Deborah's Courageous Journey: From Emotional Abuse to Empowerment and Advocacy

What if awakening in a psychiatric ward could be the catalyst for a transformative life change? Join us as Deborah Griffiths courageously shares her journey from a toxic marriage to becoming an empowered single mother and advocate. Her story is a testament to the strength and resilience required to break free from an abusive environment and rebuild a life filled with purpose and hope. Alongside Deborah, we explore the deeply complex layers of emotional abuse, highlighting the critical importance of recognizing the subtler signs of control and manipulation.

As we navigate the intricacies of Deborah's  past relationship, stunning reflections emerge on the challenges of overcoming parental alienation and the resilience needed to reconnect with estranged children. Deborah’s narrative, intertwined with powerful personal stories, reveals the painful yet necessary steps taken to address substance abuse within the family. Through her journey, we celebrate transformation—her son’s triumph over addiction and the newfound strength and independence of her youngest child. This exploration underscores the necessity of setting boundaries and the power of unwavering support in overcoming familial adversities.

This season finale is not just a closing chapter but a celebration of survival and growth. Reflecting on 28 impactful episodes, including the tragic yet inspiring story of Nicole, we honor the countless survivors of domestic violence who have bravely shared their stories. With heartfelt gratitude, we appreciate our guests and listeners, promising more engaging content and enlightening stories in the coming year. As we prepare to return, we remind survivors that hope and support are always within reach, encouraging you to continue this journey of empowerment with us.

Chapters

• 0:04 Overcoming Toxic Marriage
• 12:12 Recognizing and Recovering From Emotional Abuse
• 19:34 Navigating Divorce and Toxic Behavior
• 27:02 Healing From Parental Alienation and Abuse
• 38:44 Empowering Survivors of Domestic Violence
• 53:09 Finale of Season One Celebrations

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Hi everyone and welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia, a podcast where we discuss autism spectrum, mental health challenges and anybody who has had an adverse story that can share how they've overcome that adversity and leave people feeling empowered, connected, full of love and hope, with courage and determination, especially in a world where we are made to feel disconnected from one another. Our goal here on this podcast is to help people feel connected and feel like we are more alike than different. On this podcast episode today, we have a very special guest, deborah Griffiths. I met her. I had the privilege of meeting her at CreativeCon back in February of this year and I will be seeing her in Chicago again in 2025. And I will be seeing her in Chicago again in 2025. And Debra is an amazing person. I remember when she did her podcast pitch in front of the stage for everyone, and the reason I was drawn to her story is all the reasons we're going to talk about on today's podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:22

Debra is a survivor of a toxic marriage. She's undergone a lot of abuse in her marriage and she now uses what she has gone through and has a company called From Broken to Boldness and it helps people, especially women, who've gone through abusive relationships and she helps them with building their self-esteem, reclaiming their life. Because everyone knows and as a therapist here I can also say one of the first things that gets taken from people in any kind of toxic relationship whether it be an intimate relationship, whether it be toxic friendships, whether it be a toxic employment relationship or family relationship dynamic the first thing that gets taken is, in fact, your sense of self-worth, your sense of self-esteem and your feeling that, like who am I? I don't you know. If everyone hates me, I'm going to hate me too. Like what's wrong with me? It's not uncommon for people to ask these questions when they've gone through things, especially when they are belittled by someone who makes them feel like the world is against them. And without further ado, let's just please welcome Debra to the platform. Debra, welcome on here.

Speaker 2: 2:50

Good morning Welcome. Thank you, Sonia, for having me. Thank you for the opportunity. I look forward to having the chat.

Speaker 1: 2:58

Well, thank you so much for being here, debra. Why don't you tell people a little bit about you, in the sense of like sharing a little bit of your story? Talking about you know just who you are.

Speaker 2: 3:13

Sure, I am actually divorced. I'm a mother of three children, two boys and a girl, who have long flown the coop. But I found myself about 25 years ago waking up in the psych ward, learning that I had attempted suicide. And when my doctor who I had been seeing because I had been battling some depression and didn't know quite why I was battling depression he came into my room and said your environment is making you sick and that hit me like a 10-ton truck, you know. And I realized that the marriage that I had been in was toxic and that I needed to get out of it was toxic and that I needed to get out of it.

