Sneaker Impact News
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Sneaker Impact News
Microplastics & Plastic Pellet Pollution: Kelly Leviker/Public Interest Research Group
Host Bryan the Botanist speaks with Kelly Leviker from the Public Interest Research Group (PIRG). Kelly, PIRG's Beyond Plastic advocate, discusses her efforts in combating plastic pellet pollution through organizing citizen science initiatives and pushing for state and federal legislation. She highlights the severity of plastic pellet loss in various supply chains and its detrimental effects on the environment. The conversation covers the origins of plastic pollution, the importance of citizen-led scientific monitoring, PIRG’s focus on educating the public, and upcoming events for World Water Day and the International Plastic Pellet Count. Kelly shares her personal journey from exploring nature in Colorado to becoming a passionate advocate against plastic pollution, emphasizing mindful consumption and community action.
Welcome back to Sneaker Impact News. Today's special guest is Kelly Leviker from Public Interest Research Group, PIRG. Kelly is PIRG's Beyond Plastic advocate. She has recently been focused on organizing, researching, and lobbying against plastic pellet pollution. She is helping to organize plastic pellet hunts around the country. These are citizen science efforts to identify plastic pellet pollution. She has also been pushing for state and federal legislation to help curb plastic pellet pollution. Hi, Kelly. How are you?
Kelly Leviker:I'm doing all right. How are you doing?
Bryan The Botanist:Awesome. Yeah, I'm great. Really excited to have this opportunity to chat with you today. Where are you joining us from?
Kelly Leviker:Denver, Colorado.
Bryan The Botanist:Awesome. We're on the Eastern time zone. You're out in the mountains. We got introduced through Zero Waste Miami, excited to learn more and shine a light on this important topic. So tell us about PIRG and your role with them.
Kelly Leviker:First off, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this opportunity to come on your podcast and talk a little bit about pellets. So yes, so I am the Beyond Plastics Advocate for PIRG, the Public Interest Research Group. And so we're, it's an organization that really looks after what is, What do people in America need? What are some of the ridiculous problems that we have in front of us? And what can we fight? And one of those things are plastic pellets. And maybe for a launch into a lot about what I'm doing about plastic pellets, maybe I should tell folks what are plastic pellets.
Bryan The Botanist:Absolutely. I mean,
Kelly Leviker:Okay. So plastic.
Bryan The Botanist:but I'm thinking like just pieces of toys and wrappers and things they break down, but that's probably not exactly the case, is it?
Kelly Leviker:No. So all those things are secondary plastics. So plastic pellets are called primary microplastics and I actually have some pellets. I can show viewers if they, they can see these. little things. These are plastic pellets. And so this is like the, when plastic comes from oil and gas. And so the first product that is recognizably plastic is basically a plastic pellet. And so, after it's converted from oil and gas, it's made into these little things. And then these little things are shipped to companies that make stuff of plastic, where they melt and mold them into plastic pens, plastic bags, car bumpers, vinyl records, and all sorts of good stuff. You know, all sorts of stuff.
Bryan The Botanist:petrochemicals are how they create plastics, and they are ubiquitous. They're used for everything. They're the building
Kelly Leviker:For everything. Yeah, so these are the building blocks. So, of plastic, so everything you have plastic, even though these things are very rarely found, or like, most people don't generally see these things,
Bryan The Botanist:That's what
Kelly Leviker:this,
Bryan The Botanist:use.
Kelly Leviker:yeah, without this stuff, you wouldn't have half of the things that are around you right now, probably.
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah, I'm looking at my phone, I'm looking at, you know, well this is made out of ceramic, but most things, and you know, people are really concerned about plastic and they should be. There's a lot of health concerns and there's a lot of ecological concerns, um, so. Um, that's a cool title beyond plastic advocate. So I, I assume you do a lot of education,
Kelly Leviker:Mm hmm. Yeah, especially right now. So one of my main focuses is on plastic pellets, but sorry, in general, I'm interested in plastics. So I'm looking also into microplastics and looking at the health effects. And when we think about the health effects of plastics, it's like twofold. Like we think about, first of all, like when they break down and then we find them in our brains or breast tissue, breast milk or everywhere else we're finding them. But there's also all these chemicals that are in these things. And so those chemicals also leach. So it's like two fold, you've got both effects that we need to be thinking about. And so, yeah, so I'm looking into a lot of that stuff. And then also just trying to raise awareness about the different issues. And then when it comes to plastic pellets, like, people don't normally know what these things are. And they don't know that there's such an issue. And it's estimated that 10 trillion. of these end up in our oceans every year, where you know it takes forever for plastic to degrade, so they just end up like accumulating and accumulating and accumulating, and then that ends up to being part of our microplastic problem, and as well like animals they end up eating them, and the chemicals are leaching, and it's just kind of getting like a bigger and bigger problem each year.
Bryan The Botanist:so accumulating in the environment and in our bodies, because we eat things that are eating them. And we also will ingest them just through, I mean, how else do people get them in their bodies besides consuming? Fish or other things that might consume them,
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, I mean if we talk about microplastics, like these are considered microplastics, but you can see them. And so there's like sometimes a little bit of confusion. So to be a microplastic, it has to be under five millimeters. So these range between three to five millimeters in size. So this one is not like something that we're gonna get through the air, like other microplastics, or through our water. Like, I think if you saw this in your water, you'd probably be like, Whoa there, I don't think I'm gonna drink that water. That's what happens with a lot of other microplastics. But, um, nonetheless, these things still break down. And then we can start to get them by those other means of how we get other microplastics in our body. But yes, the general way a person would get a full pellet in their body would be through eating something that's eaten one of these.
Bryan The Botanist:but they can still get into our bodies through the water supply and through, um, there's other ways, right? Like I know when you do laundry, even it can break down. I read that polyester breaks down microplastics into our. Into our water supply.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah.
Bryan The Botanist:it's definitely breaking down in some of our laundry. Um, whether or not it goes directly into the, our city is aware of this is how big is the problem? I mean, and the health concerns,
Kelly Leviker:Yeah. I mean, if we're talking about like polyester and stuff, I think there's concern that people are starting to take action on that. And so for example, in France, there's a mandatory rule that water filter or sorry, washing machines need to be fitted with filters on their washing machine. So they catch a lot of those polyester other plastic fibers from our clothing. So that could be from Lycra. That could be from yoga pants or we've got a lot of clothes that are made of plastic.
Bryan The Botanist:I was just reading the other day that like your outdoor gear could be poisoning you, the forever chemicals and like the water repellent. You know, jacket that you get from REI. I don't want to pick on REI cause I love the outdoors, but, you know, we pay a lot of money for these fancy, you know, products sometimes, and they can have chemicals in them and plastics and even polyester, like I'm wearing polyester, you know, uh, runners wear polyester for dry fit. Um, so we have to be conscious. How can we in the U S do something about that with our, with washing our clothes?
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, I think,
Bryan The Botanist:outfitted like they do in Europe?
Kelly Leviker:yeah, I mean, there's, I believe, and I don't want to, don't misquote me here, Okoye, but I think in Oregon and maybe Washington and maybe a few other states, they're working also on legislation to have it so it's mandatory to put those, um, filters on washing machines. But it's something you can do yourself. You can also just make sure your washing machine has that or put it on it.
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah,
Kelly Leviker:Or you can, or there's also like, if you don't have, like, it could be one of those things you're conscious of. I'm gonna buy this polyester clothing because, for this particular purpose. But if it's just a shirt that I'm wearing out at night that I don't really need it to be polyester, I don't really need it to be plastic, put that into one of your, like, lists that, of like, how am I deciding what clothes to buy?
