Andy Roddick and Jon Wertheim go over the recent clay-court winners: Casper Ruud beats Stefanos Tsitsipas in Barcelona and Elena Rybakina beats Marta Kostiyuk in Stuttgart. They also touch on Rafa committing to Laver Cup and what it’s like to be in young Darwin Blanch’s shoes going into his Rafa match up in Madrid. Lastly, they touch on Garbiñe Muguruza’s retirement announcement ahead of Madrid and reflect on the hall-of-fame worthy career she gave the sport.
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Andy Roddick and Jon Wertheim go over the recent clay-court winners: Casper Ruud beats Stefanos Tsitsipas in Barcelona and Elena Rybakina beats Marta Kostiyuk in Stuttgart. They also touch on Rafa committing to Laver Cup and what it’s like to be in young Darwin Blanch’s shoes going into his Rafa match up in Madrid. Lastly, they touch on Garbiñe Muguruza’s retirement announcement ahead of Madrid and reflect on the hall-of-fame worthy career she gave the sport.
Keep up with us on socials!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/servedpodcast/
X: https://twitter.com/Served_Podcast
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@served_podcast?_t=8jZtCnzdAnX&_r=1
Watch the Episodes on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0k_--YLuTNuDvq1Dw4zHmw
All right, I am Andy Roddick. Welcome to another episode of Served the Podcast. I am not going to go on a solo rant. John Wertheim has carved out a lot of time for us today. And, john, what did you do with your weekend?
Speaker 2:What did I do this weekend?
Speaker 3:Yeah what did you do this weekend?
Speaker 2:This may have been my last weekend in Amsterdam, potentially, and actually a little cooperation on the weather. Friends in town ate a lot of cheese, rode some bikes, you know the usual. Yeah, I don't think. Maybe one more week and then we don't get this hostage backdrop where I have to blink twice. We may actually get a nicer hotel room or be back home, but no, no good weekend. How about you?
Speaker 1:is this? Is this a planned? I thought you were. Are you pulling the plug early? I thought you were there, like I thought you were there, or are you just out of the that weird, that very charismatic room that you're that we can see you in?
Speaker 2:this is, uh, this is, this is my base. So 60 minutes has permission to pull me out to go do assignments. So you know, I'd be go to barcelona, london, and it looks like I'm headed to copenhagen, the land of, uh, the land of holger, ruda and his mom and wozniacki, um, and then probably, you know, man, you get a lot of, uh, a lot of details here. I'm not sure people are interested. Uh, a little sun, college graduation back in the us, and we come back for the french open. I'll give you my whole itinerary, but, like chris russo here, but, um, no, I'm, uh, I'm, this is, this is my base in amsterdam for the spring, and I think I may have another week or two and then, uh, unfortunately I have to head. Oh, this is a great, great city. I'll give you my comedy routine another time. The branding about hookers and hash needs to be overturned. The bike situation here is out of control, but otherwise, this is a city where we should all be living.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite things is when a journalist gets asked a question, like a very innocent question of how was your weekend. They get all squeamish like they can't answer it. But yeah, they can probe. You know very, very serious stuff. He's like red and he's like he can't sit still right now.
Speaker 2:His body language is like it's like.
Speaker 1:I asked him his most personal details, like how was your weekend?
Speaker 2:We asked a question. Your turn. What notes in a way, what'd you?
Speaker 1:do. Very exciting, john. Um, this was this, was this, was it? Uh had a? Uh, 8.00 AM soccer game, uh, with our daughter Stevie, uh scored a goal, fucking dominated uh, two to one was a defensive battle, uh. And then we had, uh, uh, like a car. There's this big saturday, the big carnival thing, where you know, brooke volunteers and she spray painted heads of kids and that sounds worse than it is. It's. They can wash out uh. And then there was a she did the hacky sack throw and I'm just there's a thousand, two thousand kids just going ham running around this carnival, eating sugar straight out of packets that you pay for, uh, fundraiser situation, and I'm just trying to.
Speaker 1:My job was to corral our kids and not lose them, and brooke was, was working, uh. The stations drove up to a little mountain, uh, for a night to see some friends came back. It was full, no minute was my own, but it was great. It's like Brooke put it very smartly, as she's prone to do. A couple of months ago we were talking about the ages. Our kids are eight and six older boy, younger girl and she goes. I think we're currently living the good old days. We don't have to wait for them to be the good old days, like I think we're currently where it's like they're annoying in a car ride, but yet they still love us and want to like, cuddle with us and do the whole thing, and so, uh, actually a pretty good weekend. We didn't have time to go to home depot, but, but besides that it was a pretty nice little Saturday.
Speaker 2:Man, savor these days. You know what. They don't always have to be Disney World. What kind of sports parent are you? Do you sit there and watch?
Speaker 1:or do you get into it? No, no, no, I don't get into it. I don't, I don't. I've seen so many psychotic tennis parents from growing up. I think every parent is nuts. Not every parent is nuts, not every parent's nuts. There are a lot of parents who are nuts. I saw in we're in Texas. Then we moved to Florida. When I moved to Florida I saw parents of kids get like restraining orders. They weren't allowed to go near tournaments because it would abuse their children after matches if they lost. I saw said parent because they would abuse their children after matches if they lost. I saw said parent I promise you this is 100% true in a tree with binoculars, like 200 yards away, watching a match. I saw another parent knock out two parents get in a fight and one just knocked one out cold. The guy who knocked the other guy out was like 5'3" and he out like this six foot two guy who's awesome even then never leave your chin exposed he led with his chin.
Speaker 1:He led with his chin. So I am the most apathetic. Try your hardest, I uh. I was in charge of uh substitutions this week, so on the sideline I had the card.
Speaker 2:So I, this is soccer.
Speaker 3:I I actually I actually have good info on this from you're known for your uh soccer expertise yeah, I, I've good info from the head coach who told me when I saw him on sunday he said that uh, andy was in charge of the sidelines and he looked over and all the kids were just playing in the, in the dirt, in the mud I did tell them not to like.
Speaker 1:But I don't know, what do you do like? Like, listen here, here's, here's this is also a true story. Uh, I coached the three-year-old soccer team. I don't know anything about soccer, right Beyond, like try hard run, you know, and I I don't know. It was too intimidating, I couldn't figure it out. Like it was just like they were running crazy, they were doing spinning around in circles, they're playing, like they're doing anything, uh, but soccer. But um, yeah, I was in charge of substitutions.
