On the Spectrum Empowerment Stories with Sonia Krishna Chand: Adult Autism, Neurodivergent, and Mental Health Expert

Silent Battle, Shared Hope

• Sonia Krishna Chand | Adult Autism and Neurodivergent Mental Health Expert | Empowerment Coaching • Season 2 • Episode 49

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Trigger Warning: Suicide

The hardest part isn’t finding the perfect words—it’s showing up without judgment. We sit down with Helping Heroes founder Tony DeMaio to share a clear, compassionate playbook for preventing suicide among veterans, first responders, and anyone you love who might be slipping into isolation. From the earliest warning signs to practical safety steps, this conversation is built to help you notice sooner and act with confidence.

Tony traces his journey from coaching and cycling events with hundreds of veterans to launching community workshops that put tools in people’s hands. We map the common spiral—withdrawal, depression, substances—and highlight the quieter signals too: prized possessions given away, sudden calm after despair, hygiene changes, or finances rapidly “put in order.” You’ll learn how to start hard conversations with care, why asking about suicide doesn’t plant the idea, and how to avoid fixer mode by asking better questions that invite agency.

We go deep on real-world tactics: securing firearms and medications, staying present while someone calls 988, and assembling support circles that include peers, chaplains, union leads, and local resources like American Legion posts and bereavement groups. Tony shares stories that reveal how unspoken trauma fuels shame and loneliness, and why confidential spaces and community rituals—barbecues, rides, faith practices—can transform pain into connection. We also cover high-risk industries such as construction, healthcare, and law enforcement, and preview Tony’s new book, Silent Battle, a practical guide with checklists and scripts to use when minutes matter.

If you’ve ever worried you’ll say the wrong thing, this is your guide to showing up the right way: present, patient, and prepared. Listen, share it with a friend, and help us build a culture where asking for help is strength. If this moved you, subscribe, leave a review, and pass it on to someone who needs it today. 

Also visit helpingheroesusa.org to gather more information and see how to become more involved.

SPEAKER_00:

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SPEAKER_01:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's episode. Today, we're going to be talking about sensitive subjects. And as many of you may already know, September is suicide prevention month. And amongst the groups of people that are at risk for suicide are our veteran population. With us today is Tony DeMoo. He is the founder of Helping Heroes, which helps with veterans and families of veterans and connects them to education, mental health resources, and suicide prevention. And here to discuss his journey is to as to how he founded Helping Heroes back in 2017. Is Tony, thank you very much, Tony, for being here. Thank you for being on here today.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for having me on here and helping us move our message forward and reaching as many people as we can reach with message of prevention and how to approach the subject. And um you offline you'd asked me um how I started with helping Heroes USA. And I started working in this uh space about 2014, 2015. I was actually consulting to uh an organization called Project Hero, and we did cycling, we did uh bicycle rides. We'd ride from like San Antonio, Texas, to Houston or Jacksonville, Florida, Atlanta, and we'd have 150 or 200 veterans, and those are six or seven-day rides, and a lot of things came out of that. One was that in the uh suicide spiral, I'll call it, is we see people first starting to get isolated. They have isolation, then depression, then drugs and alcohol will come into play, and then they'll take their life. So, what the purpose of that event was, or those cycling events, and they still go on now, was to take and to get people out of isolation and get them plugged into some sort of an organization that they would continue to have relationships with. And so in our symposiums and our main focus is working with families, friends, loved ones. I mean, we actually we work with people that are at risk. You know, it's amazing that there's a suicide every 11 minutes in the United States. And over 12 million people have seriously attempted suicide last year. So the numbers are huge, and our viewpoint is that we can mitigate these by educating a community, letting people get the radar up, and dispelling some of the things about working with somebody that's in that space, that's in a dark space. And so that's how we, when we do our symposiums or do our webinars, lectures, we kind of take people through the process of what's happened. So our first point of attack is to show people how to identify some of the identifying signs of somebody that's thinking about death by suicide. One of the signs is that they start to give away their possessions. You'll see somebody start to give away things that are meaningful. We have uh in my book that's coming out next month, which is tomorrow, it's called Silent Battle. And we have some stories in there. One of the stories is from a uh law enforcement wife who started to notice that her husband was starting to give away a lot of his medals and awards and things that he'd won. And that was a trigger for her. She was smart enough to realize that you know he's doing this. The other thing that'll happen is people start to get their financial uh things in order, and they'll start to maybe write a will they've never had a will. So those are some things, and there's a lot of them that we we talk about and we work with people, but um another one is that their personal hygiene will just go, they just stop caring, you know. And so isolation is a red flag, and um that's one of the things we talk about. The next phase that a person will go into is depression. And depression is is really where somebody starts to check out, they're just down all the time. They they just get to the point where they go, it's not worth it, there's not a reason to live. And so in our our world, we work with how to deal with somebody, how to talk to somebody, how to how to take and work with depression. Now, one of the most important things is once you identify that somebody's at risk, is how to start a conversation and what to say in that conversation. And I tell you and tell you that the easiest thing is to be compassionate and not judgmental. Don't judge them for what they're doing. The other thing is to be able to listen. So, what I learned when I was um cycling, and again, we're on the road, we're cycling maybe four hours, six hours a day, and I'd pull up next to somebody and on the bike and we'd start to talk. And I'd listen to some of the things that were depressing them, some of the things that were haunting them. And it was easy for me to listen. So, one of the points I bring up is that I'm not a veteran, and so I had some apprehension about getting in a space working with veterans. But what I found out was that they were just appreciative that you were there to support them. And I say that message because a lot of people are afraid they see something is off with somebody, they see somebody starting to withdraw, and they don't approach them because they go, Well, they're gonna tell me I don't understand. They're gonna tell me that I couldn't appreciate where they're at because they've never been there. So I'll tell you that being a good listener is what it's all about. And so not being, not sharing. Now, there's one of the things I thought was valuable is that somebody would share a story with me, and somebody's