We all need time in nature to restore and renew. To find insight and creativity, to set big life goals and just to get away and restore our bodies to their factory settings.
Escape the relentless march of the clock and find solace in the wilderness with Chris Grant and Charlie Crisp from Unyoked.
This episode is the essence of a business literally born in the wild and the profound peace it promises to those entangled in the modern world. My own respite within an Unyoked cabin was so incredibly restorative and in this episode I learn all about the origin and ethos of Unyoked.
The founders' footsteps echo with lessons on the healing touch of nature and the challenging ascent of scaling a startup, offering insights into creating a venture that is as nurturing to the human spirit as it is successful in the marketplace.
Chris and Charlie speak of cabins under the stars and the symbiosis of sustainability and comfort that defines the Unyoked experience. Leaving with a heart full of starlight and a mind clear like the forest air, I extend an invitation to all of you to step into the Unyoked universe— an essential reset for the soul.
Find out all about Unyoked here.
And connect with Chris and Charlie.
We all need time in nature to restore and renew. To find insight and creativity, to set big life goals and just to get away and restore our bodies to their factory settings.
Escape the relentless march of the clock and find solace in the wilderness with Chris Grant and Charlie Crisp from Unyoked.
This episode is the essence of a business literally born in the wild and the profound peace it promises to those entangled in the modern world. My own respite within an Unyoked cabin was so incredibly restorative and in this episode I learn all about the origin and ethos of Unyoked.
The founders' footsteps echo with lessons on the healing touch of nature and the challenging ascent of scaling a startup, offering insights into creating a venture that is as nurturing to the human spirit as it is successful in the marketplace.
Chris and Charlie speak of cabins under the stars and the symbiosis of sustainability and comfort that defines the Unyoked experience. Leaving with a heart full of starlight and a mind clear like the forest air, I extend an invitation to all of you to step into the Unyoked universe— an essential reset for the soul.
Find out all about Unyoked here.
And connect with Chris and Charlie.
If you can kind of really focus on curating an experience or a level of hospitality or, regardless of your industry, if you can make people walking away feeling really good about themselves, you're going to be successful in whatever business you're in.
Speaker 2:I've actually got two people on this podcast with me Chris Grant, the CEO and co-founder of Unyote, and Charlie Crisp, general manager for Unyoked. Not everyone wants to, or has the ability to, be able to walk five days to get that level of nature or, you know, want to sleep in a hut next to an old mate snoring next to you in a cot or even eat you know freeze-dried beef bourguignon for four days straight too.
Speaker 1:That kind of was the spark, I guess, and it kind of reminded me of that sort of passion I had from a child, even from primary school. But I thought what this is. It actually addresses a defined problem, and I think that there's a lot of people in New Zealand and a lot of people around the world that are burning out without even realising it, and I think this was the answer for me.
Speaker 2:Getting that insight. Whether it's a think week, whether it's a full week, whether it's a day or two, just getting off the grid and becoming one again with nature, you just make better decisions. You get a better insight. Hey everybody, it's Greg Sheehan. Welcome to my podcast, where you will hear from a range of guests, including those from the startup world and those that have had incredibly interesting lives and some stories to tell. I would really appreciate it if you could hit the follow button and share this amongst your friends, but, as you know, time is limited, so let's get on with it and hear from our next guest, my guest today.
Speaker 2:I've actually got two people on this podcast with me Chris Grant, the CEO and co-founder of Unyoked, and Charlie Crisp, general manager for Unyoked. I actually met Charlie in Tauranga, new Zealand, a month or two back and it was kind of coincidental. We bumped into each other in a cafe and we were aware of one another and then we had a proper coffee and Charlie was just telling me a little bit about what he does for a living and he was telling me all about Unyoked, and we'll talk about that as we get into this episode. I was actually I've got to say I was actually a kind of huge convert, just a natural convert. When you understand what Unyoked is all about, I just couldn't. In fact, I couldn't get enough of it. I kept saying to Charlie, I don't need convincing, I just absolutely love this concept for people who are busy, people who need time out for whatever reason, particularly those in the startup community who are kind of in that hustle and grind.
Speaker 2:So a couple of days ago I went and experienced this for myself and I went to a cabin in Kawakawa Bay, just southeast of Auckland in New Zealand, and experienced it for myself and honestly, it was outstanding. So two nights in this cabin, everything that you could possibly want there, like beautiful bed, beautiful linen, all of the kind of nice coffees and wines, cooking on an open fire, opening windows at night and seeing a sky that was full of stars the only sound you could hear were the birds and a creek that was running adjacent to the property. Guys, I want to say thank you for that, because it was an incredible experience. Charlie, I met you, as I say, a month or so ago. How did you get involved in Unyoked? And then we'll throw across to Chris and talk about the founding of Unyoked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks very much for having both of us. Greg Really appreciate being on the show. My story begins. I grew up in a small sheep and beef farm in Te Puna on the outskirts of Tauranga, and I was actually very fortunate to have an outdoors environment that I could play and thrive in with friends and family and a lot of camping and hiking and things, and also went to a rural primary school up. In that the teachers were really inspirational and inspired and encouraged us to spend time in nature. And then, you know, I sort of followed that sort of standard path of high school and actually went to high school in Sydney where I met Chris and Cam over there through, you know, various social occasions and also I think we met each other a few times on the basketball court, chris, and had some good battles.
