SOS: Oliver Meech

Magic gets stale when we keep reaching for the same props, the same references and the same “safe” structures. So we invited Oliver Meach back for a Desert Island Tricks SOS and he did something no one else has done yet: he replaced every trick on his original list with a completely new set, chosen to showcase how he thinks about modern card magic, close-up mentalism, and audience-first interaction.

We talk through effects built on bold starting conditions like performing with your back turned, using touch as the driving sense and hiding procedure inside familiar game logic. Oliver shares how he aims for fresh plots, streamlined methods and interesting interactions and why those three filters keep his material both creative and practical. Along the way we hear about Effervescent, the Effervescent membership, Effervescent 2, and what he brings to Alakazam Unlimited, plus the small “psychological convincers” that make an effect feel impossible even when the method is already done.

Then we go bigger with a banishment that hits a nerve: the lack of variety and diversity in magic, from overused ESP tropes to the industry habits that flatten originality. We wrap with the island extras: a care package trick, a magical guest, a career-defining memory, a horror story that still hurts, and the one show Oliver would watch forever. Subscribe for more conversations like this, share it with a magician friend who needs new fuel, and leave a review with the most “different” magic idea you want to see next.

Oliver Meech SOS: 

1. Switching Gemini Twins for Back View 
2. Switching Killer Elite Pro for Untrue Crime
3. Switching Holy Moly for Touching Transposition
4. Switching Hydrostatic Glass for Morphin Time
5. Switching Word-o for The Secret Steps 
6. Switching B’Wave for Go With The Flow
7. Switching Snaps for Card Number Recap
8. Switching Coin Jar for The Other Three Magi

Care Package. Piles of Aces

Banishment. Lack of Variety and Diversity in Magic

Guest. Liam Montier 

Memory. Vanishing Wife During Wedding 

Horror story. Glass Jar Shattering 

Show. Derren Browns First Live Show

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

Transcript

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Banishment: More Variety In Magic

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We're gonna banish lack of variety and diversity in magic because I love variety and you know compared to comedy and art on theatre, obviously there's still a reasonable amount of variety and it's getting better in magic, but there's just not always that much in terms of ESP cards. Like, again, I love them, but there's so many tricks with ESP cards. And then I know recently you've got like Adam Dadswell has done the everyday ESP, but you know, you've just got five cards, they could be anything in the world, and with in a lot of the time we're still using ESP and we're still talking about Ghostbusters, which came out in the 80s. Like, there's there's nothing wrong with that per se, but it's just there's so many more. I was thinking if you have a pie chart and a lot of magic stuff is sort of 80% one thing, and then a couple of other little bits and bobs, and there's so many possibilities within these methods, so I think they'd be good. Also, obviously, diversity in terms of thinking, in terms of backgrounds, you know, like things have moved on a bit with women in magic. I love Mystify Festival that's coming out, but you know, everyone could do more on that front. So I just think if we had more diversity and more variety, then it would be more interesting.

SOS Format And New Options

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Hello, and welcome to an episode of Desert Island Tricks SOS. This is our second version of this podcast, I guess. Well, actually, we've got three because we got stranded with a stranger as well. Uh, but this is where we invite some of our guests in. Uh obviously, this podcast has been going for nearly three years now, which is crazy where that time has gone. And we've improved, we've changed the podcast, and we want to invite some of our guests back to see whether this really was their definitive list. Of course, it's called Desert Island List because they're stuck on this island. So even if they do change their mind, I don't know where they're getting these tricks from. Someone is dropping little parachutes with tricks onto these islands. Uh, but we want to invite them back and to find out if they are still doing those tricks, what else they've learned, and of course, we're going to give them some other options. So, with SOS, they have a banishment because a lot of our guests never had a chance of having a banishment, so we're going to give that to them. They get a guest, a magical guest, which they can share their time on the island, because of course, you know, they've been on their island for a long time. We need to give them a little bit of companionship. Um, they're allowed a memory, so this is an amazing memory from their career that they get to replay over and over again. You know, when those long, stormy days are coming in and they're just feeling a bit miserable on that island, we can play this memory and cheer them up. They have a horror story, but don't worry, because we're gonna put the horror story in one of those little glass bottles, put a cork on it, and throw it out to sea. So we're gonna get rid of that horror story, but they're gonna let us know what that is beforehand, and a show. So something that they either never got the chance to see or loved so much that they wish they could see, which I think's good. And of course they get to change all of their choices. Now, today's guest threw a caveat to me, which rarely happens on this podcast. Uh, and he basically said, Well, do I get a care package item? Which we've never done on SOS. I don't know why I thought about that, because the care package has been around since SOS. So for the first time with an SOS, he's gonna get a care package as well. Of course, we have to give him a care package. So I'm really looking forward to the fact that he caught me out with that one. Um, and uh hopefully we'll introduce those. We've actually got today's guest coming to the studio in a few weeks' time, which I'm incredibly excited about. I actually saw him lecture, I think it was last year, at the Young Magician's Club. And his style, the way he thinks, just everything about his kind of magic, I loved. I loved quirky, I love quirky magic, I love quirky ideas, I love people who use different parts and aspects of their life and put it into their magic to create things that other people aren't. So I know that he's gonna be incredible, but I'm gonna let him talk about that uh because this introduction's going on way too long. So today's guest, of course, is the wonderful Oliver Meach. Hello, Oliver.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Hi, uh, what a nice introduction. Yes, lovely to be back.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Well, you've been on your island for a long time. You were one of our first guests. Uh, I'm not actually sure what number guests you were. Let me have a look. You were guest number, you were on episode 45 of season one. So you were coming towards the end of season one. Um, so yeah, you've been on your island for a little while now.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yeah, you know, it's starting to become a little bit strange, but you know, that's that's all guess. You know, I've settled into it. So I'm still I'm still alive, so that's always uh you know, it's a good start after a couple of years.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Well, since then you have well, lots of things have happened to with you.

Oliver Meach’s Effervescent World

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Uh you've started um Evervescent, which is uh a series, a series of books, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Yeah, I yeah, it's it's I I have a habit sometimes of reinventing the wheel because I like not reinventing the wheel, sorry, starting from scratch every time uh because I like creating, but every now and then I'm like, come on, like Oliver, let's let's think ahead more than like a month. And uh and so I was like, right, what can I call something that feels like because I love series of buttons, you know, like John Kerry's done, you know, load or you know, um card college or semi-automatic card tricks, or you know, I like I was like, well, what can I what can I have that shares the fact that my brain is always bubbling away, but it's not so specific, it's not restricting, you know, it's it's not it's not called the magic with Kitchen Towel series, you know, and you're like, oh, I just want to do something else. So yeah, that's that's where my sort of the effervescent is a catch-all. So yeah, series of books, and then obviously it's sort of developed into a uh membership as well. But it's just sharing, yeah, my my my bubbly brain is always coming up with stuff, so I went in somewhere to share it um with the world. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Well, we get to see some of that. Uh at the time of recording, it's in a few weeks' time. So after the recording, if you're listening to this in the future, of course, this will be recorded and and you can go back and watch it, so you're not missing out when we talk about this. But you're coming to uh Alakazam Unlimited and you're gonna do a Alakazam studio live with us, um, which I'm incredibly excited. I'm gonna be honest, I have raved about you to uh everyone at the Alakazam HQ, and they are just as excited as I am because uh your style of magic is very unique, I would say. You know, you have kind of a scientific analytical brain and you put that into your magic, and I think you see things differently to other creators, which I really love.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

I think so, well I hope so. That's really nice to say. Thank you. I think I feel like I'm I'm sort of I've sort of been in magic for ages, but because I'm not always like bigger, like hyping myself, I'm not always like, well no, but um hopefully that's changing. Yeah, I think from the yeah, psychology background, I like I've always liked that mix. I have a my logo at the moment is sort of a Venn diagram because I always like the combining of worlds and subjects. And so, yeah, that sort of art and the science coming together, I love the sort of analytical side. I think that's why I love magic because you have the you know the problem-solving method, how do you tinker, how do you get things where they need to be. And then you have that, you know, creative side of going, oh, what's a different spin I can take on things? And I think also from uh, well, I'm sort of freelance now and doing more magic, but from the background of working in kind of creative advertising agencies, it's all about what's the big idea, what's the new idea, you know, what's been done, how can you be different? So I think that comes in magic. I'm always going, like you say, how do I either bring stuff in my own life or how do I go, well, everyone does it like that, fine. How what's what's another flavor, what's another take? And hopefully that will come across in some of the tricks I'm sharing is that I'm always going, what's the twist, what's the wrinkle, you know, what's the what's the what's the new way you can stick on that? Um, because you know, I I I have a I have a big urge for novelty. I like new and different and fresh things. So um hopefully that kind of comes across in in what I create.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Well, I love your object in jar. If people don't know what that is, it is literally any object you want inside one of those jars, which I think they're universal. Uh uh Schnapple bottles, I think, used to have them as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Yeah, originally, but any jar that has a sort of safety button that pops up when you open it.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah. Yeah, so you can seal anything inside one of those, and it will legitimately be sealed in there. As in if they were ever to open it up, it would pop open and you know, they could tell that it's never been tampered with. And you could put anything in there. But is there anything that you can tell us, without giving too much away, about the studio live just to get people excited who are gonna be attending?

Fresh Plots And Streamlined Methods

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Yeah, so I think, yeah, I'm really looking forward to it too, because it's bizarre. I've known about Alakazam for ages and somehow never, you know, made it to the made it to the shop. So I'm coming down from Bleeds, loving that. So it's gonna be a mix of. I was trying to summarize. I remember hearing um uh years back when um the brilliant Barry and Stuart were together, they had sort of this list that they sort of thought about of like what would make a Barry and Stuart style trick. And I thought that was really interesting, not in a restrictive way, but but just to sort of clarify in your own head what style of magic you do. So I kind of boiled mine down to three things, and that not all my magic does all these things, but I really like fresh plots because a lot of magic is based on new methods, but actually, you know, we've got this big toolbox, we can use it to create new plots. Uh, streamline methods, because I really like that sort of banner style, boiling everything down. Um, and then interesting interactions, because I love playing with spectators and audience members, participants, you know, in different new ways, getting them involved. I love that side of things beyond just, you know, saying stop or or just watching, you know. So those are the sort of three things in terms of my approach. And then in terms of the tricks, yeah, there'll be a bunch of stuff. So uh a lot of stuff from my book, Effervescent and Effescent 2, which is coming out. There'll be some from so mostly from Ephescent one. Um, there'll also be some stuff from uh a couple of things from the plot books from years back, which are still I think quite interesting. So yeah, there's a range. There's uh without pitching the whole thing, but yeah, there's there's one coming up later on called The Other Three Magi, which is really fun, really interactive. There's the coin in, well, any object in in jar, I do a kind of coin in pasta sauce, but I'll talk about that and also the the sort of hands-off vanish, that's nice because it's sealed, but also the vanish happens in their hand, so they're holding it, you know, then the coin vanishes, then it's in the jar, then you can give it away, so that's a nice kind of impossible object. Um, and then also share a kind of creativity technique that is really fun to come up with a bunch of new ideas. Um and then we will see what else pops out. But yeah, just a whole range. I love giving, you know, brain food, uh like the name of the David Power book, just a whole bunch of different ideas and also showing that you can you don't have to choose between being creative and being practical. Like that's a big thing that I really care about. Like, I you know, don't get me wrong, I love a I love a random obscure pipe dream or a what a like a ridiculous method sometimes that you know, like I don't know, Paul Harris's stick a leaf back on a tree, you know. But that's surprisingly practical. But equally, I I generally like that's why I've leaned into a lot of creative card magic, because you can do quite off-beat plots, like you know, trick trick boom, do this brilliantly. You can do quite off-beat beat plots, but then you can also still make the methods quite reliable and practical, like the coin jar thing. Like I did that, you know, I did that in the fringe, I did that, you know, once you it's a if you keep the bottle, it's a one-time setup. So it's not, I think it's separating that in your mind. You don't have to just be from a shuffle deck in use or weird pipe drinking. There's there's there's a whole there's a whole world in between that that I think we can play with.

