S3E4: Euro Talent, Hawai'i Insider, Building a Program From Scratch

We argue whether the surge of European players lifts the NCAA at the expense of USA Volleyball, then turn to how culture and community create lasting power. Devin Young’s hire at Pacific sparks a blueprint for rebuilding fast with Europe, the portal, club stars, NIL, and storytelling.

• tradeoffs between international recruiting and USA athlete development
• whether the NCAA should test international roster caps 
• why Hawaii’s culture creates stars and traveling crowds
• tapping Asian American and LGBTQ+ communities to grow attendance
• Devin Young to Pacific and what a smart rebuild looks like
• balancing portal veterans with freshmen and overlooked club talent
• NIL as targeted investment plus content and transparency
• analytics and NCVF as market inefficiencies to exploit

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Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open: Hawaii Joke Lands
• 0:41 Euros And The NCAA Debate
• 2:10 Caps, Development, And USA Volleyball
• 6:26 Hawaii’s Culture And Superstar Effect
• 12:00 Tapping Communities To Grow Volleyball
• 13:49 The Big News: Pacific Reboot
• 15:06 How To Build Pacific’s Roster
• 18:24 NIL, Storytelling, And Entertainment
• 20:33 Moneyball Meets Club Nationals
• 23:08 Why Pacific Might Be The Dream Job
• 24:56 Closing Notes And Sign‑Off

Transcript

Cold Open: Hawaii Joke Lands

Chad Gordon 0:00

I think that's a huge problem though for their program because John Hawks at UCLA just asked for Milan and they just gave them to him. And that I don't think that's gonna serve him in a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

I would say that that doesn't translate completely all the way.

Chad Gordon 0:14

And yeah, it it really just would have been better for a little bit of rudeness. Sir, I appreciate that, but no, thank you. Get out of my home. There's your intro.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

That's a cold open button for everyone with that.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Get out of my home.

Matt Houlihan 0:41

All right, everybody. Welcome to another amazing, incredible, lovely, fantastic, tantalizing episode of the Coaches Group Chat. We're back for episode three of what is season four. That math is checking out, right? Yes. And we've got some good stuff today. Interesting weekend was had for men's volleyball. We have some thought-provoking concepts to discuss. Daniel's conspiracy theory corner will be back this week. Maybe, maybe not. Uh but who wants to start us off? Ariel? First item of the docket. Tell the people what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Uh we're talking about Euros. We're really, really internationally obsessed on this podcast. We talk a lot about the internationals.

Matt Houlihan 1:24

We love it.

Chad Gordon 1:25

Or do we hate it?

Matt Houlihan 1:26

Who knows?

Chad Gordon 1:27

All the best teams just play the Euros, except for UCLA.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Do you like that there are so many Euros?

Matt Houlihan 1:32

And USC. Sure. USC is all USC is also pretty all American. Yeah. I don't think they have a Euro.

Chad Gordon 1:44

I don't hate it from a competitive landscape. I think it's good volleyball across the board for those teams. I mean, you see the they're not going to teams, you know, that no one's ever heard of. They're going to go play for the Long Beaches, Hawaii's, you know, etc. I think the question is do you care about NCAA men's volleyball being great and higher level, or do you care about USA volleyball? And historically, we don't seem to care less about the latter.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah.

Chad Gordon 2:10

Um so yeah, I mean, obviously these leagues overseas, they have they have caps on the number of people on the team or the number of players on the floor or whatever it is. I know we've kicked around that a little bit on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Um Do you think that the NCAA would ever pass that for a one sport only?