Speaker 2: 4:08

I wanted to show my kids that they had a strong mother. I also wanted to show my kids that the abuse, what was going on, this type of relationship is not normal. I did not want them to get into these kind of situations, nor did I want them to learn to treat other people, especially intimate partners going forward like this. So I felt like the abuse needed to end with me. So I left the marriage. And so I left the marriage and slowly but surely took two of the three kids, because at the time the oldest one was 14 and could decide which parent he could live with, and he chose his father.

Speaker 2: 4:57

So I took the other two kids and I had been a stay-at-home mom. So I had to find a place to live. I had to find a job that could support two kids and myself and slowly rebuild my life, including getting my kids some some help, because there was a lot of. It was a bitter divorce. I'll just say that it was very bitter and the kids, you know, got caught up into it. You know they exhibit some of the typical behavior, you see, based on their ages. At the time A lot of it was acting out or, you know, anger, but it just took a long time to rebuild. I eventually worked my way up the corporate ladder and put myself back to through school and finished college and got a college degree and worked with you know been working with my kids. I have a great relationship with the three kids today.

Speaker 1: 5:57

You know, and you know it's a very courageous uh story. You shared in the what you've overcome and I know it takes a lot of bravery to actually say that this is what had happened to me. This is where I ended up, because I was in such a toxic environment, waking up in a unit, because I tried to end my life. Um, tom, so if we were to dissect this marriage, when you look back at it, what were some of the things you started to notice first, like what were some of the red flags you that were getting presented to you that you missed at the time, and how did it progress into a place where you got so broken down that you felt like the only way out is just not being on earth anymore?

Speaker 2: 6:47

That's a great question. And it wasn't any one thing. It was a combination of years of little things that kind of kept adding up. I was 19 when I married him. When I met him, I thought he was the one being brought up.

Speaker 2: 7:05

Catholic Divorce was not in the vocabulary and so, you know, I took my vows very, very seriously. Probably the first red flag and I talk about a little bit in my book is when my dad went to walk me down the aisle. My stomach did a huge flip. To walk me down the aisle, my stomach did a huge flip and I remember grabbing onto my dad and he said you know, you don't have to go through this. Well, by that time there's 200 people in the church and they're all looking at me because I'm literally in the entrance and stuff. And I thought, no, I thought I chalked it up to wedding day dinners and I didn't think you know anything more about it. And then it was just little things throughout the years, like being told not to wear nail polish or very controlling like no, I don't think you should go see. You know, your friends, let's go do this instead.

Speaker 2: 8:10

Over the course of the years there was more and more isolation from my family. He'd find ways of taking, maybe, things that I had said in the past and twisting them and turning them. Turning them, you know, to make it think like, oh, yeah, yeah, well, maybe you know, maybe, maybe maybe you're right. You know, I realize now he's probably really paranoid, you know, because not letting me talk to you know too much to other people I wanted at one point in time there's an age difference about six years between my oldest and the second one, and I wanted to go back to work, you know, just to kind of get out of the house a little bit, because by that time the oldest one was in, in like preschool type of thing, and I was basically told well, if you take a job, you still have to clean the house and keep the car up and keep the yard up, and I want my shirts pressed and ironed. So I was made to feel like, well, why bother? You know, it wouldn't even allow the dry cleaners to, you know, to press the shirts Right, and so it just eventually got to the point where I didn't realize it at the time, but I was walking on eggshells, you know, if the sky was blue, no, there's a few clouds on it. So, whatever I said, I was made to feel like I was wrong.

Speaker 2: 9:39

And going back to that stomach flip, I'm about 17 years into the marriage, right, and picked up a magazine National Woman's Magazine in the grocery stores doing the weekly shopping and there was a recipe on the cover and I thought, well, let me try that something. And there was an article in there about verbal abuse and I remember seeing it and I just put the magazine down, didn't think about it. And a couple of days later I picked up the magazine and I read the article and this woman talks about how her stomach was flipping every time her husband would come home and she knew that there was something wrong. Stomach was flipping every time her husband would come home and she knew that there was something wrong. Now, by this time in the marriage, my, my ex was, um, doing a lot of traveling, so he'd be gone for almost a week at a time, which was kind of like a breathing room now that I look back at it. And when he opened up the garage door coming home, it was like Friday afternoon. My stomach flipped and I thought, oh no, this couldn't be. So the next week, um, it happened again and by about that time.

