Andy Roddick catches up with BJK Captain, former Grand Slam Champion, Lindsay Davenport about their recent qualifying round against Belgium, her experiences as a tennis parent, Darwin Blanch's match against Rafa, winning her Olympic Gold Medal, and hashes out a recent misunderstanding between Andy and Lindsay…
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Andy Roddick catches up with BJK Captain, former Grand Slam Champion, Lindsay Davenport about their recent qualifying round against Belgium, her experiences as a tennis parent, Darwin Blanch's match against Rafa, winning her Olympic Gold Medal, and hashes out a recent misunderstanding between Andy and Lindsay…
Keep up with us on socials!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/servedpodcast/
X: https://twitter.com/Served_Podcast
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@served_podcast?_t=8jZtCnzdAnX&_r=1
Watch the Episodes on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0k_--YLuTNuDvq1Dw4zHmw
Hello and welcome to the Served Podcast with me, andy Roddick. Thank you for liking, subscribing, listening wherever you get your podcasts, as promised my friend I hope we're still friends she was pissed off at me a couple weeks ago, so we're going to have a therapy. Pissed off at me a couple weeks ago, so we're going to have a therapy session right in front of all of you coming up. And one of my favorite parts this might be three months in. This might be one of my favorite parts. Watch Lindsay's face as I read off her credentials. This is the best.
Speaker 2:I'm getting an end call in the beginning.
Speaker 1:Then we have no show, then it's T2. We have no show, then it's t2. We have no show. So you're kind of stuck for a second uh 55 singles titles, 38 doubles, three majors uh eighth woman to ever win, 700 matches. She ended up with 753 just showed off in the last 53, four times. This is for me this is the most impressive uh, four times year-end number one uh and through an olympic gold for good measure. And she hates talking about her accomplishments, maybe more than any other human alive, so I won't make her awkwardly say something after I read off her credentials. Uh, lindsey, uh, you know I love you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, uh for coming on and joining uh served well, I had to come on like you're taking over, like my son's listening I. He won't like read a book or do a school, but he like dies every week to see when your episode is like coming out or like listening to it and then telling us all about it. So I share a lot about it so wait he's.
Speaker 1:He's becoming like john, he's just not reading any books zero studying, zero education going on.
Speaker 2:So really the pressure falls on you because you're about all he listens to.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, that's a, that's a low bar. Um, so I I do want to get straight to it. Um, cause I did talk about how I fear a couple of things on on this podcast. I don't fear much feedback, like I'm okay with most speed bumps On this podcast. I don't fear much feedback, like I'm okay with most speed bumps.
Speaker 1:Two things I fear is I know anytime I say anything nice or bad about Novak I'm going to get slaughtered one way or the other, like that's a given. And I said I fear you being mad at me. It really hit me more than I thought it would. So I'm going to give you my take from my side and then I want you to tell me what I'm getting wrong and provide me the appropriate context. So Lindsey just finished her first successful weekend as captain for Billy Gene King Cup did a great job down there in Orlando. Great job, uh, down there in orlando. And so in the lead-in, uh I'm doing, uh, what's? Uh, what do we call it? Uh, internet thing on on tc live, the segment we do where we don't see the internet clips and also I will say I can't hear them, so I'm reacting to like a video oh, because is that really?
Speaker 2:that's true, can't hear them.
Speaker 1:I can't okay, I can't, okay, I can't. I can only hear Prakash's thing. I can't hear his things when he's interviewing internationally. I get world feed and I'm watching the studio, but it doesn't change my opinion because I have watched it since. So I said something that was horrible. I actually pissed Lindsay off. We have the clip. We can play it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, we can play it right now. Great, okay, yeah, go ahead. No problem, this is Eminem Navarro. Not that many of us have degrees, but I am quite sure we can all agree.
Speaker 1:We'll look back on this time with smiley faces.
Speaker 2:There's more, not mass, not mass. There's more no más, no más.
Speaker 1:There's more. So, y'all this is Rookie Rap, I'll tell you. I, oh Crowd goes wild, apparently. That's just. I mean, even to make that effort is To make. The effort is an, a plus, just to make the effort. Well, you have to, it's part of being on the team. What I will say is, like, the best thing about her rap ability is that she's playing great tennis this year. Yeah, that's all that matters. That's all the matter.
Speaker 1:She did it in the right style okay, so like I, so lindsey texts me and it's like, basically it goes full. Mama bear right is is like it's the night before or you know, her first day of captaincy. So I'm hoping she was just nervous and needed to like I took John's place and she just needed to like annihilate someone for the day. So I got in trouble for basically saying that Emma Navarro is a better tennis player than a rapper, which I would have. I didn't hear the rap during the first reaction during the segment we're talking about. I just looked and all of the enthused fans faces and it was. It was like someone like kicked a puppy or something. That was their reaction, and so I just need you to say like why you were so pissed at me, because it what I said, like do you think Emma Navarro is a better rapper than tennis player?
Speaker 2:no, but you were such a dick about it like okay. So here is this black, amazing young lady honestly like amazing sport, super shy lady and gets like thrown into this situation.
Speaker 1:We didn't even tell her she had to do this, who threw her into this, this shy person, into this situation?