Speaker 1:And then I actually ended up back in New Zealand and went to Targo University and did a couple of degrees there and got involved in a couple of small medical startups after that and went back to Australia and kind of kept up the relationship with the boys over there and then, like many of us, was really chasing that kind of ambition in the corporate world and that sort of drive to succeed, and I didn't realize it at the time. But I guess I was getting pretty burnt out and you know, I was becoming a sort of a product of that kind of corporate environment and it was starting to have kind of a different impact on my life. I was sort of prioritizing the wrong things and worried about things that weren't in my control, and so I got to that kind of point of, wow, this isn't really sustainable, it's not really conducive to me being healthy or happy. So you know, in order to get away from that environment, you just have to sort of hit the road sometimes or do have a pivot and go somewhere else. So I actually then took off overseas and sold my car and ended up buying a caravan in the States and then traveled down through the States and Central America, basically surfing and drinking a bit of rum and just being a bit of a lad. And then, you know, after a few months of that, I actually kind of craved and missed the kind of structure and routine. So I moved back to New Zealand and got back into that corporate realm and it wasn't long before those habits started picking back up again and I was just grinding really hard and adulting, I think, in a way, and saving money to buy a house. And you know I did that for two or three years and managed to scrape together some cash and bought a house. And then the pandemic hit. And I think three days after I signed the papers for my house I got an email from the directors of the company I was working with saying, hey, sorry, but you've been redundant. So it was kind of like, oh, sit back. I was fortunate enough to get another job.
Speaker 1:But in that sort of grace period, you know, a group of friends and I got together and decided we'd do a bit of an outdoor experience and a hike. And we actually decided to go to the Heafy Track down off the west coast of New Zealand and you know, if anyone's done that, it's a pretty special part of the world. The landscape's spectacular and it was just incredibly impactful for me. And I got about two days in and I kind of had that realisation, you know, amongst one of them, standing on the decks of the hut, looking out over the kind of alpine tussock, and you'd have that tingle on the back of your neck, feeling that kind of inhalation of really fresh air, and that perspective change when you're looking into that really broad landscape and I was kind of thinking, man, like this is needed. We need this more in our life, and I think this is the counterweight to that stress and the counterweight to that pressure that many of us are in without even realizing it.
Speaker 1:But I guess I thought to myself, like how could we make this more accessible to people and have a better level of amenity, but make it easier for people to access and weave into their routines? You know, not everyone wants to or has the ability to be able to walk five days to get that level of nature. Or, you know, want to sleep in a hut next to an old maid snoring next to you in a cot, or even eat you know, freeze dried beef, bourbon johns, for four days straight too. That kind of was the spark, I guess, and it kind of reminded me of that sort of passion I had from a child, even from primary school. But I thought what this is is it actually addresses a defined problem, and I think that there's a lot of people in new zealand and a lot of people around the world that are burning out without even realizing it, and I think this was the answer for me.
Speaker 1:So I got back home and I kind of looked into a few of the stats around burnout and and things like that.
Speaker 1:It was amazing how connected people are and how much time they spend on the screen. I think the average kiwi spends close to you know they unlock their phone eight times every hour, which is, you know that's roughly eight minutes a day, and you know we're spending six hours on average depending lifetime at 17 years looking at a screen. So I got I got back in touch with with chris and cam and I was. I'd heard that they were doing something along the lines of creating a business that was kind of an outdoors on-demand service with these beautiful little cabins, these curated cabins, and I did a bit of research and found out that what they were doing was actually exactly what I wanted to do and had a passion in doing so. I called up Chris and Cam. I was like, hey, boys, I think you've got a great solution here. How can we bring this to New Zealand and how can I help facilitate more Kiwis to get into nature more often and easier? So that's kind of how I got started.
Speaker 2:So what year is this? What year are we talking about here, because I know Anyoke was started, sort of 2016.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this would have been. It was probably about 2020, I think that I kind of got involved with the boys Is that right, chris? So 2019? I kind of got involved with the boys. So right, chris, so 2019, I think. And then it was about 2020 that we kind of started to flesh it out a bit more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll tell you, it's the first time in 2019, yeah, yeah, that's a great segue across to you, Chris.
Speaker 2:Chris, you and Cam obviously co-founded this. Before we sort of talk about how you got started with, Unyoked a little bit of a background from you and your early origin story. Were you one of those kids who grew up always wanting to be an entrepreneur? I saw that you studied marketing and finance and that sort of thing, but were you an entrepreneur from the get-go?
Speaker 3:It's a good question I'd always liked doing things outside the box.
Speaker 3:I always had a hunger to learn, a real sharp curiosity curiosity. It became pretty clear early on that, yes, you know, my brother and I wanted to to break out of the corporate world and build something for ourself. I don't know when that you know when you could could say that I transitioned to an entrepreneur. You know, from 12 years old I was doing paper runs and working, and our dad is fairly entrepreneurial, or at least adventurous in his choices. So yeah, I think you could say I had a spark from early on.
