Filling Gaps in Leadership, in Healthcare, and in Dementia Care with Scott Tarde

In this episode Scott Tarde talks about how a lab breakthrough became a lifeline for families, and why immersive reminiscence, caregiver coaching, and data-driven collaboration can change dementia care. 

Tarde, is the CEO of the George G. Glenner Alzheimer’s Family Centers, emphasizes the significance of collaboration over competition in business, particularly in the healthcare sector.  He advocates for organizations to support one another and engage in meaningful discussions to foster community and transformation within healthcare. 

Tarde believes that there is ample opportunity for synergy among organizations, and that intentional conversations are crucial to prevent individuals from being left behind in the evolving landscape of healthcare.  He also covers the incredible innovative model that the Glenner Alzheimer’s Family Centers has implemented for dementia care and is now franchising nationwide as Town Square.   Join us, it is a great listen.

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Some Highlights
• Origins of Glenner Centers and caregiver-first mission
• Town Square immersive reminiscence model and design
• Virtual Glenner Care to upskill family caregivers
• Reducing ER visits and hospitalizations with coaching
• Franchising strategy with local adaptation and standards
• Data, EHR, and AI for trend spotting and prevention
• Leadership practices: expectations, accountability, consistency

Guest:  Scott Tarde, CEO of the George G. Glenner Alzheimer’s Family Centers

Host:  Chris Comeaux, President / CEO of Teleios

The Anatomy of Leadership podcast explores the art and science of leadership through candid, insightful conversations with thought leaders, innovators, and change-makers from a variety of industries. Hosted by Chris Comeaux, each episode dives into the mindsets, habits, and strategies that empower leaders to thrive in complex, fast-changing environments. With topics ranging from organizational culture and emotional intelligence to navigating disruption and inspiring teams, the show blends real-world stories with practical takeaways. The goal is simple yet ambitious: to equip leaders at every level with the tools, perspectives, and inspiration they need to lead with vision, empathy, and impact.

https://www.teleioscn.org/anatomy-of-leadership

Chapters

• 0:00 Origins Of Glenner Centers
• 2:13 Guest Intro And Credentials
• 5:03 Adult Day vs Memory Care Outcomes
• 8:42 Town Square And Reminiscence Therapy
• 15:35 Global Inspirations And Model Evolution
• 20:46 Supporting Caregivers Beyond The Center
• 25:35 Scaling Through Franchising
• 31:50 Cross-Pollination And Community
• 36:40 Standardization With Local Autonomy
• 42:20 Data, EHR, And Preventing Crises
• 48:30 Honoring Legacy While Driving Change
• 54:05 Open Minds: Partnerships And Evidence
• 1:00:40 Diversity, Programming, And Home Use

Transcript

Scott Tarde: 0:00

Dr. Glenner was a world-renowned research pathologist. He actually discovered the beta-amyloid protein, which, you know, by, you know, most considerations is the hallmark of Alzheimer's disease. Dr. Glenner and his wife Joy co-founded the Glenner Centers, which was really considered the first Alzheimer-specific day program in the nation in 1982. And it was really born out of the need of family caregivers. One particular that contacted Dr. Glenner in the middle of the night, who was contemplating taking his wife's life, who had Alzheimer's and his own.

Chris Comeaux: 0:36

How do you balance just honoring George Glenner's legacy while you push for new ideas and change? That's rare. Like some people just so venerate the past that they don't move forward.

Scott Tarde: 0:47

You know, my responsibility is to take those things from the legacy, right? And bring those to our to our team now and assemble a team, as we talked about, that shares that same passion, but at the same time challenge individuals. I like to refer to myself as the gap guy. I try to figure out, you know, things that are, you know, kind of in the gap. It's an incredible mountain to climb, but we're all on the same mountain. You know, let's just, you know, kind of help each other scale that mountain so we can help more people. I mean, it isn't it, and I know it's kind of a rhetorical question, and I try to say it, you know, to my team, but it's really just about helping people.

Chris Comeaux: 1:24

There's so much synergy left on the table in healthcare because organizations compete instead of collaborate. That just hit me like a lightning bolt. And you know, we believe in collaboration. We put it in our name, Teleios Collaborative Network. So why do you think collaboration is so rare in healthcare? And what do you think it's gonna take for us to shift that dynamic?

Scott Tarde: 1:43

And I just think it's gonna take more dialogues, and I know I referenced that earlier, but I think um it's it's gonna take finding an opportunities for people to really understand that, you know, competition, while I I do get it. Like I understand that, you know, that is part of, you know, business 101. Um more than anything, organizations can support each other and there is plenty left to do, and I think that's what strikes me every day.

Jeff Haffner: 2:13

Welcome to our crossover show with Anatomy of Leadership and TCNtalks. Now, here's our host, Chris Comeaux.

Chris Comeaux: 2:23

Hello and welcome. I am so excited today. Our guest is Scott Tarde. He's the CEO of the George G. Glenner Alzheimer's Family Centers. Welcome, Scott. It's so good to have you. Thanks so much, Chris. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna read from your bio and then I want to see if you feel like I left anything out. So, Scott Tarde is a licensed nursing home administrator as well as a residential care facility for the elderly administrator. He's been the CEO of the George G. Glenner Alzheimer's Family Centers since 2015. And prior to that, he served as a volunteer member of the Glenner Center's board of directors from 2013 to 2015. In fact, I was thinking, Scott, when I read that, I'm seeing more and more like board members getting recruited into CEO roles. Never thought about that as a talent pipeline before, but I think that's becoming a little bit more normal. Scott has an extensive operational background in multi-site management of skilled nursing facilities and of course assisted living communities. The original Town Square, immersive reminiscence therapy design concept for individuals with Alzheimer's disease and related dementias, ADRD is the actual abbreviation, and Glenner Care, which is actually trademarked the virtual support service for individuals with ADRD. Those are Scott's innovations, and we're gonna be able to talk about those hopefully. Scott graduated from the San Diego State University with a degree in psychology. So, Scott, anything I left out you'd want our listeners to know about you? No, Chris, I think that's plenty, but thank you so much.

Scott Tarde: 3:48

I appreciate it. Well, I did tell you I was gonna ask you this question, but what is your superpower? Uh, you know, and I love that question, Chris. I think when I think about superpowers, I think of, you know, uh from my standpoint is trying to build superstar teams. I think that's one of the things that I share, you know, with my team now that um it's really about, you know, figuring out ways to put people who kind of do their best work together, um, find things that they're passionate about. Um so if if anything, I've been very fortunate in my career to be able to uh discover, you know, if you will, individuals that have that passion and put them together.

