On the Spectrum with Sonia Krishna Chand

EndoDNA....Using Genetic Testing to Guide your Health

• Sonia Krishna Chand • Season 2 • Episode 36

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What if your DNA could guide you on how to better handle your health? What if genetic testing could guide you on how certain medications would work?  Len May, founder and CEO of EndoDNA, does just that: helps people navigate their health through genetic testing. 


The road to lead Len May to where he is today has been anything but easy. Len May was kicked out of his home when he was in his later teens for recreational use of cannabis. Len's parents strongly frowned upon his use of cannabis.Len discusses being prescribed medication for ADHD, but he reported the feelings of numbness while taking the medication, even though he was able to focus. Apart from noticing the difference in how different chemical substances interacted with how he was able to feel, Len May also paid keen attention to how his mother and grandmother would have bottles of pills and would consult with doctors about how different medications would interact with other things. Len resorted to couch surfing before finding a more stable place. He went to Temple University with a major in Physical Therapy, but he was an entrepreneur at heart. However, all of his education and personal experiences eventually all tied into Len May's interest into what he does today. 

Len May's entrepreneurial spirit led him to eventually start his business after first working with the start up of an alternative pharmaceutical company. What he observed while working at the alternative pharmaceutical company led Len May to start his own company in 2017: EndoDNA. 

The spirit of  EndoDNA is to help patients understand their unique health challenges and provides targeted solutions.  They are patented with the use of DNA testing to see how it affects the endocannabinoid system: the part responsible for regulating bodily functions. The study of the interplay with how a person's unique DNA affects the endocannabinoid system tells a whole story in and of itself. 

Ready to discover what your DNA reveals about your health? Visit endodna.com to learn more about genetic testing options or connect with Len May through his podcast "Everything is Personal" and his book "Making Cannabis Personal." Your path to optimal wellness might be hidden in your genetic code—isn't it time you unlocked its secrets?

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia, a podcast where we discuss autism spectrum mental health challenges and highlight any stories of anybody who's overcome any significant adversity to help the audience feeling hoped, encouraged, loved and connected, especially in a world that tries to disconnect us on a daily. Today we have a very special guest, len May, who is the CEO and founder of EndoDNA. He is here because of his own connections, in some ways, to people who have someone on the autism spectrum in his line of work, and he himself has overcome some adversity being kicked out of his house at 17 and being left to find his way and so today he's here to share his story. So let's please welcome Len Len. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, sonia, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

So, len, why don't you tell us a little bit about you, your upbringing, you know like, just walk us through a little bit. Where are you from?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I was born in Lithuania, which, when I was born, it was under the Soviet Union control. I was born, it was under the Soviet Union control and my family immigrated to the US when I was six and we settled in Philadelphia. So I came with my parents, and my mom's parents as well, and in the first year of being in the US my grandfather had a stroke and he proceeded to have multiple strokes and then a very large man 6'3", 300 pounds, something like that and then he started to become a shell of himself and lost this ability to walk, basically, and talk. And I would never forget my mom, my grandmother, sitting at the table with doctors, with bags of pills and constantly changing and saying you know, this interacts with this and this. So I always had this fear that you know the side effects of the medications were creating some of these conditions that he was, you know, suffering from. So I always kept that in the back of my mind and the kind of kid I was, I would sit in class and the teacher would call me. My brain would be elsewhere, so I would daydream and I got diagnosed with attention deficit disorder and put on prescription medication.

Speaker 2:

I can't say it didn't work. It depends on how you define work. So it did help me to focus, but it removed any sense of self. So there was no feeling. It was a numb kind of going through the motions. I really didn't like that.

Speaker 2:

And it was interesting because I was hanging out with some older kids before school and they asked me if I wanted to smoke a cigarette. I was like cool, I'm hanging out with the older kids before school and they asked me if I wanted to smoke a cigarette. I was like cool, I'm hanging out with the older kids, there's a cigarette. I never questioned why it was only one cigarette, but they ended up passing the cigarette to me and I took a drag. It didn't taste like the cigarette that I'm used to as I was dabbling in that and then took another one, maybe coughed, and they were laughing at me. I was like what? And they put cannabis in the cigarette.

Speaker 2:

So I consumed some cannabis, went back to class and I'm not advocating that everybody should do this under, maybe, physician supervision, but all the windows that are in my head narrowed and I could focus. So it became sort of my go-to medicine. I stopped taking all the prescription medication and, as you were mentioning Sonia, my parents would catch me and they were very anti-drugs, even though prescription medication were okay bags of them but plant medicine was not. So at some point they ended up calling the police on me, calling the cops trying to have me arrested and then kicking me out of the house and that sort of started my journey on to trying to find out health and wellness, what's working for me.