stories are horrific, but I can't repeat them, but I had no experience to share back with them. So I would just listen. And what we found is that the healing process for them was just really to get it, get it out and talk to somebody about it. And uh, so I encourage people if they see somebody at risk, they start to see some of the signs that they feel okay. And that's what we're about. We're about empowering people, giving them the skills to be able to approach that person. And um, you know, so some of the questions are the way you would start a conversation is like, you know, I you know, I really care about you, and I've noticed that you're a little withdrawn lately. Is everything okay? You know, that type of approach. As opposed to I notice that your behavior, you know, like it's all judgmental, you're coming at them. So those are ways we talk about it. The other thing we talk about, it's okay if you identify somebody at risk, and then you need to solicit help and create a support group. So if you were, let's assume you're talking to a veteran and they just go, you know, you just don't understand, you won't be there. Well, then get a support group, get get another veteran. That's the hope. So I always preach there's 12,000 American Legion posts around the country. And if you go, if if you say, Look at I've got my dad, brother, uncle, sister, or cousin is thinking about suicide and they're a veteran. Can you help? They will help. They know how to reach out. So rely on resources. I don't know how many fire stations there are in the country, but there's a bunch. And if you were to talk to a fireman and say, Look, it I've got somebody that's retired, they're at risk, they're thinking about suicide. Can you help us? They'll get your help, they'll get they'll get that level playing field. So prefer to do that. And those are some of the things that that we talked about.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. And what was it like for you then to delve into this area of helping in listening to veterans' stories? Because you had mentioned that you haven't had experience, you're not a veteran, and you felt like you had nothing to really share with people and they would share their stories with you. So, what was it like to actually take in other people's stories?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it was it was fun. It was it was a little bit awakening. It was one of the things we talk about is if you're a caregiver, we'll call them a caregiver, but let's say you're a friend and you're supporting somebody, you've got to make sure you take care of yourself also, you know, like any caregiver, if it's a health issue or something like that, you've got to be strong and you've got to find a way that you work on yourself to be able to provide support. For me, um, you know, my background is a I was a football coach and I was coach UCLA, and um myself, I suffered many concussions and in the cycling, many crashes that caused eventually caused TBI for me. I have a support dog. And so I kind of know working through that process what it's like and what some of those red flags are that come up. But the ability to listen and to just support somebody and they would share their stories. And what we would do is every night we have a big barbecue. You can imagine we have 150, 200 people. We have a big barbecue and we'd have four or five people share their stories, and they would feel the love of everybody in that group because a lot of people could relate, a lot of people have their own stories, and so um I really saw that there was a healing process. One of the reasons why I started helping Heroes USA is I said a lot of money going into research, and that's good. You know, there's a lot of research going on, but we're educating, we're putting boots on the ground, we're affecting people that are on the front line, that can actually, you know, have relationships. I mean, I get asked all the time, I've got a uh a woman that's in the pro shop, a golf lot, and she's got a friend in Oregon. Well, one of the red flags was that this friend in Oregon is married for like 50 years and he lost his wife. And she can see him getting more and more depressed and slipping away. So she's working with him over the telephone, and it's just a really matter of staying in contact and then maybe trying to get him some local support. We talk about faith and we talk about bereavement, and loss of a loved one is a driver. Is that somebody could find themselves after 40, 50 years, they're totally alone. And a lot of churches, almost all churches in the United States, have bereavement forces. Or somebody could plug in, you know, and and get some like-minded people, people that are suffering through the same same things that relate. And so we encourage that. So a lot of what we do is just common sense, but it's really a matter of giving people some skills, telling them how to how to work through this process. And uh, and I think the most important thing is identifying the risk, how to start a conversation, and then how to get support if you need it, and not feel like you're the only one once you engage with somebody about this, that you're gonna be the only one that's gonna have to deal with that and talking to them, and not a champion through this. Interesting statistic is that 85% of people that are seriously thinking about suicide, once somebody gets involved and supports them, they don't, they fail.