Chris Comeaux: 4:26

That's so cool. You and I share that passion as well. I always loved that. Always my one of my heroes was Leslie Groves. A lot of people didn't really know who he was till the um the Oppenheimer movie, but he was the general of the Manhattan Project. He literally had rocket scientists working for him and to get those people working together. So I always kind of felt like he was uh behind the scenes. Most people don't know who he is, but some incredibly brilliant people. And depending upon what your you've what's your version of history, maybe one reason why we've not had any horrible wars and um, et cetera, et cetera. So, I love that example. Well, let's jump in because I have a lot I want to ask you about. The Glenner Center's really pioneered this concept of adult day services for individuals with Alzheimer's and dementia. How does your model differ from maybe the traditional memory care, home-based support? And also, if you just weave in, what kind of outcomes have you guys seen for maybe patients and their caregivers?

Scott Tarde: 5:21

Yeah. You know, I think the thing for us about the Glenner Centers is that uh it has really an unparalleled origin story, right? So, Dr. Glenner was a world-renowned research pathologist. He actually discovered the beta-amyloid protein, which, you know, by you know most considerations is the hallmark of Alzheimer's disease. And so um, if you think about an individual who has obviously this incredible brilliance and passion for research, um, discovering this kind of critical piece of Alzheimer's disease, essentially being well known in the community for this for his work and being called upon to find ways to support family caregivers. So, it's this really interesting kind of what you wouldn't think of kind of a parallel, um, but it ended up being so, where Dr. Glenner and his wife Joy co-founded the Glenner Centers, which was really considered the first Alzheimer-specific day program in the nation in 1982. Um, and it was really born out of the need of family caregivers. One particular that contacted Dr. Glenner in the middle of the night, um, who was contemplating taking his wife's life, who had Alzheimer's and his own. So we know that that's a all too often, you know, heard story of, you know, overwhelmed family caregivers. Um, and, you know, obviously a cry for help. They were able to stop that from happening. And really the next day, they went on this incredible journey of developing the Alzheimer's family centers, obviously to support individuals with Alzheimer's disease and related dementias, you know, 40 plus years ago, but really to support family caregivers, to truly provide that respite, um, not necessarily residential placement, which is totally fine. There's a time and a place for that, but really being able to support family caregivers so that they could keep their loved ones at home longer and provide that support and care and education and knowledge that really family caregivers are looking for.

Chris Comeaux: 7:23

That is so cool. And I mean, you kind of alluded to the outcomes, but are there um is there other outcomes that just paint the picture of your success that would be worth sharing?

Scott Tarde: 7:31

Well, I think, you know, more than anything, when you talk about outcomes when it comes to individuals living with dementia, um, you're you're talking about having an opportunity to engage and socialize in ways that um you're just not probably going to get at home, as wonderful as family caregivers are. Um, you know, having an opportunity to go into a kind of a congregate setting and be able to connect with peers and engage and engage in activities. I mean, we know, Chris May, family caregivers are amazing, but they're doing it 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They have their own lives to live. They didn't necessarily know that they were going to become family caregivers, right? Especially when you're talking about spouses, adult children, things like that. They, they've they've obviously have their own obligations and responsibilities. So, to be able to provide an environment that has these types of impacts, I mean, those are the outcomes that I think, you know, we're we're most interested in seeing. Obviously, supporting the individual with dementia, uh, clinical outcomes, reduced falls, things like that. I mean, those are all very important. But interestingly enough, it's those components of social engagement uh that I think are really the most valuable.

Chris Comeaux: 8:41

Well, let's go more into that. So, the Glenner Town Square model, if I understand it correctly, is you correct me. So, it recreates like a 1950s setting. And the idea is it's triggering probably long-term memories. How did how did you find that approach? I mean, what inspired it? Um, and then I I think is the term the power of reminiscence is like a maybe a coin term, like how that helps in dementia care?

Scott Tarde: 9:04

Yeah, absolutely. So, uh a couple components, Chris, to consider. So, if you kind of take, kind of go back in time about 10 years, um I had come across through my daughter, uh, who was in fifth grade at the time, uh, she's now, you know, almost 21. Um, but she uh went to a place called BizTown. And uh BizTown's here in San Diego. It's put on by junior achievement. Uh it's a little city inside of a building. Obviously has nothing to do with dementia, nothing to do with the 1950s, 1960s, but very inspiring, right? Because the, you know, environment, uh I like to say environment matters, space matters. Um, and so, you know, she came home raving about it. And so, one of myself and one of my colleagues went to see it. Um, and really the rest was kind of history. We uh from there kind of went to work. I sketched out what I thought would be um an environment that consisted of multiple storefronts, things like a movie theater, a diner, a museum, a library, uh, a barber and beauty shop, uh, a little blue house, which is reminiscent of our original center, uh, a pub, you know, places that, you know, people would go to in kind of, you know, Main Street USA. Um and I think from there, uh things move fast. So, we were able to create in this environment that really focuses on where people's strongest memories are. Chris, most of our participants are in their early 80s, uh, you know, folks that come to CR Center. So, if you kind of do the backwards math, reminiscence therapy says that people make their strongest memories between the ages of about 10 and 30. So we wanted to create an environment uh that was reminiscent of where their strongest memories are. Um so again, that math kind of computes to the 1950s, 1960s. Now, I will tell you that uh people always ask us, right, well, what happens in the future? And until, you know, dementia and Alzheimer's are, you know, eradicated from the from the planet, which we hope will, you know, happen at some point. Um, I always say that uh my town square is going to need a blockbuster and a video arcade, right? So, you know, things will be updated in the future. But the impact that these storefronts have is really incredible because they are so powerful to individuals because they are familiar to them.

Chris Comeaux: 11:26

That's incredible. You um, I think I mentioned this to you the first time you and I met. I had my first sabbatical in 30 years last year, and my field trip was to a good friend, the center of hospice in South Bend, Michaelka, Indiana, and they have Milton Village, and it's uh uh exactly what you described. Um, you and I were talking in the green room. The place in Netherlands that had the dementia village inspired right some of the this idea as well. Is that is that correct? Or maybe is it more incidental than actually directly correlated?

Scott Tarde: 11:55

You know, you're right. It it was incidental. I was definitely familiar with it. Uh you're referring to De Hogave, which is in which is in the Netherlands. Um, in fact, uh I've been uh in the same place at the same time with the co-creator of the De Hogave. His name is Eloy Van Heel, and um, you know, I think uh incredibly innovative. Now they are a uh now I've not been there, but they are a residential facility. Uh, you know, they have some really unique and innovative um components, including like a dining room that's shared with the community as a whole, which you know, so some really unique things that uh, you know, maybe are more Europe-specific than they than we would find in the United States. But um, but to your point, I mean, love seeing these models, love seeing things that, you know, kind of uh, you know, break through some of these kind of barriers of traditional care, because I think people are looking for different options.

