Outrage Is Not Leadership: Judgment, Discernment, and When to Speak Up

What does it really mean to stand for something as a leader right now?

In this episode of The Leadership Tea Podcast, Shelby and Belinda discuss the growing pressure leaders face to speak out, and why outrage alone is not leadership. They explore how judgment, discernment, and timing play a critical role in deciding when to speak up, when to wait, and how to create lasting impact without grandstanding.

Through thoughtful reflection and real-world examples, this conversation unpacks the difference between performative action and strategic leadership, the value of incremental change, and the importance of trust built over time.

This episode is for leaders navigating polarized environments who want to lead with intention, credibility, and real influence.

Transcript

Framing The Question: Fight Or Stand

Speaker 0:01

Welcome to the Leadership Tea Podcast, where we invite you to slow down, reconnect with your purpose, and strengthen the leader within. Today we want to talk about what does it mean to fight and stand for something during this period? What does it mean to do that as a leader? We also want to celebrate our second anniversary as a podcast. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna start on topic, but I'm gonna ask that you stay until the end and we're gonna share some really fun facts about the podcast. But first, let's dive into today's topic. You know, we've been thinking a lot about how everyone is telling leaders right now that you need to fight, you need to stand for something, but no one is really talking about how to do that. People are talking about speaking truth to power and about what it means to be bold. We want to talk about how do you do that while still remaining effective. And moments like these, and I think we can all look at the news and see that we really do need strong leaders right now inside organizations and outside of them in our communities. But leading isn't just reacting, it's also about judgment. And so we really want to dig into that today and think about the challenges you're facing as well as how we can overcome those challenges. And Shelby, I'll hand it off to you.

Judging Cost Of Silence And Action

Speaker 1 1:34

All right. Thanks, Belinda. I think I would start by saying, you know, as I see on social media where people are expressing outrage in response to any number of things that are happening here in the United States or globally. One of the things that I'm reminded of is as an executive, you need to make sure that you're channeling that outrage appropriately. And you shouldn't confuse outrage with leadership. Just because you have a platform from which to speak as a leader doesn't mean that that is the platform that you should be using to articulate frustrations with whatever is happening outside of your workplace. Sometimes I've seen leaders use their place of employment as an environment where they can be social activists. And you really need to know how to use the proper judgment and discernment to determine is this the right place for me to express my outrage, however, I choose to do that, or do I need to hold my inner feelings for a different environment, you know, for the weekend, for after hours where I can express and do activities that allow me to respond to the moment, but in a way that is responsible, you know, whether it be at church or a social organization or with my friends or my family. But I have seen a few executives trip up where they're so, again, emotionally connected to what is happening to them outside of the workplace that they think that they can use their leadership role in ways that frankly are inappropriate. And I think given the magnitude of some of the things that we're seeing right now, I could see where there would be a real temptation to do that. And I would just caution people to, you know, think long and hard. You need to pay the bills. You don't want to get fired from your job. And you really need to think long and hard. You know, is it worth it for me to speak up about this thing in my capacity as a leader, or do I need to, you know, hold tight and save that for a different space? What are your thoughts?

