Sneaker Impact News

Andy Polk on Footwear Innovation, Sustainability, and Industry Insights

• Bryan The Botanist, Bryan Huberty • Season 1 • Episode 46

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Join us in this engaging episode of Sneaker Impact News as we welcome Andy Polk, Senior Vice President at the Footwear Distributors & Retailers of America (FDRA). Andy discusses his extensive role in shaping the future of the footwear industry, driving innovation, sustainability, and strategy. Learn about the FDRA's mission, the complexities of footwear tariffs, and the push towards circularity and sustainability in shoe design. Andy also shares insights from his career, the importance of thoughtful consumer practices, and the evolution of the footwear business in a changing global landscape. Don't miss out on this comprehensive look at the footwear industry and what lies ahead!

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Bryan The Botanist:

​Welcome back to Sneaker Impact News. Today my special guest is Andy Polk. Andy is the Senior Vice President at the FDRA and A one man think tank, helping shape the future of the footwear industry. He drives industry-wide innovation, sustainability, and strategy, helping shoe companies navigate, change, and stay ahead. Andy also leads FDRA's marketing team covering communications, reporting and 30 plus annual events, all while launching new initiatives that keep the industry moving forward. A former foreign policy advisor on Capitol Hill. Andy holds a Master's in International Relations from the London School of Economics and a BA in Business Administration and Political Science from Gardner Webb University. He's the founder of the Footwear Innovation Foundation and co-host of the Footwear Industry's Weekly Shoe-in Show Podcast. Now 500 episodes strong. Andy, welcome to the Sneaker Impact News Podcast

Andy Polk:

Thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bryan The Botanist:

Awesome. Where are you joining us from today?

Andy Polk:

Um, I'm joining from Reston, Virginia, which is just outside Washington, dc. Um, and for folks who may not be familiar, Reston is home to where Amazon Web Services headquarters are, Google Cloud, Microsoft Cloud. So all the cloud computing that kind of took off during COVID, uh, is based here in Reston, which makes for a very interesting interaction with other professionals where. I talk to people about what they do, and it's a lot of coding and software and executives, and they ask what I do and I say footwear and people always get very confused. So it's kind of fun for me in some ways to, um, to interact with certain people in the, in the area here.

Bryan The Botanist:

Well, we're all about footwear at Sneaker Impact, as you know. Um, sustainability and giving shoes a second life in sneakers. Um, so tell us what is the FDRA?

Andy Polk:

Yeah. So FDRA is the footwear distributors and retailers of America. It's a long one, but FDRA, um, it's, it's, we've been in existence for about 80 years. We're the Footwear industry's Business and Trade Association, which basically means we, we do several things on behalf of the industry. Um, we're, we're governed by the industry itself, so we're established by footwear companies and. Our border footwear CEOs and executives, uh, from retailers, brands, et cetera. Uh, here in the US we're about, about 98% of all footwear companies are members by retail sales. So whether they're a brand or retailer, um, one of our main functions is lobbying on behalf of the industry, which is why I'm just outside Washington, dc I lived in DC for about 20 years, and as you said earlier, I worked on Capitol Hill, um, and our team, um, part of our core team, myself, Matt Priest, our CEO, and, and Thomas Crockett, who's our VP of Government Affairs, have background in government. And so we lobby on behalf of the industry, um, especially important these days with tariffs increasing, um, which is a direct cost to footwear companies. So that impacts jobs, it impacts product, you know, quality. Um, and it, and it impacts kind of our innovation, uh, our industry innovation. Can we make better shoes that are lighter, have more energy return? Et cetera. So when you have tariffs added to that, it makes it really hard to innovate, um, because you're trying to squeeze as much as you can out of what you have. Um,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah.

Andy Polk:

so, um, so we lobby and then we also, we do a number of events. Um, we, and we send out a lot of newsletters and industry intelligence. So we track retail prices. We, we look at inventory that's coming into the US where it may be coming from. So, you know, we think about sneakers. You know, when I first started doing this job, China was the largest Sneaker manufacturing location in the world for the US market. It's now Vietnam. So it shifted.

Bryan The Botanist:

Hmm.

Andy Polk:

And so we look at, you know, where, where sneakers are made or where dress shoes are made, where kids shoes are made. So we can segment those things out and kind of have a, a better understanding of our industry and where people may be shifting, what the costs may be, how to optimize what we're doing so that we can make better shoes. Ship'em faster, get'em to consumers more efficiently. Um, so a lot of what we do is really just trying to strengthen the industry, um, around decision making, like giving them better data and then helping them analyze where things are shifting in order to make better business decisions. So that's kind of a lot of what we do at FDRA, kind of a, kind of at a, at a base level. And then, and then within that, there are a lot of just buckets that we do because the industry relies on us to build programs for support. So we work on random things that people don't think about, but like chemical management. So when you think about running shoes, you know, I think it's something like, um, if you, if you go high end, there you go. If you're wearing Hokas like that, they could have 120 different materials and components that go into that shoe. The average shoe has about 60. And so when you're talking

Bryan The Botanist:

Wow. That's a lot. I didn't think it was that many. I thought it might be 10.

Andy Polk:

it's a ton. It's a ton. And then you gotta think about glues that adhesives.'cause you wanna make sure that the shoe. Maintains its, uh, integrity as we like to say. You know, the midsole doesn't compress too much, but you get a lot of good performance for longer miles. So all that's determining, you know, when they design footwear in particular, like that's the determining factor is like, how, what, what are we asking the shoe to perform in the foot, right? So you're a marathon runner, so, yeah, so,

Bryan The Botanist:

I've seen those tests where they do the, you know, how many they, they make it the shoe

Andy Polk:

there's a lot of just things that go into that. And so we work a lot on materials. We work, work on sustainability, we work on chemical compliance. So anything, everything,

Bryan The Botanist:

everything for the footwear industry, it

Andy Polk:

yeah, it's a lot. And I, you know, I'd never say we're, we're experts on anything, but we're specialists and I think we try really hard to be. Um, very good interlockers, are in some way like a filter, right? We know who the experts are. So if a company is like, I'm experiencing this problem, or we have these issues in our supply chain, we kind of have seen it before or know who to point them to or assist them. Um, so I, you know, in some ways we're like a general practitioner doctor, right? Like we know all the ailments of the normal stuff. If there's some specialty problem you have, we have referrals. We can do that too. We'll, we'll still take the copay. Um, but, um, but we can refer people here and there. And so, um, that's kind, you know, and

Bryan The Botanist:

but you're also, um, you're at the pulse of the industry and you're in Washington, dc The lobbying is so important in the sense that, you know. There's a lot, you know, of support needed, um, for, for this to, you know, be economically viable. Um, how does sustainability build into this?

Andy Polk:

um, well it, it is one of those things where I would say. There's some companies that have been working on sustainability and believe in sustainability, you know, as their, their core ethos. So I think it's someone like Keen, um, which builds product and is very thoughtful in their customer base or like outdoor enthusiasts. So there's some of that tied into that. But like there's companies who have been doing this for decades who are, who are tied into that. But sustainability for the entire industry, I would say probably like seven or eight years ago, we started having discussions as an industry and, and what is sustainability? And I, I'm not sure we really have a good definition yet, um, but we've kind of,

Bryan The Botanist:

circ, I mean, we love the circularity. That's what we're working on.

Andy Polk:

yeah, yeah. Um, but we, we kind of pulled people together and we got everybody into a room and we said, all right, like, how do we talk to each other about

Bryan The Botanist:

Hmm.

Andy Polk:

What are we most concerned about? And, and a lot of it started with packaging.

Bryan The Botanist:

Sure.

Andy Polk:

you think

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah. Yeah. The boxes and all the stuff inside the

Andy Polk:

Listen, anybody who's got an Amazon package where they ordered a pack of batteries and it comes in a box built, you know, big enough for an elephant knows there's just waste there. It's just stupid, right? So how do we address what, like low hanging fruits? So start with packaging of

Bryan The Botanist:

Absolutely.

Andy Polk:

like that. Like better optimize it. And then it went into the product itself. Like what kind of materials are we choosing? How are we constructing these shoes? You know, how in, in our factories, like how, how are they working and making sure that, um. When they're, when they're making the product, they're doing it really efficiently without releasing a lot of carbon in the air or wasting water. Because that's one thing for footwear too, is we use a lot of water when we're making midsoles and, and developing products. So how do we use, use resources appropriately but not abuse them? And so that's kind of where we started to build different programs and around within that then started to become like the last, like three or four years, the circularity out of that. Right? So I think circularity is kind of the holy grail of

Bryan The Botanist:

That's the holy grail. Yeah.