Chris Comeaux: 12:53

Yeah, that's incredible. My favorite memory of so they kept telling me they had a surprise for me. So, I got to go to Milton Village on my field trip on that last day, and they were kind of secretive. And so, long story short, what I got to witness in Mick Meshawaka, South Bend is where the Studebaker Museum and when they manufactured Studebakers. So, they had a garage and they were delivering a Studebaker for the dementia participants to be able to tinker with. And I got to take a really cool picture in the convertible Studebaker, and so that was just super cool. Made a great memory. Who knows? Maybe that'll be a memory for me many, many, many, many years from now. Absolutely. So obviously incredible ways that you're supporting these patients that are dealing with dementia. How about the caregivers? Like, are there ways that obviously having the that service is an incredible support to them, but are there other ways that you sustain them in their caregiving journey?

Scott Tarde: 13:45

Well, it's interesting that you mentioned that, Chris, because I think what's what you know, my journey has been, you know, over almost 30 years, you know, serving individuals with dementia, family caregivers. So, um I like to refer to myself as the gap guy. I try to figure out, you know, things that are, you know, kind of in the gap because there are so many wonderful organizations doing so many wonderful things. And I I really don't want to duplicate services. I want to complement services and find those synergies. And um I'm always really passionate about that. And one of the things that we determined was that there really was a missing component outside of these centers, if you will. So, yes, family caregivers bring their loved ones to our centers, have that respite care Monday through Friday, 845 to 515, great, right? But what about all the other hours of the day? Yeah. So, we in 2020, uh right before, interestingly enough, the pandemic, we we launched a program called the uh Glenner Care. And so Glenner Care is designed to be a virtual dementia care service, really powered by social workers. And the goal there is to avoid unnecessary hospitalizations and emergency room visits. And the way we do that is we focus on upskilling family caregivers. And so what I mean by that is we're working with family caregivers in times of non-crisis, if you will, to make sure that um they're better equipped so that they don't have to go to the emergency room, that they don't have to go to um the hospital or an urgent care. Again, wonderful resources, not really appropriate for individuals with dementia. It's just not, it's for so many reasons. Um, you know, hospitals do incredible work, but um they're not designed to deal with individuals with dementia. They're designed to save lives and deal with emergencies or more chronic long-term conditions. So this has been incredibly impactful. One of the things that we've seen, and we were talking about outcomes, is we've seen that reduction in hospitalizations, we've seen that reduction in emergency room visits, and we're really uh figuring out ways to better support family caregivers, which quite frankly keeps their loved ones in their home longer. And I think that extends the runway to avoid, let's just say, premature residential placement. Again, wonderful partners in assisted living and in nursing homes, but reality is if we can avoid that or at least prolong staying in the home, I think most people would prefer that. I think even professionals in assisted living and nursing homes would say, hey, yes, we're here, but we're here when it's right. And so, I think the same thing is true with a program like the Glenner Centers and a complimentary program like Glenner Care.

Chris Comeaux: 16:28

Wow. So, do you have people that maybe just partake of the Glenner Care, but they aren't necessarily in your adult daycare, and then vice versa? Or is it always like a complete package?

Scott Tarde: 16:38

We've done both. We've done actually some uh pilot programs for uh Medicare Advantage plans, uh, which has uh been very, I think, interesting in a lot of ways. Great outcomes, but also trying to figure out how to complement managed care plans, which you know, they have you know their complexities and they have their own kind of focus and program. So again, trying to figure out the best synergies between our organization and managed care. So, we've seen good outcomes there. And then of course, uh, we include that in our in enrollment in our program. So that's an automatic kind of uh, you know, benefit, if you will, of attending the program. And so, we'll give families a little time to acclimate and then we'll start working on uh upskilling and supporting them uh virtually as well. Okay.

Chris Comeaux: 17:24

Man, this is just so innovative. I was uh when I got back from my sabbatical last year, I my second son works in hospice. He's in his young 20s. And he just looked at me and said, Dad, I'd love to be part of that, something like that one day. And he because he's uh he's his title is a care advocate. So, you imagine as a hospice care advocate, he sees the gaps in the system. I love your term about kind of the gap filler. Yeah. And it just I already kind of was pretty excited about what you're doing, but seeing it through a young person's eyes who's out on the front lines of healthcare, I think you're on to something incredible. So, have you find found ways to scale this thing? How do you replicate it, bring it to other communities, and make what are the challenges and opportunities that maybe you are seeing or maybe you're foreseeing that you're gonna be dealing with doing that?

Scott Tarde: 18:09

Absolutely. Well, I think when it comes to um scaling, you know, it's an it's been an interesting journey, but exciting at the same time because, you know, with a nonprofit organization, you know, there are inherent challenges of scaling and, you know, capital acquisition and things like that, which we understand. I mean, that's that's part of the landscape of running a nonprofit and driving, you know, a mission, which is to keep rates and services as affordable and accessible as possible. Um, but at the same time, you know, in all reality, it takes money to bring these programs to different communities. So um we were very fortunate to partner uh with uh an organization uh that was really innovative in its own approach to home care. Uh, and that organization is Senior Helpers. And Senior Helpers is a very large uh non-medical home care company. Uh understand they have like 400 locations in 45 states. And so one of my board members uh chair at the time uh was a franchise owner of Senior Helpers and introduced me to the CEO of Senior Helpers, Peter Ross, who uh became a fast friend and a wonderful partner. And uh his vision was to try to create um a franchise model of Town Square. Um, so we did that uh back in 2018, 2019. And so now Town Square exists as a franchise as well. So, we do our locations, obviously, in San Diego, and now there's franchise opportunities across the country. So, there are now 11 locations open and operating. So everywhere from Florida to New Jersey, Texas, Washington State, uh, you know, South Carolina. So, it's exciting to see these locations opening. But you know what's the most exciting thing, Chris, is you know, Scott doesn't know anything necessarily about those different, you know, cities and areas. I've traveled through some of them, obviously, but we know all the healthcare is local. And I know that's a cliche, but it really is true. Um I agree. But the reality is that, you know, to have independent owners and operators that um, you know, want to bring this to their community and do it through a franchise model so that there are those standards and there are that that knowledge and know-how, um, it's been to me goosebump amazing because we've been able to see the replication of Townsquare in these communities through that model. And, you know, if you would have asked me in 2017 when uh 2018 when Town Square here in San Diego opened, how many we could have, uh I I couldn't even tell you, Chris. I mean, it might have been one more or two more, you know, because it was really a labor of love for our organization to open just one. Um, but now I can honestly tell you, I mean, it could be a hundred, it could be two hundred, you know, locations. And that's the game changer because most day programs don't really exist in especially specifically for Alzheimer's disease, don't exist in most communities. So that's what, you know, fuels my passion more than anything now is to see the legacy that the Glenner Centers have, you know, be able to be expanded through the throughout the country.