SPEAKER_01:

Because you know, a lot of times when people become suicidal, it's not that they really want to die. Most, you know, do not want to die, they just want their pain to end. Right. And so when they get the right help and the right support, you know, that's where the magic can happen, right? For them, and that things can turn around. And that they will, and I think a lot of times it's also, you know, knowing for for somebody in that place to know that there are people out there caring about them and supporting them and champion championing them. Um that's what matters, you know, a lot is that I, you know, and then just knowing that there are people there who want to see them on the other side.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, one of our messages is that you're not alone. You're not alone and and and join us, and and we create um support angels. So these are people that that come to our symposiums and they just want to help, you know, they want to support people. I kind of liken them the same people that would go to a CPR class. You know, they know CPR in case they ever need it. They don't need it themselves, but we have people that come and they're just interested and they're um they want to know that they've got some tools and they're equipped. There's a lot of uh, for example, there's there's some things out there like don't start talking to somebody about suicide because you're gonna plant the seed. Well, that's not gonna happen. You know, um if you approach somebody and and you you know you think they're maybe at risk and you start talking to them a little bit and get it to work out. The other thing is not don't try to solve their problem. Don't try to take and be a problem solver. If they have the answer, I mean they they know they're overwhelmed, they don't see a way out, but deep down inside they might see a way out with a little support, a little help. So a good way to to handle that is to is to almost like an interviewer, is to ask them the questions. You know, what would help you get out of this depression? What could we do? Instead of saying, here's what I'm gonna do for you, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna get this out of you. Um also, you know, don't things like people saying, well, you know, and this is funny, it's not funny, but it's sad it happens, is that they'll say, Well, you know what, you're just thinking about suicide to get attention. And it's like, what? That's no, that's that's the wrong thing. You've got somebody that's got to a position where they can't see a way out, they think they're better off if they're not there. Um I'm in Palm Springs, and we're near the 29 Palms Marine Base, and we work with a lot of a lot of folks out there. And so what happens is a compounding effect of thing. So a scenario that happens a lot, you'll have somebody that's deployed, they come back, and maybe they've got PTSD, they're having a hard time finding a job, fitting in, then they get divorced, then they're in a child custody battle, and then they're maybe fighting with the VA to get their uh rating or things like that. So there's this compound of things that happens. We see this a lot. And um, so what do you do? So we have we have one guy that we're working with, and on the day that he was going to get the information about his, you know, the judgment on his custody battle, we just took him launch. We just hung with him that day. And I mean, it's just that kind of simple. You know, just so he's not at home, gets that information alone. Now, one of the things that that have your radar up is that firearms are that's the number one way that somebody will take their life, is with a firearm. So when you're working with veterans, first responders, law enforcement, there's a lot of firearms in that world. And there's a way that you can, you know, say, look, why don't you put this in a safe for a while and I'll hold a combination? Or maybe you can get that file away from them. Because those are the things that it becomes easy. Another thing is if you see somebody stop filing prescription drugs, that's another way that they'll be planning that suicide. Um, so a lot of these things they just resonate with people that were working, you know, in our audience. They're going, hmm, now I'm thinking about that. Uh the other thing is, I I you know, I talk to people about um people that are alone will talk to you, and they may come up and start talking to you and start a conversation, and you're thinking to yourself, why am I involved in this conversation? But then all of a sudden you realize like I might be the only person they talk to for a week. I learned this my my dad, my dad lived to be 90, my mom died at 75, and they were married like you know, 50 years. And um, I would go visit my dad, and then all of a sudden I would think he hasn't talked to anybody for three or four days. And I would realize that it helped me when that awareness happened, it helped me become a better listener, more compassionate listener. I'm gonna try to pass that on to people. Um, my dad would do things like every one he lived in Burbank, small town, and every Wednesday he would get his car washed, take his car home, put it in the garage, and you know, it would sit there. But it was his way to get out and have contact with people. So I would support him in that, you know. And you know, and and thing was like one of the other things he was um he had a couple of pensions, he had worked from Disney and retired out of Disney, and um, he