On the Spectrum Empowerment Stories with Sonia Krishna Chand: Autism, Neurodivergence, and Mental Health

From Masking to Leading: Navigating the World as a Neurodivergent Woman

• Sonia Krishna Chand • Season 2 • Episode 41

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What if neurodivergence isn't just something to be accommodated, but a powerful gift that can transform leadership? Rita Ramakrishnan, a person with Autism Spectrum and ADHD, found strengths behind her diagnosis, and she used it to excel in executive leadership. 

Amongst the strengths Rita found was her remarkable hunger for knowledge that stemmed with her voracious appetite of curiosity. Rita, unlike others who would make assumptions based off what they feel other people are thinking or feeling through social cues, doesn't make such assumptions and is not shy about asking others the questions she feels need to be asked. Rita is giving back to others, especially women who are neurodivergent by helping them succeed in the workplace by providing them the tools needed to set them up for success.

Currently pursuing a master's degree focused on neurodivergent leadership at the University of Pennsylvania, Rita represents the vanguard of a movement that's transforming how we think about cognitive diversity in the workplace. Connect with her at www.iksana.com to discover how embracing neurodivergence as a gift might unlock possibilities you never imagined.

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia podcast, a podcast where we discuss autism, mental health challenges and highlight inspirational stories of anybody who's overcome any adversity and can leave our audience feeling encouraged, can leave our audience feeling encouraged and inspired, hopeful and loved and, most importantly, feel more connected in a world that continuously tries to keep us disconnected With us. Today we have a very special guest, rita Ramakrishnan. She is based out of New York City and Toronto. She goes back and forth between the two and she has a specialty in helping neurodivergent women, especially be in their keep in leadership positions. She herself is diagnosed with ADHD and autism spectrum and she's here to share her story about her journey to diagnosis and how she used her diagnosis as a way to help give back to others and help other women, especially who are neurodivergent. So, without further ado, let's please welcome Rita to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2:

Rita, thank you so much for having me. It's a real honor to be here Well thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, it's an honor for me to have you here today. So, rita, tell us a little bit about your journey, about your. You know just like what was it like for you to kind of hone in on you know, just like what was it like for you to kind of hone in on, you know neurodivergence, and what was, what's your relationship to it.

Speaker 2:

I think you know my story is probably not too dissimilar for a lot of, particularly women right now in these days. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was in university and it was one of those diagnoses that once it was labeled, once we had a name for it, it sort of retroactively made everything make sense, right.

Speaker 2:

So all of those parts, all of those conversations with teachers. She's always distracted. Is she bored in my class Like this, feels disrespectful, all of these little sort of things, behaviors that were associated with either laziness or inattention or boredom or whatnot. They had a place right. There's a rationality and I think the most important part is it was a recognition that I wasn't alone and that there were options to me. So that was sort of my first exploration.

Speaker 2:

I came from a fairly conservative Indian household, so it's not something that was necessarily discussed or explored that much within the context of my family, but as I started educating myself, I started being able to educate my family as well along the way. So, hey, these are things that you don't understand about me. This is a way for you to understand this about me. Hey, these are things that you don't understand about me. This is a way for you to understand this about me. And in doing so, I also built taxonomy to educate the people around me at work, my friends, things like that. And then several years later I would actually just say quite a bit later, more recently in the past several years I was also diagnosed as being on the spectrum. So very sort of similar moment in time where I was working with a psychiatrist and we were sort of talking about some of the challenges that I was having in the workplace, at home in general, some of my patterns of behavior, and she said, you know, wait, wait, wait, like let's actually talk a little bit about this because there are some similarities here to other cases. But you know, the diagnostic criteria for what we assume as autism or autism spectrum disorder is constantly expanding and we know more about it now than we did before and actually a lot of these things are consistent with that diagnostic criteria. So let's talk a little bit about it.

Speaker 2:

Now, the thing about ASD is, you know, in pathologizing there's not a lot of treatment options.

Speaker 2:

It's not like you can take a pill and solve the challenges that are coming before you.

Speaker 2:

But again, it's a great way, it's a great label, to start understanding what this means, the community that you're part of, and actually start to connect the dots on what this could mean for you.