Speaker 2: 10:58

Um, I decided to to seek some some professional help because I didn't know, I wasn't happy. And I picked up the phone one day and talked to my mom. Now, granted, this was back in the day when the rates were cheaper to dial after 7 o'clock or to call after 7 o'clock than now, but this was during the middle of the day and, again, even calling my parents, it was very controlled, like how often I could call them, when I could call them, etc. So I call my mom and I said is everything OK? And I said you know, I don't know. I said all I know is I'm not happy and I don't know why. And she said I have been praying for this call for years, oh my. And I said what? And she said we talked a little bit about some stuff, maybe why I wasn't happy. And she said you know, because we always thought he was controlling but we couldn't put our fingers on it, thought he was controlling but we couldn't put our fingers on it. So that's when I knew I needed to probably get some help and kind of figure this out, what was going on.

Speaker 2: 12:12

And I remember the first visit. I'd written a bunch of stuff down and I'm reading it to the doctor. And at the end of the session, I mean, he didn't say a word, I just kept talking. And at the end of the session, I mean he didn't say a word, I just kept talking. And at the end of the session I just said you know, I don't know what's wrong with me. And he looked at me and he said there's nothing wrong with you. And that just started my wheels turning. It's like, okay, if there's nothing wrong with me, then what is going on? Am I not happy?

Speaker 2: 12:44

And that's when we slowly started unraveling some of this stuff. I learned about codependency and boundaries and, um, you know, was trying to talk to my ex at the time and and I had to be very careful about it because I didn't know when he was gonna fly off the coop and and so it it just didn't. It just kept spiraling downhill and he tried to make an effort, you know to to make some changes, but it was you know how your your pendulum it was. It's stuck in one way. Then all of a sudden it goes the other way. It's like wait a minute, a minute, I can't handle that. I need, I need something more in the middle and it just kept spiraling and I started to get very, very depressed. As I say that, that to the point where you know I attempted suicide.

Speaker 1: 13:38

And so, and that's a really really that's really tough. And you know, I do see a lot of, you know, understanding and I have a lot of understanding, rather, about how you felt in that sense because you know, based off alone what you're saying about how everything was controlled. Even if you had a job, there were certain tasks that needed to be done, things done in a certain way. It seemed like you know also even your own parents. The amount of contact you could have with your parents, even with your friends, that was also very controlled as well. So it seems like you were practically living in a prison in your own home. You know, you know it's like you were a prisoner in your own home and the prison guard really was your ex.

Speaker 2: 14:29

Yeah, you know, when you now look at it it does paint that picture and as, again, this took 17 years to get to, to get to this point. So you know we did have some good memories. I mean, there's always. I have great memories of you know, my kids and doing things with them and stuff like that. I don't want to paint it all as the the, the bleak, a bleak picture, but when it but, it was enough. What do they call it? It's like love. You know, things are all of a sudden good and then you think everything's good and then all of a sudden there's a bomb drops and it's like what in the world just happened? And you're you're thinking, well, what did I do, what did I say? And it hadn't been nothing, you know, and I could have sneezed the wrong way. It couldn't have been nothing, you know, and I could have sneezed the wrong way, and the bomb just drops. And then you know, then things start getting good again and then the bomb drops again. So it was that constant, what they now call love bombing that I was involved in. So that's why it took.

Speaker 2: 15:43

It took a long time for me to kind of realize it and again, 25 years ago. They didn't really talk about it, they didn't even call what I was going through gaslighting. They barely called it verbal abuse and really didn't even liken that to domestic abuse, which we now know is part of gaslighting is part of domestic abuse, abuse, which we now know is part of gaslighting is part of domestic abuse. So there's, you know, I'm kind of like living in a time where there's not a lot talked about or and again, control. You know, it was more like my parents thought he was controlling Not so much. You know, narcissism wasn't even really talked about, you know then, and him just exhibiting narcissistic tendencies which led to this. So I'm grateful now there's a lot more information, you know, for people to be aware. It's just sad that still so many people are caught in these type of situations and why.

Speaker 2: 16:46

I really kind of want to talk about it and raise these red flags, and it's not just the red flags, it's the subtleties of, of the abuse. Because you can, you, you know, I'm the kind of type, I'm the type of person that I try to look for the good in somebody before I ever see the bad. And you know, it's so easy to chalk off something like OK, well, he got bad. Maybe he's just having a bad day, and then it gets to the point of how many times are you going to chalk it up to he's having a bad day? Is writing it as an excuse? That's something that I didn't correlate to, and one thing is I will say is I wish I had listened to my gut at the very beginning, but then again I don't regret anything because number one, I learned a a lot and I wouldn't have the three kids that I have today.

