On the Spectrum Empowerment Stories with Sonia Krishna Chand: Autism, Neurodivergence, and Mental Health

Rewiring the Brain: The Power of Neurofeedback

• Sonia Krishna Chand • Season 2 • Episode 42

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By now, everybody has heard of traditional going to therapy and taking medications, if necessary. However, what role does neurofeedback play in treating mental health? 

Meet Meg Stuppy, founder of the Los Angeles Neurofeedback Center and co-founder of Clarity Direct Neurofeedback, who joins us to illuminate how neurofeedback technology is transforming mental health treatment by helping rebalance the brain's natural rhythms. With 13 years of experience in the field, Meg explains in accessible terms how this brain-based approach works and why it's gaining recognition as a powerful complement to traditional therapies.

At its core, Direct Neurofeedback uses EEG sensors to read brainwave patterns and send back customized microcurrent signals that help dysfunctional patterns recalibrate. The beauty of this approach lies in its simplicity for clients – they remain completely passive during the 30-minute sessions, yet many report feeling shifts in their mental state.

What makes this conversation particularly compelling are the real-world examples Meg shares. From adults stuck in anxious hypervigilance who suddenly find themselves navigating LA traffic without honking, to children on the autism spectrum who significantly reduce self-injurious behaviors, the results speak to neurofeedback's potential to improve quality of life. One particularly moving case involves a child who went from biting his hand to bleeding 5-6 times daily to experiencing entire days without the behavior after just 15 sessions.

Whether you're a mental health professional looking to expand your toolkit or someone struggling with anxiety, depression, trauma, or neurodevelopmental differences, this episode offers fresh insights into how addressing nervous system dysregulation might be the missing link in your healing journey. By the end, you'll understand why so many clients say, "I haven't felt this way in years" after experiencing what a balanced nervous system truly feels like.

Ready to explore how neurofeedback might complement your existing mental health approaches? Listen now and discover why balancing the brain might be the foundation everything else can build upon.

Meg Stuppy can be reached at info@losangelesneurofeedbackcenter.com

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia, a podcast where we discuss autism spectrum mental health challenges and highlight stories of inspiration to leave our audience feeling empowered, connected, encouraged, loved and especially in a world where we're continuously trying to be divided and disconnected by a world promoting that, pushing that on us. Today we're going to be talking about neurofeedback. Neurofeedback and this is a disclaimer here this is not to be constructed as any advice or any directives that we're giving. We're discussing neurofeedback in terms of how it's complementing psychotherapy and anybody who goes to a psychiatrist for any medication to help with the biochemical aspects of any mental health conditions.

Speaker 1:

Neurofeedback is an area that is growing and today we have a very special guest from Los Angeles, meg Stuppe. She is the founder of the Los Angeles Neurofeedback Center and co-founder of Clarity Direct Neurofeedback, and she has been doing neurofeedback for several years. She's very qualified in this area and, without further ado, I actually want to introduce her to all of you now. So, meg, thank you so much for being here today and joining us. I have been really following all that you've been doing and it's so amazing to me just the work that you've been doing. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you to doing neurofeedback?

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Sonia, and thank you for having me on. And yeah, I started my neurofeedback journey 13 years ago. I founded the Los Angeles Neurofeedback Center and since then you know, we've really been focusing on helping local community the best we can and, big picture, really helping to balance the nervous system through neurofeedback therapy and biofeedback therapies. Specifically, we've been using clarity direct neurofeedback as the main neurofeedback modality in our clinic neurofeedback modality in our clinic.

Speaker 1:

So explain to us. You know the basics of what is neurofeedback and how are people gaining from this complement therapy.

Speaker 2:

Sure, neurofeedback is a type of biofeedback and with direct neurofeedback we're using a brain-based technology that's based on an EEG which reads your brainwaves, kind of like an EKG reads your heart.

Speaker 2:

So we put sensors on the client's brain to read their brainwaves, which goes through our system and it sends back a customized signal to the client through the sensors, which allows dysfunctional brainwave patterns to recalibrate and get back to their natural, normal homeostasis.

Speaker 2:

We find that after trauma which could be emotional trauma or it could be physical trauma like hitting your head, or it could just be prolonged stress from any point in your life that the brain can get out of calibration and can get stuck with an unbalanced nervous system, either in the sympathetic or parasympathetic overdrive which really affects all of your biology in different ways.