Chris Comeaux: 21:18

That's incredible. Have you gotten cross-pollination, Scott, where all of the different locations the reason why I asked that question. So, our Teleios Collaborative Network, we have 24 hospices now all over the country. And maybe the thing that has probably made me just smile the most is watching the cross-pollination of these different programs sharing with each other. It's like that essence of synergy, right? You're one plus one is equaling five. Have you seen some of that? Or is that still like the early stages part for you guys?

Scott Tarde: 21:48

It's it it's the perfect question, Chris. And it's definitely happening. I mean, you're you're seeing owners speak to each other, you're seeing the Townsquare franchising kind of support team, if you will, um, sharing best practices, um reaching back to the Glenner team and you know, thankful to have the opportunity to share things over our last 40 years of experience. So yes, it's the model, but then it's everything else, right? I mean, because the magic really happens, you know, within the centers, you know, and and they just become, you know, a place where family caregivers can come and get the support. But more than anything, Chris, and I know you appreciate this too, it's the sense of community. You know, it's the sense of understanding that people un really do appreciate what you're going through. It's, you know, it's a safe place. It's a place where they're not judged. It's a it's a place where people understand what it is they're going through. So, you know, that is to, and I love when you said, you know, that kind of cross-pollination of ideas and um understanding what support groups mean to organizations, um uh family caregiver training programs, you know, what that looks like. So so again, there's the care in the center, which not minimizing at all. I mean, that's obviously a huge part of it, but it's kind of everything else, if that makes sense. I mean, it's just all these other components that, you know, are really the almost the unexpected outcomes, but now expected.

Dragonfly Health: 23:14

Thank you to our Anatomy of Leadership sponsor, Dragonfly Health. Dragonfly Health is also the title sponsor for Leadership Immersion courses. Dragonfly Health is a leading care-at-home data, technology, and service platform. With a 20-year history, Dragonfly Health uses advanced technology and robust analytics to manage durable medical equipment and pharmaceutical services as part of a single efficient solution for caregivers, patients, and their families. The company serves millions of patients annually across all 50 states. Thank you, Dragonfly Health, for all the great work that you do.

Chris Comeaux: 24:01

That is so good. And what I love about that, um, you know, it's been so interesting in the hospice industry. I whenever I joined in uh 1995, 75% were nonprofits, 25% far-profits. It is now flip-flopped. And uh, no, not all far-profits are bad, but some of the scaling is like here's remember that Henry Ford quote? You could have you could have a Model T in any color as long as it's black. And I think sometimes franchises are kind of like, it's kind of that way, right? You can kind of have the one flavor. It's very, you know, why do you love your local store? It's got so much variety and so much creativity. Right. And I and that's kind of what I feel like we've tried to do in the work we're doing in Teleios. These local hospices, there's some credible uniqueness. So, we're not trying to create cookie-cutter Walmart hospices. And I'm getting the sense you're doing the same thing, which is interesting to call it a franchise because I think that makes you a little bit of a unicorn franchise in some respects. Am I reading that wrong?

Scott Tarde: 24:57

Or no, I appreciate that. And I certainly think that's Peter's vision as well. I mean, there's that local community that that's in each one. So, yes, the, you know, kind of the design, if you will, um, you know, kind of the the uh experience that is Townsquare and the use of reminiscence therapy, specifically immersive reminiscence therapy, that's certainly part of kind of the brand standard. But I think it's everything else, right? It's the local ownership, it's understanding where um kind of the pain points of that community are. Um, it's trying to figure out where, again, there's gaps. And so to your exact point, which was perfect, um, you know, there really is an opportunity to create kind of that local impact and have kind of that um uh creativity and innovation on their own with their teams in those locations, but still keep the best practices and those components of the franchise and the kind of the brand together. I mean, I think that's kind of to me the best of both worlds because nobody wants to, you know, necessarily open up a business and not feel like they're able to have that, you know, autonomy to be able to help their local community. I appreciate that. But at the same time, um, you know, take the best practices, not necessarily have to reinvent the wheel. I think that's a big component of, you know, engaging with the franchise is that you have all of those kind of core components um, you know, essentially already identified and you have those as resources.

Chris Comeaux: 26:27

That is so well said. Man, we could do a whole nother podcast just doing a one chasing that rabbit, because there there's an article in Harvard Business Review that I'm gonna forward to you after this call. It's in my top five ever Harvard Business Review. I came in a hospice from the from industry, KPMG, Pete Marwick, or Fortune 50 company. So I kind of grew up in manufacturing during the time of the beginning of robotics and standardization and uh lean-based thinking, et cetera, et cetera. Six Sigma. And so I fall into hospice and these nurses are like, young man, this is all art. And I'm like, Yeah, but and and because I was raised in process. And when I found this Harbor Business Review article, the title was When Process Becomes Art, it was like literally the skies open, the angel sang, it came down on a little tablet to me, and I'm like, this is what I was looking for. And it reconciled what you're talking about. And the interesting thing is that's been really the road less traveled for organizations. I just got my first Tesla. I love my Tesla because I customized it to me. And so, they have figured out the science of there's standardization and there's customization and there's art. And again, I knew I loved you the first time I met you because my guess is we're kind of jiving on a lot of these concepts that are very unique, actually, especially in healthcare. I feel like some of our brothers and sisters in the health system realm are doubling down on you could have it in any color as long as it's black. Right. And there shouldn't be nothing that's more personalized than healthcare. Absolutely. And and then the sacred ground that you're walking on with dementia care. So, I'll get off my soap. Bye.

Scott Tarde: 28:02

No, thank you, Chris. I appreciate it. And feelings mutual. And I mean, I we we share that passion for, you know, obviously organizations, healthcare, and just the that leadership component. And it's, you know, it I feel like there's just so much of that that is continues to be needed. And um, you know, and it and it really makes a difference, you know, when you're talking about the impact in healthcare.

