Insight Out
Insight Out is a podcast brought to you by Pavel and Carolina as a side activity during their PhD studies. We are curious minds and science enthusiastics. Insight Out focuses on daily lives of academicians and entrepreneurs. We like to talk about all types of experiences in science, scientific commmunities and especially love personal stories of our guests. This is the place where science get unfiltered with honest, truthful and engaging discussions with our guests!
Insight Out
Auksė Beatričė Katarskytė: Tracing British Identity Through Viking Sagas and Gender Studies
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When Victorians gazed upon the Old Norse sagas, they saw a reflection of themselves, a sentiment that Auksė unravels with nuanced insight. We traverse through time to uncover how 19th-century Britain's enchantment with these ancient texts shaped a national ethos, while also diving into Aukse's current research which illuminates the impact of literary translations on cultural identity. Our conversation is a testament to the power of literature to transcend time and place, offering a mirror to our own lives and histories. Join us for this episode that not only bridges the past to the present but celebrates the indelible footprint literature leaves on our collective soul. Kick back, relax, and let the waves of wisdom wash over you in this podcast episode – where learning meets laughter, and knowledge is served with a side of chill vibes!
Learn more about Auksė: https://www.stk.uio.no/english/people/aca/auksebk/index.html
Article discussed in the episode: https://www.journals.vu.lt/scandinavistica/article/view/32789
Njals saga: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/011546719
Viktors saga: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktors_saga_ok_Bl%C3%A1vus
For curious minds (Poetic Edda): https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-poetic-edda-9780199675340?cc=no&lang=en&
Check also: Lavinia Greenlaw, "Questions of Travel: William Morris in Iceland" (Notting Hill Editions, 2017).
All music clips were used from the song "Jukka Tukka" after agreement with amazing band and friends 2+1 Jam band.
This podcast episode was created under the technical and official support of University of Oslo, Norway.
Welcome to the new episode of our podcast series Inside Out, and today we have a very interesting guest, hi Aukse.
Speaker 2Hello Pavel.
Speaker 1Can you briefly introduce yourself, please?
Speaker 2Of course, my name is Aukse. My full name is Aukse Betricek-Koterskita. I don't always introduce myself with my full name because it's a bit long and difficult to pronounce for non-Lithuanian speakers. I'm a PhD student at the University of Oslo, the Center of Gender Studies, and I've been in the center for almost two years as a PhD student and then as a regular student for two years.
Speaker 1Good, so you're a student now. Phd student studying literature.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1So what was your motivation to study literature? When did you decide that you want to go and study this topic?
Speaker 2Yeah, I've always been quite fond of reading in general, but as a kid I don't think I could or I don't think I imagined a profession with reading. I remember at some point in my life I really wanted to become a fashion designer it was when I was like six or seven years old and then, of course, maybe a writer all those different professions that all children dream of. And then when I had to choose a study program, like the last years of high school, I was so frustrated. I really didn't know what I wanted and I kind of, I think I didn't realize how much I liked reading and writing and how important it was and how much joy I used to get out of it. I think I just thought, okay, there's something that I'm good at and that's it.
Speaker 2But then when I applied for studies, I remember I wanted something more practical or maybe more straightforward than literature or languages. But then I ended up getting a spot in the Scandinavian Studies Department at Vilnius University in Lithuania and I think it was the best choice I could make at that point, because I really enjoyed the study program and I'm still in touch with some of the fantastic teachers there and most of my best friends are from that study program too, and it really opened up a new world for me, and also a world not only of literature, languages, but also different countries, because I studied Danish, but we also learned about Scandinavian literature in general, and then of course we had Icelandic and old Icelandic or old Norse. There too, Perfect.
Speaker 1So was it like for you when you finished the bachelor studies?