Andy Polk:

that's the holy grail of trying to figure out like, all right, like how we make a shoe really determines how we disassemble a shoe and what we do with it at the end of life. And so that conversation's, um, been echoing a lot now in our industry the last several years of saying, okay, well we need to figure out like how we thoughtfully redesign what we're doing. Um, and then towards the end of life, right? So it starts at the design stage in many ways. And then like, I think what we've been seeing and what you guys are doing, and you know, mo credit to Mo for like leaning into this is like, there needs to be both sides. We need to design better and then we need the infrastructure at the end of life. And it's kind of moving towards the middle now on both ends.

Bryan The Botanist:

I love it. Yep. And I, I remember at TRE the last few years, meeting some of the biggest brands in the running industry for shoes and footwear, and they're all talking now about how in the design process they're designing the shoe so that when it's at end of life. They can either take back and help to recite, re, you know, repurpose the shoe, well, uh, grind it down. But what they said was that one company in particular, they hit it with some type of like, microwave, you know, energy and it loosens up the po, the, uh, the glues. And then most of the pieces come apart into like segmented, you know, pieces that are like easy to then, you know, versus having 12 or, you know, 3D four different types of foam. You know, I don't know if you can tell us how many exactly. Foams. I think there there's three or four, but then there's a rubber, there's a textile, but you know, ways that can design it so it breaks down quicker and they can,

Andy Polk:

Yeah, that's right. The, the foam's been the biggest

Bryan The Botanist:

deconstructed, deconstructed

Andy Polk:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I've been in labs where they do that. They have been testing out different ways to microwave to get the glue to be able to pull it off. It's still very manual in some ways, but I'll, I'll say this, like over the past year or so, I've seen a lot of technological advances where, um, we were hopeful that that would happen, but I think the technology is gonna keep getting better

Bryan The Botanist:

and the 3D printing, I mean, look at what like some of these companies now are doing

Andy Polk:

Yeah, that, that's a good point because it, there is a, this discussion around like, how many materials do we need in shoes, right? And it's a, it's a larger engineering question as to what you want the footwear to do. But if you're running, if you're doing a lot of running, then you need a lot of foam and you need a heavy construction. But we can use better glues and adhesives that can more easily disassemble. Like we shouldn't have to microwave a pair of shoes to, to pull them apart. Right. Um, so I, I think there's a lot of work being done around that. Um, so it's, it's kind of sustainability and innovation are kind of hand in hand at this point. Um, it's looking at not just how we make, uh, shoes with better energy return, um, or can last longer, more durable, but like, what are those materials and how, how is that, how do we measure the impact on the earth that we're

Bryan The Botanist:

You're right. It's such a complicated calculation and hard to please everyone or make everyone happy because I'm a runner. You know, we were talking about the Chicago Marathon, which I ran three quarters of two days ago. We're not gonna keep it at that only. Um, I made it about 19 miles guys. But, um, I love energy return. I love comfort. I've had two Achilles surgeries. I'm, you know, in my late forties. I'm run a lot of marathons in my life, so I love that foam, but I'm also an environmentalist. I would love a shoe that just completely decomposed and broke down on the earth, but that's not where we're at. And there are shoes sure, that some companies are making, not in large production, but they're using materials that are either recovered plastics, and you can actually use that now in the new shoes that we're talking about. The high performance shoes by some of the top companies in the world. Recovered plastics, recovered foam from the sea, you know, which I think is beautiful, um, and important work. Um, but you know, there's not yet a performance running shoe that is in my eyes, environmentally friendly, in the truest sense. And I have to be honest with myself, you know, you know, here I am eat, I eat as healthy as I can and I wanna take care of the planet. Uh,'cause there's no planet B and we are the stewards of the planet. And you know, it's a whole ecosystem. The earth, it's living. You know, we, we don't own it, you know, it's our home. And we need to take care of it. Um, how do we, it it is just an evolution, right? It's not like an easy

Andy Polk:

I mean, you do what, you know, there's the whole saying where it's like, where do you start? And it's like you start where you're at and with, with what you have before you, right? And so we can't boil the ocean in some ways of trying to get to a fully biodegradable circular shoe. Um, because ultimately if, you know, if we try to do that now where, you know, a performance running shoe, um, and you started running in that and you realize it was not comparable, it didn't have the comfort, didn't have the return, it fell apart, you got

Bryan The Botanist:

last more than 200 miles. Yeah.

Andy Polk:

then you would, you would never buy another sustainable shoe, right? So it is gotta be, it's, it is a, it is a hard needle to thread, but it's gotta be, it's gotta be meet all the expectation of the consumer and be better for the environment at the same time. And so it's a really difficult, you know, kind of thing. Uh, you know, I kind of compare it to. Like a DJ who's turning up the treble and the base and like where, you know, the equalizer, right? Like there's, all these things are having to, in the engineering department figure out in terms of material science. So I think where you start with is making sure that you make shoes that last

Bryan The Botanist:

mm-hmm.

Andy Polk:

So I think, you know, if you can get an extra a hundred miles out of a pair of shoes, I think, and keep it out of a landfill, like that's, that's great. I think donating like Sneaker Impact, like, you know, when, when, as a consumer you think the shoe is at it, it is at the end of its life. Someone else in another country or a different socioeconomic environment actually still thinks those shoes are really valuable. So how do we keep those in circulation and keep them going until they are actually at the end of the life, the, the end of the actual useful, valuable life of that product before we think about grinding and doing things like that. So, um,

Bryan The Botanist:

Then grinding and post-consumer use is, I think, part of the solution. You know, until we have materials that will offer the, as we talked about, the benefits that

Andy Polk:

And I think, I think we're getting there. I mean, I'm, you know, you got some samples here that you can look at where people are, are doing midsoles or doing insoles. You're starting to see some ability to do a grind and then put it back into something. Um, and, you know, for a long time, I think Nike has done this with Nike Grind, but they did a lot of playgrounds.

Bryan The Botanist:

mm-hmm.

Andy Polk:

Um, they, they're one of the largest, and I don't know if it's still the case, but, um, they would sell the carpet backing, uh, at Home Depot and Nike was the number one seller of carpet backing, you know, so it's the padding underneath the

Bryan The Botanist:

that makes sense.

Andy Polk:

So,

Bryan The Botanist:

did that though, you know, and I, I, I thought that they were using, not Nike in particular, but I, I thought that the industry was using for some form of padding, but that really makes sense for the back of

Andy Polk:

Yep. So there, there's been that, I think for our industry it's difficult because most of our manufacturing is still done overseas, uh, for a number of reasons. But about 99% of all shoes sold in the US are made overseas. And, um,

Bryan The Botanist:

99.

Andy Polk:

99%. So you've got 1% that still makes here. Um, in terms of sneakers. There's still some manufacturing that is done here, but for the most part, and it, it's a number of considerations. It's cost, it's quality, you know, um, and, and it's just kind of lack of skillset here in the US and infrastructure. We've gotta rebuild that. And so we work on that as well. Um, our work with domestic manufacturers a lot on, you know, scalability and issues and, and, and things like that. But, um, but the challenge for the, the industry really is, okay, if we're, if we have built this infrastructure where we can grind these. Like, we've been working a lot to sell that to other industries to use. And ultimately if we really want circularity, we have to build capacity in the US to

Bryan The Botanist:

That's so true.

Andy Polk:

ground up product and put it back into shoes. So that's kind of the next step in evolution is as I see, you know, the designers and the engineers are getting better and the infrastructure and technology is getting better. At some point when those things come together, we need something else. And that is gonna be more factories in the US that can take these materials and turn it into footwear products. Right? We, we want to be, that's, that's kind of legitimate, full circularity in some ways where it's like, you know, a closed loop system. There's also some technologies happening where, um, I see some companies making, um, biodegradable shoes. They're more casual, but there's still some biodegradable materials. Yep, exactly. So we have that.

Bryan The Botanist:

and the,

Andy Polk:

Yeah, exactly. And then we have, then we have some companies that are making, like TPUs, you mentioned 3D, but you have TPU that you can melt down and put back

Bryan The Botanist:

and TPU Is that, is that, that's not the nitro nitrogen infused foam. Like tell people what TPU

Andy Polk:

Uh, it's just thermo, it's thermoplastic kind of foam. And so there's EVA, there's PU, there's TPU, like there's a

Bryan The Botanist:

And then now the big thing is nitrogen, isn't it? And like, Puma and like Nike and, and Adidas, aren't they all putting like nitrogen?