Speaker 2:And then so what was the origin story for you and Cam? Getting started with Unyoked, did you have a similar kind of moment to the one that Charlie had around the need for something like this? What was the origin of that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's why Unyog's been able to be so successful. I think because my origin story is very similar to Charlie's and I think that a lot of other people have that same point that they're reaching. So yeah, you know, I studied marketing finance, as you mentioned. I moved into the corporate world. I worked for Woolworths, one of Australia's biggest companies in the marketing department. That's sort of where I realised not for me. Then I moved to a fast-growth startup out of the US based in Sydney, and then that took me to Asia and there I sort of built up the skill set and the experience that I've lent with Unyote the sort of catalyst was a similar piece to Charlie.
Speaker 3:It was not living the life that I'd grown up living. You know, we moved around Australia. I was born in the Northern Territory. We spent a lot of time camping and hiking and mucking around outdoors and at the time we didn't know that the nature was having an effect on us, that it was, but we just enjoyed it. But once you took that out and you know I was working in Singapore and my brother was working for one of the Australia's largest banks and we were talking about it we were feeling that same friction, charlie, was that we're getting burnt out. We're spending so much time on our computer, we're spending so much time in the city, too much time around lights and pollution, that we're feeling shitty for it and what's missing that time in nature. And we were doing that. But we were doing one trip a year, you know, going to exotic places and spending our leave that we had on this one trip, but then you'd come back feeling worse for a year to have a mountain of emails stacking up. So that problem, which we've learned, is a universal one, or fairly universal one, for people living and working in urban areas.
Speaker 3:Yeah, was the driver, and to have a solution for ourselves was the first step. So my brother and I bootstrapped a couple of cabins. We worked with some friends from uni to, at the time, a tiny house, which is sort of the mode that we chose because it's transportable. They didn't exist in Australia or New Zealand. We worked with a Bulgarian architect that we found online who'd built one, and spoke to a couple of people in the US. And then, yeah, with some friends from uni, patched together the first couple of cabins, sent out 10,000 postcards, went and dawned off to find some land partners to work with.
Speaker 3:So, for anyone who's not fully across our model, we unlock private properties or properties held by organisations, government institutions, not-for-profits, anyone who has access to large wilderness areas that are perhaps being underutilised. As wild as possible is what we look like, and then we can unlock these, you know, give them back to the public in a sense, make them accessible again, again and then put hotel level accommodation and amenities in there. But it's all off-grid, it's all low touch, it's all about composting toilet, but we use local water sources so we can get this amenity into somewhere that had previously been unlocked and you know had also been inaccessible. You know you had to hike in there with a tent, but now we unlock it and then the purpose is to help people then access the benefits of nature, get out of the city, get away from that friction that we were feeling, spend two days in nature and the science around it is compelling.
Speaker 3:It shows that your cortisol levels will decrease, heart rate will decrease, your inflammation markers will go down, you can think better, you're more creative, you're happier, you feel more connected with other people. It's intense, the bucket of positive interactions that happen to your body when you spend time in anxious. So yeah, our role is an educator around that and then a conduit to be able to connect people and make it easily accessible. So that's a long-wind be able to connect people and make it easily accessible. So that's a long-winded answer to how did we start. But that's it, thank you.
Speaker 2:No, that's awesome. And so you got started with a couple of cabins yourself and I'm imagining you probably knocked up a website and started to promote it once you had some sites that you could use. Imagining it's fairly capital intensive to get these cabins. How did you get around that? Did you raise money? How did that work?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good question. So we bootstrapped the first couple ourselves and, you know, did them on a dime, so to speak. And then I built a WordPress website, at the time seeded an article in a publication called Concrete Playground, which was a sort of millennial popular publication here. They sort of dropped the launch article and then we brought their website down briefly for a few minutes and it was their most popular article in years. And that was sort of the point that we were like okay, we're onto something here, there is a demand for this and we're going to need to find more capital, that there is a demand for this and we're going to need to find more capital.
Speaker 3:So we were lucky enough to have a few sort of enterprising angel investors reach out to us through that first tranche of media. So that gave us the first little lick of capital. It wasn't quite enough for us to quit our day jobs at the time, so we were still working corporate roles and then evenings and weekends, you know, heading out to the cabin to clean, composting toilets. But from those first connections there's a couple of couple of first players there. The networking began and that's really how we've funded the business. Since then we've raised over 45 million or so to date. It's just been. Those first couple of people introduced us to five people. Each first couple of people introduced us to five people each and those five people introduced us to five people each and there's been a lot of conversations, a lot of wheeling and dealing, but that's essentially how we've handled it.
Speaker 2:And so has that capital been raised? You know, like you've got a cap table with a lot of different investors on, or have they funded it in some other way? That's not, you know, directly taking share capital in the company.
Speaker 3:We've sort of explored and evolved a number of different capital modes over the journey. So we do have a large cap table of individual shareholders. For the first four or five years of the business, the largest investment, single investment, would have been a couple of hundred thousand, and you know we would have had a lot more in the sort of 50,000 to 25,000 range. So we did have to deal with a lot of people, but that was also something that in hindsight we've said was a benefit, gave us access to the informal advisory board and we had all of these sort of proponents of the business at this sort of level of high net worth individual and it gave us networks and skills that we wouldn't have had access to potentially and also gave us a bit more room to find ourselves.
