evil Dead, you know, whatever, and then you know, you know, demons appear. I read a book, I learned the lines, I did the line, and the guy went like this. That scared me a lot. It was the closest thing to magic that I could really experience, and so um so that book was it's I I put it here because it's there in my shelf. Because I have many other books, but I must admit that this so it's if not this clinical, social, and theatrical uses, which makes no sense that you have clinical, social, and theatrical use. It makes no sense to mix the three things uh by E. R. Hutchinson. So that's a book I want to mention, but that might not be the book I want to bring. Uh, because the book I would like to bring would be The Alchemist from Paolo Quelo, and it's not a magic book, but I read this book when I was 20 or something like that. I wasn't reading that much at the time. I I started reading when I was 13 or you know, uh uh 12, Stephen King, and and and it's so powerful, like Dead Zone. I remember I think that was the first book I ever read. Maybe I was 12, and it's so strong, so powerful. Uh and I wish I had read more when I was a kid, uh, but in 20 something or 25, I got to read um The Alchemist by Paolo Coelho, and there's so much magic in that story. Uh, you know, Mectube, which is all is written, Destiny, and stuff like that. And I think that is that type of situation influenced my magic way stronger than any magic book. Because magic book, okay, you you've got many clever guys that have been, you know, very talented magician that came before me that gave you all the books in the history, and I agree with him. So I thought I would go with something that is not magical, but is at the same time it's more magical than anything else. That's great.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:25

We we've had a few people say like story books and stuff like that, because sometimes, you know, it's the inspiration through stories that give us the idea for the tricks, and there's a school of thought. It's either what what comes first, the presentation or the method? Do you have the trick that comes first and then you add presentation to that, or do you start with a presentation and add effect to that? Um, and certainly from the things that you've described, like Derek Del Godio's In and of Itself, I can imagine that the narrative there, the story, the the beats, the moments were the important thing there. And then they added the tricks in from that point. And it sounds like a lot of the work that you're doing now is about the story and the feeling and the concept that you're putting into it, and then the the magic is secondary to to that the moment, the thing that you're making them feel. Um, so I can imagine this book uh from what you were just saying has inspired you and has made you feel that little bit of magic. Um, and maybe that's what you've carried on through your career.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:34

Certainly, not conscious, not uh in a conscious sense. Ah, sorry, I can't say it, but okay, not conscious uh way. Uh but but yeah, but it's like huge, I mean, I mean, what you do like the the trick with uh uh scream, I mean, like are you are the woman with the eyes closed? I mean, this is storytelling, and we would have good dinner together, Jamie. We should, we should what We should we should have dinner one day. We should have.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:04

As long as there are no frogs and no snails, I'm right. That leads us to your item, then, John Luke. What is in

The BIC Lighter As A Universal Prop

SPEAKER_03 1:28:12

your item position?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:14

I would uh uh I would use a a big lighter. I would use it like a regular big lighter, not not not not even my thing. Yeah, no, no, not not my thing, uh, but a regular big lighter because okay, the reason why I used this uh to create uh that effect I did um is actually uh uh because I had read at the time that uh the big lighter is was the third most recognizable object in the world. The first one being uh the bottle of coke, the second one being a big uh uh pen, and the third one is a big lighter. So imagine that the big you know, big was actually it's actually it's a name, big uh uh uh bick, and it's um it's uh like a lord in France, you know. I mean, but not anymore. I mean the guy died 100 years ago. Um but two of the item equated are the most common and known object in the world, which is crazy when you think about it. Uh and also because when you have a big lighter, and and this is something I will do all the time, you know, when you have somebody smoking, so providing that there is a beak, and if somebody else in the room has another big lighter, the logo beak will be on both lighters, and just by having that, so if I'm in the island, I I carry my own big lighter, and if somebody has another beak, I can do the trick with him. And the fact that you're doing the trick with the big lighter, uh, and you erase before you're giving back, you I erase one, I erase one side of it and give it back, it is the you alternate an object that they had in their pocket, so their object comes out of their pocket normal, and it comes back altered, and they can bring to their friend and say, Oh my god, look, you know, you know, and it's so strong for the people, and also at the same time, because of the big lighter. Well, you could, I mean, I'm not gonna do the the regular dessert island, but uh you can you can set a fire, you know, that's good for dinner, you know, but also it's the perfect uh use to steal a watch, uh, because once they have the lighter in their hand, that's the best way to get a watch. I mean, yeah, that object, and and and shout out to Greg Wilson because I I was uh I was I don't know maybe 25, or I don't know exactly how old I was, but I showed him the routine that I was doing, but I was doing it with simple big sliders at the time. And and he went, oh, this is amazing, you know. And and he was so so much power coming out of him, and he was such a great guy, and and he gave me confidence to make it, and it became my first uh the first tree that I created. So I I really want to to shout out to Greg because it's something he's somebody that's uh that has you know gave you the right energy at a time when I actually needed it, and he never thought that you know I would be able to release anything. And and I must say that it opened me a door to create something next to him. So yeah, so that let's make it short, but that big lighter uh with a regular beak, not even my thing, uh, you know, it can be 10 minutes of magic, and that's super strong.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:40