Andy Polk:

There, yeah. There's talk of that, um, how much that actually improves the shoe versus what the marketing story is. I don't really know, um, to be

Bryan The Botanist:

And the, and the plates, obviously the, uh, the carbon

Andy Polk:

are, yeah, the carbon plates are legitimate. I think those are like really, people are leaning

Bryan The Botanist:

Oh yeah, I've worn them. and they, they work. You just have to be careful with them.'cause you can get injured if you don't use them wisely.

Andy Polk:

So I think, um, so yeah, there's a, there's a lot of material sciences happening. Um, there's a lot of. But there's a lot of challenges that remain. And so when I talk to companies and they're saying, you know, benchmark where we're at in this journey that we all have as an industry, um, we try to set some standards to help people make better choices. We call it our environmentally preferred material guides. So we're saying, you know, if you have a leather, can you, you know, um, can you choose it from a, a tannery that uses less chemicals? If you're using cotton, can you use, you know, recycled cotton? If you are using polyester, can you do 20% recycled poly? You know, so it's like these different movements are on biomaterials and recycled

Bryan The Botanist:

And there's, um, there's a leather, I think, uh, made out of, um, mushroom mycelium.

Andy Polk:

Yes, there is.

Bryan The Botanist:

and the cars are using it nowadays, sometimes for the seats, and then people are, who are very conscious or trying to, but yeah, it's still not scalable, you know? And so, you know, and I, I got a degree, you know, in botany and ecology, so I'm passionate about, you know, botanical resources. But, um, that's so cool that the, you know, you're at the heartbeat of the industry there and you're, you're, you're the newsletters, you're sending out the intelligence. It sounds like you're one of the people that understands this really big, like the footwear industry is so big that I don't think people even understand how big it is. Alright.

Andy Polk:

Yeah, I think,

Bryan The Botanist:

Everyone wears shoes and it's one of the biggest things in the world.

Andy Polk:

we import in about 2.5 billion pairs of shoes every

Bryan The Botanist:

2.5 billion. Wow.

Andy Polk:

so that's like seven. It's around six or seven pairs per every man, woman, and child in the United States. It's a lot of shoes. No one comes close. I think Europe may be two and a half or three pairs per every man, woman, and child in Europe on their side. That's the next largest thing. So we're a

Bryan The Botanist:

I'm gonna put that 2.5 billion in my head.'cause I talk to people a lot about the thir. Only 13% get recycled and about 500 million in the US are thrown into landfills every year. But we think that's a very small underestimate, but

Andy Polk:

Yeah, it's hard to say. It's hard to say. Yeah. And we, we've also tried to get at a number, it's like how much is

Bryan The Botanist:

you're never gonna know. Exactly. I tell people that all the time. We just

Andy Polk:

It's because the closet space, right?

Bryan The Botanist:

don't need to know exactly either. It's just we have to understand there's a problem there and it's a big problem. Only 13% are recycled, but 90 plus percent of people want to recycle. We need to make it easy. We need to teach them, we need to have municipalities getting involved. So that's what, you know, I know Mo is, is and we're, you know, we're really pushing that down here in Florida. Um, but

Andy Polk:

it's definitely moving in that direction where there can be like centralized kind of recycling. And I think that's what it's gonna take is, um, we, I would say five years ago we had conversations with retailers about trying to set up, um, take back programs.

Bryan The Botanist:

Mm-hmm.

Andy Polk:

Um, a lot of people balked at the time'cause they're like, I don't want to create a reverse supply chain. I don't wanna deal with it. Um, but then slowly but surely over the last, you know, three, four or five years or so, that narrative has shifted. And I think a lot of retailers have take back

Bryan The Botanist:

Because their customers care about Right. Social responsibility and

Andy Polk:

impact box in the store, you know,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah. They're not, they don't have to do it by themselves. They got

Andy Polk:

That's right. So there's, there's these systems now that, that we didn't have. So I think there's, there's good progress that's taking

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah.

Andy Polk:

but we need more incentive,

Bryan The Botanist:

Hmm.

Andy Polk:

um, we need more centralization. And that's the kind, the problem is recycling is a cost to companies. So in order to mitigate the cost or make it more affordable or how, you know, however you wanna talk about it in like business parlance, We just need more help in some ways, and we need more centralization. Um, and we need a more educated consumer at the same time. Um, but it's all, you know, it's all

Bryan The Botanist:

so true. the education is key. People don't even understand the problem until they get it in front of them. We were recently on the CBS evening news and hopefully that got in front of 6 million people or so that night. Um, and you know, I didn't understand the problem till I started working for Sneaker Impact about three years ago as one of their educators. And I'm also the manager of our retail running store network of 500 running stores. So, um, but basically I didn't understand the problem and I was a scientist with, you know, and I also was a runner for 20 years. I didn't understand the problem at all. I didn't even think about where my shoes went. 90% of people don't think, or you know about

Andy Polk:

Well, I think it, yeah, I think if you think of your common life, it's not something that is

Bryan The Botanist:

You're just trying to pay the bills. You're trying to get, you know,

Andy Polk:

I think when we think about environmentalism, we think a lot more about like oil fields and

Bryan The Botanist:

you're right.

Andy Polk:

and, and energy issues. Yeah, those are the biggest kind of purveyors of environmental issues and things like that. But footwear, again, like we just said, like where can we start? We talk about as an industry, but as a person, as a human, we have these things in our house, so what do we do with them? And it behooves us to

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah. Like the washing machine and the dryer where you figure out how to recycle those.

Andy Polk:

right. So I think, you know, and, and I'll say too, like the biggest kind of shift I've seen in the last three years are things like Apple and, and Microsoft and Google now taking back all the phones, but they're, but there's an incentive for them to take it back because copper prices are

Bryan The Botanist:

Oh yeah. The rare Earth

Andy Polk:

minerals are up, things like that. So they're taking it back and that's an environmental good for all of us, but they're also doing it because. They're making money off doing that. And so my hope is at some point we can level set the cost of recycling and circularity against the benefits, the economic benefits of doing it, and creating new brands or like creating new revenue streams. And we're seeing a little bit of that. Like, um, the resale market to me is pretty fantastic, where somebody can say, I'm not just gonna take these to Goodwill. Maybe I can make 20 bucks off these and like, sell it online. Uh,

Bryan The Botanist:

Then you're an entrepreneur.

Andy Polk:

right. So I think there's a growing option of where we can keep shoes and circulation longer versus just chunking them in the garbage. Um, but it, it's up to us to make those determinations and say, okay, like, how do I, you know, what do I do with these shoes at the end of life? You, you gotta ask the question.

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah, that's true.

Andy Polk:

think for a long time people just haven't been asking the question.

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah, yeah. No, we're getting out there at a lot of marathon expos. We were at the Chicago Marathon, uh, we were an official partner of the Bank of America Chicago Marathon at their expo. They had a zero waste part of the expo, Andy. It was huge. I mean, we're talking over, I believe 2 million people passed through this expo. One, 1.8 million spectators on race day about in the city of Chicago. I mean, it's their biggest weekend of the year, I believe. And beautiful weather in early October. And the hotels are crazy. I mean, geez, it's like you can't even 55,000 runners. And so I'm at the expo with Sneaker Impact and um, you know, we're right by the Culligan Water station. They had this, um, zero waste village. Um, it had a big tent that said zero waste on it in green, and then it's had the recycling symbol and a couple other symbols. And I thought that was really cool'cause it caught people's attention from afar. And then they had them like write their sustainability pledge on a piece of paper and tack it up on a bulletin board that was like super environmentally, you know, like everything was done with recycled materials. They had a little, the tree there that was made outta cardboard right behind me. It was like a 10 foot tall cardboard tree, which is kind of cool. You know, again, just like inside this giant expo where everything's about buying shoes, buy clothing, buy this, buy your gels, buy this fancy little thing you put on your arm to carry your phone. And here we're talking about zero waste. And then we had the Sneaker Impact clear box made out of polycarbonate. And you could see the shoes people were bringing and dropping in. We filled up many boxes and we talked to'em about what happens to the shoes and how they can order a bag online to get shipped to them, which is our, um, takeback program. We, we, we'll ship our bag to everyone. So we did that and we. I, I thought that it was, it was our second year working with Chicago and every year it's getting bigger and we're gonna potentially be at the New York City. Actually we are at the New York City Marathon. We're at the, um, they have another, uh, sustainability section as well. And that's coming up in three weeks. Um, LA Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and those are our big, you know, we go to a couple others in the military, the Air Force Space Force

Andy Polk:

Yeah,

Bryan The Botanist:

and Flying Pig in Cincinnati. And your parts. Um, yeah. Uh, so we're just going to marathons around the country and educating, and that's actually helping to build the message because people are wearing our shirts and runners are getting it. So runners are like really a big part of our movement. Um, but we're not just runners. We're also gyms and, um, you know, universities and retail.

