Welcome to the Virtual Antics podcast , where we help entrepreneurs streamline their business to six figures and beyond . These short , sweet and info packed episodes will inspire , educate and leave you feeling motivated to take one more step forward in your business . So put down your never-ending to-do list , because in this podcast we are interviewing the best of the best in the entrepreneurial world as they spill their secrets to success . This podcast is sponsored by Nandora , the all-in-one software for entrepreneurs to grow their business , with unlimited landing pages , automations , emails and text campaigns , and so much more . I'm your host , natalie Guzman . Now let's get into it . Welcome back to the Virtual Antics podcast . I'm your host , natalie Guzman , and today I am so excited I have Caleb on the call . He is a 25-year-old entrepreneur with a bachelor and master's degree . He is a marketing consultant here to talk to us about marketing strategy . Welcome , caleb . How are you doing today ?
Speaker 2Thanks , natalie , appreciate you having me on . This is very exciting for me .
Speaker 1I'm so excited to have you . So you're 25 years old , bachelor's and master's degree , which is insane . Definitely make me feel a little bit like an underachiever , but so how did you accomplish so much at 25 years old and how did you get into marketing ?
Speaker 2So I was a nerd , so that's what helps . Just kidding , no , so I was actually lucky enough to be homeschooled , so I was able to do some concurrent classes when I was in high school and my mom really like pushed me to actually achieve and things like that . So thankfully to her , I was able to graduate and everything . So got into school and realized that there's so much behind marketing I mean , I'm sure you see this on a daily basis but the consumer behavior element of this , the insights that you can get from the customer , not just the we put a Facebook ad out there or you see a TV commercial like a Ford , you see a Ford F-150 commercial and you're like man , how did they build that scene ? And like what did they do and why are they doing it ?
Speaker 2So I've really found this big interest behind like , the insights , behavior of like why do people advertise the way that they do ? And like what are they building the message around ? So that's what really got me into it . And then here I am a couple of years later and still doing it on a daily basis . So I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing , but here we are .
Speaker 1That's awesome . Yeah , I am a data analytics girl . I love looking at data and comparing it . You know , that's one of the reasons . In the beginning , I think my episodes for this podcast were like 45 minutes long and I realized right at the 20 minute mark everyone dropped off and I was like , okay , I got to make them 20 minutes I guess and it worked .
Speaker 1So I love how we can learn from data and , kind of you know , tailor our business towards what the data is telling us . And people that aren't looking at data and you feel like they're definitely like missing a huge opportunity .
Speaker 2Oh , absolutely . I mean , there's so like there's the common analogy and I think it gets overused now . But you know , like everyone talked about how , like data is more valuable than oil , and you know all this and I think it's really important that we identify , like , obviously there's a lot of data that you can read and sometimes it can mislead you . I mean , you know , you can see it and it's like maybe you're , maybe you know you , looked at that podcast and it's like it worked out for you , it worked out well , but maybe , like you didn't have the right audience members where , like they just weren't the right target . So after 20 minutes they were like , all right , we're just like listening for you , but now we're not . So then sometimes people like read that and like we can never do another 45 minute episode ever again because no one will listen , and then maybe , like maybe your audience shifts back to that . So obviously I think that is really important , but I think then it's like how do you shape data to like actually inform your decision making ?
Speaker 1Ooh , that is really interesting point , cause when I looked at that I was like like data was my main focus , right , so I went very analytical with my decision . But you're saying come at from more of like a consumer behavior position .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean , I saw , I think there's like an element of like analytics that like , obviously , like you see your drop off rate at 20 minutes , like okay , there is a key point here that , like after between 20 to 45 minutes , like no one's really listening . But then look at it from like a holistic view of like what could you add for the next 15 minutes ? Like to like continue to extend your podcast , but maybe that's not like your focus as well . So that's where , like from a holistic standpoint , is like , what do your customers want ? Maybe it's the content , maybe it's how you message things . So it's always fascinating cause , obviously , data can always tell a story and , again , it's up to your interpretation on how you actually want to use that data .
Speaker 1Ooh , very good point . So if we're looking at data and then this is gonna be the podcast it gives me any type of data , but how do we know what's the right decision or what decisions should we make ? Should we be retesting often , like when we look at data , how do we make a decision ? It's basically what I'm asking .