Speaker 1:Uh, it had rained the night before it was. It looked like like a mud run on our sideline. It was. It was a problem. Uh, the girl, the w, we got the w. Yeah, we we meaning that I, I had the. I had the conversation with the coaches, who are like the nicest guys ever. I get along with them well, but after the first year I coached it was the nicest they possibly could have put it. They come in and go. You know we're interested in coaching next year. You know we'd like to take over. If it's something you know, it just basically is like I got fired from the inside and they want to be as cordial as possible.
Speaker 2:Hold your grab. You want some unsolicited advice? I sound like an old man here. Don't, don't give up that position, right? You want your dream about coaching. Literally you're oh, I'm going to coach my son. You go, and then all the boys are like they don't, they all know better than you. You say maybe you shouldn't shoot from half course Steph Curry does it. Or use your left leg. When you said Derek Jeter doesn't use his left leg. The girls are great. The girls are so cultured. They make huge progress. They start out with like who gets the candy bracelet? And halfway through the season they're like you can't tag up from third If the runner isn't. That I mean. The growth is like this. It's awesome, it's already gone.
Speaker 1:I was a dumpster fire. They're now a successful little unit. I am there as a support piece. I go and run when they warm up and they kick the balls in the next field. My job is to run. I'm like a water boy. They're all set up. I try to tell them not to play in the mud, but listen, it's free will. What are you going to do? Like? You know it, just I I don't know, but they got the. They got the victory. That's where my life is right now. I do podcasts with you and then I'm basically the ball water boy for a six-year-old girls soccer team. Uh, that's what. Uh, that's what it is. That's what it is, uh. But, um, I won't make you scream by like asking you like what you had for dinner last night or anything too personal.
Speaker 2:You see the Steve Martin documentary. You seen that on Apple Plus yes, it's fantastic, he's awesome, but he's so uncomfortable talking about himself they really had to thread a needle. He's a fascinating guy, he's had this wild career, but he clearly doesn't want to talk about himself. A little hard to make a two-part documentary with a subject. Want to talk about himself. A little hard to make a two two-part documentary with a subject is so uh, it's, it's so unwilling to, uh, to sort of open doors but they pulled it off anyway.
Speaker 1:Um tennis, I won't get too personal. What do you think makes you a great journalist, john?
Speaker 2:you uh you ask questions and you don't have to answer them. That's the beauty of the job uh, let's get into it.
Speaker 1:Obviously not a master masters 1000 week uh. Madrid starting this week, qualifying. Going on now, I will be on tc live, starting uh, wednesday evening uh, throughout the entirety of the tournament. I'll be on for rome uh as well. So you will be uh sick and tired of me if you are a tc live uh watcher.
Speaker 1:Um, two guys that I feel like like out the Novaks, the Alcarazes, these guys who you know are going to put points on the boards, varev, maybe to a lesser extent, two guys that really need the clay court season. This is their opportunity to run up the scoreboard. This is their red zone. They're inside the 20-yard line, the first two. This could dictate them being five in the world, four in the world, or 15 in the world at a given moment.
Speaker 1:Kasper Ruud, stefano Sitsipas right, talk about taking advantage of a surface change. Ruud actually played pretty well in the beginning of the season Hard, not his favorite, but he's certainly a capable hardcore player. Finals of US Open, open finals in miami finals, a world tour finals, um sits bosses finals. I mean, they're capable, but their best, most effective, favorite surface consistently is going to be clay. Uh, these guys playing great stuff. Finally, in marnie carlo sits boss, wins one and four, run it back in Barcelona and Kasper Ruud uh, takes the title, did not lose a set, uh, in Barcelona. This is big for him because he's kind of sometimes had like a slow run into the clay court season where it's like, oh no, he needs to pick up some points and then all of a sudden he makes a French Open final and and that's that. Um, but these guys impressive, especially Sitsipas, like he was struggling right, anyone who was hitting big could attack the middle of the court. He was trying to find something for this entire season and then to get some space and then create a win in Monte Carlo, back it up with a final.
Speaker 1:And now people are saying like this is a heavy schedule, they're playing too much, there's some space in these 10 day events Like this is. I remember winning uh an oh three and a get the next year. Uh, I almost made the finals back to back again, but playing 12 matches in 13 days to win uh Montreal, cincinnati the next year, I came one short. So I played uh 11 matches in 13 days. That is impossible, right, that is that is. You feel like a bag of shit after after those two weeks and thankfully you have a week before.
Speaker 1:But these guys have done their job and now they have two or three days off before Madrid. They're most likely not going to get scheduled before Thursday. They might even get a Friday start Saturday, I don't know they can it back, but they've earned that rest and now they can kind of reset and they're not going to be overloaded. But they do have the matches. Props to them. First title that Casper Rude wins above the 250 level. Everyone chirping after Monte Carlo. And it's not as if the guy hasn't played great in big tournaments. He's made, made three grand slam finals like there's not like a block where he can't play a big match well, let me ask you a question and the short answer, the one word answer, is sports.
Speaker 2:But I'm not sure. There are a lot of pursuits out there sports, not sports where you could have one result on one sunday and then run it back and have the exact opposite result. What's your? You know the surface didn't change, the conditions weren't particularly different. What's your explanation for why Tsitsipas can be rude on one Sunday, seven days later, complete opposite result. Explain that to the casual fan, because that's, that's not something you see at, you know. And then we don't even have to keep this in tennis, right? I mean, you don't have, uh, you don't have a ufc fight. They run it back a week later. It's a different result. What? How do you explain that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean it that even if the the conditions change a little, if it's a little bit heavier in barcelona than it is in monte carlo, um, the match going in, rude uh played some longer matches going in to the final there. But I actually kind of disagree, because you'll have NBA series that go seven games where they're flip-flopping games. You know every week what I think is like. Okay, rude goes. He went something like in you Twitter fingers gonna ruin me on this but he went something like 0 for 8 or 0 for 9 on break points in the Monte Carlo final. So then it looks like a lopsided scoreline. He wins two or three of those. We're even Steven right, and so I haven't looked at the numbers for break points 1 from the Barcelona match, but I'm assuming it's got to be like I don't know 3 for 7. That's everything right. You can literally, if I told you, to look at one stat for a match that would tell the story break points won and break points converted, right. So Rude all of a sudden misses a couple of shots by last year. Last week in Monte Carlo he had three forehands that I remember. From the backhand corner, which is what he wants to get around, he creates more RPMs on his forehand than Rafa. If you can believe that it's not the shot, he doesn't get the space. He's not lefty not saying it's a better shot than Rafa, but just as far as spin rate, the last three or four years he's been the best on tour gets into that backhand corner ready to fire where he takes control of it and rolled over three in the net on break points, like rolled you know, just didn't even make Sitsapas play, you know. Barcelona it's different. So, even though it seems like a route one week and then a reverse route the next week, it's those break point conversions. He created the opportunities in Mali-Carlo. He converted the opportunities in Barcelona.