Speaker 2:okay, okay, so it's my very first captain's meeting. I'm like you know me. I'm like stressed about everything. I'm like, okay, how many feet can I walk from the bench? Who can I talk to? What are the rules? Like trying to learn everything.
Speaker 2:And the Belgian captain Wim just said great coach, who's obviously done it before was like, oh, by the way, I have a rookie, I'm gonna have her give a speech at the reception. I was like, yeah, yeah, that's fine, like no problem. And I'm like, okay, wait. So what happens when you know? So I'm going back to like the captain's meeting. So I forgot about it, my bad.
Speaker 2:So we're in literally in the bus on the way to the official reception. You know all the dignitaries from the countries and ITF are there and very nice woman from the USTA, jessica, is going over with me exactly how the rundown of it's going to go for the team and she mentions like the rookie speech. I was like, oh shit, I forgot to tell her. So I'm like was like, oh, emma, there's like an, a rookie thing. And I think like they had him speak or like do a rap. Someone had like I remember hearing that before and Taylor Townsend goes oh yeah, you got to give a rap and she's like in 15 minutes and we're like, yeah, and I didn't think anything of it. She kind of gets quiet and gets on her phone.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you literally wrote it on the way there. Yeah, I don't know. I mean preparation might've solved for all of my, my comments. I mean I don't so okay.
Speaker 2:Wait, you're not, you have to. Let me finish here. So the belgian ricky goes and gives a very nice speech, just thanking the belgian federation and her coaches, and really simple. So I'm like, oh, emma's gonna get up there and do that. And no, she rapped for like six verses and kept going and, uh, I thought she was great for a shy person to get up there and do that. Um was awesome. And then you on our on the show, just kind of shit all over her. And then I went like I shown the team. I was like can you believe? He said this oh good, thank you. Yeah, let's make it a bigger deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's let's let's, let's, let's make it even bigger deal that. That should help her embarrassment. Our guest list is gonna show.
Speaker 2:This is actually the best part. Then you I I'm sure I still have it here you then sent me like nine texts. Like really, are you really mad, I'm so sorry. Like oh, like so then I was like reading it to maiden taylor or somebody she's like, oh, leave them on red, just leave them on red. So I was like okay, I'm not gonna answer them. That was like my big thing for like 24 hours.
Speaker 1:Two things can be true, right, so the two things can be true. I like having her like what do you want? Should I applaud effort and also I need you to. I need you to also. The goal of having her do something embarrassing is what.
Speaker 2:To. It was like the history of it, Didn't you guys used to do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we all ripped on each other afterwards.
Speaker 2:Well, but I don't know, I was. I was impressed that she did it. She could have kind of weaseled out of it and just gave like a little speech. The other thing I just also think that she is your type of player. I mean, this player is all about competing and like fiery and will figure it out, doesn't walk away, doesn't look for the exit and like here, here, here's the thing, okay.
Speaker 1:So even on air, any opinion I've ever had of her and I we, we go back and forth and, believe it or not, lindsey and I actually have a very good relationship.
Speaker 2:I would say, or at least I hope so I think so.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm going nine and 90 and she's going 10. But you know, we trade texts about players and talk about you know things. I love Emma Navarro, like I think she is awesome. Like for the life of me, out of everything that's ever come out of my mouth around Lindsay Davenport, I would have lost our house thinking that the thing that was offensive was saying that she the best thing about her rapping ability is that she's great at tennis it was your.
Speaker 2:You gave like a moan and a grunt, like like all of that. The whole vibe was a little negative. I felt like I thought Paul was trying to be very positive and I'm just um you know what it is a little more supportive of of of people doing embarrassing shit.
Speaker 1:I could not be more supportive of that. I couldn't be more supportive of people doing embarrassing stuff also like I, I just, I just like I you're, you're the coach, you're. But like, if you sit here and tell me that was the greatest thing ever, we're losing credibility as a captain the way I see it, like okay, can we move on?
Speaker 2:what's the next topic go?
Speaker 1:I just you know I listen I. But I will say, having lindsey mad at me and when she sent it I didn't know if she was just giving me shit back, which is like what she's prone to do, like she troll, if I ever have like a, you know, a late night and she gets off, she'll try and I love it and it's the best right. You, you know, if you're gonna give it, you got to be able to take it. I felt it hurt my soul to think that, and it was like the day that she was like the her first day of captaining. I wake up the next morning because she sent it at like 11 30, like you send stuff at 11 30 because it's been pissing you off all day, like absolutely. And so I wake up the next morning. I'm like my heart.
Speaker 2:Actually not true. That wasn't true. You can't tell me what. I didn't see the clip until, like, I was in bed like searching like social media, so but I wrote you right away when I saw it. I didn't like it, okay.
Speaker 1:I it. I didn't get it until the next morning. And then I was trying to ask the question of like, without digging my hole further of I can't tell if you're really mad at me or not Because I didn't want to discount the way that she was feeling, but also I couldn't believe that in the history of our relationship, this was the thing that was too far.
Speaker 2:No, but I will say he was pretty banged up about it. I. That was too far. No, but I will say he was pretty, he was pretty banged up about it. I was taping that day I was like, before I was like I'm asking the like our team you got you got him deep, so I you know what it worked I don't like it.
