Andy Roddick jumps into the Racket Rundown presented by.... with Iga Swiatek’s win over Aryna Sabalenka and Andrey Rublev’s win over Félix Auger-Aliassime. Jon Wertheim joins the show to react to some of the latest injuries and to go through his recent mailbag questions. Lastly, Dr. Joshua Dines joins the show to talk injuries in tennis, where they come from, and how they can be prevented.
Served is sponsored by Olipop! Check out the link below and use the code: SERVED20 to get 20% off your order:
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Andy Roddick jumps into the Racket Rundown presented by.... with Iga Swiatek’s win over Aryna Sabalenka and Andrey Rublev’s win over Félix Auger-Aliassime. Jon Wertheim joins the show to react to some of the latest injuries and to go through his recent mailbag questions. Lastly, Dr. Joshua Dines joins the show to talk injuries in tennis, where they come from, and how they can be prevented.
Served is sponsored by Olipop! Check out the link below and use the code: SERVED20 to get 20% off your order:
Keep up with us on socials!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/servedpodcast/
X: https://twitter.com/Served_Podcast
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@served_podcast?_t=8jZtCnzdAnX&_r=1
Watch the Episodes on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0k_--YLuTNuDvq1Dw4zHmw
Welcome to another week of the Serve podcast. I'm Andy Roddick here with producer Mike and techie Sean Social. Sophie says she just needs if you could just respect her privacy during this time after her Challengers movie review and the vitriol that she received on online and by vitriol I mean like one lady named Vicky was was pissed. Uh, so I had a. I had a weird morning, mike. I had a weird morning this morning. Um, we'll get to that in a second. Uh, we have a great show for you. Uh, as always I can't say say as always, because he took the week off like a lazy person last week, but John Wertheim will be with us this week. Dr Josh Dines, who is like a walking orthopedic resume Team doctor, rangers Mets, us Davis Cup team, la Dodgers, so on and so forth. Co-founder of Vufi, a healthcare company. He will be with us later. And great timing for Josh Dines to come on because injuries, injuries, injuries.
Speaker 1:Outside of the women's draw, which largely carried the Madrid tournament, the talk is about who's not playing and who could potentially not be in the draw. Uh, at Roland Garros. So um mentioned that my morning was weird and we come in on Mondays and we release on Tuesday morning. Uh for pod YouTube, anything that uh wasn't in our t2 show, uh like this. Uh for Sunday nights we come in and do on Monday, but uh, so, uh. So I'm going to kind of do a general PSA right now. Uh might be kind of boring for some of you, um, but I think it needs to be said. So I spent all morning.
Speaker 1:I've dealt with kind of various types of of skin cancer since since I stopped playing, uh had a uh squamous cell, uh tumor taken out of my lip. Uh, probably like five or six years ago. Haven't ever talked about it. This morning we went into this face laser fucking thing. That's why, for those of you watching on YouTube, it looks like I got in a fight. It stinks. I think I'm going to be a general kind of like hatchet job for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:Won't go into the woe is me part of it, because nothing is wrong, everything is good. But use sunscreen, put sunscreen on your kids, especially if they are tennis players. You know the problem won't present itself when the kid is eight, but it might present itself when that kid is grown and is 38. Uh, so all good, all ahead of the game. But for those on YouTube. You can look at my forehead. It looks like I got in a fight from the skin treatments that I got today. Uh, but greener pastures ahead. And uh, I've made it a habit to get checked time after time after time and uh, knock on wood, we are. We are all good right now. That rhymed. I was like Dr Seuss of like cancer, psa announcements. All right On to something bigger, mike Hayden. This is like you all know what happens on the Tuesday audio release it's the racket rundown. We love the racket audio release. It's the Racket Rundown. We love the Racket Rundown. But this week's a little different, mike. Why so? This is the Racket Rundown brought to you by Wilson.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, we got him.
Speaker 1:We did it, we did it, we did it. Racket Rundown brought to you by Wilson. Oh boy, we got him. We did it, we did it, we did it. Racket rundown brought to you by Wilson. Uh, frankly, like Wilson's probably too good for us. They've been around a very long time. Our very established have been in the hands of the best players that our game has ever seen, but yet they want to partner with this little podcast and we are here for it. I'll take it. Mike Hayden, we will take it. We will take it. Sean is beside himself. You can't see him, but he is absolutely beside himself. If you see a shadow in the back of Mike Hayden doing somersaults, that's, that's techie, sean. Uh, we'll get more to that story. How it came to be. I sent, uh, what I thought was a pretty innocent tweet, uh, basically saying what racket should I try? Um, created a bit of a thing and here we are and for the next couple of years at least, this racket rundown will be brought to you by wilson. Wilson, I'm definitely going to do it. One week where I'm like racket run to you rundown, brought to you by Wilson, I'm definitely going to do it. One week where I'm like racket run to you, rundown brought to you by Wilson. Anyway, cast away fans, let's get to Madrid and then we'll get back to the Wilson of things and what my role will be going forward with them. It won't just be racket rundown, although that is a huge part of it. I will be on their team doing some work for them as well.
Speaker 1:Madrid was it was kind of a weird tournament. Mike like won the women's draw, the Sabalenka-Šviatek rivalry and the way that it presents on court, uh, differing styles, uh, both kind of power baseliners, but they do it in a very different way. One is kind of blunt force, trauma uh, of Sabalenka, and the other one is movement and ball trajectory and speed and RPMs, uh, with Egas Fiontek and they both kind of go line and take chances at different points in the rally. But the way that their styles match up just creates a phenomenal amount of drama, especially on clay. I like this matchup on clay. They had a classic last year in the Madrid final that Sabalenko was able to sneak through. Sviantek turned the tides and it's weird to say that she won a clay court tournament for the first time, but that is what she did, denied Sabalenko her third Madrid final.
Speaker 1:But I love this match for so many reasons. Obviously, I think as tennis fans, we tend to say that any match that is close in score oh, that was a great match. No, it was an entertaining match. Right. There's a difference between a great match that's close and an entertaining match. There can be a match that is straight sets that is phenomenal, right? I think of the Pete Andre one at night session, which was a bunch of tiebreakers four tiebreakers didn't go five sets, but it was one of the highest level matches I'd seen. To that point in my life.
Speaker 1:This match was a high level start to finish, and I think unforced errors can be sometimes dependent on the players. Players can be the biggest stat that lies to us the most often, because it makes it sound as if you know, like when us chuckers are are playing at the local club and we miss a ball like off of a feed. That's an unforced error because we suck. It's not as if we're thinking something differently. It's not as if we're thinking something differently. It's not as if we're forced into a decision that has to be made about that said ball. We just stink and we missed a shot.
Speaker 1:The unforced errors that were happening and there weren't like a ton of it's not as if they were lighting up the stat sheet, but the unforced errors that were happening in the Sviantek-Sabolenka match were forced, forced errors, even if they were misses, because of the respect they had for who was on the other side of the ball. For instance, sviatek can't leave that forehand hanging in the middle of the court. She can't have that comfortable ball just to feed middle because Sabalenka was absolutely pounding at any time. Absolutely pounding at any time. So if Sviantek goes line or pulls that one or tries to go firmer through the middle as a byproduct of what Sabalenka does, when there's hanging Chad in the middle of the court, I have a hard time saying that's an unforced error. That shot may have been missed. That's an error. It's not an unforced error.
Speaker 1:Sabalenka is forcing that decision, therefore forcing that error. I don't know how you account for it. Uh, it's not the easiest thing. It's one person deciding what's an error and what's not. What's an unforced error? What's not a first server turn missed isn't an unforced error? Uh, I don't think. If you're getting pounded through the corner and barely get around, you know it's just. It's up to you, know, a personal decision.
Speaker 1:But unforced errors doesn't always tell the full story. Conversely, sabalenka knows when she's extended against Sviatek, so Sviatek gets her outside of that middle, that Sviatica is so good at sliding positioning and then turning those so quickly to where it's going to be a winner. On the other side, sabalenka going for broke low risk shot, but maybe the safest way to potentially give yourself a shot at winning the point, not dumb tennis at. So I was watching this, just fascinated by the chess match that was going on. There was not one shot that wasn't dictated by respect for the other person, and that's what you want in a matchup that is one versus two.
Speaker 1:And now it's weird when we're kind of in the upswing of legends, careers, right. So sabalenka now is someone who has won two slams, has been number one in the world, has won a bunch of masters 1000s. She's a hall of famer already. She just is. My dumb ass is in. She's in like simply sphiotik. Four majors, nine Masters, 1000 titles already, 20 total titles. You could chop her resume into a third and I think she would still have it. However, 100 some odd weeks at number one.
Speaker 1:Since Ash Barty retired and kind of handed the number one ranking over to her, sviantek is on her way to becoming one of the best players of all time. Now the women's side of the game has some separation between, you know, martina, chrissy, serena, and then it's kind of like the rest as far as, like singles titles go, uh, steffi, sorry gosh, steffi Graf is is arguably, I mean she's, she's right there, I mean she's unbelievable, um, maybe the most dominant player I've seen day in and day out. Sorry gosh, steffi Graf is arguably, I mean she's right there, I mean she's unbelievable, maybe the most dominant player I've seen day in and day out in my entire life. But those four are kind of separated from everyone else. But, like you're telling me, sviantek's not, I mean, she's one slam away from like Sharapova, justine Hena, she's three slams away from Venus and she's 22. And three slams away from Venus and she's 22. And it's not as if, like, we can say, oh, she's going to stop soon, she's 22.
Speaker 1:And I was talking about, we were talking about like, different forms of talent. We were having this conversation on TC live the other night with I was on with Weissman and Chanda Rubin, and it's like talent. Okay, you see someone hit an unbelievable forehand on the run, or you see their speed, or you see the way they can jump or the speed they can create on a serve and you're like, okay, that's talent. And Shviatek's talent is in, obviously, the way she can move. But she's really good at a lot of things. Right, serve is okay. The rest of her game is like, every part of it's really good the serve, the forehand is really good, the movement is really good, the footwork is amongst the best I've ever seen. Maybe this side of Steffi Graf, navratilova, chrissy, she's in that conversation as far as just footwork, right. But the thing she's most talented at has hasn't been discussed, at least not given the credit that it should be.