Andy Polk:

you gotta do it face to face,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah. Yeah. That's it. You can try your hardest and you get a little bit out on social media, but you gotta go. So that's why when I saw you do 30 plus events a year, I, I do a lot of events too, and it's so important to get out there in the community. You know, just keep having the conversations. It can get, you know, a little bit exhausting sometimes. But actually, you know, just as much as people wanna learn or listen to their perspective and learn from them too, and what they're doing, oftentimes they're getting the message and bringing big bags of shoes to the expo. We've had it happen at Flying Pig, people are bringing 20 plus shoes. It was insane cleaning out the garages. So we love that and we get great videos. But, um, I wanted to circle back to how did you get to know us? I mean, we didn't tell people how, you know, you connected with us, so can, can you tell that story?

Andy Polk:

I think, you know, um, I'm trying to remember. It's been years now, but Mo and I just connected on a phone call where we were chatting, you know, and I think part of it was around the sustainability stuff. It's like we were trying to map out who was doing what, right? So part of it was infrastructure around who's grinding things, what is there, but also like who are doing like meaningful purpose-driven missions, right? And so, um, you guys came up, souls for Souls came up, some other folks came up. And so, um, Mo and I got on a call and kind of chatted and just, you know, going back and forth about who we knew and how long he was in the industry. It's like one of those conver, it's like a typical footwear conversation. It's like a who's who kind of thing. And so the great thing about footwear is if you're not. If you're not in the industry, it's um, it's very community driven. Everybody knows everybody for as big as footwear is, it's very small in terms of decision makers and, and people who do things. So, um, so Mo and I just kind of hit it off and, you know, um, we'll connect every now and again about what's happening and we've been connecting more and more around the, the things that Sneaker Impact have been doing around the recycling infrastructure and the machines and the, the technology you guys have. Um, trying to, trying to figure out where that is and where it's heading. And, um, you know, we had Mo come out and speak at our summit this year in Portland at our, um, sustainability and innovation summit around that. And so, um, it was good to get like, just some face-to-face time with it. What was funny though is he was,

Bryan The Botanist:

I heard you saying there too.

Andy Polk:

I did, I did sing. I, you know, so at events I try very hard to keep it upbeat, so, you know. of these topics are really for people trying to struggle with this stuff can be like really heady and like kind of deep and you can get a little melancholy'cause we, you know, you might not be making as much progress as you want. And

Bryan The Botanist:

a footwear

Andy Polk:

so, I gotta keep, yeah, throwing some jokes. I'll sing songs, I'll do whatever it takes to keep the energy up at the event and keep people happy and engaged. Uh, I kind of did that, but Moe came up afterwards and he was like, you know, we, we've had, we've talked for years and I almost thought you were like the super serious person and like, then I hear you sing and that, so I had to laugh. I'm like, yeah. I mean, I can, when I, when I'm really focused and digging in on something, I get very serious and passionate. But at the same time, like I do like realize like you have to have fun and you have to have a smile and engage in a positive way on things. So, um,

Bryan The Botanist:

be silly.

Andy Polk:

but yeah, that was a lot of fun. That's our biggest event

Bryan The Botanist:

that, what was that called? The Innovation Summit or

Andy Polk:

Yeah, it's the, the Shoe Sustainability and Innovation Summit.

Bryan The Botanist:

Sustainability. Yeah.

Andy Polk:

yeah, and it, you know, we added the innovation this year in years past. It's just basically like a pure play shoe sustainability.

Bryan The Botanist:

You have a website called shoe sustainability.com.

Andy Polk:

we shoe sustainability.com, and that's where we have a lot of programs and information that, um, and it's all free resources folks, companies can go in and, and download and, and incorporate into their operations to do things a little bit, um, better. Um, but we've had this thing over several years where sustainability is a strategy, right? How do we build strategies and goals and tactics to get there? And I felt like we're in a very good spot in the industry where. People know a lot more about sustainability. They understand where they play in that space. They've set some strategies, some goals are moving forward. And then the question then became with tariffs that came up because tariffs are a cost sink. I mean, you basically, it's a tax, you have to pay it,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah. And it. takes a while for it to, um, show up, right? Like they

Andy Polk:

It can for consumers. Yeah, it can for consumers, but you know, as a footwear company you have to plan into it. And so then you reduce, you may reduce some of the materials or quality. You may reduce inventory overall and just say, I'm gonna take a 20% dropdown'cause I can't, you know, there's risks, there's business risks and cost risks associated with that. But, but with all that we've,

Bryan The Botanist:

the consumer too.'cause I know like with inflation and everything, they expect some of the impacts

Andy Polk:

Yeah, you could. That's why it's been like slowly folded in because you can't, you can't send 30% on top of. A consumer and expect the, the shoe to sell, it's just not gonna

Bryan The Botanist:

It's a short term

Andy Polk:

yeah, so they've been slowly folding in 5%. I, you know, it depends on what the brand is and how they wanna approach it at retail. But I would say, you know, I was talking to a shoe retailer, a friend of mine, and he was like, you know, we saw$5 increase, then it went to 10, now it's like 15. So it's a slow folding, right? So hopefully, you know, the consumer says, okay, like, I understand like where this is going. And hopefully it, it levels out at some point where there's no extra that keeps getting added. But it's like, you know, for a pair of 160 running shoes, there's 15 more dollars added in there. And if you see that cost go from one 60 to 1 75, it's the tariff. There's not a, there's no other contributing factor. I mean, it, you know, it, it's not a company trying to gouge someone for more money, it's just simply they have to pay that to the US government. And they gotta pass that along if they want to continue to have a successful business where they're making products. So, um, so we hit that this year and so we, we were like, we should add in the innovation side because the innovation side around sustainability is like, how do we act more sustainable with a, with a, um, like an ROI against it, right? Like we, everything in every department has to be cut back here and there. So how do we continue to lean into sustainability and keep pushing, um, as an industry towards a better future, um, with more innovative processes so that we can cut costs without cutting our programs around sustainability? And so, um, this year's discussions were really fascinating because it was very tactical around like. Um, not just like conceptualizing this is the problem I have with a lot of sustainability stuff. It's all conceptual and we're gonna do this and this is our goal. And it's like, yeah, that's great, but how are you gonna do it? And this conference really did get down to nuts and bolts of like making choices and like, you can do this and you can do that, you can do that. And these are all positive steps that may not cost much money at all. Right? And so,

Bryan The Botanist:

Pragmatic stuff.

Andy Polk:

it's very pragmatic and I was really happy with the way it came off'cause we got a lot of good feedback from attendees who were like, you know, I got like five really good things out of this. Whether it's connections to people like Mo Sneaker Impact where they can explore more stuff with you guys. Or it was just tactically like, I can change my material makeup or do something different with my product and, and make it better and more sustainable at the same time. So there's a, you know, there's a lot of movement happening, but cost is a constraint when it comes to. Choosing materials and then with the tariffs and everything. So it's a, it's a, you know, honestly, this year has been a chaotic, weird environment for footwear when it comes to business.

Bryan The Botanist:

it feels that way. Hopefully things settle down

Andy Polk:

hopefully things settled out.