Studio Live And Alakazam Unlimited

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Amazing. Well, if you want to attend that, uh, if and if you don't know about it, so Alakazam Unlimited is Alakazam's streaming platform. We have uh, I think over 400 tricks on there now. We've got uh over a third of the website now is all uh exclusive content. So, you know, we have um courses on there now, we have our studio lives, we've had some incredible people on our studio lives, which is why we're pleased to keep that going with Oliver coming in. Um, and you know, it costs $5.99 a month. That's it. We're not gonna charge you any more to attend. Just come along, you can watch live, and then it'll be available after. So if you're listening to this in the future, all of those are up there, so you can go and check

Effervescent 2 And The Membership

SPEAKER_01 12:39

them out. But Oliver, you mentioned very quickly that you do have another book coming out, which I did not know. Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yes, so excitingly, yeah, I don't like to like pre-hype things too far in advance because you know there's there's enough hype in magic, isn't there? Let's face it. So um I yeah, so the book is literally I'm I'm waiting for my sample copy to come through, and then assuming that's all good, it is good to launch. So it is uncreatively titled Effervescent 2 because I wanted a series of books on the shelf. Uh, and it's funny for one type actually thought in advance, and the bubbles on effervescent one near the bottom are sort of in a line, and that's because they could look like a one, but I didn't want to commit to more books, but now they do. Now I have a two made of bubbles, so now it actually fits in in the one, two, three, you know. So that's fun. So yeah, so it's more basically effervescent one, really enjoyed that or effervescent, and then it went down well, and people were interested. So then I thought, well, it'd be nice to do my own membership, slightly, slightly a fewer videos than mine, but it might have a PDF since I'm a world member. So I started effervescent membership, and that's sort of two tricks every month, um, done as a PDF, and then um written up with photos and that kind of thing. Uh, just as a nice way to sort of share things more regularly rather than books you sort of, you know, work away in work away in a cave for you know a year or two, and then you come out and go, duh. But I thought it'd be nice to have something that's a bit more of a regular check-in with people and sharing my discs. So it's kind of collection of that stuff, um, and then also some of the other bits from um other books and projects. Then it's got, like the first one, it's got a mix, it's got 10 ideas, which are sort of um like interesting jumping off points for tricks. So maybe they're a bit less, not necessarily that they're less developed, but like there's a trick, for instance, with a kind of macumical prediction, um, but with a picture of a horse turning into a unicorn. So it turns it into a sort of kid's trick. So it's things where you can describe it in a brief way, or you go, oh, it's this kind of thing. I mean, Rory Adams had that great book only, ideas a while back. So they're a bit longer than that, but they're yeah, there's an idea section of various bits and bobs. There's, I can't remember, 29 tricks, something like that. So slightly bigger than the first one. And then um, there's four essays at the end. And the the vague thing, there's it's not a hard theme, but I noticed when I was doing there's a lot about kind of variations on how to take existing tricks and then twist them and change them and put your own spin on them and stuff like that. So they're all they're they're quite varied, but they're if there wasn't, there's sort of a nominal theme there, but it's it's generally just it's it's a bunch of interesting, hopefully creative yet practical um stuff with mostly cards, with a few exceptions of uh and mostly close-up with uh but a lot of it can be kind of scaled to parlor. I naturally sort of my style naturally sort of reverts to that sort of parlor, slightly bigger, slightly talking to more people wave. So most of them you can do in that sort of setting as well. So yeah, looking forward to it, uh sharing it with the world.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Well, consider yourself hyped, guys. That uh sounds phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

That was that was my non-hype hype, but I'm just looking forward to it. I'm trying to get better at being like high, you know, in my traditional. I'm like, oh, here's this thing if you maybe one, but don't worry about it, never mind, I'll go away now. So I'm like, come on, come on, Oliver. Like, you know, with Craig Petty in my hair, and it's like, come on, you've got to back yourself a bit. So I'm trying to get a bit better at uh talking about what I do.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Well, there you go. I think you did that very well. Uh so do go check that out. By the time this podcast is out, I don't think the book will be out just yet, but that's fine because Oliver's already got Evervescent One, which you can go and check out whilst you're waiting for the new one to come out. And if you listen to this in the future, go check both of them out. There may even be four or five copies at the time that you listen to this. Who knows? We are time travelers. But let's get

New List Begins With Backview

SPEAKER_01 16:22

into your list. So, with all of these creative ideas, I'm guessing that you're constantly coming up with changing things and adding things in and taking things away. So, let's see how much of your list you want to change out. Of course, you do get to change any of the tricks. We're gonna go through your previous list. We're not gonna go over what those tricks are. If you want to know that, then go and listen to Oliver's original podcast. But we're gonna see if he would change any and why he would change them. So, the first trick that you can switch out, should you want, is Gemini twins.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

I have gone rogue and just gone, right. Well, since my brain is always coming up with new stuff, I've gone, let's do an entirely new list. So um, it's also because I'm always, like you say, I'm always working on things. I'm always I heard um uh Peter's episode of this the other day, and and he was saying how you know he's always excited about the next thing he's developing and that kind of thing. So um I'm a bit like that. So I wanted to share a bunch of new stuff. Um and also because I just yeah, I just thought it'd be quite interesting to sort of share. Oh, also my previous list was a bit um more sort of autobiographical. It was like interesting, you know, charting my journey and interesting tricks I come along the way. So I thought this version would be a bit more sort of the kind of material that I create and the inspirations behind it. So without further ado, uh, I would like to swap Gemini Twins to a trick called Backview. There's this funny link to Gemini Twins, and that is using a part of that method, which I absolutely love, but in a different way without going into detail. But the idea of Backview is it's a um it's it's a seeing without seeing type trick, you know, a sort of seeing, seeing with the fingertips. I know Luc Germain has some great work on that, other people have great work on that. Uh, and I wondered, I was developing a version of it, and I thought, what would be an interesting method? And then and then I realized that you could use Gemini twins method in a bizarre way. And so what you it allows you to do is you can do basically the whole routine with your back turned. And I think it's interesting in that, you know, there's lots of different ways of coming up with tricks by being recently. Sometimes coming up with tricks, we don't always start with the position you're standing in on stage. But I just thought that's quite an interesting way of going, going about coming up with tricks. So I know Joshua J has a trick where he lies on the floor, and I don't know what the trick is, but I've seen a photo and it's really intriguing because you just I don't know. Or, you know, if you think of um design duplications in mentalism, um, or you know, Sean Fauquire's great book test, like like standing back to back is an interesting, you know, like position as well. So I think it just finding different ways to stand. And I quite like the cheekiness of the theatrically you should never turn your back on an audience. So I quite like a trick where you actively say, I'm gonna do this entire trick with my back to you. Um so you're sort of holding the cards behind your back, they shuffle the cards, it's quite clean. So they shuffle the cards, uh, you take them back, you have an envelope, you remove a uh like a bookmark, um, you deal through the cards. Whenever they say stop, you put the bookmark in at that particular point to sort of start the test from that point. Uh and then you're feeling the faces of the cards, they can check that there's nothing, you know, light and tactile that can be felt on them, and then you slowly reveal uh more and more about each face of the card. So you're not doing the whole deck, you're just doing about six. And I think sometimes, often with these things, sometimes we have instant um magicians have instant abilities. Suddenly, you know, you try a thing and then instantly you can do it perfectly. You can reel off 52 cards. So this one, I quite like the idea of gradual because uh gradual improvement or gradually gaining abilities or clarity as the trick goes along. Um, I think in terms of Marvel movies in a weird way, they often don't instantly have their powers sometimes in a Spider-Man or whatever. They slowly, or Doctor Strange, they're sort of getting used to it, and the powers develop and get sharper as time goes on. So you start just by feeling the colour, then you feeling the uh you do a couple of those, then the values, and then you eventually arrive at one card. And then I love giving variations, so even within the trick after each one, I'll give sort of thoughts and variations of different ways to push things. Um, so in one version, you end by trying to find the mate of a card. So if it's the four of spades, you go, okay, well, let me try and find the four of clubs, and then you pick up the pace and you're on a sort of manically feeling cards and scattering them everywhere, and then eventually you find one card which is the mate. Or another way to end it if you want, is you can say, Oh, well, the next level of this is to feel cards through barriers, and you have them put a card in the beginning into an envelope, and then you feel the outside of the envelope, and you feel that card sort of through the envelope, as it were. So it's kind of two different ways to play it depending on how you want to end it. Um, but it's just a really fun, it's a really fun, different feel of a trick. It's not a pick a card trick, and it's it's yeah, it's a sort of slow, slow build and then a sudden manic phase at the end. But it's just really fun, and I just like the fact that it's based on, you know, literally the first trick I ever learn in self-working thingy, but you wouldn't really recognise it in the context of that. I think if I hadn't said, most people wouldn't go, Oh, it's that method, because it just seems really hands-off. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, I love effects where you have that kind of quirky hook that you know, there are different ways. You can have uh like a linguistic hook or like a story or something like that, but sometimes just an action. Like, you know, when I think about silent treatment, the idea that you you're not saying anything, you have this board. It's it's the visual clue there and the visual aid. Or, you know, recently we had one card in my pocket where you say, you know, I'm gonna put a hand in my pocket so that you know I can't cheat. It's those little hooks. So the idea of you being at a gig and just turning your back on someone and just putting the cards behind your back and doing it that way. I think it's a really interesting. Quirky approach.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yeah, and I think no, totally. I think those are great examples. And or even I saw um uh Lord Harry Leeds Magic Jam when he was doing his trick with the you know the sort of bag and the pen overhead and stuff, and like um I don't know, Alan Hudson has of that as well. I think anything that would make you not in a not in a cheesy way, but anything would just make you look and look again in a social situation is just really interesting. Yeah, and it takes it away from being having the script having to do all the heavy lifting or having to go, oh, how can I take this thing and then just sort of add arbitrary bits to it to make it more interesting? And it's like, well, no, if you start with that, exactly, then then it's in or standing on a chair, like people used to say, you know, just for pragmatic reasons for you know, if there isn't a stage, but also it's inherently just going, Well, what's going on there? It's inherently intriguing. I think I like that when you have something big and intriguing, then the rest of it kind of can flow from there as well. The fact that your back's turned means that you hold your body differently, or whatever it happens to be. You get, I remember someone said about advertising campaigns that if you have a really good creative idea, um, like should have gone to Spec Savers or whatever, once you have the big idea, the little ideas will follow out. And I think the nice thing about this, if you let it, well, the idea is my back is turned, or the idea is you're blindfolded, or whatever it is. And then from there you go, oh, well, that means that I probably stand like this. And that means that you know you'll have to talk louder because you can't see them, or that means that, you know, whatever it is, suddenly it it helps all the little bits of presentation sort of like um expand out from there, which I think is really nice.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Well, that's going with you then. So we've taken Gemini Twins away from you and we've given you back view. Let's go to

Untrue Crime And Triple Revelations

SPEAKER_01 23:38

number two then. So in your original list, you had one of my favorite tricks, Killer Elite Pro. Are we keeping it or are we ousting it?

