On the Spectrum with Sonia Krishna Chand
Welcome to On the Spectrum with Sonia Krishna Chand, the ultimate podcast dedicated to unraveling the beauty, challenges, and triumphs of living with autism and embracing neurodiversity. Hosted by Sonia Krishna Chand—renowned autism advocate, speaker, and author of the transformative new book Dropped In The Maze—this podcast is your go-to source for meaningful conversations about the spectrum of life.
Each week, Sonia brings her deep expertise and personal passion to the microphone, diving into critical topics that matter to families, educators, and allies alike. From understanding the nuances of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) to exploring the broader neurodiverse landscape, the podcast is a treasure trove of insights, strategies, and heartfelt stories.
Why Listen to On the Spectrum?
- Parenting & Family Dynamics: Raising a child on the autism spectrum comes with unique joys and challenges. Sonia shares practical parenting strategies, tips for fostering connection, and advice on navigating developmental milestones, education systems, and healthcare resources.
- Relationships & Social Connection: Autism doesn’t just shape individual lives—it profoundly impacts relationships. Episodes explore topics like building meaningful connections, navigating romantic relationships, and fostering social skills in neurodiverse individuals.
- Education & Advocacy: Learn how to effectively advocate for your child or loved one in schools, workplaces, or the community. Sonia will explore Individualized Education Programs (IEPs), inclusive learning environments, and overcoming systemic barriers.
- Mental Health & Self-Identity: The intersection of autism and mental health is vital yet often overlooked. Sonia tackles issues like anxiety, sensory processing challenges, and the journey to self-acceptance and empowerment for individuals on the spectrum.
- Celebrating Strengths: Neurodiversity is about valuing every brain's unique wiring. The podcast highlights stories of resilience, innovation, and creativity from people on the spectrum, proving that differences can be extraordinary strengths.
Meet Sonia Krishna Chand
Sonia Krishna Chand is a passionate voice in the autism community, dedicated to fostering understanding and inclusion. As the author of Dropped In The Maze, Sonia weaves powerful storytelling with expert insights to help readers navigate the complexities of neurodiverse living. Her podcast extends that mission, providing an audio space where listeners can feel seen, heard, and inspired.
Who Should Tune In?
This podcast is for anyone touched by autism—parents, caregivers, educators, clinicians, and neurodiverse individuals themselves. Whether you’re just starting your journey or are looking for deeper understanding, On the Spectrum with Sonia Krishna Chand delivers the tools, perspectives, and hope you need.
About Dropped In The Maze
Sonia’s newest book, Dropped In The Maze, is an eye-opening exploration of neurodiverse experiences. Through raw storytelling and actionable insights, it illuminates the twists and turns of life on the spectrum and serves as a guide for creating meaningful connections and inclusive environments.
Join the Conversation
Together, let’s celebrate the beauty of diversity and build a world where every voice matters. Listen to On the Spectrum with Sonia Krishna Chand on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform today.
On the Spectrum with Sonia Krishna Chand
Getting UP with Brian P. Swift
Just imagine you are living your life and going about your day to only have the course of your whole life change in a flash. This is what happened to Brian P. Swift back on December 26, 1979. Brian was just a gregarious 17 year old off school on winter break. He just finished celebrating Christmas with his family, and he was looking forward to spending the rest of the winter break relaxing and having some fun. He called his buddies to go play some football, and there was a group of guys who got together in a nearby field. This was where Brain received a tackle that changed the complete trajectory of his life....it was a tackle where he had issues getting up from the tackle. Brian couldn't move, nor could he feel. Brian suffered from c6 quadriplegia.
As much as Brian was down, he refused to be out. Brian had surgery and went to the Chicago Rehabilitation Center where statistics were grim about the quality of life for those with quadriplegia. It would be easy for anyone to get depressed and feel discouraged seeing the grim outlook that was given for people with quadriplegia. However, Brian used those statistics to motivate him further to achieve a quality of life he could be proud of. Brian went from being a student who didn't consider himself a studious person to going on to law school. Brian left the legal field and went into sales where he won an award his first year for bringing in the most sales. Brian eventually became an author, business executive coach, speaker, and radio host of WJOL. Brian refused to let quadriplegia define him, but rather, he was going to define what quadriplegia was. He defied statistics, and he showed people that life doesn't have to be so grim if you have the mindset to not let it.
Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia, a podcast where we discuss autism, spectrum disorder, mental health challenges and anybody who's overcome any adversity in their life. That will provide people with connection, love, hope and inspiration in a world, especially that tries to leave us feeling disconnected. Just imagine now I want everybody to imagine this. Just imagine, okay, you go through your everyday life, your everyday routine, doing what you need to do to get through the day, going through. So you, whether it's getting up working out before work in the morning, whether it's, you know, going to school, whether it's getting up working out before work in the morning, whether it's, you know going to school, whether it's hitting a gym afterwards being, you know, doing your grocery runs or gas filling up your gas tank because of your commute to work, whatever it may be. But then just imagine now waking up where it all changes for you in a flash.
Speaker 1:Our guest today exactly had that kind of situation happen. He was just a 17-year-old playing, you know fun, gregarious outgoing guy, outgoing guy used to play cards, get together with friends, watch movies, go out, date all that. You know all that what a high school guy does. And he also was a jock played many sports and it was Christmas break, december of 1979. And it was the day after Christmas and sunshine is out, some snow on the ground. Weather was good enough to get together with a group of the guys go out and play some football. There was a group of 12 people and they were all playing football together and he got tackled. But unlike any tackle he's been through before, this is a tackle that monumentally changed his life.