Matt Houlihan 2:29

I would see it like uh I could totally see Trump pulling something like this out. But whoa, that that word just cause a reaction to it. I could totally see Trump throwing something like this around, and I would think of it more like how you have uh limits on roster space. Yeah. Like each sport would probably have some kind of a dynamic at play. And you know, it there's a definitely an argument to be made, and we've we've made it in the past, specifically thinking about NCAA being the Olympic development program for so many of these Olympic level sports, right? Where there's not a pro league that's kind of the next phase that's you know handling that development process. So being able to think about it in terms of protecting American athletes in a way where you know you're kind of guaranteeing their spots, but still allowing schools the flexibility to go out and get a Moni Nikolov, to get a Halir Heno, to get some of that international talent in, which then raises the overall level from that experience is a is a good thing. I don't I don't think any of us want a ban or are calling for a ban. It's really a question mark of we've seen a lot of international talent, and don't get me wrong, they're great players. Um, and that that makes the overall level better, but there's a a long tail effect that we won't really know until a couple cycles down the road when is USA volleyball in a good spot?

Chad Gordon 3:46

Or is it France volleyball is gonna be in a great spot?

Matt Houlihan 3:50

Just briefly, I'm gonna take it into Matt's conspiracy corner rather than Daniel's. This is fully this is Ariel's master plan was to bring Daniel, a UH men's volleyball alum, onto the pod.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Honestly, all I needed was Chad because Chad just ripped on Hawaii enough for me. So I'm I'm good.

Matt Houlihan 4:06

Or maybe that's what we do. Maybe maybe what we needed all along is Daniel to even us out because apparently we we just have too much anti-Hawaii bias.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

People talked to about how I hate Hawaii, and that's not true. I don't know what they're talking about.

Matt Houlihan 4:21

What do you like about Hawaii? Tell us.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

What do I like about the state of Hawaii? The Puerto Rico of the West.

Daniel Rasay 4:28

Yes. I'd like to hear this in depth, please. Continue.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Uh I like uh the four seasons. I like uh oh man, I'm just thinking about all the things that I don't like. So hold on, hold on, hold on. What are the things that I like?

Matt Houlihan 4:45

She literally can't do it, guys.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

No, I can't. I think the thing about Hawaiian culture that I love is like when you tell somebody uh like I like that. They're like, do you want it? Like the giving cult culture of like the Hawaiians are like, it's like on another planet. And like I remember the first time when I was, I think I was a freshman in college and I had a bunch of Hawaiian girls on my team, and it was like, Oh, I like your I like your headband. Oh, do you want it? Like, I'll give it to you. Like that it was just very that is one thing about the Hawaiian culture that I'm like, I think is the coolest thing ever.

Chad Gordon 5:24

I think that's a huge problem though for their program because John Hawks at UCLA just asked for Milan and they just gave them to him. And that I don't think that's gonna serve him in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

I would say that that doesn't translate completely all the way.

Chad Gordon 5:39

And yeah, it really just would have been better for a little bit of rudeness. Yeah, that's true. Sir, I appreciate that, but no, thank you. Get out of my home.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

There's your intro. That's a cold open vibe for how long is that?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Get out of my home.

Matt Houlihan 6:01

Dann, what do you like about Hawaii? Tell us what you like.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

When's what we talk about we don't like?

unknown 6:07

Keep going.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Go.

Matt Houlihan 6:09

Are we talking about men's volleyball?

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Get off the I thought you meant like in general.

Matt Houlihan 6:15

Yeah, we noticed. Since you like the food sometimes.

Hawaii’s Culture And Superstar Effect

Daniel Rasay 6:23

Some of the food. Um I think Hawaii is a special place when it comes to volleyball, is because of the people, right? They love their volleyball programs, both men's and women. And for somebody that's on the team, you're kind of buying into something that's bigger than just the volleyball. It's like the whole state. It's like when Hawaii has a team in the Little League World Series, everyone in Hawaii is watching it. And when you have that type of support, the depth of your culture is huge, and I think that's important in college athletics. And the other thing is they get a lot of foreign people, which brings in talent, and when you have talent and culture, that helps your program be very successful.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

I agree with that completely.