Speaker 2:

And because there are other people that are having similar challenges, it gives you a community in which to co-create solutions together and to evaluate what's working for other people and not. So that's what really kicked off my journey was my own diagnoses, but as an executive coach, as someone that was working, you know, in the people leadership space, for me it was also about acknowledging, you know, the challenges. I made it up to the executive tier and I felt like I had to work, you know, five to 10 times harder in some cases to succeed at that level, and I knew that wasn't just my story and so that sort of sparked my interest in shifting my coaching intent and focusing more on this hidden generation of women, of leaders who are getting diagnosed now, and helping them not just make sense of what this means for them but find ways to harness their strengths, the gifts that come with your neurodivergence, while also addressing the challenges.

Speaker 1:

And you've done a really good job of really honing into that piece of you know taking what you've been through and how you know allowing it to also to give back and help other women. But I just want to go back and kind of backtrack a little bit here. So you were diagnosed when you were in college with ADHD and you grew up in a family where this stuff was not talked about much. Let me ask you this, though like when before you got the autism diagnosis as well, when you were growing up, did you notice that you felt maybe different from everybody else? What was it like for you going to school? Did you notice that you felt maybe different from everybody else? What was it like for you going to school? Where did you grow up? And tell me a little bit, what was that like for you to grow up and be in school and what was it like with friends and relationships and peers, teachers what was that like for you?

Speaker 2:

It was challenging. It was really hard. I grew up always feeling a little bit like an outsider, like a square peg in a round hole, and I wasn't necessarily sure about what that was related to. So my story is a little bit different. I was born in Zambia. My parents moved around a bit. I was born in Zambia, moved to Hong Kong when I was like one, one and a half, and then stayed when I was I don't know nine, and then we moved to Canada and that's where I did the majority of my schooling. And so in each of these places I kind of felt like an outsider, but I wondered whether it was something related to my culture. Do I just not understand the culture in which I'm seated or situated right now? Well, that didn't feel right. Sisters were doing just fine.

Speaker 2:

You know there were reactions people would have to various situations and stimuli and I didn't necessarily have the same reactions. I didn't cry when everyone thought you needed to cry. I didn't react or process information necessarily in the same ways. I wasn't paying attention to the same things. When we think about neurodivergence and it's something that I study now as part of my master's program but at a fundamental core it's the way in which you're processing inputs right. So inputs are coming in. As a neurodivergent person, the inputs that I'm paying attention to and sourcing are a little bit different. The way I process those things are a little bit different and the outputs are going to look a little bit different, and I think that's true for a lot of folks.

Speaker 2:

So I think for me I always felt a little bit like an outsider, and that was true in Hong Kong. When we moved to Canada, I wondered whether I was just too Asian, like maybe I grew up in Asia and some of these cultural norms are just things that I don't understand. And so you know, like many kids, many neurodivergent kids and many neurodivergent girls in particular I became the queen of masking and mirroring. So I would see what the popular girls would do and I would emulate those behaviors. I would see the conversations or the conversational styles, watched a lot of TV, I read a lot of books and I would like pull things that seemed to be successful for other people, and that's how I sort of crafted a character that seemed to fit in, and that was the way I could make friends, that was the way I could integrate within a community, but it always felt really false and inauthentic.

Speaker 1:

What was it like for you when you were doing all the masking? You know like you were able to emulate behaviors and conversations. You were able to pull things from whether you were observing people, whether it's from learning it through TV or books, from whether you are observing people, whether it's from learning it through TV or books. What was?

Speaker 2:

it like for you to mask, and how did people respond to you when you were masking? Well, it's, you know, it's one of those things where is validation right? So when people are responding positively to that, you're like, okay, this is who I need to be. Then this is, you know, this is a character that I'm putting on. You become a little actress, and this is a character that I'm putting on. You become a little actress and this is a character that I'm putting on and this is who I need to be in this situation in order to succeed or even just survive, right, children need community. Children need friends. Right, you need to socialize. That's part of your development.

Speaker 2:

And so I became a little chameleon, and I think the hardest part was sort of isolating what my identity was within that context and trying to figure out who I am in relation to all of these things. And I don't know that I fully was able to articulate that to myself until I was in university, until I graduated university and until I moved towards adulthood, where I started able to start separating. Well, this is me, masking and mirroring, and this is me at my core, and I will say it's exhausting, right, like neurodivergent people and neurodivergent women and children. They're tired, they're tired. There's a reason that anxiety disorders and depression are so common, right? 70% of folks who are neurodivergent experience some type of anxiety disorder during the course of their life. Neurodivergent folks are 30 to 50% more likely to experience depressive episodes than neurotypical folks. So there's a. It all sort of takes a toll on your body and on your mind, but you kind of figure it out as a survival instinct.