Speaker 2: 17:53

So I and I'm the type of person that thinks that things happen, and things happen to us or for us to get to a certain point, you know, as part of our purpose, our overall purpose I feel like now, you know, it's my turn to help somebody else. Somebody else gets that flip in their stomach from what I just said today and made a change to save their life, then this is worth it.

Speaker 1: 18:23

You know and when you look back at you know the that flip in your stomach that you had when you were walking down the aisle. Was there something that you may have noticed when you were dating that we can look back and reflect on and think you know what this is, this was not okay, I should have or not? I don't want to, and I teach my clients this all the time. We never want to be like should have, you know, like I tell them stop shooting yourself all the time. Right, because we never want to say should have.

Speaker 1: 18:58

But what is something maybe I learned from this? As another way, let me rephrase that Look, what is something I could have learned from this when I look back, you know in the dating stages let alone the marriage, but the dating stages that when I was all dolled up walking down the aisle with all these people at the church, I could have avoided maybe. Perhaps I could have maybe changed direction or try to work things out or whatever you had to do beforehand or said something beforehand. Knowing what you know now, what is something in dating that you may have seen?

Speaker 2: 19:38

That's a great question, because there was an incident. We met in college. It was both our first year in college and about it was like the first week of college. Basically we met and we both had early morning classes and so we would meet in the parking lot and for the most part for I don't know half a dozen, maybe a dozen times, he he'd come to my car, we'd sit in the car, we'd talk, um, listen to music. You know, before we had to actually get out to, you know, get go to class. One morning I'm in the parking lot and he doesn't come over, he just sits there, won't look at me, won't, won't do anything, you know nothing. And I just sat in the car and did my thing and and then um, go to leave for class and I said good morning and nothing.

Speaker 2: 20:31

I got like the dead silent treatment and uh, it took almost all day, you know, for for him to kind of finally say you know, do I have to be the one to do all the work, you know? And blah, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like I'm sorry, I didn't know that this bothered you, you know you never said anything to me and I look back now is like, well, that was, he should not have treated me that way, you know, he, I did deserve a conversation and if it's bothered, and then then say, hey, you know, hey, how about? Maybe on Tuesdays you come into, you know, you come to my car, and Thursdays I go to your car, something to that effect, and it was through. Uh, and there were a couple of other incidents. I can't quite recall them off off the top of my head, but I know that that was a pretty pivotal one early on.

Speaker 2: 21:30

And and again, I didn't say anything to my parents or anything, because didn't didn't really think to, because I think if I had said something to my mom she probably would have said, well, that seems weird and um, but going back after I left, I've always kept, I've always kept, like, all the cards and think, you know, my kids artwork, all that kind of stuff throughout the years and I'm looking at all these cards and a bunch of them must have started off saying I'm sorry, I made you angry, I'm sorry'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I'm like, oh my gosh, and you know, I'm apologizing for things that I shouldn't have apologized for so your ex made you feel like you were the problem each and every time, yes.

Speaker 1: 22:42

Was there ever a time you remembered him taking accountability for anything? No, no. And was there ever a time when you decided then, like was there ever a time then your kids, like, did they ever get treated also by your ex in the same kind of way, or was it different?

Speaker 2: 23:03

That's another interesting question my oldest I always joke that I have his and her boys and a combination girl. By that I mean my oldest one looks like his dad. My second son looks like me and then my daughter has both of her brother's features and looks and stuff. My oldest one was always the favorite and I think maybe a lot of it was because he looked like his dad. When my second one came along he looked at him and said, oh, he looks different. And and that was before I could you know the nurse the nurse came and put him in my arms and when I took a look at him and I went, oh no, I thought he looks like me, you know, and I said it's okay, it's amazing what DNA and genes do. And always throughout the years there was a difference between how the two boys were treated.

Speaker 1: 24:11

the years there was a difference between how the two boys were treated and a lot of times, people with a toxic kind of personality um will do that right. They will love to. You know, divide people divide because in doing so right they're able to control, keep their control, have their power, exert their power. And you know, one of the keys of people who are toxic is they want you to feel like you cannot live without them, that you would not have, you would not have anything. You would not have anything If it wasn't for them. It's, you know that it's just one of those things they want you to feel like. Okay, like you're. You know that You're suffocating In there the air you need.