Speaker 3:If we'd gone with one large investor at the beginning giving away a larger chunk of the business, we would have had to be beholden to them and how they want to grow the business. So we've been able to grow it a bit more organically because of that route. So, yeah, we took a lot of smaller checks from a lot of great people, and then we've also done a crowdfund to get our community involved, which was as much a marketing initiative, as it was a fundraising one. So you know, the idea was to create some brand evangelists and have people invest in the business who are also using the business and the product. And then you know we've brought on venture debt, we've got private equity now. So you know we've sort of run the gambit.
Speaker 2:And excuse the naivety, but because you have got a lot of investors on the cap table, both through the crowdfunding approach and direct approach and networking etc. Does that mean that you have requirements around being somewhat almost not necessarily publicly listed, but just a higher reporting requirement because you've just got more people in there on the cap table? Yeah, you do have to be creative people in there on the cap table.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you do have to be creative. There's, I think, what a bear trust where you can group people together into the one entity and as long as those people are happy to do that, then they appear as one, you know, on the cap table instead of many. So we've we've leveraged that as as we've hit that marker of 50 plus. The crowd fund works a little bit similar to that, but it also has sort of newer legislation around it that does make it less onerous. So, you know, our reporting to our board and our shareholders already sort of hits any requirements, so it's not something that should be shied away from.
Speaker 2:I don't think for that purpose yeah, and tell me a little bit about the journey of growing the company. So you know the two of you, so your brothers you were saying you and Cam, so your brothers you start the company, you start adding cabins and that starts, you know, meaning that you've got more customers, you've got more need to hire staff, et cetera. That journey over the last eight years, how's that gone in terms of, you know, growing that out and the changing, changing nature of being a co-founder and a CEO of a company that's growing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it keeps us guessing, which we love. So my brother it's not just my brother, my twin brother, cam so I think that's been a blessing, the fact that we can put ourselves into this sort of pressure cooker environment that we know factually tests a lot of co-founders and a lot of co-founders can't take the heat and it ends up with a broken relationship and you know it's one of the largest reasons that startups fail. So us being twins, although you know it might mean more agreements or disagreements, it means that we can't ultimately break up because we were born together. So that has helped that journey. And, yeah, as the business grows and we get more customers and more employees, we always Charlie knows this analogy talk about growing a startup as going up steps.
Speaker 3:You know it's not your standard line graph that just goes up diagonal, it's steps, and so you know you'll be on the plateau and you know you'll be cruising and everything will be great. But then you're going to hit that next step and you're going to have to go straight up and that's when we've got to, you know, find new employees for new skills, for new stages of the business, or we've got to grow our customer base at a faster rate than we're rolling out cabins, because we've just brought on new investments, so we're rolling cabins out. The marketing has a three to six-month lead time, so really we've got to start that previously. So you know, there's all sorts of learnings along the way, but with that step analogy we've been able to sort of take it as it comes. And you know, when we know we hit an up step, that's just we've got to knuckle down and work hard on it.
Speaker 2:And I'm imagining that. You know, like any other startup founder, you have stress and you have almost a desire and a need to go and use your own product. Can you get away by going and using an unyoke cabin yourself? Do you get away? Or do you because you're literally living inside your own product? At that point you're like, well, we can't really escape it and you notice something that you need to change or you think of an idea. How does that work? Do you use them for that purpose?
Speaker 3:I do, I do actually I use them for that purpose. I do, I do. Actually, I use them for a few purposes. The purpose I tend to use them for most is the creative environment, and so I use it to go there to tackle something. You know, I had a presentation at a 1,000-person conference late last year and prior to that I went and spent four days in one of the cabins and I brought my post-it notes and my whiteboard markers and I was riding on the on the glass doors and then I was going for for a hike and I was coming back and the science around what spending time in it can do for your creative and your critical problem solving is really interesting and I know it to be true.
Speaker 3:So you know the same way to start a year off, I go down there and I spend three days and the first part's just. The first day is just sort of peeling back the stress, and then the second day is looking at my past year retrospectively and then the third day is looking at the year coming and setting my goals. So I find it really useful using it for those instances and then definitely I just go out there to chill out. You know I met Charlie and those kawakawa bay ones. Earlier this year we had a hot tub together there in the forest. You know definitely can still get that experience, even though my brain is is firing. I usually do a sweep when I start and then a sweep when I end and take all the notes and then the middle part I can. I can spend that how you should.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting because one of the reflections I had while I was there is it would be because one of the reflections I had while I was there is it would be because the particular location I had there were three cabins within walking distance of one another, albeit you can't see the other cabins and you feel incredibly isolated and alone, which is so awesome, but you could use it as some sort of team retreat, because you could have a couple of people in one cabin, a couple of people in another and you could then, you know, spend time alone, but you could also get together in the evenings around the campfire, et cetera. Pretty cool. So give us a sense of size and scale now. You said you've raised $45 million. My understanding is you've got over 100 cabins now, or am I well out of date with that number?