Speaker 1:

Hmm, right, and that you know, that definitely has. You know it definitely takes a toll, you know, when you're trying very hard to assimilate and you're trying hard to fit in, and you're trying hard to be accepted and understood, because nobody, at the end of the day, nobody, wants to be alone.

Speaker 2:

you know wants to be alone, you know, and into adulthood too, like when we think these are patterns that continue into adulthood. Right, when we think about neurodivergent women in the workplace. You're still trying to find that community. You're still trying to find your tribe. You're trying to succeed and oftentimes you're having to pull together these personas that others you know through practice. You know others are going to respond to, and that's how you succeed, right Is by putting on this mask, by putting on this little actress self and saying this is the version of me that you're going to respond to. This is how I'm going to get the work done. It will exhaust me, it'll be a little bit harder, but we'll make progress together.

Speaker 1:

Right, right, exactly, and you know what I feel like it's different when you know like in a workplace right, you know, I don't know, I felt, I've always felt like in a workplace it's easier to mask because you are already assigned to a specific task and you already know beforehand what the expectations are. Right, because it's not so free, flowing, right. Whereas when you're around other people right, and you're trying to be around, like, let's say, you have a lot of people having different kinds of conversations going on, you know just figuring out how to keep it going, how to end it, um, you know figuring where do I belong in social circles? Right, and things like that. I think that you know it's so much easier to actually, when you're in the workplace, be, you know it's easier to mask. In that sense it is and it isn't.

Speaker 2:

And I would say, and in the leadership team level, when you are a leader, you're in a position where you have to mask and mirror, but you also have to make the decisions, and those decisions impact the entire company.

Speaker 2:

And you have to predict how folks are going to respond to these decisions, and you can make hyper-rational decisions right. You can make the things. You can make the decisions that are right for the business, the stakeholders. You can take the information that's coming to you from the market and drive your business forward. But in terms of responding to what is that going to mean for my employees, what is that going to mean for the larger context of the organization or future, and how do I contextualize this in a way that's going to make sense for folks? That's a challenge, so it kind of follows you.

Speaker 1:

It does. And I mean, yeah, I mean I can also say, like, even in the mental health field and this is something people don't talk about enough, because I'm a therapist and I'll say this I've worked in companies and jobs where it's very much run like a firm, in the sense of you know making sure you're billing a lot of hours, a certain amount of client hours. You needed to meet clients you needed to retain. It was that expectation. And the thing is, when you're neurodivergent whether you're on the autism spectrum, adhd, whatever you have right Well, I know I can speak for're on the autism spectrum, adhd, whatever you have right Well, I know I can speak for being on the spectrum. You know you're not going to be for everyone. And the thing is it's very unique in what kind of clients will come to you and stay with you versus what will leave. And there were some places that did not respond well to that at all.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's something that a lot of my clients so I primarily I'm an executive coach, I primarily work with neurodivergent leaders and executives and there is this sense of okay, well, this is how the business has always operated and therefore I must operate in this way and these are the clients I must target and these are the ways of working that I must fit into, without acknowledging that if you make some slight adjustments to the ways of working, you can actually deliver more value. To the ways of working, you can actually deliver more value, you can be more present, you can get to answers faster, you can support your clients differently or better. So it is a really big challenge trying to fit in with organizational norms that have always been taken for granted without question. And now you're going to question it and say what are some small changes? That's the goal. Right Is what are some small changes I can make, either to my day, to my routines or to our collective ways of working, so that we're all at our best, including?

Speaker 1:

myself positions, and I know you said that before you had to work a lot harder than anybody, than everybody else. So, like what drew you to the kind of job that you have right now and like what led you there. What was your journey like to get here?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I would say the last corporate role I had before I started my own business, I was the chief people officer of a technology company, so I ran HR. Before that I had, yeah, leadership positions at various tech companies. I was a management consultant, the chief people officer of a technology company, so I ran HR. Before that. I had leadership positions at various tech companies. I was a management consultant, working at large firms for several years.