Speaker 2so was it like kind of turning point for you that you decided, okay, I want to study more of the, the nordic studies, and then you moved to I moved to yeah yeah, I mean not right away I remember finishing my bachelor's because during my bachelor's I also did then Erasmus in Copenhagen, so it was there where I discovered Old Norse literature more properly, where I actually took some more in-depth courses in that. But then I finished my bachelor's and then came back from Copenhagen to my parents' house in a small town in the northwest of Lithuania and I was thinking, okay, I'll take two or three months at home and then I'll figure out what I actually want to do with my life. And of course it was not such a bright idea because while being there, of course I liked and I'm very privileged and happy that I could spend like two or three months just working from home and doing some translations and being fed by my parents. But of course I didn't really figure out anything about what I wanted to do, really figured out, figure out anything about what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2But after that I ended up in Iceland doing a, an internship in a culture house, the Nordic house, which also showed me like the contemporary art and literary world of Scandinavia, which was very nice. And then, because I was already in Iceland, I applied for a master's in Iceland which was called Viking and Medieval Norse Studies, because I thought, okay, that's an interesting master and it's also Iceland is like the best place to actually study those things. So all of my study choices, they sound a bit and they at that point they also felt like very random for me and they can sound a bit random. But now when I look back to it, like everything makes so much sense. But I guess, like with different things in life, it does make sense retrospectively and not at the point of actually making those choices.
Speaker 1Yeah, so to me it sounds like very niche study topic, right? Yeah, so to me it sounds like very niche study topic, right. So it's actually like very, very. It overlaps very nicely.
Speaker 2Studying in Iceland and studying the old Norse it does yeah so I have.
Speaker 2I think it must be like very unique experience it was a lot of fun, and especially because my fellow students were from different countries there were students from the US, italy, austria, and everyone was very interested in different topics having to do with Old Norse, and they came also from different disciplines like history, archaeology and literature and other things, and so this was very nice to be in an international community in Iceland.
Speaker 2Um, but, um, yeah, what did I want to say? Um, yeah, um, the old Norse is a niche topic, but it's also a topic that's yeah, the Old Norse is a niche topic, but it's also a topic that's being taught in many different countries in the world and it's quite special and very interesting, maybe because the Icelanders in the Middle Ages they were so interested in the whole world too and they wrote about so many different things have such a um, um, yeah, quite a spectacular corpus or a spectacular um literature in general. That's why it's also being taught in lithuania, for example, or the us, or, uh, the uk and italy and yeah, um. So it's also both quite special to study that in Iceland, but also maybe quite ordinary, because where do you else go for a master's in?
Speaker 1Old Norse. It's like a small area maybe, to choose from. Yeah, okay, let me return a little bit for the fellow language nerds. How many Nordic languages can you speak now or in the past, old norse included?
Speaker 2well, um, nordic languages I did danish for my bachelor's and then, when I moved to norway, I switched to norwegian because languages are so close and it kind of made more sense. So I understand Swedish, but I can't speak it. And then Icelandic modern Icelandic I'm quite bad at, but I can understand and read it, while Old Norse I wish I could speak Old Norse, but nobody ever taught us to speak Old Norse, unfortunately. But I'm quite good at reading it. But it's also a skill that I don't really use that much anymore. Um, yeah, and of course, what else I don't? I can't speak Faroese, neither Faroese or Greenlandic, but that would be nice, yeah that's amazing.
Speaker 1Uh, I'm actually wondering how. How close, or is there any language close to old norse nowadays?
Speaker 2is it like?
Speaker 1the icelandic or is it norwegian?
Speaker 2yeah, or I would say modern icelandic is quite close to old norse, or it's sometimes also called old old ic or Old Norwegian, because the vocabulary is different and of course, modern Icelandic has so many new words. But I would say that Icelanders living today they can still read the sagas in a normalized form or in a language that's not like a manuscript language, quite easily, with like knowing that some verbs or some nouns maybe mean something different, but the grammar is almost the same. So learning old Icelandic and modern Icelandic at the university was quite nice because then you could practice both of them at the same time and, yeah, so they're quite close.
Speaker 1So, regarding your phd project, can you tell us a little bit about your project and what are you doing, and maybe how your daily lives looks when you research?