Speaker 1:Maybe your service percentage goes up 6% or 7%, that's worth a break. That's worth a break, at least one break. If you're up 8%, 10%, that's worth two breaks. It's all these little numbers that don't seem like much. And if we're playing a match between professionals but two top 10 players 7, 8 in the world the margins are 2% or 3%. All of those little mini battles inside of a match create the scoreline right. So, even though it seems lopsided and like a huge flip, I would, I would probably say it's a couple things here and there where rude played a little bit better this week. He went through the draw a lot easier this week, start to finish, didn't lose a set. Sitsipas struggled a little bit, you know, won one match I think it was 8-6 in the third set, breaker along the way, but kind of got through it.
Speaker 1:I don't know Like you could have two guys box and obviously they got to put their faces back together. But you know one could be four-round knockout, one could go the distance. It just, it just matters uh, time and place and you know if you miss your shot to throw that you know uppercut and then you got to wait four rounds for that same opportunity. You know it's, it's, it's the tiniest things at the highest level of execution that dictate a scoreline or dictate a result. Um, at this point they, they can all play, especially towards the latter rounds of a tournament. You don't get to a final often and have someone lay a turd right like they're. They're playing well, they've won five matches already. Um, you know they always say the best time to play. One of the top players is that if they've been off for a while in the first couple rounds, like they haven't had that match cadence yet. So I actually don't think it's as much uh of an outlier maybe.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's an outlier. I think it happens a lot and I think it's actually a real virtue of tennis that you say, boy, I don't, you know, you can throw out what happened seven days ago. It's a completely different match. That's a good point about the breaks. I mean, I also don't know.
Speaker 2:You know, let's not forget rude also beat novak in what might well be one of yes, one of the top whatever five wins of his career, um, but I do think you see this in tennis more than in other sports, where a result in week a doesn't mean a whole lot in week b, and I think it's something, um, you know there's going to be. A theme of our podcast is expectations are going to have to be adjusted after the the roger rafa Novak Serena days. But I think it actually speaks really well of tennis that two guys can play two Sundays in a row. It could be a completely different match.
Speaker 1:Your take on the mental ability it takes, for Rude Hadn't won a I think it was 0-5 or 0-6 against Novak going in and hadn't won a set, so wins their first set in Monte Carlo. It's the first time he's ever won a set against Novak. Lose the second you're going. Oh gosh, can I just hold on? Is this gonna like? I just maybe I'll never win it again. You know, it's a fine line between between saying like forever and he mentioned this. He said Casper said I can tell my grandkids I beat Novak Djokovic one time on a day and no one can ever take that away from me. That's a lot of stuff to be thinking about when you're on the court. When you were saying that, like the mental toll it takes, and I think it's absolutely accurate, I think mental effort is a choice, but what you have mentally and how exhausted you are isn't a choice. Right effort's a choice. Those often get confused.
Speaker 1:I went back to my last year on tour, as you were saying in my head, um, I spent a decade pretty much lose, only losing to Roger, and then the last year for like four months he's like kind of like one of the only guys I could beat um in miami it was like round of 32. I was playing like a donkey all year, like a absolute donkey and that might be offensive to donkeys and we, we match up. There's no I've gone into. I'd go into wimbledon final like I. I have a puncher's chance. I can you know I have. I, I would believe, like I believe that, not that I was better, but that I could win. Right, there's a, there's a difference between the two. I was, I knew I over the at scale. I was not never better than Roger Federer. Uh, on a given day, can I throw a right hand uppercut, uh, and, and beat Roger Federer, yeah, so this last year, 2012, I have no business winning this match.
Speaker 1:Win a first set and a breaker Lose a second set, 6-1. Like, total points won, he had to be up like 20. It was such an outlier that we were tied, breaking the third set and I am just like choking my way to the finish line for the rest of this set, going too deep here. But my agent had passed, like five or six months earlier, like I had this thing where I was like having open conversations with him while I was on the court. Right, it was like just like let's just get through, let's just get through. And he was in his hometown, his wife was there the whole thing.
Speaker 1:It was very emotional for me end up winning that match somehow against federer I'm 30 in the world and he's like two, like it makes no sense. And and it was like this joy, I was in the round of 16. There was no. It wasn't as if I won a tournament, it wasn't as if I I'd been in the round of 16 Miami 12 times at that point and I'm like, okay, let's turn the year around.
Speaker 1:I go up the next day against Juan Monaco Good player, solid player, also not Roger Federer Lose 5-0. Also not Roger Federer, lose 5-0. Literally couldn't get myself to fight. I'd use so much mental reserve in that match against Roger. Uh, that it was just. I came out the next day I was like I, I'm trying so hard and I just can't create those feelings, uh, the same physically, mentally, like it just takes so much out of you. So I think that's a great point, with rude Novak getting routed by Sitsapas in the final, maybe not having that mental reserve to convert those break points. A week later he does something I also want to talk about.
Speaker 1:I don't want to like read too much into one result in a waterfall of an entire season. Anyone beating Iga Sviatek on clay is a big deal, because she just doesn't lose on clay that often like she's. The her on that surface is the most dominant thing in women's tennis as far as player surface matchup the whole thing. I win a bunch of french opens. I've won three by now. Um, ego, obviously me. I didn't make the second week. Rabakina now has a 4-2 record against Fiatic. Beats her on clay in Stuttgart. Is this a real conversation piece? Is this matchup a real problem for Iga, regardless of surface? She was playing her well at Rome last year too. Like this is a weird kind of outlier in this like season of Iga dominance. Am I making too much of this?