Speaker 2:

I got into the music business I was working in a place called Tower Records at the time and then working my way. Then finished high school, working my way through college and went to physical therapy school. I never worked as a physical therapist in my life, but I learned a lot about anatomy, physiology, what works, what doesn't work, and that's sort of my start in the corporate world, so to speak.

Speaker 1:

So tell us a little bit about now. So you get kicked out at 17, finally, because your parents just put their foot down and said get out of here, we're done. How did you in the meantime then cope? Like, where were you living? Like, did you have to find an arrangement? What was going on with that?

Speaker 2:

Great question. So the first few nights I actually I had $500. I had a car, it was my savings and I went to motel rooms so I would sleep on the top of the bed with my clothes because I didn't want to touch anything. There's motel rooms where you pay like $25 to stay in a motel room one of those. And then my girlfriend the girl I was seeing at the time she asked her parents if I could crash at their house. They let me stay for a little while, but then they said I have to go. So I would couch surf at different friends' houses.

Speaker 2:

And then my girlfriend's friend was going to Italy for a month and we ended up getting into her place because she was going to be gone for a month and staying there basically for a month. Then at some point my grandmother let me crash on her couch. So I did that. Then, when I got my job at Tower Records, she gave me the security deposit money to get my own apartment. I got my own apartment and live in a basement apartment where every single time it would rain, half it would flood. I'd call the office, they would come in, they would suck out the water, but it would still mold underneath all the carpet and I had every single kind of roadshow you can imagine. So it was interesting, but it was all I could afford at the time.

Speaker 1:

Power Records is such a famous record store. I remember in 2015, there was a whole movie made about it this Too Shall Pass where they had acclaimed musicians discuss, I think, from what I understood, of what the movie was, but it was just like. So what was it like to work then in a place where you know that was huge, and where was the tower records that you worked in?

Speaker 2:

in philadelphia, okay, so I mean it was the greatest job I ever had.

Speaker 2:

If you're a music person, tower records was the best record store yes, like that I can and I would shop there and I got became a cashier and when I got my job and then I was a music buyer. And one of the things that I think was unique to Tower Records that made it so interesting is they had different buyers for different stores in different regions that are local to that. So maybe the taste in Philadelphia was different than the taste in Los Angeles or somewhere in Alabama. So you could kind of sense what the local market was and that's what made it unique. I think the challenge with Tower Records is they were so not adapting technology and sort of had blinders on that.

Speaker 2:

The Napster and all the different things put them out of business because they invested People would come in to Tower Records and the exposure was amazing to all kinds of music. That's why I have music behind me. I have a huge record collection. I have a huge CD collection. I was getting paid $7 an hour but because I got promoted $7.50 an hour.

Speaker 2:

But because you have record label people that would say, hey, if you buy more of this we'll give you tickets to this show. So you get all these different perks of the job, you get music, you get concerts where you're still living, making very little money, but it was an incredible opportunity to learn a lot about music and when you're a music buyer you build these connections. But the thing that they invested in this people come in and hum, do you know the song? It goes blah, blah, blah, blah, and you have to know. So they invested in this machine called the Muse machine, which was basically you can search inventory by keywords. But they never invested in anything to do with technology streaming technology, the internet kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

So I think that really hurt them to any song you want at any time you want, and I think the records I mean. Yes, I think it's like one of those things now where it's like a timepiece from the past or like a luxury kind of collectible item.

Speaker 2:

I don't know, you can't replace vinyl. Though when vinyl was not popular, you can buy records 50 cents at different swap meets and flea markets. Now those same records are $20, $30. So vinyl is back. Vinyl is back in a big way. It's expensive and I think the kids are starting to find vinyl again because there's nothing they take in a record, like opening it up, looking at the liner notes. You can't do that with Spotify, with streaming, and it's a different experience.

Speaker 1:

I know it definitely is a different experience. I still remember having those as a kid, those vinyl records, and putting it on in the record player and dancing around my house to it. You know, like, you know, those things, it's definitely one of those. What I mean by like classic, right, I mean those things are just, you know. I think that definitely now, the way music is being out now, a lot is changing, even now with like AI and how that's also changing the landscape too, of music. But you know what I meant by timeless, you know, is that it's just, those are things that don't go away, right, like the vinyl, like the record, those nostalgic, the nostalgia of it too, too, that that's something that can't be replaced either sure yeah, so you were worked at tap, you were working at tower records.