Speaker 1:I don't like it when lindsey's mad at me. Like I, I stand by what I said, like I'm not we're just gonna disagree. I would have never guessed that oh my god, we're gonna disagree on it. I you know, two things can be true I, I don't think what I said was that bad, and also, I never want emma to like be with your tone.
Speaker 2:Your tone was shitty, oh shit.
Speaker 1:You know you sound like brooke, it's not. It's not the facts and it's not the output, it's the tone which I can't well, I mean it was, but it was more like the tone, like all I do is I see her and I can't hear it, and then it pans to the crowd. It's literally no less than 150 old white people that was my video too.
Speaker 1:I think that was me taking that video okay so another thing that like okay, it's, then you put it on the internet. Like I don't know, I didn't put it on the internet it's not.
Speaker 2:That wasn't the clip. The clip on the internet was from, like, the official people. They made it look much nicer and they put like a beat behind it.
Speaker 1:Listen to that one we'll think, oh good, so sorry, so we just so. It's actually I now. Okay, let's, let's just come to a let's. We're going to close the loop on this I forgave you. We moved on where I think our common ground is is that, mike, you didn't get me the one that lindsey had applied mad beats to so we need to give it up. We need to give it you know what to settle this conversation so we can move on.
Speaker 1:It's my fault, yeah okay well, let's, let's make a transition away. I hope we're fine. I just needed to get, we need to clear the air before we could, you know, have have a normal conversation. Uh, beyond the rap, um, your girls did an unbelievable job Day one. I thought you kind of got thrown into the fire right away because, even though you all were the overwhelming favorites, a couple of tight ones Describe that day. Going in, I can tell you were nervous because you were berating me. But walk us through that day what your expectations were, how proud you were of your team for maybe not even playing their best, but just us through that day what your expectations were. Uh, how proud you were of your team for maybe not even playing their best, but just figuring it out Like those are actually better wins, I think because of that.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree more. It was early in the week, um, when it was just Kugula who said like, oh, I don't even care what they ranked. Everybody knows that people play their best in these situations, in this format, in this event. So the team was kind of prepared for that. We played in 2000, and I told the ladies about this, I think it was Celis and Capriotti, myself and Lisa Raymond we played a young Belgian team that was Kleisters and Enner, and we knew that they were these great juniors and I think we all went three sets. It was like crazy and it was like, oh wow, that was maybe tougher than we thought it was going to be. These young Belgians played great. It was actually super fun to see they were ready for the moment, and you kind of love that also when you're watching, because you see some players go out there and they're maybe like deer in the headlights. These two young ladies were not and the there and they're maybe like deer in the headlights. These two young ladies were not um, and the first match just did not play her best. She's been trying to change a few things, as you know, and we were um kind of working on a couple things that she would brought into the week and she didn't play her best, but you know what she like fought really hard and that was great. She was able to get the win um, which really helped the team.
Speaker 2:Emma then goes out there. This was actually for me the craziest moment of like the whole week. So all week in practice, um, all everyone was playing really well. Um Madison came up just like a little bit with a foot that was bugging her. Um Taylor was a little bit sick all week. So we were kind of dealing with a little like every week there's always a little things that kind of come up. But Emma was playing amazing and all the practices winning and feeling good. She gets down a break early in the first and I was like Emma, you're not using your forehand. Like you, that's been your most improved shot. It's like your biggest weapon now with your fitness, like you got to start using your forehand. She just looks at me with these like calm eyes. She's like well, you know, every time I hit my forehand I have this like shooting pain going down my elbow into my hand and like my hand is tingling. It feels like a little numb. I was like wait what?
Speaker 1:Wait, how many games into your captaincy is this Seven?
Speaker 2:Said three, four in the first and I was like really, and she's like, yeah, and she's kind of like shaking her arm out and I'm like, well, we should call the trainer. So this was the second best part. She's like I've never called a trainer, I don't really want to do that. I'm like, oh, okay, so he gets up, I go and talk, like turn around and talk to the team physio, and she's like nope, nope, hadn't heard that. So she comes back over, it's four or five. We talk a little bit again.
Speaker 2:Anyway she loses the set and I said I think you should probably call the physio out. Um, even if she helps you like five percent, it might really help. Maybe she gives you even more relief. And that seemed like a huge thing for her. She was like quiet for a few seconds and then she was like okay, let's do it. So that was, I think, like whatever phobia she had about that, she got over that. Um, she then gets down a break in the second and she's trying to figure out exactly how can I hit my shot without it like resonating pain, like down my whole arm? Um, gets down a break and get two, three, and she just kind of looks at me and goes like, don't worry, I'm going to figure this out.
Speaker 2:Time to get Brady and she just kind of gets up and, sure enough, figures out a way to win um, gets through the match. Um at four, three in the third I don't know if you saw that she had break point to get up five, three. I've actually never seen this either. Emma's, 10 feet behind the baseline, throws up a defensive lob and um Belgian shanks her overhead going into the back fence and it hits Emma on the fly. So so we're at 4-3 deuce and we're dying. Everyone is like, oh my god. And she just laughs it off, no problem, wins the next two points, wins the match 6-3 and, like any other player, kind of be freaking out and she's just like so cool out there, um, nothing faced her and uh, that match was like the craziest, probably introduction I could have gotten to. Maybe, uh, this new job that's an.