Speaker 2:I'm glad you use the highly technical word weird, because that's what it is, and I feel like it kind of is an encapsulation of her career. This is a generational player, right? I mean, let's just stop now and she could retire tomorrow. She's in the hall of fame. This is probably the most the coppers. Yeah, yeah, he gets. Yeah, yeah. But just when it looks like she's absolutely ready to like, grab the sport by the collar, there's some mystifying losses. I mean remember she went to australia, this was going to be her year, and then she lost to a player who was outside the top 50. And she gets on these rolling streaks, but then we see some really strange losses. I mean this is a loss to Robacca, there's nothing to cry about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, robacca, it was her third win of the year already. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:But I don't know what to. So on the surface you say yeah, that's a bit of a strange result and that's against sort of one of your rivals. On the surface, you're supposed to own at an event, you're supposed to own, and a big deal was made about who was going to get the car. And, if you remember, iga says I'll make more garage space and Robaculo says I don't even have a driver's license. So we know that the automobile awaiting the winner wasn't necessarily the uh, the prime motivation. No, I don't know. I mean, you you're sort of ready to roll your eyes about ika and say she's not matched up, and then she goes and like rolls a tournament, and then you're ready to say this player could win three majors a year. Um, how is it that so often she's not making the latter rounds of majors? And it's a very strange sort of, in a weird way, I haven't seen this in a long time for a player of her caliber. Actually might be a segue to Mugu if we talk about it, but it's a player of her caliber. There are a lot of strange sort of rhythmic losses where you never would think she was vulnerable and she is, and then all of a sudden you think she's vulnerable and she runs a table and goes two months without losing a match. So I don't know how much we're gonna. You know we're all gonna laugh about this the uh, the second saturday in june when she wins another french open and remember when all the the haters were worried about uh results in a saturday tournament, germany.
Speaker 2:But um, it's a strange result and I think rabakina. Rabakina is kind of sneaky, tough. Right, she doesn't you a lot. There's not a ton of body language, she's not a particularly, she's not an incendiary quote, there's not a great backstory we all know of, but she just kind of is sneaky, effective and sneaky, match tough and she seems to be in full health for the first time in a long time. Circle that result. It might be a big nothing, but that also shows me a little bit of vulnerability. And for Robachna to come back and win the final, I think is significant too. We were talking about Kasper Rudd and you're sort of an emotional, you know some emotional gauge after a big win. I give Robachna a lot of credit for coming back 24 hours later and winning the trophy. It's a strange result and circle it. It might be meaningless in six weeks and it might also be something really significant.
Speaker 1:Hear me out here. Yeah, go, we do have to reset on the heels. You mentioned it earlier. The big three, serena, the best player in the world. We're not entitled to that person dominating every week. Like we're talking about Iga Sviatik not being matched. She's won a couple of 1,000s this year, like already, and she smothers people when she's playing. Well, I think it's. There are just. There are certain types of matchups for her that are more difficult.
Speaker 1:I think of Rafa, like 08 through 11, where Del Potro in 09 in the US Open semifinals because he can throw haymakers and go through Rafa he beat him 2-2-2 in the semis. Right, he would take some losses sometimes when people could create certain pace mechanisms, not when he's playing great, not when he's at peak form. He can beat Federer in the finals of Wimbledon, like there's just, but when it's not entirely comfortable, there was a way to play Rafa like. I felt more comfortable in that matchup, not because I was going to win, but because what I had to do to have a chance to win was so clear, right, I had. I could not extend points. It was not something that was was ever going to work, it was just going to be a slower, more painful death. I had to go with blunt force trauma. I had to serve and volley more often than I wanted to or that I was comfortable with. I had to do it sometimes on the second serve, if I had two feet under a forehand. I'm not trying to find a spot, you know, in in someone's arsenal up down cross line. I am literally just unloading blindly and with a shitload of pace, right Like that's what I had to do against Rafa, and it rarely worked.
Speaker 1:And on clay it was like there's no chance. But on a fast court that's like you could affect him negatively and it wasn't, as if you know. And conversely, when I played Roger, it was like there are all these like little, he hits that short chip. It's like can I, you get a read on it? Can I chip and come in on that one? Or not Like is there, can I, can I come over it? Do I need to reset? There were decisions to be made but they weren't super clear. Right On a second serve. Return against Rafa. I'm going to try to run around, get some space and I'm just going to torch it, but I have time. Right, his second serve isn't the biggest in the world, whereas with Roger, he can move it around the box.
Speaker 1:It was just a tougher matchup for me because it wasn't as clear what I had to do. And I tried, I lost every way. I tried all of it and it's simply matchups. Right, because Igas Fiatak loses to Rabakina and it is seemingly a weird matchup. Rabakina's serve can go through the court, she can create pace. One of her best shots is forehand cross court to Igas, forehand, which happens to be the shot that she doesn't like defending on as much, right. So all of these little things, I just think they lead to a a weird outlier matchup. That seems to have now been proven with their match last year in Rome and then with this one now, that it might work on Iga's favorite surface.
Speaker 1:Now we got to get outdoors. Right that this is not Roland Garros on powdery, slippery clay, where movement is more exposed. This is in. When you're indoors, it's a. It's a lower bounce. It always is. The ball still sounds big. You know, for someone who is a ball striker, which Rabakina is a ball striker, this is a good set of circumstances. Um, so I just think we need to kind of watch that matchup because it might be one of the only ones that Iga is super bothered by all the time, similar with. You know if Sabalenka is firing in all cylinders, it's streaky, it's through the court. It's just interesting. But I think this makes and you're not cheering for people, I just think this makes the rest of the clay court season on the women's side more interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I mean, and I think I think Rabakina in a weird way poses a bigger threat to Iga. Some of it is X's and O's and some of it is just temperamental. I mean also, who beat Serena Williams in her last match of Roland Garros? I check me on this, I'm pretty sure it was Rabakina. I mean, she can play on because she's a Wimbledon champion. She can play on this. You know what I think.
Speaker 2:I mean selfishly, from where we sit. Temes is a lot better when we have wavering, you know, when we have these sinuous results and when we have rivalries. I just keep an eye on that result because, you're right, it's a different surface. It's indoors, it's a weird surface. It's not necessarily so predictive of French clay, but you know this was a bit of a strange result given context. Remember, vakina has I don't know if it's, you probably shouldn't speculate she's had some post-COVID problems. I mean it's nice to see her healthy and get through a tournament no-transcript, which isn't always the case. Let me, as long as we're kind of sort of in the vicinity, let me ask you a. Can I ask you a Rafa adjacent question. Did you see that? Did you see she's playing Darwin Blanche, darwin's revenge, as the De La Soul lovers in the crowd will notice, that was a 16-year-old lefty.
Speaker 1:This is a very talented kid.
Speaker 2:We're more of a tribe called quest guys over here on this side of the pond right now, but I appreciate the reference.
