Going Under: Anesthesia Answered with Dr. Brian Schmutzler
Going Under: Anesthesia Answered is a podcast with renowned physician and anesthesiologist Dr. Brian Schmutzler. Together with Award-Winning Co-Host and television journalist, Vahid Sadrzadeh, the podcast aims to answer not only your most pressing anesthesia questions but to provide the most up-to-date medical data available.
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Going Under: Anesthesia Answered with Dr. Brian Schmutzler
So You’re A Resident? Congrats, You’re Not An Expert
In the latest episode of Going Under: Anesthesia Answered, we dig into the Dunning-Kruger effect, why medicine breeds overconfidence, and how social media and news sites blur the line between trainee and expert.
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SPEAKER_00:Alright, I'm gonna let you in on something that's completely changed the way I practice. I've been using Butterfly probes for years. It's a portable ultrasound that plugs right into my compatible smartphone or tablet so I can start scanning at the bedside in seconds. If you use the older versions, or even if you're new to the handheld ultrasound game, let me tell you why this IQ3 is game-changing and really impressive. First off, having an ultrasound that literally fits in my pocket means I can move faster, whether it's vascular access, procedural guidance, or just getting real-time insights for my patients. And the tech and inside this tiny device is pretty incredible. Must be that advil that you took. We'll talk about that. The biplane imaging setting lets me see short and long access simultaneously, which is huge for procedural guidance and honestly a great tool for learners. The new needle out of plane preset even shifts the scan plane digitally, so I can see the needle tip sooner, which makes a real difference when precision matters. And the image quality, honestly, the IQ3 holds up against some of the high-end art call high-end cart-based systems I've used. That's impressive for something this portable. If you're looking for a device that supports your practice, I can't recommend the Butterfly IQ three enough. And right now they're running a special offer. You can get$750 off the latest IQ three. Check it out at ButterflyNetwork.com. And their their uh Black Friday sale may still be running.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's is continuing with the city. Which is a thousand dollars off right now. So you want to get on that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and you guys may notice sorry, Butterfly, I'm stealing your thunder. You may notice that I sound a little bit hoarse today. I've got a little bit of a cold going on. Had a little headache, and when I walked in the studio, um, I I took uh some ibuprofen, which I take sometimes for a headache, and um all that our illustrious host here had was chewable. I have a one-year-old ibuprofen. He won't even take those. Um and it now, yeah, you're not giving that to your one-year-old. Good try, though. Uh those are you. I'm an expert. Well, we'll get to that in a second. We'll get to that in a second. Vahid is an expert in chewing up Advil. Um, sorry, not branded, uh, ibuprofen. Um, but just just for the record, it tastes like eating a purple crayon.
SPEAKER_01:Hold on, let me see if I can see anything with my compromise vision. Junior Strength Advil, grape flavor.
SPEAKER_00:It tastes like a ibuprofen, I think. Purple crayon. Yeah. Purple crayon. Uh yeah. So today I I have a bit of a diatribe I have to go through today. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01:The show ba is called the MedPage Effect, not effect, effect. Uh-huh. When trainees become experts and experts become targets.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my. Wow. That's impressive. It is. I like that. So I know we talked before, and maybe you can rehash this a little bit. We talked before. I got into it a little bit with somebody on the med page because the person made a comment about how medical people shouldn't talk about things that they're not experts in online. And I I number one, I I don't I don't disagree as long as it's not something harmful. Now, if there's a big difference in opinion, I think you you can have your opinion based on your medical knowledge. Um, but also uh the problem was that she's a resident, and residents are not attendings, meaning they don't practice independently. So they're not experts in anything. Um and so so before we start, we should probably talk to it. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Is this called something?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's it called? It's called the Dunning Kruger effect. Okay, so tell me what that is. All right. So so this is great. This was um it was described in the 90s. So basically, what happens is really prevalent in in medicine in particular. Are these two two doctors? I don't know the history of it, honestly. We'll have to look it up. Yeah, Dunning Kruger. I I think I have a let me let me see if I can find it. But anyway, so the Dunning the Dunning Kruger effect, basically, the more you learn, the more you think you're an expert, right? So so this happens a lot with like first and second year medical students because you learn all this new knowledge and you're like, oh, I know everything about everything. And somebody walks in the room and you're like, oh, that limps because you have ewing sarcoma in your knee, which is so you give like a direct medical, you know, and so so so it's an xy axis, right? So on the x-axis is actual knowledge, and on the y-axis is perceived knowledge, okay? So, so what happens is over time you you accrue some knowledge, but you believe your perceived knowledge is way higher than your actual knowledge, and that's like up until probably the end of residency, you're on that upward slope. You think you know the more you learn, the more you think you know everything.