Speaker 2:

And I will say there are unique gifts and strengths that come with my neurodivergence and I know that, one of which is my information processing speed. Another is pattern recognition. I can look at large, disparate sets of data or facts that seem unconnected and I can find the connections and make it work and sort of come up with the assertions that other people may not see. So you know, sort of harnessing those gifts are how I made it up. It was through the quality of work, I will say, the interactions with other people and the politics. Like navigating organizational politics has never been my sweet spot. It's been definitely a weakness and certainly has hampered me, and those are the areas where I've had to work significantly harder right and that's where I've been reliant on really strong mentors and relationships and the organization where I've had to go and say like I don't know what I'm doing wrong here or help me understand how I pissed this person off by doing this. I thought I was doing my job, and so finding that sort of network internally in the organizations to help translate right you sometimes need a translation service. But while there are those challenges and navigating those challenges, I would say harnessing my own gifts to be able to drive value for the organizations, for the teams that I was in, is what helped me move upwards and outwards the service orientation right.

Speaker 2:

Something that has always been a focus of mine is like how can I serve and how can I give back to the people around me? You know I'm generally pretty aware of motivations. So, like understanding the motivations of those around me, or I will also say like emotions are not something I necessarily take for granted and in personal situations I have to lead with curiosity. I have to because I can't make assumptions and trust that those assumptions are correct. So operating from that place of curiosity, asking more questions, has also been able to give me more data that other people may make assumptions about and, again, take for granted and act upon. This gives me sort of that raw, unfiltered feeling. It also means that the people around me feel like they're heard and that they're seen, and so that's a gift that comes with the neurodivergence as well.

Speaker 1:

And absolutely you know, like they say, that you know, the more that you ask questions and the more that you show that you're interested right, the more that you yourself can become interesting.

Speaker 1:

Actually, I heard this quote somewhere that if you want to be interesting, be interested right, and I feel like um, I think that was. If I'm not mistaken, I think that was a Dale Carnegie quote. I'm not mistaken Um but um, but I feel like that's kind of where you know the, you know this is where that power comes into and this is what I think you know. It seems like you know, even though things are difficult, you really found those gifts and your curiosity and that your hunger for knowledge and your way that you interpret data right, and the fact that you have that hunger for knowledge that helps you gain all that data that you're able to then use to give back and help others and make decisions that are going to build everybody right I think that's just such a powerful thing that you know you have and that's, you know, one of the things that makes you be who you are and so good at your job.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for saying that, but I think that's the work right. In a world in which oftentimes the way we talk about neurodivergences as a disability and something to be accommodated in workplaces and in social situations, I think there's a huge opportunity to shift the way we think and shift the taxonomy and shift the language. It's not something to be tolerated and I think if we take a strengths-based approach to how we navigate neurodivergence, both at the individual level and at an organizational level, and say that there are unique gifts that come with this. So how might we unlock those gifts? How might we create space for neurodivergent individuals to operate their strengths in a way that's most natural to them, so that it benefits them as individuals, the organizations that they support and the communities that they live in, and then you know, then you can start to have a conversation around. Okay, as we're harnessing these gifts, there are obviously some challenges. We all have challenges, right it's not just neurodivergence.

Speaker 2:

So how do we couch those, or what are the small tools or strategies we can put into place, either as an again, individuals or communities to support that? But taking that strengths-based approach and changing the way in which we discuss this, I think, gives us a greater opportunity to support cognitive diversity in all of its forms as we continue to learn more and more about this work.

Speaker 1:

No, absolutely, and you're right. I mean, it's one of those things that I think. Here's the thing it takes people understanding number one, that people who are neurodivergent have their own talents and strengths and are able to perform the essential functions of a job, but in a different way, Right, and it takes people, you know, with open minds, open hearts, right. And also it takes, that, you know, self-belief. You know that all of us and I, you know I could speak for myself on this one here. I'm not going to, I don't want to speak for everybody else, but, you know, for me, in order to push through, I had to have a crazy amount of self-belief that, hey, I can go out here and do this. You know, I can perform this task, I can perform this job, I'm good at this, Right.

Speaker 1:

And I had to, like, really learn to use my, even though things are challenging, I had to use some of that as also a superpower, because it allowed me, right To then, you know, become, you know, like a better, uh, like a podcast host. It became like an author, you know, therapist, right, All this stuff. This is what allowed me. It's because of my autism, it's because I have it right, Like you know and I started, you know and you know. So it kind of goes into like kind of what you're saying is, you know, changing that approach about how we look at neurodivergence and using that as more of a strength based approach?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly Like what are. You know, if you treat this as a gift, as a blessing, what possibilities are created under that lens? What possibilities can you create for yourself and for people become diagnosed? Because we know that that's happening every day. More and more folks who flew under the radar are getting these diagnoses and trying to figure out what it means for them, that they realize that it is a gift and there's so much good that comes from it and there's so much good that can continue to come from it and help them live fulfilling lives.