Speaker 1:Here to discuss this is Brian P Swift. He is a coach, he is a lawyer. He is a coach, he is a lawyer, he has a radio show, wjol, out in Will County, he is a father, he is a husband and you know he also never let circumstances define him. Instead, he wanted to define his circumstances, and the circumstance we are talking about and the situation we're talking about is that tackle that he suffered that day, december 26, 1979, was one that left him with a C6 quadriplegic. That left him with a C6 quadriplegic. So, here to discuss all this, please, let's welcome Brian P Swift. Brian, thank you for being here today. Sonia, thank you very much for having me. No, thank you, thank you. So, going back in your life now, you wrote this book and I really recommend everybody read this. It's called Up. You talk about being dragged by your feet that day when you were playing with the group of the guys. Do you have any memory of the play-by-play in real time? What had actually?
Speaker 2:happened happened, circumstances, what landed you? I do and and actually it's so vivid because it wasn't a tough hit. Actually I got tackled from behind. So I remember a guy hanging on my leg and then another guy coming in and like kind of grabbing my waist. So the reality of it was there were times when in in athletic terms, you got lit up, I mean, somebody hit you so hard. You know, this wasn't one of those. This was like I got somebody grabbed one of my legs, somebody grabbed me around the waist and I just went down, um, so it wasn't one of those like wow hits.
Speaker 2:You know where you hear people go, oh, and you're wondering if the guy's going to get up and remember what happened. This was just gosh, it was so simple. Nobody fell on my head, nobody fell on my neck. I didn't hit my head, I didn't hit my neck. But you know, after everybody got off, um, and I went to try to get up, there was no getting up. So I was laying there and thought, okay, maybe it was what some people call stinger, where it's almost like a concussion to your spine and it takes a couple minutes for you to kind of recover from it, but I mean, after a minute I knew it was something worse than that, and I wasn't in pain at that time, I just couldn't feel anything. So, yeah, I shipped.
Speaker 2:A couple guys ran off to make phone calls Because there was no cell phones in those days. So they had to hop in their cars and we were only five minutes from the house. So it was get my parents call an ambulance. And, you know, none of us had an idea. I think we all feared the worst, which was I broke my C6 vertebrae and, you know, in a heartbeat became a quadriplegic became a quadriplegic and you had to have surgery where they took bone out of your hip to fuse your neck.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's when they had confirmed that it was quadriplegic, exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly Because of the nature of the break and anything above the C level, which is C1 through C7, you're quadriplegic, means you're paralyzed from the neck down. What they don't know is, once the swelling goes down, how much you'll regain. But what they do know is a C2 will be able to move, you know, if the best case scenario is, you know, say, a c5 should be able to get some arm movement back, maybe some wrist movement, no hands, blah, blah, blah. C6 will get this back, a c7 will get this back. And you're kind of like statistically um labeled, which I get, they have to kind of give you an understanding of what could be that scenario.
Speaker 2:And they're pretty back then they were pretty upfront with kind of saying you probably aren't going to walk, but there's always that miracle chance. And you know this is now, don't forget, this is 1979. It was a long time ago. So, yeah, you were let known right away. And then, after the surgery, they put a halo brace on you which is what you see, where it comes way down on your chest, way down and back, and then four screws get screwed into your skull to keep everything from moving.
Speaker 1:Right and you used to talk about this is when, now, after the surgery, that's when you felt the pain in your neck.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Like. It wasn't when I got hurt. It wasn't even like the day after the surgery. It was like and that could have been because of the medication they give you, you know what I mean, you're kind of doped up and whatnot. So it was several days later and then, after about a week of being in the hospital, I was lucky enough to go to RIC, which is now the Shirley Reinability Lab, which was a premier spinal cord injury facility in its time and hard to get into. I was blessed to get into it and that's where rehab starts and unfortunately, that's also when, you know, the pain really started to kick in.
Speaker 1:And you spent your time at the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago, what it was known back then, now known as Cheryl Ryan, but back then and you spent, you took a lot of classes. Now, from my understanding, you took occupational therapy, you had physical therapy, and this is where you were learning to kind of use your hands, again, trying to move your arms, because you had discussed, you know, after your injury you were only able to move your arms four inches at best, side to side Right, and so what was that process like? To be in the Rehabilitation Institute and go through the process of everything?
Speaker 2:Well, you know what? This may sound odd, but it's a safe place because you're in there with lots of similar people or worse. There are also some people that are in better situations, but you're all kind of in the same situation. You're surrounded by specialists, so it's a very safe place and you're kind of trying to get some normalcy into your life, which is tough for the first month because you know it's about okay. Is your bladder going to work? Are your bowels going to work? A lot of those things don't work. You lose use of your diaphragm. You cannot. You only have like 40% lung usage. So even talking like we are now, I would have to stop and take breaths like every sentence, like really force that breath because your diaphragm is paralyzed.
Speaker 1:So you're really learning just how to deal with your injury and hoping you regain some use and hoping you regain some use, and it seemed to me that, even though, too, from my understanding of what you wrote in Up, that Rehabilitation Center was going by a lot of what was driven by statistics, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So now we're talking 1980. And we're. You know the average cost to take care of somebody with quadriplegia would have been $1.35 million average cost. There was an 88% of people never getting married, staying single. There was no statistics of anybody with quadriplegia getting married or having kids, much, let alone and I think the statistics of like what, 24.3 or something around that range, right of persona people getting a job. And you discussed that. You know and I know for you that was like also an uphill battle to even want to do more in your rehabbing, such as walking on parallel bars, going swimming in the therapeutic pool. So tell me, like what was driving you? You know you wanted to keep going for more. So what do you feel was like that driving force? You're like, let me keep doing this, let me push past this.