SPEAKER_01:And then as you become that's just come that's just called a false sense of security.
SPEAKER_00:It's called hubris, right? So as you come to the end of residency and you start practicing on your own, you come down into what's called the the pit of despair, where you realize that you don't know enough, right? You realize there's things you don't know, you don't know. You know what I'm saying? And so you come to this pit of despair. And then over the course of time, you actually, with real-world experience, learn what you actually do know and what you don't know, and then your your perceived knowledge matches your actual knowledge. That's called the Dunning Krueger effect.
SPEAKER_01:Do you go ahead? I don't want to say this to offend anybody, but I'm just curious. Yeah, let's hear it. Does this happen more with medical students than any other profession? Yep.
SPEAKER_00:So there's may maybe accounting or or you know, like Yeah, but I mean, so accounting doesn't change, right? So we've talked about this before. The amount of medical knowledge, when I was a medical student, they used to say doubled every year. You know what they say now? It doubles every 50 days. So it's not like in accounting, the amount of accounting knowledge doubles every 50 days, right? So I think it's worse in medicine because you learn so much so fast, and you're expected to be an expert, right? So you go into your rounds, even as a medical student, and they're like, the attending says, Well, what do you think this patient has? And you have to kind of guess almost, right? But you're expected to present that as I have the knowledge. I a hundred percent have the knowledge, and you don't, right? You don't a lot of times you don't know. So so what I would say, and let's go through training and then I'll tell you about what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01:I wish we were, I wish, I wish we could call Reggie right now, because this would be like the equivalent to somebody who is taking their C7 and coming out of a business school, accounting school, going into the stock market thinking, I'm an expert. Oh, I know everything. Yeah, I'm an expert. Billions of dollars. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Yeah, I think it happens in every profession, but I think it's worse in medicine because of the because the expectation that you know everything, right? Your attendings expect that you know everything. So, so the way the way medical training works. So you do four years of undergrad. Typically, people do four years of undergrad. There's some combined programs, but just the generalities. Four years of undergrad, typically you have to get some sort of science degree and you take the MCAT. If you do well on that, you do well. MCAT, medical college admission test. If you do well on that, you do well on your your schooling, your classes, and all that sort of stuff. Then you go to medical school. That's four years. Okay. First two years typically are pretty much basic science.
SPEAKER_01:How much more difficult is it to get into medical school than the university? Like let's say Notre Dame, right? Or Stanford.
SPEAKER_00:An undergrad? Is that what you're talking about? Yes. So so are you you're saying how much harder is it to get into a medical school than it is to be?
SPEAKER_01:What percentage of students who are in medical programs in college maybe get accepted or don't get accepted to go? It's low. It's low.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's under 10%. They get in. Yeah. Okay. So it's, you know, and some some are like IU is a big medical school. It's a state school. It's easier to get into IU, especially for some from the state of Indiana, which is where I went, than it is to get into Harvard or Yale or Columbia or something, right? But I think overall it's about a little less than 10%. Okay, fine. Four years of medical school. Everybody does the same thing for the most part. Two years of medical science knowledge. So you're sitting in a classroom learning. You learn a little bit of how to do it. So during med school. Yep. First two years of medical school, you know, primarily. And it's changed some. It used to be strictly. Like we sat literally sat in a classroom from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. five days a week for two years. That's literally what we did. Now they incorporate more like seeing patients. Lab stuff and whatever. You do some more stuff. So anyway, but in general, medical knowledge the first two years, then you do your rotations, okay? And those are where you actually go see patients. But you're a medical student, so you don't have any really you don't have any control over anything and you don't have any responsibilities. So you're still probably 24 years old. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So if you go two years of medical, yeah, you're 24, 25, yeah. And just getting into making rounds and being a medical student. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And so you're you're you're not even a resident yet. Correct. You're just trying to know that get the knowledge so that you can spit it back at the attendings. You're trying to learn disease processes in a patient, right? So it's fine. I mean, I and I think we're gonna we're working on getting on another podcast that has a much bigger following than mine, where I think we're probably gonna talk a lot about how the medical education system is corrupt and how it works. So I won't get fully into that. But anyway, okay, so you finish medical school, then you go into residency. So your first year of residency is called your intern year. So that year you that's when you get matched. Yep. And we're seeing a lot of like TikToks and it's kind of the match, right? The match is in March, typically. There's some other again, there's variability, but typically it's in March, it's um uh St. Patrick's Day. You match in for the next year. So you learn in March where you're going in July.