Bryan The Botanist:so cotton is safer for the environment in general. I mean, I know there's chemicals in the cultivation of cotton, but when you buy organic cotton, that's probably your best. Option or hemp or, uh, no bamboo nowadays are making clothing out of two. So these are alternatives to polyester. So just be aware of the material you're wearing and buying plastic water bottles, I'm assuming are big issue for microplastics or no, not so much. That's just a misconception.
Kelly Leviker:They are a big issue. And it's, um, I don't remember the exact statistics, but there's been a lot of studies done on how many microplastics are just in one water bottle. And it's, it's pretty astounding.
Bryan The Botanist:And that statistic that we eat like a credit card worth of microplastics, is it how often, you know, a month or something?
Kelly Leviker:I think there was that statistic out, but then somebody was questioning exactly how truthful that is or like how much is there. So I don't like to quote that exact statistic, but there's definitely, it's every human is getting some
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah, I read just yesterday. I mean, just, I was on my own little reading journey. You know, I, you sent us some amazing articles that I'm going to be sharing with people about how they can protect themselves, how they can get involved. We're going to talk about that later. Um, you're doing the work of literally, um, that needs to be done by More people like the government or like just, it needs to be made. That's why we're doing this today to get a spotlight on this issue. Um, you're our first microplastics expert we've ever had on this podcast. But, um, you know, um, what, what, what can we do? You know, what, what more can citizens do?
Kelly Leviker:I mean, I think it's like one thing you can do is do a plastic assessment of your home. So you go through like room by room and be like, what, where do I have plastic? And you know, if you're looking at the like totality, the environmental impact, it doesn't necessarily make sense to just throw out things that are still good, but you know, things start to need to be replaced. So kind of create a list of what are those things that are going to need to be replaced that could be replaced with a. non plastic alternative. Like, look at your cooking ware. If you're heating anything up in plastic, that's not a good idea. So if you're, like, don't ever microwave stuff in plastic Tupperware. If you're going to microwave, put it on a plate, but then also then it's like, what about your spatulas or what other sort of cooking things you are? Because when you're heating plastic, that's when it has a tendency to start to leach more. So you want to make sure that's one place that's important. But then you can also go into your bathroom and be like, okay, well. Is there stuff here that I could start to replace by going to a refill store and refilling some of this stuff? And then one thing that I know, this is just a little tip for my own life, is like when I go to some re refill stores in Denver, sometimes what they sell is more concentrated. than what you would get in a normal store. And so sometimes it seems like the price tag is more expensive up front, but then it's like I bought one thing of um, Like just a normal house spray to clean off your toilet or the floors or whatever, but it's like a concentration of eight So it's like one bottle looked like it was really expensive, but then it's like but i'm actually buying eight bottles
Bryan The Botanist:see. So you add water or you it's super concentrated buying it
Kelly Leviker:just have to,
Bryan The Botanist:refilled
Kelly Leviker:by Rodfell
Bryan The Botanist:using glass. Mason jars. I know that's a big one, right? Just trying not to use plastic for everything that, you know, especially for, um, you know, utensils and straws and everything. I mean, I have a bunch of metal straws and I try not to encourage that when you go to a restaurant, of course, you know. Um, there's a classic example of you ask for no plastic, they accidentally bring you plastic. You don't want to be mad at that person because they're so busy. Sometimes they have the best heart. They didn't mean to hurt you in that way. So I've often heard the analogy of don't get upset at that person. Instead, just, you know, remove it and just, you know, you have to do the best you can, but there's no reason to. Go on a war path either, right? Like there's, there's science and there's, there's, there's methods to, to do this in a peaceful way
Kelly Leviker:most certainly, and I mean, right now there's so much plastic being made. It's really good to try to do what you can, but you know, ultimately if they give you that fork or that something.
Bryan The Botanist:or like the takeout stuff. Yeah. But if you can request it, and I know some people take their own containers to take out food, you know, for take home. So you don't have to get, I know they ban styrofoam in some cities, but not all cities. Styrofoam also a plastic?
Kelly Leviker:It sure is. It comes in like, I showed you what a plastic pellet looks like. Styrofoam gets even smaller. It's like the tip of your pen. That's like, like the width of it. That's the size of like a primary styrofoam pellet.
Bryan The Botanist:And then they just congeal it together with some type of binder or they melt it together. And
Kelly Leviker:They make, they melt. I'm not quite sure on that process, but they pop it. I know that bit. So it comes as like a condensed little bubble and then they
Bryan The Botanist:what type of chemicals? You were talking about chemical. Are these PFASs? Are these forever chemicals? Are these? petrochemicals. Do you know, are they hormone influencers? Like, you know, they got the, uh, forget what the hormone influence influencers are called
Kelly Leviker:Endocrine disruptors.
Bryan The Botanist:disruptors. Yeah. Stuff like
Kelly Leviker:I mean, We don't actually, like, you know, when you get food, it has to come with a list of ingredients. But when you get plastic, it doesn't have to come with a list of ingredients. So, we can know, like, in general, sometimes, what is in these things, like flame retardants, endocrine disruptors. PFAS, and we know sometimes like, okay, PFAS is in things that you want a non stick, like a non stick pan or waterproof things. Those are in general where PFAS is. Then you have like, BPAs. Those can be in the lining of like, uh, tin cans.
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah. You got to look for BPA lining in your, when you go grocery shopping,
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, but we only have like kind of ideas. So it's like, even when there's like plastic pellet pollution and they're trying to figure out like, which company did this come from? This is proprietary information, what actual chemicals they use. So you can kind of like, you know, you can get in tested and then you can kind of find out what chemicals are in them, but we're kind of, we're, we're kind of in a black hole. We don't really know a lot of what chemicals are going into these things.
Bryan The Botanist:you're still doing a lot of investigations. I understand. Um, and Working on pinpointing the causes of the pollution or not the causes, but the sources of the pollution in the sense of who are these companies. I want to get into that. But first I want to ask you what got you interested in microplastics and tell us about your journey. Even start back when you were a child. I mean, has this always been a passion to be environmentally conscious?
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, I've had a very weird journey to be frank with you.
Bryan The Botanist:We're open to hearing,
Kelly Leviker:I grew up in Colorado and my father was building a log house up in the mountains of Colorado. So every summer we would go up into the Rocky Mountains and I would spend all summer kind of like wandering around the forest. Around where he was building the log house. And so, snowboarding became really near and dear to my heart too. Because I was in the mountains all the time and I just loved it. And um, the need so that I felt like I grew up with a strong connection to nature. Being in it quite a lot. Um, and so, I remember I first got interested in climate change. Because back when I was a kid I remember hearing that it's going to affect how much snow. Is in the mountains and that's going to affect how I can snowboard So it's a real selfish reason and that's how I got into and I was like, whoa, I don't like that
Bryan The Botanist:affecting the whole landscape. I mean, that's in, you hear about the glaciers and like, this is a big problem, you know,
Kelly Leviker:know, so that's how like i'd say I had that strong foundation, but I always since I was really young I had an interest I wanted to make some change and so Um in my undergraduate degree I studied languages So I studied actually at the University of Sydney in Australia, and I studied Russian and Arabic, and then I lived in Russia for a long time, and I studied abroad in Lebanon. But as I was there, I was
Bryan The Botanist:founder is Lebanese.
Kelly Leviker:oh, yeah, oh, wonderful. Oh,
Bryan The Botanist:You're going to have to meet them and they're going to, they go there every year. Um, they have, they have family there and land. So,
Kelly Leviker:it's such a beautiful country.
Bryan The Botanist:but we want to hear about the differences between Russia, Australia, Lebanon, the United States. How does that, and I also, we were talking yesterday. You spent some time in Ethiopia.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, it's, I can't even begin to sum up everything because it's like a really weird, weird story. But yes, then I lived in Ethiopia for a long time and that's kind of where specifically I got into plastic. And so when I was in Ethiopia, I was working at the university and we started the first program for landscape architecture, which was a master's degree for landscape architecture in Ethiopia. And that was incredible. I absolutely loved that experience.