Well, I think it's really interesting that you thought about the universal recognition of an item. I think that's great because then that means that at one point in history, maybe not so much nowadays, but at one point you could take that big lighter out anywhere in the world, and someone would instantly know what it is. You don't have to justify it, you don't have to say anything about it, it's just a normal thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

Yeah, and when I created the trick, I remember that uh it was very, I mean, we're talking 25 years ago when nobody would create. I mean, it was very hard to create a trick at the time. It's like it's not like you add a new trick every two days, you know. Uh it was something to was supposed to be big, you know. Uh so it no connection, no internet, you know. I mean, there was internet, but I so I literally drove down to Spain to the big factory to get uh so so remember the ending of the trick, right? You know, there's the the two sides, uh you know what I mean, okay? So literally, so either the option was to buy two lighters, cut one half, you know, or get the the spare parts uh uh uh separately. So I drove down to Spain to Tarragona to meet the the owner because if you tell tell him on the phone, I want to have spare parts, they don't understand, they don't get it. They they they why why would you want a spare part? We can't we don't sell spare parts, you know. So it was too long. So it's 15 minutes, uh 15 hours drive, uh going there, you know, showing magic to the the owner and the whole staff, because they were not they you know they they couldn't believe a magician would drive that way to do that, and uh so that was 20 uh uh 2002. They gave me so much spare parts that I still have them today. The the big ladder that I'm still making uh come from that. So, anyway, and and and the fact that it's a big ladder, as you say, people know what it is, so they don't justify it, they they don't need they look at it, they know, period.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:51

Well,

Where To Follow Jean-Luc

SPEAKER_03 1:33:52

I think that's a great thing to take with you. Um, and it's a great way to round out a really interesting, different kind of list. There's some really brilliant tricks in here, you know. Uh, you're one of the only people that's taken a person on your island as well. Uh, you're the only person I think who's ever regurgitated a frog on the list, which I think is really good. And of course, we have one thing to look forward to, which is the JLB coin as well. So I think that's a great list. Now, Jean-Luc, if people want to find out more about you, about your incredible shows, and of course, about JLB coin, where are they gonna go to?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:28

Uh just go to my Instagram. Uh it's Jean-Luc Bertrand magic story, something like that. Um, you know, I'm I'm not big into communication, so it's not, it's you know, it's not yeah, that's basically and and and the the product will come out once Murphy's is releasing it. I I they really believe, I mean we had a big period of doubt. It took 12 years to to get there. Um and when we start shooting it and we saw the reaction we had, we were like, okay. I mean, especially in Blackpool, because we didn't know. And we the first way we really showed the very uh uh what will be the ending product was in Blackpool. And the first guy we showed that to was David Blaine. And uh and shout out to my son because uh I told my son, I'm gonna film David's reaction, you do that to him. I was just too scared to show anything to David. My kid is 18, is actually did that to like without budging or anything, and and Blaine was like, Oh wow, and and and then and then we if all the guys that were in the like you know, Tobias, uh Max Pellman, all the big name in Magic looked at it, you know, and went like okay, and uh and so we felt okay, it's gonna be good. So that trick, everybody will hear about it soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:58