Speaker 1:

In your experience now, like you said, like you, of course, were able to compartmentalize right being in the workplace, being in different social settings, you know how you had to maybe portray yourself or come across for others in order to accomplish certain things, whether it be to get through the social interactions, whether it be to get through the workday, get job done right. What were you able to learn about yourself authentically in the process? I mean, apart from you know you're very good at you know you have a very good hunger for knowledge. You're very good at taking data and interpreting data. You know from what you gather, from being interested in others, to make decisions that are very wholesome. What else have you learned about who? You were there?

Speaker 2:

are. Yeah, I think I'm a lot more empathetic than I've given myself credit for in the years past. I'm not the person that hears a sad story and immediately starts crying. I'm not the person that goes into a scary situation and immediately starts panicking. You know, one of the things that comes from my neurodivergence is the ability to compartmentalize, pause and delay an emotional reaction. It's just something that naturally happens for many of us. Either our body shut down or we delay it.

Speaker 2:

And you know, friends and family have always sort of joked about my level of empathy. But I will actually say what I've noticed is because I'm not responding with emotions, I'm actually able to see and notice subtle cues. So in a social situation, I can start to see if someone's body language is telling me that they're uncomfortable. I can start to get curious about that. I can go and check in on that person and advocate for that person as necessary. Sorry, we cut out for a second, did you still hear me? Yeah, something challenging. I can just hold that space for them without coloring that experience, with my own thoughts, my own feelings, my own emotions, my own experiences. And I think there's a unique level of empathy and being able to honor that space without responding with my own personal emotions. That is actually truly valuable, and it's one of the things that helps me in my role as a people leader right In supporting employees and supporting the people around me.

Speaker 1:

How do you deal with your overwhelm? Because you know I'm just wondering, like you know it to be in a leadership position where you're dealing with people all day. You know I can only imagine it can get taxing, especially because it's a lot of work and energy that you're putting in, not only you know, just in general in the work sense and fulfilling obligations, duties, responsibilities, but also the additional stuff that you take into account that many people who may not be neurodivergent particularly, may understand or appreciate fully right that level. So how do you handle like your daily and how do you manage it?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and here's the work. Right, this is the work that I do with myself, this is the work that I do with my clients, but it's I'd say there's like a couple of key strategies. One is what I call the MVR, so that's the minimum viable routine. So I have a list of things that I've sort of made and that is at a minimum. No matter what every single day whether I'm overwhelmed, sad, overstimulated, not these are the things that must get done, and that's things like walking my dog and feeding him and things like that. So, as part of your MVR, identify things that can be automated and taken care of for you so that it's not impacted by dysregulation or waves. And then so I have automatic feeders and things like that as well. So the MVR is sort of sacrosanct. The second component is self-awareness and self-regulation, and so that is doing a lot of somatic work and seeking to understand what it looks like when I'm dysregulated, so whether it's due to sensory overwhelm or, you know, that tends to be one of my biggest triggers is sensory overwhelm or too much happening all at once. And I went to a conference not too long ago in Vegas, and that is, you know, you have to go through the slot machines to get to the actual conference and go to the sessions as sensory overwhelm all the time. So getting really in touch with your body and knowing that, hey, I'm approaching dysregulation, like my hands are starting to shake, I can start to feel that sort of tension in my chest, my voice is starting to quiver. So I know what this feels like for me and I can understand the physical triggers, because sometimes mentally, logically, you won't necessarily know. You're moving to that space and then coming up with your strategies and they look different for everyone. For me, I have a one and a two minute meditation practice. So being able to step away for exactly 120 seconds, close my eyes, engage in my practice, re-regulate my system, get my heart rate down and then open my eyes and get back to it, that's something I know. If I'm sort of beyond a certain threshold, I actually need to exit that situation. So coming up with those cues again and just letting folks know hey, I actually need a minute, if you'll excuse me, step outside, go for a walk, do I need do what I need to do? Come back.

Speaker 2:

I also know like folks who are on the spectrum will notice energy dips throughout the day. So specific moments in time throughout the day where you start to feel that overwhelm creep in. For me that's typically around 3 PM. I always have this thing across my calendar. It's called TTFR. It's tea time for Rita Um at 3 PM. Right around there almost every day, I actually disappear for a moment. I have my own cup of herbal tea.