SPEAKER_02 23:45

So I'm trying to win why I've replaced these. We are I mean we are ousting all of them, but I'm trying to replace them with some that each one has a sort of similar flavor in some way. So we are keeping the theme of crime and uh, you know, dramatic situations, but we are changing it slightly. So this is uh another trick of mine called I call it Untrue Crime, and um it's based on, and again sort of linking to variations. So um I love tricks where and methods where you get more out of the same thing, if you know what I mean. So um, for instance, I love John Gastaferro, if I'm pronouncing that right, his truth in advertising, where you've just got one extra card, but it's doing like three different things in it, and it's suddenly, you know, so or Bannon's great at doing that as well, you know, he'll take one move and then see how you can get multiple um, you know, climaxes out of it. So, on that theme, so this is based on a trick I love that a lot of people may know, which is the Jim Steinmeer's nine card problem. Um, it's a modern classic, you kind of, you know, deal cards according to what they say and drop cards on top. Normally it's done with playing cards, there's been a bunch of different versions. Um, and I also love playing games when I'm not doing magic, um, but I I'm probably slightly annoying to play with because when it's not my turn, like a lot of magicians, I'm fiddling with the cards and they're getting my you know, my kids are going, why are you doing why are you trying like doing sleight of hand with your cards? Just play me go. And I'm like, oh yeah, sorry, okay. Um, so this was inspired by that. I was playing a a certain murder mystery-based game, shall we say, since this is 100% unofficial. But yeah, I was playing that kind of game, and I suddenly went, Oh, wouldn't it be interesting if you could sort of solve a crime and do questions here? So, based on that, you have three three sets of three cards. So you have uh, and I'll teach you something hard because I'm thing, but you have um three cards which are the suspect, you have three cards that are the weapons, and you have three cards that are the places. Um, and then they pick one of each and they're you know mixed in, and then you deal through or they can deal through, and you ask the questions as if you're saying, I believe it was so-and-so with the weapon in the location, but they can lie or tell the truth. So um, and then they go through those and they answer whatever. So, you know, I believe it was, you know, whoever with the gun in the, you know, in the um study, and then you you go, oh well, I need to find out, you know, find out find out who did the crime, and then you spell crime, and then lo and behold, rather than one card, which is what it normally is, all three of them come out. The three they chose came out. And it was really pleasy when I was working on it because you'll you'll know this from creating Jamie, but um, you know, sometimes the nice thing about creating is you you you come up with a thing, and then you have that moment when you go, oh, maybe I could do that. And then there's that midpoint between you go, oh, maybe I could do that, and then you try it out, especially built cards, and you go, Yeah, but will it work? And then you have to sometimes you have to work it through and go, oh, it does work. Well, sometimes it doesn't work, and you just go, Oh, and there's a horrible displacement you need to do, whatever. But this time I was like, maybe you can do, maybe you can just do the same moves, and if you pick the right words, whatever, maybe you can control three cards rather than one. And I was like, and I tried and took a bit of fiddle, and I was like, hang on a minute, if you spell, you know, in the and you spell with the whatever, and then I doubt them out and I was like, it works, you can get all three. So it was very pleasing to you know get triple, triple the triple the cards for the same amount of work.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Well, we love that style of trick at Alkazam. Uh we've always been uh fans of that kind of plot, but it's just because it's such a commercial idea, you know, it's something that's universally recognised, you know, the idea of rooms, places, and uh suspects so it's such a lovely, you know, hook straight away. And we mentioned before about not having to talk about it and you know turning your back to do to do that routine, but it's the same here. The props do half the work. As soon as you show someone a certain kind of prop, they instantly understand what's about to happen without you having to really map everything else.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Yes, exactly. I think that's really good. And why I like I've got a few different tricks using games with that and other ones with you know, Monopoly and and um what else with uh like word games as well. And I think there is that thing, like it's really good. I know I think the jerks has talked about this as well, but like procedure, we all know like self-working or easy tricks are great, but the downside is sometimes you've got the procedure. And like you say, it's brilliant with games because you've inherently got inbuilt procedure. So the idea that you would, whatever it is, roll some dice or deal some cards or have a go or you know, think of three things, like it's all embedded in the game. So it doesn't feel like this arbitrary thing that you've stuck on where you're like, oh, we'll count down to 15 cards and then multiply your original number. It doesn't feel like that. It just feels like, oh yeah, well, obviously, playing this game, we need to, you know, pick three of those, and then the person's gonna try and you know guess, guess who did the crime. Yeah. No, I love some of your Alexandre, like, because I know you've got a lot with by yeah, but more recently, Nicholas Navaris. I'm gonna mispronounce the name there, sorry. But he does he does brilliant stuff in that. And I know you've got some other stuff where I feel like lots of ingenious self-working. But yeah, I love it. It's so engaging, and also it's yeah, murder mystery, engaging, and lie detector, they're just so reliably like I'm all for different sometimes, but there's some plots or some presentational angles like Invisible Deck or whatever, they're just so reliably engaging. It's fascinating. And I'm not quite sure why, but they just you you like you say, you just tell, you try them out, and instantly people are like, Yep, yep, I'm I'm in, I'm in. So yeah, I love that. Any anything like that, I love. So it's just nice. And the nice thing about this one as well, I've just got like, is you you they're not, I mean, they they they could be, you could print them bigger. You can do them on stage, which is nice because you use counting as well if you had if you made bigger ones. And also they don't need to be gimmicks, they're just they're just what they are. So it's nice when you go around a friend's house. I know you've talked about mental toolkit on a lot of these other episodes, and it's a nice one for that because as long as you remember, you know, where they start, it's they're just they're just cards out of the game. So you can just grab some if you're at a friend's house and go, oh, okay, and then just go into that, which I think is always nice as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Well, I'm very excited to see that. I can't I genuinely. Yeah, I'll do that as part of that. I'll do that as part of the thing as well. Yeah, I can't wait. Uh and what I really like is you know, even though you're getting rid of Killer Elite Pro, people are still being murdered on your island because you're taking untrue crime with you.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Well, exactly. You know, you've got to gotta give the people what they want. And turns out from true crime podcasts, people just love a bit of murder.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

So there we go, yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Uh risk. Oliver and Jamie do not endorse murder outside of plots. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

On that note, uh, we have uh we have holy moly that was in your next um position. But you did say that you're switching them all out. So we know you're switching it out, but what are you gonna switch it out for?

Touching Transposition Using Feel

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Yes, okay, cool. So I thought I would go for since holy moly is a sort of it's not a coin, it's a washer, but it's sort of a coin trick. I thought I would go for another sort of coin trick. So this is one of my um slightly, excuse me, slightly um older tricks from um Plot Thickens originally. And this is um this is a bit of a weird one, but it's fun. It's an after dinner. I'll say what the effect is and then go and go into what I like about the method. So the trick is you have it's a very clean transposition, uh, but it's based on touch rather than sight. So you have a kind of after-dinner trick. So you have a uh um sugar cube uh and you have a coin, and then you have uh you put them both in one hand and you remove one and you have them sort of reach in and feel and see what they can feel is inside uh one of your hands, and they have a feel and they feel a sugar cube, and then you can have people immediately hold your wrists and then very slowly, you know, counter three or whatever, and very slowly without doing any moves, you open your hands and lo and behold, the sugar cube is now on the other hand, and the coin is uh in in that hand. So there's a transposition, but it's really you can do it really slowly and cleanly. So I like that because it's a bit different. And I think I think in my was it in effervescent the first one? I think it is. I had an essay about sort of different creativity techniques and sort of two of them, one I call leap far first, and one of them I call knockout 90%. And this sort of is a bit of both. So if you think, you know, leap far first is like we were talking about with the previous trick of standing back, is just going, how can you start somewhere that's quite different from the norm? And then when you do that, you've got more space to play. So for instance, if it was, you know, this isn't original to me, but if it was it's a card trick, but using slices of cheese, that's a big first leap. And then anything you do there is going to feel more different rather than going, right, I'm gonna do an ace assembly, and then you already, you know, that's that's not leaping far first. You're trying to make it different, but you're in quite a crowded space of existing ideas. And then the other thing is knock out 90%, which is where you to make yourself be different, you just go, what what can what limitation can I do that knocks out 90% of what's out there? And so that was from this. I was like, well, lots of people do tricks with sight, but there aren't that many, you know, there's a little bit with sound, tiny bit with smell and taste and touch. There's not that actually that much with touch, you know, there's PK touches, whatever, are a few. So I was like, well, what if there's a different um sense you can use? So yeah, that developed from there. And then the method is just very silly. I won't tell you what it is, but it's very pleasingly silly, and it's sort of a variation. It's a variation on a classic coin gaff, but applied to touch rather than sight, is what I'll say. And it's one of those methods that's so silly you just go, really? Really like, is that gonna fly? And it totally does, and it's fascinating. So I really like it. And it's the kind of thing which is funny you can just keep in your, you know, like the little pocket in your jeans. It's the kind of thing like you can keep it in the pocket of your jeans, just the coin, you know, you can use any sugar cube, and then it's you just sort of have it. I know bumped into someone who had it in their wallet, and it's just a nice sort of casual, oh, I haven't really got, oh, actually I've got a coin, let's let's try this, you know, it's that kind of trick. Um, so yeah, it's a fun, it's a fun, off-beat method, but it's and surprisingly reliable, and it feels a bit different.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Well, when you mentioned like your rules, I guess, of how how you can change things up, you know, there have been versions of that in the past. I know, I think it was Jay Senke actually had one with a coin and a key where you would put the key, uh the coin in your hand, then it would turn into a coin. And I think Jeff Price had a version uh very similar, but it was with a key ring and a key. But what's interesting about those is the key and the object that's transposing have properties which are very similar, which allow the trick to happen, so to speak. And what I really like about yours is they're inherently completely different. So not only does uh a coin is solid and a sugar cube is actually quite fragile, so you know it could fall apart at any any time, completely different shapes, completely different sizes, completely different uses, and I think that's what's really interesting with that. Uh, and even visually, a sugar cube mix uh transposing with a coin is visually quite striking as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yeah, I think that's yeah, because we use you're right, we're used to doing sort of one coin swaps with another, or like you say, or something else. And I think that was part of the fun of it was going, what could, you know, what could swap? Um, I can't remember, but it might have been partly inspired by, I know there's an old thing in the Darwin Autis where he was talking about different types of transposition. He had properties, so I think it was a you know a coin and then and something rubber, and then the coin became soft and rubbery. So I think that's probably where it started out. But yeah, I just think it's really interesting going, how different can it be? And I quite like on that theme recently, oh, I can't remember the name, maybe you can't it's something like chromatica, but it's not like that. There was a sponge ball thing that came out relatively recently where you had, you know, the red sponge ball and then it became the the yellow square and the whatever it was, blue triangle, which way around it was. Yeah, and I just think there's that interesting, like conceptually, like you say, the more different it is, the more it feels. And it is harder, like thankful, you know, it is harder to do different different methods for this. Um, yeah, I think that's interesting. One thing I should also note is is um I did it in a lecture and and Chris Chris Wardle, who who I was gutted, you know, gutted to hear passed away. I didn't know him that well, but amazing creative magician. So I just want to give a shout out at him, but he suggested he did a thing of swapping other things. So he was saying he has he did a sort of glasses case in a coin. So you could sort of feel the no, sorry, glasses cloth, so you could feel the softness of the cloth, and then it would still change as well. So I think it's a kind of thing, once you've got the premise of whatever the objects are, then you can go with that. And also how how little you need sometimes of an object without saying the method is, in order for people to infer what it is. I think that's something interesting to play with as well. I know Andy Gladwin has a has a nice different routine with Heist, where he sort of shows a little bit of uh, without going to detail, he sort of shows the watch in the thing after it's gone. And that sort of get like there's something about we get a little hint of something and people imagine the hole there, even if they're not necessarily seeing all of it. So I think there's there's things to be played with there. But yeah, it's just like I think that you're great you it's a good point. More the more different we can change is is is better rather than just coin for coin or card for card. Sometimes you can push it a bit further.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah, I think it we we sometimes talk about the mixture of different genres and how you know we can use other things in the world to uh uh with magic. And I watch a lot of editing um programmes and stuff like that because obviously I have to do um some editing. Uh, and one of the things they often talk about when it comes to film and TV is they don't always give the audience all of the information because they know the audience's brains will uh create the rest of the picture or the rest of the idea. So a lot of the time in TV and film they don't have to actually show everything because implication is everything. As long as they imply it, then the brain basically fills in those gaps and you're basically doing the work for them. They don't they don't have to rely on everything. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Yeah, I often think that with food, like you'll very rarely you'll see, you know, you'll see a couple of those, you know, Chinese takeaway paper ones they have in America, and they'll go, oh, so blah, blah, blah. And they've just saved, you know, hours and hours of food prep, like just by doing that, or some hint of, you know, they'll spray a bit of water on the shoulders and they'll be like, oh, it's coming down, you know, and then they've saved a whole shoot with the like the rain coming down. It's yeah, fascinating. Uh, what did you call that trick?

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Oh, sorry. So that trick is called um touching transposition. Amazing. So holy moly is gone. Sorry, Jay Sankey. And we've got touching transposition, which is in. Let's go to number four then. So in your original list, you had hydrostatic glass. What are we changing this

Morphin Time Balloon Transformation

SPEAKER_01 38:28

for?