Speaker 1:

You got a security deposit into a house that you lived in in the basement, but unfortunately with the rains and the flood, so that was never fun. Um, you were. So how long then you went? You said you went to college yeah, I went to company university.

Speaker 2:

I studied, you know my, my focus was physical therapy, but I I was an entrepreneur. So you know, I opened up a music company. After tower records uh closed, uh calledday Music and I was selling like hard to find CDs or like German only or Japan only prints. And my girlfriend at the time, who's now my ex-wife, he's like you have to get a real job. So I went to work for Price Waterhouse. I used to have really long hair, earrings. I had to put my hair in a ponytail, take out my earrings, put on the suit and tie and wear a mask. Basically that wasn't me for a while. Then I went to work for a venture capital company, went to work for another consulting company, did on-site, offshore consulting. Then I decided that I'm interested in real estate. So I left and got into real estate. I became a commercial real estate broker and I became the managing director of Keller Williams Commercial and moved to Los Angeles from Philadelphia and in the first year of living here or so separated, then got a divorce.

Speaker 2:

But I was sitting in a real estate office and these guys came, came in and they were looking to open up an alternative pharmacy. They were saying. So the person that was talking to them said, hey, can you talk to them? And it ended up that they wanted to open up a dispensary and this is 2009, 2010, under a SB 420. And so there was a medical law in California for cannabis. So I helped them. I asked them where is your paperwork? They didn't have anything and they offered me a partnership. So I became a partner in a dispensary in Orange County called Kush Kingdom.

Speaker 2:

We ended up opening up four more of those, but one of the things I started seeing was two people will consume the same chemical variety of phytocannabinoids and have a completely different experience. So in that I started, like my ADD kicked in where I had to hyper focus and I found a video by a gentleman named Kevin McKernan who genetically sequenced a plant. So, long story a little bit longer. I went and met with Kevin, started working with a company called Medicinal Genomics, where I would travel the country, get plant material from different growers, bring it to my lab, extract the DNA, sequence it, and we created the first genetic library of chemical varieties, called Canopedia with a K, and put it on the blockchain.

Speaker 2:

Now the parent company of medicinal genomics was called Cortagen Life Sciences and they did pharmacogenomics testing, so testing on how to see how different drugs affect individuals' bodies metabolism and then so my idea was we have plant genetics here, we have human genetics here. Let's bring those two together and create a personalized experience for people using, you know, their phytocannabinoids and they really didn't have an interest in it. They shut down the human side. So that's when we launched EndoDNA in 2017. And we launched EndoDNA in 2017.

Speaker 1:

So part of your work, then, is that you're studying, you do more of the genetics testing kind of work. Correct Is that you are looking at how certain things know, perhaps, like even supplements and vitamins also could affect a person, because not everybody is meant to take the same, correct?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's absolutely correct. So in the beginning, when we first started the endocannabinoid system test so we have a patent on the use of DNA to make recommendations associated with the endocannabinoid system so that is what we started in and what we did was we approached a company called Illumina. So Illumina created a custom chip for us. So we sequenced about 700,000 genetic biomarkers, which are called SNPs single nucleotide polymorphisms. It's HIPAA GDPR compliant. It's a genetic test with a swab. You swab the answer of your cheek, you register, you send that sample to our lab, you log into your portal, you get your results. So you're looking at conditions. And when we met with the FDA they said what is the purpose of your test? We said to help people either mitigate or avoid a possible adverse event. So once we sequence you, we provide you your genetic predispositions and what you can do about that. So the way that I try to explain it is sort of your DNA is your life's GPS, so it'll show you where your potholes are in your road, where you have, it'll show you where your potholes are in your road, where you have traffic jams, et cetera, so you can take action to be able to mitigate the expression or avoid those potholes and DNA is interesting because you have 50% for your mother, 50% for your father, obviously, and some of them are, if you think about, a bunch of on-off switches. Some of them are turned on, so like our hair color, our eye color, our skin color, things of that nature but other genes are dormant and our lifestyle gets to turn those switches on or off. So what kind of things affect that? Are nutrition, the nutrients, the food that we put into our bodies? They can actually control the epigenetic expression, turning on the switches. So also exposure to pesticides, heavy metals they can affect that. Also our own neurochemistry, so what we excrete, like our cortisol levels, our adrenaline levels, they can change the epigenetic expression.