Speaker 2:Anyways, we can do tribe called quest. We can save that for another show. Rafa plays Darwin Blanche. Right, 16-year-old kid. You talk about Casper Rude saying I beat Novak. I can tell my grandkids were rude saying, uh, I beat novak. I can tell my grandkids. Imagine your 16 year old darwin blanche probably not thinking in terms of being a grandparent, but uh, playing rapha in spain. That's um, that's, that's one for the member. Did you have a match like that where you came out and just you were the kid? There was a legend across the net and you had to figure out how not to humiliate yourself and oh yeah, maybe even try to uh to win as well. What is that like? What was your darwin blanche?
Speaker 1:yep, I have one. That is so clear cut to me, um, first. So I got to number one in the world juniors, got a wild card into delray beach. Lost, uh, my first pro match. Second pro tournament I played, I think even before I'd ever played. A challenger was in Miami. Uh, I lived up the road. I won my first round against a guy ranked 40 in the world, fernando Vicente. Uh, which you know. At that time he he wasn't, he was looking forward to the clay court season. Uh, at that point in in Miami. Uh, second round Um, I'm still in high school, right, so I haven't. I have not graduated high school yet. I'm 17 years old. Still have six months before I turn 18.
Speaker 1:My second round draw is a guy named Andre Agassi, who is my idol. Like I wore so many shitty pairs of neon shorts and jeans. Who wears jeans on a court in Austin, texas, in the summer? I do, because that's how much I liked him. Jeans and pink, hot pink. I was into it. He comes and I'm like I don't even know. I woke up that morning and I couldn't comprehend the situation. It's a tournament he's won a handful of times already miami, the crowd's 15 000 people, night session. I'm like I have some like high school friends coming to watch. Like I'm like we get free tickets. This is wait. I well, you're gonna give me tickets and I can give me whoever I want. This is badass. I'm gonna look so cool.
Speaker 2:Um, you're wearing jorts and you're giving out free tickets, man I should have.
Speaker 1:I should have worn jorts in tribute for that, for that match. But he, like, he comes, like we're sharing a locker room, you know, and so during the day, locker rooms are insane. It's like a train station because everyone's practicing. You don't see people practicing at eight at night, like it just generally doesn't have. Maybe someone sneaks in ahead you, you know to get used to lights or whatever, but that means you're really good and you're assuming that you're going to play at night. So we're about to tee off. It's seven o'clock. I think Andre walks over to me at, I don't know, 6.15 or 6.30. And because I'm like, walking around trying to stay out of his way, I don't know if he knows who I am, I don't know if he, like, at that point we didn't have an established relationship. The next month I was a hitting partner for him and so, like, we became like acquaintances. He walks up, he goes, he goes, he goes. Hi, andy, I was like, and he goes, I'm Andre.
Speaker 1:We'll have we'll have fun tonight. I'm like, okay, all right, andre Agassi and I literally like I couldn't swallow my like I couldn't, I couldn't breathe, and anyways, we go out there and we play, and at that, like he was number one in the world, I think I mean there's, and he would, he just punished people, like there was, I was like a gangly giraffe, um, you know. So I think I held. I was like please, just hold a couple of times, just hold, serve, Like let's just get through some games, like I, I've had these thoughts. I'm like gosh, my gosh, this guy's number one in the world. He's the I don't like, don't lose, oh no, don't not not quite the winning mentality that you need.
Speaker 1:I think it was two and three. I think it was two and three, which was fine, but yes, so I understand what Darwin Blanche is is going through. I don't know if Rafa was his idol. It's probably one of three guys. That was, you know, is, is or was his his idol. Does branch train in Spain? He trained Blanche. Change it? Blanche trains with Ferrero.
Speaker 3:So you think the odds are that he's hit with him before?
Speaker 1:Not necessarily he might have, I don't know. But I think that's like saying to someone who lived in America do you think they've hit with each other? He's definitely hit. I think one of the things that will help him is he's definitely trained with Alcaraz. A ton, wait, I'll give you one.
Speaker 2:uh, he's he's the lefty sparring partner. So, um, yeah, he's, he's hit with uh I I, I don't want to swear to this. I think I saw him hitting with alcarez when I was there at the academy uh last year, but he's sort of the lefty stand-in. So I don't know if he's, I don't know how well he knows rafa, but he certainly, certainly simulated Rafa. It's an interesting angle to the story and he plays under the American flag, but this is an international family. There's a much older brother, ulysses, who was a really good junior, who allegedly spoke Mandarin because they lived in Hong Kong and I think he was born in Puerto Rico. This family's been around the world, but it's a really interesting kind of fact pattern. Give Darwin one piece of advice. What do you tell him, darwin, before he plays Rafa, breathe.
Speaker 1:Focus on your breathing Exhale. When you hit the ball, your feet have to move. Your feet are the first thing to go. When you're nervous, when something's wrong and this isn't even just for Darwin Blanche playing against Rafa Nadal. This is any of you hackers listening to this podcast? When you're nervous for Tuesday night dingles, move your feet. You cannot hit a good shot if it's away from you, if your feet are stuck in the mud. Jeff, our friend jeff, who I play dingles with all the time, I get so pissed I'm like move your feet, like sure that doesn't mess with him even more.
Speaker 3:And I'm telling you I get.
Speaker 1:So I used to get so pissed when I would train with younger players and the cool guy warm-up drives me fucking nuts. There is no like. Oh, it's just warm-up. I'm like there's no reason why your feet can't be moving during a warm-up.
Speaker 1:This cool guy when I see like a 14 or 15-year-old kid, like hitting shots and looking cool and dragging their feet and like, not actually like, like when you cut Jimmy Connors roasted me one time, like we start warming up and I'm kind of like I was a pretty, like I came out ready to practice like most times. He's like the 10 minutes like your footwork is average, tour average at best. Why would you not focus on it for the first 10 minutes when the ball's coming slow like, why would you not get those reps in? When you're not rushed right like, and so from then on, right away, like you're. He taught me this cadence and this rhythm and he probably had some of the best footwork of all time. But like the first 10 minutes you're hitting is like a free run at proper footwork and coaches focus on swings and paths and look how it looks and all that shit doesn't matter if you're not set and you can't get to the ball Bottom up. That's how you coach. You start at the bottom with a young kid and you work your way up and if the bottom works, you can make a living.
Speaker 1:I have seen some bad players by tour. Standard ball strikers don't serve big, can't go through you great footwork and they can. There've been a top hundred players in the world. Bottom up, darwin, blanche, move your feet. It is a little bit different and there is cause for optimism If you're Blanche and I'm his coach in this situation which, by the way, I want to get to, the fact that he's our best prospect and doesn't live in America.
Speaker 3:I wasn't going to bring that up. I'm going to fucking bring it up.
