The Best Doubles-Team in History, Bob and Mike Bryan, join the show, Tsitsipas & Team USA win the weekend, and tennis forwards gender equality

Andy Roddick goes through the weekend’s winners with Stefanos Tsitsipas and Team USA at the Billie Jean King Cup led by Lindsay Davenport. Roddick talks with Jon Wertheim on some topical news and the gender equality in tennis versus other sports. Lastly, Andy is joined by Davis Cup teammates, the greatest doubles team of all time, Bob and Mike Bryan. They talk about what it’s like to play with your twin, playing for your country at Davis Cup and the Olympics, and they share some hilarious, never been heard, personal stories from their career. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

friends, I've missed you. Welcome to another episode of served, your favorite podcast, or at least one that you're still listening to. Uh, I am andy roddick. Uh, we have a hilarious show today. My good friends, my teammates back from our Davis Cup days, bob and Mike Bryan, otherwise known as the greatest doubles team of all time, have won all the majors, all the 1000s gold medal which they touch on.

Speaker 1: 0:40

I won't give away the ending to a lot of this stuff. I won't give away the ending to a lot of this stuff. But Mike actually had his gold medal stolen from his house and he tells I don't know why you're laughing. That's not like that's a terrible thing to have happen to someone. You do all that work, a lifetime of work, and it was someone he knew. Anyways, he gets into that story later on, but it is just, they gave you a peek behind the curtain, it's. You know. You see their accomplishments, you see the way that they have kind of classily presented themselves over the years media availability, always promoting doubles, basically just really decent tennis citizens for their entire lives.

Speaker 1: 1:25

Um, they tell some stories that if you don't laugh at them then I don't. I don't actually trust your sense of humor. Um, but they're they just kind of ripped the bandit off. It is hilarious. I've heard these stories in private. I think these first time they've told these stories in public, but not just a straight line to the top, like every close, important relationship. Peaks and valleys along the way, but certainly way, way more peaks than valleys, and they ended on top of the mountain at the end of everything. And now we get into Racket Rundown, brought to you by producer Mike.

Speaker 2: 2:03

Nobody.

Speaker 1: 2:07

Crickets. We need a cricket sound. Cricket sound, I think, is what we need. I think I do think we're gaining on it. I think maybe not. Uh, hopefully that will change, because we do have to start paying for the podcast at some point. I think maybe no I mean no we don't.

Speaker 1: 2:23

no, okay, apparently we don't. Okay, apparently we don't. Great, this is great. It's like the deficit. It's for the people. All right, racket rundown, a big week, monte Carlo Steph sits up Possibly want to get to that.

Speaker 1: 2:36

Rafa is going to play in Barcelona and Barcelona he is going to play. We will all be watching that very closely. I am just happy and relieved and also I'll be watching every point and hoping that nothing goes wrong. We cannot risk any injury from here on out could be potentially the injury could be the last injury. I hope Rafa plays great. I still feel like, if he gets matches in and if he gets a clean bill of health for two or three events going into Roland Garros certainly one of the favorites and also something that's not talked about enough right now he goes in unseeded we could potentially have a Rafa Novak first round. I could tell you if I was one of the top seeds, who I would not want to play first round. I could tell you if I was one of the top seeds who I would not want to play first round. If he's just floating in the draw, he's a guy who's won that event 14 times, but happy to see him back in Barcelona Hopefully he's healthy. This is a good start. Participation Hopefully he gets there Steph Sitsipas and Monte Carlo getting the win.

Speaker 1: 3:42

Um has had a very rough by his standards. Listen when I criticize Alcaraz, it's against his own shadow. When I criticize Novak, it's against his own shadow. Someone who's 80 in the world, making a fourth round is great and has a little bit of levity to uh to the description. You're based against your own shadow. And so the last 16 months since a boss has been less than he was uh, to his credit. For the five or six years before that where he was routinely a top five guy and a contender at majors, and one who almost won one at the french open. Uh, he needed this switch of service and I think I said it after. After miami. Uh, he desperately needed to switch over to the clay. He needed some home cooking.

Speaker 1: 4:24

Uh, he has won twice in Monte Carlo and Steph Tsitsipas played great. He played great tennis. You could kind of actively see him fighting through some scar tissue, zverev as the example. Up a set, up 5-0, and then Zverev gets back into it. You can kind of see the doubt creep in a little bit, but then to recover to kind of choke the set away and then recover and close him out in a breaker. A huge win. Kept fighting against Sinner in the semifinals. I think Sinner was generally maybe the better player on the day up 4-2.

Speaker 1: 5:03

It looked like he had a leg injury. Now they're trying to sell it as a cramp, which if you're a Sinner fan, you hope it's a cramp that goes away with a couple bottles of water. If it's an injury, that's more concerning. But he says I'm going to play in Madrid, so plenty of time there. But Sitspas getting that win and then closing out the tournament in a match against casper rude who, by the way, has made two french open finals of his own, uh, convincingly one and four, uh strategically. In that match against casper rude I was on tc live all week and it was a clinic in hitting to his strength to open up the weakness right. I don't know how many times during my career some dummy who is an accountant just hit it to his backhand. I promise you we've thought of that. I swear we've thought of that. We've been doing this since we were like six, but pressuring the Kasparud forehand, not letting him kind of settle in and getting those inside outs from the backhand corner, backhand up the line.

Speaker 1: 6:07

Everything that Steph Tsitsipas does well naturally translates to clay without adjustment needed, right. So when he returns he can kind of lay back and get the hide on his backhand return. It's tougher for someone to take that on the rise or early, however you want to call it on the rise such an antiquated term I hate that. I just used it. Uh, but take it earlier rush. Uh. The opponent steph can get some height on that backhand can switch directions a little bit easier. Uh, he's fluent in movement, so his transition game, uh, doesn't suffer like most of us hackers.

Speaker 1: 6:46

On clay he's able to get through the court. He served a little bit better. The clay actually doesn't hurt his serve at all. He has that little bunny kick out wide that he doesn't hit big. Probably, you know, I don't know 84 to 87 range, but it kicks sideways and you have so much court to cover and he actually has time for that first shot. So you can't just like drill that middle and hope that he's rushed. His swings are pretty big. They're big and fluid. The faster the court gets, the tougher those are. To time he's capable of doing it. We've seen him do it.

Speaker 1: 7:14

So put away your Twitter fingers and say well, he made the finals of Aussie Open in one world tour. I understand that time he prefers more time and when he has more time he can bully you around the court and get the ball up. His superpower leaning back on the backhand. His backhand goes from maybe below average on fast courts to above average on a clay court. Gets it up out of the zone and you have to kind of protect that one on the backhand side. Him, him going flipper magoo up to where you're above your shoulders and then he burns you line. I thought he had a great grasp of shot selection when to go for it, when not. To Happy for him.

Speaker 1: 7:51

He needed this, maybe more than anyone in the top 15 in the world, just based on the precedent of his career and this isn't me going after Stats. It's based against his own shadow. Again, I criticize Alcaraz. It's against what we saw last year at Wimbledon when he shocked the world and beat Novak Djokovic. There it's. You know when I'm saying an observation about Novak, all of you that go yeah, you only won once. Yeah, no, I understand. I'm fully. Eyes wide open. I fully understand all of it. You base your analysis of someone against their own shadow, against their own precedent, that they've set. Steph sets a pass at 12 in the world. It's the lowest he's been and one of you nerds is going to correct me but it's something five, six, seven years since he's been that low, trending the wrong direction.

Speaker 1: 8:41

He needed this result to reestablish himself. Did an unbelievable job, very happy for him. You could. This result to reestablish himself. Did an unbelievable job, very happy for him. You could see how much it meant to him Going through some big names in Monte Carlo. This wasn't an accidental win where everyone kind of got beat out of the draw. He beat some serious, serious clay court players, beat the hottest player on Tour Center. There was an umpire situation which is a whole nother can of worms, which is just like. The inconsistencies in umpiring is just so dumb and I'll actually talk about that in the close today because that's been like a thing how we don't have replay. It's like, well, it'll be there next year. I'm like, well, I wasn't there this year. Like that's like rewinding a cassette by hand.

Speaker 2: 9:21

So you're just going to talk about it now set by hand.

Speaker 1: 9:26

So you're just going to talk about it now. No, I'm gonna get it. It's fair feedback. Uh, anyways, seth sets a boss. Uh, props, way to go.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Casper, rude, re-established himself. Uh, making a final there. Still has not won an atb tournament tournament. I said that like james blake, like I was from connecticut tournament. Um, above a 250 level. Uh, he will.

Speaker 1: 9:40

He's a great player. You can't say he hasn't won. He doesn't play well in the big tournaments. He's made three slam finals, which he's almost more consistent in the bigger events than he is in the smaller ones, not counting 250s, where the draws are a little bit limited. But I thought he played great.

Speaker 1: 9:56

I think it was a good week for Novak, got his paces in. You have to be a certain kind of player for people to criticize the semifinal showing in the first clay court tournament of the year when you've only played two other events and you beat a top 10 player along the way. No other player on earth would get criticism for that. So we're going to leave that there. Uh, looked, it was a little strange. His uh, he was like laboring. His, his breath looked like it was short. Uh, early and especially against demon hour. Um, it was. It was short, early, especially against Demon Hour. It was interesting. You feel like he's still trying to find his match fitness, which is normal. It's normal. It's not a criticism. I'm so scared of NoLay's Twitter people. I say something like he was breathing heavily and even though he was breathing heavily, they'd be like oh, no f*** you.

Speaker 1: 10:43

Okay, cool, no worries breathing heavily.

Speaker 2: 10:44

And even though he was breathing heavy, they'll be like oh no, you okay cool, no worries, you breathe, you breathe heavily too. I'm like yeah do you think they'll still be like that when they get charged to reply?

Speaker 1: 10:51

I don't know, it's just I just I just eat from them all the time. I'm like effusive going through how brilliant he is. I think I was the first to say that he was the greatest before. It was, uh, generally accepted. But you can't win them all, mike. It's not what we're trying to do here. I thought Novak, I thought it was a good week for him, uncharacteristic at the end, but if you haven't played a lot of matches it's ridiculous to think that you're going to play matches at the peak of your abilities. He needs to play more tennis going to Roland Garros, he knows that. He knows better than anyone how to manage this part of the year. He's kind of slowly ramped up the clay court season to get to a Roland Garros title a couple of times, including last year, so not worried about him. Hoga Runa played pretty well this week.

Speaker 1: 11:39

I love the drama. Medvedev yelled at people, which is always welcome, especially in the drama Medvedev yelled at people, which is always welcome. Uh, especially in, in, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in um jess pagula, look, maybe nervy. First match got through. Uh, emma navarro uh, apparently had like an arm injury. Didn't even mention it to lindsey until she was like a set in, like she's tough man, like she is, she is gritty, she is tough, she is the kind of person that you want to be on a team with um. I got in trouble for saying lindsey a team with um. I got in trouble for saying lindsey was mad at me. I got in trouble for saying she was mad at me. I got in trouble for saying I said this crazy thing. I said two crazy things this week, mike that I got in trouble for you.

Speaker 1: 12:34

Ready for him ready that emma navarro is a better tennis player than she is a rapper how dare you? I know and I I'm sorry, I apologize live on air in the opening segment of tc live, because last thing I want to do is piss off mama bear lindsey, who I love and who is mad at me. But we're not. She's not mad at me anymore.