Speaker 2:

So by looking at your genetic predisposition, creating a protocol or some sort of treatment plan that is specific to the individual, and then measuring how well that works, using biometric feedback, biomarkers of blood work, other things we can actually start using with AI, we can start using that to make better individual treatment plans for healthcare professionals. So they can say, all right, there's 100 people similar to Sonia that took this protocol and showed that it worked, it was efficacious. So this will be a suggestion for the healthcare professional to make a recommendation because you're absolutely right. Everybody metabolizes differently. Everybody can take different things. So when the doctor tells you take two of these and call me in the morning, well, why is it not four? Why is it not one? Why is it two? Because we metabolize things differently and there's a series of genes that are associated with that metabolism as well.

Speaker 1:

Have you noticed any trends with any of the results that you've gotten from people who've submitted their DNA samples, like what have you noticed to be perhaps common themes or any you know common trends that you've picked were able to pick up on?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I mean 99.9 percent of us are the same. It's a 0.1 percent that makes us different. And people that have certain genetic predispositions. Usually we put them in buckets, like people that have predispositions to stress and anxiety, and they don't deal with that stress, anxiety that gets triggered. Now, if they have a predisposition to something called bruxism, for instance, which is grinding your teeth or clenching your teeth, that gets expressed. So now their sleep cycle is challenged. So they can say we sleep for eight hours a night, but what is the quality of sleep? So if you start measuring your quality of sleep, they're on this hamster wheel. They're not getting their good delta theta sleep, so they're not getting their good delta theta sleep, so they're not getting their restful sleep. They're not getting the reset, so the agitation carries throughout the day and they're continuing their life, which definitely impacts other health conditions. So you can start putting people in these buckets based on, as you mentioned, those trends, but genetic predispositions to certain things they may or may not be doing.

Speaker 2:

Metabolism is an interesting thing too. We have a series of genes called cytochrome, p450, cyp450. Each one of those genes produces an enzyme that helps us metabolize something. So there's a specific one for gluten. There's a specific one for lactose. These are the genes that you may be aware of. So if you and I'm not talking about celiac disease we're not a diagnostic for diseases but if you have an irritation or something happens where it's inflammatory when you're consuming gluten, well, maybe your gluten sensitivity that you're predisposed to is getting turned on. So these are the things that we can actually see in your genetics and then create a treatment plan that's specific, so you can avoid those sharp corners for yourself so what?

Speaker 1:

so after you submit and you get this report of the gen, of the genetic testing that you've done, now do you send this to a person's health provider or do you send it to the person themselves? Like, how does that work if?

Speaker 2:

so. So our customer is a health care professional. So, to give you an example, we uh build a test for uh female hormone health, so it's called menopause biotype, and Dr Jennifer Berman, who's one of the top female sexual health doctors in the country, reached out to us and said look, I'm seeing a lot of patients and I have two things that are happening. Number one I'm seeing a lot of younger women that are starting to show perimenopause symptoms late 20s, early 30s. That may have something to do with the hormones that are in to show perimenopause symptoms late 20s, early 30s. That may have something to do with the hormones that are in their foods that they're ingesting.

Speaker 2:

And the other thing that I'm seeing is a lot of women are experiencing these adverse effects associated with menopause or perimenopause a lot of hot flash severity, weight gain, cognitive challenges, et cetera, osteoporosis predispositions or bone health.

Speaker 2:

Is there a way that we can get ahead of that and mitigate that in advance? So the way that we can do that is we can do the genetic test, show you what you're predisposed to, create a treatment plan that includes hormone optimization if you're a good candidate for that personally, supplementation, things of that nature and you can measure how well that works to mitigate the expression of some of those things like hot flash severity, as an example. So then we book on that experience and check to see if anything has been expressed and we can see that through methylation testing et cetera, or something like biological age, we can actually see that biological age reduces, based on a protocol that's been recommended for you and so, basically, so it's like all these, so you're getting this to the healthcare providers and then they're from there taking the recommendations that you're from the tests that you've conducted and then incorporating it into treatment plan for the patients.

Speaker 2:

So it's a very collaborative experience with the doctor and the patient because it becomes more personalized that way. So you're not just here take two of these, it's this is why you should take two, or this is why you should take one, and then we can see how it's working for the individual and the AI learns patterns and starts making those predictions. So I mean, we have a number of tests. That's just one of them, but doing your whole genome allows you to interact with your DNA. So now a healthcare professional can pull up and say show me all of Sonia's inflammatory markers, cross-reference them with any metabolic markers, see if there is a drug-to-drug interaction, contraindication between medications or supplements that you may be taking. So this becomes a very, very targeted, focused and personalized experience for your health and wellness.