Bryan The Botanist:

yeah. We need it to, um, for the economy and for also just, uh, yeah, just, you know, so we can stay, uh, on the path of, uh, you know, innovation. Uh, it's hard to innovate, like you said, when there's a lot of cost restrictions. Um, so I know you started a bunch of other organizations. Can you, um, highlight a couple of those right now for

Andy Polk:

Yeah, I'm happy to. So there's, um, throughout our work when we engage with different companies, um, there's always these kind of gaps in our industry that no one. Has really tackled. And so, um, we get asked a lot to fill those spaces, uh, and build community in different ways. So one of those is the Black Footwear Forum that we started, um, five or six years ago. Um, and our partners, um, at PLC Detroit, um, Dr. Dwayne Edwards, uh, and our CEO Matt Priest got together. And, um, the first BFF basically was a, um, a gathering of black footwear professionals in Washington DC um, to kind of empower the black footwear community, um, and create better pathways, mentorship kind of career advice. And that's kind of been built over the last fi, uh, five or six years where there's still a national event. I was just there, um, in Detroit, um, a couple of weeks ago. Um, there's about a thousand people that showed up,

Bryan The Botanist:

My friend Joe Robinson's from Detroit, we run 3 1 3.

Andy Polk:

There you go. Um, but they've had, you know, um, they've had, like Shaquille O'Neal spoke last year, the CEO of Jordan spoke this year. Um, and there's just a lot of good engagement and conversations around empowering, um, black professionals in

Bryan The Botanist:

That's great. Yeah, we see that, also at the Running Industry Diversity Coalition.

Andy Polk:

yep. So, so that's like one kind of area that we,

Bryan The Botanist:

one's called Black, um,

Andy Polk:

the Black Footwear Forum. Yep. BFF. Yep. Uh, another one that's happening and, um, it's happening kind of now or soon in Miami. But, um, we also run the, um, FFCF and let's see if I can get all these acronyms right. It's the footwear, um, charitable foundation, um, that focuses on raising money for breast cancer research. So many years ago in our industry, uh, there was a fashion brand, um, whose executive was impacted by breast cancer. And so she started Shoes for a Cure. Um, and it used to be with QQVC where they would do a national kind of event and they would sell shoes from all these brands at discount and they'd take all the money and put it to breast cancer research. It's kind of evolved into, um, post COVID. There's an event in Miami where in the fashion district there's a number of retailer boutiques who will donate a portion of their sales, two shoes for a cure. And then in New York, there's a popup, uh, coming up in October, um, in a couple of weeks where, um, about 300 to 400, um, footwear employees at different brands. Retailers volunteer their time to show up and they run a store of all these brands that donate and all the proceeds go towards breast cancer research. Um, and that's donated directly,

Bryan The Botanist:

Wow. That's really powerful.

Andy Polk:

a hundred percent of that. Um, and so, um, that, that goes, they've raised something like$60 million for breast cancer research through footwear companies. Any

Bryan The Botanist:

month, right? Because we're doing a bunch of the

Andy Polk:

right. Yep.

Bryan The Botanist:

right now. Yeah.

Andy Polk:

Yep. So there's that. And then kinda the last, the last piece of it, um, and something we launched early this year is called the Footwear Innovation Foundation. It is a, uh, 5 0 1 C3 charity research arm. And so it was created, um, we've been talking about it for several years, but the challenge with footwear is that, um, because of all the chaos and problems with supply chains and costs and inflation, um, everybody's doing more with less. So they're expected to do three or four jobs, whereas in the past, maybe one or two, so at the end of the day, they really don't have time to think about what's innovative. They're just trying to put out fires and, and do their daily job. And so the full renovation foundation is trying to look at ways to. Um, feel kind of the innovation gaps our industry has to make it, um, you know, address different, whether it's sustainability or whether it's just business operations or like, is there a new retail experience that we can create for consumers to engage them? Um, so, uh, we, um, that's, that's the primary focus of that. And, um, part part of that is we launched in June a na, um, an international competition called the launchpad Competition.

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah, I saw that launchpad.

Andy Polk:

yep. So part of the problem with the industry is, you know, it, it is still very insular in some ways, so it's hard to break into. So we have a lot of folks, um, outside the industry who may have ideas that have no access points. So the launchpad was that kind of access point where if you had a great idea about footwear, about anything, whether it's, you know, a running shoe or whether it was just a material or whether you had an idea around like a retail experience, whatever that was, you could submit it for free. And we have a team that went through, um, we, we had about a million hits globally in terms of like seeing the campaign that we were running. Um, we had, uh, thousands of hits on our webpage, and I think we had about 180 entrants. Um, and it, and it was like the, the entrances were, there's nothing that was too onerous. We wanted to make it easy to apply, but we also wanted to see who was serious. So they had to like do a presentation deck of four things, which is like, who are you, what are you trying to solve for? What's your idea? Give us some information on like where would fit in the marketplace. Um, so we had all

Bryan The Botanist:

very cool. I love that launchpad idea.

Andy Polk:

And so we had people from India, uk, Italy, yeah. All over the country, have applied for this. And so we, we narrowed it down to 50 and then we narrowed it down to 15, and then ultimately eight. So what's been happening over the last several weeks, uh, are, um, uh, the top eight from this competition to be going through a bootcamp.

Bryan The Botanist:

Hmm.

Andy Polk:

training them on how to understand footwear, understand marketplace, understand how they take their technology and drop it in, kind of build, build them up as entrepreneurs and get them ready to engage with the industry. And then we're gonna do an elevation. It is a, it is a huge mentoring program and what's amazing is even people who. You know, have a, you know, most of these are like startups or even, you know, some people just have an idea on a napkin that we thought, wow, like that could be a huge game changer. No one's thought about that. So people are in different places. Some people are very polished and they still, we still find ways to say, these are your gaps. You gotta work on this to help make that stronger. And, and then there's other people, there's ideas on an act.'cause it's like, gosh, we gotta really like, lean into this and say like, how we help build you up to where there's something that there's some meat on the bones and there's some modeling and prototyping or whatever that is. And so, um, so that's what the bootcamp is, is to really like build those folks up. Um, and then, uh, they'll, there'll be an event and there'll be a top three selected. Um, and the top three will get prize money and prototyping support. But ultimately, all those eight, and I'll even say this, the top 50. We've been able to take those folks and if they're talented and they really want to work in footwear or really believe in their idea, we've been strategically putting them with different mentors in the industry. So this is not a competition. Yeah, it's not a competition where it's like the best idea gets the money, right. It really is like, um, you don't have to have the best idea to get help and support. And this is a way that we're

Bryan The Botanist:

Just have to be curious and

Andy Polk:

you had to be curious and willing and like, um, and, and it may be that your idea never pans out, but there's access to the industry through this program now, and a person, you know, talent and, and drive matter a lot. And so, you know, just capturing those folks. Um, the, the other side of it too is,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah.

Andy Polk:

um, I, I contacted, uh, probably like 200 colleges and universities across the US and it wasn't in traditional design schools. This is like engineering material science.

Bryan The Botanist:

Sure.

Andy Polk:

You know, even like aeronautics, anything and everything,'cause aeronautics and automotive are, are in some ways very similar to footwear in the way that we deal with a, a lot of different components and it's a, you know, complex manufacturing process. Um, so part of it was just putting footwear on the map at these schools to say, you know, footwear as a career is an option for anyone, whether you're an engineer, you know, chemist, it, we need a lot of it and data scientists and footwear nowadays. Um, so some of it's just like making sure that footwear's on the map for some of these colleges and, um, trying to help kind of steer talent into footwear, um, in a new strategic way that we haven't really done before. So I'm, look, I, I'm shocked how much work it has been. I'm also equally shocked how amazing the ideas have been and like it really has re-energized me, um, in a tough year where. Some, sometimes when you talk about tariffs so much, it gets like, really, you just feel down about things. This has been the one positive, so we've had really great conversations with footwear

Bryan The Botanist:

That's so cool. Creativity. And Mo always says too, we're always going to universities, having, um, university of Miami's been in our facility the last couple months, multiple times. They had their journalism team here a couple weeks ago shooting. I mean, the kids, the geography team came here. Sustainability, um, departments from different universities. And Mo always says, and I believe this, I'm a high school coach for cross country, that you. We need to support and, um, encourage, you know, students so much. Um, so we're always traveling to universities

Andy Polk:

I, I just, I always, I think that finance and tech and these industries do really well to attract talent and footwear.

Bryan The Botanist:

That's true. A lot of

Andy Polk:

It's harder. Harder for

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah. Because of the money.

Andy Polk:

Right. So there's obvious like ways in, but like, you know, once you're in footwear, if we can get you in footwear, you'll stay in footwear, I

Bryan The Botanist:

true. I go to TRE every year. Uh,

Andy Polk:

a hotel, California. Yeah, you can, you can, you can check out, but you can never leave and it'll, it'll stick with you, um,

Bryan The Botanist:

It's a passion.

Andy Polk:

So,

Bryan The Botanist:

Um, what got you into footwear?