Speaker 1: 12:55

I think I had maybe had something to do with them winning um it was all sorry cures yeah uh, but I thought lindsey did a phenomenal job because she had two players on day one who may have been a little nervous. Maybe the matches were a little bit tighter than they would have expected. It's a math contest, it's not an art show. Put two wins on the board, c'est la vie usa going to the finals. Congrats on lindsey. Uh, texted with her yesterday. She said she has five weeks off now, so hopefully I want to get her on the pod because I'm so curious. Normally we hear from captains after they're done with their captaincy. I kind of want to. I would love to hear the adjustments before and how different it is. You know coaching players to do something that you've done before, but if she has to deliver information differently to the different players, it's not like she's a coach that's with them all the time in these situations. So hopefully she'll come on and she can also explain why she was mad at me. But I thought great job, team USA. You know who else did a great job at BJK Cup, who I think it could have relevancy for the rest of her season, is Emma Raducanu Came back, skipped Miami first time on clay in a while, beat Pari and Garcia from France in like big matches that are pressure packed, like playing for your country is a nervy gross. You feel like you want to vomit before you go. On the court type experience, I thought she did great, won a tight match, seven, six and a third against Pari. That's a big win for her. She's lost a lot of tight three setters to get two matches. It's a handful of times she's won two matches in a row on a surface that she hasn't played much on at all. We forget that she was kind of like a part-time tennis player when she won the US Open. I think that is a big, big deal for her.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Props to Ben Shelton, number one American. We have 14, 15, 16 in the rankings. Now what we need is and I never want to be the guy that walks uphill, the guy that walked uphill both ways to school we have the potential for these guys to be top 10. So we're talking about four, five, six in the world. I think that's a more interesting conversation. But on the heels of uh ben winning in houston, taylor fritz having semi-finals, uh, from last year in monte carlo, fall off. Uh ben is the new us number one, well deserved, uh youngest, since uh one and erotic oh yeah, those, those stats are so antiquated and boring.

Speaker 1: 15:20

If I'm being honest, um weird thing is it's like I put it in a different way um january of last year, so not not too long ago, 15, 16 months ago had never left the country ben yeah, when he went to australia last year, he had never left the country before that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 15:37

this is someone who developed late, went to college, is still very young, but it's not as if he was playing challengers when he was 17. Had never left the country 15 months ago your new American male number one Coming up on the show. Next we are going to get to John Wertheim with his headlines, news and notes. I'm going to get informed on what's actually going on, and then you have to stick with us. It's a crime if you don't listen to uh, bob and mike uh telling each other about the crimes that they committed against each other yeah, your face will hurt all of our faces it's, it's brilliant.

Speaker 1: 16:13

We'll be right back another week. Another schooling of news and notes from, uh, my partner in crime, johnim. John, what is going on this week? What have you been up to? You've been traveling around talking to some of the biggest players in the game. What's been going on?

Speaker 3: 16:32

I did not have my $300,000 watch stolen, so that was not me.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Too soon.

Speaker 3: 16:39

Yeah, exactly what's going on. You know some news and notes. Yeah, I had an interesting week. I spent some time with the bravest woman in tennis, with Daria Kazatina TV piece to come, but she is someone we all should be applauding, admiring, supporting her when she plays, watching her blog she's really extraordinary. And yesterday I was in Bucharest, romania, sat down with Simona Halep, and we talked a lot about what she's been through the past two years and I gotta say I give her a lot of credit.

Speaker 3: 17:13

She is not ducking this one and she seems to know that part of her rehabilitation includes taking on all these questions that people are wondering about and asking. And she showed up by herself. We went to a tennis club owned by Jan Tiriac, which is a remarkable story in and of itself, but, yeah, we sat down for an hour and she had no handler, she had no notes, she had no talking points, no lawyerly statements, and she answered everything I asked and I thought that was really honorable. Tv piece to come. What else News and notes? It looks like this Saudi. You want to talk, saudi? Should we have everyone go to sleep?

Speaker 1: 17:51

We haven't talked Saudi in hours. We should definitely do it. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 17:55

What are we going to talk about when this thing gets settled? No, the big Saudi offer seems to be. I don't know if it's expired, but it seems to be sort of a little bit in peril right now. We always knew there was a ticking time clock. They obviously signed with the women. I do think they're going to stay in tennis your favorite endorsement the rankings that the PIF has sponsored on the men's side. I think you can expect a similar announcement on the women's side. The Saudis still want that big thousand event, but I'm not sure that $1.3 billion flat offer still exists. I mean, with this announcement about the women and with some of the other sponsorship, I'm not sure what that's going to look like.

Speaker 3: 18:34

This is all going to come to a head in Madrid. The WTA will hopefully announce their CEO. The four majors will be there. Andrea Gaudenzi will be there presenting with Steve Simon, which is not something we often see. Men and women you know this is cats and dogs. This is ATP and WTA both presenting together a lot of politics. I've heard that the schedule may even start earlier next year, as hard as that is to believe, and that the last week of December will actually be week one, can you?

Speaker 1: 19:02

believe that?

Speaker 3: 19:02

Say that again. The schedule will actually be week one. Can you believe that? Say that again. The schedule will actually be sort of a week zero in December will be week one. So the Australian Open will start on that. Whatever it is January 12th, I want to say so the three-week lead-up will actually start in December. So all this talk about the off-season is too short. I think it's on a Tuesday. This year. It looks like we are not going to get the shortened off season that everybody seems to want. Also, keep an eye on Queens Club. It will probably be. I heard it would be this year, but I don't think it's going to happen in time. But next year there will be, I'm told, a women's event as well as a men's event at Queens Club before Wimbledon on the grass. I think that's sort of an audition. Can these guys stage one of these thousand level mixed two-week events? So the women are going to get a big grass event before wimbledon, probably in 2025. That's about all I got the uh interesting.

Speaker 1: 19:58

Um, the sound. It sounds like posturing, like I don't know why the saudi offer would have been good a month ago and why it's changed now. Um, I don't think the numbers for the wta finals would put them out of the equation. Uh, for something else that's interesting. Um, my first reaction, without actually knowing anything about it, is there's like a soft offer and you're kind of testing the waters and announcing it, um, maybe getting player feedback, um, but that's that seems. That seems a little strange.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Uh, as far as queen's club is, is maybe my, one of my, might be my favorite venue in tennis. It's this old clubhouse from, you know, hundreds of years ago. They kind of tuck in on one side. They build the stadium around, uh, the. The question is is do they have to build more stadiums? It's, it's literally surround. It's like a tennis club, but it's surrounded by apartments, you know, that are five or six stories high. There's nowhere to go like. It's not as if you can find space in the, the heart of london to build it out.

Speaker 1: 21:01

And I guess my second question is is every 1,000 do? Are the 1,000s never going to live independently from now on? If there's a new contract, is it does it is. It does it have to be men's and women's combined forever in a day? Is that generally accepted? Because that's great, I think it's better for the game. But also like the just the venue size of queens and adding doubling the tournament space on a surface that gets worn out and the more worn out it gets. It's not as if it's like a hard court or a clay court where you sweep it and it's good as good as gold like it. The wear and tear matters. There's no indoor option if it rains, which it's done before in London. That that's that. That that stresses me out a little bit, because Queens is such a perfect event as is, I think it's worthy of a 1000, I guess is is. Are all 1000s moving forward combined 1000s?

Speaker 3: 21:58

I think they are. I mean, monte Carlo is sort of the wild card in this. But yeah, I mean, I think, whether this is the go Demsie, take the Saudi money, combine the tours model, or this is the premier tour, which really seems to have lost a bit of steam these last few weeks, whichever model is sort of going to get implemented, it does seem like everybody is in agreement that these events should be long 12, 14 day events. They should be both men and women, they should be mixed. And you're right, I mean some events you go to the venue and, hey, we need to build onto the golf course, right, I mean, you're in, say, north Carolina, for instance. No, I mean, there's some places where the real estate isn't an issue. Right, we can build a few more courts down the road. We've got the space. Even, ironically, even Wimbledon has that extra space across the road on the golf course. Queens Club doesn't have that.

Speaker 3: 22:46

So I think that I think this is a bit of an experiment. The way it was told to me it was that it would be back-to-back week, so it wouldn't necessarily in 2025. Oh, okay, that's better. I mean, yeah, but these are longer events. But you're right, grass is a different animal. Grass is a different animal, but I think the short answer to your question is yes. I think we are all sort of as much disagreement and as much sort of divergence as exists here.

Speaker 3: 23:10

Everybody seems to agree that tennis is at its best at these big events when they're men and women. I don't know if you want to go here, but I couldn't help thinking a lot about tennis in this very topic when we saw the ratings for the women's college basketball tournament. I don't know if our international audience is up on this, but the women this year NCAA tournament in basketball, the women absolutely crushed the men's in ratings. I mean these women's games. I don't know if you saw some of these numbers. I mean they were doing bigger ratings than the World Series, than NBA Finals, than just about, you know, than run-of-the-mill college football games. And I kept thinking. This is why these arguments over equal prize money are stupid, because one day the women's ratings and attention and buzz and that'll soar and then it'll go down and the men will take over. And this is why it makes sense to sort of hedge your bets. Pay everyone the same, hold these events. Sometimes the women will drive the action, sometimes the men will, and let's move on and not argue over nickels.

Speaker 1: 24:12

Here's what I've been consistently saying forever and, for context, like I was always the person who I kind of right or wrong, I like to at least express what I thought. I tried not to make it super knee jerk and failed sometimes. Now, do we value the best numbers of all time against a sport that is now struggling but has name value, like the world series? Um, and also, do we value the tours and their value, uh, together, or is it fair to judge them in a silo, right? So the most obvious example is uh wta finals the last two years, years and how the free markets have spoken to it, versus a change of venue and being in Turin where it was 17,000 people a day going crazy.

Speaker 1: 25:15

I understand what you're saying and, by the way, props to Alexis Ohanian, who in tennis world, might be better known as Serena Williams' husband. He has been one of the biggest investors in women's sports and is now kind of getting his I told you so moment. That is well deserved. Taking a college basketball rating where you have certain personalities and some divisiveness the Kim Malarkey story going into the final four, it seemed like there was this like cyclone of. Almost like every story is a political story, mixed with iowa versus lsu. Mixed with it's like these perfect circumstances. Can we draw a straight line to every women's sport everywhere and the market because of this moment in time, or do you think that's just the general direction of of where everything is going?

Speaker 3: 26:07

yeah, um did. Did you call her kim malarkey as a freudian slip or as one of the all-time great nicknames that I think you just uh gave to kim mulkey?

Speaker 1: 26:18

uh, fantastic, no, I, I uh, I have. No, I'm sure I don't know what you mean, but uh, question, I said what I said.

Speaker 3: 26:25

All right, kim Mulkey is her name, but to many people she is full of malarkey. So you nailed it. No, I think that's a good point. I mean, my take on this too is that it doesn't have to be an either or right, and you can say to a CEO listen, here's your compensation, and if you hit these benchmarks, these bonuses will kick in and there will be escalator clauses.