Speaker 1:

I remember being in discussions or hearing about it where in my field because I'm a therapist mental health therapist you know for patients who are going, who are recommend or clients rather, who are getting recommended to go and see a psychiatrist to help with the biochemical aspect of their depression or their anxiety.

Speaker 1:

I remember you know discussions were being held about getting genetically a psychiatrist to help with the biochemical aspect of their depression or their anxiety. I remember you know discussions were being held about getting genetically, having them get genetically tested to see how they would interact with some of the medications that are typically prescribed for such conditions. And it's becoming a thing and I think that you know the. I think genetic testing and how your body works and will interact with substances, whether it's medicines, whether it's vitamins, whether it's your hormones, I think it's such a great and holistic way to also help, you know, deal with things and help a person navigate through whatever they may have coming up or whatever conditions they're facing. I think it's such a great and I think it's important. I think it's an important cornerstone to the health field at large.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and since you mentioned you know mental health, I have a quick story that just happened. Recently I have an associate friend who's a very successful business person, had some personal challenges, had some things that didn't go right, became depressed, may have had some predisposition to do, you know, depressive markers I didn't know that at the time and went to a psychopharmacologist and got prescribed an antidepressant and he was saying that he was driving in the Los Angeles area around the canyons and has taken his son to a soccer game with his wife and he goes. He was driving around the curves and he had this overwhelming desire to drive off the cliff and he goes. It was so visual, he could clearly see it and it made total sense to him and he was so scared he pulled over and his wife got out and said you okay? He said I'm not okay, I should not be driving.

Speaker 2:

And luckily he recognized that when he went back to the psychopharmacologist, did his pharmacogenomics test, realized that the drug that he was on was red, so it was the wrong drug for him. Based on that, in addition to that, he also had a gene for treatment-resistant depression resistant depression. So not only is the drug wrong, the drug may not work for him at all, but he's still got the side effects from the drug, which is suicidal thoughts. So how many psychopharmacologists actually do pharmacogenomics or genetic testing to see number one, if they have a candidate that this could work for, and look at the drugs that are maybe more efficacious or less efficacious from the individual so they don't suffer the side effects?

Speaker 1:

and those are the things that we can do to help apart from the affiliate, uh, that you knew who was a successful business person, that one that you had come to, that you know who had that unfortunate experience. You've mentioned before that you've also dealt with a lot of people who are on the autism spectrum and you've dealt with families and people who've a lot of people have come your way with that too. So can you tell us a little bit more about like what that experience was and working with that population?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I worked with a lot of doctors around the world that work with spectrum disorder and spectrum conditions, but I have a story that I just also was recently. I find it really fascinating. So a mom reached out. She has two kids that are on the spectrum. They're both in school and the schools are asking for the parents to remove the kids because they're extremely disruptive. One is even more disruptive than the other and the other copies, you know, outbursts all that. And she said the second thing that's happening is they don't sleep. They're having a really hard time with sleep. So she asked is there anything that we can do? So we did their genetic tests and this is, you know, under medical supervision. There is a phytocannabinoid solution for them, so including CBD, et cetera, and she recorded a testimonial for us and said a miracle happened. There's two things that are happening. Number one and what she's doing. She's taking the uh um like a soft gel and she's squeezing out the oil and putting into their juice or whatever, and they're consuming that. And she says there's two things that happen. First of all, the school called them and come in and said whatever you're doing with the kids goes, keep doing it. They've completely did a 180. They're attentive, they're not disruptive, they're paying attention in school, all that. The second thing she said we're getting 10 hours of sleep a night. So somehow some way this is happening. So they have a daytime and a nighttime protocol. The daytime is more to address some of the stress and anxiety and nighttime is a little more sedative. But they wake up without having brain fog and, like I said, she left us a very nice testimonial for that. So that's one example.

Speaker 2:

Another example is I was invited to speak in Brazil and I don't get a lot of interaction with customers, but here there was a line of people that were waiting to speak to me and this girl was in a wheelchair and she was smiling, but really I wasn't sure if she was verbal or not. And her mom came with her and she was saying that for years she had multiple conditions. Spectrum is just one of those, but she has multiple conditions nonverbal, but not only nonverbal, but no eye contact. Eyes were always elsewhere. She had very little communication with her family and she's after taking the genetic test and getting onto a protocol, and it was also phyto cannabinoid related as well.

