Welcome to the Virtual Antics Podcast, where we help entrepreneurs streamline their business to six figures and beyond. These short, sweet and info-packed episodes will inspire, educate and leave you feeling motivated to take one more step forward in your business. So put down your never-ending to-do list, because in this podcast, we are interviewing the best of the best in the entrepreneurial world as they spill their secrets to success. This podcast is sponsored by Nadora, the all-in-one software for entrepreneurs to grow their business, with unlimited landing pages, automations, emails and text campaigns, and so much more. I'm your host, natalie Guzman. Now let's get into it. Hey y'all, welcome to Virtual Antics, the podcast where we dive into the fascinating world of business automation, virtual assistants and entrepreneurial journeys. I'm your host, natalie Guzman. Today we have a very special guest, christopher Pellegrini. He is a snachu and a warming expert, author and podcast host who launched Honkaku Spirits to bring Japanese spirits to American customers. Join us as we explore his journey and insights into Japanese spirits. Welcome, hey, Christopher. How are you doing today?
Christopher PellegriniGood, good morning. It's actually nighttime over here. I'm in Tokyo, japan, right now.
Natalie GuzmanOh, I was wondering that when I asked how your weekend was. I know sometimes days are all off with being in different countries.
Christopher PellegriniOh, it's actually morning here too, now I lied.
Natalie GuzmanIt's 123am on. Oh well, look at that Right, right at the cuffs of morning. I love it. So tell us a little bit about you, and how'd you end up in? You said it was Tokyo.
Christopher PellegriniThat's right.
Natalie GuzmanHow'd you get there?
Christopher PellegriniI followed a girl. It was many, many, many moons, but I was working in Korea. Boy meets girl. Girl has a deep appreciation and fascination for Japan, and so boy followed her there, and we've been here for 22 years now.
Natalie GuzmanOh, that is amazing. I love that. I love when we meet up with other people that kind of lead us to our passions and what we're doing. So how'd you get into Japanese spirit?
Christopher PellegriniWell, I've been in the alcohol beverage alcohol world since I was a teenager, believe it or not. I was a closet home brewer until I wasn't anymore because my parents found out, nearly killed me. And then I became an apprentice brewer at a local microbrewery in Vermont, where I grew up and, just as crazy life dictates, I soon became the youngest commercial brewer in the United States. When our number one brewer is back and our number two brewer left the state to join the circus, I'm not making that up. And then I became a 17-year-old brewer who was too young to legally drink what he was making, but I was making beer as my job, and so fast forward.
Christopher PellegriniI end up in Japan. You know how I got here and I ran headlong into a bunch of drinks that most people have never really heard of even to this day Shochu S-H-O-C-H-U and its slightly older cousin, awamori A-W-A-M-O-R-I, and these are Japan's indigenous spirits. Awamori A-W-A-M-O-R-I, and these are Japan's indigenous spirits. They very quickly struck me as the craft beer of spirit and I was head over heels for them, and I fell down a very, very winding rabbit hole that I'm still tumbling down, and today I am an ambassador for the spirits classes. I've written a book about them. I have two businesses related to them that I manage simultaneously. They're both in different time zones. It's a lot of fun, and now this is 100%. What I do day in and day out is promote these drinks.
Natalie GuzmanThat's awesome. What would you say is the biggest difference between the Japanese spirits and the ones here in America? Awesome.
Christopher PellegriniWhat would you say is like the biggest difference between the Japanese spirits and the ones here in America? Well, these traditional spirits anyway, because of course, japan does have its own whiskey style, which would be much more similar to what folks in the States are used to. But these traditional spirits are nothing like anything we've seen before. They are single pot distilled, so they taste like what they're made from. They're very rarely cask aged. They're almost always aged in either clay pots or inert tanks like enamel line tanks, and so it's really hard to explain what they taste like.
Christopher PellegriniThe most popular style in Japan is sweet potato shochu, and it tastes like sweet potatoes, but there's five dozen varietals of sweet potatoes used to make it, so it tastes like the rainbow. Every one tastes different, and the second most popular by sales is barley shochu, but there's all different ways to make it, so it's this incredibly diverse, massive part of Japanese gustatory culture that is hiding in plain sight. There's actually more shochu and awamori consumed every year in Japan than sake, which everybody's heard of. But nobody's heard of shochu because and this is going to blow some minds right here there is, at least as recently as 2022, there was a little bit more shochu made in Japan than tequila in Mexico. This is a massive industry and while 68% of 2022 production tequila agave spirits left Mexico, much of it going to the States, less than one-tenth of 1% of these indigenous spirits ever left Japan in the same year. So this is just Japan's best kept secret and I can explain it to you all day long, but you really just have to.
Natalie GuzmanOh, 100%. So where could someone like in America try this?