would get his pension checks and different times, and he would go to the bank. And my sisters were encouraging him to get direct deposit, and I was like, you know what? That's a social event for him. That's a big event. You know, he gets dressed up a little bit, he gets in his car, he drives the bank, talks to everybody, maybe stop along the way. So um, people at different levels just to be compassionate and understand what's going on for them. And younger, we start seeing statistics now from age 10. There's a lot of bullying going on. There's a lot of yeah, not fitting at school, that kind of thing. You need to be aware, that's a serious thing. It's not something to slough off. You need to really support that child and you know, and and then on the senior level, we have people with chronic pain that the pain is too much, and uh how to how to deal with that. When we talk about the third phase, so the first phase is isolation, second depression, the third phase is drug and alcohol.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And you know, maybe going into depression, though, I know you mentioned earlier, people with who um have suicidal thoughts will get depressed. But another thing too to watch for is a sudden mood change, because sometimes what you'll see with people before they die by suicide is that they all of a sudden, if they've been very depressed, they all of a sudden become cheerful, happier again, kind of thing. And I'll say this in quotes here happier. Um, and it's because you know they've reached that point now that they already made that decision that, okay, this is what I'm going to do to finally take care of the problem, right? Which is a very short-sighted way, unfortunately, right? Because the thing about it is it's, you know, it's they they don't look at, you know, a lot of people lose that ability not to, you know, of course, we're not shaming anybody here, but a lot of people when they uh uh go into that dark place and start having uh suicidal ideations, they lose that focus of the bigger picture, right? Life just becomes very short-sighted. It's about just the here and now, and everything just kind of starts to seem like as if everything is just closing in. That long vision is just out the window.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, you're right. And sort of a happy cover-up of what the real problems are. You know, one of the things we talk about also is that uh you know, we're big on faith and believing what God's promises are. And um, you know, we we talk about it. One of the things in the Bible, you know, one of the things Jesus said was that, you know, don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow has enough trouble of its own to work on today. So one day at a time, and not be thinking about all this dominoes that can fall in the future that really overwhelm you. Things that are out of control, it could happen tomorrow, could happen next day, that kind of thing. So we talk about that a lot. We talk about God's promises for you, um, and the fact that you're going through it a time, you're not alone. You know, one of the things that was important to me is like when um they said when when you're going through, we're we're having when you're at a test, the teacher's not in the room during the test sometimes, right? You're just taking the test.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Sometimes you're going through these troubles in this test, and it's just believe for a better outcome. And you might feel disengaged from everybody and disenchanted from God. But the reality is it's just a test that you're going through, and it's a growth period. So we we work with encouragement. We want we don't want our organization to be like a downer organization. You know, we work with the fact that now somebody's in power, nobody have skills, they have tools, and they feel like they can approach the subject, get support, you know, and they know different outlets, and we give them different outlets on where they can go. We partner up with some um in California, there's these county coalitions uh that fund suicide prevention materials and things, and we partner up with them so that we have a place there for people. Um so there's a lot of that that what we're advocating, but I think the reality of what in a big picture, what I'm advocating and what our organization is about is that the more people that we can touch and the more people that we can equip, the more people that we get them aware that there's somebody out there that's at risk, and is I think is the way that we're gonna solve this by a community. You know, everything that's been done in the past, we still have an increasing rate of suicides. You know, the last couple of years we've had a 4% increase in suicide with women. And so I I don't know, I'm gonna say it's maybe the way we're approaching it doesn't work, but I think if we can arm the community, what I've seen when we've created a culture, a community, is a lot of support and a lot of ways to mitigate, you know, this terrible death by suicide. And that's one of the reasons why I founded Helping Heroes was I saw the direction was to put more boots on the ground, to me, seems like that's a strategy that'll win.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. Having that compassion and spreading hope is what I'm hearing a lot of this mission is trying to do is that with this outreach, whether it's first responders, veterans, having that community and providing that reach to people.