Speaker 2:

She said tell you know. And she said in Portuguese she could verbalize. She had a smile on her face, still in the wheelchair, not a cure-all for anything, but she said thank you for allowing me to have a relationship with my child that I was unable to have before. So, whatever means of communication they found, now there's eye contact, there's expression on the face and there's, you know, she's become more verbal as well. So these are all the things that we see. You know that this is, this is helping a lot of you know families to create, you know, relationships with each other that they previously couldn't have.

Speaker 1:

That must have been very empowering to hear for you. You know, it seems like a lot of the work that you're doing right now is really paying off for many. Is there any one particular story that really stands out for you, Um, that you're like, oh my goodness, like this is how I know that I've really, that we're really on the right track here. We're really going at it. Is there anything that really kind of just touched at your heart?

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm going to read you something I I normally don't do this, but I want to see if I can pull this up. So I have a friend of mine who's a physician, and a very prominent physician. Her husband is a runner, he's running in the mornings, so he tripped and he fell and he hit his head. And this is the text. This is a text exchange that I got. This is what they said in the hospital Three areas of bleed, two contusions, one's frontal lobe and left occipital subarachnoid hemorrhage Not very responsive.

Speaker 2:

Occipital subarachnoid hemorrhage not very responsive, breathing on his own, can eat, knows me and himself, and that's all. So luckily, we already had the genetic test. We sent over a suggested protocol and this is the text exchange that I received after the fact, hi Len. So I've been administering the oil as directed. In 12 days, dan has made incredible improvements, so much so that he's going home on Wednesday to work with rehab as an outpatient. So that he's going home on Wednesday to work with rehab as an outpatient. People have marveled at his success. Thank you for your amazing gift, I think it saved a life with exclamation points.

Speaker 2:

So that's the reason why I do what I do and why I think a lot of people who are in the healthcare field, we're business people too. There's a business. We have to generate revenue. But at the end of the day, you have to connect to the why. And if you're so busy running your business, I'm busy running our business too. But you have to stop and pause and ask yourself, and these kind of stories and this kind of feedback resets you and reminds you of why you're doing this in the first place.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and the work that you're doing is absolutely incredible. Now you've used a couple words throughout the interview. Help me if I'm mispronouncing it.

Speaker 2:

Endocannabinoid.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, can you explain a little more what that is?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we all have an endocannabinoid system. So the endocannabinoid system was discovered in 1992 by Dr Rafael Misholam, an Israeli scientist passed away a year ago, and it's the primary regulatory system that we have. Its goal is to maintain balance, or what's called homeostasis in our bodies. And the way the endocannabinoid system works is it gets signals from the other systems, like your endocrine system, your immune system, sends that signal up the central nervous system like salmon swimming upstream to the brain, and then the brain makes a decision what neurochemicals endogenous that means we create them ourselves which neurochemicals to secrete to be able to get that system that's out of balance back in balance. The two endogenous endocannabinoids that we produce ourselves are called anandamide and 2-AG. So anandamide the word ananda means bliss in Sanskrit, so this is our bliss molecule or neurochemical that we secrete.

Speaker 2:

And what happens is when we have deficiencies in our own endogenous endocannabinoids, when we consume phytocannabinoids in the plant so cannabis they're in their decarboxylated form. What I mean by decarboxylated is the plant itself. When you pick cannabis from the plant, if you have delta-9-THC, thc is what gives you that euphoric, high feeling. When you heat it it has an acid molecule with it. When you heat it, the acid molecule drops off and it converts to Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol and we have receptors in our bodies as part of our endocannabinoid system. So we have CB1 receptors and CB2 receptors. Cb1 receptors are located mostly in our brain and central nervous system. Cb2 receptors are mostly located in our bodies, immune digestive system, etc. So when we consume Delta-9-THC it binds to your CB1 receptors and squirts anandamide.

Speaker 2:

Anandamide is that bliss molecule. So it's the one that we get when we're working out or runner's high or when we consume THC. And the other one we consume CBD cannabidiol. It has an affinity for the CB2 receptors, which are located in immune, digestive et cetera. So it helps to regulate or modulate our immunoresponse inflammatory response. So it helps to reduce inflammation as well. So the combination, the right combination of cannabinoids and also terpenes, which are the essential oils of the plants, the right combination. If you find that right, you know, secret sauce for the individual, what you are deficient in.