Chris Comeaux: 28:23

Well said. Well, well, definitely want to ask you a futuristic question. They don't want to get to some leadership questions because I know that you and I just uh share that similar passion. So we know the dementia rates are gonna continue to rise, um, unfortunately. Hopefully we will find that cure that you alluded to. But unfortunately, a lot of the statistics show that we're gonna keep it's gonna be more and more. So, what do you see as that next frontier? Like new technology, community integration? Like what are those next things that you guys are thinking about that people could be looking forward to potentially?

Scott Tarde: 28:56

Yeah, I think a lot. I think a lot of technology um, you know, is is trending, we know, in a direction. I mean, certainly we know about the use of AI and so many things, but I think what it ends up end being is, and and you'd appreciate this, Chris, I like to refer to a lot of what we do at Glenner as high touch and low tech. Um so, you know, I think you can't replace some of the components of kind of the humanistic piece. You still need individuals that understand individuals. You still need to be able to talk through things. But I do think that you can um identify trends. And uh I'm also equally, as much as the gap guy, I'm also a a little bit of a data junkie. And I like to see the data. And um, and I think um my team knows that I say all the time uh numbers tell the story. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a good or a bad story, it just means that it tells a story. So, I think when you're talking about use of things like the electronic health record and being able to essentially take information. That uh clinical and social work staff put in. So, for example, with Glenner Care, we developed our own uh EHR system. And so where we're going, because quite frankly, because I couldn't find anything that that uh you know made sense for our space. And so again, a lot of great products out there, but just not what Scott was looking for. So, where we're going, I think, and where you know Townsquare franchising is going as well, is trying to create um an opportunity for the use of documentation in like an electronic health record to be able to pull trends. So if you have certain clinical information that's put in, I think the use of technology and AI can analyze that because it's taking all of this information of typically hundreds of individuals that we're serving and also family caregivers and being able to analyze that information to be able to create interventions and ideally interventions that prevent certain events. Again, back to hospitalizations, emergency room visits, crisis for the family caregivers. So, I think that's the biggest opportunity personally is taking information that we're already gathering. But again, you can appreciate because if there's all this information there, then what do we do with it? Because you're not going to go through individual records. You have to be able to take certain benchmarks and then take that information and create almost like dashboards for staff to say, oh, there's an issue, there's something that's flagged. And I know some of that exists already, but I think we need to take more information that we're gathering from home and then gathering from our centers or at least a place where care is provided and have those things talk to each other. Because I know it's overused, but there's so much siloing that still goes on. So, it's like, well, if we knew this, well, yeah, but we did know it, but it was in another system, and we couldn't capture it. So, systems have to talk together so that we can have better outcomes. I am a firm believer that we have the information. Um, you know, there's there's up times when, you know, there are again gaps where maybe information is not collected. For the most part, it is collected, but what do you do with the information?

Chris Comeaux: 32:06

Yeah. That is so good. I've I started keeping stickies with incredible guests like you, and I start getting ideas. I have like 10 stickies in front of me right now, just listening to you. So, there's so much great stuff here. Well, I do want to get to the leadership part too. So, you obviously lead an organization just founded on just deep compassion and innovation, which again, I feel like that's why you and I click so well the first time we met. How do you balance just honoring George Glenner's legacy while you push for new ideas and change? That's rare. Like some people just so venerate the past that they don't move forward. So, talk about that.

Scott Tarde: 32:42

Yeah, thank you for that, Chris. I mean, obviously, you know, I never had a chance to meet Dr. Glenner, um, but I knew and and spent so many, you know, so much time and years with Joy Glenner, um, who was uh, you know, co-founder. And, you know, we just lost her recently, but she was, you know, not only an innovator, but she was incredibly um motivated and passionate to support family caregivers. So, you know, talking about talk about sharing, you know, kind of a passion, we shared that passion. So, I take, I think, you know, my responsibility is to take those things from the legacy, right, and bring those to our, to our team now and assemble a team, as we talked about, that shares that same passion, but at the same time challenge individuals, especially when they're focused on one component. So, for example, I have an education department, I have a social work department, I have a volunteer department, right? So, I have all these departments, but it's bringing these leaders and asking them to not only do what they do best every day and run their department, but where are the opportunities? Where are the things that they can innovate? Where are, you know, what is the community telling us and what are the things that they're looking at that they, you know, they see are missing. I think, you know, and again, I know it's a cliche, Chris, and I've said a few of them, but the signs are everywhere. You just have to be able to see them. I mean, I've I've often said that, you know, if you walk around a facility, you'll see things, right? That that the staff may or may not have told you. But if you look at certain things, you know, close enough, they'll tell you what needs to be addressed, right? They'll tell you what doors need to be open or unlocked, you know, those kinds of things. So being observant, being intentional about trying to develop things, um, I think is absolutely critical to being able to balance the kind of the past and then bring things to the, to the, to the to the future. Um, but really trying to challenge, you know, the teams to make uh those strides, I think is is the most critical component. And I like to say a lot that, you know, CEO, very nice. I appreciate and respect my role, but it's really more about being setting a vision. So, I like um, you know, I know uh Chris, you probably you know come across, you know, uh Simon Sinek, you know, and he talks about being the chief vision officer. And I feel that. I very much feel that. And I I want to help set a vision because I also know my team has a vision. So, let's find those opportunities and make those things happen.

Chris Comeaux: 35:12

That's so good. Did I ever tell you the story about um the Teleios logo? If I told you the story the first time we met, again, I I'm like, we're just so clicking here. Um, one of my favorite authors is Jim Collins, and everybody remembers Good to Great, but the first book was built to last, or the one that became popular, I should say. And so, if you remember, one of the core principles in that book, he said that organizations are built to last over decades. So, think about your history, think about the history of the hospices. I'm working with 40, 50 years of history. The core one of the core principles was preserve the core, stimulate progress. And the actual because he's so good of like visual words like hedgehog concept, you know, right people on the bus, right seat in the fr in the in the good to great. Well, this one was a hurricane, all this change swirling about, and then the middle there's a somewhat unchangeable core. But just like the eye of a hurricane, even that core can shift over time. And it so it creates like this almost solar system with all this change kind of swirling about. So, we believed in that so much. If you look in our TCN triangle, there's a swirl and then another triangle in the middle. And it even kind of like if depends upon which one we use, it looks like it might move in the middle. And he was teaching a beautiful principle that I you just articulated perfectly. Um, and we believe so much in it, we put it in our logo.

Scott Tarde: 36:31

So yeah, doesn't surprise me, Chris. I mean, again, I mean, that's the when you have that passion, I mean, it really does fuel everything.