Speaker 2:You know, I think there's several things. I think one thing was my faith, and it wasn't that I hoped I would walk. I always kept that in the back of my mind, but it was just give me the strength and the wisdom to deal with this. And, as my mom would say, who was my faith? And drove? All that was? I never sat around trying to figure out why. As my mom would say, you know, things happen for a reason. We don't always know what it is, and even if we did, it doesn't change anything. So I really grabbed onto that and said you're right, you know you're right. So now, what can I do to go forward? How do I get back up? You know that's the whole book. You know getting up is the key to life. Right, I mean, everybody's going to get knocked down, but getting up is the key to life and moving forward.
Speaker 2:And then it was my dad who was this just like try and think of the way to describe him. He was this man that had absolutely no tolerance for being told what can and can't be done for his kids, and he really drove. That you know. Okay, you know how much are people. You know, when I was lifting weights, which were just these five pound weights. At one point you know he'd point out look at that, look at that guy over there, he's got two sets on. You know, look at that guy over there, he's lifting a lot more than you. You know, look at that guy over there, he's lifting a lot more than you. And so for me it was um, wanting to show him I can do more and be more.
Speaker 2:But that all came after a conversation, a one-way conversation with my dad, and that conversation was in January, the middle of January, and he came up to visit me and he took his coat off, sat down and after about 10 minutes he went over and got his coat. And my guess was and I don't remember the conversation, but my guess was I was probably not in the best spirits, I was probably a little salty, why I was turning 18 at the end of the month and this was not how I had planned to spend my 18th birthday. Right, I mean, 18 is that was that age of even more freedom and adulthood. I'm spending mine sitting there, not able to feed myself, not, you know, peeing into a tube hooked up to. You know all the stuff, not being able to do much, not to what I had planned.
Speaker 2:He came over to the side of the table where I was sitting. He looked down and said you know, if I ever come up here again and you're not smiling, I'll turn around and leave and won't come up again. He said and these are I mean verbatim, almost it is your responsibility to keep this family up. He said it is your responsibility to keep this family happy and to keep this family going. Said if you are smiling, we will all be okay. If you're up, we will all be okay, but it is your responsibility to stay smiling and to keep this family happy. Took his coat off, sat down, had lunch. We chatted Don't remember what. Nothing ever was said about it.
Speaker 1:And when you reflect back on that conversation, how did that make you feel to know that your father put that responsibility in your hands and said that it was up to you to keep the family going and keep the smile and to keep a positive?
Speaker 2:upward attitude. You know, in that sarcastic tone I was thinking, yeah, sure, is there anything else I could do? You know what I mean. You know what else can I do for you guys? But that lasted about a second or two. I really didn't think about it until probably that night, when I was probably more, you know in my room alone thinking and reliving the conversation and thinking he's right, he's right, he's 100% right, he's right, he's a hundred percent right. That that you know.
Speaker 2:I didn't like to be around some of the patients because they were cranky, they were depressing, they were they, they were just downers and even thinking of my friendships, like we all had this fun, spirited way of moving forward, laughing, enjoying life, and if I was going to take this accident, like it wasn't going to be me that broke up my family and it wasn't going to be me that became that person that I saw a lot around the rehab. That, you know, just bitter, salty. Life's too short and people don't believe this, but I've never prayed or asked God to help me walk. I've asked him to give me the wisdom and strength to deal whatever life throws at me. It's all I've asked him for and he has blessed me with that and I thank him every day, on a good day, I thank him On a bad day. I thank him because I've been given this ability to just keep moving forward mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically, to just keep moving forward.
Speaker 2:And that's what I base a lot of my coaching, my executive coaching, even business coaching, on is how do we move forward? Something's going to happen, right. And then the question I ask people is now what I was thinking about now what I got in an accident? Now what I got a flat tire, now what Life's about figuring out solutions? It's about now what yeah, you broke your leg, now what? Now you broke your neck. Now what you got divorced, now what.
Speaker 1:Now, what's the best way to move forward in a healthy fashion? You had to cope with and you talking about moving forward in the best way. What did?
Speaker 2:you find was your best way to move forward. Well, I, you know I probably would have went into the trades If I didn't get hurt. I come from a very blue collar family background. A lot of my dad's friends had great, successful families and enjoyed life that were in the trades. Well, I was going into the trades, now, right. So it was like I am not going to spend my time dragging my parents down taking care of me my whole life. So what's the natural course? You know they're like well, people need to get educations. Okay. So finished up high school. I had enough credits. I finished up high school the day I got home after four months in the rehab on a Friday. That Monday I went back to high school for three weeks to graduate.
Speaker 2:After I graduated three weeks, it was one day of summer, one week of summer and then I started junior college and I got picked up by the bus and I got driven to college and the first day I think my mom went with me just to see if I could push around and find, you know, make sure I knew where the rooms were. And I just started that journey. I knew it was my success was going to be through my faith and getting an education. That's how I was going to beat those statistics. And I had a girlfriend that stayed with me after I got hurt, and so I kept looking at you know, I kept looking at what.
Speaker 2:Now, what can I do Now? What can I do Now? What can I do Now? What can I do? I'm tired. I worked out hard, but what else can I do? You know, it's been a long day. It's the first time I pushed that much up at school. I got home, you eat. Now what can I do? Should I go out into the garage and work out? Yeah, you know, you God, you really pushed yourself hard today. Yeah, that's what I need to do. I do. I have anything left? I don't know. Let's go figure it out.