Speaker 1:

Then it can help to stimulate the production of your own endogenous endocannabinoids and help you get back to homeostasis or balance have you noticed any like when you talk about things like autism, like you'd mentioned earlier, the genetic testing that you have done for those people who come in and said we have somebody on the spectrum, they've gotten tested and then you came up with that blueprint for them? Have you noticed any kind of theme that runs along alongside with that endocannabinoid? Have you noticed anything that kind of just jumps out to you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we've noticed that there's a lot of patterns in the stress markers. So stress reactivity, things like PTSDd, things like slow rate of fear extinction. So trauma, uh, it seems to be more prevalent. Uh, it's not suppressed, uh, down, they have to deal under a duress situation. Trauma seems to come up and it becomes, you know, not just what you're dealing with in the moment, but it grabs that trauma Like I'll give you an example so I get hit by a car on a bicycle when I was nine years old.

Speaker 2:

That trauma I don't have a neurological condition, that trauma is in my subconscious, but under great duress it can pull up that memory and bring it to the surface. So I see a pattern on the stress markers, in addition to maybe sleep related markers, as I was mentioning before as well. Things like insomnia, things like bruxism, grinding, clenching your teeth, and the combination of those is an interesting profile. So if you can help restful sleep and if you can address those and address the stress levels, I think you're able to have a better experience in trying to address the expression of those. And the endocannabinoid system deficiencies are definitely a big part of that, because when you're not addressing your immunoresponses, when you're not addressing your immune responses. When you're not addressing your connection to your gut brain barrier through vagus nerve connection, when you're not addressing all those things, they can express themselves and become amplified. So yeah, definitely addressing some of those endocannabinoid deficiencies with phytocannabinoids has been helpful for individuals as well.

Speaker 1:

Have you also noticed, though, too, when you're doing your samples? Because yesterday I was listening to this lecture, and it was about the microbiota, and it was about that imbalance in the microbiota. So a lot of times, people on the spectrum have gut issues. There are three to four times more likely to have gut issues than somebody who's not on the spectrum, and have you noticed anything kind of pop out like that as well? Have you gotten to see some of that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. So you know we don't do a gut microbiome test but I've done several in myself and you can find, you know, different things in your gut microbiome. Like you know, I have an inflammatory response to bell peppers. Bell peppers are healthy. If I didn't know this, you know, I wouldn't know why I'm having this response to bell peppers. It's inflammatory.

Speaker 2:

But to give you an example of how it relates to the endocannabinoid system, let's say, sonia, you're walking across the street and a car comes out of nowhere, almost hits you. So now you're going to have this fight or flight response. So you have some neurochemicals that are pumped in your bloodstream. You have some adrenaline. You have some adrenaline. You have some dopamine, you have some norepinephrine, you have cortisol. All that's pumped in your bloodstream. Now when your brain realizes there's no line chasing the jungle, there's a reu.

Speaker 2:

But you have a genetic predisposition with a gene called FA fatty acid amide hydrolase. So that gene produces an enzyme that breaks down anandamide. So you are not producing as much anandamide as the average person, and a lot of people on the spectrum have this genetic predisposition as well. So if that's the case, your cortisol can stay longer in your bloodstream. And when it stays long in your bloodstream.

Speaker 2:

There's a couple of things that can happen. Number one, it can reduce your pH level, make you more acidic. Number two, it can create an overactive immunoresponse like a cytokine in a certain area. Usually it's in people's joints, ankles, knees, hips, neck, back, etc. And if you have predispositions to gut health issues like IBD etc. It can start moving to your gut health and trigger the epigenetic expression of that as well. It's not only the food as medicine, but also your neurochemicals can actually trigger the expression of those genetic predispositions to gut health issues. So, yeah, it's like putting pieces of the puzzle together, right, I'm missing this. So this is created by this as a cascading effect. So, yeah, absolutely, you can see certain patterns that you can address, and a lot of them have to do with the stress markers and how they're being expressed.

Speaker 1:

Right, because definitely you know people on the spectrum. I think their central nervous system tends to be a little bit more activated than those who are not. So, with that being said, you know, and doing the work you have done, using the results that you have, what have you noticed, like for the stress markers? What have you noticed to be themes, then, that people are you like kind of resorting to? Because there are things that you know, of course you know.

Speaker 1:

And for people who don't know what the microbiota is that refers to the bacteria in your system, what that means, you know, of course you know. And for people who don't know what the microbiota is that refers to the bacteria in your system, what that means, you know. And there are ways that you can activate, you know good, better gut health and you know, like they say, things like exercise, things like doing relaxation, deep breathing to kind of calm, calm you a little bit, what you know and just like using those things of movement in general to kind of just recalibrate it. So you know, and in terms of going into that stress and the stress markers, what are you noticing is now being one of the most common ways to treat this, apart from yeah, I think it's a lot of things that you said.

