What Happens When A Fraternity Chooses Humility Over Power

A Grand Master drops two documents and suddenly everyone is asking the same question: what actually changes today, and what becomes lasting law tomorrow? We sit down with Right Worshipful Deputy Grand Master Rick Wendling to unpack the real difference between a Grand Master’s ruling and decision versus a directive, why those tools matter inside the Grand Lodge of Florida, and how recent actions aim to restore order, correct records, and recommit the Craft to fair and impartial Masonic trials.

Then we get personal. Rick talks about family, losing both parents, and how brotherhood isn’t a slogan when life hits hard. We connect those experiences to leadership: why bickering, gossip, and backchannel drama poison lodges, why settling issues brother to brother beats swinging straight to charges, and why humility is a discipline you choose every day, especially when you wear a collar.

We also dig into the future: the updated mentoring program and the expanded GL217 mentors manual, engaging younger Masons who want meaning and real friendships, and bringing Freemasonry into the 21st century with better communication, smarter outreach, and a more welcoming public presence. Rick shares a practical plan to cut the cost of Grand Master official visits by shifting toward town hall-style gatherings that focus on listening, unity, and helping blue lodges succeed.

If you care about Florida Freemasonry, Masonic leadership, lodge culture, mentorship, and the long game of membership growth, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a brother who needs it, and leave a review. What’s the single change you want to see in your lodge this year?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:42

All right.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Welcome back to On the Low Podcast. How are you, brother? I am doing fantastic, Christopher G. Burns, and we are joined today by none other than the great, the legendary, right worshipful Rick Wendling. Brother, how are you? What's going on, guys, and brothers? What's up? All right. It's gonna be exciting, man. I'm looking forward to this. Looks like he's in his mobile command center today. Yeah. Mobile command center. You know, no, no joke. My dad actually bought an RV back in the day and he wrote it off on the business as a mobile command center. Nice. Like, not even kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

It's actually clever. Yeah. So we haven't had as esteemed a guest as you on in quite a while on the podcast. Thank you for joining us. Yeah, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

My pleasure. Yes. I uh and you know, I kind of this just happened. There's some breaking news, and we we tend to record like months before our stuff gets released. But this just happened last week, and I think we can get this podcast out relatively quickly. We had ruling and decision number one, and then uh yesterday I think we uh we got another one. We got rule uh directive number two. So my first question is what's the difference between a ruling and decision and a directive?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Well, a ruling and decision is the Grand Master's interpretation of the Constitution and or the digest, and that goes for vote at Grand Lodge under the jurisprudence report.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

Okay. And a directive is kind of like an executive order. So basically, what this ruling and decision one did is basically what this did is it totally nulled and voided that that stuff that happened back in 2024 and completely restored everybody.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

As a matter of fact, if you scroll down, trials that were associated with the interpretation of the digests under that ruling decision that happened regarding chapter 44, um 238, taking testimony, all that stuff is a regular almost of trials, convictions, and sentences, including suspensions, expulsions, reprimands, and other penalties that were based on whole or in part upon the overturned ruling and decision number three, interpreting regulation 46.2 on a hereby declared irregular null and void, as you said. And basically no other trials can be had about that. And they directed the grand secretary to immediately notify every particular lodge and affected brother, expunge all or correct all grand lodge and lodge records accordingly, and you should current news cards to the restored brothers upon the.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

The one that I actually like the most is that point number five every brother affected by any such trial or sentence is hereby restored to full and good standing in his particular lodge and in this grand jurisdiction effective immediately, with all rights, privileges, and membership status status reinstated as though the proceedings had never occurred. The way this reads, I love the way that this reads because it's like we're fixing something and we're going to fix it with aggression. The way this thing reads is powerful. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

He's definitely came out swinging with ruling a decision number one.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

He did, man. Most worshipful vest is a baller. That guy is a gangster. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

You know what's funny is like I when he was running the very first time, he came to my I happen to be the president of the Master Nase Association. So I had to coordinate with him to give a speech his speech. And I was like, I'd never seen the guy smile as much as he smiled the whole time. I don't know if he's actually having fun or if he's got a condition, but he smiles a lot. And uh and he doesn't talk much. Like I never heard from him after that.

SPEAKER_04 4:14

And me and meanwhile, you've got most worshipful tally that I think he has the same face every time I've ever spoken to him and talked to him. It's just like he is just like the same face no matter what, even in pictures, it's just that face.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, so this is a good thing, I think. Ruling it, and then we've got uh just came out directive number two, which is basically just reaffirming everything that was said that we need to hold our trials properly and according to our methodology. And this directive number two is issued to reinforce our collective commitment to truth, justice, and the preservation of harmony within the craft and the American way. And faithful observance of the digest will afford the answers to practically all questions that may arise in the conduct of Sonic Affairs. Hundred percent couldn't agree more. Having been through a trial, I could see how if it was followed properly and everyone did things the way they were supposed to, a lot of things would have been resolved very quickly. Um so I don't know why the number two came out because number one was pretty clear and where he stood on this. That's why I was asking you uh right worshipful why or what it what's the difference between a directive and ruling a decision. I say maybe there's some legislative reason that he needed to do it as a directive instead of a ruling and decision.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Right. A ruling and decision is the grandmaster's interpretation of the digest. Well, anyway, the ruling and decision gets voted on the craft. The constitution. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

And then it becomes Yeah. And then it becomes part of our law after the craft.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Correct, right? Correct. Where a directive ends when that when the new grandmaster gets installed. So it's only good for his year. A directive is. Ruling and decision, once it's approved by the craft, it becomes law.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Okay, so we're going to be voting on ruling and decision one at next Grand Lodge, correct?

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yes, because it's his interpretation of the Constitution.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

And the directive is kind of just an executive order of hey, during my year, this is how I want things to operate.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Correct. And most worshipful vest and I am pretty sure the rest of the Grand Lodge line are all on the same mindset where if anybody needs to get into our penal affairs, we need fair and impartial trials. And that's what we're striving for.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I agree with that. Yes. Having been through the opposite of that, I can tell you it's the pillar of Freemasonry, really. To accuse a brother is a pretty serious thing. And uh, we gotta follow all the steps and the rules to make sure that it's a fair process. And then everybody be happy with the outcome. I mean, wait, I take that back.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

Everyone will respect the outcome. Correct. If there's one thing I've learned about Masons is you are never going to make 100% of them happy. It's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

What we can ask them all now. I mean, whatever you think you've been through, I'm sure that this uh brother right here has been through 10 times that. Well, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

I'd I would here's the thing. I I know I've only been a Mason for about two and a half years, master Mason for about two and a half years. So I am fully aware, like everything that I've seen, y'all guys have probably seen 10 times, if not 20 times.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

I think we can all agree that we all went through a very, what is the word? Unprecedented. A very unprecedented time in Freemasonry together. Yeah. Yeah. So that was probably new for all of us. And we all kind of went through that together.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

And I will tell you someone one of the um one of the wise counsel that I got when I started getting in the chairs and I started at junior steward in my lodge, was the higher you get on masonry, the darker it gets. Because you start hearing everything. Yeah. And that's fact. That's a fact. That is a fact. Because you got well, I'd like that you don't know yet, but Chris, you're a past master of a lodge. So you know when you start getting up there, you're dealing as a master, you're dealing with different things that you would never thought you would have to deal with as a brother. And Matt, I mean you sort of get thrown into the fire.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Look, uh, I I told Chris uh with all the stuff that all the stuff I've experienced in Masonry, it's like I'm trying to speedrun masonry. That's what I'm trying to do. That's a bad idea. Don't do that. Yeah, look, I'm I'm running for Grandmaster next year. I'm just kidding. I'm not going to do that. You gotta knock that uh West out in your life. Wait a second, what's it there? That's it, Rick. I'm coming for you.

unknown 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Oh, you got to do that.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Okay. You know, like I said before, our digest allows any brother to run for any position. And hey, you know what? If it's they think they can do a better job, go for it.

