Welcome to the Virtual Antics Podcast , where we help entrepreneurs streamline their business to six figures and beyond . These short , sweet and info-packed episodes will inspire , educate and leave you feeling motivated to take one more step forward in your business . So put down your never-ending to-do list , because in this podcast , we are interviewing the best of the best in the entrepreneurial world as they spill their secrets to success . This podcast is sponsored by Nadora , the all-in-one software for entrepreneurs to grow their business , with unlimited landing pages , automations , emails and text campaigns , and so much more . I'm your host , natalie Guzman . Now let's get into it . Hey y'all , welcome to Virtual Antics , the podcast where we dive into the fascinating world of business automation , virtual assistants and entrepreneurial journeys . I'm your host , natalie Guzman . Today we have a very special guest , christopher Pellegrini . He is a snachu and a warming expert , author and podcast host who launched Honkaku Spirits to bring Japanese spirits to American customers . Join us as we explore his journey and insights into Japanese spirits . Welcome , hey , Christopher . How are you doing today ?
Christopher PellegriniGood , good morning . It's actually nighttime over here . I'm in Tokyo , japan , right now .
Natalie GuzmanOh , I was wondering that when I asked how your weekend was . I know sometimes days are all off with being in different countries .
Christopher PellegriniOh , it's actually morning here too , now I lied .
Natalie GuzmanIt's 123am on . Oh well , look at that Right , right at the cuffs of morning . I love it . So tell us a little bit about you , and how'd you end up in ? You said it was Tokyo .
Christopher PellegriniThat's right .
Natalie GuzmanHow'd you get there ?
Christopher PellegriniI followed a girl . It was many , many , many moons , but I was working in Korea . Boy meets girl . Girl has a deep appreciation and fascination for Japan , and so boy followed her there , and we've been here for 22 years now .
Natalie GuzmanOh , that is amazing . I love that . I love when we meet up with other people that kind of lead us to our passions and what we're doing . So how'd you get into Japanese spirit ?
Christopher PellegriniWell , I've been in the alcohol beverage alcohol world since I was a teenager , believe it or not . I was a closet home brewer until I wasn't anymore because my parents found out , nearly killed me . And then I became an apprentice brewer at a local microbrewery in Vermont , where I grew up and , just as crazy life dictates , I soon became the youngest commercial brewer in the United States . When our number one brewer is back and our number two brewer left the state to join the circus , I'm not making that up . And then I became a 17-year-old brewer who was too young to legally drink what he was making , but I was making beer as my job , and so fast forward .
Christopher PellegriniI end up in Japan . You know how I got here and I ran headlong into a bunch of drinks that most people have never really heard of even to this day Shochu S-H-O-C-H-U and its slightly older cousin , awamori A-W-A-M-O-R-I , and these are Japan's indigenous spirits . Awamori A-W-A-M-O-R-I , and these are Japan's indigenous spirits . They very quickly struck me as the craft beer of spirit and I was head over heels for them , and I fell down a very , very winding rabbit hole that I'm still tumbling down , and today I am an ambassador for the spirits classes . I've written a book about them . I have two businesses related to them that I manage simultaneously . They're both in different time zones . It's a lot of fun , and now this is 100% . What I do day in and day out is promote these drinks .
Natalie GuzmanThat's awesome . What would you say is the biggest difference between the Japanese spirits and the ones here in America ? Awesome .
Christopher PellegriniWhat would you say is like the biggest difference between the Japanese spirits and the ones here in America ? Well , these traditional spirits anyway , because of course , japan does have its own whiskey style , which would be much more similar to what folks in the States are used to . But these traditional spirits are nothing like anything we've seen before . They are single pot distilled , so they taste like what they're made from . They're very rarely cask aged . They're almost always aged in either clay pots or inert tanks like enamel line tanks , and so it's really hard to explain what they taste like .
Christopher PellegriniThe most popular style in Japan is sweet potato shochu , and it tastes like sweet potatoes , but there's five dozen varietals of sweet potatoes used to make it , so it tastes like the rainbow . Every one tastes different , and the second most popular by sales is barley shochu , but there's all different ways to make it , so it's this incredibly diverse , massive part of Japanese gustatory culture that is hiding in plain sight . There's actually more shochu and awamori consumed every year in Japan than sake , which everybody's heard of . But nobody's heard of shochu because and this is going to blow some minds right here there is , at least as recently as 2022 , there was a little bit more shochu made in Japan than tequila in Mexico . This is a massive industry and while 68% of 2022 production tequila agave spirits left Mexico , much of it going to the States , less than one-tenth of 1% of these indigenous spirits ever left Japan in the same year . So this is just Japan's best kept secret and I can explain it to you all day long , but you really just have to .
Natalie GuzmanOh , 100% . So where could someone like in America try this ?