Speaker 2:

So with direct neurofeedback, typically sessions are about 30 minutes. The client's totally passive, there's nothing that they need to do in order for the neurofeedback to work, which is what makes it different than traditional neurofeedback modalities. So the client's just sitting there, we put the sensors on and typically clients will begin to feel a little bit of a shift during the session or after the session. Clients will begin to feel a little bit of a shift during the session or after the session. So what makes direct neurofeedback something that's different than traditional biofeedback modalities is that the client will typically notice a difference in the first couple sessions. So they're not having to go through eight to 10 sessions before they know if it'll be a good fit for them, and because of that, a lot of therapists and physicians like their patients to come in and use this as an adjunct modality so that the nervous system is able to become more balanced, so that they're able to get further in other therapies that they're utilizing.

Speaker 1:

So you have mentioned the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system. How does that play a role in a person's mental health and their well-being, in how they're responding to any kinds of treatment? What role does each play? And how does the direct neurofeedback how does that also help highlight the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems and provide useful boosts in treatment?

Speaker 2:

It's a great question. When we're stuck in a sympathetic overdrive, where we're in that fight or flight mode, it really affects everything from the way that we're thinking to how our gut is digesting food. And so when you're stuck in that sympathetic overdrive, you know we see symptoms of higher anxiety. We see clients who are hypervigilant, we see clients who are not able to self-soothe and calm down, and they can try meditation, they can try talk therapy. There are a lot of things that they can try to do.

Speaker 2:

But when you're stuck in that fight or flight where your body's in survival mode, there's only so much use you can get out of different modalities when your body's reacting like it's trying to survive. Or, on the opposite end, if you go into that parasympathetic freeze shutdown mode, we see clients who are coming in with symptoms of depression, where they're just not able to get up and go, and so you know, the gut slows down, it's hard to motivate, sleep is disturbed. In both of those we find that these symptoms decrease with neurofeedback as the nervous system is able to rebalance and with that clients are then able to get further again at using those more Western medical approaches that are needed now, when you are monitoring, uh, the brain, are you also looking at the dorsal vagal in the brain as well, the dorsal vagal?

Speaker 1:

are you looking at the like, the vasovagal throughout the body? You know the receptors of the vagus system. Are you looking through all that as well?

Speaker 2:

no, with direct neurofeedback. We're really just monitoring the EEG and the brainwaves.

Speaker 1:

Okay, but the brainwaves are telling of the sympathetic and the parasympathetic connection, Correct? Now you said that patients have seen a shift during session, so could you give us an example of, let's say, somebody was to walk in. What would like a case study example look like, right, when a patient comes in they are experiencing, let's say, some trauma, they have PTSD perhaps, or somebody now I know you've also mentioned you've had worked with people on the autism spectrum right who have come in what would like a typical session look like.

Speaker 2:

Sure. So the client comes in and in the first session, you know, we discuss what the process looks like, why they're coming in and after that we'll actually administer a session. We make sure that they're not driving afterwards for the first session, because sometimes you can get tired or relaxed, and so when we're administering the session we come up with a few different areas that we'll track that are based on that specific client and what they're coming in for and how they're feeling. And what we're looking for is any change, either while they're sitting during the 30-minute session or as they continue their day. So if someone's coming in with really high anxiety, hyper vigilance, sweaty palms, high heart rate what we'll do is we'll monitor those things during the session and then after the session to see if they're noticing any difference or if they have difficulty sleeping. We'll, in the morning, have them send a message in with how their sleep was. You know how many times did they wake up, how long did it take for them to get back to sleep? So typically with anything that's anxiety related, clients will notice that their symptoms decrease pretty immediately. In the beginning it will be short lived, meaning it will be temporary, Noticing a decrease anywhere from half hour to a few days, depending on.

Speaker 2:

With autism, with our autism clients, we're really looking for overall nervous system regulation. For overall nervous system regulation and with kids for example, one of our clients right now when he gets upset, what he'll do is he'll put his hand in his mouth and he'll bite his hand to the point of causing bleeding. In the beginning it was about five or six times a day, and so now he's about two months in. He's had about 10, no, I would say about 15 sessions, and so he still gets upset, but he's putting his hand in his mouth less often and there are days where he doesn't bite down at all, and so, as his nervous system is more resilient and more relaxed, he's able to have more bandwidth with controlling those emotional responses and for the family, that's the quality of life change there is worth them continuing sessions.