Bryan The Botanist:Addis Ababa.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan The Botanist:Nice.
Kelly Leviker:Big running place.
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah. And that's also a up altitude, high altitude, just like Denver. So you must've felt like pretty at home.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, I mean, it's got the mountains. It's got the high altitude. It's, it, yeah, for sure.
Bryan The Botanist:Cool. So like, and did you know the language over there? You just were able to, you know, there's enough English spoken there.
Kelly Leviker:Well, there's enough English spoken. I learned to like, I can order food, I can get in a taxi and get around a bit, but No, it's kind of rough. My husband, he's Ethiopian,
Bryan The Botanist:Oh, can you tell us any, can you just say hello in Ethiopian first? There you go. Awesome. Yeah. Some of the best runners in the world are Ethiopian. So. Kenanese vitale, I believe. Um, there's a couple others, but yeah, that's awesome. Um, so Ethiopia, that's where you got excited or not excited necessarily, but passionate about, you know, making a change in the world. Um, and, and this was in landscape architecture. How did you move into plastic awareness?
Kelly Leviker:Well, one thing we were doing with this program is Addis has all these parks that have kind of become like city parks, but they're kind of derelict and they're, um, but they have interesting histories behind them. So with our students, we went around trying to kind of recover a lot of the history of these parks. And I remember specifically we were in one park and there's a river and there's lots of rivers that run throughout us, but there was one river that ran through this park and it was just so one, it was completely filled with plastic bottles. And so that you could just see the plastic bottles moving, but you couldn't actually see any of the water underneath the plastic bottles. So it was like moving plastic. And you're like, I guess there's a river there, right?
Bryan The Botanist:pollution was that bad. I mean, I've seen that also in places like Guatemala, where, you know, 4ocean is using their river interceptor because unfortunately they don't have the same type of sanitation systems in some of these countries as we do in the United States. It just goes into the watershed, you know, some of the. Dump sites are right outside the city and it just, though, you know, they don't do the same thing that we do, which is burying it and capping it and, you know, picking up the trash. I mean, so it's, it's a different system in some of the countries. And, um, that's what I learned from a local waste expert in Miami. Um, is we have, um, you know, more of an organized collection system in the United States, but we still have a big problem. So you saw this big problem over there and that made you want to do something about it. How did
Kelly Leviker:well, it was just one of those things that it really caught my attention or I was like, oh my gosh, and it's the compounding of a bunch of problems like there's a lot of problems that Ethiopia faces. I mean, there's,
Bryan The Botanist:Tell us about a couple of them. Are they economic? Are they social? I know there's been some warfare in the past, but is it, what are, what's the, what's the big list of issues over there?
Kelly Leviker:there's a lot. I mean, yeah, there's social and there's economic and then there's also climate change. It's also, that's also affecting people quite a lot. And it's a country that it's prone already to drought. And so, and it's mostly a lot of the farmers, it's all rain fed agriculture. So if the rains don't come, that's a problem, which is I, my master's thesis was looking at climate change in Ethiopia, and it was specifically looking at what's supposed to happen with the rain and what's supposed to happen with different things, and it was like, every model was just showing. It just shows increased unpredictability and in a country where there's so many people that depend on rain, increased predictability is just a really dangerous element to add to it. So yeah, the sanitation systems are not adequate. There's not enough money to make them adequate. The water, you can't drink the water out of the tap. So then you have to go get a plastic water bottle or a filtration system, which most people don't do. Most people get plastic water bottles and then there's not a. Good way to dispose of them. So then they end up in that flood of plastic and
Bryan The Botanist:and it's a big city. Millions of people.
Kelly Leviker:yeah huge huge
Bryan The Botanist:They can't import all the food like the United States, and that's not even responsible for any country. You need to be self sufficient. So when floods or droughts happen, it can, I mean, millions of people can die. I mean, I remember back in the 80s, there was a big fundraiser for the children of Ethiopia. Um, yeah, that was made
Kelly Leviker:and that was again linked to the social problems, too Cuz there's also like that's that's we could have a whole nother
Bryan The Botanist:yeah, I think I remember like runner, um, who won, um, you know, the Olympics a couple, uh, Olympics ago, he, from Ethiopia, he put up like an X when he went across the finish line.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah,
Bryan The Botanist:That was a political statement because
Kelly Leviker:was a political statement
Bryan The Botanist:Can you tell us just a tiny bit? Is there just different changes in government? There's, what is it called where the opposition and there's, you know, just turnover. Is it, is it a stable government? I know. Is it a democracy? Is it because
Kelly Leviker:the time the guy did the X with his arms, I was in Ethiopia at that time, and that was around the time we were leaving too because it became too politically unstable to be there. And so you have over 80 different ethnic groups in Ethiopia, and so you also have a
Bryan The Botanist:you hear about Iraq, there's, you know, the two big ones, I'm sure there's more, but wow, 80, how do people get along?
Kelly Leviker:That's the problem. That's the problem. So, they all have like different versions of what happened historically, then they have historical grievances, and then you've got ethnic groups that are bigger than others, and then there's power plays between different ethnic groups. So, in short, that guy was protesting a government that had been in power for two, almost three decades. And it was an ethnic minority. So, he was protesting that group being in power. And I'm, I should, I need to be very careful with how I'm wording this or we're going
Bryan The Botanist:Okay. But they were targeting, you know, I know people are getting targeted and his family, he was very worried about his family and he was the Olympic champion for the marathon. I forget his name right now. It's driving me crazy. Cause
Kelly Leviker:Felisa? Felisa?
Bryan The Botanist:face, face, Lisa. Yeah. Something like that. You're really close. I think his last name is Lisa.
Kelly Leviker:yeah, yeah, Felisa, I think that's it.
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah. He's a very, he won the Boston marathon a couple of times too.
Kelly Leviker:mm hmm. So then what happened is then that government fell and then a new government came in power But there was still like a lot of grievances. So then that led to the Civil War and now there's Officially no war but there's still drones It's better landing on people's houses and stuff. I
Bryan The Botanist:Oh no. So it's kind of like a transitory environment right now in the sense of like UN peacekeepers, maybe we. Is the UN involved a little bit?
Kelly Leviker:think the U. N. No, I don't think the U. N. peacekeepers are there, actually. But the U. N., like, the African Union headquarters are in Addis. So they do meet there regularly. Um, not to
Bryan The Botanist:There's a lot of, uh, a lot of issues in their, in their, in their society that they're still working on. Um, so, so you left and, and where did that take you?
Kelly Leviker:So then I went back to Denver where I'm from and then I started volunteering with a local group in Denver called Canada Geese Protection Colorado and there we were doing um, lake cleanups. So it was, and I, what was really amazing for me is you go to Denver parks and I was like, oh yeah, they're very clean. But then you put on waders and you get into the water and then you're suddenly like, Whoa, there's so much trash in these lakes. And I was really stunned. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm again, seeing all this plastic pollution in the water. And then I was also like, while you're in the lakes, you're starting to see the frogs and the turtles and the grits. And then you saw bald eagles and fish and you see all these things. And you're like, this is the, and it's like difficult not to like. Say we're giving this environment to all this wildlife
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah. It's
Kelly Leviker:and it was like
Bryan The Botanist:heartless that humans don't care more about animals and the, and it's also our, we're part of nature, not above it. I like to keep, you know, saying that on every episode, you know, it's a delicate balance and we are part of it. We're not above it. You know, we depend on. The ecosystems to survive the forest, the water purity. And that's why we have a clean water and clean air act.
Kelly Leviker:Mm hmm. Yeah.