Speaker 3: 26:46

I mean, I think there's a way to divide this pie equitably. So maybe the men and women don't necessarily get 50-50 when the men's year-end final is a smashing success and the women's is played before you know 11 people and a gatekeeper at Acapulco. Maybe there's a way to have equity and also have some sort of mechanisms where you're rewarded for success and perhaps downgraded for lack of success. So I don't necessarily think it's either, or I mean, I think there are creative deals to be made. I just think this whole debate over ratings and prize money you know, listen, one year the Williams sisters played doubles and the ratings are better than the men's final at Wimbledon, and the next year Roger and Roth will play and blow the women's ratings out of the water. And I just think tennis spends way too much time thinking about how to divide the pie and not grow the pie, and I think your point is a good one that we don't necessarily take this one moment in time.

Speaker 3: 27:41

We talked about a few episodes ago, we talked about the danger of cherry picking numbers and data, and I think that probably holds here too. Was this year in women's college basketball a one-off or is it a sign of things to come? I just think there's a way that tennis can have equity, which doesn't necessarily mean dollar for dollar equality. Set up a business model where everybody is baked in, everyone's incentivized If the men get 10 times the sponsorship. Maybe there's a way that we don't have a 50-50 model, but figure out something where everyone feels bought in, everyone's got skin in the game and let's move on and grow the pie, not divide it.

Speaker 1: 28:19

But aren't we there? We just talked about that that every 1000 moving forward is is a combined event. We're talking about combining tours. You know the equal prize money situation is something that tennis was ahead of and there and people argue imperfections way more full throatedly than they argue progress just generally right. Like you know, I, I you never want, uh, perfection to be the enemy of progress. In my mind, tennis has been ahead of the curve on all of these issues compared to any other sport. Um, so what I don't want is to for tennis to fall under any sort of critical lens, which which would uh imply that there is a lack of forward thinking on equality in our sport, considering what we've done, what the track record is, what the intention base has always been and what most of the tennis world's buy-in has been from it. And I'll give you an example of you know I'm all for all of this stuff, I'm all for progress All the time. You know I'm all for all of this stuff, I'm all for progress All the time. You know I'm open. I'm just open on all issues, culturally, significantly, economically open.

Speaker 1: 29:36

To give you like an example of like a thought process on a. It was, I think it was 2007. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong by like a year. On either side, it was at at Wimbledon, and Jill Simone, uh, said something in press, um, basically saying, you know I his main argument may have been women played two out of three sets. That's just. It's just a joke that there's equal prize money. So I had already, thankfully, played my match, match gone through press that day. But in two days I'm reading the story. I'm like, oh no, I go. I'm for sure being asked about this two days from now, 100% by all the American journalists, and I go, you know. And so I had what I thought was a pretty thoughtful response. I said listen, it's very simple to me. If all of you in this room find some sort of straw poll I don't know if it's on the ground research, I don't know if it's based in TV data, I don't know if it's based in whatever it is I go. And you find that we, meaning the ATB tour, aren't living up to our side of this agreement, I go. I'll be the first person to raise my hand and say like we, actually we should be getting less if we're actually creating less, I go. But the I disagree with the premise of length of matches, dictating payment, because two out of three sets if you rate higher than three out of five is actually more valuable. Because you're getting those numbers, you're getting higher advertisement. If U2 goes and plays an hour, they are worth more than the next best band that is playing for four hours.

Speaker 1: 31:16

Like time spent on court, I think is the laziest argument. It's product. Dollars in, dollars out. Are people watching? Can we monet, monetize? Can we grow the game? Can we create more tournaments? Can we make every single week self-sustaining on tour? I don't care, you know how you're born, I don't care. When you're born, I don't care. It's very simple. Can you create the market for what you're selling? And I think tennis has been ahead of the curve. I think there's been more unity, equality across genders, across prize money, across thought than any other sport. So I, I would, I would say that we're, we've kind of been ahead of uh that criticism, um, and I hope it continues. Uh, go ahead, produce right.

Speaker 2: 31:57

Yeah, I mean last year for the U S open. When you look at it, I mean Coco's finals drew a million more viewers than the men's final but, more importantly, drew more 18 to 49. Oh, that's huge, you know up against, up against football, both of them. You know, so I think it's important to know that. I mean people will watch what they are interested in, regardless of gender.

Speaker 2: 32:20

They're going to watch the storyline that they like, and I think that's what was so impressive about the women's basketball this year, and I don't think it subsides. I think it's created new fans and I think the I think the quality of the game is much better than it was because there's been investment in creating better players, so I think it's exciting to watch, especially as a you know, a dad of two girls I don't hear any malarkey?

Speaker 3: 32:46

no malarkey, I mean exactly, but also, isn't this, uh, isn't this a total value?

Speaker 2: 32:51

add isn't this a?

Speaker 3: 32:52

great market advantage for tennis, right? That uh a part. You know. You and I started this podcast. We talked about kazakhstan, halep. I mean I have friends who love the nba and they can't name three WNBA players. It's not just the economics, it's not just the ratings, it's just part of the culture. I always say that nobody goes to the tennis and says, you know, I love Coco and I love Iga, but who's that guy from Serbia and who's the Spanish guy with the big muscles? And nobody says I love Roger and Rafa, but who are those two sisters from compton? I mean, if you like tennis, you don't draw these different. You and I talk just as easily about the wta is the atp and I think it's a real value this sport has and it shouldn't get.

Speaker 3: 33:34

I mean, when you take these side tracks of best of three, I would say that the wta should be like yeah, you're right, we'll play best of seven, pay us more, like all these detours about length of match and who's bringing in what's, but just, but it's also it's. It's such a value for tennis, I mean, instead of arguing about it. This is like name me another sport I mean same with, I mean golf. There's, there's a zero overlapping venn diagram between the pga and the lpga. This is a real tennis virtue which would lean into it. It, that's my sermon.

Speaker 1: 34:06

Also, I say this once a week to somebody. I said a small enough sample size can tell any story you want it to tell.

Speaker 1: 34:15

If you take one match and compare it to one match on the same day and make that your rule anytime you want an accurate portrayal of a stat that is speaking to you, whether it's ratings, whether it's sponsorship. You just scroll out a little bit. The bigger you make the sample size, the more accurate data you will be parroting what I will say. You mentioned that 18 to 49 demographic. That is the demographic. No offense to anyone slightly older, and I'm getting to the older side of that. Thank you, sorry, john.

Speaker 3: 34:52

I think my connection is.

Speaker 1: 34:57

That is valued differently than other demos, because that is the growth demo, that's the demo that's going to be with you, that's the demo that you can establish nostalgia with, and the higher end of that demo are in, uh, you know, for the most part in prime money-making years, uh as well. So that's why that is such a significant stat and why Coco's run uh was so important. Jw, you got anything else for me or uh, you let me off the hook and it's all brian's all the time, uh for the rest of the episode bring, I'm a warm-up band man.

Speaker 3: 35:26

Bring on the boys. All right, jw. Thanks man, thanks guys and everyone.

Speaker 1: 35:33

This is the conversation that I have been waiting for. I have been looking over at producer mike for the last week, since my good friends the best doubles team that has ever walked planet Earth Bob and Mike Bryan, agreed to come on the show. I looked at Mike and I said let's let it rip. Tater Chip, let's go. Bob and Mike, how are you guys doing Good? How are you doing Andy? Great, nice to see this podcast become a reality. I know you were talking about it in Charlotte a few months ago and I was waiting to text you and say, hey, this is a great podcast, cause I knew you would ask us to be on, so I was waiting until we were both ready, uh, for this, for this to happen. Yeah, I think, uh, I Mikey, correct me if I'm wrong. If my suspicion of Bob is accurate, I think he was waiting to see if we got canceled in the first three weeks.

Speaker 2: 36:28

Is that an accurate representation?

Speaker 1: 36:30

No man, you're rocking and rolling, but yeah, we had a fun time in Charlotte in December for your foundation and we told a few stories at your dinner and you're like I think I'm going to start a podcast and you got to let it rip. Let it rip, tatership. So they don't need me to read off their accolades and superlatives, but I will. The most important part to me personally is being unbelievable teammates during Davis Cup. Selfishly knowing that I could work Friday, potentially Sunday, and have the greatest doubles team of all time, handle Saturday duties and never, ever have to worry about being called into action, as well as just having their support throughout the years with a shared common goal, is where my kind of friendship, relationship, respect for these grew, uh, by leaps and bounds. Um, I first saw you guys and you all know this because we've talked about it many times, but I first saw you all there.

Speaker 1: 37:31

I remember being in austin, texas. I was probably like seven or eight years old and you know the tennis community in any city is is kind of a way to shrink the city and everyone you know every little tennis person, knows every little other little tennis person and I said these twins from California, right, and they're like they're better than everyone. They already like play like they're men. And there was this whole thing about you two. Were you actually going to play each other? Because, mikey, tell us what, like your parents didn't let you actually play against each other, right? So, like, this was like the big rumor mill in junior tennis in Austin where you guys would get to the semis or finals and then your parents were like no, sir, you're not actually playing each other.

Speaker 1: 38:14

Yeah, yeah, my parents wanted us to be best friends as twins. There's a very delicate dynamic there, and so if one twin starts beating the other twin, you know that that's not good, because you're sleeping in the same bedroom and you're trying to be number one in the world, right. But if you're losing your twin that's sleeping right across from you, then how are you going to do that? So they knew, kind of, that was very delicate. So if we met in the finals of tournaments, they would have us flip a coin and we didn't mind. We were trophy collectors, we were going home both happy. But yeah, yeah, I think this was the Texas Open you're talking about. We remember seeing you.

Speaker 2: 38:48

We were playing with your brother.

Speaker 1: 38:49

right, we were playing with your brother and we remember you walking around just with a hat on big shoes, but just gangly, and hitting it against the backboard.

Speaker 2: 38:58

Andy, we weren't taking it, we didn't even take you serious.

Speaker 1: 39:00

You know, john, your big, your big bro was on the national team. We looked up to him. He was kind of like our junior idol, him and Goldstein, and you were just a little tag along. You're playing mini tennis on the sidewalk there in Austin and you know, we didn't even take you serious until you hit Sampras with that. That body serve at keep his game. And then it was. Then you kind of moved into the spotlight. But johnny, I mean, he was a legend at georgia. We actually played against him in in two ncaa finals and um uh you played, him you played him in the what route you, bob, you beat.

Speaker 1: 39:34

So my older brother, john, is a two-time ncaa coach of the year. Uh, great coach, was a good junior, was on a national team kind of in and around. When, when, when bob were there, uh, and then, bob, you beat him in what round of the ncaa singles semis. That was the greatest win of my whole career. I beat him in athens in the semis. Uh, beating a legend, john roddick, on his home court. Um, definitely there wasn't anything better than that for me in my singles career.

Speaker 2: 40:01

Yeah, you could have died playing the bulldogs.

Speaker 1: 40:04

Playing the bulldogs in georgia actually got us ready for davis cup, because that's the toughest environment in sports. We we got to play that team um, and the dogs are barking, they're, they're uh, pouring beer on our heads as we got balls um, yelling obscenities about our mom. You know that that's actually the most intimidating atmosphere in sports. I would say, are you saying that for effect? I mean, we played in front of 30, some odd thousand people in a soccer stadium yeah that, that was pretty that was pretty intimidating.