British Identity and Viking Heritage
Speaker 2yeah, yeah, my project in like academic language is on the reception of old norse literature in victorian britain, which basically means um, let's say, upper class ladies in London. That's what I usually say to kind of give a picture of what I research Upper class ladies in London writing poetry about Vikings, for example. I research women writers who write on medieval Icelandic or Norwegian topics, who write on medieval Icelandic or Norwegian topics, and those are novels, poems, plays, sometimes something that's in the middle of genres, and some of the authors that I've been reading I'm not really sure if I'm going to write about them are also travelers and they travel to Iceland or Norway and then write about their travels in the 19th century but also incorporate some, for example, history, or they present the country and its literature, and so those sources I can also use, and I also wrote my master's on one of those authors and I expect to continue on writing about her. Um and my everyday life, or my uh.
Speaker 2Monday to Friday um looks um. Yeah, how does it look? Um? I'm very lucky to have my own uh office or my own room at the center of gender studies, so I usually go there and if I don't have teaching or if I don't have meetings, I just read and try to write, which is always a headache. And, um, I've been teaching quite a lot and I'm almost done with my teaching duties, so I guess my life will look a bit different.
Speaker 2Uh, soon, when I don't have seminars anymore yeah, totally understand, yeah yeah, but it's been nice, like especially during the first year or the first months. Uh, I would allow myself quite a lot of reading. I would just sit and read a book from the beginning to end. I don't really feel like I have time for that anymore, which is a bit sad actually, but maybe because the time pressure and I also feel like I've read so much already that I actually just need to start writing makes that I don't really read that intensely anymore. But, like right now, I'm trying to figure out yeah, how much I still. What do I need to read for this specific um draft, for example? So it's more like um, uh, goal-oriented reading. No, yeah, but I do read quite a lot nice, I uh.
Speaker 1Yeah, I like reading too. I just cannot think now if I would be able to, you know, read for my work.
Speaker 2And you're also like in the end of your, almost in the end of your period, so that's kind of you have to write and write and write and research and research.
Speaker 1Okay, I will return a little bit to different topics we mentioned before.
Speaker 2So let's do some historical excursion yeah, I hope I can manage that because you said you are studying the victorian era yeah and the victorians were quite crazy about the vikings histories etc.
Speaker 1So could you briefly just like sketch out like what type of literature sources they used to study like you mentioned sagas, right.
Speaker 2So if you just tell us some short division of those sagas, yeah, yeah, so the victorians were famously very interested in all kinds of literature. But what I find is that the vikings, or the viking as a concept, was quite a quite a mainstream concept and everyone knew about it and there were a lot of people very interested in old norse literature and during the victorian age, which is quite a long period, it's almost synonymous with the 19th century, even though queen victoria didn't really reign for the whole of the century. So the Victorians, or the British at that time, they really managed to translate quite a lot of Old Norse literature. And when we talk about Old Norse literature, we talk about different genres and also different types of literature. We can talk about edic poetry or skaldic poetry, but we can also talk about the sagas that you just mentioned, which also come in different versions or in different genres, and maybe that's what's so interesting, because it also shows how broadly icelandic people read and wrote in the medieval ages, because they were interested in so many different things.
Speaker 2And, uh, from recording the pagan lore, let's say in um, the edic material, and I refer to the two eddas that we usually talk about, which is the poetic edda and the prose edda. Um, I know, maybe I'll leave it for now and if you want to ask more?
Speaker 2questions about it. We can talk about it later and the um. But the sagas, uh the victorians in the beginning, like in the, as far as I've read uh in the beginning of the 19th century and also in the end of 18th century, they were more interested in those heroic sagas, or what we call the heroic heroic sagas about like very old times, let's say um, like before the viking age, or the um, the like the sagas that are uh, a bit fantastical, like they are about the 7th or the 8th century, and they also depict the times before the settlement of Iceland and they are sometimes set in Norway, sometimes they are set in the continent. So the early 19th century was more interested in those sagas. But then, gradually, the sagas of icelanders or the family sagas which we usually think of when we say saga literature, sagas that depict at the time around the? Uh christening of iceland around the year 1000, uh, all the feuds, all the killings, all the family dramas there. So those sagas became almost bestsellers in victorian britain around the middle or the late 19th century. And one of the examples is uh niaul saga or the saga of niaul or nial I don't know how to pronounce it in proper english, but it's the saga that I personally find and I'm a bit afraid to say that, but I find it very boring and I've been thinking about that. Why was it such a bestseller? Why did the Victorians like it so much?