Speaker 2So yeah , there's like in my mind there's two forms of thinking . So one , you have like this form of thinking where you know you kind of look at the data and I think the first step of that is like making sure that you have enough data . You know , like , if let's say , let's continue on your podcast example , if we're looking at like five listeners and you're like we have five listeners I know you have more than that , but we have five listeners , that's , you know they drop off at 20 minutes Well then , if you make that decision and cut it short based on that , well , what about a hundred listeners ? That maybe they're different . So there's always that piece of like having enough data . But then , on the other side , like when you have enough data , looking at it and saying like , okay , my drop off rates for the podcast are 20 minutes , is there , you know , like kind of looking at it from holistic view , of like is there a certain topic ? Or do I like start to like go into this like rant at 20 minutes , where it's kind of like people just kind of lose interest or like is there any other correlation outside of like people just don't want to listen that they drop off ?
Speaker 2So there's that frame of thinking of like what can I look from a holistic standpoint of like , from the data , like all of the factors ? Do I sneeze at 20 minutes that throws people off ? Do I , you know ? Do I talk about , do I do a sponsorship in 20 minutes , you know ? And so you can see , like maybe people don't want sponsorship . So there's one way of thinking about it . But then the other way of thinking about it is like continuously monitoring that . So you make the decision , you kind of go with it , and then what are you seeing ? Like are you seeing people make it to the entire episode ? Now , like can you extend it by two minutes and see if , like people continue to listen and like retrain them to think 45 minute episodes . So obviously there's two frames of thinking . You can combine and marry both , but there's that frame of like you make the decision , you kind of live with it or hey , let's make the decision , then let's continually like monitor it and move from there .
Speaker 1Yeah , and you know , something you said earlier that was like bells in my head is sample size right ? So that's when you're talking about the five people , but maybe you should be testing 100 people , and a lot of times what I see with entrepreneurs is we're not testing a large enough sample size . Like they'll run a $5 ad and be like I have all the data I need now to make a great ad , and I'm like no , you need a really good sample size . That it needs , and your sample size isn't just about the number of people , it's also about how long you're doing it for two , and so that's one of the things I love about data analytics is that you can really you know , once you understand sample size , you're able to monitor and make decisions based off of that . What other common mistakes do you see entrepreneurs making when it comes to marketing ?
Speaker 2So I perfect example that ad spend analogy . I think marketing is so accessible now that anyone can do it and so not not like digging on anyone that does $5 ads , like not at all . But we , there's just like this common misconception that like the accessibility of how easy and cheap it is to run ads . You're like I could run , you know , like we talked to business owners , like I've a little had a conversation where they've looked at hiring services .
We've come in and they're like we do ads a lot and I'm like , okay , let's talk about that . Like what are you looking at ? Like you know , like conversion rates , like things like that , and like well , really not converting a lot , and I think we have some issues . And I was like , okay , great , like let's dive into that . You know , how much are you spending ? How many ads are you running ? What impressions ? Like can you give me all your data ? Like click the rates , cost per click ? Like well , we have a pretty low cost per click . And I was like , okay , great , like 50 cents . And then like , yeah , we're like running , like you know , 10 ads a month and we're like five bucks an ad and like we're not getting any leads though , like what's wrong with our ads . And this is like a real estate agent , where they are getting , you know , their commission could be like anywhere from three to $10,000 on a day . So if you think about that , like these agents are being conditioned to , where it's like get leads for $5 . And while that's great as a business owner , if , like , if I was able to tell you like you could get a lead for $5 and close them and make $3,000 , like anyone would do that and it's going to get like super oversatrated at any point . So , as you can see , like you obviously have to be smart with your finances . You have to be smart with your marketing dollars and your budget . You don't know waste , but like what could you do with $100 instead of five ? That like you could test two different ads over a period of a week and just see like what happens . You know , do people react ? You do lead forms , like things like that .
Speaker 2So I see this point of like marketing is so accessible for business owners that it's a good and bad thing where they almost feel like their marketing geniuses are ready and maybe some of them are but like they're not the experts , they're the . They're the good business owners . They know how to run a product and how to do their finances , things like that . But when it comes to marketing , like there's so many pieces .