Speaker 2:

I have my own ritual in terms of how I decompress and then I can come back to the world um understanding things that work for you. So, like vigorous exercise a certain number of times a week, um has been shown to be extraordinarily helpful, not just for folks who are on the spectrum, but especially for folks who have ADHD. Especially for folks who have ADHD, it's a really great regulating mechanism, and so block those times off, and knowing when I get the most out of my workout might be in the middle of the day blocking those things off. So I would say know yourself, get really curious about yourself and get to know yourself really well. Who are you in your best moments and who are you when you're dysregulated.

Speaker 2:

How will you know when you're dysregulated, what are the strategies, automations, tools, techniques that you can start to employ and bake into your calendar and bake into your routines so that it's automatic. I'm starting to feel this. This is a strategy I go towards. This is how I navigate that. This is how I check in, this is how I resolve and move forward check in.

Speaker 1:

This is how I resolve and move forward and that's a very important advice that you'd give just now to really know yourself when you are dysregulated, when you're at your best moments, because it's so true that you know what there are things that people need to do, and know themselves well enough to understand what they need to give themselves the self-care that they need. You know, and I definitely can relate to you know, being overwhelmed, especially like don't get me wrong, I enjoy going to conferences and all, but it can be very overwhelming. And I remember when I went to actually I went to a conference in February. I had my book launch there and, honestly, by the time the whole conference is over, I honestly felt burnt out. I took a week off work. I remember this and because I spoke at the conference, I launched the book there as well and and don't get me wrong, I loved it Very good conference, but man, it felt like a social hangover big time after the conference was over and it was just overall, just like a very big, like I needed that week to just decompress, regroup everything. And so I get it.

Speaker 1:

You know it can be very overwhelming. You know any event, big social events can get overwhelming too, and it's like you know and I know for me. You know like I I run a lot. I run with autism speaks for the marathon. So I'll be in New York in November doing that, and then you know I know like running helps me.

Speaker 1:

And, um, rocking, actually I do also keep some fidgets with me, and just sitting and rocking back and forth does the trick for me. I love to rock, I really do and fidget, and I have clients that I work with who also love to fidget, and sometimes we'll just fidget together in session and it's a lot of fun actually that way and also it's a great way of us connecting that way too. So it's like you know. But I really just do definitely appreciate that advice that you gave about really just knowing who you are. And you know, you know what your strengths are, you know yourself well enough, you know what you need every day, and so you're and I heard you say earlier now you are getting your master's correct.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm doing a master's right now at the University of Pennsylvania.

Speaker 1:

Oh, excellent. And what are you?

Speaker 2:

getting your master's in. It's an organizational dynamics, but my focus area is very much in leadership and specifically neurodivergent leadership. Oh, excellent.

Speaker 1:

Excellent, specifically neurodivergent leadership.

Speaker 2:

Oh, excellent, excellent, and Rita if people wanted to come and find you. Where can people reach out to you at? Yeah, so my business is wwwiksanacom. I offer executive and leadership coaching for neurodivergent leaders and certainly some work working with organizations and HR teams to drive more inclusive cultures, but you can also just find me on LinkedIn and reach out anytime. I love working with this community. I love partnering with this community and meeting others within it.

Speaker 1:

Excellent. Well, it was really a pleasure to have you on here and thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for doing all that you do to give back, to help other women and, you know, especially those with neurodivergence Because really we need each other. We really do, you know, and it's collectiveness that's going to help us, not division, and so I really appreciate all that you're doing for the community, all that you are, you know, all that you've, you know you're just about all your passion, everything to help and give back, and so I, from the bottom of my heart, I thank you so much for all that.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, I really appreciate you having me on and, um, I really enjoyed this discussion. Well, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, I enjoyed it very much as well. And that, my folks, is a wrap for this episode of on the spectrum with Sonia. Remember, if you enjoy this content, please review, subscribe and share with your family, with your friends. Also, if you haven't already, my book dropped in a maze is available on all major from all major retailers, book distributors. Also, as promised, I promised you I was going to read reviews if you left a review. So today's review that I'm going to read is from Nancy Spano. It says Sonia is a beacon for all that fall under her footsteps, incredible author and fantastic book. Thank you very much, nancy, for that review. Dropped in a maze, remember, if you purchase it, remember, and you write a review, it'll be read on this podcast out loud. Apart from that, just keep tuning in. I'm going to keep sharing, keep subscribing, reviewing, rating and I will be coming with you with more amazing episodes. So take care. Thank you so much, everyone and have a amazing day.