Speaker 1:You bet your ass I'm going to bring it up.
Speaker 2:Keep that under wraps your ass.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna bring it up. Keep that under wraps. Yeah, uh, rafa isn't number one in the world. He's not peak. Andre, at this point you're still on clay. You're still in madrid. The ball jumps everywhere. If he gets a hot day, he is going to get a lesson in a ball, jumping uh off of a court.
Speaker 1:But if I'm his coach, I'm saying listen, all the respect in the world, you can give credit to this guy. And also, he's not a I would. I don't know that this is true on clay. Time will tell. He's not a top 10 player in the world at this moment, like he's. He's a guy who is ranked 800 in the world and I would be feeding him this narrative, even if I didn't believe it myself. If you get off to a hot start, he's, he's been compromised, uh, he's not serving full out yet. I would be saying all of these things for confidence. Now we still have to respect it and we still have to game plan. We still have to do all these things. But I would try. I would be trying to find sources, uh, of optimism for this matchup. Um, but this is cool. The kid can say I mean, he's lefty, he's six foot four, he looks like a, like a mini shelton, like he's. He's got a cool vibe, big serve lefty. Uh, played in Miami and you can tell the movement isn't going to be there for a little while, right when, when his feet start making sense because he's still growing like you can look at him and he's obviously not. He's not Rafa when Rafa was 17, who looked like he could bench press dump trucks, like he's not that guy yet. But this is cool. Like this is the type of thing like how fortunate is he if Rafa has three tournaments left or four now I mean, john's going to talk to us about some stuff, but if he doesn't have that many tournaments left to be able to say I played Rafa, so cool, hope he enjoys it.
Speaker 1:Also, this kid is in a situation in Spain with Juan Carlos Ferrero of Slam number one fame and coach of Carlos Alcaraz, and he plays for America. He has our flag. I don't know the financial situations. I promise you 10 or 15 years ago they would have tried to reel his ass back into the America and so that they leave him fuck alone over there. Just leave him there and let him develop. Let him do it. Do not leave him and send him all of the money, send him all the play, all the player development money that you're taking away. Just give it to him and say please keep practicing with Carlos Alcaraz, please keep letting Juan Carlos Ferrero guide you.
Speaker 1:Don't come back, just stay there and be like a top three player. That would be fucking awesome. Don't have an ego about it. Leave him there. Enjoy the match against Rafa. Tangent done him. Don't have an ego about it. Leave him there, enjoy the match against rafa. Uh, tangent done. Um. Can we talk before, because I don't want to transit. We're going to talk about garbina muguritha, who I have a couple of thoughts. Um, we're going to get to that. And, and john, I think, is I'm suspecting he's going to spiral that because I've seen his social media the last couple of days and the conversation about Hall of Fame and how that affects her, and, yada, yada yada, rafa has entered another event, post-french Open. John, is that correct? I think?
Speaker 2:we're allowed to. You know, I was told.
Speaker 1:I could not break this news. I read it online an hour ago, so we have to be allowed.
Speaker 2:It's official. So whatever we play by the rules here. I was told it was embargoed and I wasn't allowed to say anything. I didn't. Somehow it ended up on the socials. That's okay. Um, more spanish tennis. I tell you, this is uh, when we ought to. Uh. I hope we have some sort of licensing deal in spain. But yeah, you want to stick with rafa and he uh.
Speaker 2:I guess it's out there now, but apparently over the weekend he, he agreed to play Leverkopf in Berlin. Interesting move here. Everyone has been speculating that whether he has to die. I don't know if you saw some of his quotes about playing Roland Garros. Those were rather dramatic. I think we all worked on the assumption that this would be Roland Garros would be it. But apparently Rafa has committed to play Leverkopf. I don't know how big a deal that is. I mean, you can commit to a lot of things. It doesn't mean you're necessarily in a position to fulfill it. It did harken back to Roger Federer's retirement too, so there's a nice little bit of symmetry, maybe. You know. Let's hope Rafa goes and plays and wins. Decisive message playing top tier tennis.
Speaker 2:This may also be sort of a glorified ceremony, who knows, but I do think it is significant. It kind of, in a way, it takes some pressure off of him, doesn't it? I mean, we were talking a couple of weeks ago. Imagine going out for that last French Open knowing it could be your last match. Everybody's keeping their tickets dubbed your wife's son's there. Maybe it gives him a little bit of a mental cushion to say, listen, I've already committed to this event in September, so don't trot out my retirement ceremony yet. A little bit of a strange, you know. I put that. If weird is one of our sub-themes today, I would put this announcement it's a little weird, but I don't know. I mean, you tell me, are you now that it's out there and there's no apparent embargo anymore? Rafa to Berlin. Are you surprised to see that press release? Yeah, with parent embargo anymore.
Speaker 1:uh, rafa to berlin. Are you surprised to see that press release? Yeah, very surprised. Yeah, I was surprised when I first saw it and you had uh, underneath the cloak of secrecy. We had had our uh producer mike served kind of when we talk about shows and you were late entry, basically saying we could talk about it because this won't air until a day later. So technically that would be okay under your sports journalist ethics lesson that you've put on with this restraint on the Rafa news. It was weird. At first I was very surprised until I kind of started marinating on it a little bit this morning.
Speaker 1:So one Labor Cup is one of the best things I've ever seen in tennis because they can create their own matchups. They understand it's an event for the fans. They can put roger fetter and a doubles match on one leg and control that and it's not, you know, a tournament where you're at the mercy of someone upsetting whatever your best rating is. It's the first event I've ever seen in tennis that starts with what would be the absolute best for fan experience and how it presents on TV and then works towards creating this pride system. Obviously they have the budgets to bring in the players system. Obviously they have the budgets to bring in the players and they've created a unique, differentiated event, whereas when I first heard about it I'm like here's another one of these stupid dumb things that's going to take up and I was wrong, completely, 100% wrong. The video they get of people talking strategy and actually the other players getting in and the rafas and the rogers and the borgs and the max and like I love it in in the in-house view and the players actually, you know, getting into it. I had an argument with john isner about it like eight years ago and because I was a davis cup homer and he's like this is going to be bigger and I'm like you're out of your fucking mind. I'll tell you when I'm right about something and I have no pride at all about when I'm wrong about something, I was 1,000% wrong. Now you can commit to Laver Cup and you can play doubles. That's not the same as entering the US Open and playing three out of five sets seven times over 14 days.