Christopher PellegriniMajor cities it's getting a lot. You go into good cocktail bars, you'll almost always find at least one drink that has shochu as part of the build, and let's not confuse this with another spirit that sounds very similar Soju S-O-J-U from Korea. They should never be conflated. They are not the same thing. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence or paragraph. They're so different. They both are made in very different ways, serve very different purposes, and it's the Japanese shochu that is more frequently ending up in cocktails and usually good cocktail programs around the country. So if you're in a big city, if you're in Chicago, if you're in New York or Miami, or if you're in San Francisco, la, houston, you've got a good shot. Atlanta, just go to a good cocktail bar and ask about it and they probably have it. Then, if you're going to, if you go online, it's a lot easier to find. So if you want bottles shipped to you, that's absolutely an option.
Christopher PellegriniIt's a big world, though. There are 53 approved ingredients used to make this drink. There's so much diversity. Part of the challenge of getting into it is figuring out what your style is. Are you a rice shochu drinker, or are you a sweet potato shochu drinker or a chestnut shochu drinker. You got to figure that out first, then you got to figure out how you want to drink.
Natalie GuzmanI love that. Yeah, if you don't like it the first time you try it, just try a different variation of it. I love it. You know I've been. My husband is Puerto Rican. I like to say I'm 150% white and so I've been trying to cook Hispanic foods and so I made, like my own, sofrito, which is like a herb of mixes, and then I made, you know, like fried chicken, but Puerto Rican style, and it's just so different. You know, like they infuse the chicken in a pot with all the seasonings and everything and then they'll fry it or then they'll cook it.
Natalie GuzmanHowever, they're going to cook it and it's just so cool to see the different cooking processes, Because in America we don't like singe our meat and then put it onto a grill or then fry it or whatnot. We'll marinate it, but that's completely different, and so I love seeing the differences and processes of creating this. So what are the different? Is it the liquor? Is it brewed? Differently, it is actually.
Christopher PellegriniYep, it's very, very different and, as somebody who used to make beer, when I first was able to wedge my way into a distillery over here, my mind was blown. I mean, I worked making, you know, cooking the grains that made the mash, then they went into the lauder ton and they went into the lauter tun, then they went into the kettle. There's a very important pronounced hot side to brewing beer and, of course, making whiskey, because whiskey is essentially distilled beer In Japan with these indigenous spirits. They don't use malted grains, it's not allowed. They use an indigenous and this is incredibly mold M-O-L-D that is called koji, k-o-j-i, and koji is the magic behind most fermentation in Japan. Now you think of soy sauce and miso and sake and mirin and all of these really savory aspects of Japanese food culture. Those are all made with this mold koji, and all shochu and awamori must also be made with this mold koji, and all shochu and awamori must also be made with this mold koji. Koji is amazing because it's very efficient. It breaks starches into sugars very, very cleanly and very, as I said, I'm going to use the word efficient again and also adds the U word umami, so you get this extra savory punch to everything that it's involved in.
Christopher PellegriniThere's no hot side to the process of making these drinks. I mean, you do use steam to steam the grains and some of the starch sources, but there's no boil, there's no water time, there's none of this stuff. So when I first walked into a distillery and I was like, how do you the starch conversion does that? That doesn't happen. And and of course this was back in 2003, when I spoke that much Japanese now, maybe not even that much, and it was I couldn't simply explain or understand the explanations I was being given about. You know, I was saying I'm confused, I don't see how this works. It is so entirely different as to be. Well, it's just the beauty of the world as it is. Everybody's got their own way of doing things.
Natalie GuzmanI know it's so cool and I absolutely love that, but I noticed that a lot of people they like to stay in their comfort zone, right, they don't like to really necessarily learn new things or new ways. So you, one of the things that you're trying to do is introduce Japanese.
Christopher PellegriniSo what do you think has been your biggest hurdle with that? The biggest hurdle, in the beginning anyway, was my stubborn desire to stay true to the traditions of how these drinks are enjoyed in Japan, and that didn't compute in a lot of places. If you go to really mature markets where there's just a lot of innovation, a lot of turnover, everybody's trying to do the new thing, like New York, then you can find an audience for the traditional serve, but then you go to markets that are a few years behind. It takes a while for that innovation to sort of circulate their way and for them to iterate on that and do their own thing. When you get there, it's a stillborn conversation, honestly. You don't get anywhere with it. They're kind of like, well, why would you do that?
Christopher PellegriniSo we, over a period of years, had to figure out. We knew this was going to be the case. You have to meet people where they are, and so it was a lot more focus not on the off premise, which is the trade term for liquor stores, and more of the on premise, where the gatekeepers are, and the gatekeepers are bartenders, and bartenders are the ones who decide what to use and what to feature and how to how to feature those, those drinks, those, um, the things that they put in their cocktails and how they represent them on the menu. And if you don't go through them, you have nothing. So that was one of the big challenges early on was getting over me, getting over myself as a category expert, feeling like I had to be very, very faithful to the traditions. But I, over time, realized it doesn't work that way.