Daniel Rasay 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

I think that the the I've talked a million times about the superstar effect in the sport, and I do think that there are niche cultures in our sport that have it. It hasn't transcended into like m the zeitgeist yet, but it is Hawaii volleyball is like has created their own superstars. And on that island, like people, these guys or and women walk around and people know who they are because they are volleyball players at UH, and that is a very special thing that has been created because of the people in the culture.

Matt Houlihan 7:48

Yeah, I mean, and we've talked about it before about those subcultures, like Mo Moni at Long Beach and Long Beach itself also creates that culture in in a different way, but Nebraska volleyball similarly. Nebraska volleyball. Right. But the thing that I think I've noticed is a lot of the personalities and biggest personalities from what we've seen from volleyball, like take even Kioni, right, as a as a as an option or a person that has that is a personality that does go beyond just kind of your typical collegiate athlete experience that comes from there's a there's to a degree a little bit of a breeding ground from a Hawaii standpoint where you're in that environment where you learn to handle and be in an arena that is just a different arena. How do you entertainer? Yeah, how do you entertain in those environments? And that's not all that's not something that happens at every single place. Yep. Right? So when Hawaii goes on the road, when Long Beach goes on the road, when Nebraska women's volleyball goes like Nebraska going to LA this year and playing USC and UCLA, they sold out both arenas and they didn't skip a beat, right? They lost a six. They sold out 10 away arenas, right? And that is a testament to how they are definitely starting to transcend beyond just their one local demographic market. Yep. And so there's some pretty cool things that are happening there, and I think that's you know, that's a testament to just how well supported they are from a just showing up standpoint. Like it you need to be compelling to get people under the stands to you know, specifically on an island where you have so much to do, that's a pretty big thing to be able to get people to put their butts in the seats for two and a half hours to watch you watch you play this crazy game. So um, and that's that's starts from I mean, I actually I have my ideas, but Dan, where do you where do you think that starts from? Is it just because Hawaii was successful early on, and so there's a degree of winning that happened and that just kind of flywheeled into something even bigger? Or where do you where would you pick it to? Uh I want Daniel's first. I guess I would love yours. I know you have ball knowledge, I want to hear it from you too.

Daniel Rasay 9:58

I think it's definitely the early success, but it's I mean I mean, for as long as I've known, it's a sport that is built into the culture, so people start playing it early, and there's no professional teams, as you mentioned, and so the UH sport becomes the professional team that people support. And I think it kind of feeds into each other. Like when I first went there, I wouldn't say I was an entertainer, but I felt that people wanted to be entertained, and that needed to be a part of my personality, even and I didn't play a whole lot, but when I peppered during timeouts, I felt like I needed to entertain because people were watching us, and I think that's a cool thing that can grow in people that aren't that's not a part of their personality, and so it feeds into that and does them a lot of good. And I've even heard towards the like tail end of my career, people said, You guys are kind of boring, and I was like, Yeah, we are, and we the group we had didn't buy into that entertainment aspect of it, and you know, I do think it hurt in the type of support that we got from the fans because if they're not feeling the vibe from you, then they're not gonna feed that energy into you. So um it's kind of good that it's been more of a mainstay in their program as of late. Yeah.

Matt Houlihan 11:11

When did you win a national championship? At what point in your college career there?

Daniel Rasay 11:14

Uh my freshman year, redshirt freshman year.

Matt Houlihan 11:17

So early, early in your season. Gotcha.

Daniel Rasay 11:18

Yeah. So I planted that seed pretty early in me.

Matt Houlihan 11:21

Nice. All right. Give me your ball, give me your drop your ball knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Uh Asian countries.

Matt Houlihan 11:26

Asian countries love volleyball.

Tapping Communities To Grow Volleyball

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Love volleyball. And that being a such a prevalent culture in Hawaii, I think that there is a built-in uh demographic that loves volleyball. And the Japanese, Chinese, Asian countries support volleyball. Philippines. Philippines get major attendance at at volleyball games. And I think that that is ingrained in people early, and it translates to a arena with volleyball there, and it's the only show in town. Um, and I think that it's the highest level that that is ability to watch, and so I think that that definitely is a recipe for success in that specific pocket of the United States.