Speaker 1:There is a talent in the ability to be and stay disciplined and that is her superpower. She was talking about it after she won this match. She goes at a certain point. First round, second round, whatever tournament is, I just want that result. I want to play good tennis and get that result, Get caught up in it. She said there's no difference between the French Open and here I'm going. Yeah, that's someone that's won a bunch of majors who can say that, because there's a difference. But I think her point was basically I try to do the same things and discipline every day. In practice, the goal's the same. I win here in Madrid. My first round in Rome next week, I'm going to try to execute my game plan. I'm going to compete, point in and point out.
Speaker 1:Her idol is Rafa Nadal and she has that mentality where it's like head down, next point, next point, next point. That is talent To be able to do that, to be self-aware enough to go in, even in, even on your bad days, and get to the next point. And she has this nervous energy. She doesn't look like calm, cool and collected all times. It's almost a little skittish sometimes, but like the talent of her discipline from where I said it's, it's, it's unmatched, um, uh, on the women's side for sure, uh, but it's, uh, it's, it's pretty impressive. And I don't think that side of talent gets talked about enough, because that is a huge separation tool between the English Fiontex, who's on her way to becoming one of the best ever, and other players.
Speaker 1:Props to Irina Sabalenka. Obviously, this has to be one of the weirdest years of of her entire life. Right, you win, you win in Australia. Uh, you know, reality of life comes for you, um, over the next couple of months. You kind of don't get the matches You're. It seems like tennis is a footnote um to personal stuff that's going on.
Speaker 1:And to come back in Madrid play a bunch of three setters only one match, against Mira Andreeva in the quarterfinals, where she won one and four wasn't a three setter. Body responded, fitness responded, she lost that match. But there was nothing between them Iga and Sabalenka that day there. There was nothing between them. She had match points. Iga hit a couple good shots that she had missed 10 seconds earlier. So I at some point it's just execution, it's the way the chips fall. Uh, sabalenka look great just instantly. Uh reinserted herself, uh into the conversation and no one ever said she wasn't a top player. But just as far as current form dictates, going into Rome and Roland Garros, she's completely reinserted herself into that conversation and we're better for it.
Speaker 1:I like their rivalry. They're completely different personalities. One's shyer, one's completely outgoing. One just bludges the ball, one does it in a different way. I love this rivalry, I think it's great. And oh, by the way, rabakina was dominating Sabalenka in the semis until Sabalenka turned it and Rabakina blinked and you know she got a little nervous. Sviantek was on a roll start to finish. I think Haddad Maya was the only person to take a set off of her until the final. But the TC Live shows that we go on right after a great match are my favorite shows. They're the easiest shows to do. You come on and you are a fan. You're just an absolute fan. And what those women did? They carried the tournament. You know, once Rafa went down, they carried the tournament and so they deserve their props. And also they played three hours and some odd. You know, however, however many minutes.
Speaker 1:It was 3, 10 or 3, 15, something like that yeah, three hours 12 minutes okay in a week full of injuries and in a men's final where one of their participants was was cramping two hours in. Can we talk about their fitness a little more, please? Can we talk about the fact that Sabalenka and Sviantek, in that grueling final on clay it? We didn't talk once about they look tired? Is something wrong? Not a single time we got to get props. Fitness is one of those things where you don't get credit for it unless you've either done it well for 10 years or you're struggling.
Speaker 2:And then it gets talked about. That was the most time Sabalinkas spent on court in a single tournament, like 13 hours, 51 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she looked great at the end of the final. She looked strong, she looked strong. Tournament like 13 hours, 51 minutes, yeah, and she looked great at the end of the final. She looked strong, she looked strong. Um, gotta give props uh to fitness, uh piece there, um, but that final was just, it was uh, it was a 10 out of 10.
Speaker 1:And as you're looking at the women's tour, kind of projecting forward or at least giving a report card and then projecting forward, I think um, you know I don't like saying this, cause my fandom of Coco is is uh knows no bounds. Uh, I think she's an amazing athlete. I think she's an amazing person. Sviatek, sabalenka, rabakina have separated so far this year. Uh, coco is still. I think she's finding a second serve away from reinserting herself into that conversation. Uh, from where I said, the toss looks a little little too forward on the, on the, on the uh on the second serve. When it is forward, you have to reach for it. Your body kind of folds forward, um, and then you're having to do a lot of uh trickery with your racket to uh adjust and and and adjust and find the right kind of trajectory for it. I think that toss comes back, it's a little bit more over the head. It's tough to fold when the ball's right above you, simply, and it's probably a lot more that goes into it. But I do think she will find it. She will be a dominant server and I also think she is at a career high weirdly this week, 52-week ranking. So we do have to give props for what was done last summer because that's largely reflected in her being the number two player in the world this week, largely deserved. I just think there are three people that are consistently playing better so far this year. I don't think that should be controversial. The men's side was like a dumpster fire and that might be offensive to dumpster fires Like the Rafa story was phenomenal. Um, we talk about that a little bit more in depth, uh, later in the show.
Speaker 1:But man, these injuries and like the calendar and the way it's laid out is just doing no favors for the players. It's, it's short sighted. Yeah, we want all the players have to play these things and we get them for 12 days and we're going to add five weeks of the year because of you know the longer format and we'll combine every event and like, okay, but there's no where's. Where do they build up their bodies? Where can we take a play off if we're trying to be number one in the world? Build up their bodies. Where can we take a playoff if we're trying to be number one in the world?
Speaker 1:I'm looking at the schedule. Like Madrid and Rome used to take up two weeks, you could take some time. You could miss one tournament that was a thousand in Monte Carlo and you could basically buy a month to train. That's gone. That doesn't exist. We'll get into that a little bit more with John Wertheim later and our friend Dr Joss Dines, who you know sees the other side when it's pushed too hard and has to fix it as kind of the star orthopedic surgeon of earth. But it's just. You got to create some space. You have to. You can't ask people, to put it, to do an extreme thing with their body without preparing to do the extreme thing with their bodies.
Speaker 1:Sinner this week got hurt. He aggravated his hip doing full gym workouts during Madrid because there's no other time for him to do it. And the guy wants to be number one in the world. To be number one in the world if you're not Federer and Novak, you have to play tournaments, you have to run up the scoreboard volume, math and results. That's how you do it. Not everyone is Novak and can win three out of four grand slams in a year to be ranked number one. That's not like a realistic thing, especially when you're trying to get there for the first time. You have to hustle Even Roger, even Novak, even Rafa played a shitload of events to get to number one in the world. Sinner has to play these Masters 1000s. Alcaraz has to play these Masters 1000s. Less significant for Alcaraz, because once you've been there, you've been there forever. Right, you're always a former number one or a number one.
Speaker 1:The. The fact that your center feels the need to do full gym workouts, um, during a tournament, to the point of intensity where you're hurting your hip, um, it's just tough and but it sucks, because I know they have to do it Like you have to. You have to do the work. But also there's a fine line that you have to play matches and you probably shouldn't be doing both in the same week. There's a lot of stress that goes along with both of those. So I don't know. I don't think recent results in Madrid are doing much for, um, this longer format. You know where they're not outliers like a Miami or an Indian Wells. Um, I will say props to Rublev, right? So Rublev wins Madrid for a second masters 1000 tournament. Uh, had lost four matches in a row going into this event, like was since Dubai, when he kind of had that meltdown you know.
Speaker 1:Miami, indian Wells, monte Carlo, all gone quick, done, first round. Um props him for steadying the ship. He wasn't feeling great this week. He shared that he was sick this week, but just props I'm not sure what else you say. He went out and beat Alcaraz, even if Alcaraz is compromised. Alcaraz won his matches, he looked fine through the first couple of things and obviously he's going to pull out of Rome. Alcaraz won his matches, he looked fine through the first couple things and obviously he's going to pull out of Rome.
Speaker 1:But I just have a lot of respect for Rublev. He's always there and I think the fact that he emotes and gets pissed and seems like a bit of a wild card, I actually think that does a disservice to how consistent he's been over the last five or six years. Yes, he's not Novak, he's not Alcaraz. He in over the last five or six years. Yes, he's not novak, he's not alcaraz, he's not center. So don't say, well, yeah, he's consistent, but what about these guys? Okay, save it. The guy is hasn't left the top 10 for a long time. He wins a lot of tournaments. What was the stat you sent me, mike? It was like outside of. Just get it to me when you can, but it's out. You know, since 2020, he's won as many titles as anyone not named novak yeah, is that it simply?
Speaker 2:yeah, he is only novak's.
Speaker 1:Won more with 21 yeah, and a little deceiving because alcaraz didn't even really start tour full-time until spring of 21, so that I leave it where it may. But like it does prove that the guy is always there, always competitive, always top four to eight ish qualifiers for world tour finals every year. Um does need to break through at a slam. You know the, the, the and the conversation after his accomplishments will have a yeah. But until he kind of breaks through that ceiling, which I fully think he will. And like you're looking at the draw, like you don't know if Alcaraz is going to be good at Roland Garros, you don't know if Rafa is going to be good at Roland Garros, monte Carlo lost to Rude. You don't know if Sinner's going to be there I'm really concerned about him and we'll get to his update in the close after we talk to Josh Dines. But Medvedev might not be in the conversation. The hot hands, lehechka might not be in the conversation. So if you're Rublev, you're going okay. Well, I'm at least healthy, I'm at least battle-tested. So maybe this is the one where he can insert himself into the final weekend of a Grand S you can't tell if he's having the worst day ever on the court or if he's routing someone.
Speaker 1:He is just that consistent attitude demeanor. The way that he reacts to things that are out of his control. Has had a rough last couple of years on court, off court, with injuries left knee gave him problems, went from six in the world this time two years ago to 35, going into Madrid, back him into the top 20, had a walkover in two retirements. He had some good I mean not good luck, you don't want to say luck is like other people getting hurt. But didn't have to do as much as anyone else in the history of the game to make a final of a Masters 1000. Did beat Kasper Ruud on a clay court, so it wasn't all free and easy. Uh, had a hell of a run. Uh, in the final little concerned.
Speaker 1:I don't know how you cramp indoors two hours into a match. Um, in Madrid roof was closed. Um, it was, you know, 50, 60 degrees all week. I maybe got a little warmer because when you close the roof, you know 50, 60 degrees all week. I maybe got a little warmer because when you close the roof, body heat and everything else makes it a little bit more humid. Um, I I've said it before in this podcast I've never in my life cramped during practice, like not a single time. After practice you're laying in bed, your toes cramp, but like everyone does that, they go. People go for a long walk at that at night.