Speaker 2: 25:09

Well, and his parting words to me Were you will never make it and no one will ever love you, and they're the air you need. Well, and his parting words to me were you will never make it and no one will ever love you, which, by that time, that was the wrong thing to say to me. So it just propelled me to prove him wrong, and I, you know I have.

Speaker 1: 25:35

Absolutely you have, I have, so you. So tell me a little bit now about, like what it was like to go through this divorce. Now I know his parting words were very harmful and untrue and, once again, all driven most likely because of his fear he was losing control at that point of view, and he was losing control of a family unit. So what, um? So what was the divorce process like for you? You know what was it like with the kids.

Speaker 2: 26:21

Well, once he I finally had the courage to say this isn't working, I can't do this anymore. He took it better than I thought he would and we each got attorneys started doing the process. But when it came time for me to move out I couldn't even get all my stuff. He had changed the locks thankful that I had the child support garnished, because there was other aspects that that he was supposed to reimburse me for and it didn't happen until like 18 years later. So it was pretty, pretty messy and he started alienating with the kids that the oldest one particularly, got to the point where he wouldn't even talk to me if I were to call, say hi at the weekly visits we were still living in the same city at the time oh, he wouldn't, he wouldn't come. This is my oldest child now. He wouldn't come. You know, spend time with me for dinner, things, things of that nature. The other two would go to go see their dad. They would come back from visitation Kind of hyped up. They would act out for a little bit until you know they got back into the routine because they would hear a lot of you know dad said this about you or that. You know they got back into the routine because they would hear a lot of you know well, dad said this about you or that you know this and that. And the kids I mean my youngest one was about five or six at the time, so this was still a pretty impactful formative years. You know for them, you know for them for them.

Speaker 2: 28:19

Uh, then about a couple years and into this, he met someone, remarried, moved out of state. We were both living in Georgia at the time and my family was in California. So once he moved, then I was able I moved back to California to have more family support for the two kids that I had. And also by that time my oldest one had left the house, he had started college, so he was in a dorm. So I felt like that was probably the best timing for me to make my move with the other two. And again, not much of a relationship with the oldest one. That took many, many years before we could kind of reestablish that relationship. I remained. You know it's painful as a mother not to have a relationship with your child. It's pretty painful. I just was consistent. I would call weekly, leave a message, and you know that was it. Every now and then he would call because there would be something going on that he needed help with.

Speaker 2: 29:31

He wouldn't call his dad he was calling me and and then eventually, um it, it just all kind of changed and now we have we have a great relationship. It took a long time. Uh, the basic thing anybody, I would say, going through parental alienation. My heart goes out to you. Number one and number two be consistent. Even if they don't pick up the phone and talk to you, just leave a message, send the birthday card, send the Christmas card, but be consistent. It's that consistency that kids rely on. And then the other two my son had a lot of anger issues and especially would act up after he would have a visit with his dad, and he actually went down the illegal drug route for a while and this was he ended up dropping out of high school, which pained me. And when he turned 18, and I had taken him to rehab a couple of times and not try to get him cleaned up and stuff Well, he relapsed. He had turned 18 and I kicked him out. He was doing drugs in front of his sister.

Speaker 2: 31:03

And I said I'm not allowing this. He said you, you, you got to go Hardest thing I ever had to do, but the best thing I ever did, and probably within six months, probably even less than that. There was an incident where he was. He called me, he was down at the sheriff's department and this was like two in the morning. I thought he had gotten arrested. But there was another incident that he was there at the time and and I happened to talk to the sheriff and I said is there any way you can put him in a holding cell for 24 hours? For him, I just need him to get to rock bottom, because he was high at the time. And the sheriff said he's high right now. He goes. I would love to be able to help you to do that, but the laws have changed and we can no longer do do that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2: 31:55

I said okay, so I took him home with me that night. I said it's like by this time it's like four in the morning and I said I gotta get to work, but you just crash on the couch and I will take you to like a ABC facility or something like that the next morning. So I'm getting ready for work. I happen to look out through the window at the patio and he's sitting on the patio and I said, are you okay? And he starts sobbing and he said Mom, all of this time I have been mad at you when it should have been dad. But I know, and that shocked him that when I said I know, and he and he decided then to enlist in the, in the army, get his act together, he went back, got a diploma, found the way to to do that and went into the army, served for 12 and a half years, including a year in afghanistan, and I couldn't be more proud.