Chris Comeaux: 36:38

So that is so good. Well, and another thing that just clicked the first time we met, you'd recently attended a conference I never heard about, but the title was like so intriguing, the open minds conference. And so did a little bit of research, and apparently it showcases like cutting-edge models and behavioral and cognitive care. And so coming out of that, like did you get a lot of affirmation for your model, but do you also get new ideas, and did it challenge your thinking?

Scott Tarde: 37:04

Well, it it did, and I was so honored to be invited. So um, Chris, the the backstory, just super quick on on open minds. We actually um were very honored. I mean, as a San Diego State alumni, I anything that I can do with SDSU, I'm all about. So, um I was uh part of a few of organizations that helped to establish uh the Center for Excellence and Aging Longevity at San Diego State, which was led uh by a whole team, including um the uh lead professor, Dr. Steve Hornberger. So, he was the one that uh invited me uh to open minds because they actually help create uh a whole track uh within that conference. And so, my opportunity there was to talk about uh partnerships in community and and again, uh gaps, uh go figure, in communities and and where organizations can you know better connect. And so, I was on a panel with uh several uh colleagues, some that I knew and some that I had just met. And we had this incredible conversation, because which you would have loved, which we just talked about how organizations can come together and work closer, you know, together by just talking, just sitting down and sharing. And and even in that hour presentation, I mean, so many ideas happened, so many discussions points happen that, and it was a lot of like, wow, we didn't realize you were doing that. Oh, okay, well, let's talk about that, you know, exchanging numbers after. So, I know like we were talking about technology, and there's so many wonderful things to do with technology, but there is still, you know, this huge, and it  worries me a little bit, right? Because people need to sit down and talk. They need to network, they need to engage, they need to figure out, you know, I know it things are easy, you can search anything and find anything. But the reality is that most of these relationships, um, you know, it's still very old school in developing those relationships. So, I actually walked away more with that than anything else, of just how important it is to keep dot conversations going and identify partners within your community.

Chris Comeaux: 39:17

That's a I mean, that's profound for you to say that, given the type of conference it is. And I like you, I have a lot of interesting, um I'm a huge uh adapter, utilizate utilizer of AI, also a little concerned about what it means when you think you've mastered a subject, when you just hit a chat GPT and you read it and go, now I'm a nurse. I've I just did the chat GPT thing. No, I'm sorry. There's something you can't replace with years of experience. Yes. Um, I think it's gonna be a very interesting time of the the that gap between reading something and true understanding of something is gonna be an interesting kind of uh path as we go forward in the future. But I imagine it as far as like models, right? Since it was kind of about cognitive care, behavioral care, was there any like future innovations or things of like, hmm, that's interesting. So, we're gonna think we're gonna think about something we're doing differently.

Scott Tarde: 40:10

Well, I mean, definitely conversations. There was a managed care plan there uh on the panel and you know, talking about the ways that they analyze data and uh ways that they're using that information to identify partners, right? So, this this was a a real telling part of the discussion because um, again, when you're able to show evidence-based outcomes, and we know that another one of those terms that's used a lot in healthcare, but it really matters, right? I mean, we know already that you know many consumers are making decisions really just based on, you know, um, you know, quite frankly, surveys and, you know, um uh inspections, right? So, we know that there are enough decisions being made in healthcare that are just based on, you know, I I say objective information. But then there's this whole component of just trying to figure out how we can use the data to to really show some of the and I'll say it like we talked about before, Chris, the financial outcomes as well. Because, you know, a lot of these, you know, organizations are looking to how to maximize dollars. They have, you know, it's population health, it's you know, managed care. And I understand it and respect it. I think we all do, but you have to be able to use information to be able to go back to these partners and say, let me show you what these outcomes look like. You know, let me show you what we're able to do. It's in my opinion, Chris, it's not enough to just have a service. You actually have to be able to show what those outcomes of those services are. Um and I think that, you know, if if you respectfully, if you don't have that within your organization, you're gonna miss a lot of opportunities because people are, you know, leaders are looking for that.

Chris Comeaux: 41:50

That's really good. The other thing I wanted to ask you about the um, you know, we talked about this earlier, the town square concept and the 1950s style environment. Did anything kind of push your thinking from this conference on that? And maybe I could ask it a little bit better. It never occurred to me when like the with the math behind that, like your best memories in the 30s. And then, of course, probably facilities. I don't know this as well as you, but there's probably some rhythm of updating that you have to do. I mean, you manage facilities in the past, right? As a nursing administrator, one of the first things typically you have to do is refresh the physical plan of the facility. So, does your um does your interior designer have a really easy job because you go from the 50s to the 60s to the 70s? Pretty much. Three 10 years?

Scott Tarde: 42:32

Yeah, I mean, that's exactly right. I mean, I think, you know, a couple components there. I mean, yes, on the design, we've had lots of conversations really about when, you know, when do we go from, you know, the 50s music and then push more into the Beatles in the 60s, and then, you know, when does it become Pink Floyd, you know, in the 70s and those kinds of things, right? So I mean, it's definitely a discussion that we're having. Um, but I think, I think, you know, interestingly enough, um, and I'm really proud of this, Chris. I think, you know, yes, it's 50s and 60s design. Um, and again, you know, some of those things are timeless, right? I mean, a diner is gonna survive all the decades, right? We people still love going to diners and, you know, I mean, those again are rather timeless. But I think it's, you know, what's really interesting and what we've taken away, um, and a and uh we see this in a lot of the conferences, including open minds, is trying to figure out ways to capture all the diversity that's out there. Um, you know, and obviously we there's such wonderful diversity in our country, and um it's one of the make one of the things that makes our country amazing is is you know having that diversity. And so, you know, here in in in San Diego and actually in Chula Vista, which you know is really incredibly close to the border, right? I have many staff members that travel from Tijuana to work in our location in Chula Vista. So how do we capture all of those, you know, cultural components and capture that diversity in our centers? And I think we do it by programming. You know, we create specific activities and programming. I think there's a full opportunity in the in the future to take more technology to be able to share and even have those programs that we have in the centers be able to be tr uh transferred, if you will, or um adaptable to home so that family caregivers can use some of that programming in at home as well. It goes back to the upskilling of family caregivers. So, so, you know, I think for me, it's all about using, you know, all of the components that we've talked about today, whether it's technology, whether it's leaning into the diversity, whether it's figuring out ways to show how the outcomes uh, you know, really impact what we're doing. But um, it's not just one thing, it's all of those things.