SPEAKER_04 8:41

But let me tell you that actually brings up a question. So running for grand line, do you have to be a pass master to run for grand line, or is it just a good thing that to be a pass master? It's required, I believe. That one's required. Because I notice pretty much everyone who's ran for grand line that I've I've witnessed except for one person, has been at least a right worshipful. And I know in order to be a DDGM, you have to be a pass master. Right. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

For a DDGM.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Well, that being said, that's all behind us now. And we're looking forward to a new day. It's a new year in Freemasonry. We have a new age upon us. Our country is in turmoil, but our our district, our jurisdiction of Florida, does not appear to be in turmoil. So I'm really proud to be part of an organization that is not eating itself alive as the rest of the world appears to be. And so with that, I would love to. I've always wanted to know more about you. And if you're okay with it, I'd love to find out a little bit about where you come from and what made you as a man and what makes you tick. You ready for that? Go for it.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

I mean, seriously, like let's start with like that was the most hesitant agreement I think I've ever seen in my life.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

It was one of those like, oh tell us first of all about your family. Like, where do you come from? Do you have a big family? Did you have a lot of brothers and sisters growing up? What was family life like for you as a kid into young adulthood?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Well, um, don't hold this against me, but I was born in New Jersey, but I moved down here at a very young age, so I consider myself a Floridian. Yeah, I see Matt shaking his head. But uh I have three sisters, two sisters, a stepsister, and a stepbrother. They all live in Florida now. Unfortunately, I lost my parents. Lost my dad in 2014 and my mom in 2020. That was dad was a difficult life. He was my best friend. We relied on each other a lot. And I will tell you, if it wasn't for this fraternity and uh three brothers in my lodge, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you guys today.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Oh, I believe it's my mother passed weeks before I was installed as the master of my lodge, like two weeks I think before it. And then we lost Rusty Glenn Denning like days after my mom.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

And my dad was already passed. So I know what if I know what you're talking about. There's a and Matt is younger than us, so he's not there yet. But when it happens, you feel kind of untethered to the world without your parents alive, right? What the heck is my place in this world now? You don't have someone to call to brag about something you did to tell you good job anymore. You know, you always had your whole life.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yep. Absolutely. You know, it's it's definitely life-changing, and I've learned a lot since. And still learning every day how to deal with it. You know, they say time makes it easier, but I don't think time makes it easier. No. You just learn how to deal with it. I think you just learn how to yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

You learn you real you realize other people don't really care about that pain, so you kind of learn how to put it away.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

You know, honestly, that was probably the the biggest uh shock to me. Uh because my dad passed away in 2009. He was 47 years old. Oh no, and so whenever yeah, and so here here's the thing, like I'm about to be 40 next month. So and like that that kind of messes with your mind a little bit. Like it's one thing, and it's it's all sad and tragic. So I'm not trying to say otherwise, but like it's one thing if you lose your parents whenever you're 60, you know, or you're 50 or something along those lines, right? Like the natural regression. Right, you know, so like that they're they're older up in age, right? And it's it's more so expected at that time. But losing your dad when he's 47, and I was 20 or 21 at the time, something like that. It was just one of those kind of things where it's like, wow. Like, you know, so and even looking at it now, again, I'm about to be 40. I'm only seven years away from essentially beating my dad's high score of you know how many years I've been on this planet. So it's it's kind of a weird thing to look at. And now I've got a four-year-old daughter, and I've got to contend with that of man, if I if my life mirrors my dad's, then I don't have that much time left, right? Which was kind of like the whole process of the the room of reflection. You know, what I took out of that was you have a finite amount of time on this earth. What are you doing with it while you have it?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I think this is a core bit of Freemasonry's teachings, to be honest with you. I mean, that whole third degree that we go through is of remembering that exact lesson, I think. Um and you know, some of the best symbols got removed, like the coffin and the uh the skull and bones. These are things that are supposed to remind us of that lesson. Like, hey, you don't have time to be a jerk or you know, an alcoholic. Like you've got to get stuff done because that that coffin's coming for you. But I guess that was scary to outside people, so in Florida we had to remove it from our ritual work. But I think it's a really important lesson in Freemasonry.

SPEAKER_04 13:22

So, Rick, I mean you you talked about how masonry helped you through that that hard time, uh, which is great that you that you had that there, that you had those brothers to lean on. But what made you join Masonry to begin with? Well, that's kind of a funny story.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Kind of a funny story.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I was a firefighter. I'm a retired firefighter now, and we had an open house. And it so happened to be one of my roommates was a paramedic at the ambulance company, and he was assigned to be there representing the ambulance company in our county, and he was a D Malay, and they were doing the child ID program at the fire station, and it was a lodge that I joined, and so happened to be the brother that was there was a firefighter from Hillsborough County. So they said, Hey, you ever thought about joining a Freemasonry? And of course, Crescent was. What's that? And he told me about it, and I'm like, sure. So actually, all four of us from my from the house, we all joined, and I was back 15, 16 years ago. I can think my ring. Uh one moved to California and the other one, he's sort of involved. He's an executive with the ambulance company now, so he doesn't have too much time. And um yeah, not to mention 2013 was a bad year because my dad passed away in 2014. But 2013, one of my roommates who was a Mason, he uh or is in the process of becoming a Mason, should I say. We made an honorary uh friend of the lodge. He was a paramedic. He was on his way home from training and a van pulled out in front of his motorcycle, and tragically, he succumbed to his injuries. Young man? Yes, very young, in his early 30s.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Oh boy. So you've you've been, you're now in the fraternity for I think you said 15 years-ish. 15. Somewhere around there. And you're you're retired, you're no longer a fireman, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Correct. No longer a firefighter. When my dad passed away, I guess at 2013 was a real rough year. Um, one of my best friends on May 29th passed away from a brain aneurysm. He worked for the ambulance company, and then nine days later, my roommate was killed in the motorcycle accident. And then subsequently, six months later, my dad passed. So it was like bam, bam, bam. Golly. Yeah. And being in the fire service, talk about there's things uh I wish I could unsee.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

I can only imagine. So you know I mean, people that are firemen are looked at as heroes, and you also get pretty cool calendars if you have abs. What else goes on in the firemen? Like because I honestly I only know what I see from the movies, and it looks like firefighters are super close-knit group of people because you spend a lot of time waiting together, right? And you kind of like interfere.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

They're our second family. I mean, we're we're on 20 the shift I was on, I was on 24 hours off 48 hours. So every third day, you know, I'm spending with these guys, and our lives depend on each other. So they're our second family.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

So you were ready for Freemasonry. You already knew how to handle that brotherhood, living with different kinds of men, working together.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah, but lessons living with two other guys in the firehouse. We get to know each other, get to know each other's personalities. Freemasonry, we got 26,000 different personalities.

SPEAKER_04 16:35

So it's a little different, but I will t I will tell you though, Chris, you just gave me a fantastic idea of let's take get one of those like firehouse or fireman calendars and just Photoshop all the grand line heads on the different bodies, and we'll just start selling that.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

No, please don't.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

It'd be hilarious. There's an audience out there for everything, you know. Yeah. Sure, you'll find your niche if you got.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

Yep. We're gonna AI create this right now. I'm gonna hop on GPT. Let's do it. Might not like the new fan base once we're done with that.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Oh, good lord. So, what about you as as a man? We kind of all know about your history once you've gotten to the grand line, but like, what do you personally do to unwind and for hobbies? Because this is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Anyone that's friends with me on Facebook knows that I enjoy my cigars and bourbon. Sitting on the back porch, hanging out with friends, relaxing, unwinding, de-stressing.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah. Fishing every once in a while, getting re-centered and re-energized.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yes. Oh, you're a fisher? Yeah, I like to fish every once in a while. Okay. What about hunting? Hunting down here in Florida is not too good.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

It's really not. No, I can vouch. It's accurate. Well, randomly for you. I I watch a lot of Colbert, and one of his favorite things to do is the Colbert report where he asks these questions, get to know people better. And one of the questions is what is the best sandwich?

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Best sandwich I'm gonna have to say is the Philly cheesesteak.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

I mean, he's from Jersey, right? So it makes sense now that you would say that. Cuban sandwich represent they're good too. I honestly have to say the Cuban sandwich too. Yeah, that's a good one. But even still is they live at Europe.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

You guys don't live in Dunedin where Delco's is. Delco's got the best Philly cheesesteak.

SPEAKER_04 18:18

I was gonna say, because you're you're not too far from Tampa, so like old Tampa Cubans over there, over that way. Same thing with uh Bricados. That's another one.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah, Bricatos on 50. Oh my goodness. They got the best Cuban sandwiches in Florida.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

And they're devil crab. Oh, so good. Exactly. Devil crab.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

See, that was a trick question. Thanks, Chris.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

See, and here's here's the funny thing since we're on bricados, right? Here's the funny thing. My dad used to eat bricados all the time. And in that time frame that he was eating it, the health department went in there and shut it down like two or three different times for health code violations. So I'm like, dad, why are you eating that nasty place? Because over here in Plant City, we got something called Strawberry Hut. And Strawberry Hut's got a phenomenal Cuban, but even still, like Bricado's super good, but it's super dirty.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Strawberry Hut. Never heard of that.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

Next time you're in town, we'll go grab one.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Definitely go to the strawberry.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Now, Rick, I uh I I was goofing around on AI the other day and I asked it to look you up in preparation for this interview. I was like, I wonder what AI has on Rick Windling. And so it said that you're, I mean, very involved with the children's programs. It actually spoke very highly of you, which is a good thing. But it said that you run a private investigation company.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I do. I took my uh dad's business over that uh when he passed away. I took that over when I retired. So he's truly are a dick. See the rumors true.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Confirmed right here. He is a dick. That's right. You heard it. Dick Fundling. I don't even know what that means. How did that become associated with private investigators? Dick Tracy. Yeah, I think so. Sounds good. Maybe his work comes out.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

I don't know, Matt. That's crazy. So are you actively a private investigator today? I do currently hold a license. I let everybody else do the investigations. I own the agency.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Being a Grand Lodge officer, I don't get out in the field that much anymore. But yeah. We don't do the cheat spouses or anything like that. Never have, never will. That's the fun. That was actually going to be my next question.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah. What what kind of stuff does a private investigator do? Like serving new court papers?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

No, that's we do well. We also serve process, which is serving the subpoenas and summonses. We do blue collar crimes, we do security enhancements, we do executive protection, so all that good stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Like I'm curious, what is a pet peeve of yours as a man? Not in Freemasonry necessarily, but but I also want to know the Freemasonry one too. Just in everyday life, personally, like what's your something you just irks you or you can't deal with that makes you walk the other way.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

People that lie. I just have a hard time either lying or being fake. You know, I think everybody that knows me knows I'm pretty upfront, honest, and I I just I can't deal with the the people that lie and are fake, you know, friends to your face, and as soon as you turn around, we're ready to stab you in the back. That that's my pet peeve.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

But other than that. Oh no, I I want to know in Masonry, what's your biggest pet peeve in masonry? Like whether it be ritual, degree work, like what is it for you? That okay?