Speaker 2And in the edition that I've been looking at, is translated by Dacent, or Dacent in the middle of 19th century, and you have two volumes. And then the first volume is quite thick it's maybe 400 pages and the half, one half or more than one half of the first volume is an introduction where the translator presents the literature, the history, the religion of iceland, and so it is a whole kind of experience. If you're reading the saga as a british person, at that time you get introduced to iceland as a country and as a culture, uh, but it also has all those connotations to the british past and what I've. So this is what my project is actually about. I would say it's more about the british identity and how they used the viking past to create their own identity, and it's one of the questions that I want to explore.
Speaker 2Um, because everything they write about vikings they also say about themselves, or now I'm saying the vikings, but, um, we can also discuss what that definition means, or what is the viking?
Speaker 2But um, for them, uh, the northern past, let's say uh is important for many reasons because, um, they find in it a lot of inspiration, but also, uh, for example, if we think about vikings as the, the understanding of vikings as travelers and um discoverers of new land, for example the americas and um. So we can also think that if the British, or when the British compare themselves to the Vikings, they also think about the empire and about the discovery and yeah, let's say discovery is not the right word, but like occupying new land and finding new land in a way. So they kind of connect themselves to the Vikingsikings as if they were, uh, they're as if the vikings were their forefathers that show them the way to, um, making their empire even bigger and stronger, and so on and so forth. So there's also a lot of like orientalistic or um colonial images, uh, in how they treat their viking heritage.
Speaker 1The british okay, that's very interesting. Actually was wondering if that something similar could happen, like in different era, like not only under reign of queen victoria but, like either later or before. What do you think why? Why did it happen, just like in victoria, you know?
Speaker 2yeah, that's a good question. I've been thinking about it and I hope that I can come a bit closer to that question, uh, when? Yeah, maybe later in my phd writing process, but with my supervisors I've also been talking about that maybe the british, uh, while becoming this huge empire and uh occupying new land and so on and so forth, and being such a big country with so many languages and so many cultures that it actually maybe lost its identity at some point at, and that people living in kind of the britain proper, like in london for example, suddenly didn't know who they were anymore. And then they turned to the past. They turned to the northern past. But also the british were not the only ones, uh, interested in um old norse literature, but maybe, like before, we have this whole german tradition also with brothers grim and all the new philology, but it's a bit earlier. And why the Old Norse enthusiasm blooms so much in, let's say, the end of the 19th century. I can't really give a specific answer, but I'm really interested in looking into that. And what's interesting also that the northern past means so many different things to so many different authors and also the authors that I write about. Each of them makes use of that material in their own way and some of them almost translate, let's's say, mythology, without changing the Old Norse sources that much, and some others use symbolism or different material from Old Norse literature and transforms that material into something completely new, into something a bit fantastical. Yeah, so there are many, many different opinions and many different transformations of the Old Norse literature in the with or like.
Speaker 2Think of is also how the Old Norse or the Northern past is being used in, like, extreme right-wing discourse, and I haven't really been involved in those discussions about how Northern past is used in those communities, but it's quite. It's also something that scholars have to think of when they present their work, because any conclusions, any, let's say, discoveries or reflections can be used against society. Basically, if, let's say, somebody from the extreme right wing reads an article and uses it to promote their beliefs, um, so it's also something like the viking imagery, um, how it's being used and so on and so forth. So I think scholars, and me included, have to be quite aware of that.
Speaker 2Um, yeah, and we can see the roots of a lot of racism in the victorian literature too, and recently I've been reading this um, the same translator of neil saga, um and his introduction to um, a different work, um, a collection and a collection of norwegian fairy tales. Um, and the introduction is just so racist, like seen from modern, from a modern perspective, that it's also almost difficult to read. Um and um, he says a lot of things that are really really uncomfortable to read, uh, but it's also so we can see the roots of that thinking like north against the south, or the civilized against the uncivilized, and all those dichotomies. They also appear in the Victorian age and then so we can see there is a connection there that I haven't really had time to explore. I'm not really sure if I'm going to explore that in my PhD project, but it's something that I have to be aware of too.
