Welcome to the Virtual Antics podcast, where we help entrepreneurs streamline their business to six figures and beyond. These short, sweet and info packed episodes will inspire, educate and leave you feeling motivated to take one more step forward in your business. So put down your never-ending to-do list, because in this podcast, we are interviewing the best of the best in the entrepreneurial world as they spill their secrets to success. This podcast is sponsored by Nandora, the all-in-one software for entrepreneurs to grow their business, with unlimited landing pages, automations, emails and text campaigns, and so much more. I'm your host, natalie Guzman. Now let's get into it.
Speaker 1Hey guys, welcome back to Virtual Antics podcast. As always, I'm your host, natalie Guzman. I am so excited because I have a dynamite podcaster with me today. She is Lindsay McMahon. She is the host of All Ears English. Her podcast is downloaded four million times per month globally and then ranked the best of Apple podcast categories in 2018 and 2019, as well as the number one in US education language courses. Lindsay and her podcast has been featured in podcast magazine, language magazine and Forbes. Welcome Lindsay, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2Thank you, natalie, I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1Thanks for having me on your show so excited to have you Absolutely love your podcast especially. I love languages. I'm married to someone. I speak a different language than me, so I think it's absolutely amazing what you're doing. It's a little bit more about your podcast and your business.
Speaker 2Happy to, happy to. So we launched our podcast kind of in the early, early days of podcasting in 2013. And at the time I launched the show with my co-host at that time, who was also from Boston. We were together in person podcasting. We had both traveled the world quite a bit and taught English as a second language in Japan. I had taught in South America, new York City, and I said, hey, I heard about this podcasting thing. I was listening to a couple of personal development shows and I said what about a podcast for English learners, for adults? So we launched it and then a business grew around.
Speaker 2It Just kind of caught on. From the start it was we had a nice cover art. We showed our faces on the show, which a lot of ESL teachers were kind of trying to stay more professional at the time, whereas we wanted to be fun. You know, we knew what we were doing, but we wanted to have fun on this show, right, and so it stood out and it's always been a high ranking show, a successful show. And then, over the years, we launched another show around a niche within ESL which is IELTS, a test prep show. And then we launched a third show last October business English, so a business grew around it. Eventually, we built two apps, did some live events in Japan, boston and New York City, and now we sell online courses. We do sponsorships with brands, we do licensing, and so our business model has built, but it's all still with the podcast in the center, because that's where we're able to spread our message. Our message is connection, not perfection, our vision, our values, and it is also obviously a lead generator at the top of our funnel.
Speaker 1So that is amazing and so cool. We are a what is it called Dual language household, so English and Spanish, and I still do not know Spanish. I can get by, but I really learned that how like amazing languages are, and learned you know my husband's Puerto Rican, and then you have, we have a lot of friends that are Mexican and so even though they both speak Spanish, they a lot of the words are not the same and a lot of the slang is not the same. So how do you kind of address that when in your podcast and when you're trying to teach people English?
Speaker 2It's a great question. So we so our kind of angle on English, is American English. So we're very upfront with our audience. We say this is what we know. All of our co-hosts across all three shows are American native English speakers. So we teach American English. But we do a lot of guest interviews, especially on the bigger show, all Ears English. Just in the last month I've interviewed three of my I guess I would call them friends slash other ESL co-hosts, podcasters, who are British. I've interviewed people from Canada on the show, england, all other native English speaking countries and also international people on the show. So you end up with a mix of accents that we talk about slang, we compare cultures. We really get into it. It's really fun actually. That's awesome.
Speaker 1I was just thinking you know, I'm from Massachusetts, so Boston is almost a whole accent itself.
Speaker 2Oh my gosh, I love. I'm from New Hampshire, and so I grew up going to Mass all the time. I didn't know you're from there. That's very cool, okay.
Speaker 1I lived there till I was 20 and I lived towards two areas. I had divorced parents so I was in Boston area but I was also near kind of Connecticut in Western Mass All right, I used to go to Hampshire for summer camp, so that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2The Boston accent is so much fun. We've had two or three interviews with people from Boston and we have a blast with it. It's just, it's great. Oh, so much character.
Speaker 1Oh my gosh, it's so fun. I love talking and when I talk with my family I get a little bit of the accent back. I don't have that anymore. But it's so much fun and just I think that's what you just said character, right, that's one of the things I love about languages is that everyone has their own culture and character and like, oh, I just love listening to my in-law speak Spanish.
Speaker 2You know.
Speaker 1Sometimes I don't know what they're saying, because oh, it's just, it's just so amazing. I really really love languages and it's crazy how many different languages there are, right. So how do you tackle? You know you have a lot of your listeners are not just one language, they're all different languages trying to learn English correct, correct, correct, yeah.
Speaker 2So how do we handle that? Yeah, good question.
Speaker 1How do you do that?