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Oh, okay. So, since that's a cool visual, um, I I like talking and I like interacting, but every now and then you do need a bit of white candy sometimes. So uh this is a more visual thing. So it's uh in I think effervescent one. Yeah. Um and this was inspired by something outside of magic. This is another one of those sort of rules or or principles that I help help creativity. Uh, not necessarily original with me, but just looking outside of magic. Like I love magic, we all love magic, but sometimes, you know, if you only ever look within those walls, you you you miss out on other inspirations. So this was inspired by uh an old video by um Zach King, who uh obviously does a bit of magic, as we know as well. But he was doing the early videos when he was doing sort of editing, just you were talking about editing, uh using editing tricks to sort of make things look like magic. So he had one where he was uh pouring a uh uh like like Snapple type drink, whatever. He was pouring some kind of reddish, I think it was, drink onto the table, and then when it hit sugary drink, it was sort of turning into jelly beans where it hit. Um, and I just thought that was interesting, also a bit like transpositions or um, this is transformation, but just thinking about changing form. So rather than one object turning to another, like sort of having an object being the same but changing its form. And then I thought, well, how can you do that in magic? And then I played with different things, and then I realized using another brilliant classic trick, which is um uh splash bottle by David Stone. Brilliant. I know it was around everyone was doing it for a while, and then you know, it's one of these things that goes in fads, but um brilliant practical method. And then I realized, well, what if you, rather than there where you where you've got a balloon and you pop it and there's a bottle of wine, uh, what if you pop a balloon and then there's a um balloon dog, so but of the same balloon. So then you've got this sort of retention of vision thing going on, basically. And also I needed something in a pragmatic way back when I was doing the Edinburgh Fringemore. Uh, when I was playing noisy venues, uh, it's very helpful to have something that is a little bit of a laobang to uh you know get people to pay attention at the start before I start talking about, you know, time travel or whatever I'm talking about in a longer trick. So yeah, so you come out, you hold a balloon, you say you're gonna make a um uh like a normal, sorry, globes style balloon, birthday party balloon. And then you say you're gonna turn it into a dog in three seconds, you go one, two, three, and then you I twist it around, and there's just the face of a dog um drawn like roughly on the balloon. So that gets a little chuckle. Uh their sort of expectations dip, and then you pop the balloon, and then low, oh, and in its place is a um uh uh balloon dog of the same shape, and then you can hand it out and go on with your trick. So I just thought it was quite interesting having a uh different take on things. And the nice side is um balloons are very light. This is the upside compared to carrying things, it's wonderful. You have to carry uh like I love splash bottle, obviously. Massive um props to to David Stone. But I mean, the the since I already have shed loads of props, this was a nice happy accident afterwards, as I realized I'd just have to carry a few balloons and uh and you can do it, you know, buy a buyer buy a bunch of round balloons, buy a bunch of modeling balloons, and you can uh you know go forth and do that a bunch of times. So it's just a fun, quick, simple attention-getting trick that leads you into before I go into longer premise heavy stuff. That's the other thing, is sometimes in magic we like I like good creative restrictions where you go, okay, I need a trick that lasts five minutes that uses a mug or whatever for creativity. But equally, sometimes I think we limit ourselves by going, oh, this isn't our kind of magic. And I always think, like, if you think of, you know, even Darren Brown, he's Mr. Psychological Illusionist, but he still does a card trick every now and then because it just he just fits it within the wider story. Or I love one of my favorite, favorite classic things when I saw when I first got into magic was Ricky J's, and I'm showing my age here, but hopefully people remember this. Um like Ricky J's routine with the wind-up toys, and he only was bizarre just because like it's such a such a like left-field edition. So he's you know, he's like learned, you know, historic, you know, suave, like chatting, talking about, you know, the history of magic and all this stuff. And then he's got this routine where it was like, oh, the random, you know, bunny rabbit will find your cut, the turtle with the baby's head will find your cut, you know, and there's just this weird come from nowhere thing that just makes everybody like, well, where did that come from? It's great. So I think that's fun to do sometimes as well. But pragmatically, I played with everything. It's weird. So I think I've always played with different stuff, especially when I was doing stage routines, objects, and I quite like, and then only more recently, I'd say the last sort of three years or so, I've just got really back into card tricks because I think the the the pragmatic side of being able to carry them around and the fact that you can do so many different plots with the same object, and also I'm doing a bit more close-up um stuff now, so it suits fits with that. But yeah, I've always played with any stuff, so I've I just I've just had them because I used to like anyone, I used to do blue modding. And I just went, well, what can change? I think that was the thing. I was going, what does obviously cards can, you know, you can you can flick and make cards change into other things, but I think it was just going, what's big and visible that can easily change? And I think the other thing to think of, I probably mentioned it in the last one, is really helpful creatively to try and separate methods and uh effects um or plots because we we we're used sometimes in not always, like if you take something like a a um I think I'll write about this in the new book, but if you take something like a double a lift, we're used to it being within card magic. It's using everything. But then you get other things like um the super rise move, and it's sort of only ever used in um or 90% of the time used in an ambitious card phase. And that's the only time it's used. But that doesn't mean you can't use it in a whole bunch of different things. Like I know similarly, I saw Pete Turner once do a thing about it was a I can't remember how much we're allowed to say on here, but anyway, it was a sort of thing you do before the Show and it used a uh DL as it was like as the which is like a card move used in a mentalism odd. So I think that's also good to play with as well. So I just went rather than going, I need a trick, I use cards, da la la, I was just like, what what could change? And then just go, that's all my criteria. I was like, well, what object can change that I can do without you know devoting 10 years of my life to manipulation? And uh which I I love people who do it, I'm just I'm just realistic with myself. So yeah, and then they and then balloon, I've just happened to pump balloons. So that was that was sort of that's a very long answer to why balloons, but that was that was why I ended up with balloons. And what was that effect called? Oh sorry, and that effect is called uh morph in time without the G, like like Power Rangers, but again, not not in any uh particular copyright away just because I thought it'd be fun. I try and do uh as per the is it, I think again it's the jokes, like try and make the names. I know it's less of an issue with books, but try and make the names ungooglable. So I try and, I know I'm just sticking out a podcast that says what says what they are, but you know what I mean. Like I'm not calling it balloon dog, which was maybe the first thing called balloon to balloon dog. So yeah, I try and I try I like a playful name as well, but ones that sort of nod to it, but they're not literally saying what the trick is all the time.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Okay, well, morphin time is going with you. Let's go to number five. So in your original, you had wordo. What are you switching it to?

The Secret Steps With Controlled Chaos

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Okay, so since WordO was a sort of classic old school method that I took and thought, what else could I do with it? I've taken another kind of classic method. Um, and I think when you've been in magic for a while, like I'm just very aware, I'm in my 40s now and I've now been doing it for, well, I mean, Jamie, you've been doing it for a while too, I assume. So we've both been doing it for, you know, a couple of decades now, whatever it is, 20, 20 something years. So it's nice sometimes to revisit like early books that you haven't maybe read for a while, but you to come to it fresh with the knowledge you've gained along the way. So I was doing that recently with Sky on Scarny on card tricks because I hadn't read it in 20 years or something. And I thought, oh, that might be interesting. So um I uh yeah, I started going through, and like you know, like any beginner's book, there's some things that uh the that you've seen or maybe are okay, but not that fooling. And then there are other bits, and then every now and then you come across a thing. So I came across a trick called swimmers, and the idea was that you have, I think, four packets of cards, and then they follow sort of steps along the way, uh, a little bit like poker's players' picnic, but hands-off, but anyway, they follow a bunch of steps and then they turn over the cards, and I think they're kings, and then maybe they turn over them again in their races if they follow. But basically, it was sort of they cut the cards and they move them around, and then they end up with these cards. And I liked it, but I thought it was it felt like it was a bit obvious where they were coming from because everything felt like it was coming from the same place, if you know what I mean, which it was, and it felt a little bit prescriptive. So I thought, well, maybe you can have it come from a couple of places, and then you know, it hides where they're coming from more. And then also I thought I like the interactive bit. I so I'm always going, how can I how can I give people more involvement or more choice? I thought, well, maybe you can do a thing where they have a bit more choice. So, in terms of what they actually see, I should go to first, they um they yes, you have a deck of cards, you cut it in half, they cut that into uh both halves again, so you've got four piles, and then you talk about the secret steps, and it's this, you know, thing that you've heard about the the gamblers used to carry that you just sort of follow these moves and you'd end up with a winning hand. So you pull out a kind of you know, scrumpled scrap of paper or however you want to sort of theme your props and you say, Oh, you know, here we go, follow along. And then um it's got, you know, it's like whatever it is, and they can choose also, sorry, they can choose whether they number them one, two, three, four from left to right or right to left. And then they go, you know, move pile one to pile three and pile two to pile four. But then there's bits where you go swap these piles or these piles, and then they do a couple more. There's not loads of moves, there's like six moves in total. Then they do maybe one or two more, and then in the end it says swap any any two piles you want. And then they do all that, and then you turn them over, and lo and behold, they've got the four aces. And then you say, Oh, well, actually, if you want to beat that, then maybe you want to get a royal flush or whatever. So you turn over the seventh step, uh, assuming that it's gonna be more of the same, and it just says tap the ace of spades on the four piles and turn them over again, and then they've got the other four cards for a royal flash. And if you want, you can do a kicker with a blank faces or jokers if you want. But it's quite an efficient, I know that sounds quite uh like this bits to do, but it's quite I like the trick because it's quite efficient in the in not that many moves. So I think in four moves or something, you're setting up two four of a kind reveals or a four-of-a kind and a five-of-a kind. Um, and I like that you can play, yeah, they can just do any. I like it when you start with a bit of restriction and then you open it up so it starts, they're just following, and then they go, Oh, we can pick this one on this one, and then at the end of it, you're just going any of them, and you're like, oh okay, and that it feels quite free. So yeah, it's just a it's a fun, different flavoured way to get people involved in sort of produce four of a kind but with more audience interaction. Uh, and this one is called Um The Secret Steps, which for once I like the others, it's probably a bit close to what they might think it's called, but yeah, no, say no buck, whatever, no one's perfect.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Well, I I also think the idea of chaos in method is interesting, so you know, it's kind of like the the Spanish school of thinking, you know, that it's it's that chaos, it's the you know, the randomness. Uh and I I recently went to um Now You See Me Live in the West End, and they did Woody Aragon's Love Ritual. Oh, Love Ritual. And again, you know, it it's the the method there is just the chaos of what's going on, and of course there's time misdirection there as well. But you know, I love the idea of just all right, now cut it there. Now there's and then there's just this mess. And you know, when an audience member backtracks, all they're gonna think of is well, it was just cut, there was no way anything could have been tracked or followed along with because everything was everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Yeah, exactly. I think that's really interesting, and also giving them that sense of yeah, that's a really great analogy, giving that sense of the bits that you follow and the bits where you suddenly go, oh, now just do what you want. It feels like it opens up. I know the jerks talked about that in terms of forcing as well, more where you have uh, yeah, exactly, where it starts really restrictive, and then you suddenly open it out, and you're like, oh, just just any. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're suddenly like, oh, okay. And they, like you say, they they remember that bit, hopefully, and you can dramatize it. Yeah, I think it I think that's really fun as a method, like interaction and chaos. And I also like the sort of glimpse of another world. I like building fictions. I don't think everything has to be strictly in the real world. So I like the idea that there might be this thing that a gambler wants, right? Or you know, these hints of the wider world, or you know, you'll you do that brilliantly in the more sort of bizarre, darker stuff. You'll, you know, there's a letter for whatever, or it feels like in the world of magic, there might be these secret techniques that gamblers use. You know, I like the sort of hint of the wider world, whether or not it feels like a documentary or more like a Hollywood movie in terms of level of realism. Like I think that's that's quite more interesting. And also I like stuff where you're like Love Rich, where it's in their hands and you're a bit further off, you're not going, oh my god, look, I'm awesome again. You know, because it's like it's like, no, there's this weird weird thing we can follow. Um, so yeah, I like that. And also, just as a side note, it's quite fun in that you can you can stick them in four glasses and swap them all around. It's quite, it's quite, which is nice if you want to do in a parlory way. I like I call it sort of scalable tricks. I like tricks that are without a lot of extra thing, you can make them play bigger if you have to. But yeah, I like chaos. A bit of chaos is good.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Well, Word O is gone, the secret steps is in. Let's go to number six. You did have a classic B wave.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

I know, so I I feel like so so again, you know, the wonderful Max Maven slash Phil Goldslide, like brilliant, brilliant stuff. So I haven't fully again. This is interesting seeing I think I think quite analogously with magic. And I think what's interesting is that sometimes people look at me weirdly when I suggest an analogy, and I think it's just because you can think about it at a double that different levels of analogy. So I think where you have um you like on a on a sort of in the literal way, if you think of the sort of uh algorithms that recommend TV shows or products, and they go, you know, you just watched a film about dolphins, so here are another six films about dolphins, you know, like that's that's a very literal analogy, but then you get other levels where you go, which you want a bit more, you know, you just watch an action comedy, so here's some more action comedy, you know, whatever. You just watched a director, you know, here's some other things they've done. So I think that that magic, you can go analogy, oh, here's a here's an ace assembly that's you know, you here's another ace assembly. But then you can also go, well, what's what's interesting? I don't know, Chris Kennet talks about this a bit in terms of structures, like what's interesting structures, what are interesting sort of phases, what flow, how they're building, you know, what what's an interesting shape with the callback? Like there's loads of things you can draw out from each trick. So this is inspired