Matt Houlihan 12:12

Fertile grounds for for something like this to take root and grow. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Which is which is gonna be a really interesting um case study on bringing professional teams to the Bay Area because there's also a large Asian demographic in the Bay Area, and if that can be utilized in the right way, I do think that there is a potential for a success in that as well with when we're talking about women's pro. Yeah.

Matt Houlihan 12:40

No, definitely just finding ways to tap into these into these very specific communities in a in an authentic way.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Where volleyball is already important to them.

The Big News: Pacific Reboot

Matt Houlihan 12:49

Yeah. I mean, I I think that's I'll take it a little bit of a different direction, but I think it's in the same vein. Like take the Valkyries and what they built. Honestly, they tapped into the gay and lesbian community very, very well. And it is one of the things that is a huge piece that you'll see, and it's very much leaned into. And obviously, just in general, I think kind of the bear has shown a pretty good support for women's sports, but then you've got the Valkyries who have tapped into that, they've tapped into they've tapped into that Asian American community up in San Francisco as well, right? Um, even just their head coach being uh an Asian American, right? So you have these different different pieces that start to kind of come together that all feed into that same place, like that fertile ground for something like that to grow. So it's a it's definitely a unique, unique vantage point to be looking at in a world where we're trying to see women's pro volleyball grow uh and using even men's volleyball or Hawaii, just athletics in general, as a as a kind of frame of reference. Let's get to the biggest news of the week. The real, truest, largest news of the week. The chosen one has been selected. This is the only thing people have been talking about. Yeah, everybody. Everybody in the United States everyone is embracing the white smoke, it is billowing from the chimney. We should have done that. That's a pope reference. That was a pope reference. That was funny. It was a good joke. Mormons follow the pope.

Chad Gordon 14:12

It's a different pope.

Matt Houlihan 14:13

Devin Young has been selected as the next head coach of Pacific Men's Volleyball, only the second head coach in program history, following the legendary Joe Wortman to restart Pacific Men's Volleyball, and I couldn't be happier. What a hire. I am I was when I saw that, I was like, damn, great job, Adam. That is such a great hire. Uh I did not think we were gonna get him, and we did. If you were in Devin's shoes, Dan and Rasai, coming from your collegiate coaching experience, how would you how would you go up go out trying to build a roster for Pacific right now? You gotta get 18 18 young men uh lined up for your program. What what would be your what would be your first steps?

Daniel Rasay 14:58

I'm going to Europe.

Matt Houlihan 15:01

Not a bad choice.

How To Build Pacific’s Roster

Daniel Rasay 15:02

I mean, we talked about it already, right? All of these impact programs, aside from USC and UCLA, heavy foreigner influence. And that would be my first move. Transfer portal. I mean, with so much talent sitting on benches, I think that's a good place to fill your roster. Um and then looking locally too. I think that helps the culture when you have people from close by.

Matt Houlihan 15:36

Would you would you be looking how many would you be looking at freshmen, like incoming freshmen uh of this of this recruiting class, or is it a a situation where maybe it's a little too a little too not lost time, but you're you're gonna be in a tougher position trying to recruit seniors? Or is that uh a place where you could find some diamonds in the rough?

Daniel Rasay 15:56

I think you gotta go a little bit of freshmen, find some diamonds in the rough, some really athletic kids that you could put in the middle and make them hit two balls and go over the top of people. The NIF strategy? Yeah. Figure that out. But I mean, you g I think you gotta get some freshmen in there just to kind of work through the culture of what you want to have within your program.

Matt Houlihan 16:19

Yep. Would you guys have any different thoughts? What would what would you do, Ariel? Would you go straight to Europe as well, right here?