Speaker 2Good question. So the level that we target is the global professional right. So they, in terms of, we consider it the intermediate to advanced level, right? So these students, these listeners, are already potentially doing business in English. They're good enough to be doing that in many cases, so they can understand. So it's full immersion, right? I mean my co-host, aubrey, she could run the podcast in French. Right, she speaks French fluently. But that's not how we do it. It's an immersion method and so it's all in English. You definitely run into challenges when it comes to selling courses and copywriting, right, conversion stuff, which we could talk about, if you want, around course sales. But we do our best to be as visual as we can in our promotions and as clear in our copywriting as we can, which is an ongoing challenge. But, yeah, for the learning, I think it's good. They need that at that level. They want to feel like they're sitting in a cafe and listening to a conversation between two native English speakers, and so that's what we give them. Oh, that's super cool.
Speaker 1I love that Because it's almost like do you kind of tell stories as well, because I feel like I would learn really well just by listening to a story.
Speaker 2Yeah you know, I just I'm collaborating in a few weeks with someone who specializes in her podcast is also an ESL podcast but what they do is they bring on, they kind of follow the moth. You know the moth the moth, where people go up on stage and share a story, that concept, yeah. So they follow that concept, so they have a storyteller. I'm going to be on her show sharing one life story that I have to tell and adding a lot of value, and that is her entire method. So all ESL podcasters, I guess, have a different, as all podcasters do have their own format.
Speaker 2There are a lot of directions you can take language learning in. For us it's a very fast paced, always two hosts, conversational 15 minute format, boom, boom, boom. It's fun role plays. We teach you something, there's a takeaway, and then we focus on our value, which is human connection, cause I think there's something more to learning a language than grammar and vocabulary. If that's why we're here, then it's not for me, right, it's for the human connection. So we bring that across for every episode.
Speaker 1And I feel like you definitely learn a language better when you're focusing on that connection, like I know for me, right? I kind of learned Spanish just by being in a room with my in-laws, who all spoke Spanish around me, and then I was able to get the pronunciation better than I ever could in Spanish class back in high school.
Speaker 1So one of the common questions I get is like people will start talking to me in Spanish because they'll hear me maybe say a very basic command to my children in Spanish. My accent is so on point because I was listening to them. They're like I speak Spanish, but I mean you turned this into yeah, gradually went into a business, which is amazing. I love those type of businesses and so tell us about your course and like kind of what it's about and how you guys help people.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean we have multiple courses. We have kind of a suite of courses at this point, right. So we've been in business for 10 years and direct sales to listeners, to individuals, is one way that we drive revenue for sure. So we have an IELTS course, which is a test. I don't know if you've heard of the IELTS exam International English Language Testing System. It's a test which, if you want to immigrate from, let's say, for example, japan to the UK to get that visa, you need to take this test, or to get the job which gets you the visa. There's a test involved, and so we prep them for that.
Speaker 2My employee, jessica, one of the co-hosts on IELTS Energy, was an examiner in that test for like 15 years and so she knows it extremely well, and so we built a course around that. And then we built a business English course which is done really well for our audience. We built another course, which was actually a road trip I took in 2016 around the country. I took my camera and interviewed people everywhere. It was incredible, an adventure. It's an adventure course.
Speaker 1So, yeah, we've done all kinds of things here that is so cool and I love that, because I was on a podcast recently and they talked about the two different types of businesses. You're either doing something you love and it gradually turns into a business, which is kind of sounds like what you guys said, or you get like me, I was kind of thrust into a position where I had to make money from home and so I was kind of thrust into a situation.
Speaker 1So I love hearing stories about that type of scenario and how you've kind of gradually built this and it kind of shows you that you know a lot of times, entrepreneurs, we quit things within one to two years. Right, we see it all the time with fellow entrepreneurs and if you just keep going, you know through the hard times, let it gradually grow. Don't worry about doing everything right now and right there, and it can. I feel like that's how you guys have been really sustainable. Would you agree?
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really important point, natalie, I think an additional piece of that keeping going oh, having both feet in fully in right For me there wasn't really a lot of other options. I'm not going to go get a corporate job, right. I had another business at the time. It was my another consulting company. I had like really a one to one training, language training company, but that was phasing out and this was real really where my heart was.
Speaker 2But I think an important piece is consistency. So, being all in and if you tell your audience just within podcasting, we actually publish four days a week on all ears English, which I know sounds insane, but we have set up a system where we can do it. It makes sense, it works. But we've never missed a single four day of the week. We've never missed a single. There's never been a Monday that all ears English has not published since we launched in 2013. That's 10 years. Or a Tuesday, or a Wednesday, or a Thursday. I mean, that is that's kind of the kind of consistency that you need in a way. Yeah, this is what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I think utilizing a team you know, or even a partner, is really, really beneficial. Like you have a co-host, do you have a team as well? That kind of helps you on the back end things.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, I wouldn't. I just wouldn't have made it this far without a team, right, first of all, I would have been bored just talking to myself on the podcast, and so having that co-host is amazing. It's chemistry, it's connection, it's authenticity. And then, on the support side, we have a nice team of VA's, virtual assistants, we have contractors that have helped us build our apps and help us with our transcripts, and you know, we just had our team sync last week, and just updating everyone on what's happening in the business and feeling that we're doing this together is a game changer for me. I mean, some people are able to do it on their own, as a solo preneuer, which is great. That's another business model, but I don't think I could have done it. Yeah, yeah me either.