Bryan The Botanist:like people are, a lot of people feel like there's nothing they can do and they feel like it's such a big problem. Where do I begin? We, we gave already a couple suggestions about look, doing an inventory of your home. Your purchasing power is your vote. What you spend your money on dictates how corporations spend their money and what they serve. So if we demand, you know, recycled post consumer materials, that's a better than a virgin plastic. Um, you know, if we demand that these big beverage companies come up with a better or just be responsible for their waste, first of all, you know, and I hope that's something that they do soon. I know part of your role is, you know, advocacy and even lobbying. For legislature state and federal levels. So, um, when did you get involved with PIRG? Do we want to fast forward to that? Or is there anything in between with the geese, um, and the, and the river or the, the, the lake cleanups? I don't want to fast forward too much, but, um, there's so much I want to talk about between what's going on in Miami. It's coming up and.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah. I mean, there was one lake in particular that we kind of adopted because it was just such a problematic lake. And I remember one thing that's like in that lake is you could just stand in one spot for three hours. That's how long our cleanups normally lasted for. And pick and you didn't have to move. Like there was so many layers of plastic bags, then bits of styrofoam and other bits of microplastic that you could just stay in that one area. And I remember like Almost every cleanup, thinking about like, Should I go after just the macro, big bottles, big plastic? Or should I go after these tiny bits of plastic? Because that's like an immediate threat to the wildlife. But the big plastics are going to turn into the small plastics. And I was like, what a ridiculous sort of decision I'm like faced with. None of this should be here in the first place. Much less that I'd be like, for my own sanity, I just need to move on cleaning. But then it's like, but you know you're leaving
Bryan The Botanist:mean, I do a river clean up here in my backyard. There's a river called Little River and there's a ton of manatees in it. I was paddle boarding quick personal story and about a year ago with my friends and all these manatees live in the Little River. That's where they migrate to. And they like the fresh water, you know, during the winter. It's warm here in Miami, and we have hundreds of manatees in my, literally in my backyard almost. It's like within a half a mile, but there was all this plastic everywhere, and there's also crocodiles out there, and fish, and birds. Plastic everywhere because it's in the middle of Miami. The city broke my heart to see the styrofoam lunches floating with the name of the person still on it. It's like, this is not my trash. I've never littered. I'm not, you know, in the sense that my parents Raised me as a child and I saw the signs littering 500 fine in Wisconsin where I'm from is like, to me, that's like a crime against humanity to throw something out the window. But like, I've seen people throw stuff out the window many times and it just breaks my heart. There's an education problem, but there, first of all, the problem was you see it and it breaks your heart. I went back to the river as organized to clean up for once a month on the paddle boards. And we go out there three or four of us and we bring back four or five garbage bags full of plastic bottles, alcohol bottles, every type of junk food you can imagine, wrappers and all the vaping stuff and all the smoking and drinking stuff. It's all like. Mindless garbage, you know, and a lot of it's, you know, and there's no way to really stop it right away, but to raise awareness, I think is the most important action we can do and to also not give up, you know, every little bit helps. Like we did a cleanup on earth day and then we kept going out there, you know, once a month and I go back with my friends, paddle boarding, and it looks much cleaner on the areas like the shorelines. We went and cleaned up the shorelines as best we could when there's a big flood, it gets worse. So after the floods, you know, after a big rainstorm, we go back out there, but, you know, cause it's washing in from all these areas, but it's, you know, for me, the first step was get rid of the big stuff. But then to your point, I've seen videos, you know, I live close to the ocean too, about three miles away. I used to live right on the ocean in Miami beach. And I've seen the videos where they take the, the, the, the sifters and they. You know, they, they, they show you the microplastics from the sand and it's, it's, it's one in the same, the sand and the microplastics are, are becoming a contiguous ecosystem. And they're saying the oceans are just turning into plastic and in 30 years, it's going to be more plastic than. Then we can even ever do anything about, I mean, they're cleaning up the great Pacific ocean patch. Yeah. Plastic ocean. There you go. Tell us a little bit about your knowledge on that. I've been talking a little bit and I want to, we want to learn from you. Who's
Kelly Leviker:Oh, that's just, it's just a book I happen to be reading, Plastic Ocean. I'm like, well, this is about
Bryan The Botanist:the author? That looks interesting to me.
Kelly Leviker:Captain Charles Moore. So he was one of the first people that went out in the Pacific gyre and was recording all the trash. In the gyre and so this
Bryan The Botanist:the floating island or whatever? The plastic island, the
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, like yeah, so there's like five. I think they call there's an organization called five gyres So I think there's five these gyres in the ocean and they're not like just like a like an island of trash But that's how they call them. But they're like they're just like because of the currents. It's where a bunch of the trash collects And so this book is about like his first, like he's a, he's a, he has a boat and he goes out on boats and that's what he does. So he was one of the first people to really like, hey, we're just collecting a bunch of trash in our ocean. So this is his story of going out to the Pacific Gyre and trying to raise awareness about it.
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah. And I'm sure you're aware of the ocean is a cleanup project, uh, where they take out that giant boat that.
Kelly Leviker:Mm hmm.
Bryan The Botanist:they've even gotten a lot of big, huge companies involved.
Kelly Leviker:Mm hmm.
Bryan The Botanist:Um, they're making an impact on it and they're also cleaning up places like Guatemala. And I was watching on YouTube. They did a cleanup in LA to demonstrate it, um, where the river flows out to the ocean. Um, they put the interceptor first there to prove the concept and then they took it to Guatemala and they took it to Thailand and a couple other places, I'm sure, and. And there's other organizations doing it for ocean out of Florida. We're a big fan of, uh, I don't know if you've heard of them. They fishermen help retrieve some of the plastic and they use it for, um, bracelets that they make and other things from eight pounds of ocean plastic go into one bracelet that they sell and raise awareness with and raise funds. And they're paying fishermen to, you know, retrieve.
Kelly Leviker:That's super.
Bryan The Botanist:But yeah, so, um, tell us more about, you know, the plastic problem, um, before we get into how, and I want to talk about citizen based monitoring
Kelly Leviker:Okay. Um,
Bryan The Botanist:and
Kelly Leviker:so yeah, plastic in general. So I think one thing that we can think about is like when we go out on these cleanups and you can see for yourself what type of plastic are you collecting and it changes a little bit depending on where you are, but so much of it is single use plastic. Like, and I think when we think of plastic, like some things you can justify, they need to be made of plastic, like some medical equipment or some things that maybe that is just what is the most convenient material. But then there's this wasteful types of plastic, like plastic bags that you use for five minutes or something that's wrapped in plastic that didn't even need to be wrapped in
Bryan The Botanist:so true. They say the average bag, plastic bag is only used sometimes for like one use or two uses.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, and It's like we have a calculator on our website like for if a city banned plastic bags How many plastic bags would be saved and that's like an interesting calculator because it's always in the millions and billions Of bags depending on the size of the city, eh? So, I mean that's just like I think thinking about plastic and thinking about taking a step back and say what do we actually need? Like do I need that plastic bag? Is it that much of an inconvenience? For me to bring my own bag.
Bryan The Botanist:I don't think it is. I've got 20 some reusable bags that I've been collecting over the years. I keep them in my car trunk. And when I go shopping at the grocery store, you know, some stores don't even let you give you plastic bags anymore down here and that's good. But some do, um, like whole foods. I don't think I might be wrong on that, but I know all these, you know, I'm an all day shopper and, uh, you have to take your own bag in there and people use box, you know, reusable bags and all these, but I know. You know, I'm hoping Publix will get rid of theirs. I know they sell the reusable bags, but please, Publix, I know you're using them to make benches and stuff and grinding them, and there's a whole story about, you know, recovering and grinding them and making other products, but they're ubiquitous. I see the Publix plastic bag floating in the river all the time. I see it in the ocean. I see it, you know, everywhere floating through the streets, you know, and so, you know, but it's. It's more than just a public's problem. It's a, it's a societal problem.