SPEAKER_01:So it's like being a senior basically your fourth year of medical school, and then find out where you go for training.
SPEAKER_00:And that's not you don't control that really. Yeah, so again, the corruption of the medical education system, but um you rank schools and programs, and they rank you, and then a fancy computer mixes them all up and tells you where you're going. This is not human? Supposedly not. Okay. We'll talk about it on the next podcast. Not the next podcast. I'm I'm saving this one for the bigger podcast because I have a whole lot of issue with medical training. Okay. So now you do your intern year. Typically, what people do is a lot of just like general stuff in their intern year. You do ER, you do internal medicine, most specialties. And you're 26 at this point. 26, yeah. So you're just you're you're the low man on the totem pole. You do what we call scut work, where you walk around and you like you you write the labs for the patients, or you go early in the morning and pre-round where you see the patients before everybody else, so that you can explain the patients to the upper level residents in the attendings. Okay. But again, you are you are supervised. There is a senior resident, and then there's also an attending. You are supervised. You are not making these decisions in a vacuum. Okay. So then you finish your intern year and you go into whatever your specialty is. For me, it was anesthesia, three years of anesthesia in the operating room. Again, supervised until the last day that I walked out of that residency. I was not the one responsible for that patient fully, supervised by an attending. Even an AA is supervised. AAs are, yeah. C RNAs are necessarily, but but so are, let's say, perhaps psychiatry residents. They are also supervised until that very last moment they walk out of residency. So they may And there's a reason for that. Correct. It's training, it's like an apprenticeship. It's like if you're going to be a plumber, right? They don't send you out as a plumber into a house in Granger and say, go fix the toilet. No, they bring you out with somebody else. You learn how to do it.
SPEAKER_01:And then maybe a couple of times, if it's not a disaster, you do a couple.
SPEAKER_00:And that doesn't make you an expert plumber. No, it does not. And it also so the biggest thing that residents don't know they don't know, it's two things. One, they don't know when to ask for help. And two, they don't know how they will react when there's not somebody to call. 100%. Those are the two biggest issues that you have, and that that takes three to five years, because I've been through it. It takes three to five years to get out of your residency and get into doing your specialty and realize that you're comfortable doing anything.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, it's the same with everything, right? True. I mean, I get asked all the time by newer reporters. Yeah, how do you know how to ad lib? Yeah. Experience. Yeah. It's an art. I've done this probably more hours than you've been definitely more hours than you've spent since high school. Been alive. Right. Been alive. I mean, I've I've been doing this 25 years. If I don't know how to ad lib by now, you know, then I need to pick another profession.
SPEAKER_00:There's a great book. Um uh it's Malcolm Gladwell, and I can't remember which one I've read all the time. Yeah, the 10,000 hours. 10,000 hours, right. That's why the Beatles were great. That's why the Microsoft guys were great, 10,000 hours, and they got 10,000 hours before anybody else got 10,000 hours. And I'm telling you, I know how to use a camera.
SPEAKER_01:I've spent thousands and thousands of hours. That doesn't necessarily mean that I can go on stage and discuss it like I'm an expert because guess what? I don't know jack squat about Nikon cameras or whatever, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like it doesn't mean you don't know the physics of the optics or whatever, right?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, right, but unless I studied that. But you're not an expert. Correct. Right. You know, like it there's a difference, and I see like, but the confidence level of these residents must be so sky high. Yeah. So okay, so let's get it.