Speaker 1: 40:35

I mean, it was dizzying to look up and see all the spanish fans in sevilla. Yeah, that was cool. But this, when they're getting personal and they're and they're talking about your mom and you can understand the language, and these drunk fraternity guys are just out for blood, you pull your hat down and you try not to look up because if you make eye contact with these guys it's over. But that was, yeah, that was crazy. Athens, georgia, nothing like it. I wish the NCAAs would go back to Athens 6,500 barking dogs, dogs, nothing like it. I was, uh I've been, forever a fan of uga. My brother went there. I would have gone there, uh, had I gone to college. But you talk about kathy bryan. You're dead to me. So I'm just saying, right now bulldog nation, you're dead to me forever. Kathy bryan is a saint she doesn't have no enemies.

Speaker 1: 41:21

How dare you say something to her? You pricks Love Kathy Bryan, love Wayne Bryan. Always, you know, like when you guys were on tour, kind of young also, and had or still have your personalities which if you don't know the person can kind of get under skin. I played that role for a while. You guys never shied away from a battle. You know Mike's, I think Mike's thing, where he was ready to ask for forgiveness after the fact Maybe, maybe sometimes. But I always remember, you remember the people that are like really kind to you before you've earned kindness on the on the tour Right, and your, your, your parents were like that from from day one and you all were like that from from day one and you all, uh were like that because you were a little bit more established on tour.

Speaker 1: 42:06

When I came on, uh, from day one, um, before we kind of switch to some other issues, were you, were you pissed at bob when he uh interviewed for the davis cup captaincy without you? Um, I was actually right there with him, I, I, I thought he would be perfect for the job you know I got I. I was actually right there with him. I thought he would be perfect for the job. You know I was actually kind of urging him to do it. You know he looked at the list of applicants and you know it was like Brad Stein Gil. It was a long list of people and he didn't really want to go through the whole process of interviewing for months and I kind of pushed him there. I say, bob, wouldn't you um? But I said, if, if you do it, maybe bring me along, I'll be the assistant massage therapist help you out. So full circle, bob. Um, I know that there's pictures floating around of of you guys at Davis Cup ties. When you're young, uh, changed my world, uh, I saw the dallas final in 92. Um, I think we've, we've all been very outspoken about, uh, the effect it had on us. Uh, is that effect the same and is it? Do you feel a big responsibility to kind of make sure that davis cup has the same impact as it as it us? And is that possible now? Yeah, that's the challenge, right? We're missing some of those opportunities to inspire those young kids. The next, andy Roddick, you were at the matches. We all saw these young guys like Opelka, francis, Tiafoe, when they're little, 11, 12-year-olds at these Davis Cup matches. We're not going to have a home tie here in the States. It's going to be three years, I think, come next year. That's a lot of missed opportunities to bring tennis to smaller markets, yes, but also inspire people like us. So, yeah, I want to keep Davis Cup in the forefront.

Speaker 1: 44:02

We loved it. I know we all had this shared goal. You wanted that on your resume. We were talking about it January 1st, all of us. We didn't stop talking about it until we'd won the Cup, honestly, and we looked forward to these weeks. I mean, look, we were playing poker. We all had a great time in the hotels hanging out together, going out after the matches, enjoying those wins, and the atmospheres were insane, andy. I mean we were playing in front of 15,000 fans. We had the F-16s flying over pyrotechnics, the drum lines running out, Darius Rucker singing the national anthem. You know these are goosebump moments where our knees are actually knocking while we're in the line listening to the anthem. There was nothing like that. I would love to see it come back and get to that stage, but I think we have guys that are committed to playing and they want to win this cup. But yeah, they're not talking about it right now.

Speaker 1: 45:00

I can guarantee you it's a little different than when we were around.

Speaker 1: 45:05

I mean, we went to Croatia right after the US Open and we went over there and we played at a neutral site against, you know, great teams right Like Netherlands. We played against Finland and Croatia and there were five American fans. And you bring a guy over like Francis Tiafoe who just played a night match on Arthur Ashe Stadium in front of 22,000 American fans. So it's really hard for these guys to get up for it and they know the next week they're flying over to Vancouver to play the Labor Cup. So it's a lot to ask schedule-wise, but also you'd want these guys to be in these atmospheres where it's exciting. So it's a little bit different and we've got to bring that back to Davis Cup, I think. How does that happen in its current format or does it not happen in its current format? We've got to get out of the group stage. We take it to Malaga, hopefully get some excitement in the press, bring over a team of fans. We had those netheads that would come over in hundreds, you know that's.

Speaker 1: 46:05

Sevilla, like there was 27,500 Spanish fans, but we could always look at our net heads, you know to go nuts for us. Um, dude, that's Sevilla. That that was incredible because I remember that night, the Thursday night before the match, we were almost celebrating when they pulled out Juan Carlos Ferreiro, the French Open champion number whatever two in the world, and they were substituting it in a teenager named Rafael Nadal, who you, I think, beat at the US Open 3-4-0 a couple months before. We were all like, oh my God, they're idiots. I can't believe they're putting in Nadal. Yeah, roddick will never lose to Nadal on clay. That was dumb of them. We thought we had a chance. And then, well, marty had that short forehand against Moya and went for his, I think, went for his head, and the crowd booed for like 30 minutes. That kind of changed the low momentum. And then against Nadal, I felt like Nadal became Nadal in that match in front of his home fans and you were so disappointed that you had lost to the greatest clay court player of all time that when we got home and we got our check in the mail, it was like three times as big.

Speaker 1: 47:18

You sent us your prize money. I don't remember if you realize or remember that you sent us your money. You said give it to the bryans. You know I didn't earn it. I mean we kicked it back to your charity, but I don't think you would have given given away your prize money had you known this guy would have won 14 french opens. Well, I can actually make you a very honest man. Um, right now, uh, we played them again in 08 after rafa had won, I think, four straight uh French opens and I didn't send you guys after that. I don't think Mike was there for that one, so he certainly wasn't getting any money. Uh, I, but I I wasn't giving any money away after that one.

Speaker 1: 47:56

I felt like I earned my beating in 08, whereas I let one slip and uh, yeah, yeah, I think you had one set that went to six four and you're we were like, uh, celebrating that night, we're having a couple drinks. And you're like, yeah, do you guys? This is a side tangent, but do you want to hear one of the most depressing moments of my life? Real quick, sure, yeah, okay. So you, bob, was there, uh, or was it? Was it mike? Mike you played with? Did you play that second one, or?

Speaker 2: 48:17

it was bob I played with marty fish. Bob was having his firstborn child, mckay that's right okay, that's what it was and we played in the plaza del toro, and that's right that's right.

Speaker 1: 48:26

That's right. Um, yeah, and so this it was the you guys won double. You guys always won doubles, didn't matter you know who was playing with what. Um, it's like the undersold part is like you guys could just play and it was. It was great, um. But in 08 I remember this Sunday I was playing I had lost in to Ferrer in five sets. The first day, I think, I was down two sets and then came back and then lost. It was brutal, um. And then then the morning.

Speaker 1: 48:54

So I wake up the morning on Sunday in Spain and you look out the window and you know you're gonna play Nadal on clay. So I kind of like open, like this, and I look out and it's gray and raining and I'm like this sucks, this is a bad beat. Uh, I do not need to be playing on him, uh, on anything slower and muddier. So I go warm up and then they have that like live grainy feed into the locker room where you can see like center court. So I had warmed up and then all of a sudden I see a wheelbarrow going out onto the court. Right, I'm like what the f*** is that? Wheelbarrow and a shovel, and some guy has a shovel and he's just shoveling clay onto the court and the other guy's patting it down. I'm like so the rain, the general goatness of him on clay.

Speaker 1: 49:43

I felt like half embarrassed because they were paying so much attention to me for this match when they really didn't need to. I was going to go out and be a dumpster fire anyways. It was a complete suicide mission. But but those were the fun things about the home and away. I mean, you know when you play on the road they're going to play us on the slowest, soupiest dirt. Uh, I remember belg, like they threw dirt down into that, that indoor arena, and the court wasn't even hardened. You know the the ball was like an explosion. It was like that Powerade commercial that you did the ball would like stick in the court. It was real and I think we got a fortunate call and I remember the Pistone, our security guys, the brothers you know, running us out of there because they were that whole place was going to come down on us it was the single worst call.

Speaker 1: 50:28

I've ever been the beneficiary of the one that, that that you're referencing, and I remember walking up to like correct it and I remember you all and patrick yelling at me, turn the around go back so I ended up breaking and we got mike producer mike like literally we were playing.

Speaker 1: 50:46

It's probably only 2500 people, it wasn't like the biggest stadium ever, but it was like we were going to be relegated and we win. But they I mean they called an overhead out that was maybe six inches inside the line and I had corrected a call earlier that year and given a match away. And so I start walking up and my entire bench just starts yelling at me it's not about you move, get back.

Speaker 1: 51:10

So anyways, we're closing out. We needed every point against that little guy rocus. He was a magician, pound for pound, yes, pound for pound, one of the best. Uh, didn't he win? He won the french open, and doubles too. Yep, with melisse he could stripe it, man. Anyways, we held serve and we get trash thrown on us as we're leaving. Like they start throwing things, like that was a weird situation. Well, davis Cup journey came full circle in Portland. I still feel like that's the highlight of our career Winning the Davis Cup at the Rose Garden in front of a packed crowd.

Speaker 1: 51:46

We played the Russians. It was like a Rocky movie and I remember you got it done and James got it done on the first day. So Bob and I had the opportunity to clinch for the country. And when I was serving out the match I looked over. I saw how emotional you were. On the sideline you were already crying and you know, getting it done, kind of the elation we piled up on the court, took it out late to the clubs you know had a. I think we had like a 4 am morning. I remember you tapped me on the shoulder at like 4 am. I think you were drenched in sweat. You'd been dancing all night and you said, hey, guess what, you're playing the dead rubber tomorrow, live on the tennis channel. You're playing. And then I walk over, I see Bob in the corner. I tapped him. I'm like, guess what? You're playing the dead rubber.

Speaker 1: 52:40

And we had this big battle that night and we ended up calling my parents and and then they voted. They're like okay, bob, bob's he's usually been the singles horse, bob's got to do it. And then I, I, uh, I think I pulled an all nighter with you. Bob had to get some sleep and uh, played Andrea the next day. So that went from the best night of my life to the worst night of my life. You guys threw me to the wolves the next day. You might have had a few too many to drink. I don't think you could have passed the breathalyzer test on Sunday to play that. I mean, we had that Davis Cup. I remember we were filling it with booze. I'm sure I don't know what you mean. I don't understand the beer olympics the beer olympics was good

Speaker 2: 53:30

remember you had the beer olympics in austin.

Speaker 1: 53:32

I remember that. I remember all of my bad decisions. Um, I, yeah, I'm I'm not proud of this moment. I feel badly talking to you now, bob, especially because you came on uh this podcast so nicely. Um, I'm.

Speaker 1: 53:46

So the Davis Cup, I remember I was the nerviest I was was I think I was confident that I could beat Toursnoff. I think that the popcorn match of that weekend was probably James against Yuzny. First up, yuzny was a really good fast court player. We basically built the fast court for you guys. I think you guys like slower courts more than we did, but specifically in that matchup, I think who they throw in that was a great court for you all in that final.