Chris Comeaux: 44:39

That's so cool. Well, um when I was doing the research on open minds, I noticed sustainability is a big word that they use. We talk about no margin, no mission all the time. You know, that came from the wonderful nuns in healthcare, Catholic health systems. So balancing mission and margin, how do you keep the Glenner model financially viable, but still maintaining that high quality? How do you bring that into leadership with your staff?

Scott Tarde: 45:03

I mean, I'm not gonna be uh, you know, soft about this because it's it's tough. It's you know, things are expensive, things keep getting more and more expensive. Um, quite frankly, the cost of talent is expensive. And I'm I'm all about making sure that we're paying not only a livable wage, but a professional wage to our staff. I mean, wanting to see people make a profession out of the work that we do, not just you know a steppingstone or just like, hey, this is kind of an entry level. I mean, these are professionals. These are individuals that are taking care of people with arguably one of the most difficult, you know, diseases, you know, to manage, you know, again, on the planet. So um, so leaning into all of that, I think what I I like to say is this is our call to action, right? If we're going to keep things affordable and keep things accessible to family caregivers, we need support. We need donors and grantors to see what we're doing. Um, it again, you know, back to the gap. You know, it covers the gap between what it actually costs to take care of a participant in one of our centers or a member versus, you know, what we're actually charging. Um, you know, again, I think uh no matter if it's a for-profit or a nonprofit, I mean, like you said, Chris, no margin, no mission. You have to be able to cover the expenses. So, um so I think that's how kind of I approach it from a balancing standpoint is, you know, again, challenging the team because we're always going to be, you know, it's it's not a negotiable item to have anything other than quality outcomes. I mean, that's the expectation. Um, and I like to say, you know, satisfactory is not an acceptable outcome. I mean, we want to exceed expectations every day. So that's the story, if you will. And I like you, Chris. I mean, I think, you know, you have to be a strong storyteller to be, you know, uh leading an organization, you know, and uh I think that's one of the biggest, you know, joys in my career is being able to share the story that is the Glenner Centers, that is Townsquare and the franchising evolution, but um, and hopefully seeing, you know, this model uh inspire individuals to tell their own story of you know what makes a difference in their community.

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Chris Comeaux: 47:52

Um, you know, the first time we met, one thing, it was almost a passing comment, but I wrote it down because again, there are so many places you and I click. But you mentioned this is the gist of what I remember your comment. So you could correct it if maybe I remembered it wrong. But you said there's so much synergy left on the table in healthcare because organizations compete instead of collaborate. That just hit me like a lightning bolt. And you know, we we believe in collaboration. We put it in our name, Teleios Collaborative Network. So why do you think collaboration is so rare in healthcare? And what do you think it's gonna take for us to shift that dynamic?

Scott Tarde: 48:25

Well, and I thank you, Chris, because I mean you know, you model it, you know, and I think that's you know what you you know do with your organization and the synergies that you're after. I mean, again, like you said, I mean, that's why we've absolutely clicked because we share that. And I just think it's gonna take more dialogues, and I know I referenced that earlier, but I think um it's it's gonna take finding an opportunities for people to really understand that, you know, competition, while I I do get it. Like I understand that, you know, that is part of, you know, business 101. Um more than anything, organizations can support each other and there is plenty left to do. And I think that's what strikes me every day. You know, you were alluding to the numbers earlier. I mean, we know that, you know, the the millions of individuals, right, that that have dementia, um, and those numbers are only going to increase, you know, and by the way, Chris, it and you know this, it's not just Alzheimer's disease, right? It's Lewy body dementia, it's frontal temporal, it's vascular, it's CTE. I mean, so to sit there and think that organizations can't find synergies, I just I'm gonna push back on that every time because um it's it really shouldn't be about competition. And again, at the very least, there's enough business to go around for everybody. So, you know, I think if we can just step back for a second and just understand that um and really, you know, and again, I I think it's a matter of of figuring out how to bring people to the table and have those discussions because we get it, everybody's so busy, everybody's trying to, you know, there's demands on times and a hundred emails every day and all these things. But the reality is that if this is to me what really matters is having these meaningful, intentional conversations to build communities that will really transform health care. Otherwise, we you know, we already know we're just gonna keep going in a direction where there are going to be people left behind. And that's, I think, what drives me every day is I mean, I've said this many times. I think I could work every day for the rest of my career, and I don't think we'd even scratch the surface of what's needed in dementia care. And that's just one component of healthcare.

Chris Comeaux: 50:36

Yeah, that is so incredibly well said. I'm gonna get this wrong because I don't remember the specifics. There used to be a training video, I think it was in Seattle, um, like the Seattle fish market, I think now is famous. I may have this wrong, but I think like originally it started where they set up like this fish stand almost like as a public area in front of someone's shop. And it was like, that's competition. And then, you know, they just changed their whole mindset. And then it became this beautiful ecosystem of like an open air market. Again, I may not have the specifics right, but that was at least a learning lesson that stuck in my mind. That's what comes to me listening to you. It's the challenges are almost feel insurmountable in healthcare. And so instead of the competition, and I get it, you know, the financial pressures are imminent, and that's where people want to retreat back. But quite often the historical pivots of breakthroughs are thinking differently than everybody else. I think you nailed it with that. It is getting away from that competitive mindset, that more open collaborative mindset, getting away from that scarcity mentality to more, as Stephen Covey said many years ago, that abundance mentality. I mean, I really think you're onto something with that.

Scott Tarde: 51:44

Thank you, Chris. And by the way, I think you got that story exactly right, you know, and uh, you know, it is a perfect example and you see it. Yeah, I I think I told you before, I think you see things like the Matrix. I think you see it very clearly. And so um, you know, and I aspire to that as well because I think when you when you again, when you can step back and see things like that, I think you just see that this um it's an incredible mountain to climb, but we're all on the same mountain. So, let's just, you know, let's just, you know, kind of help each other, you know, scale that mountain so we can help more people. I mean, it isn't it, and I know it's kind of a rhetorical question, and I try to say it, you know, to my team, but it's really just about helping people. I mean, everything else really comes together if you're doing things the right way. I mean, uh at least that's why I got into it.

Chris Comeaux: 52:31

That's so well said. Actually, I have it on a big sticky, right? And my or my big Zoom room is every day is how can I help? Every day, just how can I help? And gosh, if more of us did that, we would actually really make a difference in this healthcare thing.

Scott Tarde: 52:44

Well, you're doing it, Chris. Thank and I'm, you know, again, I'm so thankful to have this conversation with you because I mean I and I'm hopeful that your listeners, you know, um, you know, take something, anything away from it.