Speaker 1:Let's go find out. And for you I know that um so you were doing high school still, while you were in the rehab.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they had you go to certain classes high school classes and I think it was your basic classes. I know I had a math class high school classes and I think it was your basic classes. I know I had a math class, an English class, maybe another one, so outside of OT and PT, and then strength training you had I had two high school classes and when you went back to school, how did people receive you coming back?
Speaker 2:You know, I mean, obviously I had a pretty decent group of friends and they were all encouraging in there and I think they were, you know, like how do we treat you and how do we talk about you. But it didn't take long for them to realize it was the same old sarcastic Swifty that they knew for all the years. It was, you know, I joked about stuff. I mean I, you know I would make them feel bad. You know they'd say something. I'd be like, oh, I can't believe you said that in front of me. And then you know, they'd be like, oh, and I'd be looking, going you're a meathead, you know they don't bother me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it seems like you had pretty positive reception um people are being very um empathic, um so, and I also understand like you also went through your stages of grief, you know, with the injury, and in that, did you ever have any resentment towards the guy that attacked you, I mean that tackled you? Rather, did you have any resentment towards?
Speaker 2:No, no, I mean I. I I played the sport so long I've tackled guys and hurt their knees. I've tackled guys and and given them concussions. It's part of the game. And no, they didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 2:So I was so focused on moving forward that I didn't care, like that didn't matter, I didn't have. You know, this negativity is it will rob you of energy, of hope, of faith, of I didn't have time for that and I don't think I dealt like I never had that. I never went into a rabbit hole with my injury. I didn't have time to. I stayed so darn busy that I didn't allow myself to really fall into a dark hole with my injury. And I mean just to give you an idea, I mean, the household I lived in. There was no sitting in your bedroom. I mean growing up, you couldn't even shut your bedroom door. We had no TVs in the bedroom. We had no radio. The bedroom was a place to sleep. You were out with family or you were out with guests.
Speaker 2:I mean, and to give you a further idea of my dad's mindset, probably four or five months after I got home from the hospital, I was in the kitchen with my mother and I think I was being sarcastic with her and I know it was hot and quads don't deal with heat well, because we don't sweat. My dad had come in the front door and he must have heard something I said and just he took it in a different context, I think, than what was said, because my mom was even kind of surprised. He said it and, I think, explained to him no, he wasn't, that's not what he was kind of, you know. But he walked through the kitchen and said you know, if you're looking for sympathy, you could find it in the dictionary between shit and syphilis. And then he kept walking and went out to the family room, turned on the TV and sat down. I mean, you know you weren't getting sympathy in my house.
Speaker 2:I had plenty of love and I had plenty of empathy, but dad wasn't a sympathetic dude and I never expected it from him. I knew he loved me and I knew he felt for me, knowing what I was going through, but he would never show it why that generation didn't, and it's a sign of weakness. I mean, what is the best thing I've done for my three kids? I get up every day and I went to work and I came home with a smile. I woke up with a smile and I came home after working eight, 10 hours and changed clothes and drove them to their sports or played catch with them. The best thing you could do for people around you is live by example and show people what you're made of. That's how you build resilience, that's how you build pride, that's how you build character. That's how you build respect.
Speaker 1:That's what I was going to do and so a lot of this was, too, you know, so a lot of it seems rooted too in your upbringing of there was nowhere to go but forward, and that was ingrained in you young. And so when it came time to test that in yourself which, when people are faced with any kind of adversity, that's what they're, you know, kind of pushed to do, in what they're, you know, kind of pushed to do in one way, shape or form Right, when it came time to do that, you had a basis in some ways that you were able to tap into and be like okay, this is the only place I'm going to go is upward, right, there's no absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean, don't forget, I came from the generation where you learned how to swim when your dad threw you in the deep end. I mean, don't forget, I came from the generation where you learned how to swim when your dad threw you in the deep end. I mean that was the way life was right. I mean, you know, you got thrown in the deep end and it's like swim, you know and I don't mean that just figuratively, I mean that's the way a lot of us learn how to swim. You know you go to the beach, your dad would throw you off the end of the pier swim. You know you go to the beach, your dad would throw you off the end of the pier. Not that you were a great swimmer, but you know he was. Like this is how you learn to swim, right, you? You get neck deep. Which way do you want to go? Um, and it just. It was a great way to grow up, though, because like there was no, like it was black or white, and it was either swim or sink.
Speaker 1:Um, it just the way it was. You figured it out. They put you in circumstances where you just figured it out. You grew up, and even I grew up to some extent growing up in the 80s and 90s. Here to how kids are growing up now you talk about certain things you see being lost in translation. What do you find is the biggest difference nowadays? Lack of cope?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't believe they know how to cope. I don't believe they know how to solve a problem, solve. I don't know how they find any peace and joy because everything's been handed to them. I shouldn't say everything. A lot of stuff has been handed to them and we do it under the guise of well, they play sports. Sports can take up a lot of time. Well, he's in choir, well, she's in band, and, trust me, I know how much time those things take. Sure, they take too much time because it robs families from family time. But my kids did all that and I still held them accountable to do things that cut the lawn. I mean my kids. They've used every power tool imaginable. They've cut down 40-foot trees. They've cut the lawn since they've all been in their early teens. This empowers them to feel good about themselves. It empowers them to feel confident.