SPEAKER_00 21:21

The bickering amongst our brothers. Really? Yes. Interesting. Ritual work, there's nobody perfect, you know. There's only one man perfect and he got crucified for it. You know, so I know even if I if so elected as grandmaster, I'm not looking for perfect ritual work. I'm not a ritualist. Um, do I know the work? Yes. Do I cur hold a current blue card? Yes. But the bickering between brothers, I mean, we all took the same obligation and keep our passions with them due bounds. If you have a problem with the brother, let's go to the brother and talk to them about it. In fact, I will tell you that I've recently Done with that with two brothers so far to date, and I'm gonna be doing uh having a meeting with a third brother that people like to play against each other. And when you actually meet face to face, it's like I never said that. You didn't? That's what I heard. Finally, you should have came to me, you know.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

So and I think if if we all end but you bring up a good point because if yeah, you bring up a good point because even if you just use the simple Mason just two of the Masonic tools, the compasses and the trowel, you use those two, and you're not gonna have any of this petty bickering at all. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Oh, we still think about Freemasonry since I joined, is you sit in the lodge and everyone's on their best behavior, they're actually practicing all the teachings, right? Like even if it gets heated, it never gets still in only the most extreme cases do you see it get vulgar and like aggressive? Almost everybody keeps control inside the lodge room. And I've been preaching ever since we have this podcast that that lodge room is like training wheels on a bike, and you need to take them off and go out in the real world and act that way. It's not just meant to be a Mason two nights a month. You're supposed to be a Mason every day.

SPEAKER_04 23:07

It's funny, Chris, that you say that. So my so my my wife has started to pick up on some of the some of the things that I'll say. Like if we're driving and people driving stupid, or we're at publics and people are acting like people in publics do. You know, anytime we have something like that where people are really getting on my nerves, I'll just take a breath and I say, I'm keeping my passions within due bounds, right? So she started to say that, right? Whenever people are acting stupid in the grocery store, she'll just look at me, she'll like grab the buggy and just be like, I'm keeping my passions within due bounds.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

There you go. Spread the love. Yep. Well, also, like, I'm a very inquisitive person, so I would always go to every DDGM in my district at the end of their year and ask them if there was anything that surprised them about that job. And every single one said the same thing you just said. They were surprised at the amount of bicker and the amount of trouble that they saw during their year. So that must be a big problem.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Yeah, unfortunately it is. How we get it to change, I don't know. We're working on it.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

I mean, and that's the thing. I kind of I kind of wonder if it's a generational thing. I mean, because it, you know, over in District 21 in my district, what I'm seeing with a lot of these, you know, uh Gen X and Millennial worshipful masters that we have is all of us are working together incredibly well. I mean, remarkably well. Like there's no tension, there's no, you know, well, we tried that 20 years ago. Like there's none of that. Like it is quite literally like the worshipful master at my lodge just did a oil-based or acrylic-based painting of a sheaf of wheat suspended near a waterfall, like and just gave it to Traveler's Lodge uh because they didn't have one. So it was just like really cool. And they're all wanting to get together for game nights, they're wanting to get together for family events. And it's like it, there's really a generational divide in masonry with some of the older brothers versus some of the younger brothers. Have you seen any of that or no?

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Well, absolutely, because you know, it's the way we always done it, you know. And I know next to make it, I'm gonna come against some opposition. I'd love to tell you some more about what I what I have in store, but uh, I don't want to step on our current grandmaster's toes. But he knows what I'm gonna be doing and he he loves the ideas. And I will tell you, him and I have been working well together. We're unified since I've gotten elected. And uh, you know, he asked for my input on things that you know that I haven't seen since I've been elected. So it's it's refreshing.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

That's awesome. That's really awesome. It sounds like uh things are very different in a positive way, and I think that can really help solve the underlying issue you talked about. When when everyone at the top is having fun and following the rules, everyone else will emulate that behavior, you would think. You see it in the lodges, you fart up, Matt. Like when the master and the immediate line are all working together having fun and getting things done, the whole lodge is on board and they start to kind of move in that direction. So I'm sure that exists at the district level and even up to the roll collar level. I remember the first one of the first Grandmaster's visits I went to. That grandmaster had a meeting after dinner in a tile lodge, and everybody looked like they're having a blast. They were choking with each other, everybody was smiling, laughing, and I thought, wow, this is such a great fraternity. Like to see the guys at the top doing the right things and being cool and and having fun with what they're doing kind of made it okay for us too.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

Well, I think there was a quote in the movie Remember the Titans where one of the guys, you know, looked at the captain, you know, the the I think it was the linebacker, looked at the captain. He's like, you know, Julian, what or Julius, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? And he goes, Attitude reflects leadership, Captain. I was just like, ooh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

And like you said, what got you interested in moving beyond your lodge and getting involved at the district level?

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Well, to be honest, when even before I was initiated as an EA, Mutherland had uh was in downtown Palm Harbor, and they had Palm Harbor days where they closed down the street in front, and we sold hot dogs for a fundraiser. So I was out there serving hot dogs, and the fraternity and the brotherhood was there. Going forward, I started seeing a change in the fraternity where it was lodges pitting against lodges, brothers pitting against brothers, and it wasn't the same fraternity. And I learned in the fire department the only way to make change is to join the ranks. So I started inquiring. This is back when most worshipful Hoover was running for the Grand South. And he asked me the same thing. What's your aspiration? And back then it was like become worshipful master. And he goes, What after that? And I'm like, I don't know, maybe become a district deputy, but I don't know. I see a lot of work. And you know, he told me what it took to do that, and he took me under his wing, guided me along the way, and uh, you know, I I just felt that even though year as I was D D, things weren't just right, and it can't be a good old boy system anymore. And I decided to throw my hat in the ring for Genior Grandmort. I think you heard my speech. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

So would you say Rick Hoover is like I I definitely heard your speech. Um, I heard you speaking before you got elected as well. Um, and I liked everything you had to say. Would you say that Rick Hoover then was your mentor?

SPEAKER_00 28:23

He was one of Masonry. He uh he gave me the tools and the ideas to do what I needed to do to get where I'm at today. And obviously, there's other past grandmasters, um most worshipful Lambert, most worshipful bishop that and Hudson that I've all in fact I can remember when it was my time to be installed as worshipful master of the lodge. I asked most worshipful Hoover, he was a deputy grandmaster at the time, if he'd be my installing officer. And most worshipful Hudson tapped me on the shoulder and goes, What am I, chop liver? So I'm like, uh, what do I do now? He's the Grand Master. So I'm like, most worship, you're you're you're you're more than welcome to do it. And then Hoover tapped me on the shoulder and he said, What am I, chop liver? And I'm looked and I'm like, I'm not gonna win this fight, am I? But uh yeah, so it ended up being uh most worthless and stalled me, and most worshipful Hoover was the marshal. So it was a pretty great feeling to have the two top people come and stall me.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

You mentioned Lambert, and that was a man that I watched, and I thought, wow, that's like a great example of silent power. Like he wasn't one to constantly be at the forefront, but I feel like his influence was felt. And in my mind, I was like, that's I would love to get to that place too. I'd love to be someone that could quietly lead without having to crack a whip or I will tell you about myself every time.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

The most humble person going through when he started running, getting elected, and going through the line all the way up to Grandmaster. He never forgot his roots. My plan is to stay just like that. I've told a couple people if you ever see me get out of line, come up and slap me in the back of the head.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

So so you actually just brought up a point and a question that I'm actually curious about. So I know a couple people people that are being tapped for DDGMs over the next like three years. So what was you know in going from a worstful master and a past master to then a district deputy grandmaster, what's that workload look like? What what does it look like whenever you finally get up to that level or to that point? I mean, is it just a whole bunch of paperwork? Is it more responsibility? I mean, what for someone who's never been a district deputy, well what's that working?