Speaker 1:Um, nerves are a big thing, right. I think that moment, the opportunity, you know kind of the the mental weight of the week, will I be here again? Uh, I think those manifested in a body reaction, um, I'll probably be wrong. I'm sure they'll announce something and all of you Twitter finger people will go and do your Twitter finger things. Um, twitter finger people will go and do your Twitter finger things. Um, but I love FAA, but I two things can be true. I love FAA and he was, he was fortunate, uh, to get to the finals this week. You know not to say he wouldn't have otherwise, but he hasn't otherwise. And you know, not, playing center is easier than than playing center. I'm trying to think if that's controversial, I think it's not like Emma Navarro thing, right?
Speaker 2:No, it's a pretty accurate statement. Not playing center is definitely easier than playing center.
Speaker 1:So I think I'm covered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're good.
Speaker 1:Okay, producer, mike insurance policy.
Speaker 2:That's what we're selling next. I'll just get roasted in the comments anyways.
Speaker 1:You're so sensitive. I love it how sensitive you and social Sophie are.
Speaker 2:They said a mean thing I'm like I'm not sensitive. Well bring it, you brought it.
Speaker 1:Oh God, do it, do it yes, oh God yes.
Speaker 2:Instant regret.
Speaker 1:Uh, okay, so those are my thoughts on the finals, uh, of Madrid. I think it was a good tournament. Uh, I think it was a great women's final. I think the uh, the men's draw minus minus Rafa, rafa's kind of appreciation tour, which was amazing, um, was a bit of a dud, you know we were. It was more time spent on who wasn't there, who was compromised, and a lot of them were mid match to. Like Medvedev, you saw movement and he tried to get through it. So we're, you know it was more time spent on who wasn't there, who was compromised, and a lot of them were mid-match too. Like Medvedev, you saw movement and he tried to get through it. So we're. You know. However, many times this week we're watching 30 or 40 minutes of knowing someone's not going to finish a match. Lehetschka, the same thing against FAA, Unfortunate.
Speaker 1:Taylor Fritz had a really good week. He called himself Claylor. Claylor Fritz, which I thought was pretty funny. Uh, sneaky, has made two semifinals and masters one thousands on clay the last two years Monte Carlo last year and, uh, madrid this year. So I thought, I thought he played. He had a really good week, a lot to look forward to, and I like how he commits to actually just going over and doing all of the clay gets their. Monte Carlo, found some form in Munich, made the final, uh, earned his semifinal in Madrid. I thought he looked really good and I have a lot of respect for the way that he goes about it. You know, some people can just we talk about other talents, like the talent of being able to take the road, like stay on the road is its own sort of like skill and I think he does it as well as anyone on tour.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I send this tweet out months ago, basically saying like I don't really know much about rackets now. Um, I haven't played much tennis. I've started playing a ton more, uh, recently. But basically, like, what are the rackets? All of these rackets have new names which I haven't been paying attention to. Um, and, like you, like you all listening, it's like, oh, my friend's using this one. I'm like, well, let me hit a couple of balls with that. And then my other friend's using a different stick. I'm like, oh, let me, okay, let me, let me use that for today's dingles game. Uh, unlike you, I wrote a tweet and racket companies actually reached out and said, hey, send us what you're currently using and you know, let's, let's, let's see at least what you're. You know, maybe we have a racket that you might like, uh. So I went through that whole uh process, which was which was really fun. I hadn't I haven't tried new rackets in in a uh, in a very long time.
Speaker 1:Um, and so start the conversation with Wilson. It grows and grows and grows. I am motivated to try their stuff, the equipment. I'm excited about it, I'm kind of nerding out about it. Emails back and forth, questions about what would you like here, what do you like there, what are you looking for? And they say, oh well, this racket is great here here, uh. And so I'm kind of, uh, I'm excited because, on top of them sponsoring racket rundown uh, nice one, mike, way to really be on it Um, on top of them sponsoring a racket rundown, I am going to be involved in the development side, uh, for Wilson.
Speaker 1:So meaning that I can give my feedback based on new racket technologies for all of you hackers listening, and also for pro players, cause, honestly, right now I'm somewhere in between the two of you. Right, I think I can understand both sides. I need more power given to me than I had when I was young and powerful, but I also need the racket to respond a certain way because I think I still have a skill set that a lot of club players don't. So I think I can relate to both sides. I hope that I can add value to Wilson on the racket development side and I am excited to start. And so why was it Wilson? Just because I thought they had the highest quality product and the most differentiated product from this kind of trial by fire thing that I've been doing for the last couple of months. On top of that, it was a bonus that they love the podcast and they listen, and they might be the only people who get what we're doing, mike.
Speaker 1:Maybe, I don't know. We have some listeners too, which we appreciate. But racket rundown will be brought to you by Wilson. I'll keep you up to date on where I land. I think I'm down to the final two rackets that I like and that I haven't chosen yet. So once I choose those and finish my racket journey I will tell you. But it's ongoing. I'll be getting different frames throughout the year to play test for them, giving my feedback and uh, you'll get to hear, uh, their name weekly when we, when we say the racket rundown presented by wilson all right, coming up on the other side, a conversation with our guy, john Wertheim.
Speaker 1:With us, as always, john Wertheim. John, you had a week off of the pod last week. What the hell did you do with all your time? You're traveling somewhere. I see a hotel room. Your wall in that hotel room looks like a Louis Vuitton bag. That looks expensive.
Speaker 3:You like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fancy.
Speaker 3:I mean Copenhagen, denmarkmark, and if they didn't have a good hotel decor here, they'll have it nowhere. Um, I had to take a week off so, uh, lindsey, could spew profanities your way that was a great interview.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed that um, but I'm in uh, I'm in lovely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, have you been here? You've been to denmark, you've never been to den no.
Speaker 3:Oh man, it's A. It's just fantastic. Weather's great. It's riotously expensive, which is a little unfortunate, but it's a very successful country. Safety net. It's also a huge tennis country. Every conversation everyone I've met oh tennis, I love tennis. Sometimes people say I love tennis and the next line is, like you know, roger's so elegant. This is like Yuri Laheshka is really hitting over his backhand. Has he changed his grip at all? I mean, these are hardcore tennis fans. This is a country of six million. They have a former number one player in Carolina and a borderline top tenner in Holger Rude. They're very conflicted about Holger Rude. They love that. He's this ascending talent, but his demeanor is decidedly not Danish. But great country, great tennis country. Put this one on your list, buddy.
Speaker 1:And do you think this is the Wozniacki effect, or were these people all huge Kenneth Carlson fans as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it goes way back. Wait, what did your buddy went. A little digression here.
Speaker 2:Yes, lars.
Speaker 3:Ulrich, Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich, right His father, Torben Ulrich, Great guy, Danish player Brad Gilbert and I got to know him. He passed away a few months ago, unfortunately. He was a great player. He also was this real eccentric who apparently he once missed a match because he found a turtle that he liked and he couldn't tear himself away from the turtle outside the locker room.
Speaker 1:That can't be a real story. That story gets better with age.
Speaker 3:Listen to this one. This is the best story. He plays Wimbledon and in the middle of the match he goes to his opponent and starts giving him a back rub. The opponent turns around what the hell are you doing? And he says you know, I could see the stress across the net. I did not want to play an opponent who was feeling so much stress, so he gave his opponent a mid-match back rub. This was a real eccentric, great Danish tennis player. But you know, I mean he passed away recently. I think you know he was probably in his early 90s. So this is a tennis legacy that goes way back. A lot of indoor tennis and you know, I mean Carolyn obviously helps. She's much more quintessentially Danish than Olga Runa. But yeah, everyone I've talked to here are you following Madrid? I mean, these guys are hardcore tennis fans. Someone should put an event in this lovely country of six million people.
Speaker 1:Do you know if Torben Ulrich was winning that match when he gave the guy a back rub?
Speaker 3:I got to look that one up because I actually have the name of the opponent written somewhere. I'm curious if that was a pivotal point in the match. Is he absolutely tuning the guy love and love, or is this a close match and he gave up a little mental gamesmanship there? But no, torben Ulrich, one of the all-time great tennis characters. He was a poet, he was an artist. You ever see man, I can't believe it some kind of monster. The Metallica documentary.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:He steals that movie. I mean, all these record company execs are like, oh my God, this is super amazing. You guys are incredible. And Torben Ulrich listens to the album and says, basically, boys, are you sure you want to be putting this art into the world? Are you sure this is the best representation of your band? I don't know how we're talking about Metallica on a tennis podcast, but Torben Ulrich, great tennis character.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go out on a limb and say Metallica is going to be big one day. I think they got it right. As you're telling the story about the back route, I'm trying to decide whether I'd be more pissed about my opponent giving me a back route if I was losing or if I was winning, and I can't make up my mind. It's like if you're winning you're like this guy's just throwing me off. This is some weird stuff. You're losing. It's like it's pretty condescending. I think, um, I'm sure all with the best of intentions, but I can honestly say that, uh, I probably would not have reacted very well, uh, to that Um and awkward transition. Uh, people who are not reacting well to the physicality of this tennis calendar. It feels like we're dropping like flies in Madrid. You know, you look at, it's funny. You're seeing kind of these young players that are now having to grasp at the reality of not being able to do it all the time and, I think, to the credit of probably more so Roger and Novak, and maybe a little bit less so Rafa later on in their careers knowing when to put their foot on the gas. As far as scheduling but also scheduling isn't just tournaments, you have to schedule breaks and you have to schedule training blocks. That is how you avoid injuries. Stay strong, something's got to give. You can't just play or practice tennis 40 weeks a year.
Speaker 1:And also, you know Sinner hurt his hip. You know, in the gym this week, like when you're playing matches in two out of three set matches like you should be doing nothing that can actually cause a hip injury. The rumor is and take it for what it's worth, cause I don't have an inside track on this at all I'll tell you when I do and I'll certainly tell you when I don't. Uh, it was like a heavy, like lifting thing where it's like okay, the times have changed where that's happening. Um, but like, okay, the times have changed where that's happening.