Speaker 1: 54:18

But when James beat Yuzny, I was really happy because obviously you guys, I was very confident. You guys were always super nervous and I was always super not nervous when you guys were going in and I guess that's the nature of sports. But I think it was fitting. Um, we've talked about how I kind of came up short a lot uh in those Davis Cup ties when we were trying to to to get to the finish line, but I think it was fitting that you all had it on your rackets. Uh, to close it out and to close up the shared goal, you, you were the dominant force uh, yeah, we didn't have many times to clinch.

Speaker 1: 54:53

I think you were 14 and 0 in clinching, uh, fourth rubbers, like so when we felt like when we teed you up, you, you knocked it down all the time and we were very nervous, like we always were for davis cups. It's, it's, you're playing for your country, but really you're playing for your brothers. You know we're're playing for your brothers. You know we're taking over 20 people national team. You know security, massage, therapist, stringers and you become buddies and friends and blood brothers with all these guys and you don't want to let them down. They're relying on you to step up. So around Wednesday our match was Saturday I really couldn't even talk anymore, I was just in my own head. I think the most nervous we ever were was the 2003, our first Davis Cup match. Because you'd been on the team for a couple of years leading up Pat Mack. He was a little scared to pick us because there was only a four-man team. He didn't want to have half the team be doubles players. What happens if you rolled your ankle on Friday? So he actually told us that you got to be number one in the world, you got to win a grand slam, you got to be a shoe-in to play. So he invited us to the slovakia match. It wasn't an easy match. It was a relegation tie. Had we lost that, we're going to jamaica. You know, the next year we're playing let's with uh, you know, no doubles, alleys or something. But um pat said hey guys, you guys are our team, you're a team for years, don't worry about this one. But we knew if we lost that one, we're done. And I remember we came out so jacked we were bouncing around like crazy people and Mike whispered to me at the end we're up two sets of love. He whispered to me at the end of the third set. He's like like, hey, I'm cramping. I'm like, wait, we're indoors, it's doubles, how are you cramping? He's like I feel I felt a twinge in my calf and then we get to the breaker. He's like dude, I'm, I'm full body cramping right now, just from the nerves, the anxiety, the whole build-up. Our first davis cup match. He's full body cramping. It's one all, you know. One, one match all. And he's like I had come off the us open and I put you guys in a terrible spot because I lost my first match of that tie to her body. Yes, yeah, you did. And mike said we got to finish it here. So I remember we have match point.

Speaker 1: 57:04

Mike somehow fights a return over the net. A ball goes short in front of mike. He can't move. I run in front of him. I hit a forehand winner. We end up winning. I come in for the chest bump. He gets like one inch off the ground, he's sideways and my hip hits him right in the forehead and anyway, it was an amazing moment. That was actually the cover of tennis magazine back in the day. I remember that it's a weird shot because I'm flying in and mike can't barely use credit card. Hops, yeah and uh. But that was our yeah, that was our first one, and pat, you know, trusted us and we became the team. But I felt like we needed to get it done that day. But mike was cramping only time he's ever cramped and usually don't you don't cramp indoor doubles, match with with air conditioning. And then that and then that started the long journey of Mike going gluten-free, sugar-free, air-free, water-free, whatever the other frees you are.

Speaker 1: 57:58

I would say I would say remember Dr Farid, he would give us, he gave us those drinks and he put a lot of creatine in those drinks and I was pounding those, but it yeah, well, it was the nerves, you know. I knew if we would have lost that first one, pat would have said okay, you know, on to the next doubles team. So you know, when you're tight, everything tightens up right the muscles and you burn a lot of energy. But luckily, bob, with that four-hand winner and we finished the match because I was full on, I was like a scarecrow out there, a mannequin, it is true, though, like you, never, I've never, once in my life cramped. You cramp, like at the end of the day, like in bed, your toes cramp or something, but I've never cramped in practice, ever in my life. But then the nerves and the weight of everything Talk about the nerves for most, and I'll put a button on what you guys just said. Like there was.

Speaker 1: 58:52

I remember having a conversation with with patrick and he was like what do you think about? I'm like well one, the clarity provided as like a singles player, of knowing the cadence of your week, is like invaluable. But I also said, let's not think of it on like a match by match basis. Like, can we get through this with the insurance policy and throw Marty in who's you know very, very capable doubles player with someone else and get through? Yeah, probably. But what is our best chance to win this whole thing? Like and that's the easiest conversation that's ever been had it's with Bob and Mike. Like, what are we doing? Like, of course it's with, and there is an element of risk. But I my argument was like I think it's riskier not to have them. Like I, I think it's riskier not to have them. So, like what are we? We're going to talk about risk. I think they went on both sides of it. Yeah, I mean, look, we're happy that Pat made that opinion, because those matches are the ones remember we're four or five years into retirement and those are the ones that still give us those chills win or lose. We had some tough losses, andy, you did too. We all felt that bitter taste in our mouth and those are the ones that keep you up at night. But it's really those emotions that I'm trying to kind of convey to the next generation. You know the guys that are on the fence about Davis Cup Guys, these are the ones that you're going to really remember when it's all said and done. Yeah, one another.

Speaker 1: 1:00:24

While we're on the kind of the playing for your country thing, I want you guys to talk about winning the Olympics, specifically in 2012. I think it's fitting in an Olympic year, but you all had done all of the things by 2012,. It was kind of readily accepted that you guys were either the best doubles team ever or on your way to becoming the best doubles team ever. So the only argument was about timing and counting stats at that point. But you hadn't won in 2004, but you hadn't won in 04, you hadn't won in 08. So talk about going into the 2012 olympics and the pressure set with knowing that this, this could be a thing that could potentially, if you don't win it this time. You know, 16 wasn't guaranteed at that moment, 20 certainly wasn't guaranteed at that moment. Talk about you all going into that tournament. Did you talk about it as something different? Did you? You understand the weight of it? What was that like and what were the kind of, I guess, the mental ramifications going into that event versus, you know, a slam at that point? Yeah, I mean 2012,. We were 34 years old. 35 years old. When Andre retired was ancient. There were no guarantees past mid 30irties in singles or doubles.

Speaker 1: 1:01:33

It's all changed now with the longevity we're seeing out there, but there's a sense of urgency with the Olympics right, tennis is always about the next opportunity. If you don't win the French Open, you've got to crack at Wimbledon. You know this one. That onelympics is different. You got to wait four years. You know you got to be top in your country or you're not going. Um, and and everyone always asks us what would you rather win, a grand slam or the olympics?

Speaker 1: 1:02:01

I think for singles you take a grand slam, you know you put yourself in the history books. It really validates everything you've done your whole life. I've heard the number if you win a grand slam is worth30 million in endorsements and this, and that it opens the door to the Hall of Fame. But for doubles that's different. You're not making headlines, you're not playing on TV every day. A lot of people don't know the doubles players, but winning a gold medal kind of takes you to that global audience. It's the trophy that everyone wants to hold.

Speaker 1: 1:02:31

I just did career day here at my kid's school and I brought the gold medal and I passed it around. The kids were freaking out holding it. It's like a celebrity onto itself and you know we've done charity events where we put the gold medal around people's neck. Hey, we'll charge you a hundred bucks for a gold medal pick and we'll'll raise like $20,000. So it's really cool and it was just like the Davis Cup. It was a journey. We didn't win it in 2004 right away. It took a lot of heartache to really get those emotions and you were crying because it didn't come easy. It's always something that you wanted, but it didn't come easy In 2004,. We were a shoe-in Sports Illustrated, said the Bryans. They've got the gold. We're on the doorstep of the medal rounds in the quarterfinals.

Speaker 1: 1:03:15

We're watching our opponent, nico Massou, playing in singles before our doubles match. It's 100 degrees, his face is red. He's playing a four-hour match. We're licking our chops in the locker room saying he's not even going to play. He wins his singles. We thought he was in default. He goes out for the doubles, we're up a break. His face is just be red and he does a throat slash to his trainer like I'm done, and we're like, yay, we got metal. And then his trainer runs out and gives him espresso. I don't know, but he became a different guy and we end up. He took us out. It was the only time we ever lost to Masu and Gonzalez and Doubles.

Speaker 1: 1:03:56

It was a quiet car ride back to the hotel. We were actually on a flight three hours later back to the States. We were so pissed, we didn't enjoy the Olympic experience, we just wanted out of there. We didn't stay in the village like you did, we stayed at the hotel because we were so focused. And then 08 comes around and and we got to do it number one seat again.

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

We make it to the metal rounds. We're in the semis. We lose a heartbreaker at 3 am to some swiss guys and we have to play hours later. And in tennis you lose a match, you're on a flight, but we got to play. We're heartbroken, but we're out there playing for something shiny. We have to leave with a medal. We're playing Lodra Santoro who beat us in the Wimbledon final. They actually stripped down to their underwear and kind of danced on our grave when we're at the trophy ceremony, so there was some built-up stuff against them. Down a break in the third. We win the bronze.

Speaker 1: 1:04:52

Macker, our coach he's not an emotional guy, he was crying. You know we go in the locker room. We come around the corner. Lodra Santoro are crying. You know we're smiles ear to ear. We're dancing to the Nash, the Swiss national anthem.

Speaker 1: 1:05:07

On the metal stand all hugs. We're going through the security in Beijing airport. The security guy sees this you know dark disc in our bag. He pulls it out. It's the bronze metal. He's taking pictures with it. We're getting mobbed. We fly home, you know, to California, and we show it to our trainer. Hey, gary, check out our bronze. He's like oh, I'm sorry guys. I'm like what do you mean? You're sorry, this is the best thing that's ever happened to us. He's like oh, and then we start making excuses for why we won the bronze. You know it went from the front of our trophy case to the kitchen drawer and it just became a pain in the ass that we had to, like talk, tell this long story of why we didn't win the gold.

Speaker 1: 1:05:50

So then, you know, 34 years old, we went to London. There was a sense of urgency. We had to win that gold. It all came together. We won seven tiebreakers during that time. It was two out of three sets on grass doubles, small margins. We got it. We played the French guys again in the finals and you know it was one of those moments. You know there was no tears on the metal stand. We were in shock and I think it was cincinnati a few weeks later that we were in our rental car and we just started screaming. It finally hit us and I had the gold in my racket bag. I carried it around in my bag for like six months, brought it out at bars. It was like a chick magnet, you know, and I, I for Mike, for Mike, cause I was married.

Speaker 1: 1:06:41

Bob, I remember your, your, your gold medal. It had so many scuffs on it and it wasn't even a circle anymore. You're handing it out to so many, they're dropping it and it was actually like almost a square, and I kept mine in at my house. I shined it up, it was in the front, I had lights shining on it and then bob did the old switcheroo, came out to california and put his little square. It didn't, it wasn't even gold, it looked silver, you know, and then took my gold out to Miami and it's pretty fun.

Speaker 1: 1:07:14

Where do you stay currently then? Well, it's in the safe. But Mike, yeah, mike had this mint condition gold medal in the safe. My ribbon was all tattered, you know. And so I did the switcheroo. I'm like, hey, I want a fresh one. And he called me, like it was like a year later. He was like you, son of a bitch, give me my gold medal back. So he hadn't even looked at it. So, anyway, my, my gold medals got some mileage on it. I love that. And so the swiss, the swiss guys you were referencing, that was kratishville and lommer uh, exactly no. But uh it we. It was funny that the match before us was like a 21-19 in the third. So we got on at 3 am or 1 am and we expected there to be no fans there. But there was a Swiss Army of like 10,000. Yeah, people like watching Federer. So do I. Yeah, I don't Screw him. Yeah, I don't Screw him. So the lot's made of.