Speaker 3:Oh, cabins now, or am I well out of date with that number? Oh, yeah, yeah, we're sitting at about 120 or so cabins that are live. We've got the number in production both in Australia and we ship to from Australia, new Zealand and then in the UK, where we've got a growing market as well. So you know, I've been over in Europe having a look at potential new markets recently but at the moment, yeah, those are our sort of three core markets and we've got a lot of growth over the next sort of 18 months. You know, our aim is to unlock as many awesome landscapes that the world has, you know, and make them accessible to our community. So I'd love cabins in all sorts of weird and wonderful places for you to be able to know that Anyo can get you access to the best expression of a landscape that a country has by yourself. So you're there, just nature, just birds, just trees, and you can really experience it.
Speaker 2:What's the hardest part of building a business like this? Because it's not a technology business per se. In fact, it's the antithesis of that. It's something that's designed to get you away from screens and to connect with ourselves in a better way. But no doubt there will still be really challenging aspects to building a business like this. What have you found to be one of the hardest things about building a physical business and I guess, almost like a tourism business, charlie, you want to jump in.
Speaker 1:I guess one of the challenges is localising it right, like I sort of came on board with Unyorked and really wanted to facilitate the same experience in New Zealand but add a lot of different touch points to be able to really authentically engage with the community here but make it Kiwi, give it some Kiwi substance. So I think one of the challenges for New Zealand is the fact that a lot of Kiwis know and are aware we have some of the best landscapes in the world but I think still spend a lot their time indoors. And if we do go into the outdoors we take that busy mindset with us and we we love adventure sports and don't get me wrong, I mean you can see from my office garage background here I'm also a passion of adrenaline sports. But blasting down a chute on a snowboard or going fast down a mountain on a mountain bike, sure it reduces, you know, endorphins and adrenaline, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you come back rested or, you know, refreshed, or you know, mentally and physically.
Speaker 1:So I think it's it's been a little bit of a challenge to try and help people break that cycle and realize the need to actually be content, doing nothing at times and just actually slow down, recalibrate, refresh and how that can impact your wellness and your creativity and your and your stress and your focus. Like chris was saying, I think that sort of shift in behavior is a little bit of a challenge, but we are starting to make some great inroads with that and people are starting to realize that it's an indispensable part of your routine and that nature is actually like really good solution to a lot of the pressure you're under in a sort of modern life oh, undoubtedly, and I know in my own experience the best insights I get are when I'm not at work and I use work almost at speech marks when I'm not at a computer, when I'm not at a phone, when I'm not in civilization, I'm generally out in nature.
Speaker 2:I'm either going for a run or, like I said, I've experienced your cabin. So, getting that insight whether it's a think week, whether it's a full week, whether it's a day or two, just getting off the grid and becoming one again with nature you just make better decisions. You get a better insight. Hey, just let me pause you there for a second and tell you about some help that's available for startup founders. One of the biggest reasons startups fail is that the founders give up. They just burn out through struggling with aligning all of their people to what it is they're trying to do. It doesn't have to be like that, though.
Speaker 2:Jess dalberg is an expert in startup performance, and she works to align your team to the performance you need so that you, as founders, can get on and scale with confidence. Simply head to jessdahlbergcom backslash scale up. That's Jess Dahlberg D-A-H-L-B-E-R-Gcom backslash scale up. Use promo code scale up 2024 and start removing those headaches. Let's get back to the show 2024 and start removing those headaches. Let's get back to the show. So, in terms of the business element of Unyoked, has the most challenging part been around what? Gaining access to land, making people aware of the need to go and do what we just talked about. What's the toughest part about building the business in that sense?
Speaker 1:I think just to touch on the New Zealand side again, I think what we also offer is that ability to provide some sustainable and passive revenue to landowners. That's ag cycle resistant. As I said before, I grew up on a farm and have worked on farms and understand the pressures of that environment, especially as a really agricultural country, and I think it was a little bit of a shift in mentality for a lot of landowners as well to understand that this actually provides a really good source of revenue that is consistent and is regular. But people are precious of their land too. They don't want strangers walking over it, especially if they've got things like cowrie dieback disease in the country and they fear that people interfere with their farming operations and things like cowrie dieback disease in the country and they fear that people interfere with their farming operations and things like that, and if there's injury on farms too.
Speaker 1:But I think that once we got a few going, people started to realize that she was a really good sort of additional hustle or model on your farm to make some money. And yeah, that took a little bit of time, but now we've got sort of a pipeline of around 500 leads and the plan donors want a cabin. So you know, I guess that was one of the early challenges. Would you agree with that, chris and Ozzy? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:I think we've had various bottlenecks that we've had to throw over the life cycle of the business for sure, and a lot of it comes down to us wanting to operate at this sort of top quality point. To operate at this sort of top quality point, we don't want to be doing things that other people can do. We don't want to be settling for just any old paddock or you know, a small patch of land where you can see a house or a road. We really only want raw expressions of nature where you can fully immerse into. But it has to be accessible by a two-wheel drive, it has to have potable water near it, it has to be beautiful and give you that tingle on the neck that Charlie got on his walk when he first came up with the idea to bring a yoke to New Zealand. So that's what we want to give everybody.