Go With The Flow Chart Trick

SPEAKER_02 52:50

by that. So this is sort of I ended up following a the similar three-phase reveal as B-Wave uh in this routine, this one, even though it's very different. So this is called Go with the Flow. And um it's inspired by I don't really use a lot of tech in my methods, but I quite like occasionally playing with or suggesting uh sort of joking, jokingly nudging towards our relationship with tech in presentations. Um so I know this again, Trick Trick Boom does that brilliantly with the mini, you know, the mini computer and stuff like that. So they they all they do brilliant stuff in that space too. And also, uh, so in this case, this is uh I talk about how I'm trying to, you know, everything, everyone's trying to automate things in the world. So I'm gonna try and automate a card trick. So I've created a flow chart that will find your card. Um so you bring out a piece of paper, again, again, like it's a hug, you know, then you then you're already into the world of it. So you you have them, two people pick a card, you know, you riffle down, they say stop, you show two people a card, um, and then you show a uh flow chart. And this kind of like the ones you used to get in magazines sometimes, where it's the you know, like what character are you? And you answer a question, you go, is this yes or no? And you follow the arrow. So it's that sort of thing, but for for card magic. So it says, you know, is your card red? And if it's yes, you deal ten cards, say, and if it's black, you deal eight cards, and then you go down and you go, is it a spade? And if it's yes, you deal four cards, and if it's thingy, you deal, you know, six cards. So you go down like that. I mean, it doesn't go all the way. There's three questions depending on the sort of the the flow chart goes, and then it you know might be like, is it a high card? And then you say yes or no and you deal a certain number. So you say, okay, so we've narrowed it down that we know yours is uh it's a high heart card. So it could be the you know, eight, nine, ten, jack queen, king of hearts, maybe. But uh, what do I know? Maybe maybe it's well, we follow this dealing. Hopefully, what did you pick? Ten of hearts, whatever. And they turn it over and that's their card. And then you do the same thing with the second person, but they've chosen quite a different card. So the whatever, three of spades or whatever. Then you deal so black card, oh, okay, in that case we deal this number, and then I this deal this number, or they can do all the dealing, and then this number, and then lone hard, you find their card. And then because it felt like it needed a little kicker at the end, you go. Now, obviously, that that takes a little while. There is a quicker way of doing this, and you turn over the sheet, and on the back are the two names of the cards that they chose, and then you go, Oh, and I'm really pleased you chose those cards because if you chose anything else, it wouldn't have worked. And then you spread, and a bit like um Montier's big kick and other tricks, then you spread the deck and the rest of it is all black. So it's like a bomb, bomb, bomb, one, two, three. But it's just a bit like it's weird. I like tricks that have um, you know, like like cartoon logic or not wart logic, like it doesn't really make sense, but it kind of does, and you're following along and you go, oh yeah. So you know, you follow this chart and you can see them go, okay, but how how does that work? You know, but obviously it only narrows it down, but it then it does sort of work, and it's just I just like stuff that sits in that slightly weird place. So yeah, that's fun. And it's one of those methods also without going to it's you know, the method is very simple, you're done within 20 seconds of doing the trick, the method's done, and the rest of it's just following along the presentation.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Well, I think what's really interesting with that one is obviously we were talking about uh in the previous one about like chaos, and and what's interesting here is you have controlled chaos, which is weird because you know that there is only a certain number of routes that they can go down, but it's the freedom within that route that they're going down which makes it feel chaotic, and it's like, well, I could have done anything in in that thing, and and it just happened to still work. Um, so I think that's a really interesting, like juxtaposed idea, but it just works together.

SPEAKER_02 56:21

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point, and I think it's um it's interesting when you develop. I I like you know there's different stages when you're developing a trick, and I think it's interesting where there's the sort of oh, does it work at all? Proof of concept stage, and then you know, once you get past that, then there's a polishing, but then there's all these sort of this or that questions that you think when you present it. And I wonder on that front as well, because like what is the story and what is the effect? And sometimes it can be multiple things. So if the story is whatever you do, this thing will know, then you could shuffle the cards at the beginning and it will still work because this somehow already knows. Or is the story that actually you've got this pack of cards in this particular order and this, you know, this ordered cards and these ordered flow chart mean that somehow it will always work, in which case you definitely shouldn't shuffle the cards, and that's more fully ordered. Obviously, you're not going right down, you know. If you went right down to 52 different options, there wouldn't be a trick. So I think you that's that's the other bit. You need to leave enough mystery there that you go, you still go, yeah, but how did I get that one? But I think it's really interesting how, even with the same trick, you can choose how you play it and the degree of sort of order or chaos that's involved.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Okay, well, go with the flow is going with you. Uh let's go to number seven then. So in your original list, you had again a brilliant, brilliant effect. Snaps.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

Oh, so good. So yeah, so none of these, these are just replaced because I thought it'd be interesting to share new things. Like none of these are because the originals are brilliant, because they

Card Number Recap And Big Kickers

SPEAKER_02 57:50

are all brilliant. Um, so yeah, so I'm replacing it with a trick called card number recap. Um, and this is kind of again, because snaps is is is a great trick that has a, you know, has normally has a really good kicker where you suddenly realize, you know, the photos the pictures are actually letters as well. So this is a trick that also has a kind of kicker. So this is a weird one, but I think it's really fun. And it's a card, it's sort of a card at any number. It's not it's not a purist's trick. Um, it's uh it's a specific card at a specific number. Um, but then the kicker is mixed with a kind of master prediction. So again, like you were saying, mixing different contexts. So the master prediction, love it. If you can bleep it out, I'm not allowed to mention the name of it. But like it's the yeah, it's this is great at the end of a show, you know, they bring out um, you know, you bring out a scroll off on a paper, and then you put them a roll it, unroll it, and you show that you've predicted, you know, some or all of every choice they made along the way. And again, it's a great ending, but I'm I'm not gonna carry a master prediction. But I just again it's an interesting plot. So I thought, well, what maybe, and it's a very nice bookend. It makes the whole, it's one of those tricks, you know, like in a Darren Brown show. It makes everything else come before feel like it was all linked together, whether or not the degree to which it all was, it makes it feel cohesive and there's this thread. So I also love the idea of bookends, like um uh in Stage by Stage, great book, John Graham talks about them, and Michael Close has the big surprise, which is that where you set something up at the beginning and then you've got something at the end, or that you know you get that sense of a callback. So it's that. So the yeah, so then in specifically of the trick, you have a deck of cards, you have a pad, and you have some marker pens. So you you have them, they they can pick the card in different ways. It depends, that's not the main point. But say they they for for say they they cut their pack and you give them a choice very clearly for and do they want to change their mind, and you say, wherever, you know, you cut the pack when they're happy with that. You also bring out a glass that's uh a deck in a glass that's covered with a hanky, and uh you say to them, you know, do you want to change their mind? If they don't want to change their mind, they stick with those cards, and then you take the first card as the card and the next two cards to make the number that it will be at. So say it's whatever, three of hearts and it's 19, and you go, okay, so you've just, you know, you didn't want to change your mind, and then you say, So we've committed, everyone can see this. Here's a pad, and you can also choose your pen. Do you want the marker or do you want the giant marker? Because you've got both types. They pick, say they pick the giant marker, they write their card and their number so it's big and nice and clear for people in a parlor setting. Then you remove the handkerchief and you show a deck of cards face towards the audience um in a glass, and you very slowly and cleanly um take them out of the glass and count down to the 19th card, which is indeed their card, the three of hearts. But then you say, Oh, that, and then you you um, you know, place that to the side. And you go, oh, but I I had a feeling that might happen, not just that, but just sort of how this how this whole trick would play out. And then you turn over the cards and it's a blank backed deck, and each card has a word in, and it tells a 51-word story about how the trick will go. So it says, I can't remember the exact wording, but it says, you know, I predict that this audience will be great, and a person will come up and they will choose not to change their mind. Um, and we'll take the write the card. I'm no, sorry, and we'll write a pick a card and a number and write it down using the giant marker. Um, we will then deal to the 19th card and find the three of hearts, uh, the only card with a red back, and then you turn it over, and that one's got a red back with the rest of blank, and then you, you know, and the crowd goes wild or whatever, or the crowd goes crazy, and then you know, and then that's the end. You deal through the cards, and then then that's your ending.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Wow, yeah. That has several layers of you the the audience are just not aware of what's going on or where it's going, which I really like. That that is uh I would call it a six sense card trick, you know. In six sense, you get that twist ending, um, but all the way through you're you're you're changing the parameters of what's happening in terms of the structure, and it's keeping the audience on their feet, they're not sure where it's going at any point, and of course, that ending um is gonna knock them physics, and I think it's really interesting as well. I I don't really know what this is called, but I guess it's almost like a non-logical convincer. But the idea of putting a deck of cards in a glass it makes it feel even more impossible, even though you know, if I had them in a deck of uh in a if I had the cards at the beginning in a card box, that's just as impossible. But by having them on view in a glass, it feels like you can't change them or move them, it just makes it feel even more impossible.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

Yeah, I love your top, yeah, non-logical convincing, but I think they're real psychological convinces, and I think that's fascinating generally. I have to say, I think the first time I saw a deck in a glass was um Ian Rowland. He's got a very nice card at number, different method, but he'd like using that. And I yeah, he's just a pleasing visual. But I think that's that's that's fascinating me, and that's partly why I love psychology as well. The same with blank deck kicker, like that bizarre thing that you can do, you know, Gemini twins or whatever, you can do exactly the same trip, no more sleight of hand, no more whatever, and you reveal a blank deck at the end, and you know, it's always whoa, like they it's always more powerful. It's really I think same with I think we could explore that even more in magic, definitely. Same with, you know, holding the wrists when you're doing a thing. And obviously most of the time you've done what you need to do before they hold their wrists, but like all those, yeah, exactly, all those conditions, or you know, in the old school books, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna read your mind, but I'm gonna be in the other room. Like, you know, regardless of the method, same method is all the yeah, we're so I think we're so ingrained sometimes magic of of being obsessed with method that sorry, as in physical or gimmick method, that actually like you go, the psychological you go, well, what makes people go, oh yeah, but but like you say, it was in a glass, it was wrapped in rubber bands, they were holding my wrists, it was the cards were all blank. Like it's such a fascinating world, you know, or the power of changing the signature on a bill or something like that. It's no harder to change a signature than it is to change a bill for a different bill in some ways, but yet psychologically it's such a it's it's all the meaning that comes with that. So I think, yeah, it's a fascinating well, and I'm sure I'm sure we can do more like that. I'm sure there's more things to find that are just psychological-based convincers. But yeah, they definitely help. Oh, I'm sorry, I should just say one nice thing in the method is that although, although you do influence the card on the number, they can they do have a free choice as to whether they change their mind and which marker they pick. And you can, within the method, without going into it, you could make the mess like message shorter. And I think what would be really nice is you can then, you know, if you're doing three tricks, if you're doing a book test and you're doing whatever, you can then, from a mix of free choices and not so free choices, you can predict everything in the act, which I think would make it feel even more, you know, like uh cohesive as a routine.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

Well, I know that you can buy those giant wine glasses, so I want to see a giant version of this. I want you to get like a jumbo deck and a jumbo wine glass. And I'm size version of the bigger.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

Well, if if you can find, I mean, I did it's funny, because without doing the method, methodologically you could. I love the idea of the giant wine glass. The only thing is I I can't find a good, you'd have to write them on a red back because I'm yet to find blank back. Someone, if only Alec has, you know, Alec's Emmy too. Now they've got print by magic and you've you know gutted the house in a late in order to fit that in. Now we need we don't need some uh some jumbo card deck. Yeah, I need a jumbo blank back deck.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

We'd need a whole new building for that size.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

Exactly, just that, and everything else played outside there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

All right, let's go to number eight then. So your last one was the coin jar. What are you switching it for?