Speaker 2So we always see like this fact of sometimes people get ahead of themselves and say , like well , we've done all the testing , like you said , we have a sample size . Like it's just nothing works on the marketing side , so we need to give up . And it's like , well , you've spent $50 total . Like what are you actually getting out of $50 that could lead to like a good lead ? So I think that's one thing is like having enough of a sample size , having enough of a budget and like really being able to test on the on the marketing side . Because , as you know , like there's no perfect ad that you launch and then that day you make a million dollars , like you can launch an ad and it'd be successful , but like there's really no like key to success it's always optimizing . So that's definitely one mistake . I don't do you see that on your side at all .
Speaker 1Yeah , I definitely see that . You know , especially I started out as a virtual assistant agency and I saw that all the time , especially they were trying to get other VAs to run ads and I'm like they're not always the experts either , unless they've like taking courses and you really dedicated A lot of times . I see like Facebook changes so much , especially , and now we have like tic tac ads are getting really popular , even Hulu ads , and I'm like you have to really be up on the trends and what's changing and how they're , you know , changing everything . And if you're not , if you do like ads , maybe like once or twice a year , it's like you're not in it and you're not seeing changes and you're not seeing the changes in the data and how to reflect that . So I definitely , I definitely see your point there .
Speaker 1And then , um , another thing that I was thinking of was , um , when it comes to marketing , there's so many different strategies . Right , I just named three different ad ways that you can do it . Podcasting is a way that you can market your business for lead generation . There's so many different ways and different things you can do . How many should a business owner have and focus on ?
Speaker 2Oh , that's a tough one . I think it really depends on , like , what resources you have from like you know , like a content standpoint . So we're talking about channels and we're talking about what business owners can be on things like that . Like , are you have enough time where you can realistically build you know five , um , you know five reels a day for this , or can you do like ? So I think it like really boils down to like do you have the time and resources to be able to focus on those things and do them ? Well , and that's what we always say is like you know , now it's like it used to be like five years ago , like quantity over quality . So it's like Gary , the Gary V model of like , hey , get content out there , keep moving things like that .
Speaker 2And now it's like your reach is so low on most organic social posts that , like , how can you build really great content ? And like , where are your people at ? You know , seems like Facebook organic reaches pretty low . But again , sometimes people use that as like a validity point for your business of you know , are you active ? Like for me . I go to a business's Facebook page and they haven't made a post in two years . I'm like , are they still around , like are they open ? And it's kind of a piece where it like kind of doesn't matter , but it kind of does . But then again , like you have TikTok , but then the big question is like , do you have the resources to do these channels ? Well , like , how many channels can you do ? Where are your customers ? And then , like , what are you getting out of it at the same time . So you know , like we've talked about this , like TikTok , it's a great platform , but at the end of the day , like , if you go viral , do you have like the systems and processes on your back end to obviously serve those customers ? Well , if it leads into business . But then at the same time , like are you going to continue doing TikTok for a year and hope that it generates business ? So again , it's kind of crazy because you know these like you never know what's going to work . And I think again it leads back to like that testing what resources you have .
Speaker 2But it's perfect example . I'm terrible at TikTok . Like you could ask anyone on my team , like they like I tried TikTok . I'm like try to do it more . And what's hilarious is like I've maybe done , let's say , 15 TikTok , maybe a little bit more than that and I got a call from someone that I know from five years ago that they call me and they're like hey , we don't really get on TikTok . My daughter sends me TikToks occasionally . They're a business owner , we served your house like five years ago . For the service , we need a website . We need some marketing help . Can you help us ? And he was like you keep like your videos , keep popping up on TikTok and it's super cool and it's like not even that I'm doing that consistent of content , but like somehow , some way , it's popping up . So I think it's like again , it boils down to like how much infrastructure do you have built on , like a resource perspective and things like that .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I like to point out you know you need social media to really bring in leads . Of course , that is one of the great ways to show you're an expert and bring in leads . I built a six figure business without ever posting on social media before I actually got on social media .