Incremental Change And Private Influence

Speaker 3:53

Yeah, no, I agree with you on that. I think sometimes it can be frustrating to be in an environment where you're like, why is no one else angry or focused on this? And you want to bring the focus. So that's what I'm hearing in your comment. And I've definitely observed that and probably been a little guilty of it myself. Me too. Right? You know, I'm human. Right. So I would offer that. I've been thinking a lot about how in difficult periods, whether it's within your organization or if external forces are impacting your team, you have to measure the cost of your silence versus the cost of outrage. Right. And the way that I look at that is what truth is appropriate now and what truth is appropriate later. I've struggled with these tensions when I've been in environments where folks I am leading are pushing me to push the even higher apparatus on some big cultural change or something that is very controversial. And I understand that we can get them there, but we have to get them there incrementally. Sometimes saying that, people's reaction to that can be you're being fake or you're not standing 10 toes down. And so this is why I'm saying, like, you're in a position of leadership because you have judgment and you have nuance. And so you have to read the room and read the environment and say, is this something where I can go for broke and push for everything now? Or is this something where I've got to kind of to put it in football terms, move the ball downfield, maybe like 10 yards at a time? Like we gotta just take this down by down. And so that is something that I don't necessarily have a direct answer on how you should do it, but rather because I can't say I've always done it right. But I have been in environments where my bosses have been just digging in their heels, like we're gonna keep doing this the old way, or we're not gonna get involved in whatever issue, or it's clearly on the wrong side of history. But I'm in the seat that I'm in because I understand that we can get them to move there, but I can't just twist their arms all at once. Right. And so it's having to learn to communicate both ways and knowing that that pause is not always appropriate. Sometimes you do have to fall in, but having the judgment and the discernment to do it. What do you think, Shelby?

Trust Building And Avoiding Grandstanding

Speaker 1 6:16

Completely agree with your point on taking incremental steps. Sometimes I tell my clients and the employees that I've supervised in the past that sometimes you have to go small in order to go big. And you can't just react to everything all at once and advise, you know, your boss, we got to do all these things, or else you risk your own credibility and your judgment and your discernment, as you said, Belinda, in really thinking about okay, how will this one action move the ball 10 yards? And you know, eventually maybe we'll get to 100. But today we need to focus on these 10 yards. I think that's really important. And I think it also dovetails with the other point that I wanted to make, which is you know, speaking truth to power is not a performative exercise. Speaking truth to power really means having the discernment and the courage and the judgment to know when you should speak up. And what I mean by that is sometimes leaders feel like they need to explain everything that they're doing, every decision that they're making, in order for the people who are following them to feel like they're doing something, to feel that, oh, Belinda is taking action on this thing because she got up and she told us, blah blah de blah. And so, yeah, Belinda is fighting for me. Well, maybe Belinda is fighting for you in private. And maybe you don't see the moves that she's making because she's not performing on stage for you, but trust that she's making those moves behind the scenes the best way that she can in order to really have a sustainable, impactful outcome. And I think sometimes going back to my initial point about confusing outrage with leadership and really having the judgment to know when to speak up, sometimes leaders trip themselves up because they feel that they have to litigate in public everything that they're doing. And it's like, no, you don't, just like you don't need to be putting all your business on social media, you don't need to go step by step with your staff on everything it is that you're doing in order to have real impact, especially if it's something that you really do feel ten toes strong on, and you're really trying to make a difference on something that is really important to you. Many times it's best not to bring your team into every single detail of what you're doing, or else they'll get caught up in the rapture and lose sight of the bigger goal. It's just counterproductive to litigate everything you're doing out loud. Yeah, I agree with you.

Speaker 9:07

This is where that saying the quiet parts out loud piece comes into play. I've certainly had conversations where I've said to people, you've brought XYZ to my attention. XYZ falls into this space where I cannot necessarily give you details about all that's happening. Know that I am advocating in this way, and that's all I can tell you. And you're just gonna have to go on with life and trust that I am acting on your behalf, or just being honest with the team. Like, conversations are ongoing. I don't really have updates for you. When there's a decision made, I'll let you know. Y'all just have to trust. And so this is also why you can't wait for a crisis to begin to be a great leader and begin to build trust, build trust on the little things, so that when it's crazy, people you're like, I got this. Right. Y'all ain't gonna see it all, but I do have it. Okay, like that, right?