Kelly Leviker:For sure. I just wanted to show you this because it happened to be right next to me. This is the little bag that's always in my backpack. So, like, I have my takeaway ones, but then there's this one that's so easy to fit in anything. Like, I can always have that bag on me. That's no problem. So,
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah.
Kelly Leviker:I think.
Bryan The Botanist:Doing little things like that. That's a huge way that we can all make a difference is just stop being mindless. I hate to use that word cause I don't want to judge people, but it is mindless. Mindfulness means thinking ahead. Just like when you have to prepare your meal for your child, you know, you mentioned that you have a young son and, um, that you, you, you, you know, you have to. Do things ahead of time to ensure success in his life. Same thing for grocery shopping and for the planet is, um, I like to think about the seven generations philosophy is that, you know, the next seven generations and that are coming after us, you know. And they're inheriting the earth and they're inheriting our problems. And we're, we're either contributing to the problems or we're helping to, you know, resolve these problems. Even if we can't, one person do it, one little action, you know, they have these quotes about they, they compound, you know, like if millions of people are using reusable bags, that's millions of probably billions of plastic bags. Cause I haven't, you know, I, I've been using my reusable bags for a couple of years, not to say I'm perfect. There's been times I've. Not in a plastic bag here and there. And it's just, you know, but I'll use it for my garbage bag. Then, you know what I mean? Like I don't buy garbage bags. In fact, I just use what I, I just take the garbage out piece by piece. You know, I mean, there's a purpose for garbage bags too. I get it, but like, you know, you don't need to be buying plastic in general. There's plenty of it that just, you accumulate and use it for things like. Plants, like I'm a gardener and you know, you can take your old plastic water bottle or your, you know, after I, I collagen, you know, that I take daily. And after I use the container, I, you know, I make it into a, for my plants. I just drill holes in the bottom and then I put plants. Use it
Kelly Leviker:That's perfect.
Bryan The Botanist:or other things you can, you can use it for refilling, put, you know, put your seeds in there, you know, if you're, you're chia or flax or, you know, whatever you're buying in bulk, take it to the refill. I know it sounds so hippie, but Hey, the hippies were onto something.
Kelly Leviker:Hippies are onto something. I have to agree.
Bryan The Botanist:I think they got a little bit suppressed, you know, and, uh, co opted, but I think that they were onto something because, you know, there's a reason why there was a big pushback against them and stigmatizing of their name is because, you know, petrochemical industry has a lot of money.
Kelly Leviker:It's got more money than I do.
Bryan The Botanist:So, um, PIRG, like, are we ready to talk a little bit more about PIRG or how do you want to?
Kelly Leviker:So I guess,
Bryan The Botanist:Tell us about PIRG. They're a non profit, right? Are they
Kelly Leviker:it's a nonprofit. Yeah.
Bryan The Botanist:federal? Are they a federal agency? Are they, um, I'm saying they're not an agency. Sorry. They're a non profit. Okay.
Kelly Leviker:They're nonprofit.
Bryan The Botanist:based out of Denver or do you have multiple?
Kelly Leviker:We have multiple, so we have like two sister organizations. We've got a C four and then a C three. So the C four allows you to lobby the C three is more just research. So you kind of, You have to balance your time between each one and so then, so we have the national PIRG and then we have state PIRGs too. So you have co PIRG in Colorado and so I work on the program team so I work for the national working on this issue nationally. But then I help out any states that have, are doing stuff specifically around palettes and states. So then, and then our other sister organization is Environment America. And then Environment America also then has their state versions too. And they also have C3 and C4. A little bit complicated, but roughly that's it.
Bryan The Botanist:The C 4 is for lobbying you said and for
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, so if we, because if you have just a C3, you're not allowed to really talk to politicians or say like, hey, I really think this policy would be a good policy. So then you have to have a C4 to be able to be able to talk to
Bryan The Botanist:I'd never heard of a C 4 before. I'd only heard of 501 C 3s, you know, all the time, but never heard of a C 4. So that's that right there. I mean, now I'm. More equipped with knowledge on how I can support. Um, how are you guys funded? Is it through donors a hundred percent or is there any federal funding?
Kelly Leviker:There's no federal funders. It's all from donors, from small donations, from our members, from people that
Bryan The Botanist:We're going to include
Kelly Leviker:like, Hey, I like what you're doing. So then they, they do that. So. So that makes it, it's really good because that way we're independent. We're not, we, if we got federal funding, we might have to be a little bit mum on certain topics or these other things. But here we can as an organization decide what do we want to do as the organization.
Bryan The Botanist:Okay. Well,
Kelly Leviker:that's how I started working on plastic pellets. So one other thing is like our philosophy is like, we also kind of highlight some of the issues that are kind of ridiculous, like. It's ridiculous plastic pellets that aren't even being used ever are going into waterways
Bryan The Botanist:yeah, you were telling me that yesterday that like companies are getting away with dumping and you guys have.
Kelly Leviker:yeah, so these are plastic. So these,
Bryan The Botanist:catch wind of that? Were people reporting it? That is, how, how, how do you, how do you track that? All
Kelly Leviker:well, I wouldn't really say like, they're like intentionally dumping. What I would say is they're like, because these things are so small, they're so lightweight, they're so easy to lose. Like if I have some pellets in my hand and I'm holding them like this and a gust of wind comes, They're, they've fallen off my hand. They're no longer there. So, that's why it's so easy to lose them. And so, and then there's like all these places in the plastic supply chain where they transfer the pellets from one facility to another facility. Those are all opportunities for these pellets to be lost. So, the places that make these pellets, they often lose them. If a pellet, while they're making it, falls to the ground, and it gets some dust on it, it's no longer a usable pellet. They would have to clean it. And these, plastic is cheap. So, like, when you're talking about, like, a pellet, it basically has no worth. It only has worth when you're talking about it in massive volumes. So a few pellets lost here, a few pellets lost there, doesn't affect a company's bottom line. So, like, when they're in the man when they're being manufactured, they often fall to the floor, and then they end up in the drainage systems of the factories. So then they get into the water systems that way. Then, in the U. S., they're normally transported by trains. So then you find a lot of the pellets along train tracks where their trains are moving through and generally,
Bryan The Botanist:of them. And then there's, I had no idea.
Kelly Leviker:yeah. And so they're generally transported in like a hopper car. Like if you know how grain is transported, it's this, they're filled from the top and then they use like a vacuum system to like suck it out. And so they use a similar thing with pellets. And so when you're opening those valves. If you're not careful, then pellets can fall to the ground. So you're supposed to put a tray underneath and then you have to be careful to close the valves. So often, for whatever reason, people forget to close the valve. So the train goes and it's just like, leaves a trail of pellets behind it. And then, the U. S. is the biggest exporter of plastic pellets in the world. And so, so they often at ports, they also have like bagging facilities that put these pellets into bags so then they can be easily exported. But if they're not careful, we'll bagging a few pellets lost there. And so this just like each of those places in the plastic supply chain end up losing pellets and supports and then imports. And so there's the. International Maritime Organization, that's the UN arm of international trade. So there right now, I think it's, again don't quote me, I think it's in April. They're meeting, create more regulations around plastic pellets. And so one of the things they're trying to do is try to get it so that when you ship these pellets, you ship them not on the top of the ship, but down below. So that if a ship is in a storm, those containers aren't the ones falling off. Because that's where you find a lot of pellets getting into the water.
Bryan The Botanist:wow. So
Kelly Leviker:Yeah. And then another thing they're trying to do is they're trying to make regulations on how thick the bags are, because as you're like shifting these heavy bags around, if you don't have a thicker plastic, then there gets tears in the bags. And then again, the pellets leak. And then also, then they get shipped to a factory that makes them. They fall to the floor. They're not useful. They again, go into the stormwater and even at recycling facilities, recycling facilities often turn The recycled plastic into pellets. So again, it's another opportunity that pellets can be lost.