Speaker 1:But like, what's your take on this? I mean, we have Carlos with his arm and now he's out of Rome, sinner pulling out of, you know, a tournament. You know he's a fair bit in and also ended Monte Carlo with a bit of a cramp or leg injury. I wonder if it's a hip set. We never got full clarity on that. If I had a hip injury and it caused me, I would probably just say I was cramping too, because I wouldn't want any follow-up questions, and then Medvedev, who never really complains about physical ailments. I hope it's a spasm, but it's a hip injury as well. It's a bit of an issue, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, remember when these two-week events, one of the great selling points was the players weren't going to have to play back-to-back days and they were going to have an extra day of rest. And I don't think anyone likes these two-week non-majors, but it's a little bit concerning when these injuries are happening in an event that's been spread out in part. One of the rationales anyway was part from extra sessions, which benefits the other side of the rationales anyway was apart from extra sessions, which benefits the other side of the table. One of the great selling points here was that we were going to have these extra days and days off and uh, yeah, you're. You're wondering. Novak may have figured this out by uh, but by laying low.
Speaker 3:I want to go back to what you said before. I mean, I think we should talk at some point about the variety of entries, which is a little weird too. Um, you know you mentioned three of the top. You know three of the top five guys and they've got three very different entries. But what you said about recognizing that you are not invincible here, I remember when I, early in my tennis playing days, a player once said I used to go out and hit forehand serves and eat Cheetos and now I've got to really deal with this shit. That was. That player was Andy Roddick.
Speaker 3:I very much recall you going through this and sort of reaching this. There's this realization point where, look my body's something that I've got to tend to, and when I'm got a live arm and I'm 18, 19 years old, life's great, but that doesn't last forever. What is that like when suddenly your body, your whole career, is predicated on this thing right, and suddenly it's starting to uh, mount a bit of an insurrection and you've got to realize that staying healthy is part of the gig here. What is that like as a player that transition?
Speaker 1:It's a tough balance. Especially, I was someone who needed matches Like I needed. I couldn't just show up at a slam and play. Well, you know, I just couldn't do it. It's not the way. I'm not a ball striker, I'm not a natural hitter of the ball, you know, I, I, I just couldn't do it. Um, it's not the way. I'm not a ball striker, I'm not a natural hitter of the ball. Um, you know, I could, I could, I could throw heat and then generally just tried to figure out a way to be effective after that, um, but I had two years, um, so, oh, one kind of breakout play as much as you can.
Speaker 1:Every tour event that you get into. You start that year on a wildcard program which is just basically an entitlement. So I took as many as I could whenever I could. Kind of finished that year 14 in the world. The next year finished 10 in the world, and then 03-04, I won over 70 matches both years and I think I won 10 times. Know, 10 times those years.
Speaker 1:And you're playing deep in majors more often than not and at some point it becomes a little bit untenable. I played a little bit less in 05, won five times, you know, so it's. But also when you're competing for number one, like these guys are. Later on in my career, when it was very, very clear to all involved that I was not one of the guys competing for the year at number one spot, it was almost a little bit easier because I had been, you know, won a slam, and so for me whether I was ranked five or seven made exactly zero difference to me, like I didn't, it was fine, I just wanted to be seated in a certain slot for majors, right, and that's kind of where where my mind went. And so later on in my career I was very, you know, unapologetic about I'm going to work as hard as I can.
Speaker 1:In November I pulled out of world tour finals sometimes, you know, to, to, to maintain health, and that's easier to do when you're five and not two competing for the year end number one spot, right, um. But then I would go hard January through March. I would bake in a month to go home, reset train, get stronger. And then I was like, okay, that's going to get me through, you know, whatever I play on clay and the run through Wimbledon, um, and I kind of had to accept that there had to be pockets especially. I was kind of a big body, physical guy, um, you know. So I had to make sure the engine was running, but the trade-off was like you had. I kind of was insecure, like I'm like I could be putting up some points and I'm taking the zero, but you kind of had to play mental gymnastics that this was how you raised the ceiling a little bit, but it didn't fit my personality, I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 3:So let me ask you this how much of this is? Hey, listen, man, we're not baking biscuits here. This is tennis, it's physical, it's sports. Every sport has an injury report. Will Damian Lillard play? No, he's hurt. I mean, injuries are part of sports. That's one extreme, and the other extreme is we've got a real problem here when we are barely four months into the season and top players are not only pulling out but doing it with a variety of injuries. How much is this? Hey, listen man, it's sports. This is part of the gig. Variety of injuries. How much is this? Hey, listen man, it's sports. This is part of the gig. It's bodies, it's physical. And how much of this is tennis? Really needs to address the fact that three of the top five guys, after 120 days, are nursing some pretty serious injuries here.
Speaker 1:Well, here's the thing. So you can, you can sell something however you want. Okay. So, this thing with, like, we're going to have days off, you know, at these masters, 1000 events, like, days off in between, that's the right, okay so. But the trade-off, if you add those up and all of a sudden we have, you know, five, six, seven, eight of these a year, that that's that many more weeks that are taken, right. So I personally, and I, you know, played well in the summer series where I, you know, won back-to-back, montreal, cincinnati did final semis to where you're playing 12 matches in 14 days and you're playing a lot of back-to-backs, okay. But the trade-off is, all of a sudden, if you're not making those two-week events, those weeks are spent at home, resting and training, as opposed to on site at a gym. That's not yours, you know that. You're, you're in, you're in. You're still spending nights, uh, with your head on a foreign pillow, right. So it just.
Speaker 1:I sure there's more days off in between, but how many top players can't play two out of three sets days in a row like we? That's what we're. We should be able to do that, and I'm not speaking of a place of projection. I had to do that and I did it. And it's hard, yeah, but sports is hard. I would trade off. I would trade off a day off in madrid for a day off training block at home and think that that is more beneficial to players' health.
Speaker 1:No question, luckily I mean not luckily, but fortunately for the content of this episode, not a reflection on people getting hurt. Obviously we don't want people to get hurt. Josh Dines, who was our Davis Cup doctor his father was our Davis Cup doctor. He's been the doctor for the Mets, the Rangers co-founder of a healthcare company called Vufi, one of the top orthopedic surgeons on earth is actually coming on as the guest this week. We're going to lead into to him on TT, so you will see him coming up, but I'm curious to hear his take on load time off versus uh.
Speaker 1:Hopefully we can get a better take on all of these answers, but as I'm looking through this, I think the number one chronic injury for tennis players, and especially in the afterlife, right. So like you retire, you wait 15, 20 years. Hips sinners got a hip. Medvedev's got a hip. Agassi has bad hips. Jimmy Connors has full metal hips, like to the point where it was humorous when he tried to go through metal detectors at airports when we were traveling together Guga Quirton hips, magnus Norman hips, boris Becker hips and it's not something you really hear about because they're gone. It's not something you see, bob Bryan hip.
Speaker 3:Andy Murray. Yeah, there's a British guy who's got.
Speaker 1:they did a whole documentary on the resurfacing of his hips doc dines will, I'm sure, have a more enlightened stance on the how and the why, but I I feel pretty plainly that, like two-week events don't provide more rest because it's the wrong kind of rest. It's. It's a, it's a bullshit day in the middle of a tournament. You can win two and two. You don't need a rest day, right like you, just don't. We've done it forever. I'd rather have those stacked at home, being diligent, being on a. So yann Sinner doesn't have to do gym work during Madrid because he has that time to actually build at home. Now, me saying it's the wrong call for Sinner to do their response could well be when the hell else are we supposed to do it? Like, where are the pockets to actually do this foundational work? You know, as we turn back the clock.
Speaker 3:Does this feel like it's getting worse or are we just paying more attention to it? Now I tried to scrape data on this and it's really hard because you're not sure who's playing through pain and who's pulling out, and the data is really pretty dirty. But just, I mean anecdotally, I mean, just go through the names, you talk to the players, you see players after matches. I think you're right. It's almost like these tournaments wanted to sell extra sessions and extra media time, and one of the things they did to appease the players was mentioned rest. But it's really not valuable.
Speaker 3:Rest, yeah, I, anecdotally, I think it's pretty bad and I think it's great that careers are getting longer. But boy, I mean, and I think you're right about hips, I mean I think the other thing, you're right, you have an arm injury, but you don't necessarily see a lot of 45-year-old guys nursing an arm injury. You watch Boris Becker walk around Wimbledon. It's, it's painful, it's like, uh, you know, it's like nfl old timers day. Um, I, I don't know what do you think? I mean my, anecdotally, I think it's pretty bad, but I, it's, it's hard to make the case with data the one thing that popped into my head was when you said oh yeah, players are playing longer.
Speaker 1:I'm like, well, that that would be the tournaments taking a lot of credit for like arthroscopic surgeries and diet and being able to afford teams.
Speaker 1:Especially when there's no sample size and we started the longer events recently. I don't think that's a valid argument at all. It's tough to take credit for rest days in Madrid and pay that forward to Novak not putting an ounce of sugar in his ounce of sugar, uh, in his body for 20 years, like I don't know that. I'm not sure that's because they had an off day in Madrid. I think that is. Uh, that's a bit of a reach. Um was reading your socials this week. Uh, you had some clarity. Your mailbag has been, uh, it's what I have read as a tennis fan, um, for since I retired. I feel like I can kind of keep. Uh, you know I I'm obviously follow the game nonstop now, but you know, there there was certainly a five-year sunset after I retired where I was kind of a lukewarm viewer, just because I still think I was a little bit burnout. Um, questions about the mailback. What's the current status? Obviously, obviously there was some turmoil at sports Illustrated. Tell us it's still alive and well, please.
Speaker 3:Oh man, all right, I could do just that. Andy Murray, carolyn Wozniacki, we talked about Kim Kleister. It was a bit of a comeback. It was a dodgy few months over at Sports Illustrated, but we seem to have been rescued by a responsible steward and the mailbag's back. So it was. You know, it's a lot of fun, it's a labor of love. If people enjoy it, I should pepper you with some mailbag. I mean, the questions are always all over the map. A lot of Hall of Fame questions, a lot of Roger Rafa Novak. Stella H wants to know. She wants to get her tennis fan father-in-law a creative tennis gift. Did I have any ideas? You want to? Uh, what would you have? Stella? Get her tennis crazed father-in-law? That's not presumably obvious like a racket anything, uh vision.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say the same thing swing stick. Yeah, I was gonna say swing vision, or email andy roddick foundation and get him a hit on arthur s stadium. Ooh, which, by the way, and hopefully this goes on, I'm thinking about putting it up on like a like a like a bidding website and plugging it here and then maybe for like we'll, we'll do some sort of entry for, for listeners to where there's a chance, some sort of sweepstakes, maybe a half hour hit on Ash, one of those days that I have. I have a deal with the USTA where I get a couple a year, so maybe we'll do that on the pod.