Christopher PellegriniMajor cities it's getting a lot . You go into good cocktail bars , you'll almost always find at least one drink that has shochu as part of the build , and let's not confuse this with another spirit that sounds very similar Soju S-O-J-U from Korea . They should never be conflated . They are not the same thing . They shouldn't even be in the same sentence or paragraph . They're so different . They both are made in very different ways , serve very different purposes , and it's the Japanese shochu that is more frequently ending up in cocktails and usually good cocktail programs around the country . So if you're in a big city , if you're in Chicago , if you're in New York or Miami , or if you're in San Francisco , la , houston , you've got a good shot . Atlanta , just go to a good cocktail bar and ask about it and they probably have it . Then , if you're going to , if you go online , it's a lot easier to find . So if you want bottles shipped to you , that's absolutely an option .
Christopher PellegriniIt's a big world , though . There are 53 approved ingredients used to make this drink . There's so much diversity . Part of the challenge of getting into it is figuring out what your style is . Are you a rice shochu drinker , or are you a sweet potato shochu drinker or a chestnut shochu drinker . You got to figure that out first , then you got to figure out how you want to drink .
Natalie GuzmanI love that . Yeah , if you don't like it the first time you try it , just try a different variation of it . I love it . You know I've been . My husband is Puerto Rican . I like to say I'm 150% white and so I've been trying to cook Hispanic foods and so I made , like my own , sofrito , which is like a herb of mixes , and then I made , you know , like fried chicken , but Puerto Rican style , and it's just so different . You know , like they infuse the chicken in a pot with all the seasonings and everything and then they'll fry it or then they'll cook it .
Natalie GuzmanHowever , they're going to cook it and it's just so cool to see the different cooking processes , Because in America we don't like singe our meat and then put it onto a grill or then fry it or whatnot . We'll marinate it , but that's completely different , and so I love seeing the differences and processes of creating this . So what are the different ? Is it the liquor ? Is it brewed ? Differently , it is actually .
Christopher PellegriniYep , it's very , very different and , as somebody who used to make beer , when I first was able to wedge my way into a distillery over here , my mind was blown . I mean , I worked making , you know , cooking the grains that made the mash , then they went into the lauder ton and they went into the lauter tun , then they went into the kettle . There's a very important pronounced hot side to brewing beer and , of course , making whiskey , because whiskey is essentially distilled beer In Japan with these indigenous spirits . They don't use malted grains , it's not allowed . They use an indigenous and this is incredibly mold M-O-L-D that is called koji , k-o-j-i , and koji is the magic behind most fermentation in Japan . Now you think of soy sauce and miso and sake and mirin and all of these really savory aspects of Japanese food culture . Those are all made with this mold koji , and all shochu and awamori must also be made with this mold koji , and all shochu and awamori must also be made with this mold koji . Koji is amazing because it's very efficient . It breaks starches into sugars very , very cleanly and very , as I said , I'm going to use the word efficient again and also adds the U word umami , so you get this extra savory punch to everything that it's involved in .
Christopher PellegriniThere's no hot side to the process of making these drinks . I mean , you do use steam to steam the grains and some of the starch sources , but there's no boil , there's no water time , there's none of this stuff . So when I first walked into a distillery and I was like , how do you the starch conversion does that ? That doesn't happen . And and of course this was back in 2003 , when I spoke that much Japanese now , maybe not even that much , and it was I couldn't simply explain or understand the explanations I was being given about . You know , I was saying I'm confused , I don't see how this works . It is so entirely different as to be . Well , it's just the beauty of the world as it is . Everybody's got their own way of doing things .
Natalie GuzmanI know it's so cool and I absolutely love that , but I noticed that a lot of people they like to stay in their comfort zone , right , they don't like to really necessarily learn new things or new ways . So you , one of the things that you're trying to do is introduce Japanese .
Christopher PellegriniSo what do you think has been your biggest hurdle with that ? The biggest hurdle , in the beginning anyway , was my stubborn desire to stay true to the traditions of how these drinks are enjoyed in Japan , and that didn't compute in a lot of places . If you go to really mature markets where there's just a lot of innovation , a lot of turnover , everybody's trying to do the new thing , like New York , then you can find an audience for the traditional serve , but then you go to markets that are a few years behind . It takes a while for that innovation to sort of circulate their way and for them to iterate on that and do their own thing . When you get there , it's a stillborn conversation , honestly . You don't get anywhere with it . They're kind of like , well , why would you do that ?
Christopher PellegriniSo we , over a period of years , had to figure out . We knew this was going to be the case . You have to meet people where they are , and so it was a lot more focus not on the off premise , which is the trade term for liquor stores , and more of the on premise , where the gatekeepers are , and the gatekeepers are bartenders , and bartenders are the ones who decide what to use and what to feature and how to how to feature those , those drinks , those , um , the things that they put in their cocktails and how they represent them on the menu . And if you don't go through them , you have nothing . So that was one of the big challenges early on was getting over me , getting over myself as a category expert , feeling like I had to be very , very faithful to the traditions . But I , over time , realized it doesn't work that way .
Natalie GuzmanYeah , it's really hard for it to get people to change because a lot of people are scared of change , and so that's what I've noticed with a lot of businesses like yours that people they always come to this hurdle because they're trying to convince someone . This is really cool , like you should try it , and everyone's like that's different , you know and I feel like especially America .