SPEAKER_02 16:27

I I'd put Nat out online and be like, hey, I'm at Pacific. No, I'm at different no, I'm not you shouldn't ask me that question.

Matt Houlihan 16:36

Uh all right, let's play this game. You have a program. Let's say let's say you're coaching at Santa Clara University locally.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Women's or men's?

Matt Houlihan 16:45

Men's.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Okay.

Matt Houlihan 16:46

Men's. How and you were hired as the head coach or you decided that you were.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

You're tapping into the alumni.

Matt Houlihan 16:54

Great. How are you gonna go out and recruit? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 16:58

You put you putting a you put in a I'm gonna document the entire thing. And it's going to be transparent, and it's going to be uh the opposite of what everybody else does, and it's going to be uh I'm gonna get some sponsors and some m some major money to back me, and I'm going to go after uh the biggest NIL deal that men's volleyball could you're building a war chest. Yeah, probably.

Matt Houlihan 17:33

Okay. This intrigues me. Uh this is advertisements are open. Any uh college programs I want to bring on Ariel, I'd love to see that play out. That'd be incredible.

NIL, Storytelling, And Entertainment

SPEAKER_02 17:45

You'd go out and you would just assemble a war chest and then you'd I'd go major money at like two pins. And then I would uh Yeah, I can't give away all my secrets. I can actually do this. Yeah, probably like there's I would yeah, I'd there's a lot of things that I'd probably try and full camera crew. Yeah, I just I would just try and put as much exposure on uh the what I was doing as possible, just to try and create a something that is transparent and healthy and good and uh eyeballs for people that don't follow volleyball.

Matt Houlihan 18:34

Entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Yeah, entertainment for sure. Yeah, which is exactly what I love that idea.

Matt Houlihan 18:40

Is there any like when you look at athletes that you have right now, if you were going if you were gonna take it even to the next level, right, and and do something along those lines, would there be s be something specific from an athlete that you'd be looking for? Is there a is there an X factory?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Any personally recruiting?

Matt Houlihan 18:55

Yeah, if there like if there was an X factor for the entertainment side, is there anything that you'd is there anything that you'd look for there or do you just have to develop that?

SPEAKER_02 19:02

I think that you don't need everybody to to be able to do that. I think it's about um finding the the right people. Um you're looking for the best volleyball players, but you're also I think looking for like the pied paper personalities as well, and like hopefully you're coming up with a combination of those two. Um, but I think all of us as coaches have had players on our teams that we are like, man, that kid is a superstar personality, and it some of them are great volleyball players too, and it's the ones that are both that really uh do something big for you. So yeah, I would be looking I'd have a whole list of things that I was looking for. I like it. It's kind of like assembling my team now of like I'm just because the team moves up, it doesn't mean that you're picking every single kid that was on that team the last year. The what works for me may not work for somebody else. As a coach, I have certain things that I see that um that I think work well for me. Um and that may not be the same for you or for you or whoever else.

unknown 20:13

Totally.

Matt Houlihan 20:13

Chad, would you approach it any differently? If you were gonna if the same question, you're upstairs.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Any differently than me?

Moneyball Meets Club Nationals

Matt Houlihan 20:18

Yeah, of course he's gonna approach it differently, but no. Are you going heavy data? You're gonna how are you gonna moneyball this thing? You're gonna you're gonna take all of your your video analytics from all club tournaments, have your AI break it down and find the diamonds in the rough that way? Sure.