Speaker 1:those are things like as nervous as you get when you're playing, like I never got more nervous than home ties in Davis cup. I don't know how you feel about it, but talk through the nerves that you feel, as you know, when you used to have to play and now, as as a captain, I I I would guess they're worse now, but is that? Is that a leap?
Speaker 2:Um, I think probably the same. Um, you know, it was so funny in leading up to doing this I talked to everyone. I knew that had kind of done this role. Before I talked to Jim, talked to Mary Jo, but I spent like an hour on the phone with Billie Jean and she was so funny, like I had no idea. She was like oh, do you remember when you were yelling at me on a changeover, like I wasn't helping and I wasn't paying attention?
Speaker 1:Oh good, so like I wasn't helping and I wasn't paying attention, oh good, so I'm not the only one, I'm in good company.
Speaker 2:I was like we didn't do that. She's like, yes, you did, that was against Spain. And she was like he's like you don't even care, You're not even watching. I'm like I didn't say that. And she's like, oh, yeah, you did. So she kept like going over all these things, which obviously is like craziest nerves going through your system, right. Like why would I ever yell that at Billie Jean? Like sitting there, obviously she's like on the bench trying to help me. Um, I felt bad that first day that I felt like I wasn't helping them play better tennis. Um, so I was kind of taking the blame there. I was happy on day two just played amazing match and under an hour one. Um, but I was nervous. I was nervous for them. I was was nervous for the team. It was an amazing group that kind of banded together and wanted them to do well. Um, but yeah, playing is tough. I mean you want to almost like throw up before you go out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we, we kind of I think lindsey and I like talking tennis because I think we both felt like we were going to vomit before we went on the court, like every single time, and I'll tell you, I want to get get back to Billie Jean King Cup. I want to talk about, kind of the five months leading in. What made you say yes to the job and then, as we march to the finals, but Lindsay and I end up doing a lot of you know, corporate appearances during the US Open and we have a you know kind of we've heard the same stories from each other numerous times. And Lindsay, I didn't believe her at first. I thought she was exaggerating, and now I do.
Speaker 1:Someone will ask her a question of like how did you feel? Like something kind of you know straightforward that you would expect. How did you feel before a Grand Slam final? And Lindsay will say something absurd, because if you've ever watched Lindsay, she's never like she's going to square up the ball every time and the ball is going to leave her racket faster than it came. And she'll say something like I just wanted to win a game. I was so scared about losing 0-0. And it's the most insane shit that I've ever heard. But I actually, you actually like felt that way.
Speaker 2:Totally insecure. I played in I think it's seven singles finals and felt like that way every single time. I think I always had this fear of like being embarrassed. And so I remember saying it to John like early on in our relationship, like before I went out on some big match, like oh, not everybody always know, and he was like wait, what it's like, your rank one or two or whatever. I always was like fearing the worst out there it's like, and playing in front of a lot of people did not give me joy and I was always super envious of people that went out there and to like be relaxed and make it look like a show I would love to go play Like.
Speaker 2:My favorite US opening was actually I think it was 93. Favorite US Open was actually I think it was 93. I just turned 17, I think it was that year. They only seeded 16 back then but I was unseeded. It's the only US Open I played in singles matches on the field courts like the greatest, my best win in the third round I beat Amanda Koetzer, seeded, I don't know, somewhere 13 through 16 and it was like the hardcore US tennis fans there. And that is honestly some of my right favorite memories because from then on out I was like on one of the two short show courts and it just caused more stress for me than joy so they wouldn't.
Speaker 1:Did you petition them in the 98 final to maybe just like? Did you request to play on grandstand?
Speaker 2:I tried to mature and tried to accept it. But I don't know, I think, if you're not that comfortable in the limelight or with the focus on you, I don't know if you ever become fully comfortable with that. And players talk a little bit more about it now with, like, their mental health and all that, but back then, like you couldn't say a word, you were like viewed as incredibly weak or like whenever. I remember Jim Currier telling me a story how players used to like basically like hide to go see at the time the one sports psychologist some players were using Dr Jim Laird. He's like they literally go hide. They didn't want anyone to know they were doing that. Now it's a lot more open. Players are getting a lot more help and willing to talk about it, which I think probably has to help the other players. I felt like I was the only one who was like wanting to throw up in the locker room before most matches.
Speaker 1:It's weird. I felt like I was going to throw up, but like I wasn't, like it wouldn't I, I would have hated it because I would have felt like I'm not good, like mine wasn't. Like it sounds like you knew the tennis was there. You just didn't like the other stuff surrounding. I could have cared less if there were 12 people in the stands or 40,000 people in the stands.
Speaker 1:Mine was like I was insecure about like ability, like I wanted to vomit, cause I'm like I felt like I had to execute so perfectly just to lose closely, but it wasn't, you know. But it's just so strange that you kind of share emotions but like the reasoning behind it is is just different. Like I wasn't, like I was good at being embarrassed, like I do it to myself all the time, like that wasn't an issue, but also like so you, you go out there, you feel all of these things, but you were pretty stoic, like you didn't react, you weren't like someone who got up and like, basically, we would just see like the most violent eye roll of all time sometimes. But so that's just like it's weird, cause we associate people who were, uh, more quiet, stoic, uh, I guess maybe like emotionally disciplined on court, with not being nervous, and that that that wasn't really the case for you.