Bryan The Botanist:people, I don't know if everyone knows that, you know, it takes oil to make plastic petrochemicals. It's, it's, it's how they make plastic is from oil. It's not from just magic, just like your food is from a farmer, not from the grocery store. Um, no, this education is so important. Um, I don't want to rush you, but I want to make sure we cover all the topics, um, in the next 15 minutes. And Tell us about the citizen based monitoring aspect and the international plastic pellet hunt
Kelly Leviker:Mhm.
Bryan The Botanist:coming events that people can get involved with.
Kelly Leviker:sure. So there's this great organization called Nerdle Patrol. So these plastic pellets can also be called nerdles. So Nerdle Patrol started and it was developed by a scientist in Texas and the scientists developed a scientific method because he found a bunch of pellets. In his area, um, Oh, what's that part of Texas called? It's escaping me. Anyways, he found them on the beach there and he was like, Oh my gosh, there's so many pellets. So then he was like, I'm finding all these pellets. Is anyone else finding pellets? And then it was all these people started writing him about like, Oh my God, we have so many pellets on our beaches. And they're writing from all over the country. So then he's like, I need to set up Nerdle Patrol, which is this map. So anyone can go look for pellets and record what they find on the map. And so then there's an app and so you can just say, okay, and you have to collect for 10 minute periods. So you can collect for 20 minute period and then it will divide it in two for you. So you just record your time, how many pellets you found, and then it will, um, geolocate you. So then it will be a spot on the map to show where this is. So this is a great tool because now we're finding out where are the hot spots of all these. all this pellet pollution. So what we're also doing is we've got two exciting days coming up, and so one is for World Water Day, and that's in Miami, and that's together with Debris Free Oceans and Miami Waterkeeper and Environment Florida. So they're hosting a microplastic cleanup, so it's not just going to be pellets, but all types of microplastics, and that's going to be on March 15th.
Bryan The Botanist:Is that at Crandon Burke? I think we're involved in that.
Kelly Leviker:Yes, it is. It is. It is.
Bryan The Botanist:Reef Reocean shout out to Amanda and Maddie Kaufman, the program director and manager there. They're the ones who introduced us and, um, Maddie or sorry, um, Amanda nominated you and the environment, um, your, your, your, um, your colleague at environment Florida, right. That's involved in Miami water keepers and debris free oceans are all bringing everyone together for this cleanup. And you said it's in mid April and this is going to be Crandon park, which is only about 15 minutes from where I am right now. So we're going to get, we're going to get the word out. We're going to share flyers. We're going to, we're going to promote this podcast and I'll be out there with the sneaker impact team. Cause similar to, you know. The plastics issue we, you know, we're, we're preventing footwear from going into the landfills and oceans. So we're, we're going to be, um, people are gonna be bringing their unwanted sneakers and we'll, we'll, we'll collect them there and provide a home for them and repair them and stuff. So, um, okay. That's awesome. So that's coming up in April. Uh, you have another event too, right?
Kelly Leviker:Yes. So this one, if you're not in Miami or if you are in Miami, either way, it's relevant to you. So this one is International Plastic Pellet Count. And so this one is PERG together with the Water Keepers Alliance. Um, Nerdle Patrol, who I mentioned earlier, and Five Gyres organization, and maybe some other ones are coming on board soon, we'll see. And so we're going, this is where you can go on a plastic pellet hunt for, to raise awareness of this. And we want this event to happen across the U. S. And it's become international because Five Gyres and Water Keepers Alliance, they work internationally. So we should be having some pellet hunts also in Belize and Bangladesh and hopefully some other places too. And, um, sorry, say that again?
Bryan The Botanist:What's the date on that?
Kelly Leviker:That one is May 3rd.
Bryan The Botanist:Okay. So it was the first, the first one's, um, World Water Day, and that's. That's April 14th,
Kelly Leviker:March, uh, 15th.
Bryan The Botanist:March 15th. I'm
Kelly Leviker:Yes. And then May 3rd. And so on May 3rd, that one's open. So if anybody wants to go on a pellet hunt, we have like a wish list of places where we would like you to go on a pellet hunt, which you'd
Bryan The Botanist:doing it in my local river, but cause you just got to start in your backyard. So everyone go in your backyard, the closest waterway or the closest pollution. This is all about pollution too. That's a big key word today. This is pollution of our ecosystem.
Kelly Leviker:hmm. For sure. For sure. And if you're in an area where you might not have like a super high concentration of plastic pellets, that's okay. You can devote like, portion of the cleanup to plastic pellets, and then you could devote another portion of it to, I'm just going to pick up whatever plastic and whatever trash is in my backyard. Super.
Bryan The Botanist:if you're in the middle of the country, it's a little harder, hopefully, but maybe not. Um,
Kelly Leviker:I'm going to be having one in Denver.
Bryan The Botanist:that's awesome. Next time I'm in Denver, we're going to, I want to, I want to, I want to connect with you about, cause I've been out there once or twice. Um, that's awesome. So citizen based monitoring again is where citizens are trained to be scientists and collect data. And that data It's so valuable because it can take a lot of work for scientists to get to all these places that if we equip citizens and give them the tools and the app and the, and you know, then they can help you with reporting and citizen based science and monitoring is a, is a very awesome, powerful tool. Um, so I don't think a lot of people know about that. I mean, I used to do it in Wisconsin for the wetlands, but I was an educator. And so I, I just want to make sure we put a shout out to like, you can be a scientist, whether or not you got a degree in it, you can be a scientist and you can also help be part of the problem, but be part of the solution.
Kelly Leviker:For sure. And zero, if somebody goes out and they see zero pellets, that's still scientifically relevant and important information. So we want to know that too, because that's great. You don't have pellets in your area.
Bryan The Botanist:figure out, yeah, well, um, so the river cleanups, all these, um, all these events coming up are, are what's going on next couple of months, um, how else can people get involved? Like what are some of the social media they can tune into? How do they support Perg?
Kelly Leviker:well, if you do want to get involved in any of these, you're more than welcome anyone to reach out to me. And one thing I'm going to be developing is a bunch of materials for people to help people go out on and do these things. And so it's like you want to just go out with your family, your friends, perfect. That's one level of engagement. You want to organize an event in your community? Super. That's another level. If you want to organize an event and get the media out there? Super, super. And we're there to help you. So, in any case, people can also reach out to me. Um, let me just get my email so that people I'm more than happy to ever answer an email. So that my name is Kay Leviker, L E V I K E R at perg. org. And then other ways, PERG, we've got, um, we've got all the social medias that you can think of. We've got Facebook, we've got LinkedIn, we've got, um, X, I guess.
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah, we're going to share all those links. So, but you're sharing your personal email, which is so amazing. Um, are you coming to Miami or are you going to be able to make it out here in the near future? We'd love to show you sneaker impact. And
Kelly Leviker:I would love to, I would love, I don't have a plan right now too. But I would really love to. I love Miami.