Speaker 1:Roger had an unbelievable send-off. It wasn't what he wanted, right? He wanted to play Wimbledon again. He wanted to play the biggest tournaments again. He wanted to go around the world and say goodbye. I think he still wants to do that at some point. But the ability to curate a moment, because you control the entire lever of scheduling videos. Players that come and watch videos. Players that come and watch. Rafa, I don't think, was going to play Lever Cup the year that Rafa retired and then all of a sudden he's like I'm not going to miss this thing, you're out of your mind, I'm going to go pay my respects.
Speaker 1:Let me wait.
Speaker 2:I like your phrase. Tell me where I'm wrong here. Sure, I think Rafa meant a lot to him that Rafa attended. Remember Rafa pregnant at the time? Yes, so you mentioned roger playing one last match. She's, you know, physically compromised to the extreme. He plays doubles. Who does he play doubles with rafa? It's this great poetic ending. He's on the same side as his longtime rival. Is it crazy talk? You don't remind my dredge when I saw that press release. Is it crazy talk to think that we have some symmetry and rafa's last match on a tennis court is alongside? Who do they trot out north of age 40, not having played a sanctioned match in two years? Who do they trot out to play with rafa? Do you think we might get a roger rafa doubles remixed for, uh, for rafa's last match?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Know, we're guessing, so I have zero. I say some things in this show that normally they're based in some sort of conversation experience, knowing the characters we're talking about, knowing their instincts, knowing what makes them tick. This is pure bullshit, fandom, speculation that we're having right now. Uh, I wouldn't bet on it. Also, it wouldn't be the most shocking thing that I've ever seen in the history of the world, right? So I don't think it'll happen, but you don't know, um, this makes it. I think it makes it more likely. You know we see a no, is or is it nov? You know, or is it?
Speaker 1:They've played more times than Rafa and Roger have. Is it a official passing of the torch to Alcaraz? Is he the partner he's already signed up for? But I guess you're making the point kind of that this is a great event for him to sign up for. If he can't play it, he can't play it.
Speaker 1:Lever Cup wins by him saying he's going to play it and it's kind of create. If he does it and this is the last place he plays and he plays doubles they're kind of creating this place where we can basically curate your goodbye, like we'll let you know we'll make the entire weekend and honor our champions and do the whole thing, and that's kind of a cool identity too, like that's. That's really cool. Um, they have the ability to pull the levers to make it an unbelievable, unique experience for Rafa. He doesn't have to be in shape to play either two sets of singles I mean, that's what he did in Vegas. He played two sets of singles in a breaker. That's what they do there, right or play doubles, which is, like you know, rafa will run more in the locker room before he plays that match than he will on the court, right, like so I thought it was crazy town until I actually started thinking through it.
Speaker 1:Right Like, he is going to leave it out. There at Roland Garros, they're probably going to, you know, huddle up. Hopefully it doesn't end in some massive blowout injury. It sounds like he is just going to let it rip Tater Chip, which is great. I mean what he said and what you mentioned like I'm going to die for that, like it sounds dramatic, but that's kind of the mentality that you would have, right, if you were him. He's just being honest about it.
Speaker 2:You make the point. It's also the complete antithesis of Labor Cup. Right, they can pull the levers, as you say, or pull the labors, as the dad joke might be inclined to say. I mean, they can do, are not going to put you in a situation where you are embarrassed. You are not going to go out there. You're compromised, you're not going to lose, you know. One and one to Taylor Fritz. So in a way I think this kind of makes sense. It takes a little bit of pressure off Rafa. Look, it's not my last match. I've already committed to September and he knows singles, doubles with Roger, fancifully, more realistically with not, but he's not going to be humiliated in his last official match and that probably you know.
Speaker 1:That's not irrelevant yeah, and and one more little kind of tie-in. Um and I'm not comparing, so just don't take this the wrong way like some of Um, my last tournament that I ever played the U S open obviously different from labor cup, but I retired early in that event had another week that I won, survived, did all that stuff. One of my favorite parts about that week was passing people in a hallway them knowing I'm gone forever, me knowing I'm gone forever, and actually settling into a nice conversation and a goodbye. If you're Rafa and you've been playing all of these guys for so long and you're their idol and they've looked up to you and you've had these experiences, you've had these battles you've had how nice is it to have four or five days to say goodbye? Right, like in in in the fans that are going to buy at Berlin are going to buy that ticket. It's similar to Vegas, like I did. I did the Netflix special. Those were rough of fans who thought they would. They were.
Speaker 1:He was never going to play stateside again. They could be right. I don't. I would guess he's not going to play stateside again. They could be right. I don't. I would guess he's not going to play the us open. You're going to get that in berlin. I thought it was crazy town when you texted I'm like there's no way he's going to like play laver cup after the french open, like. And then I started thinking about it and it makes a lot of sense. Oh, and, by the way, he just might get paid for it well, I mean in the uh.
Speaker 3:Amazon has the documentary for Federer's retirement. It's all based around the cup in 12 days. I'm sure he saw that and he was like, wow, this is a good way to go out. Maybe it'll be a documentary that comes out of it too.
Speaker 1:Like that's the most producer take that I've ever heard on anything is how do we get content?
Speaker 3:I mean it's 100 percent what they're going to do. I guarantee. I guarantee a Federer's doc comes out right before uh, this laver cup and boom.
Speaker 1:I mean if, if Roger shows up, I almost hope they cause Roger could exist and he could, he could pass off practices Like I just wanted to hit with my friend again like very easily, and then I don't, don't announce the lineups, just have him fucking walk out with rafa. Can you imagine?
Speaker 2:daniel lusa is going to fight. I have goosebumps.
Speaker 1:I literally have goosebumps. Just talking about it right now, I could see if I see those two just cruise down for like another hit and oh my god, how good that would be. I I had not thought about it yet, john, and now you're saying it and it's your fault when I'm disappointed we book a trip to berlin I, I think I would go to see that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I would um, john, would you leave your hostage center to come join us?
Speaker 2:I would. I would go to berlin's, a cool too. But yeah, you can go, that would be you know, it only makes sense that these guys who have been yoked together, yeah, you know these guys have been bracketed together. Their whole careers would go out the same way.
Speaker 1:The one little thing that I just don't want to want to throw into this is like Does Novak deserve to be? Like, sharing in these goodbyes? Also, like that's are you? Are you trying to start something? No, I'm not. I'm trying to be like a. I'm trying to do a pot, like, either way it's going to be. Like, why didn't you talk about him being in it? Or, oh, you brought him up to the last minute. There's no win. There's no win. Like I'm as a fan. I'm also wondering, like I would love Lever Cup can make up their own rules. What if Rafa played a set with each and said, fuck it. Like I don't care about the rules, like do it. Like we can get a sign off from the captains Like a waiver. That would be amazing. That would be so cool. Anyways, neither here nor there, but it is cool Anytime. More Rafa when we expect less rafa. Good times.