Speaker 1:

During the time that they are, and I want to say this is remarkable. That's a remarkable progress for someone to make in terms of, you know, just decreasing the amount of times they're putting their hand in their mouth and biting it. That's remarkable that they're not doing this as often within the timeframe of getting this direct feedback. And you said he only had what like 10 sessions, which is amazing to see that much change, you know, within that bandwidth of sessions, during the time that people are having their session. Now you said it's about what? 30 minutes. In that 30 minutes are you asking questions to people? Is there some kind of like format they're're following, like what you know, what goes on during that time?

Speaker 2:

Sure, we have them fill out some basic intake forms beforehand. Okay, we make sure that there is a clinician that is is that they're under the care of, to help with anything else that they may be dealing with. And what we do is we come up with we really kind of personalize our sessions to the client so we come up with ways to track surveys, to track how long they're noticing a difference, for which helps us know with consecutive sessions what we need to change on our end as far as the stimulation that we're sending. So it's really just about personalizing questions and surveys so that we can track progress.

Speaker 1:

During the time that they're being monitored and having the sensors on their brain to measure the waves, are you asking them the questions you've tailored for them during the time they're having this done?

Speaker 2:

We typically. It depends on how self-aware the client is. Sometimes we'll, while we're actually giving the feedback, we'll kind of sit in silence just so they can be more self-aware of how they're feeling. But we're not trying to evoke any kind of emotion during the session by asking questions, so the client doesn't need to be doing anything in order for it to work. So, especially in the first session, like as we're actually giving the feedback, it's not unusual for us to kind of just sit there and have them just hang out and relax and see how they're feeling.

Speaker 1:

When you're giving them feedback, what are? What exactly are you pinpointing at? Are you going to be pinpointing certain areas of the brain where you're noticing more activity, or are you trying to just kind of so that they're more aware of how it's affecting them with their brain, with their processing? Or are you, um, just trying to give them a baseline, like, like, how do you explain that to a client?

Speaker 2:

sure. So with direct neurofeedback, we are just making sure that the eeg is on properly and that the reading is clear and that the feedback is going back properly. So we're not diagnosing based on what we're seeing and the placement is the same for everyone. So there's no, we're not looking to see or doing any mapping or QEEGs in order for the process to work, which is what makes direct neurofeedback different and actually, in my opinion, makes it much easier to try, because you don't need to jump through the hoops of having a QEEG or having specific monitoring done beforehand and diagnosis done beforehand in order for it to work.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and so when clients are being more introspective, if you will, during that time that they're in session, now, do you notice that a lot of clients will openly just share things during the time that they're in session? That comes out just kind of naturally, like you know, if they're feeling a certain way. So like somebody, like kind of going to an example you had used earlier, somebody is very hypervigilant, has high anxiety is and just has maybe, like you said, a higher heart rate, things like that. Do you notice that things will just come out naturally when they're getting monitored, or do people pretty much just kind of, are they left to be more introspective, to just kind of be aware of their feelings?

Speaker 2:

It really depends on the client. I mean, when we have clients coming in who have, are experiencing symptoms of anxiety that are like eight or nine out of 10 and have been for years, when they feel like that starts to drop down in the sympathetic nervous system relaxes, it can be emotional for some of them and that's why we were always sure to we always make sure that they have a therapist or a clinician that they can go to to process those feelings. So it's not unusual, as they, you know, come back down into more homeostasis in their nervous system, that things will come up that they've kind of been pushing aside, you know, for many years in some cases cases and the relaxation that happens, is it just more because of just?

Speaker 1:

is it because of the way that the structure is? When you get, when a person is in the session because the brainwaves you're getting the brainwaves recorded, people are just, they're left to sit and just be present, they're left to sit and just be present that relaxation that you talk about, that happens is it something that you find is like a natural phenomena, with all that?

Speaker 2:

It's? The most common thing that clients will experience is kind of more of a relaxation feeling. Some other clients will kind of feel more relaxed and alert. They'll explain it as like a calm alertness. And then there are some clients who feel like a little bit euphoric.