Speaker 2:You don't build the qualities today by handing people everything I don't know. You know they're not in the present anymore, the kids today, and I think there's a huge sense of entitlement. You know that we didn't have. You probably didn't see it. You probably can tell the difference in your generation to now and not that we're. You know, I'm much older than you but I agree with you. You came probably from more my style of our parents versus the style today. You were just empowered. You didn't go to your parents and say you were bored. God, if I went to my dad and said I was bored, he'd hand me some tools and say go cut the grass, go paint the garage. There was no can I go do. It just was different, and it was different in a good way. I think there was more family time. I grew up with my grandparents. I had to help them out. They lived three houses away. It just built and in doing you build confidence and you build a lot of great characteristics. I think a lot of that's missing.
Speaker 1:And that's a very insightful view that you have, and because you are very observant and one of the things that you know, you have said that the injury had led you to was being more observant, like going and observing football practice at the park, going and seeing things and so going to, you know, I know you started coaching actually when you were in college and you talk about a very important person in your life, sister Dennis, I believe yes, and she actually was a very instrumental driving force for you in deciding career path and education and moving forward.
Speaker 1:So you went to college. Now you had the original plan before injury of being either like a Piper or like Trisha, growing up in the tray, you know, because you also described yourself as not a school person.
Speaker 2:I'm not. I was never viewed as I mean. I never viewed myself as smart and I know I never took school serious enough. I was first generation college. I mean, you know my, my grandparents went to grammar school, I know they I don't even know if they finished. My parents, same thing, I mean Same thing, I mean. So we were first generation college, let alone having now to have confidence that I'm smart enough, and that's probably one area I didn't. But you know what? I worked hard. I finished junior college in two years, got my associate degree, started my four year degree at St Xavier University and two years later graduated.
Speaker 2:And the Sister Dennis part of it was, you know, my senior year going what do you want to do? You know I was a criminal justice and business major. And she's like well, I'm going to, you know. And I was like I'm not totally sure she goes. Well, you know what, you're going to go to law school. And I was like, yeah, that's funny, sister, I'm not. You know, I'm not that guy, I'm not that like, I'm not that guy. And she goes no, you're going to go to law school, come to my office, you know. And she was this I don't know, five foot seven, you know, 90 pound wet nun that weren't, you know, had the habit and just like, floated through the place and she was well-known, she was a staple of that college university campus and she said I want you to see me after school.
Speaker 2:You went to Sister Dennis's office and I went in there and she's like, well, this is what we're going to do. And it was not even an ask, almost it was like this is what you're going to do. Okay, the LSAT, which is the law school entrance exam, is going to be in. You know, it's offered this time and this time. Well, this time you should, you're going to take it this time. That gives you time to take a course. Here's the information on the prep course. You know, I went home and it was like, uh, um, sister Dennis said I should go to law school and I think even my parents were like, yeah, that's funny, that's a good one, that's a good one, brian, you know. So I was like, no, this is what she wants. And you know, after a while I started saying why not me?
Speaker 1:You know, after a while I started saying why not me?
Speaker 2:Why not me? I took the LSAT. I didn't do great on it. I took it again, did much better, and I got into three different law schools and I was off to DePaul College of Law and three and a half years later I graduated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I remember you talking about you. Later I graduated yeah, and I remember you talking about you. Know your law school experience, you know, and you know having a study partner that really helped you in grad school.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:How to study, because it's. You know, when you go to law school, it's not your simple regurgitation, right, you read and regurgitate material. It's a completely different way that you go to law school. It's not your simple regurgitation, right, you read and regurgitate material. It's a completely different way that you have to think. And you know, I actually remember the fact pattern that you gave an example of and talking about, like somebody was driving 25 miles an hour in a 25 mile hour speed zone, a little nine-year-old goes, chases after a ball and doesn't really pay attention to the road and the person has to swerve and then another guy who's speeding hits the car and then knocks into a pole that was defective and then just a cold causal chain oh my gosh yeah I remember reading that I oh my God, this is bringing back like memories because I did law school too and it was totally I was just thinking off the bat top of my head okay, product liability here, negligence, negligence.
Speaker 1:I was thinking what possible I could think of and it's tough. It's tough and I can totally empathize and I think you know a lot of people, especially those who went to law school, can empathize with you when they, you know, when they, when you talk about that struggle of you know having to, you know, have all this reading and you know having to memorize things or especially the different laws and how things are applied in different, maybe key court cases. You know.
Speaker 2:And I think I did more reading in one semester of law school than probably two years of junior college. I mean you know the amount of reading you do. I mean it's insane, it's absolutely insane.
Speaker 1:But one thing I found interesting, though you talk about your third year elective and so in college you were a criminal justice and business major. You talk about taking CrimPro your last year of college and you were not that interested in it. So I'm a little bit curious to know what what happened.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what you know. Negotiations I wanted to add something to my resume besides went to three years of law school. So negotiations was a part of was an extracurricular thing that you couldn't do and basically it was like, you know, a mock negotiation. You got a set of facts and I was like, oh dude, you know one of my other friends I go, have you done anything? Now, the guy who helped me through law school, my good friend, he was in law review. So this dude was smart, crazy, at a level that I've never seen before. But I had another friend who was kind of like me. It was way smarter.