Speaker 2: 33:05

And then my daughter uh, she probably had, because she was the youngest, probably had the least impact, but what I did find was, you know, she could be kind of clingy at clingy and needy, you know, especially for me. And when she got ready to go to college, she went to, she stayed in a dorm, got into a dorm and stuff best thing, best thing ever, you know, for her to get, just to get some of that independence. And she's now married, and happily married, actually three years, their three year anniversary today and has a almost five and a half month old little boy. So she's doing well little boy.

Speaker 1: 33:53

So she's doing well. Yeah, you know, and it's a remarkable, you know, journey with your children. You know how they, you know, especially with your son turning his life around and you know, and also you know the journey with you, know how things have evolved with your, with your children and, um, you know, I'm really, you know, touched by how your son was able to say, you know how he felt, finally, after all these years, and what was it like for you to hear what your husband would say, ex, would say about you to your kids, and when they would come and be that messenger and tell you. What was that like for you to hear that these things were being said about you.

Speaker 2: 34:37

Oh, it makes you angry. Um, it really, you know, and and it's hard, because you're trying to heal yourself, you know, and get over the some of the you know, rebuild your self esteem, and then to hear it, and it's kind of hard. Sometimes it would trigger me a little bit more than than others, but I always, always did my best and never bad mouth him and then just kind of just say you know, let him do all, let him be. That's your dad, this is me. I'm not going to do that. Let's try to focus on something else that's more positive, more healthy. We're living our lives, we're going to be happy, we're going to survive, we're going to be fine, right.

Speaker 2: 35:27

But it takes a while. I mean, you know, now there's every now and then something is sad and it's like, okay, whatever, you know. And now I can just shr sad and it's like okay, whatever. And now I can just shrug it off like eh, whatever. After all, this time it's like if he's still angry at me. How sad, how sad. It's been a long time, over 25 years.

Speaker 1: 35:55

It's long past the time to get over it. I have other things to do, I don't have time for the anger and the hate, and you've actually showed through your actions you don't have time for the anger and the hate. So you went back to school. What did you get?

Speaker 2: 36:13

your degree in In organizational leadership. By that time I was in the homeowners association industry where I was there for like 30 years. So you know, from managing communities to getting into supervision and stuff of managing other managers and helping empower them to manage the communities and stuff that they were assigned. So it's a challenging industry. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. But you know it treated me really well for raising two kids and you know I recently retired, earlier this year so I could focus more on writing and raising awareness.

Speaker 1: 36:56

And in your writing. Now you have written a book, torch by a Gaslighter, which you fictionalized, which tells your story more.

Speaker 2: 37:06

Yes, and yes it's based on true events, but those true events are what would happen to me those true events are what would happen to me.

Speaker 1: 37:17

Okay, and I'm really looking forward to reading it. I have it on my list of things to read, so and I'm actually, once I'm done reading it, I think I'm going to share this book with other people and share it. I actually have some clients right now who are going through what you're going through, or went through. Rather um, one's in the process now and um, so I'm definitely excited to share it with them. Uh, and also, you started now a company from broken to boldness. Can you tell us a little bit about when that formed, uh, how you got into that, doing that, and, um, what it's been like for you to have this up and running?

Speaker 2: 37:58

Well, after I, or as I was writing Torched I just call it Torched for short. You know the publisher was talking about, you know, being able to promote your book and stuff and that's when I thought about, well, come up with a company name. And we were Googling, you know, noodling all kinds of things, and I came up with that and broke into boldness because it's like at one point in time I was broken and now I've come pretty much full circle and I'm pretty bold and coming out and speaking about it and raising awareness. And I'm pretty bold in coming out and speaking about it and raising awareness. So I started that and so, you know, 50% of the book sale proceeds are being donated to the Nicole Sincouli Foundation.

Speaker 2: 38:44

Nicole lost her life young woman, early 20s, from her boyfriend who domestic violence killed her with a claw hammer, stuck her like 13 times, horrible, horrible story. I knew the parents I went to actually college with with her father, so, uh, so it's like partnering with that foundation and you know my website has some some uh resources and stuff, including the national domestic violenceestic Violence Awareness Hotline information like that. Again, it's just about raising awareness and continuing to, you know, to do that and looking for ways to tell my story.