SPEAKER_00:Let's get the case.
SPEAKER_01:Let's get into the case. Let's get into what happened.
SPEAKER_00:Not just the case. So I I have a fundamental problem because I after I've had these two encounters on MedPage today, I've started digging through their stuff. I have a fundamental problem with the way that they um that they present their experts. Because if you dig into their actual the people who are on MedPage today, most of them are residents.
SPEAKER_01:And all of the articles say expert weighs in on this. Yeah. Expert weighs in on this. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:That doesn't make you an expert. No, being a resident does not make you an expert. Being even the last day of residency, you may have the medical knowledge, but that does not make you an expert in anything. You're not an expert in anything. And so, so I dug into MedPage. It frustrates me. And and so I I just honestly, I just I went to chat chat GPT to get the history of MedPage. So I guess it was started by a company and then they got bought out by a bigger company. And over time they've started again. This is what this is what Med uh what uh ChatGPT says. So this is not my own personal opinion. Chat GPT says that they have now started paying less and have sort of gotten a reputation of um not necessarily being the top dog when it comes to medical news. And so there are fewer attendings like me who are experts willing to come on a page that presents number one, presents residents as experts, and number two, um it doesn't pay well, right? Because if if we take time and energy to do these things, you know, I often get paid for consulting work.
SPEAKER_01:So well, I want to go back to the the the being a social media influencer thing because that I think that really bothers me. Number one.
SPEAKER_00:What part of it?
SPEAKER_01:Well, all of it. You know I think just because you're a social media influencer doesn't mean you're an expert and vice versa. Correct. Right? Here is where I believe social media thrives. Yeah. Is when A, you're an expert at something. First. First, then you're trying to be a social media star. I get it. There's a lot of people out there that are trying to make, you know, connections, they're trying to, you know, get uh brand deals, they're trying to get a lot of this stuff, right? And it's extra income or it's partnerships or it's support.
SPEAKER_00:Which is a med page thing, not to interrupt your point, but that's a med page thing too. At least what ChatGPT says is they're driven more by ad revenue than they are by actual medical knowledge. That's again, I'm not giving you my opinion necessarily because I haven't dug into it deep enough, but at least reading the Chat GPT discussion of it.
SPEAKER_01:You are, you were and are, have been an anesthesiologist. Yeah, for 12 years or something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You're an expert in that field. Yeah. And I have a PhD in neuropharmacology. So I'm a PhD expert in pain processing.
SPEAKER_01:Then you said, hey, social media, we should go out there and spread the word about medical and be goofy, but yeah. Right. Yeah. And and just walk in hallways and apparently. Whatever. But honestly, when you are offering your opinion, it is an expert opinion first, then a social media guy. Yeah. That's where I think a lot of this goes wrong. Yep. That's where I think the starting point is. Because I'm telling you right now, from my point of view, I cover football for a living. I cover college football for a living. Yeah. And if somebody who was not even working, right, there's a lot of college students. There's a lot of college students that are allowed into the media sessions and ask questions. Yeah. But if you went and wrote an article and said, I'm an expert in this, and this is completely untrue, and I don't think this head coach should be doing this, and I don't think this player should be doing this, nobody would take that seriously. And nobody would read it. Right, correct. Because you're not an expert.
SPEAKER_00:But but if they said uh if they said sort of things like um, you know, I don't know how they worded it on the page, I can't remember exactly, but they're like, you know, the the um journal journalist, the college student says, I'm such and such journalist for and then whatever, the observer, right? Right. Okay. So that if somebody doesn't know what the observer is, and a lot of people don't know, like if you're not here in South Bend, the observer is is the And they go into like let's say the opposing locker room and ask questions and whatever. Exactly, yeah. The observer is the is the college paper for the University of Notre Dame. If and I I find this the equivalent because a lot of people don't know that medical residents are not practicing independently, right? So they they don't make a point of I'm a r I'm a tr I'm a trainee. I am not an attending, I'm a trainee.