Bryan The Botanist:well, next time you come here, don't forget about, um, what, what, what, what, what we want you to, we want to connect with you and see if we can set up. And we're in your stuff in Denver too. We have a, um, you know, We have a community throughout the us. Um, we work with running stores in Denver and in the Colorado area, and we can connect them with, with Perg and get them involved because runners, runners care a lot about, you know, they're also out there and they don't want, you know, to, it's heartbreaking, you see. And, and it, whether it's a runner dropping their own trash, we've been talking a lot about too, which is your go gels and your things that you use while you're running, whether it's in a race or not. You should never drop that on the ground. Just put it in your shorts until you get home or find the nearest. Garbage can, because otherwise, unfortunately, you're part of the problem. Um, it's no one else's job to pick up, you know, your own stuff. Um, so it's so simple, you know, like these are things we teach our children. Um, because you know, we're raising them to be good citizens and earth citizens. We're stewards. You know, that's, that's a theme we keep repeating to it. Sneaker on sneaker impact news is we're all earth stewards. It's our planet. Um, that's our home. There's no planet B, you know, like, I don't know. I was watching the movie Wally. I'm going to go back to that same analogy I was watching the other day, as well as wild robot, which I both very powerful movies. Have you seen wild and
Kelly Leviker:I have. It was,
Bryan The Botanist:examining these issues, you know, of technology and human impact on the environment and how nature is so important to protect. Um, because otherwise we can't replace it, you know, and all of a sudden if the earth can't, you know, even sustain plant life or fungi, which are so important, or it's just completely polluted, then, you know, what are we going to do? Go on a ship. I mean, that's no fun. I don't want to be on a ship.
Kelly Leviker:no, and the earth is so beautiful.
Bryan The Botanist:And then they eventually come back to earth once, you know, life can, you know, be sustained, but, and they realize that, you know, the, the wrong of their ways. We don't want to be judgy on, on, on this podcast. We just want to raise awareness because this is a real problem and it is affecting fertility rates and other things that cancers are linked to this, you know, and other. Problems from developmental to, you know, um, it just, it accumulates and that's not a good thing to have plastics accumulating in your body. So we need to keep talking about it until we can start to get more, what, what type of, um, work, you know, is, is PIRG doing on a federal level with some of the legislature?
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, I think, well, what we were working on last year was the Plastic Pellet Free Waters Act, and we're hoping that that act will be reintroduced this year. And that act, it would prohibit companies from spilling pellets into waterways, so the companies that make, use, or transport plastic pellets. So we're hoping that that is going to happen. That will be reintroduced in a bipartisan manner this year. That's our hope. Um, and then also I think what we're also doing is just like, what can we, there's lots of different ways that change can happen. It can happen at a federal level. It can happen at a state level. It can happen at the community level. It can happen at an individual level. So we're also doing a lot of exploration of what can happen in those other areas. State, local. So, but we're also working on federally on like water on wildlife crossings and right to repair bills in various states. And so there's a lot of stuff we're doing, but right now with plastic pellets, we're kind of just waiting. Yeah. Well, no, we're not waiting. That's not true. We are not just waiting. We're still doing, like we're organizing all these different days to help raise general awareness, but that's, we've kind of just shifted gears a little bit to working, raising. Raising general awareness and doing more research.
Bryan The Botanist:California does have a law on the books, is what you had mentioned.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, California has a law on the books. Yeah, and then Texas has tried a law three different times. And it looks like they were probably gonna try another one this year. Illinois has a law that, um, was introduced this year. Virginia had a law that they introduced this year. Fortunately, it didn't pass, but it looks like that might again happen next year. So, and I think the more we talk about this, the more people can start to be like pushing for it. And even at like a city level, you can also push for, what do I want Denver to do? Can Denver say, I don't want this. This is because it kind of becomes a black hole. You can use the Clean Water Act, but there's plastic. Plastic isn't specifically specified. So there's
Bryan The Botanist:Versus like and then PCBs and other pollutants that end up in the water from like paper mills and other plants. And, um, you know, I know that in Wisconsin we have some. We had some issues with pollution from, you know, whether it was forestry or mining or whatever, and they were able to pass laws. I also know in Florida cities have passed laws due to citizens getting together coalitions, organizations like shout out to, um, surf rider and clean Miami beach and debris, free oceans together, those organizations and others got, you know, the balloon. Um, ban in the state of Florida on a state level, but started out locally in certain cities as well as banning styrofoam in Miami beach, banning plastic straws, banning even plastic bags in certain cities. And then once more cities get that law in place, you know, and certainly we've seen also that it can get repealed unfortunately by. the state government. So we have to get that snowball effect where the state and federal sees that enough people care, because if it's a priority, then they're going to do something about it. But if no one cares about it, they're not going to focus on it. Um, and it's going to be out of, it's not out of sight, out of mind. But what's happening is now people are very concerned about the oceans, but they should also be concerned with the oceans are most of our planet, but that we also have to be concerned about the wildlife, you know, we talked about, it's not, and human life and, and about the seven generations ahead of us, you know, what type of health problems they're going to have because of the compounding, you know, plastics didn't exist before a certain year, 1910 or whenever the petrochemical, do you know the exact date of the plastics origin? Got to be.
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, I don't know the exact date, but I know there was like, there's a, at least a story. It's like the, um, Bowl, not bowl. What do you call it? Um, pool. The pool balls used to be made of ivory. And then the first kind of objects is like ivory. We can't, that's not sustainable, which is good. We don't need pool balls of ivory. Um, but they made them out of plastic and that was kind of like the first types and Bakelite was like a first type of plastic. And then I don't think they really became like the single use plastic thing. First started in like the 50s and 60s, even though they like slowly started gaining traction. But I think there's like a statistic and it says like half of the world's plastics that we've ever made have been made roughly in the last 20 years. So It's, like, and
Bryan The Botanist:the best way to put it. I mean, there used to be glass bottles for everything, like even Coca Cola and all these companies, it was glass. You know, it does take energy, but at least glass breaks down to sand, right? And, you know, um,
Kelly Leviker:it's much easier to recycle. So
Bryan The Botanist:well, you know, it's something, again, that it's, it's a little polarizing because people, some people are like, well, geez, you know, there's so many problems in the world. Deforestation. You know, um, war, uh, poverty, you know, plastic, you know, what are, you know, which one do we go after? You know, we have to look at all the problems. We can't turn a blind eye. And I'm so grateful for your work, Kelly, um, that you took on as your life's mission. Um, what, what does the future hold for you and PIRG?
Kelly Leviker:I don't know, but I know I am going to
Bryan The Botanist:What are your hopes and dreams? What's 5 to 10 year outlook like? Where would you like to see, you know, this, this, this conversation be in 5 to 10 years from now, in the year 2030 and 2035, if you were able to wave a magic wand?
Kelly Leviker:feel like there's momentum gaining, like, like he can become a cultural issue if he so want to make it. But I feel like in general, people see a lot of plastic as wasteful. And I don't think, I mean, there's obviously some camps, but I feel like. There's also a lot of common ground. So what I'm, my hope is that in five, 10 years that that common ground of like, you know, this is just a common sense thing. We don't need to be having all this wasteful plastic everywhere. So I hope that just gains momentum and then. And that's, that's where we are is we're like, okay, and it's actually becomes a general consensus and there's movement behind that. And I think, you know, even in states where there's preemption laws on plastic and everywhere, there's people that are doing a lot of stuff. So I feel like there's a lot of momentum, even if you just look at, like, if you're just looking solely at what's happening politically. You could get disheartened potentially, but then you look at what people are doing and there's so much power in that and I, I don't see anything like You know, no matter where you are on the political divide, this microplastic, like those, those chemicals that are leeching into things, that's going to affect you. So it's not an inherently partisan issue, I don't think. I feel like this is something that we can, like, we're talking with a lot of trout fishermen, and they're like, yeah, why would they want to be fishing trout with plastic in them? That
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah, I've, I've met fish before trout growing up. I was a fisherman quite a bit. So
Kelly Leviker:So it's like that's, so there, I feel like we can go into our camps, but we can also, there's so much common ground we can also find. So that's, I hope,
Bryan The Botanist:you know, citizens are doing so many inspiring things. We don't need to wait for the government, but we need to demand that the government does more too, because we need to hold some companies responsible that, you know, that they should, you know, help, you know, in the sense that they're profiting. And this is, you know, something that it's overproduction in some cases and overconsumption, you know, and. You know, it's something that I think if we just encourage people, we don't have to have laws and regulations. If we just get it into the media more and into, you know, the people, this is a problem. Like let's not wait until the oceans are, you know, over past the, what's the, you know, the, that point where it's like the tipping point, you know, where we can't go back.