Speaker 2:No, it wasn't. And I think like just I would come out the other way where I was just like mean to myself or, um, well, just not I. It's tough the bigger the occasion. It's not like I enjoyed it more. It wasn't like, oh, this is what we're playing for. It's five on the third. Here we go, here's my chance. It it was like I was always kind of fighting myself. Obviously there's opponents where you're like you better be all in or you're it's going to be a tough day. Steffi, serena obviously the great players, but more often than not I felt like I was like battling myself like even more on most occasions um, how open are you with your team?
Speaker 1:So let's kind of backtrack. You get offered the job. You're very good at like sourcing information. Like you go and kind of find the smartest people who have been there before you mentioned talking to Billie Jean, jim, mary Jo You're always really really, really good at that what kind of made you lean in and say yes and then, once you accepted the job, what was the process like? Obviously like outreach to different players, because you kind of have a. It's weird, you have a great team, but also it's like it's like you're going to be spoiled for choice sometimes, like you have so many good players that that has to be kind of its own little little caveat that's not easy to navigate. So kind of, how did you handle kind of the buildup and, like maybe, the initial?
Speaker 2:outreach. Well, it's funny, I also talked to Bob quite a bit. He helped. A ton grew up with Bob in Southern California. I also talked to you and you told me never take it. You remember saying that to me at the US.
Speaker 1:Open. No, I don't think I said that you did too. You to meet the us? No, I don't think I said that you're like. No, you did um, I don't think that's true. It is true. I'll go back and look at those messages and read them in the post.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, a great example is daniel collins. I had to pick the team by I'm gonna get it wrong. Like march 6th or something. Daniel collins was like 59. There was six or seven players ranked in front of her at that time. She is amazing, of amazing, at representing her country. But I had to talk to her and just say, for this tie, no. And then look what happens. By the time the tie was actually played she was like 15 in the world Could not have been sweeter, more supportive. But Mary Jo also told me you know, there was one year I don't want to get the number wrong, but I think there was only like four players in the top 60 or 80 or whatever she said Like. So I realized that it's amazing to have all these players. At one point there was 17 in the top hundred. I think we're at 16 now. Um, a lot of players at the top, obviously led by Coco. Um, so I'm going to try and put together the best team that I can every time.
Speaker 2:But the other thing that is big for me is also the camaraderie between everybody. Like we want to have a great week. You want to have everybody cheering each other on building each other up. You know we all have played under different rules. Every captain kind of brings in their own kind of unique twist on it. You know Billy was like adamant, there's no personal coaches around. This is a team week. We're getting we're 49, 50 weeks a year. You guys can go do whatever you want for these two or three weeks. You're with me. It's going to be about the team. You guys are going to learn to help each other and I remember one time doing two-on-ones with Celis and maybe one of the hitting partners, and you know Monica and I weren't really good at that. We're like hitting winners on the two side. What the hell are you guys doing?
Speaker 1:you're on the two side yeah, we have to keep the ball in play and not hit it hard. That's such a problem for them not to hit it hard.
Speaker 2:Monica the sweetest person. She was like oh, I've never really done this before, but I'll do whatever know. So you kind of like have this learning curve there. Um, I think Bob told me and Patrick was Matt McEnroe was saying like no spouses or girlfriends until like Thursday or Friday or something of your Davis cup weeks. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:I was trying to get back to that where it was like the players working together, You've got to be able to practice with each other. You've got to be able to give your um teammate what they need to practice sometimes as well, and these five ladies were great at it. So that part made it easy. We'll see when we get to Spain it's in November they changed the format again. One problem with this event and I think you probably see it and have the same frustration with Davis Cup it's like you can't keep changing the format every year, so we're going different dates and different formats and we just found out about it in the last few days. So that's a challenge we have to get back to kind of the history of the event and some stability.
Speaker 1:So wait, so you guys qualify for the finals under a certain format and then you just found out post-qualification that it's different. Can you explain what the changes are and where it's landed?
Speaker 2:they used to be home and away ties. We just played the one country. The last few years they've been in spain and it's been around robin a three different groups and then the winners, or maybe it's four different groups, and then the winners went through the semis. Now and they've gone back to. This is like crazy to me. It's 12 teams. Four teams have a buy into the second draw. Eight teams are playing knockout format to get four teams to the second draw to join those four. I was like wait, what? It's not round robin anymore, it's knockout, and so I guess we can go all the way to Spain and hopefully we don't lose our first match. It's a long way to go, but, um, yeah, they're gonna. They we found out in the last few days. So I know they're trying to build the event and Billy is a huge part of it, so obviously we give it a go. But I just think that at certain point we got some stability to the event again. I mean.
Speaker 1:I I just don't fully understand when, like the, the kind of consistent critique of whether it's billy jean cup, formerly fed cup, uh, davis cup, is like it's hard to follow throughout the year. Like there's, it does well in a local market because we're basically advertising these great players. They're coming in for three days, so you know, we used to play in winston-salem a bunch, so they got it like we're gonna see threes and we're gonna, we're gonna like america. Then once you leave, I don't know where the event goes from there. Right, like it's. It's just hard to follow and literally I felt like I needed to go back and take a math course when you were explaining it. It's like how, how is how is making it more difficult? I don't know. Uh, it's, it's easy to to come up with solutions. Um, taking this job, how important was it?