Speaker 3:But to be able to do that it takes a lot. Out of that 500 properties that we've got, we need our team to go phone, screen them, desktop analysis, analysis with map overlays and topographical maps, and then we need to go out and do site visits and track the property and mark potential cabins and then do noise and site tests to make sure that you can't see or hear from those locations, and then there's all sorts of preparation and set up and that goes into it. So being able to do that on a large scale across three countries has definitely had its difficulty, but it's also one of the most fun parts about building the business as well is that we get to see all of these awesome properties and try and find these hidden gems of locations that can create that tingle and get people excited.
Speaker 2:One of the things I was most impressed about was how you had thought of all of the little details so to give listeners some sort of sense of the experience. So the cabin it is out of sight of other people so you're not going to get looked on by others. Yet you are close so, as you said, two-wheel drive access you can take your car in there. It was only a really short walk into this lovely secluded place. The creek runs through. It had a bit of an elevated aspect, so the view across the canopy of the tree line was fantastic. The sun and the way the sun comes in is superb.
Speaker 2:It's solar powered and yet never ran out of power. There always seemed to be enough power there. You had even just things like organic soaps and things like that to use wine. Everything was there and an incredibly comfortable bed. So I know you've also built partnerships with other suppliers. So, for example, there was enamel cups and plates, et cetera, which made that sort of experience even more authentic. Sleepy head on the bed. The linen was good. How long did it take you before you started building partnerships with other suppliers into the Unyoked experience? Was that something that you set out to do from the get-go when you got the first couple of cabins.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or is that something that's evolved? From an origin perspective? It was something that we set about really early on, namely because it's less capital outlay for us if we can get a partnership to provide the mattresses, the coffee and the amenities. We've been lucky enough that we've had a lot of companies approach us for these sort of partnerships and so we can screen them and look for the best quality that will give our customers the best possible experience. So, yeah, it's been something that we've said about from the beginning, not just the cost benefits, but also the reach benefits.
Speaker 3:You know, when you're a growing business and you can partner with another business and then you can help cross-pollinate your customer pools and, you know, do posts on each other's channels and things like that, it's a big help. So I think it's a great little strategy. It helps you network and collaborate and meet awesome people, you know, within ancillary industries as well. So, yeah, from the get-go we've had that approach. We've got what we call the little big things. You know we put a lot of effort into those elements in the cabin. It's all around, helping you slow down, helping juxtapose against your normal life. Like you would assume, there's a hand and coffee grinder.
Speaker 1:You've got to put your beans in. And it's a little bit of an effort, but that's the point.
Speaker 3:So you've got to sit there and grind a couple of coffees worth of beans and you're just sitting there doing that. You're not putting a pod into a machine, then putting the pod into the landfill, you're just there grinding raw beans into powder. So there's a lot of elements that we put into the cabin with thought designed for that purpose yeah, and like things like cast iron.
Speaker 2:You know skillets and frying pans that were just so beautiful to cook with on the open fire and I was really impressed. You had it, and I don't even know what you call it, but there's like the hot tray and the grill pivots above the fireplace so you can actually set the cooking temperature while you're cooking. I thought that was. I wish I'd known about that years ago, when I had a little bit of an outdoor fire pit at home, because they're really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's about maximizing the environment. As Chris touched on earlier, it's the cabin's, the facilitator and all the little tiny pieces of intentionality are curated for the purpose of maximizing how you feel in that environment and what you get out of it and what you take home with you. And, as Chris mentioned, all the little products and all the little things have been given a lot of focus with clear purpose to help you do that and that are relatable and are localized. You know that people can associate with and bring more authenticity to the overall experience.
Speaker 3:Exactly those custom pans you mentioned. That's Ironclad Co. They're a great New Zealand business. You know really cool people behind it trying to do something. They're trying to build products that last three generations. So minimizing wastage, building something with intent that lasts is really a message that resonates with. You know what we're trying to do with our low touch experiences. So, um, yeah, they're the sort of partner that we look for?
Speaker 1:yeah, definitely, and you know that kind of product also adds to that experience of our kind of philosophy around sustainability and helping educate around off-grid living and living more sustainably, and you know we definitely take pride in that kind of ethos around taking steps to protect things for future generations as well, so we hope people come back with a bit more of a mindset around that too and how does it work between you two guys?
Speaker 2:So you know, one of you is a co-founder and one of you is running the business in New Zealand as general manager. I don't know, Charlie, whether you also run aspects of the wider business across Australia, the UK. But how does that work kind of day to day, Because there will be people listening to this who are thinking of bringing somebody into the team to take some of the load. How does that work at a practical level? You know you can talk openly about this.
Speaker 1:We have a really cool culture at unearthed and that's what really brought me in. It's just, it's a great bunch of people that are all heading in the same trajectory and there's no ego or superiority or any of that bullshit. It's just like we definitely have like this one team mentality that we collaborate really well. We are very open and transparent with each other and, yeah, we have healthy conflict as well and definitely it's been. You know, strategic decisions or true fight and head on. But you know, everybody has that between markets because ultimately the audiences are slightly different and there's cultural nuances.