Chris Comeaux: 52:55

I'm sure they do when, you know, when they you're inspired, you're inspiring me. So, I think you're I know you're inspiring them. So last couple of questions. I your staff, you alluded to this. They do just emotionally intense work every day. What leadership practices help you sustain that purpose and the morale of your team?

Scott Tarde: 53:12

Well, I think, you know, I I have some core ones that I've used forever, which I think, again, you'd appreciate Chris. Like I use something that I developed years ago just called EAC, which is expectations, accountability, and consistency. So, I feel like it's a tripod. And if you don't set expectations for people, then you know, they're they struggle. If you don't hold people accountable, they struggle. And if you're not consistent uh with holding people accountable and setting expectations, they struggle. And so, uh I use that kind of uh kind of core leadership principle pretty much every day of my career because um I and I and I try to inspire my team where I can to kind of diagnose when there's an issue. You know, again, did you set the expectations? Did were you holding the individual accountable? Were you consistent? And again, that's just kind of the nuts and bolts of running of an operation. But then it's the things like we talked about earlier, which is really, you know, um, and I'm a big fan, um, because I'm sure I don't even have to ask you. I know you've you've come across, but Marcus Buckingham and, you know, uh first break all the rules. And, you know, we talk about those questions all the time, you know. Um, are you doing what you do best every day? You know, so I'm those are those guiding principles that I want to make sure that we're bringing the right people into the organization, you know, that we're, you know, not only driving our mission, but also our core values. Um, so we don't use those things as just uh, you know, respectfully something on the wall somewhere. You know, I mean, we actually, you know, live those components. And so that's a big part of the, you know, kind of leadership philosophy I have is we don't we don't need to, you know, develop a whole bunch of other things when we have tools kind of at our disposal that are there to guide us.

Chris Comeaux: 54:55

That's so good. You you'll laugh. Um, when I was young and I didn't have gray hair, I got back from a conference and we had an all staff meeting and I was all excited because I heard, I forgot what it was at the time, I think maybe the purple cowl or something like that. And I learned a staff member said out loud, oh great, what is he gonna have us do now? And I just, you know, thank God I was somewhat wise enough to go, that's not a compliment. There's something there. And it began a really good part for me to go, okay, you can't be that flavor of the month guy. You got to bring good principles. Absolutely. So, it was one of those catalytic moments in my career. And I feel like you luckily you learned it probably at a much younger age than I did.

Scott Tarde: 55:33

Well, just as a quick follow-up, Chris, one other thing, you know, I have a quarterly leadership meeting with my team, you know, and um I tell them all the time, you know, I'm not here to try to play school with you, you know. I actually want to bring things that are valuable for you to use, you know, in your day-to-day. I mean, so, you know, again, I'm trying to invite that feedback, you know, and I, you know, I have plenty of things, as you've heard today, that that I use as, you know, kind of philosophies that I've picked up along the way. But I do like and love that saying, you know, tell me what, you know, I need to know, not what you think I want to hear, you know. So, if there's not something that's valuable, let's talk about it. You know, we're colleagues, we're professionals. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I have to make certain decisions, but this is a this is a team, and a team that's designed to, you know, have an impact. So, let's have an open dialogue about those. And I think that's been a theme of what you and I have talked today. Like when communication breaks down in any of these things, that's where the real problems are. Yeah. Well said.

Chris Comeaux: 56:30

Scott, I want to give we can go on hours.

Scott Tarde: 56:31

For sure.

Chris Comeaux: 56:32

I want to give you the final thoughts.

Scott Tarde: 56:35

Oh, I think the final thoughts for me, Chris, are just, you know, um, you know, this is a this is a big journey, you know, that we're all on. And uh, you know, as I was thinking about this question, you know, uh coming on your show, I was thinking, you know, if anything now, it's really about, you know, bringing individuals into healthcare that really want to make a difference. And I and again, I know it's it's rather cliche, but I think for me, um as I'm uh trying to talk with you know the younger generation, there's lots of ways to make money in this world, you know, um, but when you can really have an impact on somebody's life, and especially when we're talking about um family caregivers and individuals that um you know are on a journey that they didn't expect to be on, uh, you know, trying to figure out ways that can really make a difference for them, uh I I think it it's not only what it does for you professionally, but it's again what it does for the entire kind of uh community of healthcare. And I think the more times that we can bring people in that really drive that, it's it will make the difference. And I and I know it's still a big mountain to climb, as we mentioned, but um I'm very inspired by what I see in healthcare. And I just think that these kinds of conversations and uh, you know, the individuals that are listening, I mean, they can go back, and they can really take this, synthesize it, and put it into motion. Like, you know, you can make a difference. I mean, and I know that, you know, some people still need to hear that because uh, you know, it can feel like a big uh a big challenge, but at the same time, I mean, those challenges can really drive us a success and uh really make a difference where uh other people might have thought they couldn't.

Chris Comeaux: 58:28

That is so good, Scott. Well, I want to thank you and what your team is doing. It's incredible. Scott, anything you want us to include, like your email, if they want to learn more about the Glenner model, if they want to learn more about your um town square model, I want to make sure we have all those links. Um we'll put those in the show notes so people can each easily reach you guys. Again, tell your tank, your team thank you. Thank you for them sharing you with us for this little bit of time. And um just again, thank you.

Scott Tarde: 58:54

Oh, absolutely. And easy to find us, Chris. We're at Glenner.org. So just G L E N N E R dot org. So, everything you'd probably want to know about Glenner is there. And I'm happy to be a resource to anybody that uh would like to reach out. And uh, Chris, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I really uh I love talking with you.

Chris Comeaux: 59:12

You bet you as well. Well, to our listeners, we thank you. At the end of each episode, we always share a quote, a visual. The idea is going to create a Brain Bookmark, a thought prodder, about our podcast subject. This one's gonna be a fun one to have the perfect brain bookmark. So, the idea is we want to further your learning, your growth, and thereby your leadership. We're hoping for it to stick. Again, the idea of like a brain tattoo. Be sure to subscribe to our channel, it's the Anatomy of Leadership, TCN talks. We don't want you to miss an episode. Um, if you're interested, you can check out the book, The Anatomy of Leadership. It's on Amazon. Tell your friends, your co-workers, about this podcast. We do this in service of you so you can learn about great organizations and the work that Scott and his team are doing. So, thanks for listening to Anatomy of Leadership. And here's our Brain Bookmark to close today's show.

Brain Bookmark / Jeff Haffner: 59:55

"Expectations, Accountability, and Consistency." By Scott Tarde. "Preserve the Core. Stimulate Progress" by Jim Collins.