Amazing, and do check out Jean-Luc's um Instagram because he's got some brilliant clips of him doing hypnosis on there. There's clips of him on stage uh that look phenomenal on there. Um, and I'm guessing that's gonna be where you first see the phenomenal trailer uh that I'm sure is gonna come out. So please do go on there, do go follow him because you know uh he's got 16.4,000 followers.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:24

So uh, you know, which I don't believe they're really real 16,000 because there's always only a hundred people that like my thing. So I I doubt it's real 16 something.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:35

Well, there you go. Everyone has to go on there and like everything that you see. Uh, but it's brilliant. Thank you so much for your time and for your expertise, Jean-Luc. Jamie, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:47

Thank thank you. Uh now I'm gonna have to run because because hearing your voice all the time makes me remember that I'm usually running when I hear you, so I I feel like I need to put my running shoes and go for it right now. It's it's frustrating. And uh and and and let's have dinner whenever I'm in London.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:05

Yes, please do. And people wouldn't have realized this, but uh Jean-Luc's done this whole episode on a treadmill. He's literally been jogging this whole time on a treadmill. Um, no, he hasn't really. Uh but yeah, absolutely. That would be great to um to have you uh yeah over here.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:20

Or you come to France and you come to see Jan Frisch.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:23

Oh my goodness, yes, that would be great. I have yet to step foot in France. You have never been in France? I have never been to France.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:30

Can you imagine what it would be for you to discover Jan Frisch for the first time in your life and the FL Tower for the first time in your life? Man, you will not come back the same man on the way back. There you go. Thank you so much, Jamie. You were it was great. Thank you so much, buddy.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:46

Thank you, and of course, thank all of you guys for listening. Uh, like I said, please do check out the JLB coin. Um, I I'm not understating it when I said it looks absolutely phenomenal. The fact that Jean-Luc has managed to hone this trick for over 10 years and get it to where it is now, the fact that it fits how it fits, again, not giving anything away, is phenomenal. Also, go check out Jean-Luc's back catalogue because I think that with so much new magic coming on the market, we forget some of the the hits. And uh certainly we we've referenced it a couple of times on here, but no smoking really is a phenomenal trick. It has some wonderful moments in it, especially the finale, which I remember first time seeing it uh and loving the the ending. So do go check it out. It is uh a wonderful routine. And when you're in France, make sure you message Sean Luc.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:42

You you come and and ring me up. I'm in Paris and let's have coffee and and um and and just one thing, you know, we always hear those magicians saying, you know, uh um uh uh uh you know if I was, you know, if it was if if magician were real, you know, this is what I will do, but you know, and let's be honest, it's never really true, you know, that's always something to but it's true that that GLB coin, when you try it, you feel like like I think that if magicians had powers for real, they would do that. You know what I mean. Like we always hear that sentence, you know, and you go, ah yeah, okay, I understand. But this time I yeah, but you cut this part out. What you said was better than what I said.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:29

So no, no, I I think you're absolutely right. Yeah, it makes you feel hu uh superhuman, it feels like you're a superhero. That's what it what it it must feel like. Uh, and to do it anywhere, anytime, any place, that's what really makes it stand out.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:45

I think for me in your hand and in the hand of the audience, standing up in the middle of the crowd, like you don't need a table.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:53

Yeah, and that's what people need to really remember when they see it. Uh, it's an anytime, anyplace. You're not having uh I recently saw someone in London with a show do uh the old version of this routine, and I thought, you know, it looked great, but you're only gonna be able to do it on that stage. Um, whereas this version is anyplace, anytime.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:16

I believe that the guy you're talking about is actually the only one who carries that effect for his new TV show. Yeah, because he went, he saw it and he went crazy about it, and he's the only one we gave it to. And and yeah, and and and actually he was the only one of all the amazing magicians that could actually do it, and it looks so good in his hand. And then a few days after he invited me to see his show in London, and I was like, Okay, I understand you've been doing it every night.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:50

Yeah, yeah, it was great. Okay, so let's round it out here. Thank you all for listening, and we'll be back next week with another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Goodbye.

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