Speaker 1: 1:08:13

I feel like too often when I'm talking to people, about you all, about you two. I saw the work and the muscle memory created through practice. One of my favorite things of Davis Cup weeks was because, like, when you're on tour, you're going to practice, you're going to leave, like I'm not going to stick around Washington to watch Bob and Mike hit, like four hours after I practice. Like that's just not the way the orbit goes when you're on tour. Davis Cup is a different thing. You're all sharing the same transportation. You have a set block. They're on either right before you or right after you block. They're on either right before you or right after you.

Speaker 1: 1:08:55

Um, and I feel like too often you guys get explained away by people who even know tennis as oh yeah, that's just that, that's the twin thing. I'm like mother, it's not the twin. They literally spend eight out like you'll hit a great volley go, that's the twin thing. I'm like I'm sure there's an element of that and I want you all to define what that is in a second. But I find myself getting mad that it's become a catch all for your skill set, which is a joke. Like Mike, I'll literally producer Mike, I'll literally watch them and because they've hit the same ball against each other for so many years, they'll go. They would go 40 minutes in a practice like this unspoken thing One would go up, hit volleys, the other one would go, and it wouldn't be like this. There would be no stop. It was like this ongoing, like rhythmic thing. But like I don't, like that's not a twin thing. That's a lifetime of work thing and I hate that it gets pigeonholed when someone makes a great cross or a great read or sticks a return, like mike sticking a return, uh, you know, on break point isn't because bob's close, it's because he's like the best returner in doubles history. Like, how do you define, like the, the, the kind of sensory stuff that where you know where the person's going to be, versus you know the skill set built up, because I find myself wanting to defend the skill set and work more than kind of giving credit to just you two in proximity is that is that nuts.

Speaker 1: 1:10:21

We were, as you saw, our practices. We were crazy, intense, right like we. We really uh, pushed each other. We had our, our practices like clockwork. We'd done them so many times since, literally like three, four years old, we were working on doubles, coming up when guys are mainly focusing on singles. My dad had us doing these doubles drills and hitting for the alleys, and so when we were out there, we were just moving, moving, moving, but we were practicing like we wanted to play, pretty much Like every shot had a consequence. If I missed a shot, bob would like roll his eyes like he expected the best out of me held the bar so damn high like we. You know, you saw our practices. They're they're pretty intense. There'd be some blow-ups, some stuff said um, but we were just holding each other to, uh, to a really high standard and, uh, we just wanted to be the best man, like we wanted to play that Davis Cup in the Olympics, and we knew that we had to be the number one team and we really just we were perfectionists. We hated to lose and every day in practice it felt like we were playing matches. So you know that goes into it.

Speaker 1: 1:11:31

But also the twin dynamic and sharing a womb together and and practicing every day together and being in the hotel room playing music together, that whole team chemistry and twin energy that that felt like when we're on the court it was like one blob of energy. It was like this two headed monster we're moving together, covering for each other. There's this kind of unspoken communication where it really did flow. Well, we're anticipating. I can look at Bob's face and know where are you, what he was feeling, where he's going to hit his serve. We didn't really even speak in between points. Right, we just used a couple of code, twin language words and we like to play quick. But you know, communication was our kind of, our biggest strength, but it could also be our biggest foe, right?

Speaker 1: 1:12:19

You know the sibling tension could sometimes surface on the practice court, sometimes in matches. You know it would bubble up. You know, when you're playing with your brother, in high pressure moments, right, you feel like you can say anything to your bro that you wouldn't say to a normal partner, like I wouldn't say that you have but your, your twin, you know you've shared a room with forever, you share a bank account with right. Then then things are said that are that are pretty hurtful. I know exactly Bob's weak spots, I know all his insecurities and I'll drop a little bomb and sometimes it'll explode. We played our best and we didn't say much, but there were a few moments where it did happen and we're not proud of it, right. But I think it's normal as brothers.

Speaker 1: 1:13:09

If you're a brother, and especially a twin, you're going to have these moments and I worked every day with my bro and it's like you're going to the office and we're taking it so seriously. So, yeah, there are a few and I know we talked about these in Charlotte and I know you probably brought us on your podcast to maybe mention a couple of these moments. Yes, yes, in no uncertain terms, yes, because this is so. There's a couple I want to just reference and then I would like, uh, you all to take it wherever you want. There was, uh, a guitar situation in in London one time. There was someone getting knocked out in Australia which I only learned about like six months ago.

Speaker 1: 1:13:53

And don't spare us details. Tell us, kind of when this relationship which on paper and you guys have always been so fluent with media with you know you're the first two people out growing the game every week. You guys are, like, you know, without knowing these moments of stress, you're like a walking double mint, commercial, right, it's like this, these. Like you're like a half polo, uh, ad half. Like you know you could sell anything. You could sell, you know, ice to uh, someone in alaska, uh, but give it. Tell us a couple of these stories.

Speaker 1: 1:14:26

I'll take it back to, oh six. Uh, we hadn't won Wimbledon the year before we played Huss Moody in the finals. They were a qualifier team On paper. That's a gimme. They're the only qualifying team to win Wimbledon. We lost that match Two weeks before we lost the French Open final. We had break points in the third, didn't get it done.

Speaker 1: 1:14:50

Show up at Wimbledon just kind of being there a year later after not winning against the qualifier team, there was some tension. The monkey was growing on our back. It was the only one we had won. Like I said, we're playing first round on a field court. You know there's only 20, 20 people on this side of the court, 20 people on the other side of the court. We're in the weeds and we're playing Jordan Kerr and Amir Delik, a fellow American. We should get this one done in straights and move on. We're down a break two sets to one and a break in the fourth, a break in the fifth. We scrape by. We went 11-9 in the fifth. A lot of people would be relieved and happy. We were pissed off and we're discussing the match in the transportation car going back to the Airbnb and we're both playing Monday morning quarterback pointing and those pointing fingers we turn into shoves and then now we're swinging at each other, the car's rocking side to side.

Speaker 1: 1:15:50

Wait in the car, in the drive, by the way, let me set the, just let me. Don't let me interrupt for too long. But like you have drivers, there's a volunteer position, right, and so maybe the driver, and they're normally like tennis fans, like you know, you get a conversation and they do such a service every week. But imagine being like, oh my God, it's going to be cool. The Brian's are coming, they're the best doubles team in the world. Okay, go Bob. So this poor lady, she's scared for life.

Speaker 1: 1:16:14

The car is going side to side. It's car is swerving. Our coach is in the front seat. He's trying to reach back and break it up. Anyway, we get to the, to the house. It's kind of settled down a little bit.

Speaker 1: 1:16:28

We're getting our bags out of the car and Mike bitch slaps me in the face and then he takes off running up the stairs and I just drop my bag. I'm running after him, I'm running after him. He grabs the rails of the stairs and Mule kicks me off the stairs into the bushes and I just bounce up like Terminator and I'm running after him. We run all the way to the third floor. He locks himself in the bathroom. I barely miss him. I'm banging on the door like a, like a scene out of the shiny, and I can't get it, I can't get in. So I all I see is this shiny prize possession is Taylor guitar and I splintered that thing. That thing you couldn't take it to a repair shop and put it back together. That thing was toast.

Speaker 1: 1:17:17

But the funny thing is, like five minutes later we're having dinner and that's the freaky thing about twins. We always say when we see friends we're like those are freaks, or twins, those are freaks. Because we were having, we're having dinner five minutes later and I actually realized, damn, we share a bank account. That guitar was half mine, you know. So I just blew up half of my guitar too, but it released a little steam Like we would being the number one team.

Speaker 1: 1:17:44

You know, having those expectations, keeping the bar high in everything we did, it would boil up. Keeping the bar high and in everything we did, it would boil up and and we would let it out and and we're not proud of it, of sometimes these ways but we went on to win the tournament and we played some of our best tennis because that kind of locked us back in and we let go of all that stuff from the year before, from the French open, and then then it flowed. Um, so, yeah, I mean, and I know you want to talk about, you know, the time that one of us was knocked out Um, no one, no one knows that story. Uh, we told it at your charity event. I think we'd had a couple but uh.

Speaker 1: 1:18:26

I actually want to. I have a follow-up and then I want to get to that, the knockout. But, Mike, the hit and run is an interesting play for you because obviously, technical volleys return. You're like the Tim Duncan, like everything is just kind of perfect. You're just in the position you need to be. You make it look easier than it is, but speed, I'm going with Bob. Did you think you were going to get away with a hit and run? Looking after the team, I mean, I knew Bob could have killed me. I saw the look in his eye and he was coming at me like a bull and I had to lock the door and literally like he was coming through the door Like here, not, here comes Johnny, here comes Bobby, right, right. But you know it is weird.

Speaker 1: 1:19:11

Johnny, here comes Bobby, right, he's coming through the door, right. But you know, it is weird, like we always knew we were a package deal and these fights get like they get buried pretty quick and we could, like we knew we were always going to stay together so we would have these blowups, and they actually led to greater times, greener pastures. If this happened with, like Knowles and Nest Nest or anyone you know, they'd never talk again, right, but it's just, it's funny. And then, yeah, I mean the one in 2017, this is probably our biggest of them all and we've only told this story one time to a few people at your charity event, and so right now, we're going live with it, right, but it was kind of a dark period of our career. We hadn't won a slam for a couple years.

Speaker 2: 1:19:57

Oh, no, that must be horrible. Can you imagine producer Mike, can you?

Speaker 1: 1:20:03

imagine not winning a slam for a couple years. What F***ing losers. Our chemistry was fractured, right? Bob was living in Miami. I was in california. Um, our coach even let us go like macker said, hey, you guys are too far gone. He actually fired us. Um, so, come on, this is. This is after the open, when you know the hopes of winning the slam are gone. You're playing indoors. You don't see the sun for for days.

Speaker 1: 1:20:28

We're in Antwerp in a dungeon playing cards. I'm going through a tough personal life event. I'm getting a divorce, right. I'm checking my phone, I'm trying to check for lawyers, but we're, you know, we're playing cards. We like to play cards and we're playing hards. A dollar, a point. Bob's killing me. He's Venmo-ing me for a thousand bucks every couple days and Bob's killing me. You know, he's Venmo me for a thousand bucks every couple of days and he's the dealer. I see that he kind of bottom deal me. So I give him a whack on the back of the head Right, and and I did that about I gave him like maybe 10 love taps during that week because I was stressed, right. And then he looked at me. He's like if you ever do that again, I'm going to knock you out. So yeah, he's like, if you ever do that again, I'm going to knock you out. Yeah, so fast forward a couple months.

Speaker 1: 1:21:14

Like Mike said, we're looking for some magic in our careers we hadn't had in a couple years. We grabbed that Babelot racket that you're used to. We're stubborn with this Prince. There's no technology on this Prince racket. We were like, hey, we need a little extra pop. We have the Babelot. We're this Prince racket. We were like, hey, we need a little extra pop. We have the Babelot. We're down in Australia. We only use it for a week. We're playing our first round match Aussie open backcourt, hot day, windy, balls are flying. We're playing two guys we've never heard of. We've heard of them now, but at the time Nishioka and Fuchevich. We had no clue who these guys were. And we're losing and balls are getting away anyway.