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Being a district deputy grandmaster, you were the representative of the grandmaster in the district when he's not there. You're not the grandmaster. You don't have power of the grandmaster, which sometimes people forget. But it also it it really depends on the grandmaster and what he wants done. I I've seen grandmasters say you need two official visits and two unofficial visits, up to four official visits and four unofficial visits. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

And I've seen That's gotta be painful for a guy like Tom Simpson. It's got like 15 lines in the district.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

Yeah, and and yeah, Thomas Simpson, he's he's in my district over in 21.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

So Right Worshipful Simpson was the beast of an order and had to do four visits.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

But it's again, it depends on the Grandmaster and what he's looking to do his year and what he wants the district deputies to do. And they all have their they all come up with their requirements of what they want their district deputy to be or what credentials for them to have. Um obviously, like we've already discussed, they have to be a past master. Some wanted them to have to have blue cards, some wanted them to have, you know, obviously now with the new legislation that just passed, we all have to have our Master Mason 123 and MLT. But, you know, some have want them to have their LOTC. So different requirements for each grandmaster, because there's nothing clearly written in the digest beside being the past master.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

So it it's actually funny that you guys brought up it. It's funny that you guys brought up Tom Simpson. So I'm actually in his district, and he and I, we've worked a ridiculous amount of degrees together. I see him frequently, if not talk to him every week. So in our district, it's a tri-county area, and there's 13 lodges in it. And as the bird flies, it's over a hundred miles from the furthest north lodge that we have to the furthest south. So for some of these lodges, because we're we're in the month of June, and we like I'm a committee man this year, so we have packed our month of June. And so it's like we've got three to four lodge visits a week. And I think now after Monday, it's gonna start slowing down a little bit. But my gosh, the the traveling, it I mean, you got to drive an hour, hour and a half to some of these lodges.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

The Grandmaster gets to choose when all your visits got to be done by and he's you know, a lot of our lodges go dark July and August throughout the jurisdiction because of the summer and the northerners and stuff like that. So, you know, you got to take that into consideration, which I am so which I I will say it was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

The um, so we got our directive through our DDGM, right? Worksful Jeremy Leslie. He is a phenomenal guy. But the directive that we got this year is basically to bring positivity, to bring unity, to bring, you know, I think what I was told is, hey, we're gonna have fun with this. Uh so I was like, okay, great. So as I'm doing my whole pitch for public relations for the the committee work, I'm like, hey, this is my merry band of mariachi brothers. You know, so we're just we're all cracking jokes. I showed Chris right before we went live. I showed Chris our uh our chat thread, some of the stuff we have in that chat thread for that committee group that we have. Man, you want to talk about a phenomenal group. We are having a stand in the front row of a picture with those guys. That's yeah, do not stand in the front row because worshipful buddy has he's got AI warping of photos on lock. He does a really good job. I'll send you some of them offline because they are not appropriate for here.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

No, no. I mean, it's not it's not, it's not, it is safe for work, it's just not safe to freebies and green property. No, but doggone it is so funny. So, what was it like the first time you ran for Grand Lodge? Like, what was that experience like for you? Goodness. Well, you've run for you've run multiple times for different Grand Lodge positions, I think. Like the very first time.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

So when I ran for junior yeah, when I ran for junior grand warden, it was fun. I really enjoyed traveling around the state, going to different lodges. That year I was uh honored to be the grand sword bearer. So I had a gold collar to wear, and it was amazing to see how many lodges that I went into that freaked out because it was a gold collar. And they're like, We never had a gold collar. What do we do? And I'm like, nothing. I'm just a brother. I said, relax. It was fun running across the state, giving my message, getting the positive feedback. It was just an amazing feeling to feel the brothers' love and support throughout the state.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah, that's awesome. Now there's a definitely a perception out there that you can't run for Grand Lodge unless someone sponsors you that is in the Grand Lodge. There's no truth to that, right? Like you said earlier, anybody can run.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Five candidates this year running for junior grand warden.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

There's five now. I I know of at least two of them, possibly three, uh, because one of them is from my district, so he's already started to announce to the district that he's running. Um, and and I gotta tell you, it's the Grand South this year is gonna be hard because all of the ones that I know of are really good brothers. I mean, just any of them would be a good fit. This is where we want to be.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

We want to be in a position where you know a lot of good options.

SPEAKER_04 35:35

Yeah, it honestly it's like polar opposite from voting for president where you're just picking the lesser of two evils. Now you've got all these great candidates, you're like, daggum it, I can't figure out which one I win.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Last year we had three good candidates and three good brothers at random. And that's the best thing that I love about this fraternity is that craft gets to select who they want. And I love that.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Yeah, me too. I but what was really awesome for me was to see the craft wake up to the fact that they run out of this jurisdiction. I think they forgot that. Like you said, they're like the gold collar, what are you doing here? Oh my god, what do we do? In reality, they shouldn't be at all scared, they should just be like, hey brother, welcome you in, give you a great night, and then you leave happy. But there is that like sense of hierarchy and position, I think, with the titles and the colors that uh if you don't get out of your lodge, you just don't realize they're just brothers too that have been through the ringer.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

And and you know what? I I gotta say, like, even the messaging changed this year from the Grand Lodge and Grand Line, uh, the messaging being that the Grand Lodge works for the craft. I mean, I think I heard that at least once or twice while we were at Grand Lodge. So and now that was something, I mean, in my short time in Masonry was totally foreign to me. So especially like after Grand Lodge last year, not this most recent one, but the year before, I've said it here on the podcast that most worshipful Tally called me about Turkey Creek. And he's like, Matt, I want to help. And uh my first immediate thought was the Grand Lodge, the Grand Line wants to help with something. You know, it just it totally blew my mind, you know. So again, in the short time I've been here. So seeing that positive messaging coming out of the Grand Line and out of Grand Lodge has been very welcomed across the state from everybody I've talked to. Isn't it? Yeah, I'm sure it is.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

I've said it many times, even when I was running. You know, if there's no blue lodges, there's no Grand Lodge. We work for the craft, and that's what we should be here for. That's what I'm here for. I'm here for the craft. We need to get, we need to be unified. And it's not us first them anymore. We need to work together. We need to give the tools for every lodge to be successful. And that's what I said. We got to get back to the basics. And uh, I am so, so happy and proud that the craft unanimously voted to approve the mentoring program that's coming out. It's long overdue, and it's gonna be one of the tools and resources that are gonna help the lodges be very successful and get the engagement back with the brothers.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

So, for the people listening that aren't aware of what you're talking about, can you give us a 10,000-foot view of what's what's well Dr.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Joshua Schutz from Pensacola completely revamped our mentoring program. Um, it was nestled in with Masonic Education and our digest says it's required by every lodge, but unfortunately it wasn't being done. I never got the mentoring when I went through the the three degrees, and there was no engagement. You had to really work to get involved. And he presented this a couple of years ago, and it didn't go anywhere. It got shot down at at the Grand Lodge level, corporate board level. And when I talked to him about running, he and I I heard about it and I read it and I loved it. And I said, Can I use it and bring it forward to again and get to the craft? And we work together, and it's a seven-step method to engage the craft from when they applied to join the lodge through each degree and beyond becoming a master mason, how to get them involved in the district and the jurisdiction. And it's gonna be phenomenal.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

If I'm not mistaken, that that new mentoring or mentors manual is the GL217. Uh, because I heard uh Right Honorable Tim Ellis talk about it this morning. We had a uh committee visit this morning, but is that new is that new document out already or is that the prepared board today?

SPEAKER_00 39:26

We had our first corporate board meeting today, and it's gonna be the first time that it was translated into Spanish. So our Spanish problems yes, so there was a couple uh errors that were in the Spanish book that they're correcting, and as soon as they're corrected, they're both gonna come out.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

Very cool, very cool. So my understanding is the old GL217 was like 25-ish pages somewhere around there, and this new GL217 is over 60 pages, correct? Yes, nice.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Problem is I saw it coming up through the ranks. What I saw was people were very ready to get involved when it came to teaching the degree work, right? And going through the books with the candidates because they get to stand up in front of the craft and people applaud and they say, Good job, brother, for training those guys. But seriously, the mentors don't get that, right? They never get pulled up, they're never in front, no one's ever thanking them, and it's not going on their Masonic, you know, sheet that they're doing this work. So I could see why people weren't like dying to do that kind of a work. It was very in the background of the lodge, and only the best brothers would be the ones that would take the time to do it because they aren't getting any credit for it. So I think that like we always thought if you could put it on the Masonic record that they were a mentor in the lodge or something, just give them some recognition, it'd be a little easier to recruit for that. But maybe a brand new system that it will solve that.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

That it's gonna you're gonna see yeah, you're gonna see good things this year and good things next year. I can promise you that.

SPEAKER_04 40:53

And I I have to correct something I said just a second ago, brothers. The current GL217 is actually 35 pages and it's from 2008. And so the new one is going to be almost double that. So it's gonna be a much more in-depth mentor manual, from what I understand. It's gonna have all kinds of new information in there in order how to instruct some of these younger brothers or newly made brothers, I should say, to kind of get them a little bit more proficient as to where they should be. So when that comes out, I am absolutely gonna download it, print it out, put it in my little binder, and have it there. I'm not a mentor at my lodge, but I do believe everybody should at least take a look at this, and that way you can help some of these newer Master Masons kind of get in the groove in the swing of things.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

And it is required, like he said, that we do it. So somebody's got to do it. But so you can what I was asking you was you've been in the Grand Lodge now, I think four years, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

It's going on my third year now.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Yep. This is your third year, okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Is Masonry different for you now than it was before you got into the Grand Lodge?