Speaker 1:We are very locked into our central model. We have, you know, marketing team and our operations team. Our supply chain are all very integrated and we catch up regularly. We have whole team meetings as well, once every couple of weeks across four countries I think chris, australia, new zealand to the uk and the philippines. We all get online and we have project steering groups together. We all discuss and ultimately we're all mates. Like we catch up and we have really good team off sites where we go into nature and we talk strategy and we figure out what's working, what doesn't work. We inspire the sort of creativity and that allows us to kind of, yeah, I guess, build the experience even more for our community too. But yeah, it's a model that works really well because of the openness and transparency I think.
Speaker 2:Does it help that you guys are mates from high school, or does that almost get in the way because you're like mate, don't give me that. You know, don't give me that bullshit. I know what you were like when you were 16. Or does it actually? It's a positive because you know each other so well and you can trust one another.
Speaker 1:I think it's a positive. Like, chris and I have like a weekly catch up that we call just a walk and talk. So you know it's not even on a screen, we're not looking at tasks, we're just chatting and we check in with each other and we ask each other about how our mental health is for the week and what our families are up to and like what do we do on the weekend, and then we talk shop. You know it's not really like he's my boss, I'm his minion in new zealand. It's more of a, I'd say, a neutral hierarchy where we kind of all hitting in the same direction and we kind of see each other on the same sort of platform. Do you, do you agree with that, chris? Or maybe maybe you don't?
Speaker 3:Very much. So. That's the. That's exactly how it's collaborative. We're all enjoying what we're doing and enjoying being around each other. And you know it's it's about hiring the right people and, like Charlie, he's that right sort of person for the role. He's got a positive bias and he's a can-do sort of guy, you know, as a as a country starter, which is what he. He you know that took it when there wasn't a business in the country and he's had to wear a lot of hats to get it done and he's the perfect sort of person for that. So I think it's about picking the right people. So it wasn't just because Charlie was, it was mate, it was because he was the right guy with the right skills for this role. And then, yeah, having the culture that we do, which keeps everyone sort of on the level and everyone has a say, and then making sure there's structure to it too. So we've got the right meetings at the right time, where people know that that's the time and place to have that say yeah, it all works well.
Speaker 2:And is the team fully remote or do you have some sort of central office somewhere?
Speaker 3:or We've got an office in Sydney and we've got an office in the UK as well and then in New Zealand. We're remote at the moment, although Charlie's over here quite often and I'm over there quite often, Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and no sort of thoughts of having a head office in a cabin, right, yeah, and no sort of thoughts of having a head office in a cabin, which is really good wi-fi, which is then probably not off the grid.
Speaker 3:Then is it yeah, we've got, we've got maybe our four original cabins, the ogs, like the couple that cam, and I did our stuff with some friends and then the first couple of prototypes. After that They've been sort of sunsetted from normal run but they're up at one of our colleagues' property here outside Sydney and we go up as a team and you know we all do strategic sessions and some off-sites there. So you know that's, you know halfway there, but I don't think our full-time office with as many people as we have these days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, chris. You've been at the founder game now for a while. Any comments, thoughts, ideas for other founders on things they should be? You know advice you would want to impart with other founders, things you've learned along your journey that have made a big difference to you. Know how you go about building a business. Is there something that you'd want to share with?
Speaker 3:founders? That's a good question. I mean something that comes to mind just because I just touched on it there with Charlie but is hiring for optimism. It's something that we made an active choice to do from early on, and not blind optimism, but a positive bias. And so testing your hires for that for initiative as well, but for a positive bias, I think, has really enabled us to have this culture and have the people around us that we enjoy working with and that, you know, see problems as challenges to overcome, not as issues to complain about. You know that's that's been a real key, I think, to our success in building the team that we've managed to build and, you know, to the listeners who don't think they have a positive key, I think, to our success in building the team that we've managed to build and to the listeners who don't think they have a positive bias, it is something that I think you can train and work on, so don't count yourself out.
Speaker 3:I think stuff like daily gratitude and focusing on the positives and changing your language with yourself and there's some things you can do. But for a founder, it's a big benefit to have those sort of people in your team and to be able to catch people who might not be there yet before you bring them on and what are your respective superpowers?
Speaker 2:for both of you, you know that make a big difference to building unyoked, and I know you're both humble guys, but what would you say? Those?
Speaker 1:are, from my perspective, like launching a company in a newer emerging market, as chris mentioned. You know you have to have a degree of flexibility and wear a few hats at times and do things that you know, reprioritize things and, I think, resourcefulness as well. I think I've had to kind of adopt a mentality that there's no point thinking about the things that you don't have. You know you should be focused on what you can do with what you've got and at times that means just grinding and putting your head down and getting work. But also I think it's been really important to reach out to the central team for support when I've needed it as well, definitely.