Speaker 2:

Number one it's mindfulness, like having a mindfulness practice. It's not easy for people that are on the spectrum to create a mindfulness practice, so you have to find what connects most to you. Some people like guided meditation. I do transcendental meditation. So whatever connects with you and it's very difficult with ADD to be able to do that as well. So whatever connects with you, but having a mindfulness practice is extremely important.

Speaker 2:

Breath work, whatever breath work that is connected with you. I've had many people on my show and there's a lot of different things, from like the Wim Hof to box breathing, to any other breathing technique that you can do. That actually helps to slow down your response to things. So breathwork, mindfulness, all that is slowing down the response, giving you that pause, having that, taking a beat. Also, as you said, nutrition.

Speaker 2:

Nutrition is extremely important. What the foods that you put in your body, what foods you know that connect with your body, supplementation, what you are lacking in. So if you have genetic predispositions to things like calcium deficiencies, iron deficiencies, magnesium, all these different things, well, you can get them from food, you can get them from supplements. But if people are changing their diets without realizing maybe they have an iron level deficiency and are becoming vegan. Well, how are you going to, you know, subsidize for that? So, understanding those things and creating protocols and meal plans and supplements, those are all really important as well and I think as important equally with food is exercise, you know movement yoga, weight training.

Speaker 2:

You know I love and I'm lucky I live in Los Angeles I love hiking. So going out to and it doesn't have to be anything intense going out in nature, taking a walk, allowing you know, breathing in the clean air, allowing to listen to those things, it clears your conscious thinking all the time. Stress allows you to have a clean vessel for information to flow through you. So find that flow state. I think that's really important as well.

Speaker 1:

And have you ever done one of those testing after like? Is there a way for people to see how like things may have been changed? Or using epigenetics? Let's say that you do a primary genetic testing and then recommendations are made. People have done it. Have you gotten another? Have you ever done a follow-up test to see any changes?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. One of the ways that we can look at that is biological age, so looking at methylation groups, so whether it's an addition or subtraction to a methyl group which means that there's an epigenetic expression. So like, for instance, you get a baseline biological age. So I'm 52, biologically 47. My goal is to be at 40 and maybe lower than that. So I have my genome, I have my treatment plan, I have my baseline biological age. Now I can come back in six months, take a blood draw or saliva and see if my biological age has changed.

Speaker 1:

And that is the epigenetic expression biological age has changed and that is the epigenetic expression. Well, it's all very interesting. It's so interesting to see how our genetics play such a big role in many things that I think a lot of people don't think about A lot of times when they go to the doctor or they go to a nutritionist, or when they start going for vitamins and supplements. A lot of people may not, you know, when they start going for vitamins and supplements, right, a lot of people may not be thinking how's this really going to interact with me? But you know now.

Speaker 1:

I think this is giving a new perspective on, you know, ways that we can better incorporate things into our body. So in in user, user, like different, like making sure we're even, we're even that much more mindful about breath, work and exercise and all that Like. I mean most of us already are very fit and active, but you know just even that much more now. So you know, I want to thank you for your time today and, len, if people want to reach out to you and want to perhaps contact you for genetic testing and or contact you to see how you can be of service or help them in any way, how can people find you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so our website's, endodnacom, all the different social platforms. I'm Len May, len May DNA on Instagram, len May everywhere else. I also, you mentioned, like our customer is a healthcare professional, but if somebody wants to do a one on one who's a patient, I do have Len May coaching, which I will go through and go over your DNA results and give you some suggestions and work with healthcare professionals to be able to, you know, provide a personalized protocol. So those are all the different ways you can. And then I have a podcast called everything is personal. You can get that anywhere. And I have a book called making cannabis personal. You can get an Amazon as well.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you for all who've tuned in to this episode. If you like this, please remember to rate, review, subscribe and share with your friends, your family. I also have a book that got released in February called Dropped in a Maze, and it's about growing up on the autism spectrum and I share valuable lessons I've learned along the way, both pre and post. Diagnosis. I share the social and emotional challenges pre and post diagnosis and I give valuable tips and tricks and tools for people to benefit from and, whether you're on the spectrum or not, I do discuss a lot of things relatable to the human experience. They can be found on Amazon, online on Barnes, Noble, Strandbooks, Goodreads and, if you like this, remember just stay tuned for further episodes of On the Spectrum with Sonia. Thank you all for tuning in.