Speaker 2:We can do it as like a little raffle. Yeah, raise some money. That's a good idea.
Speaker 1:Stella H only has as good of a chance of anyone else. But for those of you who hadn't hit on Arthur Ash before, believe it or not, it's pretty cool. I believe it. Couple of those, yeah, email and uh, to the foundation yeah, it's all for, it's all for. You know, we'll get something set up, andy. Yeah, we'll do, we'll do that. I've talked to our, our foundation ceo. She's all in on it. So, um, uh, I would say swing vision. It's so basically what it is. It's like, it's like for tennis nerds huge data readout. Uh, all cards on the table. I'm an investor in it. Um, they will. Uh, I think we're doing, we're doing cool spot. Are we allowed to talk about the sponsor segment yet, or no?
Speaker 2:Not yet.
Speaker 1:Okay, uh, they are going to come on. Uh, they were one of our first sponsors. They will be back again. But we have a really cool segment that uses their technology, um and you all in your games and it'll be a cool, cool piece. Swing vision's awesome Data readouts how hard you're hitting it. You can track improvement or lack of improvement. Basically, you run it off your phone. It's like, if you see, you know, it's like a combination of ShotSpot and like the stuff you track man on golf and they put it all into one and it's just this unbelievable data set. So for like nerds like me, you can hang it up kind of on the back of whatever court you're on and it gives you a full data analysis of whatever practice or or match you're playing. And it has tons of other features.
Speaker 2:but check out swing vision, stella h you know they should couple that with you know, they should couple that with what is probably like a little bit of olipop oh what?
Speaker 1:maybe a couple olipops, I don't know whoa it's healthy with pre prebiotics.
Speaker 3:It's good for the gut. What are you drinking there?
Speaker 1:man, tell me more about it. It's Olipop, it's fantastic. It's soda, full of prebiotics, no sugar. They may or may not be a sponsor, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I will tell you this, so it's fun. And, by the way, this is this is our first sponsor, so we can all cheer.
Speaker 3:We've been making fun of ourselves. I guess swing vision, but that was more like just because we're friends.
Speaker 1:Um, I will tell you my, my kids, uh, I'm I'm kind of like anti-soda, I'm kind of like against things that are bad for you. I think there's like this whole I won't go off on a tangent because I'll lose most of our audience but I do think there's like this food revolution coming on what we put into our bodies. So not a soda family. My kids can drink Olipop because prebiotics, there's next to no sugar and they love it Old kind of classic flavors. So it's something I used. And then we get the email across because we have been getting inbound with sponsor stuff. But we wanted to kind of fit and at least be something that we're fans of. But yeah, check out Olipop, it's fit and, you know, at least be something that we're fans of um.
Speaker 3:But yeah, check out ollie pop, it's awesome um. What else from the mailbag, john?
Speaker 1:oh man you want some? Uh, let's see, give me, give me, give me one more before you get rid of you all right, uh, jacob a says can you tell me why I like danielle collins so much?
Speaker 3:she was never my favorite player, but in 2024 2024, she's number one and I would say the tennis story of the year so far. What are your thoughts All?
Speaker 1:right. So how do you answer that one?
Speaker 2:So I will say like Mike dude.
Speaker 1:So I'll say like of our team, uh, techie Sean is kind of the only one who is much of a tennis fan. Mike's a sports fan so he knows kind of the slams and the whole thing. Social Sophie has no clue about tennis. She is learning at a rapid pace and she's the funniest meme queen on all of tennis media. But, mike Hayden, I actually shouldn't be the one to answer this. You love Danimal Her?
Speaker 2:energy is just incredible. I mean we talked about it on the podcast last week. I mean she just brings this like emotive nature that I think any sports fan can like relate to, you know, and I just love that. She's fiery and she's yelling back at the fans, uh, you know, and I mean who doesn't love a nickname danimal?
Speaker 1:danimal. It's a great name, I mean it's.
Speaker 2:I'm upset that this is like her, like ride into the sunset, because I'm just like meeting her for the first time.
Speaker 1:But that's part of what is like awesome about it too. Like it's like I tell the story, uh, during the Miami final, uh, on Sundays we go out for a family dinner with Brooke's parents and our kids and the whole thing most Sundays when we're not traveling. And it was when she was trying to close out the Miami final and so everyone was in our living room kind of waiting to go and I said, hey, I want to see this, I want to see if she closes this out. And my kids, who you know, our son, just discovered that I ever played tennis when he went to kindergarten and that's that's two years ago. Uh, our daughter, I think, doesn't really understand it. So we're not like I, we have nothing, like I have no, nothing in the house. That's, that's tennis at all. Uh, so it's not as if we're like a tennis crew. Um, brooke's parents kind of don't follow as much.
Speaker 1:Since I retired, brooke, you know, barely liked watching when she had to watch my matches, um, but they sit down and watch Daniel Collins and I give them kind of the story of like this is her best tournament ever and she's announced her retirement and you know, and the way she was emoting and they didn't have to guess what was happening. You don't have to be a die-hard tennis fan to relate to the emotional set that Danielle Collins brings to, like every match and they're often different. Like in Charleston, she was pretty calm, it was a little bit more relaxed, she had confidence, fast forward to Madrid. You know the she gets a Euro whistle, you know, because she's talking to the umpire and she goes snap phooey on someone and it is awesome. And it's like you don't have to be a diehard tennis fan to understand her vibe, to understand that there's, like this primal aggression inside of this.
Speaker 1:You know awesome. You know woman just taking cuts at everything. There's, there's it's not like there's this like subtlety, it's like she is going to walk up and throw haymakers like and it's just, it's, it's fun, I mean. So I, I get it, jacob a, I get it, I'm in me too bro I think, I think, I think she might be.
Speaker 1:I don't want to speak for producer mike, but I think she's his maybe favorite discovery, since you kind of yes, got caught up in the dog lover big fan.
Speaker 3:The tennis business big fan there's no, there's like no emotional editor. But there's nothing fair like there.
Speaker 1:There's nothing nasty right, it's just pure unadulterated emotion I always judge, I always like, because now I'm I'm I'm far enough removed where I don't have my own personal interactions with a lot of the people that we cover right, like I I don't travel much, um, you know, but I do have an like, like we're all text you what's this person like? Or you know, lindsay is obviously uh, uh a friend and you know we we talk in courier. So I, I understand. But when you hear the fellow players talk about someone like everyone loves Medvedev, like you know, maybe, except for Sitsipas. But like Murray was always salty on court, still is, but he was great off the court, like there was never an issue, like in some people behave well in our, our pricks off of the court, uh, the fellow American players seem legitimately happy for the Danimal success and I think that is the that's oftentimes the proper read on things.
Speaker 2:Lindsay actually talked about her when we had her on the show and she was talking about how, you know, she was trying to do the Billie Jean King like roster, you know, and she was kind of on the outside.
Speaker 1:Sorry, just hold that thought one second. Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2:Okay, as you were with the, you know, and she talked about how gracious Daniel Collins, john, we're going to send you.
Speaker 1:Don't interrupt Mike's in the middle of something serious.
Speaker 2:I was trying to get people to go watch an old episode, guys.
Speaker 1:in the fucking worth I'm show this the Hayden show.
Speaker 2:now Come on but ultimately that she was very gracious and and and not making the roster butim show.
Speaker 1:This is the Hayden show. Now come on.
Speaker 2:But ultimately, yeah, that she was very gracious yeah and, and and, not making the roster, but then having this run and I just think, go listen to Lindsay Davenport talk about it, she'll.
Speaker 1:She'll say it better than me so I want, I want your take on one more thing. Uh, jw, and I'm gonna let you go, and this is just. This has been making me laugh for like the past 24 hours, just just kind of, mostly to myself. So we do this kind of midweek pop-up show. Uh, because of some logistical issues in in in Charlotte, um last week, and so we ended up doing basically two shows in the week where we normally just do a big Tuesday release and then get ready for the Sunday show, uh that you're currently watching on T2. Uh, so it was.
Speaker 1:It was more like a team, like a Dan Patrick type, where we're all talking back and forth and everyone's in studio and techie, sean had a question and Mike was in, and social Sophie gave her a movie review of of challengers. But my favorite thing is it's like separately, separately. The last day Sophie came in yesterday and she was doing something else uh at our house and you know she's like well, I was like how'd you, how'd you feel after you were on air, cause she had never been on air before. She was like really nervous. It's like I mean it was fine, I mean I could have done this. You know kind of self-critical, which is cute and she's like. But then this bitch it's like started started telling me like my movie review sucked and I was just so. They're getting feedback like from the public now, which I find endlessly entertaining. And Mike, he said like the grunt that someone said it was like it was like boo it and they're like producer. Mike doesn't even know. That's fucking Rublev's grunt like they're starting to get they're starting to catch heat.
Speaker 2:I stay out of the comments section.
Speaker 1:Give them advice, as someone who writes opinions for a living and then probably gets blowback on 20% of them, just coach producer Mike and Social Sovion how to deal with the limelight.
Speaker 3:Oh man, don't read the comments. Every now and then go back at someone and make them defend it. Because every now and then you write back to someone and you say I'm just curious, we can have a difference of opinion, but why would you bring that level of incivility into the conversation? I mean, I couldn't imagine going up to a stranger and ever writing that, and nine times out of ten they say oh my God, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize, I got a little carried away. I love what you do Every now and then push someone and make them twist a little bit. But yeah, don't read the comments.
Speaker 3:Don't write anything about Novak Djokovic and otherwise keep it to Daniel Collins, you'll be all good. But yeah, I mean honestly. I mean there's a serious conversation we should have another time about social media and how jarring it is and I'm'm of a certain age and it's still a little bit it's wild when strangers are like just saying horrible things that would get you in a bar fight. I cannot imagine being a 19 year old tennis player and have someone say you know, you, fat cow, learn how to hit a backhand. Don't read the comments. If you do, every now and then challenge someone. That would be my.