Speaker 1I think part of like sustainability, too, is like relying on other people. So we do episodes twice a week, monday and Friday, and all I do is I just show up, look pretty and I get to talk with the awesome guests. Right, I hand that off to my team and then they basically do everything else from there.
Speaker 2So I hand off.
Speaker 1Oh my gosh, it's such a nice feeling and to have like a team. You know that we all work so well together and communicate well with one another. It's just such a relief and there's such a huge help. I actually had an assistant find a dentist for me. I don't know if you know, but Florida finding a dentist for kids is almost impossible.
Speaker 1I didn't know that, oh it is so hard to find a pediatric dentist in Florida, especially when that takes your insurance. They're very rare and so we do have to drive an hour away. But they found one for me and so I was able to, like post all over social media how amazing she is and she felt so loved and I just wanted her to know. Like I didn't have to do that, I didn't have to call these places and look at the reviews, look at the pictures to see if they have like a playroom right, because a lot of times the fluoro happens. They say they take kids and they shop for the appointment and they're like no, we don't have equipment for your kids.
Speaker 2Oh, they're in the waiting room, right, right, right Right, so I'm like look for a waiting room that's geared towards kids and the pictures, and that's how you know it's a pediatric dentist Interesting, so that's very next level. I can really admire that getting a team to help you with personal tasks as well, which frees you up to focus on your work. Right, I'm not doing that yet I'm. I'm still kind of scrambling around calling my dentist doing my things, have not assigned personal tasks yet, but I just make sense, make sense.
Speaker 1Yeah, and you could. You know, even if you do overseas or a US space, it's really not that costly. I absolutely love her. She's absolutely amazing, and it was because we move, so I do this every. We move every two years, so I always get an assistant for that time when I move. There's not much year round work, but she does other things for us too. She's a multitasker, she's amazing.
Speaker 2So I mean the truth, like there, you know your team is, it's the engine behind the business, Right, I just had a conversation with with my virtual assistant last night and I said you know, I so appreciate it, because sometimes I forget that you and the other teammates, they're the engine behind the business running. Like, why do things not blow up? It's because you guys are you're, you're consistent, You're getting it done, and it lets me free up my mind to focus on other things. It's incredible.
Speaker 1Yeah, and it's. It's really cool because I get the focus on the things that really I'm passionate about or that I'm really great at, and I'm great at like problem solving and sometimes that can be really time.
Speaker 1You know, time tanker and it's just having a team that I can rely on and be like can you guys help me with this or that? Oh, it's amazing and they're the absolute best. I will always shut out or marketing mavens. They're awesome, so tell us more about so you talked about. You have your podcast. That's kind of your lead generation and we got your courses that would you consider that your main offer?
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean I think there are kind of four ways that all those English makes money, right. So we do courses, we do licensing and we're getting into the B2B space, meaning business to business. So working with companies, working with business platforms that would then have companies on the other side, like marketplaces, does that make sense? So we're selling our products, putting our products on these B2B marketplaces, and then companies are coming and buying it from the marketplace. Our apps are also monetized, so our apps just have a premium subscription option. So an Android, ios app and then yeah, I mean that's pretty so courses, licensing and then sponsorships for our podcast. So that's the other piece that we've really gone into in the last year and a half or so.
Speaker 1That's super cool. I always say I read this book like a really long time ago. It says millionaires always have a minimum of seven streams of income. You've kind of built that within your business, so so, so smart. I absolutely love that and it's like almost like a freedom in it too. Like, especially, you have the app, which I would assume is kind of past the income. You probably have to do some updates and such to it. Yeah, like we have a software and it's just been a game changer for our business.
Speaker 2It's huge. You know, I do a lot of mastermind groups with people in my space, other ESL course creators, and I see 100% focus on course building. I'm like, yes, courses are a great way to build a business, but when you have a course, a business that's 100% based on sales of a course scary to me. I'm always obsessing over diversifying, maybe too much, but it just feels like one's going to drop. You know, like podcast ad revenue is probably going to drop in 2024. I realize that. So we're going to ramp up course sales. Right, there's always levers that we can pull, but if there's one product, I don't know, maybe for a couple of years. But then if you want your business to run long term, start to diversify.
Speaker 1Yeah, 100%. And our needs are always changing. You know your consumers' needs are always changing. That's why I mean to say and so always evaluating that, looking at the data, it's super, super important. Well, I've loved having you on the show and I thank you so much for all your insight. Where can we find more about you?
Speaker 2Well, your listeners can check out my podcast. Since this is a podcast, we're in the podcasting world. Your listeners can go and open the search bar and just type in all ears English and you'll actually see three shows pop up, all three of our shows. Everything is yellow. That is our branding. You could hit follow on all ears English and check it out, see what our style is, and you could find me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to answer any questions or do any informal coaching or mentoring is something that I'm always happy to help out if people have questions.
Speaker 1Thank you so much, Lindsay. I really appreciate you coming on the show and we'll talk to you next time on the virtual index.