Chad Gordon 20:33

Uh, but I'm not gonna go to the club tournaments that you think I'm going to. I'm gonna go to the NCVF. The collegiate club tournaments. Yeah, that's smart. Yeah. And so I'm gonna, one, I'm gonna get some of these JC guys, I'm gonna get some guys out of the portal, I'm gonna go two-thirds older, uh, but then I'm gonna steal some of these. Like, there are kids that I've seen that play collegiate club who like this guy would be a top 20 setter in college, right? Like, some of these guys are just like, I just want to go to Wisconsin, and Wisconsin doesn't have a men's team. So I side out in Kansas City for college club nationals. Um, and then yeah, I I agree on the other side though. I I would go find people who have money in the UOP area in Stockton. Hey, there's gonna be eyeballs on this, this program's back. It was, you know, this kind of storied thing. Come be a part of it. Let's put more eyeballs on it, let's put more money on it, let's bring a big name out here. Great. Uh, and then yeah, you're gonna have to bring in some younger kids who have been overlooked by most of the other programs. You're bringing in some athletic guys like Doc is talking about. Um, you know, they're we've all had kids who are like, hey man, like you're undersized, but like this kid's like a winner. Like the kid just has a motor.

Matt Houlihan 21:41

Yep.

Chad Gordon 21:42

That guy might be the eighteenth dude on some top ten team, or he might be again a club guy who just like, Hey, I I went to whatever because I knew I wasn't good enough for for this. Um or they're just they're floating around at these other universities and they're they're just overlooked. Because they they play for a Quincy, you know, and not uh not a UCLA. So I think between all of that, you could put together a pretty interesting roster, start building a culture, and ideally, yeah, you have a war chest uh coming along for the ride too.

Matt Houlihan 22:14

So I love it. Some I mean some great ideas from from everybody. I think that's uh that is a fantastic path. One of our best friends who just got hired at University of Nevada Reno as the head coach, Jason Borchen, was a collegiate club player, and Joe Wortman back in the day was looking for a little scrimmage for Pacific Men's Volleyball, and they brought in the Sack State men's club team, and Jason Borchen played for Sack State and he smoked UOP. And Wortman immediately was like, You should come play for us. And he transferred within a month and was on the team and started for them from a collegiate club to Division I player within a matter of a month.

Why Pacific Might Be The Dream Job

Chad Gordon 22:55

There are almost like no rules at that level, other than like you can only have so many guys that form on a D1 roster for like you know the season. Um, but you get guys who are definitely too old to like be in college. Uh Barry Ivers. That's a deep cut. That's another RVOR. Unless you played IBL like 15 years ago. Uh I don't even know what I was gonna say anymore. Um oh, but you can get these guys who are like, hey man, you're literally gonna be like a grad transfer. You're gonna come in and play UOP for like one year just to give us some some age and some wisdom while we train up the next the next crop of kids. Yeah, but you gotta start somewhere. You don't want to start with 18, 18-year-olds.

Matt Houlihan 23:39

Yes, 100%. Because then, yeah, and then it's you're you could be quote stuck with that group and you just don't know how those are gonna pan out. You need a balance of both. That's a graduating class. The senior night's gonna take a long time. That's a long ceremony. You're definitely doing that after the match. Yeah. No, these are all these are all fantastic, but Devin is kind of right.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Like I think that if you look at the landscape of women's volleyball right now, the landscape of men's volleyball, I think the Pacific job might be the most fun job you could get in volleyball right now. Like you literally get to step in and just create anything.

Matt Houlihan 24:10

And you have an alumni base.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

With yeah, and you have an alumni base, and it's you need to start something brand new, but you have alumni. Right. Like you create you get to create something that is completely your own. Like that whole idea is a like you're not working against the NIL stuff in women's volleyball. Women's volleyball is uh a different game now, so you have to have the money behind it in men's volleyball.

Matt Houlihan 24:33

Like you're we want to get we want to get him money. You want to get the money, but it's the war chest is not that he needs to compete against the volume.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

You don't need a million dollars for a kid to compete against the women's teams, so it's a the men's game is kind of like the dream jobs, I think, in volleyball right now.

Closing Notes And Sign‑Off

Matt Houlihan 24:50

Yeah. Pacific is bad. Just gonna Yes, Spencer Wickens.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

And your long lineage of people who've left men's volleyball.

Matt Houlihan 25:04

No. Great stuff. Another great episode. Like, comment, subscribe, or don't