Speaker 1:Or or or, read the comments and definitely let me know what they're saying, because it's endlessly entertaining for me. And, by the way, when it's like, how could you reach this level of incivility, like I actually I'm with, I might be with the other side, because Mike did say laver cup this week.
Speaker 2:How do you pronounce it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that deserves to just get crushed.
Speaker 2:Laver, yeah, laver.
Speaker 1:Laver.
Speaker 2:Laver Fucking laver.
Speaker 1:Laver I shouldn't say that because it's like blasphemous to say effing, but like it's at you, not him, obviously, but okay.
Speaker 2:Laver.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe we'll get JW. Thanks for joining us. Hopefully we'll get more Lover Cup updates. Josh Dines kind of as an idea to come on this show because we thought it would be really interesting to find out all that we don't know about the stupid decisions we make with our bodies and how we get hurt. And then this week in Madrid it became, I guess, more relevant than normal because we have young players going down, uh, than normal, because we have young players going down Alcaraz, uh, arm injury center.
Speaker 1:Hip Medvedev, hip, um, it seems like there's just this. Uh, you know they're, they're John and I were talking about it. Uh, last segment, um, but I do want to welcome in Josh Dines, uh, to get his take on it. Uh, his bio is like a laundry list of you know, he is operates out of special surgery in New York, medical director of major league pickleball, but it gets better, don't worry, that's not like the, that's not like the main thing. So, uh, we don't want to lose credibility, um, here on this tennis podcast. Uh, uh, team doctor for the U S Davis cup team. Uh, when I played, his father was my first team doctor and then Josh was after him. New York Mets baseball team New York Rangers hockey team, la Dodgers has offered more than geez. I didn't realize you were this good.
Speaker 4:I'm pretty good.
Speaker 1:More than 300 original research papers. Blah blah blah has authored seven textbooks on scientific advisory board of several orthopedic implant companies and, most importantly, co-founded and serves as chief medical officer of VueFi. One of my best friends, Josh Gines how you doing, man?
Speaker 4:Thanks so much. Great to be here and thank you, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I'll walk you through my first week with the Dines family, you ready? So I get called up as a 17-year-old practice partner in Los Angeles. As a 17 year old practice partner in Los Angeles, uh, walk into the LA forum and the team at that point was Andre Agassi, pete Sampras, captain John McEnroe Uh, I think it was Johnson Palmer that time. Um, maybe O'Brien Palmer, some combo. Uh, todd Martin was the other hitting partner and he was like seven in the world at the time. Andbrien Palmer, some combo. Uh, todd Martin was the other hitting partner and he was like seven in the world at the time. And then I was 17 and uh, you know, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So it was like a weird Davis cup experience because Pete and Andre didn't really practice with each other. Uh, no one was staying at the team hotel. So basically I had the top floor of like the four seasons in Santa Monica to myself with like a team chef, but like our captain, john McInerney, didn't stay at the same hotel, like, so it was a little bit fractured. But I go through that. And because Todd's coming back from an injury, an ankle injury, he can't play sets. Uh, johnny Mack wants to hit for two hours at the end of every day because he thinks he's going to play doubles. So, anyways, I put in a big load that week, right Like I'm talking 10 hours a day and anyway, by the end of the week I have a torn meniscus in my knee and our team doctor is Josh's father. David Dines, who is a legendary, legendary, legendary man, took care of me, put me in great hands with Dr David Alcheck, got my knee taken care of. Never be a problem again Again.
Speaker 1:Josh and I became fast friends. We met fast forward. He takes over for his father, was at Josh's wedding. He was at our wedding. We have become great, great friends forever and a day since. So that is our backstory. Now I want to know what's changing in tennis currently. What are you seeing? Why are all these young players getting hurt? Are we just paying more attention to it, or is there something that's changed?
Speaker 4:I mean, I think it's a combination. You could probably speak to the tennis part better than I because you have a much better understanding of the game. What I would say and I'm seeing it, whether it's tennis, baseball, kind of the buzzword now just with these young athletes is overuse. I mean you talk about your one week as a hitting partner there, 10 hours a day. I'm seeing this. You know the eighth doubles player at Jericho High School. They're out there with both the team and then their private coach and then somebody else. It's just starting at such a young age.
Speaker 4:Everybody is so focused on scholarships or turning professional that and they see it as kind of. You know, the coaches, on the other hand, see it as a money grab. So it's, I think it's, it's multifactorial, but I think, to boil it down, it's just kind of overuse at, to be fair, a much higher level. I mean I I watched tennis as a casual fan. Everything now is a 20, 30 shot rally where there's no quick points, there's no easy points, um, you know. So I think it's probably all of the above.
Speaker 1:Now you talk about overuse. What ages are you talking about? Are these acute injuries that happen, or are these usage injuries that just happened earlier?
Speaker 4:Well, I think it's both. The acute injuries are going to happen. You're playing sports. You're playing high-level sports. You're going to tear your meniscus. Stuff's going to happen. What we're seeing, that's concerning particularly at the younger age, are these more chronic injuries that you wouldn't see until you know. Now you're seeing them in 14 and 15-year-olds, whereas you previously wouldn't see them until they're in their 20s or you know 30s, because they're just playing for that many more hours all year. You know, when I grew up I'm old now, but, like you, play multiple sports. Even the really good athletes, you know who are going to go professional in something, whether it's a Mike Trout or Roger Federer, they played other sports. It wasn't just tennis or just baseball. Now nobody's getting drafted by multiple professional sports because everybody plays just one. So because of that, it's 12 months of the year playing tennis or throwing baseballs, and now we're seeing these chronic injuries that again you saw in 25, 30-year-olds and 15-year-olds, and that's when it becomes a problem.
Speaker 1:Is this parents gone crazy? Is this coaches gone crazy? Is this parents not knowing and trusting the coaches gone crazy?
Speaker 4:Like, or or is it all of the above? I think your question is a great one. I think it's all the above. I think the parents have gone and it's this vicious cycle where the parents have gone crazy because they think, look they, everybody wants the best for their kid and they think they want to give them the best chance. So they have multiple lessons and multiple teams and multiple coaches. And then the other end of it, you know, my daughter was 10. She plays soccer Like they run it like a Chelsea football club. It's crazy the amount of practices they send game film. I'm like I love watching her.
Speaker 4:But to be fair, it's tough enough to watch one game. I mean, I'm not going to watch and review the game with her and it's. You know they take it more seriously. I played my freshman year at Dartmouth mediocre soccer and they take it more seriously as 10-year-olds than we do now. So I think it's the coaches, it's the parents you know there's so much money in it and I see it from a parent perspective now, where I mentioned my daughter again.
Speaker 4:But she was a good soccer player and then she starts to play tennis and do other things. And then she came back. She watched the Women's World Cup. She's like, oh, I want to play soccer again. I was like great, she goes out there and people that she used to be better than were better than she is, and because they've been playing all the time, it's frustrating for her. So you kind of you know, so she wants to play more, better than you. There's probably some personal drive that wants you to get out there more. Then it's the parents, then it's the coaches. So I and I don't know how the clock gets reset. I, you know it's, it's sort of out there and I don't know how you turn it back and just make sure that everybody plays multiple sports. I think you know. The horse is out of the barn, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:And are the? Are the, are the usage rates kind of out gaining technological, uh, technological advances in sports? Because listen, uh, you don't see tennis players walking around with six inch scars down the middle of their knee anymore. Like I was back from a knee injury in you know I had a surgery done when I was 17 and I could hit again in three weeks or four weeks. So it seems like there are technical, logical advances to make the recovery time shorter. Are people just ignoring? You know we used to be out for six months. Now I'm back in four weeks. So I'm just going to be a psychopath about recovery.
Speaker 4:Yeah, probably that's part of it, look, and not everybody needs surgery. So now they're doing, you know, injections, prp, biologics You've kind of heard of those things so that you know theoretically could get people back more quickly. But you know, and they rush back and then beat it up again. So we're probably also getting more sophisticated in making the diagnosis. I mean, you know, obviously it was a while ago but, like over the last probably 20 years, hip injuries are much more common now but we didn't even hip arthroscopy didn't even exist then, you know, 20 years ago. And now we're so much more sophisticated, diagnosis wise and also treatment wise, and it's probably a double edged sword. You know where you're diagnosing them with, because it's less invasive. You know, maybe people are getting a little more aggressive about, you know, getting there, fixing things a little more more quickly before they become these sort of train wrecks.
Speaker 1:Is that? Is there? Yeah, is there like a proactive bias? If you get, let's say, past 40 years old my hips are, I'm assuming I'm going to get your advice on who to go to at some point, uh, for a hip operation. But, like is, are people just being proactive about, like it's going to hurt in 10 years? So therefore, I'll just take care of it now.
Speaker 4:I well, I think, depending on the, depending on kind of the athlete we're talking about, if it's the weekend warrior, maybe they're getting a little more aggressive. You know what? I'd rather have something done now than wait 15 years till. I can't even really sort of enjoy it. So they'll do things a little sooner. I don't think that we're seeing that at the younger age, though. You know, there was a scary time not to take the folks away from tennis but for baseball, where parents were coming in asking for elective Tommy John surgery for their kids because they heard they could throw harder.
Speaker 1:So I was telling you about Mike.
Speaker 4:Yeah, crazy, I mean legitimately. That's like assault and battery on your kid.
Speaker 1:No, but like. Well, okay, so, but like for people that haven't heard this before, talk through ages parents what they say and give us like kind of like a normal situation than like a nightmare situation.
Speaker 4:I think so. Look, there's the unfortunately the normal situation. Now I mentioned Tommy John surgery. That's baseball players. Your sports fans have heard about that where they tear the ligament on the inside of their elbow and you throw really hard. Your professional baseball player 25% of them have had Tommy John surgery pitchers in the major leagues now. So it's common. What's scary is you're seeing at the younger ages, the 14 and 15-year-olds, getting back to that overuse discussion we were having earlier and pitching coaches and all those things. But what's really disturbing is you get reports of people who make the majors afterwards. Jacob deGrom, tommy John surgery, has a great career, one of the best pitchers and throwing harder.