Speaker 1So let's talk a little bit about your publication. So you published one paper that was like created out of your master studies, if I'm correct. Yeah, yeah, tell us a little bit about that yeah, I recently published a paper.
Speaker 2Yeah, as you said, based on my master's thesis. I actually wrote it before starting my PhD and I'm very happy that I did it, because, talking with other PhD students, I can hear that it's quite a struggle and it was quite a struggle comprising my master's thesis into a short article, but I'm very grateful for my teachers at williams university for actually making me do it that's good yeah, um, my master's thesis, and also the article, is on the Victorian author Beatrice Helen Barby.
Speaker 2She lived in late 19th century and she died before any of her work was published in 1899. And I wrote about her play, gisli Sursson, a drama from 1900. From um 1900 or 1900, yeah, whatever. And um, it's a play closely based on an icelandic saga, one of the family sagas, gisla saga, and it's about an outlaw, basically a man who um makes or kills some people and then he's outlawed from the society and then it has to live while being hunted down. Basically, um, and I argue in my paper that the play is not only the hero, gisli, like the hero of the saga or the main character of the saga, but it's also a lot about the women in the saga, because gisli has a wife, uh, uh, odd, uh, or either in icelandic, and then, um, there's also another couple. So in my article I basically uh focus on the relationships between those two couples and connect them to, uh, the so-calledcalled woman question in the Victorian age, or, like, the woman question is not only relevant to the Victorian age, also to France around the time of the revolution, but it's something that basically refers to a debate about women's rights and about women's position in society, and also while reading Golden Horse literature women's position in society. And also while reading golden horse literature it can become quite apparent that it's quite a masculine type of literature. Like the most of the characters are men, and especially the family. Sagas, uh, are a lot about, um, families fighting with each other, but what it means is basically men fighting with each other and then their women or daughters or wives. They're participating, but not directly.
Speaker 2So my yeah, how did I come to Victorian feminism through all Norse literature, old Norse literature? That's a bit difficult to say, but I was very lucky to basically combine two of the things that I really liked, which was gender studies and also historical gender studies or the studies of the first waves of the feminist movement, and something that I had done for my master's. So my idea, while starting with this master's thesis, but also with my PhD project, was that maybe I can find some Old Norse models or Old Norse role models for the first generations of women rights activists, which means maybe some 19th century women's movement, maybe they have used some imagery from the old norse. So this is my uh, this would be the perfect source for me, which I haven't yet found, I'm not really sure if it even exists. So if any listeners know about any victorian feminists using like valkyries or whatever for their activism, I would very happy, be very happy to hear about it.
Old Norse Literature and Victorian Fascination
Speaker 2But uh, yeah, um, uh, what did I want to say? So in my paper I basically argue that uh, betris helen barmby uh manages to turn quite a violent and very men-oriented old Icelandic saga into a play about relationships and marriage and love and tenderness. Yeah, so I would also recommend reading the play. I think it's available, I think it's digitalized, and you can perhaps put a link to it in the description.
Speaker 1I don't know yeah, I can do that, definitely. Yeah, uh, nice, I mean it sounds very like, uh interesting, in a way that it reminds me a little bit like a game of thrones and stuff like that but like for victorians.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's what it is all those plays and all this poetry and all those novels. It's the same as like the viking series or the game of thrones or lord of the rings. For us, because this is like reception, uh as it is, that we take an old, um source, a literary source or some um, let's say, a historical event, and we make it into something new, or we use it and then we interpret it from with our eyes.
Speaker 1Yeah, totally, I actually will have follow up question for that. I just also have you know. The parallel appeared in my mind or imagination. So since you said that Victorians also traveled to the places where the sagas took place or other you know famous story happened, yeah, and it was quite popular back in the day to do that, yeah, and like maybe also find some, some artifacts from the locations. So it reminds me also like people now traveling to those locations all over the world like, yeah, where the movies were shot, or like the series game of thrones mountain.