SPEAKER_00:

Here's the thing that's that's really heart-wrenching to me is when I I hear from somebody I wish I would have known, but if I only knew. And what's happened is somebody that's been close to them in their circle has had death by suicide, and they're carrying that. They carry that for 20, 30, 40 years. I'll hear from people where they've had a brother pass away like 40 years ago, and just say, If I only I just didn't know. And you're right. I mean, we don't get these skills, we don't understand how to work with people, how to identify when people are at risk. You're absolutely right. We don't get that anymore. So that's what part of our education process is. I really would like to be able to eradicate the fact that people say, if I only knew it, because there is a willing to willingness to help. I mean, the human spirit is to help and to reach out, but you just don't know. You don't have skills. And because you don't have the skills, you don't know, a lot of times you that's a barrier for you to start. You know, you don't understand what to do, so you don't do anything.

SPEAKER_01:

I think sometimes too, people they're not aware necessarily of what's going on. They don't know the signs, they've had some training in it or have learned about it somewhere to know what to look for. And I think sometimes too, people become afraid. Perhaps to ask. Another thing is much as people are really not taught about what goes on when a person becomes suicidal, is also how do you even start a conversation about it? You know, and I think a lot of people are not taught how do you ask somebody if they're okay in a way that where they feel like they're gonna feel safe, ask the question without you know, the other person getting offended or lashing out at them.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. So in our in our you know, symposiums and our workshops, and in my book, we've spent a lot of time on how to ask the question, how to approach the situation. And once again, it it comes from asking it from a caring position. You know, it if I you know, I just noticed, you know, maybe are you feeling okay? I just really care about you, as opposed to, you know, why are you acting like that? You know, it's just a difference. And yeah, there's a fear of rejection, but what's at stake is kind of worth it. If if somebody they just they they blow you off, they have a problem, you know, you you just might want to revisit it because they are at risk. And again, this just goes back to you have a fear, a fear of the unknown, of how somebody's gonna react. You're not sure. If we give you the skills, we talk about it, we do a little role-playing and things like that. And and it's just really a way to you know, you you may be fortunate, you may have some nobody in your world is thinking about it, you know. I mean, that's great. But on the other hand, you're gonna come across people in your world, and you're gonna realize what that behavior is, you're just gonna recognize the behavior. So, one of the things we talk about, we we we teach there's a cycle, it's called victim, persecutor, rescuer. Somebody gets deep, deep in the victim, you know, everything's happening, it's always down, everybody's doing this, and all of a sudden then they turn around and start lashing out at people. They become this persecutor, and then they feel bad because they've lashed out, and now they're rescuing people, which I'm sorry, and they're being overly nice to people. And so if you just recognize that sometimes, you know, the the victim one is a bad one. It's that they're they're just woe is me, it's always happening, everybody's doing this to me, why are they doing this to me? That kind of thought process is really tough. That just drives people down. So again, what what our main mission is not to create healthcare mental uh illness professionists. That's not what we want to do. We want to do is just give people the awareness and some tools to be able to work with somebody to help them get to a point. I mean, if you stayed with somebody that when they're gonna call 988, they're gonna call a suicide hotline. If you're there with them to support them just in case something was wrong on that call, you're there. They may not have the ability, the desire to pick up that phone, but if you can help them pick up that phone, you're there for that. So that's really what we're advocating. Those are the that's what we want to create. And we can think we can create a broad, broad network of folks out there that understand what's going on and have some skills to be able to help somebody.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's such a powerful thing to do for people and have that support available out there because as you said earlier, even one suicide is one suicide too many.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And to have that increase that we've seen, especially in women, and to have the statistics about suicide that we have right now, as much help and support that people can give and doing the work you're doing is so necessary.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we've been hired by the Association of Builders and Contractors, and we go to their facilities and do our workshops. Why? Because the construction industry has the highest rate of suicide for major industries. So there's a couple reasons why. I mean, guys are out there alone on their jobs sometimes. Alcohol and drugs are readily available, and there's a large population of those are veterans. So that industry alone we're focusing on uh the entertainment industry, the medical industry, those are some really, really high numbers of death by suicide. And um, you know, we're getting involved with associations and organizations that we go in there and bring our message and bring a message of hope into those organizations. So um, yeah, there's a lot by industry, there's a lot by age, uh, you know, a lot of statistics out there. Um, you know, we're seeing it at a younger age, we're seeing an increase in women. Uh in the elder section sector, we're seeing it more with chronic pain, you know, people just living with pain. Um, and that's true for a lot of veterans too. You know, they come back and they just have pain. Um, and there's financial problems, financial stress drives people.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So we we have, you know, we're an organization, our services are free. We have sponsors. Um, we actually have a couple of credit unions that involved us, and they are their kind of credit union that they give financial advice and workshops and those type things. So, in our resources of bringing together these things that maybe it's a driver, it's something that's driving a person and they don't have access to help, but we can get them help. And there's just some life events that cost people to go down this path.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm really proud of all the work that you are doing, and you're reaching out to so many people and have impacted so many people. Tell us a little bit about the book that you're writing. So it's called Silent Battle.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, no, it comes out, and I don't know the exact day, but it's coming out in October, and I just realized that October is tomorrow. But um, the the purpose of the book, it's it's sort of a how-to book. In other words, it has in there, like we talk about how to you know frame the conversation, how to start the conversation. We talk about a lot of examples, and there's what we have a lot of uh testimonies in there on how to realize that you know somebody's at risk. And then also what's the urgency of that they're at risk? You know, there's a system, there's like somebody's barely thinking about it, and you can work with them support. Somebody's like stockpiling drugs, they're you know, they've got a firearm or something like that. Well that's like you need to get help right away. You know, so there's a lot of a lot of information like that. And um yeah my heart really goes out to to people that are um in in the situation that are are living with somebody in the world that's suicidal and there there's no you know no help for them. And for them to get read our book see what things there are. There's actually checklists in there you can look at different things different items and and find out where to go um you know and we we have we have a section here about how PTSD and TBI and how that affects somebody you know so now you're working with somebody that's got some real mental health issues and they could have PTSD attacks and you're not aware of that, you know, you just might slough it off but uh how to get help with that how to deal with it. The PTSD attacks they run from mild to very severe and if you've got a family member or a friend or something that that's going on for them if you're aware of that it helps you be more compassionate and certainly understand that they're struggling with some things like TVI uh there's a lot of functionality that has slowed down memory loss. Uh I know for me in my football career I've had like seven concussions and cycling the last real bad cycling crash I had they just found me unconscious in the street and at that point the doctor they did their uh uh MRIs and things so you have some TBI and they recommended I got a sport dog and I did that and what what I noticed for myself was I couldn't remember phone numbers it's very frustrating I couldn't remember things I couldn't run people's needs and little things there's aggravating and um so there's ways to take and do some brain training and challenge yourself to to work through that if you realize that that's one of the things that yeah so there's there's ways to to work through it and um having some encouragement and people around you that encourage you to you know keep moving forward that's really important. Really important.