Speaker 1 10:07

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Power, Politics, And Calculated Risks

Speaker 10:50

I feel like that ties nicely with something I want to talk about in terms of grandstanding. And I think, especially, you know, in spaces like the US post-2020, people really see through grandstanding like that's fake. And I think to myself, often I don't want to overcommit to what I can't deliver on. And the way that I think of that is I can't stand in what I'm not gonna stand on, you know. Say that again for the folks in the back. Can't stand in what you're not gonna stand on, right? So I can't let people back me into we gotta stand up for this, we gotta be angry. Because, like, especially if you have a big team, a big, diverse, global team, somebody's always gonna be upset about something. Always, and so you you have to be able to say, like, okay, this is what I can't control, this is what I'm responsible for, therefore, I'm gonna pay attention to it and act accordingly, and then be able to back it up because it's likely that you are coming, especially right now, coming up against forces that don't want to hear about change, yeah, that don't want to hear about anything but going backwards. And so to come to the table with something, you really need to be able to stand up for it and stand behind it. And I think in many respects, I acknowledge that in this moment we're talking to people who are tenured, are safe. I don't know if anyone's really safe right now, but yeah, you are in a position within your organization that you can't speak up without consequences, or at least not without the same consequences that an entry-level employee might. Yeah, right. Fighting for something doesn't necessarily mean conflict. It can really mean that you're consistently raising it in ways that are appropriate and that you know how to express your dissent and then let it land where it lands. Like I've told y'all this is gonna happen if you do XYZ. Everybody heard me? Cool, cool, cool. I'm not even gonna give you an I told you, so just I've said it. I can sleep tonight. Exactly. That's all sometimes that you can do, right? Sometimes you need to go start a little revolution, but sometimes it's just I've expressed this, you're still not gonna do it. There will be consequences, maybe not tomorrow, maybe six months from now, maybe a year from now. Yeah, I will rest. And so I frame all of that when I'm thinking about it in real life, as like as you're thinking about like how to raise this wind to descend, who really has the power and what kind of power do they have? Is this worth raising with you? Are is it gonna make a difference? When you are at senior levels, there's so much politics to play to get anything done. And anyone who's ignoring that does so at their folly.

Speaker 1 13:37

Yeah, a hundred percent. Is the risk worth the reward? In many instances, that's the calibration that you have to make. Even when you feel deeply about something, you really have to ask yourself do I have the power? Do I know the person who has the power? And is speaking up really going to make a difference?

unknown 13:57

Yeah.

Choosing The Right Room To Speak

Speaker 13:57

Or is it gonna hurt more than harm? You and I were talking recently about how I was at a community service event, and I felt like the mission of this organization is supposed to work on this particular social issue that is on fire right now. Like, like and and so you've gathered all of these people who are really committed to solving that. Instead, people wanted to talk about process. I used to call it like navel gazing or palace intrigue, like they're focused on this internal stuff, and I'm like, but over here, there's a fire, and I came here tonight the fire out. Right. I really don't care about this, and so there's an ongoing fight going on, and at one point, you know, people were like, let's hear people's opinions about what we should do about this internal issue. I really wanted to get up and say, like, y'all are dumb. Because this is what I came here for. Yeah, I think everybody else did too. Why are we well, who cares? This why are we wasting time? But I decided, right? And that spirit of what is truth now versus later, I was like, you know what? I have an opportunity later to speak to a smaller and more influential group of people about the fire, and I will work my feelings about this into my comments there because this speaking now, it's my first meeting. You have no credibility. I have no credibility. Who is this person, this crazy person? Like, yeah, I know I'm supposed to be speaking about the thing, but actually, let's just focus on the fire. Like, they don't know me. No, so I decided it hurt, it hurt.

Speaker 1 15:44

I I know it did, I know because you're passionate about this thing.

Speaker 15:48

I know I decided to stay quiet, and 48 hours later, I expressed myself in that more influential space, and I saw heads nod, I saw people, and I said, right, we should be focused on this, and these other things are secondary because this is what's really important. And people were like, Yeah, you're right, you're right, right? And I have other opportunities to continue to influence the culture in that way. Yeah, that's gonna be more lasting than me standing up expressing outrage at the random meeting. Right. And so that's what I mean. Like in the workplace, in the community, it's clear that we can take that excellence and power that we have, that we express and use it in so many ways. So let's be really discerning about where we put that power.