Speaker 1Yeah do you think it's something similar like between those two types of visits?
Speaker 2Yeah, I would say yes Because that's also it's interesting that you take it up, because that was how I actually discovered that the Victorians were so interested in Old Norse, because I was just walking in Reykjavik and looking at the books in a bookshop and I actually have this book with me because I wanted to show it to you. It's a book on William Morris, the designer that most of the people know, at least from his wallpapers, and then he was also a translator and he loved Old Norse literature and he went to Iceland twice and I bought this book and I was reading it and I was thinking, oh, but this is. His feelings about Iceland as a foreigner are quite similar to mine, because I'm not from Iceland, but then Iceland also while studying Lithuania. It has always been like a land of like, in a way a bit of a dream land which I wanted to go to and which I had a lot of preconceptions about, and it was the same for him. I'm not comparing myself to William Morris, by the way, but I was thinking that, okay, this is interesting because you're from somewhere else, but you're dreaming of this country and its literature. So I think for him because he also visits those saga places they are like.
Speaker 2For the Victorians they're maybe more historical too, because now when we read sagas we know that they're also literary constructs and some of the places exist, but we're not really sure whether those people live there. But for them there were more like historical steeds, um, um. So I would say that people going to the mountain in iceland to take pictures in front of um because they've seen it in the game of thrones, maybe it's the same, but we also know that game of thrones is not historical material. So maybe for the victorians it was more. Maybe we go other places to uh, like excavation sites or some archaeological places, to actually feel like we're in touch with our past, uh, but the saga places for the victorians were also more like exact historical places, like archaeological places where they expected to find the ruins of the house of snorri sturluson who died in the 13th century.
Speaker 2Yeah, and also I'm not really sure I can't talk for the icelanders, for the icelandic people, but um, I guess they also have a different connection with their past when they live on the land, actually, while the foreigners or the people from the outside, like me and like William Morris, like all the Victorians it's also a very romanticized picture. It can also be for, like, I can also have a lot of romanticized feelings or, especially living abroad, I can have a lot of romanticized feelings about my own country, but also having those feelings about another country. Maybe it's a different thing.
Speaker 1Yeah nice, I think. Before I move to the last part of the episode, I would like to ask about the old Norse, actually a little bit. So we know that, for example, jrr Tolkien wrote a lot of drawings and Hobbit and other work. It's quite big. So who knows, who knows? And he invented his languages for the books as well, and one of the languages is based, heavily based on or influenced by finnish language. Yeah, so, of course, not like old norse, but like it's again nordic region at least. So he was a professor of old norse and English. So what do you think that is so appealing about Nordic languages, and maybe especially Old Norse Like? Is it the structure or is it like the grammatics? Is it the way how the letters looks like, or is it like the way how it is pronounced? Because of course, it could have some rhythmicity, it could remind some type of singing even. What's your thoughts about that?
Old Norse Literature and Academia
Speaker 2Yeah, I really enjoy the sound of Fiddish, even though I can't understand a word. I would say with Old Norse. My guess at that would be that it's actually the literature that brings people to the language itself, because it is in the same Scandinavian languages family with Danish, swedish, norwegian, icelandic, faroese I hope I'm not missing any, because Greenlandic is a different case and Finnish is a different case, but maybe that language represents the literature more than anything else and the literature that's very wide and interesting and quite spectacular actually. And we didn't really get to talk about the different genres of the sagas but one of my most favorite genres, which I unfortunately haven't read that much of, is exactly the heroic sagas, because it's a very big genre for Aldarsöhr. I hope I'm pronouncing it right, because my Icelandic has become a bit rusty.
Speaker 2But there is one saga that I once read because it's called Viktor's Saga and my dad is called Viktoros. So I was thinking, ok, this is a saga about Viktor and I have to read it. It's quite a late saga, from the 15th century. So I'm telling you about this just to illustrate how much weird stuff the icelanders have written um, uh, in the middle ages or the late middle ages. Uh, it's about uh, a um, uh french.