SPEAKER_00 41:51

And if so, it is as deputy grandmaster for the first two years as junior and senior grand warden. As junior grand warden, you're learning the basics of Grand Lodge and how Grand Lodge works. And then you're starting to try to figure out because there's no training manual. There's nothing in there that says, hey, this is what you got to do. You know, most merciful Vest and I put a list together for the the new guys coming in behind us to hey, this is what you need to do, you know, at this time. Senior Grand Warden, a whole other level because now you got to do the budget. And it's a serious budget for you guys. Oh, yes, it is. That was very time consuming. Lots of time on the phone, lots of time in person with people. I think we did a fantastic job on the budget this year. I was kind of shocked that I didn't guess any questions at Grand Lodge. I'm happy that I wasn't, and the craft approved the budget. And as deputy grandmaster, you now get to know I'm gonna say 95% of everything the Grandmaster does, because God forbid anything happens to the Grand Master, the deputy grandmaster steps in and runs the fraternity until his year as grandmaster. So as I said earlier, the higher you get, the darker it gets sometimes. And we're trying to get rid of that darkness so it'll always be light.

SPEAKER_04 43:01

So that that actually brings up a uh I'm glad you said that about being deputy grandmaster versus uh senior grand warden. So you had told me on the phone at one point that you now have access to different types of meetings and conversations that you did not have access to before. So that wasn't gonna be my question to you. Are you in most works for Haskell like attached at the hip? Like you're involved in everything Masonically that he's doing, you're a part of all the meetings, part of all the conversations. I mean, is that basically how it goes?

SPEAKER_00 43:29

I want to say it attached to the hip, like I said, about 95% of the stuff, because there's stuff that he deals with that he'll handle. But we we work very well together. He has reached out to me on plenty of things, and I get to know things that he's gonna do before everybody else does. But that's just the way it works. Because again, God forbid anything happens to him, I gotta pick up the ball and continue to run with it. So again, there there's things that hit he will deal with, and when the time's appropriate, he'll let me know.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

So that that brings up another question. I at least on the particular Lodge level, or at least at my lodge, we have two different message threads. We have one that's all the lot the officer line, all the way down to the junior steward, and then we have one that is just for the three primary chairs. Is there a text message thread of the grand line officers? And how funny is that text message thread?

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Well, sometimes there's a text message thread when we're we're talking about serious business of where we're gonna do lunch.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Seriously.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah. But there's there we don't discuss business on via text messages. It's usually via emails coming down from the Grand Master, and we were cybercopied on that stuff. But I overall, I think the current Grand Lodge line works well together. You know, we welcomed Wright Warshall Dragniff with open arms to as junior grand warden and teaching him the ropes of the being an elected Grand Lodge officer now. And uh it's I think we got a great line, and uh I'm looking forward to seeing who gets elected at this upcoming Grand Lodge and bring them into the Grand Lodge line and welcome with open arms, no matter who it is.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

So speaking of, you know, as the as the Grand Line progresses, as you know, that progressive Grand Line that we have, what what's kind of your, you know, oh I know you can't get into the specifics here at this point, but your year as Grandmaster, what's some of the stuff that you're trying to achieve, that you're trying to implement, that you're trying what what are some goals that you have uh, you know, around the craft? And it could be everything from procedurally to just the vibe of the craft. So what what's your year going to look like?

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Well, one of the things, like I said, and then I and I'll say since I ran when I was running, the average cost of our grandmaster's official visits was eight thousand dollars per district. That's just way too much for the one night, and I as I preferred it, called it a one-night stand, because I'm coming in for one night, you're spending eight thousand dollars, and that money can be used for our lodges, that can money could be used for our charities. So one of the things I'm doing is Worshipful Burns, you were there during most worship Lambert's year. You guys got hurt hit by Hurricane Ian, and it put a hurt on our fraternity and especially districts twenty-three and twenty-four.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

So it put off the GMOV in District 23, and they did a town hall event at a tea lodge.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Such a better experience than I mean, wow, just to feel like you're with brothers, you know, like these we ate in the lodge room, we met in the lodge room of that lodge, and it was very casual. It was still exactly more reception, yes. So but it wasn't like what you're talking about where we got first.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Where where were the Grand Lodge lines dressed up in tuxedos, the you know, the DDs, and everybody's dressed up, and you gotta wear everybody else is wearing a suit. You know, it's kind of hard for some people to get off work on a Friday night, rush home, take a shower, jump into a suit, and go to a G Moth. Well, the Grand Master's official visit is supposed to be for the Grandmaster to visit the brothers of that district to find out what Grand Lodge can do for that district and help that district out and those lodges in that district out. So I'm going back to the old school and going off the town hall premise where all we're gonna do is have hors d'oeuvres and we're gonna be dressed as Masonic Casual. There's no suits, no tuxes. You know, I'll be in a brand. I think the brothers like that.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

I heard it. And you know what? If they're in jeans and a polo shirt, I don't care. I want butts in the chair, I want the brothers in the chairs, and I want to know what we can do for them to make them more successful. That's awesome. Keep the cost down.

SPEAKER_04 47:37

Yep. I mean, we we could really make this a lot of fun because Kathleen has some sort of a a degree or a night or something like that where they show up in overalls. So I mean, hey, we could do a town hall in overalls. Hey, we can.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

I'm okay with it. Hey, when I when I go to represent Grand Lodge at D Malaycon place, they have themes. They have neon night themes. I wore a neon shirt and neon glasses. This past year they had a character theme, and I went as Robin Hood.

SPEAKER_04 48:04

So imagine that. Which one? Are you talking like a Russell Crowe, or are you talking of like Robin Hood mid and tights? The only real Robin Hood and Tights or EOG Robin Hood. Dude, we watched that movie so much growing up, like because my mom was obsessed with that movie. I'm over that and Waterworld. Like those two, never again.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

One of the best bad movies ever made. It is horrible. It was so bad.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

But one of the things that Masonry's taught me is we're all supposed to be on the level. And that's the kind of grandmaster I'm going to be is on the level. I'm not caught up on titles. Call me Rick. Call me brother. I'm not going to correct you.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Just don't call me Liz and not using your full title.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

No. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

That's good. Things have changed.

SPEAKER_04 48:50

All right. I I will say that that is something that has been interesting to see in the crafts because again, I've only been here less than three years, right? But uh is that some brothers consider themselves more on the level than the rest of them. And it's like they're few and far between, but they are funny to watch.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

The ones that think they're above.

SPEAKER_04 49:05

Yes. The the ones that'll correct you actually, it's worshipful, blah, blah, blah. Okay, calm down.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

Yes, they're some people are wrapped around the titles. Yes, very much so. You know, there's it's a double-edged sword because the titles motivate people to try and get those titles, but at the same time, you know, the idea of titles on a fraternity who tells everybody we're all on the level is kind of the hypocrisy a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

There are other jurisdictions that uh you're only most worthful when you're in that current position. Then you go back to right worseful.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

So well that actually comes to a question I wanted to ask you. I I imagine right now you're very amped and ready for your year as grandmaster, as we need you to be. I'm wondering how much of your time has been thinking about after your year as grandmaster.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

I always want to be in part of involved in this fraternity, even after I'm done. I want to continue moving forward and be positive, no matter who grand the grandmaster is. Obviously, we'll always have to respect the chair. Like I said in my junior grand warden homecoming, we have to respect the position. And whether you respect the person in that chair or not, you have to respect the position. And agreed. And and respect's earned, it's not given. It's earned.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Yeah. I think that's the maybe that's the perception the small percentage have is that once you have the title, you have the respect even if you haven't earned it, and that you don't have to do anything to earn that respect. But that just means that we need more Masonic education early on.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Yes. Well, and one of the wise counsel that I got is when if you and if you ever become a district deputy grandmaster, you're a district deputy grandmaster for one year. After that one year, you're a brother again, and you got to sit with your brothers in that lodge. So treat everybody like you want to be treated. And I I that's what I try to do.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