SPEAKER_01:But also, where where are there like hospital systems and all of this that pay their bills, right? Like Well, that's that's a great question. So I mean, yeah, that's the first place I look, right? Yeah is okay, you're making these comments. Yeah. Are you getting support from over your program? Program director?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. The the person who who signs off that you are, I mean, so my opinion would be if you're putting yourself out as an expert as a resident. Now, there is a caveat to that. You are an expert in being a resident. You're also an expert in what medical training is right now. So if you put out a video that says, I'm an I'm a resident, and this is what it's like being a resident, and I don't think this is fair because of X, Y, and Z, or I don't like this, or I like This is who I've seen.
SPEAKER_01:This is who I've come in contact with.
SPEAKER_00:You are an expert because you're in the middle of it, right? There is no one who is more of an expert on being a resident than somebody who is a resident at that exact moment. I also but but yeah, but you put yourself out as an expert. I'm hesitant as a program director, and I'm not a program director, but I'm hesitant as a program director to pass you because again, I think you're gonna come out into practice and think you know everything, and you're gonna make mistakes because of the hubris.
SPEAKER_01:I I also I I'm I'm hesitant to put expert in front of things because to me it's like I'm going to New York sitting and getting the world's best coffee. Yeah. Alright. Elf. Congratulations. If you have to put best in front of something, yeah, I don't know if it's gonna be the best. Right. People who normally are experts in things don't have to say they're experts in things. They're recognized as experts. Correct. They don't have to put that in front of their title or whatever. Right. So that being said, that being said, this page has put out controversial videos in response, in rebuttal to other videos.
SPEAKER_00:Other videos.
SPEAKER_01:So they're stitching other videos online.
SPEAKER_00:Or or they're talking about political things. And again, I'm not getting into the politics of any of this. Which is a dangerous place to go, by the way. Right on a on a medical med page, right?
SPEAKER_01:Now we have gotten slightly political, but we're not we're not going all in on some ethos of the pop political spectrum.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and and so uh again, there's there's a lot of these people here who are uh masters in public health. I believe there's a place for public health, but public health is not a hard science, it's a soft science like psychology and sociology. Okay, so being a being in public health, those people are going to lean to think about think about Anthony Fauci, right? I was about to just say Anthony. I was just about to say Anthony Fuck. He's a public, he's a public health guy. So everything is the biggest viral disaster in the world, right? And he said it multiple times. And I'm not talking about COVID, I'm talking about Ebola, I'm talking about HIV, I'm talking about all the stuff that he did through the 50 years that he was there. Everything was the world is coming to an end. That's what public health people do. And you need that voice. I get it, but don't don't hold yourself up as a as a as an actual scientist and not a social scientist.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and then uh I'm just gonna, you know, if if Anthony Fauci dipped his feet into the same waters that this female medical resident dipped her toes into the ones they have on their residence, yeah. Why? Why, if you're a resident, your name, by the way, yeah, is going to be attached to that forever. Forever. Exactly. Forever. Exactly. Jobs will see that. Yep. I'm not talking about jobs. When you go yeah, when you go apply for a job, yeah, exactly. Will see that. Yes. Because they will know. I don't know why you would die on that hill, but that that's just me.
SPEAKER_00:And then what's the other frustrating part, and it's again, it's not just the interactions I've had. I've read other comments. Oftentimes, those residents, maybe because they're young, I don't know, but they they respond in a very childish way, right? They can't have a conversation on the page. And I'm not, again, I'm not just talking about the interactions I've had, I've read through other of them on there. And it's a childish retort, and then they just turn the comments off. I mean, if you can't have a debate, why are you putting if you're putting yourself up as an expert, why aren't you having a debate? If you challenge me on anything that I claim that I'm an expert on, I'm gonna debate you to the nth degree because I know more about it than you do. And if you're gonna come at me with dumb remarks, I'm gonna say that's a dumb remark, and let me tell you why. Right. You're trying to educate, exactly. Med page today, their whole mission is medical education for why are they giving these people a platform for views?