The Other Three Magi On Stage

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

Okay, so uh not a coin thing, but the what I liked about coin jar is just how interactive it is. Um, I love tricks where um, you know, you put the put the spectator or participant in the spotlight, um, like Mark Elton. The spotlight literally called that. But like um, so this is this is one of these. Uh, this is really fun. I think I did it the circle thing. This is the kind of thing that is really fun to share with your family over Christmas, which is how I did it, but it's just you can scale it up to stage as well. Uh, and it's called the other three magi, uh, because I came up with it at Christmas time. Uh and the idea is uh you bring three people on stage and you say to them, uh, we're gonna turn you into kind of I love the uh sorry, start again. We're gonna I'm gonna turn you into kind of magical superheroes so that you can uh experience what it's like to to make magic happen because it's such a wonderful feel. Um so you have them cut the deck into um three piles, uh they can shuffle each one, and then you go down the line um and you um have each person they pick a card, uh free charge, they you insert it into the deck, you show it's not on the into the packet, sorry, you show it's not on the top or the bottom, and then you hand the pile to them to hold. So you go down the line like that, so they've each got three of them. Um and then you've also got some, sorry, I should say you've also got some uh name tags, uh like address labels, you know, under under your card box on your table. So you say normally I would, you know, find the car, but instead you're gonna do it and uh using your superhero, uh magical superhero names. So you take out the name tags and you you say, inspired by Houdini, these names each you each have a different magical power. So the first one is um I have to remember now. Uh yes, the first one is Movini. So they have a sticker within Movini and you teach them a magical gesture for each one. So their magical gesture is uh if you're if you're just listening to this, uh think um think like a bit like street live with one hand, you've got one hand out like you're sort of stopping traffic and you're moving it forward. So they go ch ch and sort of move their hand forward like they're trying to push something away. And then you say that they can move cards magically. The next person is called flippiny because they can magically flip cards over. So you have them hold their hand out, uh palm up, and then imagining they're like like 11 in Stranger Things, imagine they're sort of flipping a car with telekinesis and have them go like that and flip the hand over. And then the third person you say they are they are goneini, uh, and they can make cards vanish. Um, so you have them do a gesture like those sort of grabbing machines, grabbing a toy machines in funfairs. You have them hold their hand out open and then sort of drop it down, bend their fingers in to clamp like just miming over the deck, uh, reach over, go up, move the hand across, and drop. Um so then you teach them the gestures, and then you say, Oh, actually, I'm I'm loving this. I'm gonna sit in the audience and watch it. So then you actually you're you leave the stage or wherever you're performing, and you sit in the audience, which is a really fun um uh setup, and then you direct them, and so you go, right, and you you encourage them to really go for it. Um and if they really go for it, it's quite entertaining. If they're really restrained, they don't really go for it, that's quite entertaining in a different way. So it's win-win. So the first person, they each do their gesture, boom, bum, bum, and then you have them, you don't go near them. Then you have the um uh movine, goes church, and you go, Oh, how many how many moves did you do? And they say three, and so you go, oh, okay, well, your card should be third from top. So they count down to the third card, that's the first selection. Then flip iny, you have them flip over, you say flip your hand, so then they spread through the deck, and their card is reversed in the middle, and you're sat in the audience this whole time. And then the third person, gone iny, they they say what was their card, and they have them spread through the deck and it's vanished, and you're like, okay, that's weird. And then you go, Oh, hang on a minute, because you seem to sort of drop your hand near where was oh, it was near the card case. So then you have them pick up the card case, and underneath the card case is one card, and that's their selection. And then you leave them in a big round of applause for your magical superheroes, and they go back again.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

Well, I love the sitting in the audience, and I think I mean, if you've never done it, guys, please do it. It is one of the most fun things to do, to sit in the audience, because you know, and I know Darren talks about this an awful lot about you know, the magic should always be about the audience, and what better way for it to be about the audience than when you're not on the stage?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

Yeah, you're literally taking yourself out of the picture. Like, I think it's such a good exercise in ego reduction, like in a good way. Because, and they still know this is the thing, the weird thing, you know, you still get the applause, you know, they still know you're the one responsible for it. You know, you've still got another eight tricks in your show where you you can be amazing, you know. But it's just it's just and also I think because there's three of them up there that I was worried that sometimes when people are up by themselves, they get nervous, but because there are three of them, they there's that safety in numbers, they feel like they're not just by themselves, which I think helps. But yeah, just try it. And that's not like you say, that's that's not original with me going into the audience like Christopher Barnes, other people don't, but it just, yeah, just give it a go. Why? It's so fun, and you just it's so and it throws them because you know when people go, Oh, you can't have done it because it's in your hand, but like you're not even there, you're you're like you say, you're at the back of the room, you're 20 feet away, you know? And yeah, and it's just nice also. We all love as magicians tricks where you know, any trick where the uh the dirty work is done early on, and it's so because you've got three, you know, like you've got three faces, it's all done. So you're just it's just really nice because you can just you literally directing them, but all the all all the stuff is done, there's nothing to catch. You just get to yeah, and also variety. I think you know, I love variety, and you know, as a magician, especially if you're if you're a close-upper and you've done a trick for the 50,000th time, you know, like it's really fun seeing different personalities because people will add a little touch, and then some people will really go for it. You're like, wow, I didn't expect that. And then some people will add a random sound effect, and some so I think giving giving space for people to play and do more, I think is really interesting. Um, she's them, which is a really good, interesting podcast that um Kayla Dresher and Carissa Hendricks did. Brilliant, check it out, people about sort of feminism, women in magic is great, but loads of interesting and loads of interesting angles. Anyway, they had a thing which was one of the questions that they they they suggested asking. I can't remember the exact object, but it was something like ask yourself, can the participants' role be played by a table? Um like literally, are you just asking them to hold a thing, you know? And sometimes you are, and fair enough, but like I think it's such a great question. So you just go like, just yeah, let's give them people are really interesting, people like and different, so just give them more interesting, you know. I mean, you have this, Jamie. You have like, oh, now you're hearing voices in your head, whatever, you know. Like, give them give them more interesting things to do and space to play, and you know, it you it's more interesting for them, and it's more interesting for you as a performer because it keeps it fresh.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:56

Well, it's a good way to close out your switching. You're the first person who switched everything in an SOS. Um there we go. So we'll go for we switched Gemini Twins for back view, killer elite pro for uh untrue crime, holy moly for touching transposition, uh hydrostatic glass for morphing times without the G. Uh Wordo for secret steps, B-Wave for go with the flow, uh snaps for card number recap and coin jar, which I'm sad is gone because I love it, uh, is the other three magi. I think that's a really interesting set of tricks uh all the way through. And you know, in terms of switching them all out, I think that's I'm I'm glad you did because some of those tricks just sound absolutely brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

Thank you. Yeah, no, there's a lot of fun. I'm glad yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I like I like varieties, so hopefully there's a mix there.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

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SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

So that was a great way to close out your list, but of course, we do have a whole bunch of choices. Two of them you didn't have before, one of them we've never given someone on an SOS, so that's gonna be the first time. And then, of course, we've got four things that you get because you know you've been stuck on your island, and we need to give you a little bit of a uh helping

Care Package Pick: Piles Of Aces

SPEAKER_01 1:14:14

hand. So let's go to a care package then. Um we forgot to drop off your care package last time. I'm so sorry about that. I'll get onto the stuff. Don't know what they're planning out. So, what would you uh like to take in your care package? Of course, it's just a deck of cards, so any trick with a deck of cards that you would like.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:30

Yeah, I've been trying to shuffle shells and it just doesn't work, you know, cuts everywhere. Uh no, so my trick with a standard deck of cards uh is another one of mine, uh, and it's in the new Oh no, it's in my memory, it's just come out on the membership, so it might be in a future book. Uh and it's called Piles of Aces. Um, and it is it's a finding the aces, but I thought, wouldn't it be interesting to do it's a finding the aces, but where the audience finds them kind of in an in a guessing game kind of way. So I realized a well about I love interactive tricks, but sometimes it's not always possible to get people up on stage every time, or I can't remember who. Someone on a podcast called it a traffic problem. Sometimes, you know, you've got people coming and going, maybe Christopher Carter, I'm not sure. Anyway, someone. Or, you know, I I don't do cruise ships, but some places, you know, it's it's awkward, or some theatres is all because they've got to go around the side or wherever you're playing, you know. So I'm trying to add a few more things that people can do from their seat, you know, um, but they can still call out things in a in a parlour way. So anyway, so it's it's it's nice, it's uh yeah, shuffle, they can shuffle a deck of cards, uh, you show that they're mixed, and then you cut them into, you start off by cutting into two piles, and you just ask them, cut off two piles, you go, which one's which one's got an ace on? One of them has an ace on, and they pick which one has, and you just said you're gonna eliminate one, and whichever there's no funny stuff like that. You do eliminate whichever one they say you take away, so you go, no one here, no ace here, but here, turn it over. The one they eliminate does have an ace, uh you can turn over, or they can turn over the one that pile they picked and has got an ace in it, and you go, okay, so now we're gonna try and find uh two aces out of three. So then you have three piles. Um again, they can be different sizes, so you might be like, oh, this one's a bit bigger than that. Is there something is there uh something in that or not? Then they pick uh any one to eliminate. Again, you show they pick the one that wasn't the ace and the other two have aces, so now you've got uh three aces. And then for the last one, you need the last ace, so then you cut small packets of cards like this. Whenever they say stop, they insert the ace, uh, one of the aces, then you spread through and you show that the the place they inserted it is the fourth ace. So it just takes uh kind of finding the four aces and turns it into an interactive game. Um and the nice thing is like, yeah, it's from a from a shuffle deck. Uh literally, you know, what you cut the cards. Do you need to cut the cards? No, you don't even yeah, so you but you you they shuffle the cards, you get it back, and you go straight into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:45

So amazing. And that just uses a normal deck of cards.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Standard deck of cards can be shuffled. I mean, unless you know, if all the aces are clumped together, you might need to shuffle a bit more. But otherwise, any any any deck where they're sort of spread out. Because I wanted some more. Again, I love I love off-beat tricks and I love tricks that have a useful setup that make it really clean in performance. But I realize I think once you created this is a weird analogy, but uh as I say, I like weird analogies. I re I saw a thing about a people making a Bond film, and they said, Oh, well, the thing about action and Bond is that by this point he's been everywhere. So we're not sort of thinking in terms of action or scenes about what haven't we done, but it's more like what haven't we done recently or trying to fill out other areas that we haven't done. So I think it's that. Like I've after a while I've gone, well, I've created a bunch of tricks, and then you get into the habits and you go, Oh, what kind of trinks do I develop? What would I like to do a bit more of? And I thought, well, why haven't I done more ace assemblies? Because they're, you know, it's foul literally thousands of them, as we know from country archive. And I thought, well, because they're not interactive. So then, well, how can I make them interactive? And then I thought, oh, hang on a minute, maybe you could, you know, maybe you could just have different sized piles and then you can use a shuffle deck. So yeah, just like any shuffle deck, well, pretty much. There's there's a very couple of very basic slides, but um, yeah, and it's nice and interactive, but they're not having to actually take out cards themselves, which I think is nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

I think that's really interesting. Normally, with like ace cutting routines, you normally put an emphasis on, you know, make them e equal. Make them a little bit equal. But of course, that would negate, I guess, from an audience's point of view, that they have been placed in equal positions. Um, and although it still logically doesn't make sense that they would hit every single one, of course, if you had a truly mixed-up deck, if they were cutting those piles into random piles, the aces would be in different positions within the the height or stack of those cards. So I think it's a really interesting, you know, idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:36

It actually makes it feel more impossible, uh, the fact that there's Yeah, and I think, and also it was one of those happy accidents of if you can't hide it, paint it red. Because I was like, well, method white, I was like, without going into what the method is, like you can, you know, whatever happens, it can they it will work, you know, in terms of the one they pick won't have an ASOL. But just by the nature of shuffling, like you say, literally, because I am taking the piles from wherever they crop up, they were different. I was like, oh, this looks a bit weird. But at first, I was like, because it it's so hard for not, what do they call it, path dependency? It's so hard not taking all the baggage of the past of magic with us and going, oh, of course it needs to be that because it's been that for hundreds of years. And I was like, oh, this looks a bit weird because this pile's got 10 in it, this pile's got 30, and this pile's got five. And I was like, paint it red, you know. I mean, without going full Darren Brown on it, but you can just go, you know, you can be like, oh, this one's got a lot of cards in. This just has a few. Is mine trying to, you know, does that suggest that this is definitely the, you know, does this suggest, or is this, you know, is this the ref? And you just embrace it. And also it's fun for you as well. I think, again, it's that letting go of control a little bit. Like you're still going to do the arc, but as a performer, it's quite fun to just see um, you know, how it how it turns out, and then you can just adjust your script. It's it's like a really easy improv. You just adjust your script accordingly, or you go, oh, well, two of these are the same size, but one of these is a bit lower. And like you say, yeah, I think that's interesting. But yeah, you're right, you could do you're right, in not in that trick, but if you were doing like ban and directed verdict or whatever, one of the classic, more sort of hands-on uh spectator cuts the aces, you could, like you say, you could actively ask them to say, look, but obviously they they're not gonna be neatly spread out, so can you cut a smaller and a larger, and it might look more visually interesting as well. So yeah, that's a really good point. That's interesting.