Speaker 2:But we're, like, you know, thinking now you're thinking of graduating, where are you going to apply for? What are you going to do? Have you done anything extracurricular? And I'm like, heck, no, you know, I took every ounce of energy just to get through law school. We're like, let's do this negotiation thing. Oh man, today's the last day for signups. Just sign us up, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:Right, you know, at least we could say we did it and we went into it and it, trust me, once we got, we got, we were able to get into the competition and it was an inter-school competition and you had three sets of negotiations that you did in a law. You did it actually in a, in a legal setting, so you were in a court-like setting, and you negotiated with two other people and I'll even I remember the first time we did it. We were representing nurses, the other people were representing the union, and so we did it, and you don't know how well you do, because after like two days they just announced you know the top three people, top three teams. So you know it was, you know team. You know I remember you know it was team three, team two, and we ended up winning the DePaul Law School negotiation competition, which meant we went on to regionals. So we went on to regionals, held in this beautiful hotel, and we had to negotiate against teams like Northwestern and and, and, uh, university of Illinois and and so it was all around. So it was you know Notre Dame and all you know like 16 premier law schools.
Speaker 2:So we went on to that and we were like, oh, this is awesome, we get to put this down on a resume, right. So we went and again him and I just clicked. We worked. Well, you know we go in there and you know I've got my briefcase that's been beat up because it's fallen off my lap 400 times. I'm wearing the same suit I probably wore senior year, you know. Or maybe I got a new suit for graduation. You know these guys are coming in and you know designer three-piece suits $70 ties I probably got my $13 tie that I got from God knows where.
Speaker 2:But we work well together and I remember being at the end of the two-day competition, sitting there with the professor because he was all pretty psyched, and sitting there when they read the results. We're in a huge, beautiful, ornate room and they read the results and third place was whatever it was. It was something a you know law school of, you know high old law school and I I remember looking at my partner going, oh, like dang, if we would have just gotten third place, like that would have been cool, you know, because we felt we'd done pretty well. And then second place was, you know, uh, whatever, notre dame, you know, and they were like you know, and they were like, oh, you know, like, all right, let's get a drink. You know, like, because we just figured, okay, we're hoping for second or third would be kind of cool.
Speaker 2:I'll never forget it the way that I said it was and, believe it or not, that the regional negotiation champions are from DePaul college of law, brian and Elvada, brian Swift and Elva I'm trying to remember how to pronounce his name Elvado Sanchez. We didn't even like catch it, like cause we had started to. There was a buyer next to, so we had gone up to the bar to get a drink and and like I don't even remember hearing it right away, and then we look at each other and we were like did they just say our names? Well, the, the, the professor's coming up to us, my, my wife's coming up to us, his wife like oh my God, and I do. You know what? The first thing I said to the professor I guess this gets me my A. So it was one of, so I, it was my only class I got an A in in law school.
Speaker 2:I'm not ashamed to say that because I worked extremely hard, you know, and he laughed and we went on to regional competition and it was probably one of the proudest moments of my life because we worked real hard for it and it just shows you like we didn't have the expectations to win. What a shame, you know, we worked hard. But we just didn't have those expectations and I don't know, maybe that helped us, maybe that kept us loose, I don't know. But here we are now and our story gets bigger because we're off to nationals in Philadelphia. So yeah, it's a great, great story. Sorry to drag it on.
Speaker 1:No, no, I remember reading that and I just felt so happy and so proud of you. Thank you, I have caught in. One theme that I've caught so far in the theme of your book was whatever you saw as a challenge was also another opportunity for you, right, absolutely Whatever you put in your mind, you just went for it, you manifested it and you went for it right. So it was like you had this, because you even wrote this in your book I was determined to get an A before I graduate law school. Right, you did it. You know you.
Speaker 1:You know you talk about, you know, wanting to do better in law school. You did better in law school, right, your first semester, with the grades being what they were to, pulling them up and getting a better GPA, you know. So, everything that you've done, you know, it seems like you know. It started, you know, with that mindset and mentality of I am going to do this, I want to do this, I'm going to this, I'm going to, you know, absolutely. You know, and I just feel like you know. I have this one quick question I've been dying to ask, though.
Speaker 1:Okay, ask away so you, okay, I'm gonna sound like the biggest nerd right now, but well, I am a nerd, I don't care. Okay, yeah, I'm brown after all. Okay, okay, that's a funny joke for everybody out there. All right, um, you took criminal justice, did crim pro. When you took it, did it remind fruit of the poisonous tree search and seizure, like learning, basically, cop life basically, even though I think the cases now would be outdated with some of the ways that some of the cases, especially when it pertains to certain kinds of substances that people are getting.
Speaker 1:Sure, that's not applicable in today's day. That's not applicable in today's day, but, um, you know, like the whole idea of you know, just like, even like surveillance, what's a search? All that Did? It did any of like? Maybe you know what you learned in your earlier days. Come back for you what was that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, it was a lot of what I had done in college and it was basic because, like you said, it was less about the rule of the law Don't get me wrong, they talked about it but it was more about the situations. Yes, right, I mean it was more situational and that for me was way easier to remember some of that stuff. The situations, what is probable cause? I mean I don't know if that's really changed, I mean to a degree. I'm sure things have changed to some degrees, I could say. But you know what is a reasonable search and seizure, what you know, what is in plain view, what constitutes, you know? So everything was, it was situational and I was able, and those situations stuck with me.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and for all those listeners who don't maybe necessarily understand some of the legal language here, fruit of the poisonous tree refers to when a cop seizes things into evidence that is based off an illegal search and the seizure therefore is unlawful. Because the search and seizure, because of the way that it was unlawful from the get-go, yes, uh, plain view exception if you have, let's say, weapons that are open in a? Um state where that's illegal, and if a cop can see it, um, in plain view, um, they don't need a search warrant at that point because they can see it um. So, like an automobile, for example, that's best way to put it. That's how I remembered it. Um, you know probable cause, you know reasonable suspicion if you were doing something that you know is gives rise to criminal activity, right?