Speaker 2:that you had coached before with with Maddie. Oh, that's interesting, I think a lot. I think there was some comfort there also with having her um, you know, obviously in the top 20 or so. Um, but helpful.
Speaker 2:I think a bigger thing is just following tennis in a consistent basis where I feel like I know the players pretty well. Even though personally I might not know all of them that well, I feel like because of my work on tennis channel I know almost all of their games. I have a pretty good handle on the other players from other countries did not have quite as good a handle on the Belgian juniors that are coming through, but for the other countries. So I felt like I knew exactly kind of the tennis that I was signing up for. Um I I felt pretty good about it and I'm also kind of I'm involved a lot with the usta and player development because of my son jagger. He's part of that program, so I'm around like the system a lot.
Speaker 2:So it felt like if there was any time I was going to do it, it was going to be now and um being in Orlando quite a bit, we live in Florida now so I spend a lot of time there um, the timing felt right. The players right now are doing amazing. It kind of felt like cheating that I could walk in and there's, you know, two players in the top 10, with Goff and Fugula. There's another four and know right between 11 and 25 or whatever it is. So and I like them all. They all have a great vibe.
Speaker 2:I think in American tennis right now the divide between everyone is at an all-time high. I certainly know when I played it was called Fed Cup, like there was no chance we were going to have some of the Davis Cuppers there watching us. And here we had in Orlando, we had Ben Shelton, we had Chris Eubanks, we had Mackie McDonald. I just think like everyone's getting a long rate between the pros are practicing with the juniors, are helping the collegiate players. It just felt like a really good time to be kind of involved in this.
Speaker 1:Well, that's cool. I think I think they're lucky to have you. I think I said I would never do it, I don't know. I think I said I would never do it. I don't know. I think you're.
Speaker 2:That could be true actually. I mean, you could be right. You said, yeah, that could be right.
Speaker 1:I think I said I would never do it for many, many, many reasons, but I think I was generally. I think you were overthinking it and I think you're the person for the job.
Speaker 2:I think you're actually right. I take that back. So you actually right, I I take that back. So you can maybe accept part out, but I do know I'm gonna find it and I'm gonna play it in post and that's that.
Speaker 1:Um, uh, I I think and I won't make you comment on the back of a compliment, because I know that's your worst fear but I think it they're lucky to have you. I think you're gonna do a great job. I think the amount that you care, even when no one's actually watching you care is is is huge, and I know the players can feel that as well. You mentioned Jagger and there's it's so fascinating to me because I know your children. We've spent time around each other's children. I don't say this, you know, kind of trying to grandstand, cause you're on, you and John are amazing parents like really, really, really involved, fantastic. You guys have completely opposite ways to go about it and I think that is like it's like this perfect, uh, mix of harmony. But Jagger is a really, really, really good player. Right, he's a, he's a really good junior. He has been, um, you know, I've hit with him. I remember when I'm hitting with him, you have like zero. You didn't say a word.
Speaker 1:And John talked a lot, which is kind of standard for dinner but also translates to talk through the challenges of having done what you've done. And John played, you know doubles on tour as well, and he was a really good college player. You know doubles on tour as well and, as he was, was a really good college player. Talk through the kind of the challenges on what's the cadence between input, because you know it, versus stepping back because maybe that's what's what's called for at the time. Kind of talk about that delicate balance of having been a former player, knowing this, you know you're the captain of our nation's team, but also you have a child who's kind of going through maybe some paces that you've been through before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, first I have to say, like my parents never got involved in my tennis. It's a tough sport. I mean in juniors you see a lot of different things. And my parents were smart enough to know they knew sports, but they didn't know tennis. John came from a tennis family and his dad was his coach, but they didn't know tennis. John came from a tennis family and his dad was his coach and they had an amazing experience with it. That's not always the case. So he kind of came into it when we were having kids. Like oh no, it's going to be the greatest we're going to have. All these kids, they're all going to play tennis. And I say that, and you know every kid is different. So we have four children. They all learned how to play. Three of them quit. So like I blame John, I like didn't make it more fun enough.
Speaker 2:That's his fault yeah, but, um, you know, with similar to the Billie Jean King Cup, like the very first week and you know my personality, I'm not gonna say too much, I'm not gonna kind of go crazy and change. So I tried to be like a little bit more careful with Billie Jean King Cup and try and keep it a little bit more general. I'm just getting to know a lot of these players. The very first week I'm not going to be like so why do you hold that grip? Why are you doing that? So with our son I don't know why it is Jagger is incredibly coachable and I think you would hear that from kind of anybody who's like been on court with him. He takes it pretty well. He doesn't give it back to us and like, oh, be quiet, or your parent, or whatever, so that part is pretty easy.
Speaker 2:Of course, we get like frustrated with him for other things and I have to like try and separate that, like, okay, you're a month behind in school, didn't make one forehand up, separate the issues here, but um, I, we enjoy it. Like it's actually really fun to get out there with him. Um, on the court, it wasn't so much fun with our daughters. Um, they didn't enjoy it so you can kind of see that they've gone on to other things, um.