Speaker 1:

Almost Everyone's just kind of different with how their body responds as their nervous system readjusts itself and what have you noticed to be kind of like a theme that for people who've in your experience having done neurofeedback now for 13 years um, what have you noticed to be like a common theme amongst many clients? What have you noticed to be, uh, something that really kind of stands out?

Speaker 2:

I think that a lot of our clients have become really used to living life with a dysregulated nervous system and they forget what it can feel like to feel more balance, to not be at those eights and nines out of tens, whether it be symptoms of anxiety or symptoms of depression. Symptoms of anxiety or symptoms of depression. And so it's pretty common for clients to say like I haven't felt like this in years, or I didn't realize how off kilter I was for so long because I just became so accustomed to living that way. And it's really what makes the the work very meaningful to us. It kind of gives it gives the client an ability to feel more balanced in their life, where they're able to access more and what they're doing in their day-to-day and how they're feeling in their day-to-day and what's that realization like for people?

Speaker 1:

like how? How do people know, then? Like, how are they able to? You know you're getting this feedback, you're, you know people are getting the feedback. How are they able to just kind of come to this realization that they've been off kilter for so many years that they've never felt a certain way like this before? Or if they have, it's been a really long time so that they don't remember even the last time, right, you know? How is it that they're able to actually come to this realization of that? You know what happens in the body with this process, I guess would be. My question is what happens during this process in the body that causes this relaxation?

Speaker 2:

causes this relaxation? Yeah, so, as the as the brain readjusts and gets back to, you know, gets back to neuronal pathways that it hasn't used in sometimes many, many years, even decades, I think that what stands out the most of the client is that they're able to do their day-to-day tasks without so much noise, whether that be like rumination in the head or feeling so much stress in order to do basic tasks. So with some clients, you know, we, what we'll do is we'll focus on just, you know, how was it getting home from the appointment? You know, and they'll get home and they'll be like wow, it's been a decade since I haven't honked my horn on the way home or felt angst while driving in LA traffic.

Speaker 2:

Or with our kids who are coming in for ADD, ADHD symptoms, just the parents being able to see that they were able to sit, you know, for 20 minutes and complete a task without having to get up five times. Or for our clients who are suffering from PTSD, you know, being able to walk their dog and not jump when they hear a door slam or someone hits their brakes. So it's just the little things in day-to-day seem to be less triggering and easier for them to just live their life without being feeling like they're on edge all the time, able to be more present and enjoying life and this is all due to strictly just once again, just having that being still moments.

Speaker 1:

It seems like that just having that ability to just be still having that monitoring, just alone it seems to activate different parts of the brain naturally. Yes, that's really amazing. And what would be the science then behind that? Because there's no electrical stimulation, it's just brainwaves being monitored. What would be the science behind how other parts of the brain get activated?

Speaker 2:

So there is the feedback is a microcurrent that is going through the sensors. So the sensors are reading brainwaves, it's going through the EEG in the system and it's sending back a microcurrent signal that's customized to the client, that allows those dysfunctional neuronal pathways to reset. So that is where the feedback is coming directly to the client through the sensors.

Speaker 1:

And do you notice that in you know, like you've given the examples of? Like you know, like the 10 sessions with somebody on the autism spectrum who would engage in rather self-injurious behaviors during meltdowns, have you noticed that, like 10 sessions or about approximately that much would be all that you know would be sufficient for most people, would be all that you know would be sufficient for most people, or do you notice that it just or does it vary amongst people? But is it?

Speaker 2:

rather short lived sessions Like it's not like a long term thing. So typically it's 15 to 25 sessions total that are done over a few months. Mm hmm, With our clients on the spectrum that can be a longer process. Where it's ongoing, where they're coming in maybe every other month for a session. It doesn't stick as well in certain cases for them, but for other clients it's typically two sessions a week for the first three weeks. So we get those that reinforcement in for those first six sessions and then, as the results are enduring, you begin to come in with more time between. So by the time you're hitting the 15 to 25 sessions, you're coming in maybe once every six weeks so so it's like um.

Speaker 1:

So this is all very interesting. This is something, I will be honest, I didn't know a whole lot about um. Where can people go to get more resources and information and training, perhaps about neurofeedback?