SPEAKER_01:It must be, yeah, ad revenue. I don't know. It's just it I think it it has turned so divisive, and everything is about a political stance, but when you're in medicine, right? Like it it doesn't necessarily give you the right to speak on that platform. But I also want to know why, a her hospital system is okay with it, her director. That's a great question. And B, do they what is the future of MedPage? What is the I don't know, what are the ultimate goals of MedPage?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. I I mean I I I think that they skew very far one way, which again, that's kind of what public health is. I I if you want to skew that way, fine, but I don't think you can put yourself up as a non-biased medical page, right? I mean, they they every article you see on there is very much anti what's currently happening in the medical field.
SPEAKER_01:So sh this wasn't the first time she's commented on something controversial like this, but she is also you have seen other physicians retort online. Yes. Yes. So again, it's it's the if you scolded experts for discussing a case where expertise is required again, the inversion of reality calling upon the Dunning Kruger effect. Dunning Kruger, baby. It's just amazing to me. I mean, you you you kind of have to know.
SPEAKER_00:Uh you have to know what you don't know.
SPEAKER_01:We're not gonna we're not gonna talk about what it was if you want to know well, just look up MedPage. Just look up MedPage and you'll see it. It's one of the reels on there. Yeah. Um and she took the video from somebody else. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and it's not even the video. I mean, the the this discussion has nothing to do with that video, whether whether you think that she's right or wrong, whether you think the person who put the original video out is right or wrong, I I'm not even commenting on that, right? My problem is this whole putting yourself as an expert, and then the minute and a half afterwards talking about how this particular person is an expert in blah blah blah blah blah. Do you think this is a growing trend though? Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. And I and I would caution, again, we have students, residents, CRNA students, anesthesia residents, even even early attendings. I would caution anybody do not put something out there that says that you're an expert unless you're actually an expert in that, right? Here's why I like social media in this case.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Call me crazy for this. I think social media can expose a lot of frauds. Oh, hundred percent fakes. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And or Huber. Huber, right. I'm not calling him frauds. I mean, she she's not a and and these these all of these people on MedPage, they're not like, you know, again, plumbers going out there saying I'm a doctor.
SPEAKER_01:But just to get some views, you're going to put something out there.
SPEAKER_00:Hubris, it's hubris. And I I generally think they think that they're correct. And they think that they're experts. That's the Dunning Krueger effect.
SPEAKER_01:They have they if you're using your God-given brain, you would say to yourself, Hey, I want to get somebody else on who can talk about this subject. Yep. I don't play tackle football for a living. Yeah, it's true. You think I'm out there analyzing X's and O's? No. No, yeah. No, I've been around football my entire life. Right. I've been around coaches and players. Does that make me an expert at the X's and O's? Nope. No. You know who was amazing at that though, and still is?
SPEAKER_00:Tony Romo. He's pretty good. He calls every play before it happens. I swear. He knows.
SPEAKER_01:Tom Brady needs to learn a little something.
SPEAKER_00:So I think Tom was very instinctual and could just read a defense and throw it. I think Tony Romo studied and knew everything that was going to happen. He just couldn't get it from his head to his hands. I think MJ was very instinctual too. I do too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know, I mean, just you just had that instinct. But in terms of do I bring experts onto my show? Yes. All the time. And that gives the show credibility. Not me sitting up there being like, I mean, why didn't CJ Carr throw it on third down? I don't know. Yeah. I'm not their their coach.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not in the room with them. I don't know. So and it they also, what really, really frustrates me as well is turning off the comments. Because if you're gonna put yourself out there as a next check that, we we we have to have a debate. We have to have a conversation. You don't you don't go up on your show and say, This is what I think, and then somebody comes on and says, Well, I think differently, and you put your hand over their mouth and walk them off the stage. I literally just did this yesterday.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I posted a play. Yeah. I took the video. Oh, yeah, yeah. You asked, yeah, yeah, yeah. I took the video. You think this was intentional? I had I had the press conference, post game press conference. There was a cheap shot on Jeremiah Love. Yeah. Look at it looked like a cheap. I did not watch it in real time. I watched the replay. I highlighted it. I circled it. Yeah. I posted it and I said What do you think? He fell on the player because Jeremiah Love said himself. Yeah. He fell on me. So I said in quotations, fell on. From this player, what do you think? Yeah. I'm gonna let people weigh in. Yep. I had Jeremiah loved dad. Did he? But he said he liked re he didn't he didn't comment, but he reposted a comment from somebody that said it was kind of a cheap shot, whatever. Yeah. Okay, I'm not gonna sit here and judge and be an expert on it. I'll let people weigh in.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:If you're gonna go there and and go there, if you're gonna go online and go there in such a hotly debated, it just to me, to me, it looks like clickbait.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And it's weak. I mean, I'll tell you, it's weak. If you're not gonna have debate, I mean this, and this is, you know, say what you want about you know Charlie Kirk, but that's what he wanted was debate, right? I would love to debate. Come on and tell me you're wrong. That's what I mean, people do that on my socials, you know. It's fine. Let's debate. So although I'm never wrong when I walk down a hallway with a jacket on.