Speaker 2If I'm not mistaken, king victor and his companion, blavus is I don't remember from where, but he has a flying carpet and there are dragons in the saga and there's also very weird uh, like men turning into women, or like Blavus taking the shape of a French princess, uh, to uh do some things. Yeah, I can't really retell it, but you have to look it up on wikipedia. It's just spectacular. So, uh, icelandic literature is so broad and there's so much interesting and there's like law and there's those fantastic, um and very, very weird narratives, and so I think maybe the fascination with the language comes with the interest in that literature too.
Speaker 1Cool. So you mentioned you had the teaching duties.
Speaker 2Yeah, uh, how did you enjoy the teaching and were there any like drawbacks or like, uh, not only positives, of course, but like that's something that you might not enjoy that yeah, yeah, it's very nice to talk about the practical things with the phd, because also some practical things not only those like dreamy, some practical things, not only those like dreamy victorian old nurse, uh, yeah things, um, I would say that the students at gender studies are the best students ever.
Speaker 2They're very engaged. Yeah, what I can just say a few words about what I teach because I've been teaching it's my fourth semester now and I've been teaching introductory courses in gender studies and we cover a lot of different material. We cover both like historical texts from the 19th century but also completely contemporary research about gender from sociological and medical perspectives, but mostly humanities, literature, feminist theory, queer theory, and most of the students that come to me and I only teach seminars. I've done one lecture which was completely nerve wracking but I also loved it. It was very scary but it went well and I talked about the material that I know like 19th century. But the students are very engaged and they either choose the program, bachelor's program in gender studies, and then those courses are compulsory, or they choose the subjects themselves, just subject by subject, because they're interested in that. So we have very good discussions, seminars, because it's something that, uh, I've also taken those courses myself because I did two quite random years in gender studies during the pandemic because I didn't know what to do with my life, but it was, those were one of my best years at the university and, um, um, yeah, I like the discussions but I also like rereading those texts myself because I like the material.
Speaker 2So teaching has, for the most part, been very, a very positive experience because I've I have felt that I teach things that I'm interested in myself and the students have also been very engaged and very sweet. Of course, I've struggled a little bit with my own self-image and, like the first semesters were very scary because it I've always felt that I didn't know enough and that the students could see right through me and so on and so forth, but now I've become a bit more comfortable. Um, and the drawbacks are maybe it's a very hard balance between research and teaching. So I would say that I haven't really done as much research as I would like to and I can also compare myself to other humanities students who have a bit different system, because in the humanities faculty they have three years of only research and then, if they finish on time, then they get one year where they can teach, whereas I have four years with teaching included. So I have to balance it out all the time.
Speaker 2But in a way I also get to experience how academia is for people who both research and teach, Because I have to find that balance myself. And, of course, the Center of Gender Studies tried to kind of take care of us, but it's not always easy because it's also a very small center. So I ended up teaching a lot last semester, teaching two courses and basically not doing any research and getting almost burnt out. I also learned, like, the hard lesson of saying no, which I guess all academics, especially young academics, phd students and postdocs, have to learn at some points.
Speaker 1Yeah, I agree, it's not the easiest thing no to learn no, takes time. Yeah, you have to say no yeah, but I will not say no to. To the last question are a few couple of questions. Yeah, so what would you like to do after your PhD do? You have any, anything in your mind. Would you like to continue in academia as a postdoc or not? Or yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 2I think the PhD um study program in general, this whole process of writing a phd, will show whether I would survive academia, because I know that I really like reading and getting paid for that is a very big privilege. And also researching something that you really like and getting paid for that is a very big privilege. But I'm not really sure if it's that good for me as a person. But in a way I can't really imagine myself in a job where I don't decide my own, where I don't really have any say about how I use my time, because right now I have a lot of flexibility and a lot of freedom and I'm my own boss in a way, even though I have to turn papers into my supervisors and so on and so forth. And I have to finish my PhD because university, because I have a contract with the university, but I'm still really enjoying the independence of it and also thinking and writing, even though writing can be very excruciatingly difficult. But um for all phd students now and master students and bachelor students know how difficult it can be. Um also mentally, not really like the writing itself, but um, so I would say that I will.