Speaker 2:

Sure yeah. Our website losangelesneurofeedbackcentercom gives more information in general For any clinicians that are interested in potentially using the technology and their practice. They can go to claritydirectneurofeedbackcom for more information and you can also find a list of providers near you on claritydirectneurofeedbackcom.

Speaker 1:

Are these lists of providers? Now, is it all, throughout the country?

Speaker 2:

It's pretty much North America. So we have some providers in Canada and we have a couple of providers in Mexico.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, awesome. What brought you to doing? What got you into neurofeedback?

Speaker 2:

family of physicians. I studied biology in undergrad and I thought I would go the whole med school route, but became pretty disenchanted with the idea after graduating of going to more school, and so I felt depressed. I felt kind of lost. I didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't want to go on antidepressants, and someone recommended that I try neurofeedback, and so I did and I was really impressed. It was the traditional kind of neurofeedback, so it took about eight or nine sessions before I really noticed a difference, but I was really impressed at how it kind of helped me get back to feeling like myself again and able to take the next steps, and so I had no problem with going to school for neurofeedback. So that's what I did and the rest is kind of history. Me and neurofeedback found each other. It was great because I wanted to help people, I wanted to have my own business and it was kind of just the perfect thing.

Speaker 1:

How long did it take you to get the training for it and everything, and what'd you have to do to get trained for it?

Speaker 2:

Sure it took about a year. I first studied at BrainState Technologies in Arizona utilizing their equipment, and then I studied in Los Angeles specifically for direct neurofeedback.

Speaker 1:

Los Angeles specifically for direct neurofeedback. Well, thank you so much for this very engaging and educational topic. And one thing if you could say something like, let's say, many clinicians may be skeptical to those out there listening to this. Some may be skeptical, some may be thinking well, you know, if there's medication and there's EMDR, and there's hypnosis for trauma, and there's CBT, dbt and all these other traditional therapy techniques out there, you know how would you answer somebody that would ask why should we care about neurofeedback and to incorporate it?

Speaker 2:

You know, it's just another option, another adjunct therapy that can help in the whole process. All those things you listed are I've found to be very helpful and my clients have found to be very helpful. I've found to be very helpful and my clients have found to be very helpful. What's nice about the direct neurofeedback is if it's going to be helpful. Typically the clients will feel the difference in the first couple of sessions, and so, with a more balanced nervous system, often they're able to get further using those other modalities you mentioned, and they're able to access more when they're more relaxed and not feeling stuck in that sympathetic or parasympathetic state.

Speaker 1:

Okay, well, thank you very much, and thank you so much for clarifying that and explaining to all of us what that is, and this is definitely a topic I'm very interested in and learning and growing from. So thank you for imparting this knowledge to us. Now, meg, if people wanted to find you and reach out to you, perhaps for questions, to learn more, to gain more information, where can people find you?

Speaker 2:

You can find me on our websites. You can find me on our socials. You can also just send an email to info at Los Angeles neurofeedbackcentercom or info at claritydirectneurofeedbackcom and you'll get me. I'm happy to hear from anyone or answer any questions anyone might have.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much for being here today. All your information, all Meg's information, will be in the show notes and, with that being said, I want to thank Meg for being here with us today and sharing such amazing knowledge and interesting topics that everyone, whether you're a clinician who works in mental health or not, can all benefit and learn from. Also, as we're wrapping up, I want to remind everyone that my book Dropped in a Maze is available on Amazon and is being sold by all major retailers. As promised for those who purchased my book and wrote a review. I've been reading the reviews out loud on the podcast. Been reading the reviews out loud on the podcast, so today's review is from Octavio Rodriguez.

Speaker 1:

This book was a breath of fresh air. It's an incredible insight into the world of those living with autism. As a therapist, I found this book so helpful for supporting and treating folks with needs for social and emotional training. Sonia had me cracking up throughout the book with her remarkable stories and wit. This book was written so creatively by adding Sonia's insight into what would have been helpful with certain skills, tools and certain tool skills been available to her at the time. Her at the time 10 out of 10 would recommend for anyone touched by autism or anyone looking for a great personal memoir parentheses my favorite literature genre and parentheses. Thank you, octavio. Um and with that being said, um, you know, if you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate, review and share with your family and friends, and looking forward to being back and sharing more with all of you next time, take care.