Well, and and you gotta keep in mind, and I actually learned this from you know watching some of the teachers that I had growing up, is like in school, you had teachers that were like really cool, and you had teachers that really kind of sucked, right? You know, and they were like mean for no reason. And I was dealing with kids like you all day. But uh but you're not you're not wrong. I I was a menace in high school, but you got to think about it. Like eventually you're going to be out of that position of authority. And so one of the teachers that I had, I was in my mid-20s, I saw him at an auto parts store and I looked right at he was horrible to me in in high school. And I told him, like, you mentioned one word to me, I'm laying you out here and now. Like I just I hated the guy, he hated me. Anybody who's in a leadership position has to understand that leadership position only exists for a short amount of time, and those people remember how you treated them while you were in that leadership position. So I'm glad to hear you say that, that you're you're dedicated on being a brother, you want to go back to being just a normal brother in the craft. That is a great thing because again, how you treat people throughout your year, and this is true for anybody, how you treat people while you were in power, once you get out of that position of authority, they're going to bring it back to you. You're going to get it tenfold.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Well, you know, even when I go visit lodges since I've been elected, and you know, they're like, ooh, the Jangu Grand Warden now that the deputy grandmaster's here. What do we do? Do you want honors? Do you want to sit me east? No, I'm just here to sit amongst the brothers. I'm just here to support the lodge. That's it. I don't need any special treatment. Even next year, if so elected, and I go to visit a lodge, I'm there just to just to visit. In fact, I'll give you a funny story. Most worshipful vest told me he has three hats. He Matt, were you at his installation? No, no, I had to get back to work. Okay. So his sons got him a beautiful white Stetson. So now he has a white Stetson. He has a gray-colored hat, and he's got a black Stetson. So he tells me if he's wearing his white Stetson, he's in a good mood and he's happy. If he's in a in this gray one, he's on the fence about something. But if he walks in your lodge with the black Stetson on, watch out.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Okay, that's good to know. I wish everyone would wear their emotions in their hat. Make it easier.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

But I mean, he was just having fun. That's that's what kind of a grandmaster we have right now. Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Hey, is that a Grady Judd hat? No. So this one's a uh twister because it's like 100 degrees outside, so I'm not gonna wear my felt ones.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Yeah, I hear you. But you know, it it's and that's what he's he's just like and you know, when we go to a lodge, you don't need the pomp and circumstance.

SPEAKER_04 53:19

We're there just to support our brothers and and I was gonna ask, it's like, do you do you not want the pomp and circumstance, or do you not want to watch that lodge butcher grand honors like most of them do? It's I'm not gonna lie, dude, it's rough watching it sometimes. Sometimes you receive him in that manner.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

But I tell you what, some of them are they they get in unison after the first clap. Yeah, we'll leave it at that. But yeah, no, I you know, being a firefighter, I'm always been involved for a thankless job, and you know, it's I'm not about titles. And I I'm not worried about the pomp and circumstance.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Never have been, never will be. Well, you mentioned some legendary names already that have served in the state of Florida's grandmasters. What is something that you've learned that you want to imitate as you've served other grandmasters in the grand line? I mean, when I was coming up in my line, I'm sure Matt is through going through this now. Every year we have a different master, we do things completely differently. So I'd always take mental notes of the things that I have to remember to do that because it was awesome. And I have a longer list of things never to do because I saw other people do them. Is it the same for you in the grand line? Do you make those mental lists of like, oh, I need to emulate that? Oh yes. And then oh don't ever go down that path, you know. Like oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I've learned that real quick. So what what's one thing you can think of that you want you would want to emulate from something you've seen in some other Grandmaster?

SPEAKER_00 54:41

As I mentioned it before, be humble. Humbleness that you saw in later.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Yep. That's a good one. I think uh for someone who's in a position of leadership to you have to actively try to remain humble. It's not easy, it goes against your instincts as a human, I think. So you have to kind of always be watching that. And it's so nice to hear you say that as someone that's in authority that you want to focus on being humble.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

So out out of kicks and giggles, because we just covered like a positive trait, you know, that you want to emulate, what are some of the or you know, an example of something that is that you've seen that you're like, no, I definitely want to change that moving forward? Like as you know, as kids growing up and as parents, you know, you look at how your parents raised you and you say, I like that they did this, but I don't like that they did that. So what's the thing that you've seen that you're like, nope, that that one I'm I'm kicking out?

SPEAKER_00 55:28

One of the things that I've learned and and watching past grands and coming through the line is the one thing I don't want to do is make a knee-jerk reaction. I want to be able to sit there and I'll tell somebody, let me think about it from all sides, what the what my decision's going to be, whether it's gonna affect a few or is it gonna affect everybody? You know, we we've seen it through multiple past grandmasters, good and bad, that some of the decisions they make were knee-jerk reactions or vindictive. And I'm not I I'm not gonna say any grandmaster was an addictive, don't get me wrong there. It just I I'm not gonna I don't leave like that.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

Never have, never will. So so you're so your thing that you want to make sure to get away from is that mentality of ready fire aim. Like you you want to make sure to do your due diligence and actually do it right.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Absolutely. And and you know, even from what our our current grandmaster is doing with these ruling decisions and the directives, and you know, we've talked on the phone several hours about it, is our justice system needs to be followed, it needs to be fair and impartial. It's sad that we even have to have one, but unfortunately we do. But and the thing we both try to communicate with our craft is let's get it settled on the lowest level possible. Let's go from brother to brother first, you know? And because half the time I I was on penal affairs for three years, and some of the trials I was on, I'm like, are you kidding me? Why are we going to trial on this? Did anyone talk to each other before this? Yeah, exactly. And it's just like, oh my goodness, this could have been settled a long way.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

You know, I I'm I'm glad to hear you say that because I've been a part of one trial, I've watched another trial, and then of course, you know, I've explained on this show multiple times the stuff that I've seen from Turkey Creek to Lakeland Lodge and the issues that we had. The the trials are an interesting thing because it's almost like a trial will bring out the worst in Masonry. I mean, it it's not we're not really trying to find peace and harmony anymore. Instead, now we're being accusatory, now we're, you know, getting a little more aggressive or saying things out of line and not acting like a Mason. So I'm I'm glad to hear the directive uh number two. I was really glad to see that. I'm glad to hear you say that because trials, brothers, if you've never been in a trial, count your blessings. They suck. They absolutely are terrible.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Well, to be fair, you went through some of the darkest trials that have happened in the state of Florida. Uh or you you were, you know, I don't I would like to think they're not normally like that. The ones that we saw, um, I'm sure to an extent you can't get out of there because you know, if there's a trial, that means people couldn't settle their stuff. So there's probably gonna be some of that, but even I saw the worst of it.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah. In a way, I almost wish brothers could see a trial, not be involved, but I mean I mean it's it's inevitable that we're gonna see trials throughout the years.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

But my my idea is everybody sees it and see what goes on. They'll rethink about throwing the on-bringing charges and try to settle it on the level. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

And and you know, spee speaking of that, Rick, you uh, that is one thing that I've learned again in my short time in Masonry, is people throw around charges and trial and all the they throw that around so much. And half the people that talk about it have never read the digest where it explains all of it. I think it was probably two, no, about a year and a half ago. I had a master here locally uh that threatened me with charges. And I'm like, what are you talking about? You know, you're threatening me. And I'm not even I wasn't even a member of his lodge. And he's like, You're walking on thin ice, I'm gonna file charges against you. I'm like, for what? You know, the only thing I did is I brought up a concern. I went to you first, the master. So I followed chapter 44 of I went to the worshipful master first for any irregularities in a lodge. And then I went and talked to the district deputy. I wasn't tattling, I was just saying, hey, this might be something to keep an eye on. So it's, you know, brothers, here's the thing. If you don't know charges and trials and you've not read the digest, please don't throw that out as a threat. I mean, because it it's it's hollow, it falls on deaf ears, it doesn't make you look good as a Mason. You know, like right where's for Rick is sitting here saying, go meet with each other, sit down face to face, and hammer it out. You know, that's going to be so much better for peace and harmony within the craft.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

And that's the end goal, peace and harmony.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

Those are the lessons that we are supposed to learn as Masons is to how to deal with people that you don't agree with. That's kind of the beautiful part of going through the chairs in the in our lodge, is you you serve a different role. So you interact with different people in the lodge in different ways. And it gives you so many opportunities to get into uh arguments with people and deal with it that I feel like by the time you're the worshipful master, you should be pretty proficient at that. You would think like you've seen you've seen every physician's issues and challenges, so you should be pretty proficient.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

One of the issues too we have in our fraternity with the the decline in membership is brothers getting raised to Master Mason, and within a couple of years they're worshipful master.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Yeah, right. Well, that's desperation right there. Yeah, because the lodges have gotten themselves into these desperate situations. And you know, when I was the public relations committeeman, I would ask the lodges, what do you what does a blue lodge exist for? And they had all kinds of things like ritual, charity, but really you only exist to make new masons. So if you're not focused on that, you're not focused on the purpose of your lodge. You only exist to make new masons. That's what you're there for. And uh, if you're taking care of that, then you can turn your attention to charity and other things. But if you're not making new masons, how can you focus on charity or anything else in your lot?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:01

You know, Chris, Chris, you you just brought something up, and I I genuinely hope that there's nobody around the state that's doing this anymore. But I had a older Mason, he's probably how old is he? He's got to be close to 80 years old at this point. This guy's been a Mason for a long time. I think he's since gone uh NPD, but either way, he was saying that back in the day, but back in my day, yeah, what they used to do is they would enforce that if somebody wanted to become a Mason and they asked to become a Mason, they would tell them no. And that they had to ask three times in order for them to get a petition to become a Mason. I really hope there's nobody out there still doing it. If you are, please stop. Like for the love of all things. Like we're we're seeing so many like our membership. I think I read in the on the uh one of the Grand Lodge uh reports that last year, or sorry, in 2024 we had 24,000 Masons, and in 25 we had 22,000 Masons. Right. So we're losing, we're not even replenishing our numbers, guys. So while you do need to protect the West Gate, and you absolutely should protect the West Gate, you got to start getting some of these guys in. You got to start doing a little bit of recruiting. None of this ask three times to become a Mason garbage. Like, like let's get back to making Masons. That's what we should be doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Yeah, it's not the 50s anymore. Can't tell somebody no, they'll never ask again. Yeah. Exactly. Go online and talk about how Masons are horrible people. They told me no.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:18