Speaker 1:exactly that, um, you know that stuff miranda and messiah rights. Miranda rights that's before when you are getting your rights read to you. Messiah rights is after you've been accused.
Speaker 1:So, yep, this is what I remember of that, that's how you're right remember, because I liked it so much I took it twice in law school. That means I failed it the first time. Everybody, okay, proud moments, all right, but yes, yeah, so I mean that's so. Did you so when you were doing your majors? So you went into a firm after law school, you went to you, you got into a firm where you were doing criminal appeals criminal law and personal injury criminal law and personal injury.
Speaker 1:You were doing court appeals. Um how long did you work in the legal field before you switch? Because I know that you had switched into sales at one point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I went, you know, probably two years.
Speaker 1:Okay, and what was the deciding point that you were like you know what this is maybe not necessarily my jam, you know and what of it you know. And and when you reflect back on this too, you know, I know, like the sister dentist really kind of instilled in you, hey, come to law school, do this. When you reflect back, was there something perhaps that you may have were thinking about, maybe dabbling into, but didn't pursue because you admire, you respected sister dentist so much and you respected how she was trying to guide you. You just went for it.
Speaker 2:you respected how she was trying to guide you, you just went for it. Yeah, I mean I always wanted to be part of a big corporation and help run it, so that was always in my mind from a business standpoint. Plus, you know, I'll tell you. You know, remembering the moment I opened the acceptance letter and seeing I don't think I've ever seen tears come out of my dad's eyes but twice in my life, three times and just seeing how proud him and my mom were, I mean I was going. I mean I was going to law school. It was a done deal. So about two, you know what, two years into it, I wasn't, it wasn't my jam and there were some other things. What, two years into it, I wasn't, it wasn't my jam and there were some other things, but I took my talents and said, I know I could do a lot of other things.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm an asset, you know, and I tried to get into a training program and run training. But they're like, everybody starts in sales. So I went into sales and I killed it. I mean, I was rookie of the year. I had, you know, in my first five years I had exceeded expectations. Four out of the five went on trips and I mean, life was good, I was rocking and rolling and that led me to, you know, promotions into training, running training, developing training programs, which led me to promotions into running teams. You know bigger teams and you know, then that led me to promotions of running. You know divisions and kind of what I'd always thought about, you know. I mean, before I left corporate, I was on the 27th floor of the Aeon building. You know, right on Michigan Avenue, my office overlooked the lake. What else can you ask for? I'm a dude in a wheelchair, that's not smart. And I'm sitting on the 27th floor with a corner office.
Speaker 1:You refer to yourself as not smart a couple times, so I want to know how do you define smart? Because intelligence is very subjective too.
Speaker 1:So I want to know how to define smart, because you called yourself not smart a couple times now, and the therapist in me, because I left law too and I went and became a therapist. You know, given you know just my life circumstances, what I've been through in my life and being on the autism spectrum, I felt like that would be a great place for me to make impact. But you, you know, and one of the things we learned is intelligence. There's two types right. So there's crystallized intelligence, right, that you born with. There's that amount you're born with, and then there's that fluid intelligence, intelligence you develop along the way. I want to know for you how are you defining smart?
Speaker 2:Well, I didn't have that built-in intelligence where, like you just got good grades and you didn't have to work crazy hard and everything I and you didn't have to work crazy hard and everything I, everything you know, I had to work crazy. Like I was a C student and my mindset was C's, get degrees, which is a horrible, horrible way to look at things, and I would not share that with my kids by any stretch, because I wanted them to work hard. And if work hard men, you gotta see I'm good with that. But I know I didn't work hard. Um, so I just guess I never viewed myself as being like that, like that, um, like that law school smart like that. You know, like I said, my friend was in law review. Um, that was a different kind of smart to me, which I was not.
Speaker 2:But I knew that I could outwork anybody. I knew that when push came to shove I could do enough. So now you've got what's better to be really smart or to have this will and grit mindset? Well, the ultimate answer is both, but would be both right, and very few people have both. I had that will and grit mindset that most people will never, ever, ever be able to keep up with you cannot. You'll back in there that you could not keep up with me studying, working, thinking, whatnot. So I was, I guess I always maybe a different kind of smart, and I knew that after law school. I realized, okay, you're smarter than you thought and you can accomplish anything you set your mind to, regardless of your circumstance.
Speaker 1:So you know, and that's why I wanted to just challenge you on that a little bit about that use of not smart, because everybody has intelligence, but in different ways.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I feel like you know what. Even you know. I know you gave this example. You know you could get good. You know you're not one of those people who are able to get good grades and not really have to like study or do a lot of work, but truth of the matter is a lot of these people who are smart, right that you think are not doing it. They're probably. You know, you'll be surprised how many people are reading when nobody's watching.
Speaker 2:Right, no, I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know there's they're probably doing this when no one is watching, cause I remember people used to brag about this a lot when I was younger and I talked to a family friend about this and she said you know what, sonia, these people, I bet you this, I can bet any money to you right now they're reading something when no one is watching them, right, like, so I mean, she's like, don't buy into that story if they're bragging about this, because a lot of times it's not even the case, right, and so you know, and I feel like this is kind of weird, but you know, but you know, and your, your intelligence. The thing is, you know, and one thing that is a defining moment for you is how you know. You had things in you all along right, and all of this grit, all of the mentality you had, the strength, you had the perseverance, the will to push forward, all of this was in you.