Speaker 1And so there are so many different ways . I know we have two full time people that focus on marketing and they focus on two different ways to bring in leads at those times and then they change or they'll do a new stream once they get one pretty much automated and down . So that's kind of what we found to be like our sweet spot . But we had to look at the data and test it Like . We had to like look at are we , were we able to like completely do these ways of lead generation within those 40 hours and was it easily manageable ? There was a lot of things that we looked like , looked at at the data of how well our team ran to like really decide on those two streams . So , plus some more people you have working on marketing , especially the higher outsourced marketing team , the better . They always say . You know , it's just . I think I did marketing for so long and when I brought in my team it won .
Speaker 1It was such a breath of fresh air that I didn't have to deal with that , but then , too , was like I hired people better than me , so they just made their own processes and it was super cool . What are some other things that we should keep in mind when it comes to marketing ?
Speaker 2So I definitely think there's a piece .
Speaker 2So , you know , one of the things that we always advise people , that we talk to our clients , like someone I talk to on a daily basis , like one of the things that we look at is like , so obviously , combining , like this episode , like data , you know , strategy marketing , like what is the keys of this ? And it all leads down to consumer behavior . And like how are you retaining your customers better ? Like , at the end of the day , like we know , it's cheaper to retain a customer than acquire a new customer , things like that . So one of the things that we always recommend is like , you know , I heard this story from Gary Vee . Obviously I'm not I'm like a huge fan , but I'm also not a huge fan . It's kind of weird , but like , so he tells a story about how a restaurant , you know he talks about customer behavior , customer retention , and so he gives us example of like how can you , you know , provide a better experience to your rust , you know , to restaurant , and so he gives us example of a restaurant . Someone comes in the door and it's their first time . They mentioned to the , you know , the wait staff . Hey , this is our first time at the restaurant . We're very excited to try it . Like those types of things Mid-level restaurant , nothing's too fancy , but it's not you know Wendy's at the same time .
Speaker 2So it's like owned by a business owner . So he talks about , like have your team identify that person is new . So when they come around , like when you set them down , give them a red napkin . So like they have a red napkin at their table . Well , their wait staff knows that , like the red napkin is a first user . So what happens is the chef comes out after the meal and says , hey , like that's a cue . Like hey , how was your meal ? What did you think ? Like , was it food ? Okay , was it fine ? Now that consumer has like this perfect experience where it's like the chef came out , he asked us how our meal was , like wow , we were really attended to . Well , then what happens is , as they're leaving , you're like hey , next time you come in , get a free you know birthday cake on us , or free piece of pie , things like that . So then it's like they come back and then that piece of pie is like the next piece of the puzzle , like now , that lets you know , like that's their second visit .
Speaker 2So what this does is like provides an experience that you can serve your customers to the best of your ability while providing like it to be systematized . So I always encourage people that we talk to is like how can you find like a red napkin I don't know if that's the exact theory but like how can you build a better system and process around serving your customers better ? So that's always something that we try to leave with people is like at the end of the day , you're serving your customer . They're the ones buying . So what can we do to provide a better experience ?
Speaker 2Because , as we know , in the marketing world there are thousands of providers that do exactly what we do , maybe a little bit different , maybe the same , but how do we stand out and how do we make a better experience ? So I think that like leads to marketing of like everything you do channel wise , everything you do advertising wise . Like you're bringing these people in , but how are you retaining them ? So that's always what I like to kind of like focus on is like how do you build a better customer retention system ?
Speaker 1That is awesome . It's definitely something , you know , that a lot of people look over , because we're always so focused on lead generation . But , you know , keeping client retention and then referrals are so , so , so important and definitely there are ways that we can market to them as well .
So where can we find more about you and your services ?
Speaker 2So we have a website that you can do a free consultation . It's goclubcreativecom . It's our name club creative . I always love connecting with people on LinkedIn , Caleb Broach , R-O-C-H-E . So someone wants to talk ? Obviously , we do like no obligation free consultations if they want to shoot me a DM , things like that . So whatever I can do to help people , I'm always here for .
Speaker 1Awesome . I'll make sure I put that in the show notes as well , but thank you so much to Caleb for coming on the show and we'll talk to you guys next time on the virtual , and it's not gas .