Speaker 1:So, speaking of retirements, uh, there was a big one this week. Uh, garbine muga ruta. Uh, french open champion, wimbledon champion, former number one, um, you have been vocal on your social mediums, uh, about her case for hall of fame. I'm surprised there's been pushback with with that a little bit. I guess the internet will hate, like half the people will hate everything but, um, like, talk about what is her legacy with the game. I mean, she beat venus in one final of a grand slam, serena in another. Um, what do you think of? When you think of garbine mugaru, though?
Speaker 2:yeah, this is a two major winner. I think that one of my favorite tennis stats, which is she won 10 titles, eight of them were on hard courts, the other two roland garros and wimbledon, that's not a good, good, uh good, little quirky stat. No, I, I think you know. I mean, you're right, it's social media. You say Sacramento is the capital of California and 20 people tell you you're a Nevada hater and you know it was San Jose before Sacramento. Give them some credit. But no, I think that this is a Hall of Fame worthy player.
Speaker 2:Her results were a bit all over the map, which to me always made her kind of fun to watch. You know her careers are not linear. It's entirely possible you'll get to number one, win a major and then get bounced in the second round with the next one. I always enjoyed covering her. There was a lot of game. I mean I look when you size up careers. A lot of times I look to prize money. I think it's a pretty good metric. She won $25 million. So that, to me, says this is a very, very strong career.
Speaker 2:Two majors, a WTA final Did she necessarily max out all of her talent? Perhaps not, but I think next stop Newport and I'm not quite sure why suggesting a two-time major winner, who got to number one and won almost 500 matches, as a Hall of Famer is a controversial statement. But you know, social media and all but no. Good for Garbini Muguruza. I mean, she was on. It's a little strange, right, we're talking about Rafa and Andy Murray and Stan and Venus. We're sort of this retirement, this sort of career goal pool, this obituary watch. I'm not sure Garbine Muguruza would be the player everyone had as the next to retire, but she's been out a while in this sort of self-imposed hiatus.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure how happy she was, honestly on the tour these last few years. Good for her 30 years old. She's had a hell of a career. She goes out. You'll notice she did this right before madrid. So I imagine we're, of course, taping this prior, but I can't imagine there isn't going to be, uh, quite a a lengthy and endearing ceremony wishing her well and good. You know, good, good for her, she, uh, she. She gave a lot more than she took and we'll see her in Newport.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's going to be in the Hall of Fame and I get it all the time. Anytime I post anything about the Hall of Fame, it's like one major. There's different ways, there's counting stats, there's percentage of matches won. You win Wimbledon in the French Open and you're number one in the world, and you win 500 matches. Stop it it. You're number one in the world and you win 500 matches. Stop it.
Speaker 1:It's the most difficult hall of fame on earth to get into, based on the amount of players that get in. You're talking, you know, a handful of players, every single generation, not a year, not a year like. We struggle to put in one a year sometimes, and obviously the floodgates are going to open. Uh, you know, as we're waiting for these monsters I don't see monsters like, they're human monsters, like but just these tennis monsters start coming in. No brainer, no brainer. And she deserves that day. Right, and we talked about, kind of the delta between Rabakuna's best and when she's less than her best, muguruza. I have to say Muguruza, because that's another one where I have to say her name the way that they say it in her country. But I did, but it's, you know, anyways, I digress. She, she's a Hall of Famer. She's a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1:Precedent has been set. If I should be the worst person that gets in, like I say that, no, like I I could. I was like embarrassed that I got in right away and I think it's just cause I could tell jokes Um, but you're laughing, but it's kind of true, um, a little true. Uh, she's, she's in and she deserves that day and she will care and it's a massive deal. That's where you, that's where you want to spend your tennis afterlife and she will have that moment where she walks into the museum and sees all of the names that have been superheroes to her and she gets to rest with them for the rest of her tennis life. And that is a big, big, big deal, big, big big deal. And people minimizing it on Twitter have no fucking idea. I've been it, I've walked through it, I've been humbled by it. She deserves it, she will have it. I can tell you where my vote's going right now and I look, comb through these numbers and I'm pretty critical and I like ask a lot of she's in, she's in.
Speaker 2:Darwin Blanche, who we mentioned before, is ranked outside the top 1000. So we're talking about more than a thousand players playing at any one given time. Um, I think the best point that some of this is about inclusivity versus exclusivity, and others, you know, are the standards. To just do the math, compare this to other sports. We are talking about more than a thousand men and women. So we're, you know, we're 2,500 eligible players and we're talking about every year letting in two, three if it's a double, the four.
Speaker 2:Tennis's standards are no easier than any other sport. We could probably save a hall of fame discussion for later, but I think this is one of these topics that actually has gotten a lot of currency recently, and I think it matters more to the players than ever. It matters more to the fans. I think this used to be sort of an obscure thing once a summer, and now I find that a lot of players care about it too. I mean, I think, with Mugu and you will note, we all strenuously avoid having to use the, you know the Catalan TH. We'll just call it. There you go. We nailed it.
Speaker 3:Wait cut and paste.
Speaker 2:You can be the MC for her induction ceremony, but let's save it as a Hall of Fame discussion for later and just keep this focused on a really towering player who again won two majors beat Sarita to win one, beat us to win the other Good tennis citizen, just like a good person to have around. Player who again won two majors beat serena to win one, beat us to win the other good, good tennis citizen, just like a good person to have around. Uh, there are things we can argue about and have robust, uh meaningful, you know, agree to disagree arguments. This, this one's silly.
Speaker 1:So see a new poor kid, yeah and uh, I know, I know you got a rush. Uh, rush off, uh jw. Thanks for uh, your time today. We're about an hour in um, but we can argue all we want about Mugu Rufa, but those arguments are going to end in Newport, rhode Island. She's going to be a Hall of Famer. John Wertheim, I'm just saying I'll vote for you. They have different categories. I'm just throwing it out there. I'll vote. I got Wertheim for Hall of Fame as well. Get out of here.
Speaker 2:I won't make you respond to that because you'll get all weird again. In the spirit of challengers, I'm going to be a throuples entrant. Oh, that's another thing.
Speaker 1:I mean as awkward as we can be, we might as well end this week's episode of Served with a throuple reference JW thanks. Thanks for listening to Serve.