Andy Polk:

uh, it, my,

Bryan The Botanist:

Did you start somewhere else? I mean,'cause I know you have a degree in, uh, international relations and

Andy Polk:

yeah, that's

Bryan The Botanist:

foreign policy. You are a foreign policy head.

Andy Polk:

yeah. I did foreign policy. I did, I I was one of the. Foremost experts on counter-terrorism when I worked in Congress. Yeah. So I have a completely different background than most people do. Um, but I, our CEO and I worked together on Capitol Hill and he, um, he went to, uh, he became like the textile czar for the US government. And then when his job ended, he, um, he was hired by FDRA. And so, um, I left the hill and got my master's degree and I came back and I was just having conversations with folks about what my next step was. I really didn't have anything truly nailed down. Um, I knew I didn't wanna work for the government because at the time there was a shutdown, uh, just like there is right now. Um, and so I was like, I, I really like to get a paycheck and not have to worry about that. Um, unfortunately for a lot of people who are dealing with that now. Um, uh, but I had a conversation with him and he was just like, there's nothing more international than footwear. If you really wanna learn about like, you know, trade and, you know, working something that's really interesting and multifaceted, like it would kinda, so as a curious person, I just jumped in, I was just like, I don't know anything about footwear. The first week I was on the job, we flew to China, so I was in footwear factories right off the bat. And I would say that's the biggest thing for a lot of folks is, um, coming into footwear, like you honestly have to understand the manufacturing process to understand the product. So as, as important as design is and aesthetics are to a consumer, to connect with them equally, when you put your foot into it,

Bryan The Botanist:

Hmm.

Andy Polk:

it's like where the rubber meets the road, it's gotta be comfortable. There's gotta be return, there's gotta be, you know, there it is. Gotta be engineered properly. And the only way to really understand it that holistically is to be in factories or, you know, know the engineering side of the material. I'm not saying you have to be an expert in it, but. You just have to be aware of the complexity of things, and I think that makes people who can understand design and materials and product and consumers,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah.

Andy Polk:

those people are like superstars. I mean, those people will always have

Bryan The Botanist:

experts of the Yeah. that's, uh, I mean shoes don't grow on trees.

Andy Polk:

that's right. Exactly. Well rubber does, I

Bryan The Botanist:

Rubber. Yeah. You know, rubber, the original rubber barons, it went down to the Amazon and then they had the issues with the, you know, the, uh, whatever the, um, the fungus or the, the diseases and they have move them now over to Asia or wherever they're getting it from. But there is also the synthetics in the petroleum industry. There's just so many components and, you know, the cost of oil versus other. Well, this has just been a complete education today on the footwear industry. Do you mind if we, uh, talk a little bit about your, um, other passions, Andy? Or is there anything else you wanna cover?

Andy Polk:

I'm happy to,

Bryan The Botanist:

I know you wanted to, you're very, uh, we, we wanna get you back to work too. Uh,'cause you're helping with this, uh, industry so much. Um, and I can't wait to come to one of your conferences or one of your events. And when you down in Miami, please reach out.'cause I'd love to connect with you in

Andy Polk:

I'd be awesome. I'd love to as well.

Bryan The Botanist:

Um, so I heard you're a big soccer fan.

Andy Polk:

I am a big soccer

Bryan The Botanist:

fan. Yeah. Tell us a little about that.'cause I grew up playing soccer for a good

Andy Polk:

Oh, did you? Yeah. I would say, um, seminal moment, I think for a lot of folks my age, and I think we're similar age as the 94 World Cup in the us. Uh, and we got a, we've got one coming up next year, which is gonna be amazing. I'm

Bryan The Botanist:

that, where's that one gonna be?

Andy Polk:

Uh, it's all over the us,

Bryan The Botanist:

in the US, again. That's right. Okay.

Andy Polk:

Yeah, yeah. So,

Bryan The Botanist:

was the last time I was here. That was when I was in

Andy Polk:

last time I was here. Yep. Um, and so, um. I think that kind of put, it kind of in many ways kind of made me look at the world differently, kind of open up the world. I, I grew up in a small town in, in the south,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah. Where did you grow

Andy Polk:

outside, just outside Charlotte, North Carolina.

Bryan The Botanist:

We love Charlotte. Shout out to Charlotte running company.

Andy Polk:

Yeah.

Bryan The Botanist:

Chandler.

Andy Polk:

Okay. Um, so I grew, I grew up just outside Charlotte, small town. Um, but like, it just opened up like a whole world of seeing different cultures, you know, through kind of sport in that way that I hadn't seen before. I mean, most of the, most of it was, you know, N-F-L-N-B-A,'cause Michael Jordan was huge

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah, I know. I was the biggest Michael Jordan fan myself

Andy Polk:

But, but all the athletes, all the athletes in the eighties and nineties were typically the US athletes in US sports. So like seeing that was different. And then when I went to college, um, I just connected, um, a lot more to kinda international students who were at my school and we started watching Champions League. And I was like, what is this? I had, you know, I wasn't educated, I just didn't know. And so I started having a real passion for watching it and understanding it and understanding the tactics and the players and all that. And I just became a diehard kind of fan in that way. And I would say, you know, if I'm watching sports, 90% of soccer, I mean, I'll even watch high school soccer on tele. I like anything. Like I'm really into it. I've traveled, um, I've traveled all over Europe to watch it. Um, I've been to the Sincero, I've been to Bene Bay. I've been, um, I've been to a lot of stadiums in the uk. When I was there for a year, I traveled all over. Um, so I, you know, I've seen Champions League mattress last year I was at the Euros in, in Germany, so my wife was to let

Bryan The Botanist:

That must have been really cool.

Andy Polk:

It was

Bryan The Botanist:

I've been to Germany for October Fest. In the Berlin Marathon, but I would love to see a soccer game, uh,

Andy Polk:

was unbelievable. And it was like a, like

Bryan The Botanist:

as they call it. Right.

Andy Polk:

Yes. Yeah. Football. Exactly. Um,

Bryan The Botanist:

to Barques Stadium.

Andy Polk:

it was like very communal. Like people were coming from all over Europe into Germany, and it was just like a big party during the

Bryan The Botanist:

yeah.

Andy Polk:

and then at night was, you know, the matches. And so it, like, it was super awesome because everybody was just so happy, you know, it was like a football festival, which,

Bryan The Botanist:

welcome everyone. It doesn't matter where

Andy Polk:

yeah, it was great.

Bryan The Botanist:

You weren't an

Andy Polk:

mean, they had like, um, I was in some cities where they had fans coming in who didn't have tickets to the match, and they just wanted to experience watching it in the fan zone or being in the city with all the other fans. Um, so it was awesome. Um, so yeah, so I'm,

Bryan The Botanist:

Who's your favorite team?

Andy Polk:

um, my club is Tottenham Hot Spur, um, in London. Yeah, so when I was in London I had, I had attended a match previously and really enjoyed the atmosphere and the fans. Um, and then when I moved to London, I kind of, um. Kind of took them on as my club and went to a lot of matches. And yeah. So last year, last year they finally raised a trophy for the first time. I, you know, I, I kind of picked these teams, I guess, that, um, aren't traditionally, like if you look at other clubs,

Bryan The Botanist:

United or Chelsea.

Andy Polk:

right, who have a lot of money to spend and can, you know, and taught them are just kind of like,

Bryan The Botanist:

The underdog.

Andy Polk:

know, they gr but, but I appreciate it. I appreciate the grind of business and so I kind of like the club for that reason. Um,

Bryan The Botanist:

ties into the footwear industry too,'cause they wear shoes as well.