Speaker 1:And I guess the other thing is that sort of power of intentionality that chris touched on before with the experience and you know I read a quote a while ago that people will forget what you do, they'll forget what you said, but they'll never forget how you made them feel. So for me it's been a real emphasis on focusing on that experience and how and what sort of sense of belonging people have when they're engaged in our community and what they walk away feeling. So I think like if you can kind of really focus on curating an experience or a level of hospitality, or regardless of your industry. If you can make people walking away feeling really good about themselves, you're going to be successful in whatever business you're in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can see the brand that you're building even just through not just the experience that you get when you stay at a cabin, but also just the way that you do your merch and your caps and the apparel et cetera. Are you building a brand that people can really connect with and it's a brand where, ideally, they had quite a special experience, maybe a bit of a life-changing moment, and so to be able to connect with those sort of times pretty special. It must be easy, with the wider team to build the why you know, like why you guys do this. It just it feels like it just comes through your pores for both of you. Chris, what about you? From a superpower? What do you think makes you know something about you that makes unyoked that bit more successful? Because you're just bloody good at it?
Speaker 3:it's probably a soft skill similar to to what charlie mentioned, but I'd say empathy. The ability to be empathetic has really helped me in my journey and you know, from the ground floor level of understanding customers to you know, treating every customer who's even had a mild or experience in the early days, going above and beyond, to then being able to read people and hire the right people, to being able to communicate in the right way with my team and my stakeholders, and in fundraising. I think it's been a real skill that I've been able to lean on and, yeah, it's helped me get to this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in terms of ways that you each get inspired or get ideas for building the business, are there things that you've read books, know books, that you've read podcasts, you listen to music, you know how do you get a sense of inspiration, or is it just feeling the product? Like I would imagine that's actually kind of easy to do with the product that you have. But is there something that you guys do to kind of recharge outside of going and visiting a cabin?
Speaker 3:Interacting with nature in any way is good and that's. You know we like to champion that it doesn't have to be a cabin. So you know I'm often at the beach I live near the beach, you know walking or going to the park. Yesterday I was driving into the city to go to a meeting and I stopped at the Botanic Gardens and had a quick walk around and then went to my meeting. So just little cheeky stop-offs like that helped keep me going. In terms of podcasts and books, I listen to a bit of Jay Shetty. He's on purpose, I don't know if you've come across him. He interviews interesting people and I quite like his sort of philosophic approach. I read a bit of sort of history. I just finished a biography on Leonardo da Vinci which was really interesting.
Speaker 2:The Walter Isaacson one. Yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fascinating, right, and that junction between unscience is really somewhere that we're trying to take on the oath, because there's so much science behind nature, but it also, you know, it is an art, there's a creative side to it, there's something that you just feel that you can't explain. So I resonated with that. Um. So yeah, looking to the past for ideas for the future is, I think, something that's that's key to staying on top of things fantastic, charlie.
Speaker 1:what about you? I, um, I had a few years experience in the medical industry as well, so I always like, quite enjoyed reading the medical papers around nature's impact and that kind of proof that it's the kind of defense or the prophylactic response at the top of the cliff as opposed to the ambulance at the bottom. I've dug deep into heaps of anecdotal evidence around the reduction in cortisol levels it's around 21% per hour spent in nature. The impact around your creative output, the ability to sleep better, the ability to think and improve your cognitive function. So I really enjoy that side of things.
Speaker 1:I love being in nature as well myself. I mean, I kind of live near the beach, luckily enough, and also spend a bit of time in the hills. I enjoy things like hunting and fishing and diving, not so much from the killing aspect of it at all, but more so around harvesting my own food and cooking it and just generally being out there and using it as a place of reflection. Also love to read as well. I read a great book, unreasonable Hospitality, recently which I highly recommend, and it's kind of what I was touching on before. Isn't around like putting your team and your customer at the heart of every decision and using that intentionality to create an experience. I think, yeah, it's a fascinating read as well.
Speaker 2:It's funny. You should say that because I have just done an interview with Aaron Ward, who is the co-founder of Ask Nicely, and he also mentioned that a book he has just finished reading is Unreasonable Hospitality. To anybody listening, I'm not sponsored by the author of Unreasonable Hospitality, but it sounds like it's a really, really good book. It sounds like a fantastic read. Guys, I'm going to wrap up there, but just to say that, charlie, when I first met you, you were so passionate about what Unyoked does, honestly, you needed no encouragement to share what Unyoked is all about and what changes it can have on people's lives, and I didn't need any convincing, like I think. I felt like I fell over you with enthusiasm and excitement for the Unyoked experience and, having just experienced it, it was truly outstanding. Like it really was a couple of nights that were really really special. We were super fortunate that the weather was good, the stars were out, cooking fajitas on an open fire just outstanding. Doing coffee on an open fire with fresh beans, et cetera, and, as I say, just hearing the New Zealand bird life listening to the creek. It really is amazing.
Speaker 2:So for anybody out there, regardless of actually what you do, a lot of people listening to this in the startup world. If you're in the startup world and you're feeling a bit frazzled, a bit fried, check out Unyoked. It's unyokedcom. So it's just an outstanding, outstanding experience. I want to thank you guys, not only for the interview today, but just what you're doing, what you're building, because people can experience that time out in such a profound way and reconnect with themselves, with people they love, with their business ideas, the love for their business, whatever it is that they do. I certainly need no convincing and if if you're listening to this, go and check out the website but most importantly now go and check out an actual cabin and that experience.
Speaker 2:So thank you guys really, really appreciate it. That's great, thank you very much.