Deep Dive On Diversity And Originality

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

Well, piles of aces are going with you, but Oliver, I want to imagine that you're about to dig a big sandy hole. We're gonna throw something inside. What are we gonna banish?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:30

Okay, so this is the opposite of what I like. I thought hard about this, and um we're gonna banish this is quite general in a way, we're gonna banish lack of variety and diversity in magic. Because I love variety, and you know, compared to comedy and art on theatre, obviously there's still a reasonable amount of variety, and it's getting better in magic, but there's just not always that much in terms of, you know, ESP cards. Like, again, I love them, but there's so many tricks with ESP cards. And then I know recently you've got like Adam Dadswell has done the everyday ESP, but you know, you've just got five cards, they could be anything in the world, and with in a lot of the time we're still using ESP and we're still talking about Ghostbusters, which came out in the 80s. Like, there's there's nothing wrong with that per se, but it's just there's so many more. I was thinking if you have a pie chart and a lot of magic stuff is sort of 80% one thing, and then a couple of other little bits and bobs, and there's so many possibilities within these methods, so I think that'd be good. Also, obviously, diversity in terms of thinking, in terms of backgrounds, you know, like things have moved on a bit with women in magic. I love Mystify Festival that's coming out, but you know, everyone could do more on that front. So I just think if we had more diversity uh in magic and more variety, then it would be more interesting. And I think some people don't care, which is fine. Some people care a lot, some people are like, yeah, whatever, some people actively don't, and that's fine. But I just think if you think of it like, you know, when we see something new, if you think about the first time we saw Lucy Darling or the first time you saw sort of like some of Tobias Dostel tricks, like we love that sense in magic sometimes, all of it, you know, where we go, oh my god, that's a really new, interesting thing that I feels feels fresh, you know. And I think the more we can encourage for ourselves, and by making my clear, I know I'm I'm checking my privilege here as a straight white guy, obviously, but the more we can have diversity, the more we can have variety, you just end up with even if you don't care about that in a good thing to do, the more interesting, different, varied magic stuff we're gonna have to enjoy. So that yeah, I'm a big fan of that. So, yes, more variety, more diversity, more interesting stuff for everyone to enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:34

I a hundred percent agree. I think that's an absolutely uh brilliant uh banishment. And like you say, I think it's so my my take on it is I think it's the modern parameters that magicians put on the art. So I think the word commercial I think often puts a restriction on things because we have an idea of what is commercial, and you know, I I always liken it to when you go to the magic circle and you're in the club room and you look around the walls, you have some of the most incredible things in those posters, you know. You have Pete Selbit being electrocuted, you know, you have someone going up a rope uh that which is coming out of a basket, you know, you've got Houdini who's upside down in this glass tank. And there was a time where people in in history were magicians, thought whimsically, they thought to the extremes, you know, it was all about life and death, and it was about you know supernatural things happening, not in a spooky way, just how how do these things happen around us and how can we affect them? Kind of like superheroes, I guess, nowadays. But we've lost that, we've lost whimsy, we've lost you know the impossibility of magic, and we've gone for the safe option. Uh, and I think that's kind of part of what's happened with the lack of variety and diversity, is people are too scared to challenge the ideals and the ideas of magicians, and I think that's why Tobias's magic is so good, because you watch what he does and it takes you back to you know watching Peter Pan for the first time and seeing that shadow moving on its own, you know, it takes you back to your childhood even as magicians, and I think a lot of magicians are scared to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:27

Yeah, I think so because I think also it comes into a lot of magicians are scared of I think also a couple of things I think that's so true. I think another couple of things at work maybe a lot of people when you're in a world for a long time, you stop noticing it. So you stop noticing it's weird, like you when you go, obviously, magic conventions are changing in terms of diversity, but you you know, you go in and you stop noticing that it's weird, or like you go and see a magic show, and then you know, all reviewers will say, or most of them will say, Oh, you know, but yeah, 90% of the people were male or whatever, you know, and you we stop noticing it. And I think in terms of exploring different styles, I think the other thing that's scary is people are scared to be unusual and weird because it is a bit scary and you don't know how it's gonna go. Um, but we'll come on to my uh my my horror story, but then also like you can play safe and you could, you know, playing safe, you could you can still bomb, you know, if you play safe. So like there and also sharing themselves. I find what's the sad is I know this is a different point. You sometimes people become less interesting and distinctive when they do magic. And I think that's so weird. You get people who have really interesting pets or a really unusual second career. That's why, like you say, acting in big different parts of my life, or you know, I don't know, they've they've adopted seven kids, or they've got these really interesting, or they used to be in the police force, whatever it is. They've got these really interesting aspects of their lives, and then it's also like then you we sort of leave them all behind and go into this hermetically sealed magic bubble where we just go, ping a card, in the card, blah blah blah la. You know, we we do the standard things because that's the standard way, and like you say, because it's commercial. Um, and then and then you leave and go back to this more interesting life, and you just go all of that. Can I think that's what you know, stand-up and all the rest of it. All of I want I don't want magic to sit out on its own weird little bubble silo somewhere. Or I want like magic to be like stand-up where you go use it to explore topics and life and bring that in, and that'll literally you know enrich you. And in terms of the commercial thing, doesn't it? You know, you know, if commercial equals commerce equals money, you know, piff the magic dragon, massively off me and Lucy Darling, massively successful, lots of money floweth in in Vegas, which is not like quirky fringe central, you know, it's like full on America corporate, you know, it's not corporate, but you know what I mean? Like, I think you're right. Like that combo, like I think it's a false, I think it's a false choice. But I think just just just give it a punt and and start small, show your friends, but just yeah, exactly. Sticking a bit of you in and sticking a little bit of something else. It's gotta, it's gotta be more interesting. Like, let's let's, yeah, exactly. Let's do it. Like, just explore, be yourself. Like, it's not that scary when you do it, and then you don't have that weird shift as well, where you're like talking like normal person, then you're cool. Now I'm cheeky chappy magic zone, and then come back into a normal person. Just bring it all in. Life is interesting, people are interested in people, so yeah, bring it all in.

Island Guest Pick: Liam Montier

SPEAKER_02 1:27:11

Let's make magic more varied.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:12

Uh so let's go to your guests. So obviously, you've been on your island for a long time, it's it must be a little bit lonely there. So let's give you a guest, a magical guest, which you're gonna spend the rest of your days with. Who are you gonna take?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:26

So I have to apologize for taking them away from their family or friends or loved ones, but uh, and he doesn't know this. I'm gonna take uh if if it if he'll come, I'm a big fan of consent, but if he'll if he'll agree to it, I'm gonna take Liam Montier. Uh, because coupler is one, he's been really supportive of my magic for years, which is nice. And I I without going too into it, I have struggled with self doubt and like have bouts of it every now and then in in in over the years, and it's really nice having someone who's been. Supportive because I joke it's a bit like a water clock like they used to have on the on the crystal maze. It shouldn't be that way, but it needs topping up, and then it slowly kind of goes down a little bit, and it just needs topping up every now and then. So he's been really supportive, but also he's really creative and he's playful. And like I started sharing my Evervescent membership with him when it came out. Uh Mike Vance does a brilliant job proofing it, and then Liam does a great job of just reading it and suggesting, and he's always got, well, you know him too, he's always got interesting suggestions. I know like what happens in Vegas, all that stuff. So he's someone else with a very like fizzy mind. And he just and also he's just a good act. He just seems, he's so I feel like nice needs nice is underrated. Niceness needs a comeback, especially in this world. Like, come on, like he's just nice. He's just nice and friendly, he's nice, funny, friendly. So all those things. And also, I don't think I get bored because he's one of those people he's always creating, he's always thinking about stuff. So, whatever the situation, John, or whatever, if if all the other people, you know, like they'll be like, Oh, there's a coconut, what trick can we do with that? Oh, there's uh, you know, whatever, there's uh there's a hermit crab. What can we do with that? Like, I'm not gonna get bored bouncing ideas around ever. So yeah, I go with them.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:05

I think that's a great shout. Uh, I think Liam is uh again, we've done two episodes of the podcast with him. Uh we've done an SOS with him as well, and you know, he's someone that I've known since I was in my teens, I've known him for a very, very long time, and he's never ever strayed from who he is, which I think is another really interesting trait. He's always been who he is, he's always thought the way that he is, and he's someone who he he kind of just knows himself, I think. He knows what he likes, and and he's not afraid to just be that person and and to to go in that direction. And like you said, he is one of the cleverest magicians I think we have alive, and the way that he can take different plots and ideas and just mash them together to create this ridiculously cool piece of magic.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:05

I j I wouldn't take him to my island because I'd find him so annoying with how people be like, oh, there's another genius thing, oh, and it all sort of but also it's mashed together, it's not like some Frankenstein thing either. It's mash it together and still manages to be really simple and elegant. And you're like, well, that's not fair, is it? Yeah, exactly. And he's always got, oh, you could do that. Oh, yeah, I could do that. Okay, yeah, yeah. It's just no, it's so nice, but without being like, without being like an ounce of arrogance or whatever with it. But yeah, so clever, especially with like, yeah, just just just the angle on it, and things just work. You know, when you do, and also you know, tricks are a pleasure to perform, some of them, but also it shouldn't just be about you know fiddling with cartoon, but sometimes they're just a pleasure to do. You know, you get some tricks and you read them in a book and they're fine, but they just there's a faffy displacement, or it feels really awkward, or it's okay, but it goes like you just go through his stuff or his advent calendar, I know separate plug, but just like brilliant, like best value manager, apart from Alexander, unlimited. Uh uh, but yeah, it's like you know, you go through, and everyone you go, oh, oh that's nice, and oh, oh, oh, and that's there now.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:11

Oh, and then oh no, yeah, all nice, there we go, you know. He is brilliant, and he's going with you. So there

Best Memory: Wedding Vanish

SPEAKER_01 1:31:19

you go. Uh now we're gonna give you a memory. So obviously, maybe it's raining on your island, you know, maybe you haven't built a shelter yet. You're you're not you're not sure how to do that. So you're gonna be a little bit sad every now and again. So we're gonna give you a memory just to just to cheer you up and make you a little bit happy. So, what is the memory you would like to replay on your island?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:40

So, my memory is from a couple of decades ago, actually. But also, I figure if I'm gonna there, I'm quite a family man and I'm gonna win miss my wife. So I'm gonna do a memory, but this is a magical memory. So when I got married, um I vanished my wife uh at the end of the ceremony. Uh she came back, I hastened to add, uh, it wasn't an insurance thing. Uh and um it was great. So I got married at uh Oliver Table, another excellent magician. So as people may know, he's an amazing, amazing magician, again, lovely guy, and also has a um barn wedding venue with a stage and stuff. Lovely place. So uh early days, so I was thinking we were one of the first to get married there. He he, you know, he sort of like said, Oh, why don't you come get married here? So we did, and we had a wonderful, like rustic slash dramatic wedding. So um, yeah, and I joked to my wife, I was like, Can I, you know, can we how can we can we can we do a little something? She was like, Yeah, sure, why not? So uh with the help of Oliver Table, who lend us some stuff, we uh we had the ceremony uh with a celebrant and stuff and had the standard way of doing things. And then uh Ruth was wearing a kind of gown and uh like a cape, a hooded cape type thing. And then we went for a little stroll around the stage, and then I went and then whooped the gown away, and then she was gone. And then I said, Oh, I'll just go find her, be back soon. And then we had and then I went off, and then you know, we had sort of five minutes or so to ourselves, and then we came back in, you know, then music came up, and we came back in from the back and you know, like we re-entered and stuff, uh, which was great. So it's a very, very happy memory of my wedding day there.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:13

What a great idea. Uh, I think that's lovely. Uh really nice. I remember seeing Justin Wilman's as well. Did you ever see his where he um him and his wife are dancing and then he hit she reclines him back and then he's sort of ballading.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:26

Oh, a new spot. Oh, lovely. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you've got you know, A, yeah, A, you rather half knows what you're getting they're getting into, at least, you know, if they if they do like magic. I know some some people's you know partners hate magic, but at least my my my wife's lovely wife was always been really supportive. But um, yeah, exactly. It's just nice to have a little touch. But it was funny because she didn't want me to see the uh the night before, I think it's be fine to say she didn't want me to see the dress until the day. But we had and we hadn't told the rest of the people, so we wanted to um you know keep it a secret, but we had to rehearse it to make sure it would work. So we were like covering, she had, I think she had it covered with like plastic bags and stuff like that over the thing, so I couldn't see it while we were kind of doing the, you know, working out the choreography of how to pull this off, but whatever it was. Way too late because we we we'd planned too many things and to do it all ourselves at like whatever it was about like about 9:30 at night or something the night before with like wearing bin bags and trying this thing out. But you know, that's that's the uh the other side of showbiz people don't see. Um, and it's nice because afterwards, you know, people joke so oh, you're gonna make your wife disappear, whatever. When they do say that, I go, Oh, well, actually, I did. And we're like, what? So it's a nice, it's a nice memory to come back to.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:34