Andy Polk:

Exactly. So, yeah. So, um, but yeah, so Tottenham Huper is my club. Um, but I, again, I watch if I can get away with it, I'd watch soccer like every night if I could. Right. Like,

Bryan The Botanist:

That's your thing to do, to like disconnect and from

Andy Polk:

Yeah. It's kind of my passion, you know, of, of seeing that and following things and just appreciating and, and I think too, like culturally, it's fascinating'cause. When you watch teams, and especially next year at the World Cup, when they come play, they all have different formations. They have different tactics and ways of playing, and I think it is in some ways reflective of their cultures

Bryan The Botanist:

Sure. The Dutch versus the African squads versus the South American squads. Yeah. I mean, I went to Bogota a couple of years ago, two years ago for dental work, and I got to play in a pickup game in the stadium. Not a full stadium, but it was a nice field, very nice lighted at night with armed security, and it was just a scrimmage, but I got to experience a little Bogota, uh, Columbia's culture, you know? Where I've gone back a couple times and in Guatemala too, I've seen, I go there a bunch. Um, so I just love the different, you know, countries and their style. US has a different style too. Um, of course it's more,

Andy Polk:

But I would say, you know, it really does connect you because when you, you know, when I, when I was working in Congress, that would actually be my connecting point when I was talking to different diplomats from other countries, was. Soccer, we would talk about soccer as a conduit to talk about more serious issues about

Bryan The Botanist:

Oh, I love that icebreaker. And just

Andy Polk:

yeah, and I would, I even, I had people, um, coming over and bringing me, um, soccer jerseys from their countries, right? Like, I kind of got known as the guy who was like the American fanatic for football in some ways. So, which I'm fine with. I appreciate it. I got some nice kits in my house. So, yeah,

Bryan The Botanist:

Um, so I have just a couple quick questions. They're kind of all like little pot per questions. Um. What challenges do you think made you who you are today or what was like one of the biggest challenges you think in your life? Was there a big moment where you had to go a certain direction? Was it getting, you know, starting a family? Was it a different in college where you

Andy Polk:

starting a family is always having

Bryan The Botanist:

we haven't had a chance. You got kids. you, your dad,

Andy Polk:

kids. It's always a challenge. I, you know, having kids is interesting because it, it challenges my belief that I'm a good communicator.

Bryan The Botanist:

Mm-hmm.

Andy Polk:

Having to boil down things to a a 9-year-old, a 7-year-old, and a a 2-year-old is, is fundamentally different. So it

Bryan The Botanist:

Well you have three kids.

Andy Polk:

I have three

Bryan The Botanist:

Wow. Boys and

Andy Polk:

it's all

Bryan The Botanist:

All girls, Wow. So Mo has three girls as well, and then one boy. So you and Mo have a lot of girls.

Andy Polk:

So, uh, so that's that.

Bryan The Botanist:

all boys, so

Andy Polk:

Okay.

Bryan The Botanist:

works one way or the other. Usually.

Andy Polk:

yeah, so that's always is, you know, I think being a parent is the, the best and largest challenge that I have to try to lean into. But I would say when I was coming outta college, I wanted to be in banking, honestly. Um, and it just didn't work out. And I got into politics and I couldn't be happier. But it, a lot of it was. Being brave enough to move up to Washington, DC When I was from Chip, I grew up in a small town. I went to an, even my, my university or my college was even in a smaller town than I grew up in. So moving to DC was a big challenge for me, just personally being able to be like, can I do this work?

Bryan The Botanist:

It's like a shark tank.

Andy Polk:

Yeah. Um, and, and I committed myself to like really, um, just grind, just show up early, stay late, learn as much as I could, be curious, be positive. Um, and that kind of led to a lot of success. Whereas, you know, people who went to like a Harvard or a Yale or whatever, that I would engage with on the Hill at the same time, just weren't willing to put the same work in so super smart people, but like, if you wanna separate yourself in anything in life, you've, you've gotta work at it. And so, uh, I just was willing to put more work in than the people to get where I'm.

Bryan The Botanist:

Wow. Yeah. So work ethic is so key. Um, what is your favorite motto or quote to inspire people and live by?

Andy Polk:

Um, I like quotes a lot. Um, I love when I get to an event and hear somebody quote something and then I can like stick it in my brain and think about it. Um, and I, you know, in many ways I like all the trends and dentalist stuff from Emerson and Thoreau and I like, um, the Daily Stoic. I like reading about that and, and it's all like, for me it's very, anything that's practical, it's like, how can you live your life more simply?

Bryan The Botanist:

Sure.

Andy Polk:

Stop thinking so much about all this other stuff, or missing out or whatever. It's like, what can you control? Can you live more simply? And then all that, you have some kind of happiness to it. So I wouldn't say there's like one quote, but my philosophy is basically like, it drills down to just simplicity

Bryan The Botanist:

I love that. Yeah. Simplicity is so key in life,

Andy Polk:

more, yeah, the le like, and, and we have a joke here on staff because our CEO Matt Priest, like he loves buying footwear and I don't buy that much shoes. Like, it's kind of an ironic thing, but like, I just think so much in terms of just being simplistic in my choices decisions. Like, um,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah.

Andy Polk:

you know, focusing where I try to focus my time where I think it's very, the most valuable. So my kids, my family, and then these kind of passion projects in the footwear space where I really try lean into,

Bryan The Botanist:

That's awesome. Um, so would you like to do, uh, short singing or song for us to close it out? And then, I mean, if you'd like

Andy Polk:

I don't think so, man, I'm gonna take a pass. You gotta, lemme tell you.

Bryan The Botanist:

karaoke jams? Like, I dunno, I won't make you do Madonna, but, uh

Andy Polk:

You have to be at the events to get it. You gotta be in person.

Bryan The Botanist:

All right then. That's an

Andy Polk:

So I can't give it all away, but you gotta be

Bryan The Botanist:

Maybe we can find you on YouTube and I can throw something in.

Andy Polk:

Well, if you listen to our podcast every now and again, there'll

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah, Okay. Let's talk about the podcast real quick before I let you go. So you've, you, you're at 500 episodes'cause I'm at about 47, so.

Andy Polk:

I'm just,

Bryan The Botanist:

I mean, we talked a little off air about this, but tell people what it's like in the podcasting world.

Andy Polk:

yeah, it's, um, 500 I, I'm shocked that we hit 500. Honestly. Um, when we started it, we had this, um, this conversation of what success in a podcast would look like, right? Like then, then you start throwing out, like create, you're like, wow, if we got a thousand people, listen, if you got 10,000 people, like, and then we kind of boil it back down. It's like, what if there were just 10 people that listened that were really important, people that could make decisions for our industry or, you know, for consumers that would change things like that in, in and of itself. So it became like more of a purpose-driven mission. Than just the metrics of say, you know, 500 episodes great. But like, I'm more proud of the fact that every episode, there's two or three tidbits that is shared that people can apply their live or their business. And so I think, um, when we started out, like we didn't really know how to have conversations and talk about topics and things like that. And I think we've kind of eventually found our way in that and we've kind of become integral and we've got a lot of great, um, to, to my, you know, numbers have been great and they keep growing and increasing, but, um, we have CEOs and major companies. Um, like we, not too long ago we interviewed the CEO of Brooks running and he was like, I'm a loyal listener. And it's

Bryan The Botanist:

Wow.

Andy Polk:

that blows me away. Right? Like, um, but he is like, I love the episodes'cause, you know, I learned something. It's, you know, fun. It's, you know, so, um,

Bryan The Botanist:

so rewarding when you hear that from people, even if it's just some, it doesn't matter who it is, either if it's a CEO or when people, yeah, we're small, but it's

Andy Polk:

lot of people. Yeah. We were talking, um, I think it was Ronnie Wright, who was a legendary Nike designer. We did an interview with him and then his podcast dropped and at the same time, like a week later, he was at Virginia Tech doing some, um, some work with students. And the students were coming up saying, I listened to you on the podcast. So like, even at the student level, entrepreneur startup, those folks are listening in as well. And so I think that's, for me is the most interesting thing. Um, from, from a behind the scenes perspective, I try really hard not to script too much out.

Bryan The Botanist:

Okay.

Andy Polk:

Um, and it makes it harder in some ways'cause you gotta be really on point in these conversations to, to pull things outta people or find the nuggets in the gyms. But I just feel like it, it, you know, authenticity matters so much more than the soundbite. Um, and so, um. And understanding how people think and reason, um, how they work through problems. But we, we focus a lot on our show around like culture, leadership, like ethos, things like that, that drive companies, not just like, well, you know, why'd you choose purple over orange? Right? So it was like kind of, um, kind of an evergreen approach in some ways of how, um, how we approach it. And what, the interesting thing after 500 episodes is that you can, and, you know, we talk about running shoes, but like every company makes running shoes differently and in different places and in different ways for different reasons, for different cons. And so, you know, you could line up a hundred companies and they would have a hundred different ways of operating. And I think that's just so fascinating and they can all learn from each other in certain ways. But there's a core belief, value system or ethos that each company has that drives them. They all engage with their consumers differently, but like they're, you know, the, the successful people are hyper focused on the individual. And so, um, so yeah, so I think 500, you know.