Speaker 2:The will to push forward. All of this was in you. You develop it to the level like I guess it's like a great sculpture, they say, if somebody who is a great sculptor, the artwork, the David that comes out, was in that chunk of marble. It's chipping away these pieces on the outside that reveal it. And chipping it away means you know getting outside your comfort zone. It means testing your limits. It means you know dealing with the fear factor and going beyond it. It means pushing yourself. That's all chipping away to discover what's really down in sight. Most people don't do that. They don't have to because, let's face it, our human nature is to run from pain and hard circumstances. I am the one meathead that run to pain and tough circumstances because it has given me this divine ability to crush it, go through it, go over it, go around it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and it's you know, and I also feel like for you. Anytime that there is a tough circumstance, you're like okay, another challenge, let's go.
Speaker 2:Right, like you know, lace up the yeah, lace up the boots, put on the gloves. Let's see what we got.
Speaker 1:And you know so. After law school, after you got out, you know you were working, you were studying for the bar. I know that the bar exam was quite difficult for everyone. I also will join you in this and say I did not pass it the first time I took it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I know you were studying again for it, and it was at that time you ended up getting married.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You moved into a house that you had kind of like a fixer upper home.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And so you get married, and then you have three children you've adopted when from?
Speaker 2:So my oldest son was adopted from the east side of Chicago Okay, southeast side. My next child is my daughter, sydney. She was adopted from China, and then my youngest son was adopted from Guatemala.
Speaker 1:And what would you say has been like a defining family memory for you, or like just one memory that like, just really stands out for you, just to remind you of your purpose and to remind you of your journey and to remind you of all of your strengths.
Speaker 2:I have so many of those and they all revolve around family. That's all about family. One of my mantras is faith, family and friends, and you know that has carried me because my faith has blessed me and I've tried to drive that into my children that that is the number one thing you have. On a good day you thank God. On a bad day you thank them for what he's given you and family slash health. You know you have to work at it and nothing is easy. If it's easy, it won't last long.
Speaker 2:So you know, being able to take my family on vacation when I left corporate, one of my goals was to spend more time with my family. In four years I took my family, including my mom and dad. In four years I took my family, including my mom and dad, on four vacations my mom and dad on every one of them, you know to Florida, to South Carolina. We did a fishing vacation in Canada. My goal was I'm spending time with these people that have been so blessed to help me get to where I'm at that have been so blessed to help me get to where I'm at.
Speaker 1:You know, and it's like you know, it's also your way of just showing your gratitude, just showing your love. You know, it seems like that's like a love language for you too. Yes, that time spent, you know, taking your family on vacation as a way of showing time spent together, you know, to people who supported you all along. So, as we're wrapping this up here, brian, what is one piece of advice or encouragement you would give to people who may be in a rut in their life right now, maybe feeling down on themselves, maybe feeling disappointed about something or, you know, just maybe not in a good headspace, what is something you would tell somebody?
Speaker 2:You know, I believe everybody has a beautiful story inside of them that can unlock not just their ability to live a divine, inspired life, but help others and you can go from being a mess to being blessed if you set your mind to it. And that might mean a lot of little changes. Maybe it's nothing big, but you've got to want it and then you got to seek it out and you've got to surround yourself with those people that will help you on that journey, because nobody does it alone. So if going help means finding a dietician, go get that dietician. Invest in yourself. If you do not invest in yourself, your investments I mean would you invest any amount of money without understanding where it is and be checking on it? We don't do that with ourselves enough. You want to be successful, invest in yourself. Get a mentor, get a coach. If you want to lose weight, get a dietician. If you want to be inspired, surround yourself with five people that are inspirational. You are the sum of the five people you surround yourself with.
Speaker 1:And Brian, how can people find you number one if they wanted to reach out to you, and how can they get a copy of your book?
Speaker 2:Well, you could go, so find me first. I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn under Brian P Swift, and I'm on Instagram under the underscore quadfather, so you can find me on almost all social media. You can reach out to me at bswift62, b-s-w-i-f-t. 62 at comcastnet, and you can go to Amazon, barnes and Noble. And actually my one book that I wanted to write is now turned into publishing my ninth book about a year and a half ago.
Speaker 1:Excellent, excellent. And what drove you to write your story up? What got you to tell your story? What was that final breaking point that can help other people break out and write their own stories?
Speaker 2:So I wrote up. Getting Up is the Key to Life is the full name of the book, and I didn't write that to shine a light on me. I wrote that book to help not just people with disabilities but the caretakers, their parents, their brothers, their sisters. I wrote the book to help shine light on other people's situations and give them hope, and give them the opportunity to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that you can thrive despite whatever you're dealing with, and give them some steps, actionable steps, to hopefully help them get there.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you so much for your time today. Brian, everyone, brian P Swift, we absolutely are blown away by you, brian. I mean, you're the only Swift I will be a Swifty for, okay.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Not the musician but you. Thank you, I will be a Swifty for, and I think you know, anybody who has the chance to meet you has a chance to hear you speak. He will be speaking at Creative Con this February, this February, and when I heard him speak last February at CreativeCon, everybody was blown away. I've even heard people be like wow in the audience.
Speaker 1:He's just that good. So I'm going to be speaking at CreativeCon this February at the Intercontinental Hotel in Chicago. February 21st to the 23rd are the dates of it. Also, on February 21st will be my book launch at Creative Con, and so it's called Dropped in a Maze. It'll be coming out soon If you have not already. Please subscribe and like On the Spectrum with Sonia podcast, on the spectrum with Sonia podcast, um, and also tune in on W J O L a M for Brian Swift's um radio show, um and yes, and share with your family, your friends, review, rate, subscribe and, if you've enjoyed this episode, stay tuned for more episodes further to come. Thank you very much.