Speaker 2I will say that the time will show, but if not academia? Um, and one more thing is that I've I've found out that I like teaching. So it's a good thing to know, because if I end up applying for academic jobs, then I know that teaching won't be something that I would hate or something that would just be in the way of doing research. What else could I do after a PhD? That's also the question, because what do you do?
Speaker 1with a humanities degree.
Speaker 2Yeah, because on the one hand it's quite difficult to find postdocs in the humanities, but it's also difficult with other kinds of jobs. But if I would try something else, I think it would be something to do with literature, literary festivals or literary houses. Yeah, because during those years of studying I've also found out that it's. Yeah, as I said, that's something that gives me joy and I'm not really scared of the thought that something that I like could turn into a job. But I can also see the danger like not really enjoying the thing anymore because you work with it.
Speaker 1uh yeah, I see. Okay, so should we. Should we look back, uh, in the viking? Age more frequently and look at the norse, old norse literature and take uh or draw inspiration from there. What do you think?
Speaker 2yeah, I would say that, yes, absolutely, and all kinds of old things, because, um and I'm saying old like with a smile on my face because I know that it doesn't mean anything, especially for people working, like with the medieval ages what is old? Um? But uh, what I found. I remember very clearly, maybe the first year of my bachelor's or the second year of my bachelor's, when we had old norse and I was sitting in the reading room and trying to read um vertusbau, which is an edict poem about the creation and the demise of the world, uh, which maybe is the best known from all the edict poems.
Speaker 2Uh, I was, I I had like an old horse text in front of me, I was trying to decipher everything and I just remember this overwhelming feeling of connection with people from, I don't know, like the ninth or the tenth century, because they were struggling with the same things that we're struggling with now, like all those existential thoughts where do we come from? Where do we go? What is death? What is, uh, community? Um. So I think reading historical texts or texts that do not come from our time can bring us a lot of insight also into, like, what is human, what is humanity and who are we and what can we learn from the old times? Because there are still so many of the same things that we think about, and I think this connection with the people from many, many centuries and many, many thousands of years ago, um, is not only interesting, but it also does something with us. It's kind of then you become, you feel like, more, more a part of the world, um as it is nice.
Speaker 1So I have a last question, um, what would you say to eager students that would like to follow your path?
Speaker 2like you know, doing the phd in humanities or like in literature.
Speaker 1Yeah, gender studies it's not definitely the easiest. Uh, you know choice, yeah, so what would be your favorites?
Speaker 2for them. Yeah, I would say that, um, uh, yeah, what would I say? I would say that gender studies should be compulsory for everyone.
Speaker 2So if you feel like you're interested in that, just go and study that. Um. But um, yeah, I would say that, yeah, don't be afraid of just going for a random thing. Uh, if you think that it sounds interesting and if you like it just a little bit, I mean, you don't have to uh, burn with like eternal love or something to go and study it, because you can discover new things. And I wouldn't say that all norse is my passion, it I will. I wouldn't say it ever has been. It's just something that I find interesting to read about and that also brings me to other things, like gender studies, for example.
Speaker 2So go for whatever you feel is interesting and even though it seems a bit random, um, it's usually just the intuition taking you somewhere, um, and it can sound a bit like supernatural, but, um, I believe in that quite a lot and, like, there is a thing like scholarly intuition and you nod because all subjects have it. Um, so in a way, yeah, so my tip is to not be afraid to choose something that doesn't really make sense in your career path and in your study path. And also, the subjects that have brought me the most joy during my bachelor's and my master's and my in-between years have been subjects that were outside my study program. So, if there's a possibility to take some subjects that are new or different, if you like art, take an art subject. If you like sports, take a subject on sports or film or whatever and they bring a lot of joy and you can always connect uh like. Interdisciplinarity is a trendy word, but you can always connect uh different things um, in your yeah, do you need more tips?
Speaker 1No, I think it's perfect. Thank you for those words and I'm very thankful that you was our guest today.
Speaker 2Thank you. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1Thank you, and I wish you only all the best in the future.
Speaker 2Thank you, you too, we'll see you next time.