Speaker 1: 1:21:51

Mike has some overheads, doesn't put them away, end up losing the point. And I say, hey, let's put it away next time. Jackass. And and he hit me on the back of the head again. He just he gave me that one of those taps on the back of the head and I he was behind me. As a reflex, I was triggered. I just turned and I swung. I didn't know where I was swinging, but I caught Mike perfect right in the back of the head and he dropped like a sack of potatoes. And I'm like, oh God. And I looked down and he's just laying there motionless and I gave him a couple shakes. And I don like, oh God. And I looked down, he's just laying there motionless and I gave him a couple shakes and I don't get get anything. And then suddenly his eyes pop wide open like Bob Barker and he goes congratulations, you just made sports center. And I'm like, oh, and then he, he wobbles to his chair, gets smelling, smelling salts, does this whole song and dance with the trainer and, um, anyway, we got kind of scared. We're like, oh god that that's never happened.

Speaker 1: 1:22:58

The crowd was actually laughing because they thought it was like a skit, like monster barami, and the only people that weren't laughing was our coach, macker, and, and this guy, dave marshall. They knew exactly. They knew the history from Antwerp, they knew what I said to Mike with the card games. They knew Mike was actually out cold and, just like we did, we locked in, we won the match in three sets. We go back to the locker room and I'm like, hey, mike, we got to get our story straight here. Man, we're going into a press conference. We expect it to be packed. You know, a couple hundred journalists want to know about the first time that someone's been knocked out on a Grand Slam match. And I'm like, hey, let's just get it straight here. Let's just, you know, say, hey, we faked it, blah, blah, blah. Mike's like, hey, tell them the truth, man, tell, punch me. You know, I'm like I'm going to tell him that. You know, you hit me on the back head. I told you I'd knock you out and I did. Anyway, we we walked slowly to this press conference and we opened the door and there's two people it's Bill Simon and no one's, no one even knows about it.

Speaker 1: 1:24:05

Federer was losing to Seppi on center court. Every eyeball in that whole site was on Federer. It went unnoticed. I guess the TV didn't really pick it up. Nadia, mike's current wife, was actually watching her first tennis match at the time and she was watching it from New York. And she texted my wife, michelle, back in Florida and said what just happened there. And Michelle's like you know, don't worry about it. It's, I get it, don't worry, I see this every day. So, anyway, you know, the only guy that actually had footage footage of this is this guy do some image one of our buddies and he put it to like a boomerang techno beat and had Mike going down popping back up like a like a little like a little puppet, but anyway, like like Wimbledon in 06, it kind of released this tension and, at 40 years old, we kind of went on a little bit of a resurgence.

Speaker 1: 1:25:02

You know finals Indian Wells, one, miami, one, monte Carlo, finals of Madrid before I blew my hip out and we went back to number one in the world. But it all started with Mike dropping like a sack of potatoes. Oh, my God, these stories are so a little bit of a cheap shot. Yeah, I remember, I remember trying to read the menu that night at dinner and the words were a little fuzzy. I told the waitress to turn down the lights, to turn on the lights. Yeah, yeah, concussion. This is just, this is this, this is, uh, we're actually. I I'm glad you guys are here because I'm announcing that, uh, we're actually. The podcast is over, mike, this is it, this is. Those stories are peak and no one's.

Speaker 1: 1:25:47

We're not having anyone ever again we don't condone violence like these are are some. These are some, these are some low moments, but like we never were as close as we've ever been. Like we, we didn't hold any grudges but we never we never fractured. Like we didn't go back to the locker room and hey Bob knocked me out. We didn't go talk about this to other players. You see that during, sometimes in losses and tough matches, the players split up, they go to opposite sides of the locker room and they start talking behind each other's back. We never did that. We always sat right next to each other, we took our lumps and literally, yeah, literally. But like we played thousands of matches together, it's going to gonna get ugly sometimes.

Speaker 1: 1:26:31

So let's do an awkward, uh transition into pride. Um, because as much pride as I have in these stories, uh, because I think they're the way that you tell them. In this whole twin thing that you have is like something that outside looking in, is just not something that anyone can understand, even if you could understand the twin thing. Like imagine taking that into these pressure situations, a lifetime of work, realizing you're dependent on someone else, like it's just the layering of what you all have done, the mental gymnastics involved, the shared of money, houses, uh, like you, your personal lives, that you know someone so intimately back. I mean, it's just like I think it's just a fascinating uh story, and I think these funny stories kind of give just like a little glimpse, um, and frankly, I think I I like them because they're endearing and also it makes you guys feel like normal, right, like there's this like excellence, but also mixed in is like this petulance that we all kind of feel sometimes when you all kind of look back at the totality of your career, right, so, winning every major, all the master series, olympics, davis Cup, what are your kind of biggest pride points, either for the other person, like we did it together, or is it titles or is it, you know, consistency, what? What are the kind of the biggest pride points where you look back and like what makes you emotional?

Speaker 1: 1:28:06

Looking back, we did, we played for 23 years, um, and we did stay together. Yeah, we had our moments, but we, we did it as a team, as brothers. That's what really made that, that process on the tour special, um, you got your best friend on the road doing it and, and it wasn't always high moments, right, we had, you know, I don't know how many grand slam finals we lost we. We had some really difficult ones right 14. 14.

Speaker 2: 1:28:33

It's a lot right.

Speaker 1: 1:28:36

But but we, we, we stuck it out, yeah, and just to be able to now share that kind of beyond the court now and just kind of reminisce and and our I feel like our relationship's tighter now than it's ever been. We got kids, uh, we want them to all play together. Um, but looking back, we, we, uh, we went really hard and we have really no regrets just because we didn't take any vacations. We, right after we came back from the world tour finals, we were back working out together in the gym. We just really professional and um, and just really, yeah, we set the bar really high and we wrote down our goals every year and we really went after them together. I kind of had this shared energy, this shared mission, this shared focus to do it and to help promote doubles, because I mean doubles was suffering a little bit during the middle of our career. So we wanted to make doubles bigger and kind of, you know, have a platform there, but to make it through the mire of all those you know ups and downs kind of the roller coaster and stay strong with your twin. And we have unconditional love for each other. So that's probably what I'm most proud about, bob. Yeah, look, I mean that kind of summarizes, yeah, our bond, our relationship. That's probably what I'm most proud about, bob. Yeah, look, I mean that that kind of summarizes, yeah, our, our bond, our relationship, which is, at the end of the day, the most important, um, that we are still talking to each other. We, we live on different sides of Florida but we're on the phone four times a day. You know, if I see something cool at a heat game, I'm calling mike. Oh, dude, this guy had this dunk, you know. So we, we still share this bond. I would love to see mike get down to miami and, you know, get the band back together, because we've spent millions of hours jamming together. But, um, yeah, and look, I was proud of mike when I was injured. I had my hip replaced. You know, I was proud. Mike went out and he won a couple more slams with Jack Sock. Yeah, did that hurt me to see him out there having success without me For a moment? It did, it did. It was tough. When he was playing the Wimbledon final on TV, I was in the gym doing push-ups, but at the end of the day, I was actually proud of him. That's a Brian out there representing and he took me back. I got my hip replaced and then five months later he took me back. He didn't have to. And you know, one of my greatest moments is actually coming back and defending that Miami open title in my, in my backyard, you know, with a metal hip, and doing doing that, uh with Mike. You know that was that was the one time I actually got a little misty eyed out during the trophy ceremony. Um, I it's, I want to.

Speaker 1: 1:31:21

We've taken plenty of looks backwards as the two guys that will forever kind of defined, peak in doubles. Because you know, I think your numbers are so safe, because the ability to kind of keep going even through those moments, instead of switching partners, even the most successful partnerships or what I'm telling you your business, what six, seven years at a time, and then something happens, or someone marries someone and someone like it just doesn't always work out. So one that, that responsibility. And also there's a lot of new talk around different doubles formatting. How do you see the future of doubles playing out? And what can you two do to kind of spread the gospel of doubles, even though you're not currently in it week to week? How do you still have that footprint in the game and specifically in doubles.

Speaker 1: 1:32:15

Yeah, I mean, look, doubles has evolved a lot over the years. The 80s, you know, you had the Cern, volley, mack, fleming Everyone was playing kind of similar to their singles games. Courts were faster, there's a lot more singles players playing. 90s came along, you had the Woodies introducing some poaching strategy. 2000s come along. We come along with kind of a power doubles. We're getting close to the net. A lot of movement. Now it's gone to kind of an exclusive eye formation, which I'm not sure that doubles was ever meant to be played like this.

Speaker 1: 1:32:46

There's been these changes that have been that are going to be implemented soon Pace of play, which I like, all these these new initiatives. Fans can come in on change during the play. They can come in on the sides of the court. 15 second shot clock, less changeovers. I think this all helps the product of doubles, makes it more entertaining. What's worrisome is that the 12 day tournaments that are singles tournaments. They're going to streamline it to five day doubles tournaments. So this means less hotel rooms that directors have to pay for. So they're maybe streamlining the doubles event to save money. And that's kind of what we were dealing with in 2005 when we filed that lawsuit and we helped kind of bring back doubles a little bit. So we're still on the road. We're going to Wimbledon I'm Davis Cup captain Mike's there with Davis Cup going to the Olympics. We're going to spread the gospel and try to keep doubles where it should be.

Speaker 1: 1:33:48

I think the doubles players could help out by staying together a little longer. You know, maybe have countrymen playing together. I think doubles could have even been bigger had the Indian Express pay as Bupati stayed together longer. They were household names, a crazy phenomenon in India. But you're right, it's like a marriage and marriages don't always work out and there's a lot of pressure. There's points, money, there's travel and teams break up. But if the countries could stay together, especially during an Olympic year, if they could wear the names on the back of the shirts, fans might start to recognize these guys and gain traction. There's a few things that could be done, but I do think the pace of play initiatives coming out are going to help.

Speaker 1: 1:34:35

Looking forward, you mentioned and I've always thought you guys were really interesting, also because you kind of become obsessed with stuff away from the court also, like as as as as much of a maniac as as mike is about everything. He kind of takes that away from the court. Also. And you, you kind of made a quick reference, uh, to your band, but like every single week ever, like you would, if you're staying at the same hotel and you're walking down the hallway, you would hear music coming from their room and it's something. You guys have become great musicians, and I know Michaela sang the national anthem at the US Open. So it's weird that you kind of have this like this, like this sub job, but you've trained yourself to be good in even a different space. It's like you didn't get enough of each other having to play off of each other for paychecks. You had to do it in your spare time too for a long time.

Speaker 1: 1:35:26

Yeah, music's a huge passion in our lives. I feel like you do have a lot of time on tour, you practice and then you have a lot of free hours. So we felt like that secondary passion was huge for us. Bob would always bring his keyboard, I'd bring a travel guitar and we'd have that time in hotel rooms working on our chops, you know, and jamming together. But it all goes back to my dad. He was, you know, he didn't allow TV in our house, so we had these instruments in our living room so he taught us how to play. You know all the oldie songs growing up. When we went off to Stanford, we started kind of learning the theory of music a little bit and studying it. A lot of our friends are musicians just because we love music so much. But yeah, then we started this band thing right and we had this album out in 2008. We had dreams of being rock stars too, but it never materialized. We we printed like 10 000 of these cds yet and they're sitting in.