Speaker 1: 39:31

And what are your, you know, and I want to first and foremost, commend you on all the work you've done and thank you for all the awareness that you're putting out there and for sharing your vulnerabilities and for sharing your story. I feel like the more we hold in, you know, the more that it keeps us back, but I feel like once we let our stories out, it's like we become like metamorphed into butterflies and can fly. The way I look at it, Like you know, by holding it in, you stay that caterpillar right.

Speaker 1: 40:09

And then letting it out. Letting it out, you metamorph into a butterfly and what you've been through and the fact that you're so brave to share with us today. I just can't thank you enough for all of this and, honestly, it's an honor to have you on here to share this with me.

Speaker 2: 40:31

You're so sweet. Thank you so much. I think the biggest thing that holds us back is fear. Yes, it is, and I know I was afraid, you know, of even getting it out there and start talking about it. And I was afraid, you know, when I before, right before I released the book, and it's like what are people going to think? You know what? How are they going to look at me? How are they? It's like how, how, why would a woman like that stay in a situation for so long? All of these thoughts kept going into my head.

Speaker 2: 41:07

And when I started talking about it, you know, for the pre-sales, I had more people come up to me, including in the, in my HOA industry at the time. They're saying thank you, this happened to me, thank you for sharing your story. And the fear lifted, you know, and even the fear of leaving the marriage, you know, all the many years ago. So many women and there's men that stay in these kind of it happens to men too. I don't want to just say it's women, but I can only speak from a woman's perspective. We stay in these relationships because we're afraid. We're afraid of more abuse, we're afraid we're not going to be able to make it, cause it takes, like women, seven times before they can, you know, on average to actually leave these relationships because there's so much fear and and, and it's all I can say is make the decision.

Speaker 2: 42:10

If you need help cause you're afraid there's it's more physical violence and stuff involved, contact the national domestic violence awareness outline. They can help you. Um, but get out, because I'm telling you you can rebuild your life and cross that bridge and you're gonna you're gonna be so glad you did. Your kids will thank you, yes, yeah, and I think what also makes it going to be so glad you did.

Speaker 1: 42:36

Your kids will thank you. Yes, yeah, and I think what also makes it going to your point you were saying it takes a person seven times on average to leave. I think what makes it especially tricky, though, is the fact that most violence the peak of you know most people, when they get killed by a domestic violent ab the resources when they're disclosing they're going to leave to be protected. Is there a way that perhaps maybe policemen could come to the house or some security could be sent, or is there, is there something like that going on for people right now? For people?

Speaker 2: 43:31

right now? Yes, I believe so, and I would also check with your local city and county. You know, even like the courthouse, you know there could be resources right there in your local city and county that can help provide that information A lot of times if it's going to be that violent. You know they kind of caution you not to tell anybody your plans, because people can find out. They can search your phone, they can search your Internet activity. There's ways you can do this more safely Go to local shelters, Contact the local shelter. Go there, contact the local shelter. Uh, go there, they can.

Speaker 1: 44:13

They can help protect you and get the, the police or the sheriff, the local law enforcement and stuff to help to help yes, yes, and I think that's, you know, a valuable resource for people to know, because a lot of people right now may be in these situations and the holidays surely don't make it easy at all no, I was just going to say, in fact, a lot.

Speaker 2: 44:40

There's more. The incidence of domestic abuse increased during the holidays.

Speaker 1: 44:47

Yes, you think about all those expectations that people want met during the holidays too, all those expectations that people want met during the holidays too. And if you're already in a controlled setting, it only just amplifies even that much higher.

Speaker 2: 45:00

Yeah, especially if there's any kind of money concerns. You know people, that you know financials. All that stress can put a trigger on someone exploding and you know controlling a situation and more victims.

Speaker 1: 45:20

So what would be your piece of advice to people going through this now? What would be your biggest piece of advice to people trying to, you know, who've just left a relationship that was abusive, who just are trying to rebuild their lives, people who are going through it and are scared to leave Like? What kind of advice pieces of like advice or pieces of empowerment or suggestions can you give?

Speaker 2: 45:48

Well for women who have just left these relationships. Don't give up hope. There is help out there. There's resources, a lot more resources than when I did it 25 years ago. So reach out. If you need to get professional help, get professional help there's, you know, your family, your friends. Just look for those resources Again, the local shelters and stuff can help also help. If you're in the middle of a situation and you think that I can't do this anymore again, reach out, maybe to the local shelters or the domestic violence hotline shelters or the domestic violence hotline and ask them to help and give you the guidance that you need to protect yourself and your children so that you can safely leave.