Natalie GuzmanI feel like we're very big on , like we are great with creativity , but I feel like changing our ways of how we've done things , how our parents have done things . It's why so many traditions are still here today .
Christopher PellegriniNo kidding , yeah , truth , this is a little shochu kettle from Kagoshima Prefecture . In one way . Traditionally they would drink sweet potato shochus . They , kagoshima Prefecture . In one way . Traditionally they would drink sweet potato shochu . They'd put it in here , put this over a flame , heat it up and then pour it into little cups communally , which is adorable and fun and great
conversation . But you try and bring that aspect of culture to somewhere that's not ready for it and they'll let you know real quick . They'll be like yeah , I don't think that's going to work here . Yeah , well , all right , you're probably . You're not incorrect . I think it will someday in certain places , but it's not going to work straight out of the box .
Natalie GuzmanYeah , I feel like places that are more so . If it was like more themed to the traditional , you know , like Japanese culture , I feel like that would totally fit Like cause you're trying to immerse yourself into the culture . But then , but if you're going to like a bar or some you know someplace to get a drink and it's in America and you know our seating is different , our vibes are different , like everything is different , and then you bring something from a different country . I can see it not fitting , but , like you said , you go through the bartenders and the bartenders are kind of educators . I know that's how I learned a lot of the drinks that I like are from bartenders , because I'd be like I want something like this , but not too sweet , and then they would create this amazing thing .
Natalie GuzmanSo I love that you guys went through bartenders because they're the educators , and I think that's one of the cool things about businesses is , like when you're starting a business or you're even growing your business is to look for the people that are already in the market and utilize them . Because that was really smart . Like you were like bartenders , everyone giving out these drinks . It's if we don't get through them , it's not going anywhere , and so that was really , really smart . I absolutely love that .
Christopher PellegriniYeah , I mean I can't take any credit for that . That was just sort of naturally the way it was going to happen . So I guess the only thing I can take credit for is me not being too stubborn .
Natalie GuzmanYeah or not letting it stop you . You got a hurdle and you didn't just say , oh well , I give up , I'm just going to focus . You know , like I'm in Japan , I'm just going to focus on Japan . You know , you found a way for your hurdle , so I give you credit there , chris .
Christopher PellegriniThank you .
Natalie GuzmanAwesome . Well , where can we find more about you and your business ?
Christopher PellegriniSo the business is online at Honkaku Spirits H-O-N-K-A-K-U . Honkaku means authentic , genuine in Japanese , HonkakuSpiritscom , and you can actually order some of our products through the web shop there , depending on which state you're in . You know how America is about shipping things across state lines very territorial , and everybody wants their tax revenue and nobody seems to realize that , hey , if they're buying from us , they might then and we buy from them . That's still the same , isn't it Still the tax revenue ?
Natalie Guzmanis coming in . I'm formerly from Taxachusetts , as I like to call it , so we're beginning to get fireworks there .
Christopher PellegriniThat's a tough spirits market . Nobody wants to do business there . I hope you're listening , taxachusetts . It's nobody wants to do business there because of how onerous your rules are . Nobody cares , I'm sure . So anybody with any power probably does not care , because they're getting paid . So that's a good portal if you're in one of those states that can receive spiritship . And then we have a new website called Takamine Whiskey A-K-A-M-I-N-E , spelled just like the guitar brand . It's not a guitar brand , it's a whiskey brand Takamine Whiskey A-K-A-M-I-N-E , spelled just like the guitar brand . It's not a guitar brand , it's a whiskey brand TakamineWhiskey , with an E dot com . And that will lead you to places where you can buy our flagship whiskey as well , also made with koji . So it's a little different from an American style whiskey . There's no malt harmed in the production of Takamine whiskey . It's a cordified grain and it's beautiful . It has the best story and spirits maybe second . But those are a couple of places to find out more about the company .
Christopher PellegriniIf you want to track me down and harass me , then you would go to Christopher Pellegrini on Instagram . I also use a little known network these days called Spoutable S-P-O-U-T-I-B-L-E , if you're looking for something that doesn't have any harassment on it . So you wouldn't be able to harass me on that one . You would actually have to be civil , and I guess that's it . I'm on Facebook too , but not all the time . I do have a personal website called christopherpellegrinicom where I publish a blog If you aren't into like paper books , like this one that I published the Shochu Handbook that you can get on Amazon , just read my blog , where I go through the nitty gritty of the basic of Shochu and Awamori . How are they unique , how are they different from other things that people know ? How are they made ? So I guess that's me in a digital nutshell .
Natalie GuzmanAwesome . I'll make sure I put all those in the show as well , but thank you so much for coming on the show . It's been a pleasure and I love learning new things , especially about a different culture than mine , so that was awesome . Thank you so much for educating us .
Christopher PellegriniThank you , Natalie .
Natalie GuzmanAll right , and we'll talk to you guys next time on the Virtual Antics Podcast .