So, Rick, actually, that brings up a another question. I mean, we were just talking about some like different dichotomies of you know, things that you wanted to emulate, things you wanted to change. So let's ask another dichotomy question of what is a the thing in your Masonic career that is like your highlight? You're like, man, if I think of Masonry and Positivity, this is the thing that I go to. And what's the thing that you're you're like, man, I really should have changed that? Like, what are those two number one slots?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

It is the number one highlight in my career. Is uh as you researched on AI, I'm very involved in our Masonic youth. Yes. And I just started a chapter up in Clearwater, and we already have seven boys, but I supported uh Marion Dunn chapter up in Ocala. And for the last several years, I made a donation for them to cover their mini conclave. And just out of the goodness of my heart, doing what Mason should do. And during an initiation of the seven boys at our chapter, their jurisdictional officer, per se, like our DD, came up, gave me a handwritten note thanking me for the support of his chapter and being able to for them to do their thing for they do in conclave. And for a young man that's not even involved in our fraternity to do that, made me speechless. I mean, that shows what D Mole is doing with them.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:43

Yeah. I I will say any of the D Molay or Job's daughters or Rainbow Girls, any of those, any event I've been at with any of those organizations, those kids are phenomenal. I mean, they are completely different than the average teenager that's out there. They know how to hold conversations, shake your hand, all that kind of stuff. So, man, if you're part of or not just you, but if anybody is a part of those organizations and they're acting as a mentor to these young people, good on you. You guys are doing a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

Well, we need to, we're the only fraternity in the world that has a farm team. These D Malay boys are interested in masonry because D Malay's formed after masonry. And I mean, what better way to turn around and make these young men when they turn 18 years old to get them into our fraternity? I mean, it's less than 50% that go from D Malay to Masonry, and that's a shame. We need our our brothers to step up and go. And in in the current G mobs, I tell everybody, you know, go to one of their meetings, teach them a life skill. In fact, they came to a meeting and taught our grandmaster a life skill, and it was as simple as how to turn the brightness up on his phone. Age versus technology strikes again. Exactly. But they can come and they're techno, they're technically inclined where some of our older Masons aren't, and they can teach us skills too. But we can go teach them how to change a tire, how to change oil, you know, checking accounts.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

That's what they're there for. But we we need to support our Masonic youth, our our our, like you said, Job's daughters, Rainbow Girls, D Malay. We need to support them all.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:20

So with with D Molay, I was going to ask you, we were talking about that at the lodge visit that we had this morning. Is for D Molay, is there any sort of like a like a funneling system or a recommendation system that whenever these young men are starting to age out of D Malay, that they are sent to the local lodge as a reference, or is that dependent on the lodges to get involved with D Malay?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

That I'm going to suggest you guys do a podcast with Ray Marshall Jody McGuire. He's the executive officer of D Malay. He's going to be able to answer that question probably a lot politically correct more than I can. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:54

Fair enough. Good deal. So now we've covered the positive thing, right? So we've covered the thing that you're like, man, that's that's masonry since. Me. Like that's the highlight. What's the bad one? I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

Again, I covered it before, all the backstabbing, the bickering. We need to be brothers. We need to, if you got a problem with me, guess what? I'm approachable. Come to me, talk to me. Let's settle our differences. Like I said, just recently with two brothers that are well known throughout the state in several different, not only in the Blue Lodge, but in other appended and allied bodies, we listened to other people coming up to us and saying, Hey, Joe said this about you. Joe's gonna do this. And they they know that there were problems and they're just stirring the pot. We need to stop stirring the pot. We need to get back to the basics. Let's be brothers. You have a problem with me. If I have a problem with you, you're gonna know about it because I'm gonna come to you. Like our grandmaster says, if I ask you to out to lunch, I'll buying and I'm gonna be chewing your ass out. But if you ask me to lunch, you're gonna buy and you can chew my ass out. I don't care.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

So you you act you actually bring up an interesting point because uh I've actually had one of those brothers that's uh more about the gossip. You know, he's constantly, you know, doing that. I've had to, I've had to distance myself from this guy. It's like, you know, it just I I just I don't like that. I mean, I really like kind of where the craft is right now. I like where the jurisdiction is right now, I like the positivity moving forward. And to your point, uh and brothers, I can actually attest to this, right worshipful Rick and I have have had some pretty lively conversations in the time that I've known him. And it's always been great because we always end it with love your brother, talk to you later, or you know, you know, it it's always we might not always agree on everything, and it's perfectly fine when we don't always agree because if everybody agrees with you, then you're in the wrong room, right? So I can definitely attest to that. Uh that uh right worshipful Rick Windling is a definitely a man of character that you might not always agree, but that's totally fine. We're still brothers at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:41

Yep. Amen. Yeah. Just agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

You just ask questions. Why do you think that? Why do you take that position? I'm curious. I'm sure you have a good, you're more than willing to give them your point of view on anything they want to ask you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

I'm willing to listen. I'm willing to give wise counsel, I'm willing to take into things into considerations. And I've had brothers come up to me and say, hey, why would you do it this way? Why don't you do it that way? And I'm like, I never thought about that. That's a good idea. Oh so here's a deeper.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

No, no, I know. Um, you were talking about young Masons, young pre-masons, even. But let's talk about young Masons actually coming into the crap today. They're actually craving deep esoteric philosophy and brotherhood because they're not getting it in the world. It's kind of uh hard time. I feel bad for these generations coming up behind us because they don't have real friendships, they don't have real relationships, and they kind of don't trust any institutions. They largely don't trust any of them. So they're looking for something real and deep, and they want to learn about the esoteric carter Freemasonry, but they don't want to spend three hours talking about roof budgets. So how how how does Grandma pivot from being a real estate management company to more of a philosophical society or brotherhood? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

Well, I know our grand secretary and our grandmaster and myself and the rest, we all want to get into the 21st century. We want to be able to put stuff online. Our younger Masons are so used to having things at their fingertips and you see on their phones, and we need to have that engagement with them and have them be able to access. You know, we've heard other candidates talk about teaching our esoteric work. Well, I I understand that, but the way you understand, let's take the beehive, for instance. You may interpret the beehive. Yeah, exactly. You may take the beehive and understand it in one way an aspect, and I'm gonna understand it, and it's gonna mean something to me in a different way. Is it fair for anybody to say this is what the beehive means? This is what you need to understand that it means, and this should what it means to you. No, let's give them the tools and the resource to show, hey, here's some information on about the beehive, and let them understand and let them understand and have them come up with their own answer to that question.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

And I think that is the heart of our fraternity. It's not a dogma that tells you you have to think this way. It's a it's a situation where it presents you with as many pieces of information as possible and invites you to use these tools to come to your own conclusions about how it applies to your life and what it means to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:20

I've heard right worshipful dragon have talk about some things and even right worshipful stuff, you know, they want to get social media going, YouTubes and stuff like that. And I think that's a fantastic idea. I mean, we we need to get out there, we need to reach out. I mean, your your initiative with the Facebook, I mean, that was huge. And it works in so like I said, it works in some areas and doesn't work in some areas. You know, some lodges want to try it and they don't go by what you teach them. And they try to do their own version and they're like, it doesn't work. I'm like, well, did you try it that way? No.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:53

You know, it it's interesting to hear you guys talk about the symbolism and how everybody, you know, the esoterra and everybody's gonna take their own thing out of it, right? So I've been in a room of reflection and I took, you know, a certain lesson out of it that maybe not everybody would have taken. But the one thing that cracks me up the most, and actually, and this is something that Rick, if you're willing to dive into, cool. If not, you know, no harm, no foul. But if you listen to some of these modern-day podcasters like Candace Owens, right, I'm watching her show religiously just because I can't help but watch this train derail. You know, it's one of those things, right? The the house is on fire. I'm just gonna sit there and watch it burn. But the the beehive, she kept bringing up the beehive of Masons. They all think that we're just worker little bees and they're the ones that run the world. I was like, huh. So so my question to you is this I mean, and and this it wouldn't be a position like a formal position of the Grand Lodge or the Grand Line, just asking your opinion on it. How do we how do we combat some of this ignorant stuff that's going on? For example, Chris and I are gonna have uh somebody on to discuss all the stuff that's been on Sean Ryan's podcast with some of the priests that they brought in and all the anti-Masonic rhetoric, which is picking up a tremendous amount these days. I mean, a ridiculous amount. So, what should we as Masons be doing to try to combat some of that, or should we? Should we just keep our mouth shut like we've done for the last 40, 50 years?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