Speaker 1: 46:48

And um Debra, where can people find you if they want to reach out to you for support, for any kind of, you know, just information, or Sure, probably the best way is my website, wwwwereopentwo, and that's eoholdnesscom.

Speaker 2: 47:12

My email address is on there. Boldnesscom, my email address is on there. You know my book. You can purchase my book on the website as well. It's also available on Amazon. So, yes, that's probably the best way to reach out. Contact me, I'm here to help.

Speaker 1: 47:27

I'm here to help.

Speaker 2: 47:29

I'm here to listen. I'm here to help. I'm here to help. I'm here to listen.

Speaker 1: 47:34

You know you're doing such amazing work and I want to thank you. You know, and I just remember when you did your podcast pitch about how you went from waking up in the unit you know you were doing that podcast pitch for people on stage, on the main stage at creative con. I remember just really really getting drawn into your story at that point because it was just so powerful and the way you delivered it and the way that you expressed yourself and the things you have shared at creative con. Um, I think you know your story is going to help so many people. You've already been making so much impact.

Speaker 1: 48:19

You've done an amazing job, being persistent and, you know, building bonds with your children and even though, yes, the road was not easy at all for you, but you really have shown and I think your story is a true testament that anybody can and will rebuild their life with the right determination, with the right courage, with the right motivation and somebody as bold as you are. You are nowhere close to even being broken and, if anything, being broken, if you look at that too, that's also a beautiful thing in and of itself in some ways, you know, if we look at that, because when you're broken. This is what allows the light to come into you, right? Yes, yeah, broken glass reflects a lot of light, if we like that yeah, yeah, you're, you're right.

Speaker 2: 49:13

Yeah, and and I'm not ashamed of saying that that I was broken. I'm not again. Um, I was recently reading something and I kind of wrote a little bit of a little blog about it. But you know, life happens for you, not to you.

Speaker 1: 49:30

Yes, yes, you know, and I feel like that is such an amazing testament to what life really is, because everything that happens to us depending on our outlook, it can we don't have answers to, right? Nobody ever asks to get abused, nobody ever asked to get you know, be living in war zones, for example, or be brought up in situations where you know you. You're not even sure if stepping outside the house could be your last time stepping outside the house, right? Where? Because the neighborhood is so volatile, certain things just don't have the answers to. But you know, I think. But you show us today on here that you put that power in you and the magic happens when you decide to give that power to yourself instead of giving it away Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 50:37

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 50:49

Well, Debra. Thank you so so much for being here and everyone. This wraps season one of On the Spectrum with Sonia and it's an auspicious episode and I oh my God I'll try not to cry when I do this. I ended it. This is episode number 28. 28 is a special number for me because my birthday is August 28th.

Speaker 1: 51:10

I got the privilege of wrapping up season one of On the Spectrum with Sonia with a fabulous guest that I met at Creative Con this past February and I'm going to see her again. Funny enough, the people who published her book for motivation champs with Dominic Domansky, who is simply the best publisher on earth. He's actually publishing my book dropped in a maze, which is going to be launched February 21st. Deborah will be there, guys. So another reason for you guys to come and support this cause and come to the book launch and purchase the book, Um, and also purchase Deborah Griffith's book torch by a gas lighter torch for short. You can get it on Amazon. I promise you you will read it and it will be so helpful, Maybe, if not for yourself, for somebody you love or you know, whether it be a colleague, a friend, a cousin, an aunt, your mom, who knows who? It can help, but it will help many people out there and um many people out there. And also, you know, just be on the lookout, because Deborah is up to great things and she is an unstoppable force. And she has taught us today the biggest thing right, Right, Listen to your gut. You have the power in you. You are not the the problem. When you're in an abusive relationship where somebody is constantly belittling you, controlling you, the problem is not you, it's the other person. And the other person get as nasty as they may, but you are not the opinion of them. So, with that being said, we're concluding this.

Speaker 1: 53:09

Thank you all for tuning in. I will be resuming on the spectrum with Sonia after the new year. All for tuning in. I will be resuming on the spectrum with Sonia after the new year, and so stay tuned for great, great guests and more great content to come. Thank you all for those who've been supporting me. Thank you to season one. Guests have been on here, especially Deborah. You are special today because you are my last guest of season one, 28, episode 28. My birthday is August 28th Auspicious number here. So, yes, Thank you all.