Speaker 4:So parents for a while were hearing this and saying wait a second, maybe I'll just do this electively. If you can get my kid throwing three or four miles per hour faster now they can a scholarship to play baseball at some college. You've never heard of Division VII where, just so they could brag to their friends that you know their kid plays college baseball, and it was literally for a while it would be once every two weeks where a parent would come in and ask for that. I think you know we've got enough sort of out there. You know almost public service announcements telling parents that they're crazy. You don't want to do this for multitude reasons, and now I'm not hearing that, which is great, but it just speaks to how crazy the parents can get in this competitive environment where they, again, I think they're coming from the wrong place. They want the best for their kid, but it really can go down the wrong path, see, I always thought that tennis had cornered the market on psychotic parents.
Speaker 1:Like I thought we were like the leader in the clubhouse. Like we I saw I talked about it a couple of weeks ago on the pod. Like I, I literally saw with my own eyeballs, uh, a father who had a basically couldn't get within you know 200 yards of a tennis facility because he had, you know, beaten his kids and they lose a 10 and under match, up in a tree with binoculars, like 200 yards away watching watching the match, and I always kind of felt like in an individual sport, you know it kind of maybe exaggerated crazy, or do do parents view even team sports like in a silo, where it's like an individual inside of this operation? Now, it it just I thought I thought we were the craziest, are we not the craziest?
Speaker 4:I think you were the far and away the clubhouse leaders, but people are catching up for the reason you just talked about, because I think you're actually right. You know, look, when I grew up and played baseball like you have one coach and that was it. Now, as I mentioned, like you know, everybody has pitching coaches. It's almost become an individual. They have hitting coaches. I mean, these 14 and 15-year-olds have hitting coaches and a separate pitching coach and fielding coaches in addition to their team. So I think even these team sports have become individual efforts and kind of journeys as well. So the soccer coach they all play soccer, but then they've got like some of the kids on Poppy's team, have individual coaches just to work on dribbling and ball skills. And then there's, you know, basketball coaches. You've got your team and then these separate, individualized instruction, so you've made it an individual sport also, which has allowed the parents to get almost as crazy as the tennis parents.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm listening. I don't like to be beat it. I don't like to be beat at anything, so as long as we're still. You're still the least, but it's now a game as long as I feel like we're more like international crazy like we're crazy everywhere, right?
Speaker 1:So John Wertheim and I were just talking in the first segment of the show. There's been a lot made of Masters 1000s and tennis going to a longer format, right? So, as Miami and Indian Wells kind of used to be outliers as far as the 11, 12, 13 days event, now a lot of the Masters 1000s are converting to that and one of their selling points was listen, there's more rest between matches. And my take is like listen, if there's five more Master 1000s that are longer and you have to be on site, that's five weeks lost for rest on your own pillow. Actually intentional working out. Yannick Sinner had to withdraw this week with a hip issue and it came from him. He's like I was training in the German Madrid like lifting, because I have to do my lifting cycles during these events because there's no off time. Am I an idiot for thinking that these weeks would be better spent like intentionally being somewhere where you're not switching time zones, surfaces, et cetera, et cetera? Like as a player, I'd rather play back-to-back matches and be fatigued than be injured.
Speaker 4:I think you're always very intelligent about this. This isn't just to blow smoke up your ass. I mean you're always thoughtful and I agree with that 100% and I mean you can kind of look at like acute versus acute on chronic workload and they could sort of spin it that you're now dividing it up over two weeks. But I think you're right. Resting at a hotel, even if it's a four seasons, knowing that you're going to play the next day, is completely different than being somewhere else.
Speaker 4:What's really home? Your own bed, your own. You've got your own routine, work with your team, your physical therapist, to really get back, really rest. I mean there's like anything else, there's kind of different degrees of rest. So I think that's a positive spin on it and I think look as a fan, it's fun to watch those tournaments, I love them, so it's great. But from the player perspective, I agree with you. I mean I'd rather get the work done and then be able to kind of recover and rehab on my own time, in my own way, than sort of have it be dictated that now I'm still on the road, more weeks of the year, more hotels away from home, do my normal routine.
Speaker 1:Do you think that us tennis players would see you less if we actually had time to schedule in these rest training blocks? Cause I have it written here, uh, and you're well-versed in all sports. Um, you know, obviously you've been the trusted doctor for professional sports teams. You know, on on different coasts, nfl seven to eight months I get that. It's acute. You get knocked in the head. You need that time off. Nba four months off. And this is all assuming you win everything. This isn't like the shitty teams get more time off and this is the same in tennis. You make World Tour finals and you add three weeks to your year. Congratulations, nba. Four months off. Euro we add three weeks to your year. Congratulations, nba, four months off. Euro soccer three to four months off. Baseball three to four months off. How psychotic are we in tennis that we play 11 and 11 and a half months a year, and are we?
Speaker 4:short-sighted by doing that. Well, I think it depends on how you're defining being short-sighted and who the we is. I mean, I think, if you're trying to make money and they want to have tournaments all year and I think the good players have the luxury of not playing some of the events and again, you have a better understanding of this than I, but you probably don't have to play 30 weeks a year to create enough points to get sort of bids into the next tournaments. But the way it is now, it's a rat race. You have to be out there.
Speaker 4:So I think, again, it is a disservice from a health perspective of the players. Clearly they would benefit from more rest, but it's almost like I'm talking about my daughter being 10. Like if everybody else is doing it, then you've got to do it. So somebody's got to do like kind of a hard reset because you're not going to get a couple of players to just volunteer and not show up, because then the other people are going to take their spots, I think. But yeah, look, big picture would definitely be healthier to not do.
Speaker 4:I used to make fun of baseball. Sorry to interrupt. I was going to say I used to make fun of baseball because it's not a contact sport. But then you look at the calendar and starting in spring training in basically middle of February I mean, there was a period where now they added a couple but they had eight days off for the season that started, basically April 1st until the end of September, to do anything. Show up to any office that many days Now everybody works from home but can you imagine showing up at any office?
Speaker 1:you know, basically for six months straight, getting you know one day off a lot. That's that. It's just a grind. Yeah, it, it's certainly. And they're reacting off of the schedules for for the other sports. And listen, I, I and also I on this podcast. I never want to pretend like pointing out problems are simple. Solutions are much tougher. I understand that there are TV contracts in place that they can't get out of for a certain amount of time.
Speaker 1:I've just been thinking about it more because of the opportunities, other investors coming into tennis. There's talks of super tours, there's talks of you know, all these things make you say, like the conversation about what's a perfect schedule, what's a perfect schedule? And it feels more real and I don't entirely agree with the reasons why this is happening. But if it happens, the top players play the most matches. Post-us Open have one or two big events. The last month or six weeks of the calendar should all be 250-level events, should all be for players that need to put points on the board to make a living for the next year and the people that play the most throughout the year are done If they want to be. I could as a, as when I was, you know, four in the world. I could still play a two 50 event if I wanted to, if it made sense, if there was one an hour away, and I wanted to use it as like a training block to get matches and you know, in a competitive thing. But there needs to be. I don't think the players that play the most throughout the year should also have to add two or three weeks to their season at the end of the year. But also, I understand that the guys that are 80 and 90 in the world, they want to cash paychecks because they have to. I fully understand that. But the lack, give them, give them a month, give them six weeks where it's paycheck season, where it's ranking point season for for the next year. But also, that's a choice, right You're. You're actually choosing to opt into that schedule as opposed to it being uh, basically just just presented uh to you.
Speaker 1:Every time I hear you talk about baseball and the parents, I think of the movie Rookie of the Year with Henry Roland Gardner. But I don't think these stories end with the Cubs winning the pennant. I want to compare and contrast. What are the most difficult things about the physicality of tennis that you see? Obviously we're not taking hits. We're talking about hockey, we're not. You know, most of us have our teeth. We're not dealing with CTE, we're just we're dumb on our own, you know. Talk about like what's the closest comp as far as physicality movement to tennis.
Speaker 4:I mean it's so unique because, again, the points now I just watch as a fan physicality movement to tennis. It's so unique because, again, the points now I just watch as a fan it is amazing what these points look like. I think, look, basketball is still a contact sport at the NBA, especially when you watch the playoffs. But just the movement up and back in the court, just nonstop, high level. I think that would probably be the closest I could think of, but you probably put more thought in this than I. But it's clearly much more vigorous than baseball. And look, hockey it's crazy. It's a car crash for every 30-second shift, but the best players on the ice are playing for 20 minutes. So I'm not drawing any comparison between hockey and tennis, but you're out there for five hours sometimes and you get quick breaks in between serves and stuff. But it has become unbelievably demanding.
Speaker 4:It gets hard to watch as a fan now because these matches go on forever. It's amazing the level of play, but it's so physical. Every ball is hit so hard. There's no quick points from my viewing of it. You've got to be out there for the physical. I guess you know. In terms of like cardiovascular, I think it's up there with anything? Soccer maybe. I mean maybe soccer for an hour, but even that's an hour, an hour yeah, I, I had a.
Speaker 1:I had a point of pride last week because larry fitzgerald was on a t2 show and he said you know in no uncertain terms, that he thought tennis players were the best athletes on earth. Which is shocking to me because, like when you see him walking around, he is a mammal, he is an absolute specimen. And so I kind of feel like I feel for the players and what they're going through, and I see the same things that you do. I see every player is a six foot five rubber band of a human is slide, able to slide open stance into a backend that they hit with two hands. There's no weaknesses. You know, like you look at a center, you look at a Novak, like you can't go through them and you can't go around them, and so, while that is amazing to me, I have a lot of gripes about it. But I also feel like the physicality now in tennis is so obvious, even to someone that's not looking for the nuances of it where. You know, when I started up, it's like country club sport and I'm like man, it's like I hate being dismissed like that Cause it's a, it's, it's fucking hard, man, like it's, it's, it's really hard, and, but I agree that the the athleticism uh that I've seen is is just absurd.
Speaker 1:Uh, one, one more thing I want to get to uh specifically, um, and I don't know if there's any way to stop it. I don't know, but it seems to me that the most chronic injury in tennis now, where it's like you see players 20 years after, uh, they retire, is hips and so like. Currently you have center who's young going with hip stuff? Medvedev, uh, hopefully it's not bad, but pulled up and had to retire with a hip injury. Uh, andre has dealt with hip stuff, jimmy Connors has metal hips, guga has a hip, magnus, norman, bob, brian, andy Murray, and the list goes on and on and on. Why is that? Why has it become uh, seemingly more prevalent over time time? I'm guessing it has something to do with open stances, and is there anything that the like all the club chuckers listening can do to kind of avoid those same injuries, obviously at a lesser scale?