That's a tough question. Um, because some of some of the stuff you have to ignore. Otherwise, you know, we're just gonna give fuel for the fire. But I think, in my opinion, getting out there in a positive light, getting out there in the community, helping out the first responders, helping out needy families during the holidays, getting that out in the live stream media is going to put a different light on us, I in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

100%. I think that's true. I grew up with Masonry being this big scree secret organization and that is infiltrated in the governments and is running everything, right? So I had no interest in it, and I had no history of it in my family that I knew of. So what got me to join was a documentary I saw on Netflix, and it was just guys and they were talking about how masonry's helped them, a guitarist, plumber, uh, an executive at a company, and they were just telling their personal stories. And I told my wife, I I gotta go. I gotta go to a lodge after I saw that. I'm like, I'm those guys, and I think I'd get something out of it like they did.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:14

And I think that's what Right Worst Full Stells trying to do is with a get a YouTube stamp uh channel started. I mean, you know, I was told the other day Facebook's for old people.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:23

Not too I'm on it. I don't think I'm old. Exactly. Okay. All right, nah, I saw the eye roll.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:30

I did not say a word, good sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

Uh but uh, you know, it we need to get out there on TikTok and the other social media platforms and start putting a positive light in and getting these getting these young guys to be inquisitive and say, wonder what it's about. Let me go check them out. And I think when they come to our lodges, hopefully they're gonna get a good aspect. And that's one of the reasons why I want to cut the cost down on these G mobs, because like in the fire department, we get a new fire truck every five years, but we're living in a 30-year-old fire station or a 40-year-old fire station that hasn't been upgraded since it was new. Our lodges are like that. We need to bring our lodges into the 21st century, and we can't do that when we're spending $8,000 a year in a district for a grandmaster's official visit. Money's hard to come by these days, and you know, again, that's one of the things is we need to get back to the craft, get back to the level and the basics. Remember our roots and padding my travels. You know, I right now that the only two other grand jurisdictions that I'm gonna go to is Alabama and Georgia, because we do stuff with them. We do the tri-state degree with them, we do the Hundred Man Master Mason night with them. I don't think I should be spending the brothers' money to go to all these other grand jurisdictions for yes, it's nice network, but talk on Zoom or Teams or on the phone. You're not gonna take a trip to the Caribbean on the Masonries die.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:00

Nope. You know, and that actually brings up another point. And uh, this is more so me just kind of speaking to the brothers and just something that we can, you know, bounce off of. But uh Jordan Peterson talked about this at one point and he was talking directly to churches, right? Where he was saying that young men today are lost. They don't have a home, right? They don't have any certain one thing they can go to and say, hey, you are welcomed here. And so his recommendation to the churches, which I think is phenomenal, is you should take out a billboard, you should put a sign outside of your church that, hey, men are welcomed here, or young men are welcomed here. I think we should do the same thing with Masonry. I mean, you know, growing up, uh, you know, the Masons had approached my dad before he passed away. They had approached my dad and wanted him to join here in Plant City, and he just didn't have the time to do it. You know, he was very busy, he's running a very successful company at the time. So he just didn't have the time. So after my dad passed away, I went and talked to that older Mason that I mentioned earlier that said back in my day, we did it three times. But uh he actually showed me, you know, he had his ring on. And I said, you know, hey, you're you're a Freemason. And he said, Yeah, I am. And he's as a matter of fact, I tried to get your dad to join the lodge. And he looks at me and he goes, son, you ever need anything at all, you call me. And and to this day, I could call that man and he will pick up the phone, he'll talk to me, you know, just a phenomenal brother. So that actually started my journey of studying what Freemasonry is and what it is not before I ever joined. I mean, I've said it here on the podcast multiple times. I researched masonry for over a decade before I ever approached the Westgate, you know, just because I wanted to know. And so whenever it comes to like the bad stuff that's out there about masonry or the conspiracy theories or any of that stuff, I could tell you on average exactly where it came from. And so that's something that I just enjoy researching and looking at. But as far as our young people are concerned, man, there is no better place for them to be than in the lodge. Like a young man, 18 plus, get in the lodge. The whole reason I joined is because I didn't have an older male to look up to that I respected, not at my church, not, you know, it people that I was surrounded myself with. I just didn't have it. Now here I am in masonry and I've got mentors out the wazoo. I don't know what a wazoo is, but here we are. You know, and especially Joe Rogers at my lodge works for Joe Rogers. I don't think I've ever met a better man than that. You know, and I call him Grandpa Joe, and my daughter calls him Grandpa Joe. So we really got to start reaching out to these young people and getting them in the lodge.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:10

We do. And I'm working with a brother that we both know, and I'm not gonna mention his name out here, but he thinks outside the box when it comes to membership development, like Chris did back in the day. Back when he was young. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:24

When I was more age appropriate for uh social social media, yeah. Whenever you had a little less a little less salt in your beard. Quick word association game. I say a word, you give me a one-word answer. We'll only do like five or six of these. You ready? Yep. Initiation. Interesting. We gotta ask another gavel.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:43

More interesting. Oh, geez. Brotherhood. Hey, on the gavel though, you know that gavel's either light or heavy. So that's why I say it's more interesting. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. There's a lot of different kinds of gavels, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:58

Yes. Brotherhood. Friendship. Blessing. Too much money. Authentic. I'm sorry, what was that? Authentic. Trueness. Honor. Humble. And last one, love. Brotherhood. Nice. I think you passed that test. Um we actually, now you've got at least a couple questions we can take up as last few minutes, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:16

Yeah, yeah. So basically, uh, Rick, what mine is is kind of just I I want to lay out a three-year period and just kind of get your take on it and kind of where it's going. So you have now been a part of Most Worshipful Tallies Year. If you can give us like a quick recap of, you know, the the feedback around the state, because you went to all the GMOVs, just kind of like a recap from around the state of what were the brothers' response to most worshipful tallies year? You can kind of give us like a 30,000 foot overview of most worshipful, most worshipful vests year, you know, because we've already seen him come out swinging, and I am here for it, believe me. And then finally, again, what can what can the brothers expect with your year and how are you going to use those two years of predecessors as kind of like building blocks, right? You know, or a step to get to your year. What are you going to emulate from their years?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

Most worshipful Atala started to turn the ship in the right direction. He didn't create any confrontations and he he kept an even keel. He allowed us to seek as Grand Lodge officers at the Gmobs on anything we wanted and allowed us a little bit of freedom. So he was he was starting to turn us in the right direction. Most Worshipful Vest, as you saw, he is the probably the most kindest and loving person I have met so far in the Grand Lodge Monty. He cares about everybody. He wants to be fair with everybody, as you can see with his ruling and decision, and he wants to do right by everybody. And he he's continuing to turn us in the right direction. And from those two, I've learned I don't want any confrontation. And I want to continue to spread the brotherly love in the fraternity and continue us to move forward and to start recouping our losses with the brothers. And I'm open to ideas and how we can do that, get our young men in. You know, I've got ideas on pillars of our community and how to get them in. It's, you know, again, you know, we we've had some rough and rugged roads, and it's ours to travel, and we we just need to continue to move forward. We put the, you know, one of the optimist things is, and I just posted it on Facebook the other day, let's forget the mistakes of past, press on to the greater achievement of the futures. And that can't be more true. And I think that's what we need to do is we need to stop dwelling on the past and let's continue to focus on the positives and move forward. And I think we'll we'll start mending and healing, and it's going to be the fraternity that we all want. Listen.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:43

Very good. Well, uh, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. That is right worshipful deputy grandmaster Rick Winling joining us. Rick, thank you so much for joining us here on the show. You know, definitely, at least for me, you're welcome back anytime. I imagine for Chris as well. Uh, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you. So, uh, Rick, any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:00

It's an honor to be. Uh, I'm glad you guys asked me to, and I'm glad that most worshipful vest allowed me to do this. Um, it's been a long time coming, and uh, we got to continue this. And anytime you guys want to do it again, please reach out. An open book. You guys know that. You guys know me pretty well, and let's continue to move forward together because that's how we're gonna do it is together. There you go, Chris, my brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:21

Any final thoughts? Uh just uh really like to thank you for coming on. Uh, we have recorded other podcasts that will never see the light of the day just due to the bad timing of when we recorded them. And I really want to thank you personally as someone who went through some dark times in Freemasonry. There were some good friends that helped me get through it. And two of you on this show are in a very small group of those people. So I really want to thank you guys. A lot of brothers don't realize when a brother's in need is the time you should be their friend. Uh, and too many brothers when they see you're in need just want to be away from you and not part of whatever you're going through. Um, but you guys aren't those kind of masons. So I greatly want to take this opportunity to thank you for your friendship and and standing by your brother when he needs you. Means a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:08

Absolutely. And let me tell you, it was an honor to have lunch with you at Brand Lodge and brother Stephen Clark, too. So it was an honor to get to meet him and glad I met him. So thank you for the introduction.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

Those were interesting times. Yes. Unprecedented, some would say. Unprecedented time. How about you, brother Stan? Anything for the brothers or our guests? Before we go.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:29

No, just as usual, may peace and brotherly love prevail. With that on the level, it is oh.