Speaker 1: 1:36:27

They're sitting in a warehouse in atlanta right now I want to come in on that because I was a big part of, uh, you know, helping write these songs and getting this out on itunes and expecting the dollars to just flow in from these songs. And there was a decision how many albums do you want to print? And we're like I'm like let's print 10,000 of them. You know, we'll sell them at the shows and at the tournaments and they're going to go like hotcakes, yeah. And eventually we started calling these things Frisbees, because we just toss them off the stage. And then, how many t-shirts do you want to print? Let's print 10,000. And so we have a warehouse that we're paying for still to this day holding a bunch of this junk. So if anyone wants a free album and a t-shirt Brian Brose Band it's yours, but we have a couple of highlights.

Speaker 1: 1:37:21

We have a couple of highlights. We had you on stage singing Ice, ice Baby, maybe 15 years ago, and you killed. That that's somewhere on YouTube. And then we have this one song called Autograph, and we had Novak and Andy Murray rap a verse on it massage table and we're like, can you just read this?

Speaker 1: 1:37:45

and we recorded it and we threw it up on it. We, we had him just read the lyrics or just say, hey, man, can you just read this? I don't even know if he knew we were going to put it up on itunes, but we had novak do it and the bbc played it um a few times on the and he just got roasted. Every talk show would go on um. They played as he walked out and it just followed him. I, I remember Judy Murray came up to us. She's like, what'd you do to my son? But but yeah, I mean we, we, we love it. We have this one gig in Indian Wells. We played the food court. So we played at the food court 12 years in a row and that's our Superbowl Right. And we have these great uh musicians that that join us jim bogus from the county crows, james valentine from maroon fives helped us out and uh, yeah. So we're, we're still going hard in the studio and stuff, but yeah, where where do uh, for for our, for our 11 listeners.

Speaker 1: 1:38:37

Where would they be able to find one of those old frisbees?

Speaker 1: 1:38:40

t-shirts, or I think, or download some of your greatest hits. You cannot find the album or the t-shirt. Maybe we'll just bring a truck, a truck full to our next tournament that we go to, but uh, you can. You can uh see our songs on spotify and we have, I think, 50 monthly listeners on spotify, so hopefully this podcast uh increases that a bit, but autographs the one, because we got Djokovic and Murray to sing this before they became Djokovic and Murray. Now these are two of the greatest players of all time and so this might take off now. All right, I know we have at least 50 listeners, so I expect all of you, if you're listening to this and you've made it this far, you have nothing better to do you can spend another 12 seconds and go, go listen to uh, to the show um, we'll put a link in the show descriptions.

Speaker 2: 1:39:29

Perfect, click down.

Speaker 1: 1:39:30

Perfect, let's double that number uh, I'm not gonna take any more of their time. Uh, bob mike, you know that I've always appreciated you. Uh, you're an inspiration to me. Uh, when I came out, you, you won a slam before I did and, thankfully for you, you kept winning them afterwards. But I think shared experience is the biggest source of bond. Obviously, you all have tons of shared experience, but I've appreciated our shared experience and common goal.

Speaker 1: 1:39:58

I know I can say without a doubt I would not be a Davis Cup champion without the two of you. I hope, in at least a smaller version, you feel the same. Anything you guys ever need you, let me know. You guys are the best. There's only one best doubles team of all time. And you just heard from them. Thanks Bobby, thanks Mike. All right, I love Bob and Mike Bryan Mike. So I kind of knew what was coming. This is why I texted Bob and Mike Bryan Mike. So I've heard. I kind of knew what was coming. This is why I texted Bob and I said I want you on, but I want you on If you're willing to just let her rip Tater Chip. What did you think of those stories, having heard them for the first time? It might be the first time I've heard them sober.

Speaker 2: 1:40:40

I mean it literally was a caricature of what you think two brothers twins playing doubles tennis should be. I mean it literally sounded like it should have been like a will ferrell movie it's so good like it should have been steph's brothers too. It should have been a doubles team it's.

Speaker 1: 1:40:54

I mean they're on, they're unreal. If there's one takeaway that I hope we're succeeding in getting across with our little podcast is that, like, it's the most human sport ever. Like, you can fight, you can be insecure, you can be nervous, you don't have your, you can't pass the ball on a certain day, but like you see, these superheroes of our sport, like Bob and Mike Bryan, and it's like they're. They're like two nine-year-olds bullying each other in the backyard because someone stole someone else's baseball. Like it's. It's like they're, they're like two nine-year-olds bullying each other in the backyard because someone stole someone else's baseball. Like it's. It's just, it's like brilliant kind of connectivity between us all being dumb idiots and also peak performance. Like it's just. It's just. I I'm so thankful for them, uh, coming on, sharing, uh, and I I hope Davis Cup is everything that they want it to be. They've certainly earned the right to be involved and in charge of that team.

Speaker 1: 1:41:52

Something I mentioned in the open and I was about to go off on one, and then you corrected me and tried to keep the guardrails up and keep me on task, which is not always easy is the umpiring in in monte carlo. Was it's like a dumpster fire like an absolute dumpster fire. Start to finish like why do we not have electronic line calling? Has there ever, has there yet, been a player who came off like people didn't even know the umpires were gone and that's the best thing it could be. Like they basically looped in the voices in australia this year and it was like rebel wilson calling the ball out. No one noticed, like that's a true story. Like they looped it and it was fine, like nothing lost.

Speaker 1: 1:42:33

Like progress happens, stuff changes. Why would we, if we have the ability, why would we not want to get every call right? Like well, there's a mark on clay. You can misread a mark. I? I've had millions of practices with pro players who see marks all the time and you disagree on on a mark. Like wouldn't it be nice to at least have the confirmation bias or something to tell you to like kind of get on with it. Uh, medvedev as always, and I, I there's just a difference with Medvedev. It was like oh he, just two days in a row, he's just going off the umpire. Yeah, he was right both days, by the way.

Speaker 2: 1:43:10

Yeah, he was right.

Speaker 1: 1:43:10

Both days and there is a. It's not all the same If you're wrong in throwing a fit like Rublev. I love Rublev too, but he was wrong in Dubai. He went nuts, which I didn't I don't know, it probably was an overextension but he left himself exposed to a judgment of an umpire. But he was wrong. He was wrong about the actual call that he melted down about. Medvedev is kind of like right most of the time, like when he melts down he's kind of right and that should matter a little bit. It should matter Like if you imagine you being at work being right about something and then also getting doc pay or also getting you know being right, but also like you have to suffer the consequences if you're wrong, like you wouldn't go quietly I mean, the best part about all of it is, um, when he said why is that guy even wearing glasses?

Speaker 1: 1:44:03

I don't know. I hope that I wonder. Sometimes. Do they make prescription windshields Because otherwise it's not safe to drive?

Speaker 2: 1:44:11

His blow-ups are actually particularly funny, and if you don't like them, that's fine, you can just turn it off the next time.

Speaker 1: 1:44:16

You won't. No, you won't. Holger Rune had kind of like a tale of two. He went off on an umpire one day and was wrong about the call, and then the next day he literally did like shadow puppets, like if you were to imitate a duck quack with your hand for those only listening on audio, like your thumb goes into your other four fingers in rapid succession. He did that to the crowd. That.

Speaker 2: 1:44:40

Yeah like, keep chatting, keep chatting, like he was taunting Nothing out.

Speaker 1: 1:44:43

That yeah like keep chatting, keep chatting, like he was taunting nothing, and he got a warning. Hubie hercotch got a warning. He not the next person to be mad at hubie hercotch will be the first. He got a warning and the umpire's explanation was oh, I felt like that was spillover from last point. No, no, no, no. There's no build-up to a. It's either a warning or it's not. And he, like it wasn't even a. It was crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:45:07

And then the thing that's gotten me in trouble and taken up all my my entire day to day is is then, like I don't mind people freaking out, like I, I broke all types of stuff. I did all types of terrible behavioral things that I was later embarrassed about, but I also got warnings for pretty much all of them. Right, and I'd walk off and I rarely I can probably think of five times in my entire career of which I got warnings all the time of where I was like I shouldn't have gotten one there. 99% of the time I deserve the warning that came my way, and so I simply said on TC Live the other night like listen, if Rona or Rona, rona, corona, holy 2020. Sorry, if Runa gets a warning for basically making like animal puppets with his hands, someone looking at the crowd repeatedly, clearly saying shut the f*** up.

Speaker 1: 1:46:01

Who did that? It doesn't matter who did it, I'll tell you who did it. But it doesn't matter because my opinion would be the same Like I don't care if you do it, I'm more entertained if you do it. Like I'm more entertained if someone's booing or if the crowd's into it. Like I like it. It's human emotion. It's we're not robots. Some of us act like robots, but you're not on the inside, you're just not. And so I simply said that I made the. This was the other controversial statement I made, uh, besides the, the crazy one that Emma Navarro is a better, uh, tennis player than rapper.

Speaker 2: 1:46:37

I mean, I still can't get over that one.

Speaker 1: 1:46:38

It's crazy. I know I shouldn't have said it, shouldn't have done it, damn it. The other crazy thing I said is that you know, listen, if rona, why do I keep saying rona? I don't know gosh, if runa gets in trouble for making balloon animals with his hands, then it gets a warning. Then if someone looks at the crowd and in two different languages in the same sentence, says shut the up, I feel like that should warrant a warning who did?

Speaker 2: 1:47:01

who did that?

Speaker 1: 1:47:02

the greatest tennis player of all time. Who Stop? Greatest male tennis player of all time Don't. And so I'm literally getting like I don't know what to tell a fan base if I said he should get a warning because he told the crowd loudly, clearly to shut the up. They're like I don't care if he cusses, I'm like that's fine. Told the crowd loudly, clearly to shut the up. They're like I don't care if he cusses, I'm like that's fine, but like that's also the rule, like precedent's been set for 50 years, like because you don't like the rule, he shouldn't have been. Like I don't understand. I don't understand.

Speaker 1: 1:47:36

It's just, it's, it's illogical, it's nuts, it's the fact that that was the thing that that got. That got it going this week. Oh God, it's so annoying. Anyways, novak is unbelievable, but I'm trying to cover it because I'm scared of them. He's still going. I'm scared of I was scared of Lindsay for about 48 hours this week. I love Lindsay. I was a little scared of them. He's still going. Yeah, I'm scared of, uh, I was scared of lindsey for about 48 hours this week. I love lindsey. I was a little scared of her. Uh, I'm kind of always scared. I just don't know if, like if I say he should have gotten a warning for saying shut the up, because runa got one for doing balloon animals, that's not weird to me, is that weird?

Speaker 2: 1:48:25

it's up there with saying that people can't rap. And since you couldn't write, she's a better tennis player than rapper.

Speaker 1: 1:48:32

I wouldn't dare say she couldn't rap, oh my god that would be because the point of making rookies do embarrassing stuff is not so that they'll be embarrassed I mean, now we have to go into this, let's just wrap the show all right, let's wrap the show. Thanks for listening. This has been Served.