Kelly Leviker:no, we we definitely, we we can't wait for that. We can't, we can't, we have to act way before that, eh?
Bryan The Botanist:solution, you know, I know that there's some fungi that are breaking down some plastics in the ocean that they found a certain species, that's not, that's just like a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny amount. That's not the global problem, you know, and there's no magical solution to our plastic. We have to stop. You know, buying it so much, I think, you know, start using more, you know, so let's, let's, let's create that snowball of, of, of positive change through citizen action. And, and then the government will see that and the voting power and the people going to all these grocery stores. And I won't just throw Publix under the bus. I'll say Walmart. I'll say all the big retailers. They all got a Coca Cola, PepsiCo. They all need to start thinking and they probably are thinking about it. But, you know, and it's a big problem and I'm sure they, but like, we need a different system, you know, in place for these building blocks. So we don't have to use a, what's the name of the, the pallet again? It's called the, did you say nerdle?
Kelly Leviker:can call it a nurdle.
Bryan The Botanist:Is that N E R D L
Kelly Leviker:Yes.
Bryan The Botanist:nerdle? Okay. That's the first time I've heard that. Well,
Kelly Leviker:It's a goofy word. That's why we've gone with like, maybe plastic pellets is a better word, because that kind of like simplistically describes what they are. And the nurdle is just so cute.
Bryan The Botanist:is. It sounds like, yeah. Um, what's the name of the app that people can use to track plastic?
Kelly Leviker:Yeah, so there's an app that it's, sorry, a nurdle patrol.
Bryan The Botanist:Nerdle patrol. Okay. I'm going to get that app.
Kelly Leviker:It's perfect.
Bryan The Botanist:cool. Well, I mean, we've had a great conversation today. Is there any other topics you want to cover? Um, any other passions you want to share? I know we were talking yesterday about botanical illustrations. You're also an artist.
Kelly Leviker:Yes, I love doing botanical illustrations, a lost art. I, I think, um, I could go on about that, but I, I think one thing for me that I really love about botanical illustrations is I find it so meditative to have to sit with a plant for so long and really observe all its details. Like you really start to, and you see how the plants move because you can't do a botanical illustration in a couple hours. You spend days with a plant and then you're like, Ah, my leaf was like this, and now my leaf is like this, and you're like, oh, and it's also turned like this, and so you notice all these, like, minute details on it. So it's just a way to meditate with plants, really.
Bryan The Botanist:I love that. Slowing us down and observing nature. And there's so much going on. There's a secret life to everything, to the soil, to plants, plants communicate through fungi and through chemical signals and help protect each other and communicate and share nutrients they share. You know, isn't that interesting? And they, they have a symbiosis with many different things like ants and, you know, and it's a complex ecosystem and, you know, it's, it's, it's a very delicate balance yet nature is so strong and resilient, but we can't, um, we can't, uh, just, you know, It's not like, it feels like it's almost like a boxing match between humankind and nature. Like, and you know, that's, that's not a good thing. You know, it should be a big hug, you know, in the sense of like where, where, you know, love is what can help heal the earth and love is also consideration, you know, and thoughtfulness and kindness and, you know, helping animals, helping, you know, ecosystems is so important. Um. You know, don't ever get discouraged. You know, when I go out and clean up trash sometimes and see people throw a trash out their window, it discourages me, you know, but it doesn't, you know, stop me, it just, you know, it's just a short term like reaction that like, well, you know, maybe. They're not in the same place in their life, you know, um, and they're just, you know, some people are living day to day and, but we got to get out of that survival mentality and, and, and realize that our earth is our, is a living ecosystem, the entire thing. Week and it seems like it's such a big planet, but it's actually a very small planet. Um, these are just some of my quick thoughts What what type of inspiring thoughts would you like to leave the sneaker impact? Um audience and community with today?
Kelly Leviker:I think something similar, like, I think you have a lot of power people as your group, as your community, there are some, like, there's some battles that are like, you know, there, and that seem impossible, but there's also things you can do here and recognizing what you can do right in front of you has a big impact. And that's how you can grow. And I also really agree with the thing. Like you see somebody litter or something, it, it can be a very divisive thing, but it's also an opportunity to teach or to learn. And if you are angry or you give that person that anger, that's what you're teaching them. And so that's not going to be an effective way to message your ultimate goal, which is to have a beautiful relationship with. nature for the whole of humanity. So also thinking like through your actions, like, what are we doing that can help build those positive interactions? And then thinking, you know, even like in these very divided times, there's not an enemy. There's just like, there's another human that has a family that has their life, their cares. And we can, what are those things that we can do to help forge
Bryan The Botanist:Yeah, they might not understand the plastic problem.
Kelly Leviker:No. And so there's no,
Bryan The Botanist:Hurt the planet and and screwing them isn't going to help It's almost going to cause the worst problem because you're going to get in a fight or they're gonna You know get super angry too and then you're just spreading anger, you know, so just You know, just pick up the trash and, and, and do everyone, you know, like I consider myself like, you know, like I picked up a wrench this morning on the ground when I was on my run. And like, I was like, Wally, I found a wrench on my run. I brought it home. I put it in my toolkit. You know, I see a water bottle, I'm picking it up and I'm, you know, Wally puts it in his stomach and he crunches it up and then he creates, you know, and that's his job is to clean up after all the humans. But, you know, we can be Wally. Um, you know, and, and Wally didn't scream at anyone. Um, you know. Uh, so, you know, I, I, I used to get really angry. I didn't, you know, I'd be like, this is my neighborhood. Why are you doing that? You know, it's a neighbor. They're like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. You know, you're right. Sometimes it's like a teenager and, you know, but at the same time, it wasn't right for me to yell. I'm just going to pick it up in the future and just keep going on my way because you're just, it's just more pain in your heart that you're carrying. And we're all one, you know, human. you know, consciousness, I believe. I think that we all have, there's a singularity in consciousness that we're all part of. And, you know, we're all, you know, equally beautiful and have a right to live. Um, and, and no one should be judged. You just, you know, just keep going on your way and try to lead a path of, of kindness. And I think it will multiply in the world. So your work is so important because Um, I don't think there's enough people focused on this issue, so I'm so glad you reached out to me because we've never had a discussion on microplastics yet, or plastics in general. Uh, we've done cleanup topics, but, um, you know, with, with debris Free oceans, yes, we've talked a little about the plastics issue and clean Miami Beach, but to really dive deep today, I, I hope people understand that, that they can reach out, they can get involved and they can do something locally. And you have these two awesome events coming up, so, uh,
Kelly Leviker:But come join.
Bryan The Botanist:awesome.
Kelly Leviker:Well, thank you so much for having me and you're doing great work. Thank you.
Bryan The Botanist:Thanks, Kelly. We're going to have you back on in the future. I, I say that to everyone because I, I want to keep bringing these guests on that are making an impact, like whether it's six months or one year from now, please reach out so we can keep in contact about how PIRG is doing and, and the plastics, um, cleanup and, and this may and March, you know, March, March. We're going to be out there in Crandon park. So all my Miami people, make sure you make sure you can come out and help us on that day and spread the word that we can, we can, we can get the media involved and, and really shine a light on this issue for a world water day. And then the, um, international plastic hunt in, uh, in may. So thank you, Kelly.
Kelly Leviker:Thank you so much.
Bryan The Botanist:All right. We'll keep up the great work.
Kelly Leviker:Thank you. You too.
Bryan The Botanist:Have a great day. We'll see you guys soon. Have a good one. Bye.