SPEAKER_01:

Now as you go through people's stories are there any stories that particularly stand out to you yeah there's there's some that I cash here they're just too I can tell you one story is that we were um we were on a bike ride and we were having our barbecue and one of the guys was it was a medic and he had just become a medic and gotten deployed and they were in an engagement and so what he said was as he was trained was to take and as there was casualties was always we'd go to the casualty and do an assessment you know turn them over check their pulse basically make sure they were they were dead before you moved on to somebody else and try to get the ones help that were save them I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

And one time he said he was on a road and there was a lot of casualties and he didn't check on one but he looked over and he saw this huge pool of blood and he figured this person's this person's dead but that night he started having this re this this guilt and this feelings of pressure that I should have checked him. Maybe I left somebody out there. And that just kept building up on him building up on him night after night after night and it got to the point where it was driving him starting suicidal because he could never get over the regret or guilt of not having checked that one person. It was just something that impacted so we have things like that that happened. I had um one story that uh a guy they were in they were in combat and he had a driver and he would get in a Jeep and they would drive out and check you know certain checkpoints and one day his commanding officer said I'm gonna go with you and so he got in the front seat of the Jeep shotgun and then I got in the backseat and um it's hard to say but his commanding officer actually got shot in the head and his head just came back on him. And he never had that guilt in saying you know I I I rode in that Jeep every day I should have been there. You know it was just that feeling a horrific thing that happened. And so we find that a lot of people have these reoccurring stories and events that have happened to them and they can't seem to break the cycle. And the only way they're going to do that is to to be able to share that and maybe through therapy to be able to continue to work through that. So if that's what you identify then as a support person then then maybe I can help you get professional help. Maybe I can outsource somebody for you you know to find out this is somebody you might like this is a guy that's a a vet you know something that'll that'll resonate. So those stories that that people have and I think the things or situations happen to them where they just they have huge financial loss they don't see any way out there's just no way out and they feel like everybody around me will be this is a hard one everybody around me would be better off if I'm not here because I'm causing everybody pain. And so that's a that's a dangerous thought process slippery slip.

SPEAKER_01:

Many people who've been um who've had suicidal ideations before that they just wanted to end the pain and they felt like just sticking around was too much of a hassle too much of a burden to others and you know and I think also though too you know when people have you know like when people've gone through like trauma you know and like for example veterans they've gone through things and have seen the worst of the worst of trauma there is out there I think for people who've not been in that position that they have to fully encapsulate everything. Same thing with first responders police officers go through at least twice as much they see twice as much trauma in a day than your average civilian you also have law enforcement and you have first responders mostly you know we have death by suicide.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes you're creating creating a situation where you know but but where a law enforcement agent finally has to shoot him and they end up killing him. And so that person had was intention their intention was to do that. But now you have an officer that's struggling with the fact that you know there's some officers that go through 20 years of service and never take out to have done it. You know I mean they just they're not in that environment then all of a sudden there's some that are in there and they've had a you know dislodger weapon and and they've actually killed somebody they have a hard time with that and you know need to be sensitive to it.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that that's also can cause you know a lot of that loneliness and isolation feeling too is that because it's such a unique situation for veterans for police officers you know that they feel like you know they're so far out in left field that it's hard.