SPEAKER_01:I guess especially when it's heated. That's right. Uh medicine works because we honor the hierarchy of training.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and again, there's lots of problems with medical education, but you as a trainee do not understand real medicine. It takes time.
SPEAKER_01:It really does. I mean, I want to invite her onto the podcast and just talk about it. Honestly, because you know what I'd be happy to have the debate. That's exactly what I'm saying. If this is an open-ended conversation and not a closed conversation of during the comments exactly, yeah. Why post it?
SPEAKER_00:And I I don't even have a strong opinion about the original video, right? Like, I I'm not an expert in that. I'm not because people aren't agreeing with you, right? Exactly. That's my problem. And so let's, I mean, yeah, let's have a debate. I I disagree because of this, but I might agree because of this. Convince me. I've been on social media for a long time.
SPEAKER_01:Too long, though, right? My space. Too long. People are going to for our younger crowd.
SPEAKER_00:MySpace was like the prequel to Facebook. Correct.
SPEAKER_01:The Facebook. The Facebook. People. The Google. People, yes, on social media sometimes will take a hardline stance and just go all in. And I understand there are people out there that have commented on our show. Uh-huh. 100%. That I don't like it. I don't like it. Fine. You have an opinion. You have a right to an opinion. Yep. Let's hear it. Okay. I don't have to like it. I don't have to agree. I don't have to agree. But if you're not going to hear my side of it and just close it off and you're going to close off comments, what that's not worth it to me. Because you're just you're just posting it because you want to get the views. Yep. And you don't want to have the debate.
SPEAKER_00:And it's a different thing if it's a personal page, right? So again, if it's if it's my personal page, I can do whatever I want. But if you're holding yourself up Medpage today as, you know, a premier, you know, you know, medical news, um, social media platform, you're putting it out on TikTok and Facebook and Instagram, and then you shut the comments down, that's just weak sauce. That's weak. And it just shows that either you don't truly believe what you're saying or you're not willing to debate. Either way, it's just weak. You're you're you are no longer, I can no longer hold you up as anything other than clickbait. You're no better than you know. All the other public bright bart or whatever, right? Like, I mean, you're no better than them. So why would I listen to you? Right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, confidence without experience is noise. Yep. Sure is. How about that for a quote? Yeah. To uh put a bow on it. Yeah. This was a good conversation. Yeah, very. I was I was heated about this one. No, and and I think you should be. I mean, there there are things that I think are acceptable, and I think things that as an expert in your field, as somebody who's gone through the training, who has put the thousands and thousands of hours alone with patience. Right, right. Running your own business, right? Guiding other people. Exactly, yeah. You have a right to speak on something because you've gone through it. Correct. I think anything else is just if you're not gonna go about it the right way, then then why do it? Yeah, you know, yeah. If you're just trying to get news.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, and why doesn't MedPage put on attending? I mean, that's again, I I'm calling MedPage out. Do something, be better. You want to hold yourself up. Hey, we'll take anybody from MedPage too on the on the show. Be better.
SPEAKER_01:Come tell me why I'm wrong. Yeah, but be better. All right. So this has been going under Anesthesia Answered with Dr. Brian Schmutzer. I'm Vahid Sadarzadi. We're brought to you by the Butterfly Network. And we'll see you in the next one. See you later.