Speaker 2:But also just navigating it in terms of like the biggest thing is we try and push is like the big picture, like this one match in this one city and wherever it is Midwest, you know it's not going to matter, did you learn something this week from it, or whatever. The big picture kind of helps. Obviously the kids are so wrapped up in winter wins and losses and that equates to either good or bad and trying to get it a little bit bigger picture. But for most part I think the journey with him has been like 90 to like 95% positive. Of course we've had some like tough moments, had a lot of injuries and had to overcome a lot, but for the most part we've always felt like as a unit.
Speaker 1:We all like work really well together, which is nice you you know, it's a weird thing to say about, uh, a kid, or he's becoming like, I don't know if he's, I guess he's. Hello, you know, friends, kids, you always think they're kids, but they're, he's like an adult. Now is it's weird to look at a kid when he's like 14 years old, um, and he's obviously older now, but like and be like that kid's a gentleman, like he's, he's actually, he like actually understands, like, like conversation, like he's a gentleman.
Speaker 2:Anyways, I, I'm, I think he's just the nicest one of the funniest stories like this is in junior tennis. Like you see it all and I think it was when he was 14 and maybe he was 15, 16, now I think 14 he was like changing sides and his like opponent started like saying shit about me, was like crazy, and he kind of was like I know, I know better than that exactly.
Speaker 2:He was like hey, what? And this kid is like saying my name and calling me like you know, like swear words. I I have no idea who the kid was like I didn't know his name, I wasn't there. So john was there. So john's like texting me. He's like I don't know what's going on. Jacker, I think, is hurt because he's like I don't know if he's crying. He's like all rattled out there. So like one of the times jagger gets a ball and he's like telling john. He's like the guy just called mom, you know like bb, and john was like wait, what? So it's like it's pretty funny, you go through these things. Like he was like so rattled from it. He was after the match. John was like you know, next time, bud, you just go over there. You know john, my husband's super feisty jaggers.
Speaker 1:John's like dude, next time that happens, just go over there and like punch the guy, and if you need any advice about that, just just listen to brian's episode again actually take someone out but you see some wild shit out there in the juniors.
Speaker 1:My goodness so two things I want to get, uh, your take on and then, and then we'll let you get out of here. So, uh, I think jagger and and and I remember hearing this name twice last year and it was from you and it was from jim courier, and there's like a little bit of you. You know people have opinions about it. This week, with a young player, darwin Blanche, got. I mean, I don't know what our expectation set is. He goes out and he plays. Rafa loses one at all. Now he's 16 years old.
Speaker 1:My opinion is that, like there are steps that you can't skip right. You need to go junior, which he's been successful in juniors, then challengers, then futures, and I kind of tend to blame a team that's guiding him. You put him in a situation where it's it's a little untenable. He's not ready to go on a run in madrid. He's not physically, he's six foot four, but kind of has that like giraffe thing where you know he's going to be a monster but he's still a little gangly like you. You have to be able to move. So it goes out there. Is that experience good? Should we be? And I understand they probably negotiated these wild cards way back when. When he turns pro. So it's tough to like say you can't have one now. The agent's kind of stuck because they promised it. But how did you feel watching it Going in? I'm excited. Then, when it's happening, I'm like I don't actually know that this is productive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Darwin is the same age as Jagger. I think he's about three months younger, so we've obviously known him for a while. Amazing kid, talk about a gentleman. He as well is super, kind, soul, great kid. Every single kid in the juniors is cheering for him. That kind of tells you how much how well liked he is. You know know, it was really funny.
Speaker 2:Last year he played kal wazoo. He played up in the 18s. He was still 15 at the time. He lost in the quarters. Um, obviously, the winner got a main draw wild card. But the usta they, they know he's something special.
Speaker 2:They offered him the us open quali wild card and it was actually announced that he was taking it. And it was his team and and I I would assume one, carlos ferreira that said no, you're not accepting a quali wild card at the us open, you're not ready. Is what the message that I got, whether that was from ron carlos or someone else on his team. They deemed, uh, darwin not ready to play the us open qualies. So he went back and he actually played the 16 and under junior davis cup for US. He went back and played like 15,000. I was surprised that in Miami he rolled up and took a main draw wildcard, because I, like you, I was like isn't there like a little bit of progression there from saying 15Ks to maybe playing qualis, like take a quali wildcard? But he played pretty well.