So yeah, that. Well, I think that's a great memory that you get to relive. Uh, but we want a horror story from you

Horror Story: The Shattering Jar

SPEAKER_01 1:34:42

now. But don't worry, because we're gonna put that in a little glass bottle, put a little cork in, we're gonna get rid of it. It's gonna go, so you don't have to worry about it after you tell all of us, you know. And there's only like five people that listen to this, so it's fine, it's not too bad. Um what is your horror story?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:58

So this is from I can't remember, two or three years ago, so not that long ago. Um, and it's funny you talked about sticking it in a glass um vessel because it also involves a glass vessel. So I was doing so. Basically, I used to tour around, do fringe shows and stuff. Then I took a sort of high test where I did my more of my other side of my uh job, which is sort of business writing, copywriting, creating, that sort of things. And then in recent years, I've got more back into magic and close up and so I thought I would, as part of that, I would do a showcase. So I went to like a you know, showcase event, and it's one of these things, you know, there's whatever 20 people, you've each got 10 minutes, you know, it's a long day. And I was really nervous. So I thought, oh, what shall I do? And as you know, I love novelty, but I thought I'll play it safe, I'll play it safe, I'll do stuff from my touring show, you know, when I'm used to tour that and more, and and you know, I'll I'll be do the things that I know will work really solid. I'll do this, you know, I'll do a card trick thing, I'll do the uh ultimate snack machine I have, which is kind of like think or drink but with snacks. And then I had a midboard bit, and I was like, oh, well, I'll do something that doesn't involve talking. I know I'll do uh which I've been hundreds of times. Barry Richardson, based on a Barry Richardson thing I read, where you've got a jar of rice and you pour, uh you've got a jar, you pour some rice into it, and then you insert, I think he inserts a knife, I inserted a drumstick, and then you let go, and it's a physics thing, and then lo and behold, the uh rice stays held by the uh rose. So I went along, you know, it was one of these, I was, I was whatever I was, number 16 on the bill or something like that. So spent all most of the day weighing around, feeling really nervous, went and thought, no, come on, you can do this. Went out, da-da, hello, da-da-da. First trick went fine, all good, right? Second trick, and because I like interaction, anything where I tap the jar and then point at the audience enough and clap, like you step, we clap kind of thing. So then I so I go clink, clap. And this trick I've done for you know five, ten years, hundreds of times. Clink, clap, clink, clink, clap, clap, clink, clink, clap, clean, clap, clink, cling, shh, shh. And the entire jar looks like a big girl can jar. The entire jar very visibly and audibly just shatters into pieces in front of me. And I pause and everyone, but and then everyone laughs, and I'm actually like, well, that's never happened before, because it hadn't. And I I'm sure there's some hilariously witty thing that I couldn't have said, but I was just busy just going inside, just going, oh, bleep. And then, you know, put a brave face in and go, Oh, never mind, we're still doing the next trick. And thankfully, the next trick all involved sealed containers and stuff and was fine. And I got through and it was okay, but it wasn't great. But I was just like, come on, of all the times and like of all the like literally a hundred times. So now I have safe to say that will go in the shard, the shattered shards will go in the glass bottle in the sea. I will continue to do it as I do now with a definitely plastic, definitely non-shatterable container, and uh we can all move on with our lives.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:46

Now I think it's lucky that the audience laughed. It does sound like you I like it could have been one of those jokes where the comedian does this really long thing and then it just leads to nothing. It kind of reminds me of like a Tommy Cooper thing where Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:59

No, I know what you mean, but I mean you just go, oh, although people used to do the um oh, was it Mason Jonathan that went, ah, the mystery of the linking rings, and you just pulled them out and they already relinked, and he was like, oh, well, that saves time. Yeah, exactly. So that would have been good. Exactly. That would have been good. So I think, yeah, if I was if I was less shell-shocked, I think, you know. I know, I know magicians like there's the subset of horror story where you tell a story, well, it is a horror story, but your quick thinking saves the day. But I think this should be a more honest one. My quick thinking wasn't that quick, it was fine, and I just came off and just went, so we all have those gigs sometimes, too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:31

Okay, well, that horror story's gone. You don't ever have to worry about it again. You're safe.

Dream Show: Early Derren Brown

SPEAKER_01 1:38:37

Now, you've got one more choice, and it's a show. Obviously, you need a bit of entertainment on your island. Now, this show could be something that you've never got the chance to see, so it could be a historic thing, or it could be a show that you enjoyed so much that you would love to see it again. What would your show be?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:53

So I would say honourable mention to, these are both things I've seen, honourable mention to any of the old international convention days. Because I feel like I'm partly the time I was getting into it, also brilliantly organized by the Macmillan family in Old Britain. And they just had so many, without name, like first time I saw Tyler Wilson, first time I saw so tamarized, I think, like so many amazing memories of performances. So that would be the honourable mention. But the one I'm gonna go for is one I did see. Uh, I mean, I saw them both. The other one I'm gonna go for is uh Darren Brown, and I know he gets mentioned a lot, but it's Darren Brown's first live tour before before he was massive, before, you know, he was sort of reasonably well known. I had the the program I found the other day, and he still had an ad for like rent a van, van rentals in, you know, like he was it was in High Wickham. Uh I went with a friend and it was just brilliant. And one of the things I loved, which is the same thing I've always liked about Penn and Teller or loved, is it felt it was amazing showmanship and shape and everything else, but it also felt like doable, like not that I would do his stuff, but like you know, I can't, I don't have access to a learjet to vanish like Hopfield or whatever. I haven't got like he he didn't have he wasn't throwing money at the problem. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you know what I mean? It felt like the same with Penantella, like he's just great thinking, great thinking and great um performance skills that just transformed this show into you know amazing. And he started, you know, started with the just this this voice, you know, that he's he's nowhere to be seen, just this voice for the first trick, ending with um, you know, he got standing ovation with a magic square, and it was just such a like way of going, look, it's not what you do, it's the way you do it. Just everything was just so smart, and just oh, that's interesting. And even when you can see, I've been saying to people that you know, when you're a magician for a while, you do lose the amazement aspect, but on the good side, you learn you get the appreciation, and it was just every little bit was like you know, chef's kiss. I was like, oh, he's used that method there, but done that with it. Oh, and he's taken that bit that can be dry and made it really interesting. Oh, and he's hooked them in because he's done that, and obviously he's got a big team, like a great team and all the rest of it, but just he just stuck with me, and like obviously he's done loads since, but just the first, first, first live experience of seeing what he could do was just amazing and inspiring.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:17

Yeah, I think everyone who is a Darren Brown fan remembers. Oh, it sounds a little bit wrong saying this, remembers their first time with Darren Brown. Um I think everyone remembers it, but you you know, the the other striking thing about his show, you mentioned about like throwing money at it and stuff like that, is and obviously this likely wasn't Darren Brown's decision. Uh I mean it may well be, I I I'm not to say, but it always strike strikes me, or still does, that the production value of the show is very clever as well, because it feels big budget, but it also doesn't feel big budget at the same time. Like it's it kind of reminds me of what Ben Hart's doing now. When you see Ben Hart's shows, he has these very subtle things like either lights coming down or moving, and they're very tiny things, but they feel really theatric, really well considered, really big budget, that kind of big moment. And you know, Darren's current show, which obviously we're not gonna say anything about because people may not have seen it and we don't want to give spoilers away, but there are moments in this which are definitely high budget and high concept, and it's probably the biggest budget thing that I've seen in one of his shows for for a good few years. Um, but it is exactly like you just said, it's a different way of thinking. The Darren's shows were always so polished and so well put together, but didn't feel like this like big Las Vegas spectacle.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:46

Yeah, and I think I've seen that, yeah. I think that's that's a really good point because I've seen some of the spectacle things, and I think you're right, like even though there is money, or like with the set with the letters on and whatever, like like you say, like there's a few iconic things, and also even though there is, you never it never gets in the way. I know, like they say, like good folio artist sounds like that, or good editing, it doesn't get in the way of the story, it's almost unseen, and it it's that, like you appreciate it, but you never lose the focus of what's going on. It's not like you say, you know, lasers and smoke and everything else, and you're like, yeah, but what's what's the illusion here? Like, where is you know, where is the where is the person in the box at this point? You know, it's always super clear, even though it's artistic and all the rest of it, what's going on, who they're talking to. And like, yeah, he's even like even when like with the like they say they've got stage hands, they're sort of there, but they're not there. They're sort of not hidden, but they're peripheral. So your your photo, it's always really clear what you're doing. And I think I take your point about Ben Hart. Or I thought in a in an analogous way with um, I was remembering early shows of Eddie Izzard, and he'd have like a giant book and then he'd step down, or he'd have like the background of of one of them where it's sort of like a a um oh words, like conservatory, and then you've got this sort of thing coming towards you, but it's just subtle, it's all subtle changes in lighting, but it's always never never fighting for your attention, it's only just adding to the experience, definitely.

Where To Find Oliver And Closing

SPEAKER_01 1:44:11

Well, Darren is gonna be on your island with you uh performing that show, which is great. Uh so let's go back over it. Your care package, you put piles of aces. Your banishment was a lack of variety and diversity and magic. Your guest is Liam Montier. Uh, your memory is your vanishing vanishing your wife during your wedding. Your horror story was a glass jar shattering in your hand, and your show is Darren Brown's first live show. What a great addition to your island. I think it's gonna be a fun, fun place to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:42

Yeah, lots of lots of fun things to see and remember and play with. So I'm I'm I'll be a happy bunny.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:47

Well, thank you for inviting us to your island. It's been lovely. It's I love what you've done with the place. Um, now if people want to find out more about obviously your membership, Evervescent, the stuff that you're gonna do with Alakazam, all of that good stuff, where can they go to, Oliver?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:01

Okay, cool, cool, cool. So um I probably need to make this all slicker, but for now, basically, um all my books uh to date, because they're print on demand, they're available on Lulu, which is Lulu.com, just Google my name, and you can get the plot ones and effervescent and all that stuff's on there. Uh OliverMeech.com is my general sort of um homepage. But if you want to um drop me a message um there or Facebook, I'm I need to be on more socials, but for now, just Oliver Meach on on on um Facebook and you'll find that. Otherwise, um yeah, drop me a line, check out the Alakazam lecture. Um, yeah, book me. I I love I've done some lecturing, love doing more. Book me for other lectures. I'm also I'm a UK slash US citizen, so uh feel free to book me in America. Uh and that's it, really. Yeah, just drop me a line, but that's the main places. Um check out my books on Lulu and uh hopefully I will see some of you at the Alakazam live.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:52

Amazing. Well, thank you for coming back on the podcast, Oliver. Oh, thank you for having me. It's been a delight. And of course, please go and listen to Oliver's original podcast as well. Uh, he was all like we said, it was at the end of the first season, so you're gonna have to go back a little bit, but it was a great, great episode. And you'll also find out why he chose his original list, which we have not covered here. And of course, he mentions his book and his non-magic item on that list as well. So do go check that out. Do go check out um his studio live, which we've just worked out will be live by the time this goes out. We've already worked that out, so it will be about it, will already be available to go and watch that. I already know it was great, it was a great night. It was a great, great, great event. I already know it. So yeah, go and check that out, and we'll see you again next week with another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Have a great week, by the way.

The 1914 Announcement

SPEAKER_03 1:46:45

The news is out. The 1914 has found a new home. We are proud to announce that Alakazam Magic are now the proud custodians of the 1914. What does this mean for you? Simply put, everything you love stays exactly where it belongs. The aesthetic, the quality, the philosophy. The website remains unchanged. Your instructional content is safe. The classics that defined the 1914 will be restocked and made available once again. And with our industry-leading infrastructure and customer service behind the scenes, the future is stronger than ever. But this isn't just about preservation. Work has already begun on a series of new 1914 releases, projects that have been quietly evolving for years and are finally ready to see the light of day. This is the next chapter, built on respect for the past, driven by belief in the future. Thank you for your continued support. Thank you for coming along with us on this journey. We are the new 1914.