Bryan The Botanist:

so interesting how they're focused on the individual, yet it applies to a wide segment.'cause there's a lot of shared traits, but also everyone is individually very

Andy Polk:

Well, that's the hard part now is going forward is in this fractured media world where podcasting now is kind of, I mean, I would say like, you know, if we think about

Bryan The Botanist:

is ubiquitous. It's everywhere.

Andy Polk:

yeah. So cable news used to be where everybody

Bryan The Botanist:

Oh, that's right. Yeah. The media was only

Andy Polk:

the fifties, right? It's like Time Magazine, Newsweek, whatever the publications were. Everybody's reading the same heady news, high, high minded news about, you know, society or whatever it was, the economy, whatever. And then it started fracturing. And then we had like cable news. And cable news now is kind of fractured into. These kind of live podcasts, whether it's Joe Rogan or any of these guys,

Bryan The Botanist:

No, but even like, not even, but not even considering Joe Rogan. There's people that are much lower on the totem pole than him in the sense of the numbers. And they're still crushing the TV numbers. Like they're crushing CNN or Fox. I don't wanna say any names'cause I don't wanna get in trouble, but some of these shows even online or the late night shows are seeing that, like the podcasting world is where a lot of people are going for, you know, the conversation. Um, it's not necessarily, you have to always, it's, you know, it, it's like we get, there's experts and then there's people just casual, you know? So there's a whole range of everything. The whole gamuts on podcasting.

Andy Polk:

finding these little niches, right? And that's, that's the, the growing challenge I think that a lot of shoe companies have

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah.

Andy Polk:

is, They try to create this model of what the ideal consumer is and then sell into a mass category. Whereas now they're having to say, okay, we've got eight ideal consumers, and then how do we segment our offerings into more microcar targeted categories? So instead of just one shoe for our target audience and hopefully connects with other people, like, we actually have to be more focused and segmented than ever, um, and more thoughtful than ever about the fact that we have eight different ideal customers instead of one. And that makes business really difficult. But if you can do it that way and you're successful at it, your, your business will grow. I mean, so I, you know, and I think that's some of the problems we've seen with big companies in the industry have kind of went away from that and now are coming back to it. Um, and you know, and, and it, it's, it's an interesting industry for sure and being able to have, um. A podcast means that we get 30 or 45 minutes, depending on how long we go with a, an executive, just to talk to them and kind of break bread digitally and have conversations. And I think it's pretty cool. It's a, i, I like where we're at with it in terms of being able to spend time with someone and add value and just have con like really good conversation where I walk away learning, I don't know, maybe more than not my audience does in some ways socially. So if I do it right

Bryan The Botanist:

That's awesome. Well, you got a new fan here. Uh, the shoe in show.

Andy Polk:

Yep. Shoe and show.

Bryan The Botanist:

Shoe in show. So that's everywhere. I'm sure on YouTube. Spotify,

Andy Polk:

yeah, everywhere you

Bryan The Botanist:

me off camera you how the evolution of the production has come and I can identify with that.'cause it's, you know, you never, you can't just go into it thinking, I'm gonna just. You know, figure it all out within one week. It takes years.

Andy Polk:

Yeah. We've had a lot of different segments.

Bryan The Botanist:

in year two. Yeah. I'm in, it's, you're in year 15, you're telling me

Andy Polk:

I think it's, yeah, 10, 10 years, 50. Yeah. Somewhere in there. Around 10, maybe nine or 10.

Bryan The Botanist:

That's incredible. But that's consistency.

Andy Polk:

it is hard'cause we do try, like we were fooling around with doing one a month and our

Bryan The Botanist:

marathon ultramarathon.

Andy Polk:

Yeah. The kind of the experts that work with us are like, you gotta do it every week. You, if you wanna build an audience, you gotta do it every week. Right. And like, it doesn't mean that everybody's gonna listen every week, but it's the consistency of putting out something that's

Bryan The Botanist:

That's what I gotta work on, is I do pretty much everything for the podcast. I don't wanna say that lightly, but I do. And I need some help with editing.'cause sometimes when I'm doing the conversation and, you know, just for a little bit of the inside baseball talk, uh, you know, between you and I as a, I could use some help in the editing because I get a little burned out from, you know, I don't always wanna listen to myself again and choose

Andy Polk:

No, trust me, I don't, I don't really, really listen to the episodes once

Bryan The Botanist:

I, I listen to them. I listen to'em while I'm driving sometimes just to make sure the quality. I mean, I always listen to'em before, you know, and chunks of'em, you know, but, and I try to, we now, we try to do zero editing in terms of removing any type of filler words. Um, we just edit for overlays, which we're gonna

Andy Polk:

I think that's a good thing because I like,

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah, mo that was Mo's mandate. And actually I identified even the two. He said, Joe Rogan doesn't edit. I was like, you're right.

Andy Polk:

yeah, the authenticity matters a lot and, and we fooled around with doing some edits and things like that, but I would rather just have a taped conversation and like, obviously, unless somebody really screws up

Bryan The Botanist:

Yeah,

Andy Polk:

like around like the dates or the data or something like,

Bryan The Botanist:

Or said something they couldn't say under an

Andy Polk:

yeah. So yeah, we, we, you know, out of 500 episodes we probably edited like 20, um, where we're just like, yeah, we get it. Like, but otherwise, like somebody might come and be like, I didn't quite say it the way I wanted to. Who cares, right? Like it's a conversation, like you're not gonna even say it right over lunch with your best friend, right? Just, just human nature. So just roll with it. Um, yeah, it kind of works out that way. But I, I appreciate the fact that, um, you know, I appreciate what you guys are doing and the fact that you guys are driving content too, right? Like we need more conversations about footwear and then end of life for sure. Uh, anything to educate, um, and activate people, I think is really important. So I appreciate you guys having me on and letting me

Bryan The Botanist:

it's so fun to meet so many people, whether it's through MO or through other people in the company, or just in my life. I was just in Chicago and at the Expo I met several people. I'm an interview coming up from all over the world, so, you know, it's just really interesting. And you're, you've been our top footwear expert for sure. So I hope people find a lot of value in this

Andy Polk:

at it more. The more you do it, the more experts above me you'll get for sure.

Bryan The Botanist:

maybe I, I, I'm really curious about the F-D-R-F-D-R-A. Tell us again, one more time what it stands for.

Andy Polk:

Uh, footwear distributors and retailers of America. So it is a Association of footwear brands. Footwear retailers. We have factories as members, we have material suppliers, so anyone in the footwear ecosystem, um, can join fq a as a member. And we take membership dues, uh, and apply it towards fighting tariffs or building programs. So, you know, in terms of circularity, all the money is circular. It goes back into something to help the footwear industry grow and, and strengthen itself, uh, to produce better products or ship it more effectively or, you know, be more sustainable. Um, any of those things kind of, you know, striving towards a better industry.

Bryan The Botanist:

Very cool. So I'm gonna share a bunch of links for people to learn more about the footwear distribution retailers of America and the Footwear Innovation Foundation and shoe sustainability.com and your launchpad so people can continue to submit, um, ideas and, um, your podcast. Of course. So we're just, uh, thank you so much Andy, for coming on today, new friend. I, I love your energy, I love your, um, outlook and, um, everything about your, uh, message today, um, was very, very on point with what Sneaker Impact aligns with. So thank you

Andy Polk:

Yeah,

Bryan The Botanist:

we'd love to have you on in the future, and hopefully we'll see you in Miami

Andy Polk:

I'd love to. Yeah. Happy to come back anytime. Let me

Bryan The Botanist:

Awesome. Any last thoughts for our community?

Andy Polk:

No, I just think be thoughtful about what you're purchasing. Be thoughtful about what you do with your shoes. Uh, be thoughtful that there are people. You may imagine that your footwear is uncomfortable and not to your standard. There are a lot of people in poverty around the world who would beg to differ. Um, and so work with Sneaker Impact and other folks, anyone, you know, any way we can keep sneakers out of a landfill, uh, is what we should be focused on. So, extending life, uh, eventually we'll get to the grinding and developing infrastructure around that. But, um, you know, for our industry it's just step by step progress is being made, but future progress requires on us as consumers to be thoughtful.

Bryan The Botanist:

that's great. I love that. Thoughtfulness, mindfulness, and innovation. Um, thank you so much for being on today, Andy.

Andy Polk:

Thank you.

Bryan The Botanist:

All right. Have a great day everyone.

Contributor

Bryan “The Botanist” Huberty

Host