Speaker 2:In Miami he lost I think it was four and two, it seemed like against R Rafa. It was like just the perfect storm of being on a court like that. That big throw in a little bit of altitude, throw in like the greatest player of all time or obviously one of them, one of the three, and he just couldn't play the way we're used to seeing, so kind of threw him out into the fire. I think on a side court against someone else it would have been a lot better. You obviously can't control the draws, but it'll be interesting to see what they do now. Like, does he go? Where does he go from here? Obviously, getting a challenger win just a main tour level match win and a challenger win is the next goal. But there is a long view and insight for Darwin and I think that he's got good people around him. They'll kind of figure it out. But that just seemed like a perfect shitstorm against Rafa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a shitstorm when you're four in the world playing Rafa on clay, when he's feeling it much less 16. So, the one thing, the cautionary tale that whoever is thinking through these things and I'm sure there's a renegotiation of strategy with what tournaments he's playing and when we dip our toe in and when we do a cannonball, uh, but like the donald young of things, where he got, like he went oh and 15 in his first main draw matches, and like I think it had a significant effect on his confidence for like years, like I think he was a phenom when he was 15 and I don't think he actually was tour ready because of all these, I mean beatings that he took. You know, for if all you do is lose for two years, even if you want to qualify it with, you know, experience this, that and the other, like, as you're progressing, you have to feel like you're winning something. Sometimes, like I just feel like you have to feel like you're doing it and so so listen, ferrero's on board. It sounds like his setup is way more advanced than Donald's was, frankly, at that time. So listen, because he goes out and lays an egg against Rafa. In that scenario, I don't think anything different than I thought of him a week ago. Like this kid's a stud, he's going to be mad. I mean, you can't teach 6 foot four lefty who can create speed. You, just, you just can't.
Speaker 1:And also it's like you know, let's, let's incentivize it, let's quarter semis of a challenger and let's kind of take baby steps, because we're always so thirsty, especially on the male side, for you know, whoever that next person is, let's just take a beat.
Speaker 1:He has plenty of time. He needs to develop, uh, physically. Um, one of the things I wanted to ask you out and then, uh, we'll let you run out of here, um, cause I know you didn't even want to come on um is is talk about, uh, your gold medal. Um, obviously you had family history of, of, of, of being in the Olympics, and when I hear you talk about that, it's as full throated as Olympics. And when I hear you talk about that, it's as full throated as as I hear you, um, when you talk about, like kind of the pride felt going in, uh, you know, your, your, your family, being in the Olympics, just talk through kind of winning that gold and what it meant to you when kind of the I guess the either pressure systems or opportunity systems based on on your family's history.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean first my dad was like a huge patriot, like it was always, you know, red, white and blue and everything in our in our house, so grew up like that way. When I was eight, the Olympics were in Los Angeles, where I grew up and so went around to like all these events, which I think actually had a profound impact on me, where my parents both worked those Olympic games in the volleyball part, and I have a sister who's 16 years older and so she was like taking care of me for those two weeks where my parents were working and took me to like all these events. We went to like cycling and swimming, the opening ceremonies, like all of these great experiences. So I had like a little bit of a sense of what it was. Then in 96, back then there was only three singles players for each country. Um, there was four of us in the top 10. So it was incredibly like competitive and every so no one really knew who was going to make it. It was. It kind of came down literally to the last week. I think at that point I was the third singles player. I think I at the time I beat out Mary Jo by by just a little bit, who was my best friend, so that was like really hard. Um, she ended up getting on the team when, uh, chanda couldn't play because she had wrist surgery, um, but it was so just to make the Olympics was like like such a huge honor I was going to be, by the time the Olympics came, just 20. My family couldn't believe it. That was like everything to them. The open I would say the opening ceremonies in Atlanta were was possibly like the greatest moment for me in like my whole professional career. A lot of people go to a win, but like it was so overwhelming A hundred, I think it was 110,000 people.
Speaker 2:Obviously we waited for, like you know how often ceremonies go, it's like a flip and grind, like you wait like six or seven hours to get on the field, um, and then all of a sudden USA is the last team coming down. As we were about to walk down onto the field, for some reason, there was like a really steep ramp for everyone to get down and Billy was like, oh my goodness, like I, I don't think I can do this. So we all kind of locked arms. It was um, monica and Gigi, mary Jo and myself to like help Billy kind of get on the field and um, everybody like going crazy, obviously. And then nobody knew Muhammad Ali was going to light the torch and it was like a night. That was just like insane. You know, we're sitting there with all the other athletes. It was awesome.
Speaker 2:As the tournament went by, it was like the most fun I'd ever had and that's probably why I played so well. I think I was seated like 11 or 12, somewhere like that, and it was crazy. Just kept playing and having fun and not really thinking about anything. No big deal. There was no ranking points. It was like, oh, let's just go out and play and then we'll see what events we can go to. Um and all just kind of fell in place. Um, by the time I got to the final, my family who rarely ever came anywhere, they all kind of flew in Um my dad had was working the volleyball event, so he was there. But then my sisters came in and um, it still. It's like my the most proud I've ever been on a tennis court to be able to win the, the gold medal for our country. Um, in especially in our in the United States as well it was. It was an amazing moment uh, yep, that delivered.
Speaker 1:That's how I remember you talking about it? Um, I love it. Uh, Lindsay, I know you have to go. You're traveling today. Um, I just one more question, Are we okay?
Speaker 2:We're good.
Speaker 1:Are we good Are?
Speaker 2:we okay, we're good, we'll be up in North Carolina soon.
Speaker 1:Okay, uh, you know, I think the world of you. Uh, say hi to the family. Um, you're the best. Thanks for coming on Anytime. Cheers. Thanks, lindsay, you're the best. Thanks for coming on anytime. Cheers, thanks, lindsey. That's all we got for you. I'm andy roddick. Thanks for listening. Uh subscribe, uh apple spotify all the places you get your podcast watch on t2 and uh check out our, uh, our youtube channel as well. We'll see you next week.