SPEAKER_00:

You know and I think that leads you know like you were mentioning about isolation earlier I think that kind of all situation where people have had horrific things that they've been involved with whether it's it's you know for a lot of first responders coming up on a traffic ass saying that somebody's pinned in the collar that person fire that thing and they don't want to share it with their family. So they carry it they don't want to share it with people that are close to them. They don't want to share these horrific things that they've seen and that's where they need an outlet and that's where they need to be able to discuss it. And that's when they start to withdraw is because they've got this horrific thing but they they don't want to tell anybody about it. Um we had uh my church I was going to a church for a while up in uh in LA area and about the third in command would share with us things that never made it to the news that happened that would be either an explosion if they've isolated or somebody they isolated on a terrorist thing. And it was very hard he had to have somebody he could really trust to share those things with that wouldn't affect the person he was sharing them with but he would so at the time I was running the men's ministry at the church and we would have these conversations but it would never go to his family never go to his friends. That was the rules and I think that's that's important so that you understand that if somebody is sharing with you the confidentiality of that that you're not going to repeat that you know that's why I'm cautious on these interviews to which stories I share if I've got permission from somebody or not to use any names. Right you know we had a police chief that had death by suicide for some things that were going on with him. I'll never tell the city because then people would know.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure.

SPEAKER_00:

But it happens a lot and and he had just gotten involved in some things that he he was going to be dishonored and he just couldn't live with that anymore. And so that was another reason. So and you know and our message is is just really one of compassion listening and try to give people skills as many people as we can to give them skills to be able to interface with people and to let them know that the right thing to do is to be able to hand this person off and to be able to get them the kind of professional help they need we never imply that we're creating professionals we don't want to do that. We don't want somebody to think well they're the only ones that can fix this or support the person that we're encouraging or giving resources. And I think that's that's really my you know my message is to to if you can get engaged with us if you are in the space that you're thinking about uh going down that suicidal path that we're here to support you we're not judgmental uh something that we do um my website uh helpingheroesusa.org you can reach out to me reach out to our staff you know via email we do that a lot we get contacted with people want to keep things discreet and we're able to do that you know it's one of our pledges so where can people find you and how can people get a hold of your upcoming book well everything will be platform helping bureaususa.org okay the book will be everywhere you know at Amazon and Barnes and Nobles and all those kind of places when when it comes out and as far as getting a hold of us contact wise just go to the website and boom send us an email and we're right we're all over it well Tony I want to thank you for your time for coming on here today and imparting very important knowledge for people and providing a space so that people know that there's an outlet out there. I'd encourage anybody who's listening check out Helping Heroes USA please also remember if you are having very dark thoughts and are having ideations 988 is the number to also reach out to or go to your local emergency room what is one piece of encouragement or inspiration you can share with our listeners if the they may selves be feeling in a very dark place or know someone feeling in a very dark place I think one yeah one thing is that it you know it's it's one day at a time take one day at a time um when you think about all the overwhelming and things that could happen at the end of the day they're just gonna happen your life's really not going to change you need to work it out we'll just work through it stay with it have faith in God get down and pray a little bit and um reach out you know and pick the person you reach out to this is an important thing we talk about. You know in our world for all of us we have some people that we're gonna go to and tell them something and they're gonna tell us to suck it up right especially in the sports world especially in the the veteran uh first responder and but if you have somebody you can reach out to that always gives you support it's always been a friend it's gonna give you a little bit of that there that mother kind of attention maybe that's the person you're talking out with. And um don't be afraid to reach out it's not a sign of weakness it's a sign of being smart we all need to do it at some time in our life we all need to reach out and get some help from somebody on any kind of level and um and so that's that's really what encourage people when I'm working with is that the the world's not better off without you there's a lot of things going on without you you can think of those but to really be able to reach out get support um talk to people that that you care about and that you don't care about care about you. And whatever those problems are the worst case scenarios you can think of you're still going to be standing the next day. So whatever the whatever the you know whatever those things are when you're projecting a future loss and uh and that that's just how you know depending on the situation how we talk to people. So I'd say just encouraging people to to reach out and uh take it one day at a time take those problems with small bite sized problems.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you very much for that and yes it's one day at a time things will get better in the long run. Anybody who's thinking that they'll be better off gone plea I just want to just beg you please stay with us. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. I really appreciate