Speaker 1 16:34

A hundred percent. And I think I just want to foot stomp the point that there are any number of issues that people likely feel outraged about right now, but the common threads and what we've been saying throughout this episode is having the good judgment, the common sense, the discernment to know how and when to express that outrage.

Anniversary Milestones And Global Audience

Speaker 17:00

How and when, so it can be most effective. Exactly. I love it. So shall we shift gears and talk about our anniversary? Yes.

Speaker 1 17:09

You know, we're talking about courage and this theme of moral outrage. And I wouldn't say that outrage provoked us to start this podcast, but I would say that the courage to lead in a different way and to use our voices in a different way certainly formed the foundation and the inspiration for us to launch this podcast two years ago. So it's really exciting to mark this milestone. And thank you to our audience all over the globe for listening to us. Obviously, if you have internet and Wi-Fi, you can access us in any number of ways, whether it's YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or however you get your podcast. But we have listeners in over 140 countries. We have about 75, 76,000 views on YouTube. We have close to 20,000 downloads. And one of the interesting things that I saw in looking at the countries where people follow us, the top five countries outside of the United States. Do you remember one of them? I have the list here.

Speaker 18:22

Okay, we'll see. I'm gonna guess Germany.

Speaker 1 18:25

Yes, that's one.

Speaker 18:26

Yeah, okay. Mexico. Yes, look at you. Okay, okay, I'll guess one more. I think this one was surprising for me recently. Um, UK.

Speaker 1 18:37

Yeah, that was surprising for me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I swear we didn't plan any of this. We did not discuss. I literally looked at my phone to see where people are listening. But yeah, you got those three right: Mexico, UK, and Germany. The other two to round out the top five are South Africa and the Netherlands.

Speaker 18:59

Wow, it's interesting, isn't it?

Speaker 1 19:02

Oh, see, I Netherlands, yeah, I wouldn't have guessed that. I would not have guessed that either. But in terms of overall statistics, I mean, I don't know if people in the Netherlands listened to like our last five episodes, but overall, in terms of just numbers over the past two years, those are the top five.

Ratings, Platforms, And YouTube Push

Gratitude And Season Ahead

Speaker 19:21

Wow, I love it. Yeah, that's really interesting. I would also highlight that if you're listening, you're like, who else listens to this? Most of our audience are professionals who are working in government or working in tech, they are in other parts of the private sector. We have people in nonprofits and academia. I guess that's everybody. We have everybody. It's really everybody like, and I think that the some of the episodes that have most resonated with them have been when we've had topics like our 90-day plan, yeah, or talking about designing your future or navigating pivots and layoffs. I think that's still something that really resonates with folks, right? Yeah, all those are in the top topic. And I would also note we have a 4.9 rating on Apple and a 5.0 on Spotify. If we need to bring that Apple rating up, yes, please. Whether you're listening on Apple or Spotify, please leave a comment. Please rate the podcast and follow us there. But really, we are trying to build our audience on YouTube. And there's so many things that we can do with YouTube, like have events, you know, we can have live events and shorter videos, longer videos, and there's just so many ways to engage as a community there. So although you may the majority of the time listen to us on audio, we'd really appreciate it if you would come over and subscribe and engage with our content on YouTube. Because what that does is it pushes it out to more people. It tells YouTube that people like this and it pushes it out to more people. And we get to continue to build this community because I think we can all think of someone in our life who could benefit from having community like the leadership tea. And so we would just ask for your help and helping the algorithm see that and give it to more folks.

Speaker 1 21:25

Yes. Please and thank you. Really grateful for this community. Thanks to all of you for your support. We have a lot of exciting things planned for this fifth season of the Leadership Tea podcast. And we look forward to sipping wisdom and stirring success with you again, real soon.