Speaker 4:yeah, so part of it. Yeah, you're right, and I think there's, you know, a couple of questions in that. I think one is yeah, you answer, because I think that the open stance they're just running again you're a match used to be an hour and a half, now you're running for five hours, you know, it's just it's like treads on a tire when you start talking about kind of like hip arthritis and stuff. So I think you know, at the level of the professionals, the centers, the, you know, the Bryans, the Andy Murrays, the people who had that, now, now we're more sophisticated and hip arthroscopy didn't really exist when I was 20, 25 years ago, it was just starting. Now it's become almost a subspecialty within orthopedic sports medicine and I think that has the potential and there have been studies on this showing that it can change the natural history, delay arthritis, delay the need for hip replacement, things of that nature. Now you're not doing that electively in the centers and people like that. But I think for the weekend warriors, the 40-year-olds, the 50-year-olds, whereas it used to be, suck it up until you need a hip replacement, now there's at least sort of steps that can be taken to avoid that, because it is a bigger procedure, despite some of the examples you gave of people already returning back to the professional level. I think, being aware of it, knowing that hips are an issue like you know, flexibility, core strength I think you you know everybody's much more aware of these things and can do things more preventatively.
Speaker 4:Um, and then from a just sort of general, you know, health advice thing, playing for playing through pain is, especially if you're not getting paid to do it, makes no sense whatsoever. You know, listen to your body. If you need to take a couple weeks off, you know you're talking about professionals taking a few weeks off. I see these weekend warriors who play, you know, seven days a week and everything. I like you got to take some time off. I'm like, oh no, but I'm in this USTA thing next week. My comment is like, well, how much are they paying you? I'm like I kept the Andy Roddick out of the French Open. You can miss Old Westbury Country Club. Now they actually probably thought I'm implying that it was for medical reasons, because you couldn't play school that day.
Speaker 4:With that said, they could miss the old Westbury Country Club mixer, but it's at all levels. It's not just the kids and the parents. I think everybody tries to define themselves by sports on a certain level, but people need to be smart about it.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that being good at sports gets you is access to expertise, right? So I'm struggling in France. I can call Josh, I can fly across the ocean check it out. What's wrong is oftentimes, uh, that that's important. What it's not to me, like knowing I wasn't going to hurt something further or risk serious injury, is not something that everyone can get uh at scale. Uh, josh, tell me about view fi. Uh, tell me how it happened. Uh, josh and I worked together on on, uh on another healthcare company. Uh, but tell us uh why it's important and tell us why it matters for you. Know you, you you've talked about the weekend warriors, but talk about how they can get kind of the same care as as I can.
Speaker 4:That's a great question, I think. Look, it started basically like this plus you know kind of nine other people on a zoom call early, covid, booze and alcohol, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:I buried the leaves, but it was like one of the calls that everyone, everyone remembers.
Speaker 4:Josh and I were on a drunkish yes, the best ideas happen, um, and so, yeah, I actually you know this is again not to, you know, be a blatant ass kisser, but like you're, you're good a lot of things. I think one of the most underrated things is you're like extremely thoughtful and smart and ask great questions. And you went, you polled the audience. It was like you know, nine other people on the call, all of whom much more successful than I, and you ask them kind of what's going to change in their sort of fields. They already had their answers and I said, for you know, orthopedics, telehealth, is going to, you know, got to change, because right now I'm doing Zoom calls.
Speaker 4:This was two weeks into COVID. People were happy that I was just not abandoning them, but I'm trying to examine their shoulder and their arms floating off the screen. It was a joke, but it was kind of a next thing. You're like is this really a problem? And I thought it was.
Speaker 4:And fast forward, you had two guys you were good friends with, who were much more tech savvy than both of us, who said we could kind of build a good product.
Speaker 4:And selfishly, it started where my idea was just to kind of build something that I could use to examine patients a bit more realistically, to do it virtually, so that you and I would do it via FaceTime when you're at Roland Garros but, like other people, don't have that luxury, and we thought maybe we could kind of bring this to the masses, to your point.
Speaker 4:And then it kind of got legs of its own, where we've got a great team around us who built this product and now really at scale, can, you know, basically treat any musculoskeletal condition and at least get patients on the right first step, get them down the right path, which is a huge issue in healthcare. You start going down the wrong path, the costs add up, the pain lingers, you don't get better and things start getting done that may not need to be done or may not needed to have been done if they were diagnosed correctly initially. So with Vufi, we built this amazing platform that can make the right diagnosis, treat people appropriately with physical therapy, be it in person or virtually, and if they need to go to a surgeon, um, we, we've got that capability to get them to the best people as well. So definitely something I'm very proud of, and you were a huge role in that. So thank you.
Speaker 1:I'm always happy to learn, uh, even about stuff I have no business being involved with. Uh, you are one of the best at what you do in the entire world. Uh, I love you. You are one of the best at what you do in the entire world. I love you, man, You're one of my best friends. Thanks for coming on the pod. This is awesome and we'll sidebar soon.
Speaker 4:No, this is great. Thanks, and I do feel bad for you guys. If you went from Larry Fitzgerald to me, though, you're heading in the wrong direction quickly.
Speaker 1:No to be fair.
Speaker 4:Larry wouldn't even think about coming on our show. It was on. That makes much more sense.
Speaker 1:Thanks, brother, take care guys. All right, before we get to Mike's trivia question, a little update, since we talked to Dr Josh Dines, who I thought was phenomenal. Yannick Sinner is out of Rome and the hip situation seems a little scarier than it once was what they thought internally with his team, and they haven't named the specific injury. We have a tendency in tennis just to say like, oh, it's the hip bone or the calf bone, they're not bones Is bad. Mri showed something that they didn't like.
Speaker 1:Immediately pulled out of Rome, which I don't have to tell you, for an Italian player is a huge, huge deal, especially on the heels of what he has created the last six months, being the best player on earth, as he's a household name worldwide. He is a bona fide Beckham level celebrity in Italy right now. So for him to pull out of there. Concerning, they saw something in the MRI they didn't like and he says I will not play Roland Garros unless I'm 100% confident, unless I get the test back that say good to go. So that is concerning. I think he is legitimately questionable for Roland Garros at this moment.
Speaker 1:But let's get some trivia in. One of the things that we aim to do every week is get a little bit smarter, from people who might know something more about something than we do, whether it's Lindsay Davenport winning gold medals or the Bryans being the best doubles team ever and this week it's basically just what are we missing as far as injuries and I appreciate the clarity from Josh Dines and providing his medical expertise Can't solve for it, but we know something us athletes like to stay away from is forced rest Right, like like we'd like to be able to control what we do during our off time a little bit more and not have to be in a certain place time. We need to be able to build a foundation to do the extreme things that we need to do physically for this job. Producer, mike, what were your takeaways with Dr Dines?
Speaker 2:I think the biggest thing was just thinking about it through the lens of youth sports. You know, thinking about how do we, how do we fortify our young and upcoming athletes against, against injury? And then also just the ridiculousness that parents are trying to get elective Tommy John surgery Like it's Botox.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's insane. Well, it'd be weird for a 12 year old to get Botox too.
Speaker 2:I mean, I used to live in LA, so props to that.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, it's just like I. I again, I. I said I thought we had a quarter of the market on the crazy parents, but, um, you know, it's just you. You hate to hear. I can't imagine going in and being like I want to elect to have Tommy John, so my 13 year old could throw two miles an hour faster.
Speaker 2:It's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's, it's, it is crazy.
Speaker 2:But I mean, I guess there's big money in sports, you know, especially in baseball, like if you think we're talking about major league baseball, I mean his, his was.
Speaker 1:I was just quote division seven.
Speaker 2:That's the goal is to make it to division seven.
Speaker 1:Uh, anyways, that it it's. It stinks, but luckily we have experts like Josh Dines to guide us on our uh, medical, uh journeys.
Speaker 2:Um, you had some, uh, some trivia a little trivia question for you from Madrid.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll probably get this wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Taylor Fritz, first American to make the semis in Madrid. Since what year?
Speaker 1:It was.
Speaker 2:You want some hints.
Speaker 1:No, I don't. I know this, andre102,. It's not him, though it's Robbie Ginepry in 2005. Holy cow, is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. You know what I was going to be like. If you can find out the name of the person, I'll give you an lollipop. But I guess look at what he got. Man. My hints were good too. It was going to be like it was still a hard court. James Blake was a notable person.
Speaker 1:At his wedding, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:You crushed it, you beat him in us open juniors to win the finals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were the same age growing up.
Speaker 1:Uh, Ginepra, you want to hear? If you want to hear a funny story, yeah, Okay. So, uh, 2005, Ginepra uh, I lose to him. I think for the first time in Indianapolis in the final, uh makes the semis of the U? S open.
Speaker 1:Uh, goes from like this this weird new athletic uh company, apparel company, signs him to a deal where he comes out in like sleeveless shirts and it's kind of different at the time. The company is called Under Armour and so Kevin Plank is like in his box and getting credentials from Robbie Ginepri at the US Open and it's like, okay, that's cool. He had and I'll get parts of this wrong, so, but the general sentiment is correct he had a massive bonus, like a million dollar bonus for if he finished top 15, which at the time of signing the contract I don't know that he was top 100. Right, so that's like a bonus that you never thought was really in play, and especially in that short amount of time. So we're doing a training block in Florida in 2005.
Speaker 1:So the year after he's coming off, semis in Madrid, it's probably I remember it sem Semis in US Open and he ended the year at 16 in the world. So one spot away from that bonus. Someone who was ahead of him, who I won't name, but had success on clay that year, gets popped for a doping test which he had tested positive at the French open. He was ahead of Robbie in the rankings. Robbie goes to $15 million bonus winner winner chicken dinner. Robbie comes into practice that morning in a very, very, very good mood. I bet he was, yeah, Good trivia question. I don't think I'd normally would have known, but Madrid obviously top of mind, as always. Thank you for listening to the Serve podcast. Always check out our library on YouTube, See ya.