Natalie GuzmanYeah, it's really hard for it to get people to change because a lot of people are scared of change, and so that's what I've noticed with a lot of businesses like yours that people they always come to this hurdle because they're trying to convince someone. This is really cool, like you should try it, and everyone's like that's different, you know and I feel like especially America.
Natalie GuzmanI feel like we're very big on, like we are great with creativity, but I feel like changing our ways of how we've done things, how our parents have done things. It's why so many traditions are still here today.
No kidding, yeah, truth, this is a little shochu kettle from Kagoshima Prefecture. In one way. Traditionally they would drink sweet potato shochus. They, kagoshima Prefecture. In one way. Traditionally they would drink sweet potato shochu. They'd put it in here, put this over a flame, heat it up and then pour it into little cups communally, which is adorable and fun and great conversation. But you try and bring that aspect of culture to somewhere that's not ready for it and they'll let you know real quick. They'll be like yeah, I don't think that's going to work here. Yeah, well, all right, you're probably. You're not incorrect. I think it will someday in certain places, but it's not going to work straight out of the box.
Natalie GuzmanYeah, I feel like places that are more so. If it was like more themed to the traditional, you know, like Japanese culture, I feel like that would totally fit Like cause you're trying to immerse yourself into the culture. But then, but if you're going to like a bar or some you know someplace to get a drink and it's in America and you know our seating is different, our vibes are different, like everything is different, and then you bring something from a different country. I can see it not fitting, but, like you said, you go through the bartenders and the bartenders are kind of educators. I know that's how I learned a lot of the drinks that I like are from bartenders, because I'd be like I want something like this, but not too sweet, and then they would create this amazing thing.
Natalie GuzmanSo I love that you guys went through bartenders because they're the educators, and I think that's one of the cool things about businesses is, like when you're starting a business or you're even growing your business is to look for the people that are already in the market and utilize them. Because that was really smart. Like you were like bartenders, everyone giving out these drinks. It's if we don't get through them, it's not going anywhere, and so that was really, really smart. I absolutely love that.
Christopher PellegriniYeah, I mean I can't take any credit for that. That was just sort of naturally the way it was going to happen. So I guess the only thing I can take credit for is me not being too stubborn.
Natalie GuzmanYeah or not letting it stop you. You got a hurdle and you didn't just say, oh well, I give up, I'm just going to focus. You know, like I'm in Japan, I'm just going to focus on Japan. You know, you found a way for your hurdle, so I give you credit there, chris.
Christopher PellegriniThank you.
Natalie GuzmanAwesome. Well, where can we find more about you and your business?
Christopher PellegriniSo the business is online at Honkaku Spirits H-O-N-K-A-K-U. Honkaku means authentic, genuine in Japanese, HonkakuSpiritscom, and you can actually order some of our products through the web shop there, depending on which state you're in. You know how America is about shipping things across state lines very territorial, and everybody wants their tax revenue and nobody seems to realize that, hey, if they're buying from us, they might then and we buy from them. That's still the same, isn't it Still the tax revenue?
Natalie Guzmanis coming in. I'm formerly from Taxachusetts, as I like to call it, so we're beginning to get fireworks there.
Christopher PellegriniThat's a tough spirits market. Nobody wants to do business there. I hope you're listening, taxachusetts. It's nobody wants to do business there because of how onerous your rules are. Nobody cares, I'm sure. So anybody with any power probably does not care, because they're getting paid. So that's a good portal if you're in one of those states that can receive spiritship. And then we have a new website called Takamine Whiskey A-K-A-M-I-N-E, spelled just like the guitar brand. It's not a guitar brand, it's a whiskey brand Takamine Whiskey A-K-A-M-I-N-E, spelled just like the guitar brand. It's not a guitar brand, it's a whiskey brand TakamineWhiskey, with an E dot com. And that will lead you to places where you can buy our flagship whiskey as well, also made with koji. So it's a little different from an American style whiskey. There's no malt harmed in the production of Takamine whiskey. It's a cordified grain and it's beautiful. It has the best story and spirits maybe second. But those are a couple of places to find out more about the company.
Christopher PellegriniIf you want to track me down and harass me, then you would go to Christopher Pellegrini on Instagram. I also use a little known network these days called Spoutable S-P-O-U-T-I-B-L-E, if you're looking for something that doesn't have any harassment on it. So you wouldn't be able to harass me on that one. You would actually have to be civil, and I guess that's it. I'm on Facebook too, but not all the time. I do have a personal website called christopherpellegrinicom where I publish a blog If you aren't into like paper books, like this one that I published the Shochu Handbook that you can get on Amazon, just read my blog, where I go through the nitty gritty of the basic of Shochu and Awamori. How are they unique, how are they different from other things that people know? How are they made? So I guess that's me in a digital nutshell.
Natalie GuzmanAwesome. I'll make sure I put all those in the show as well, but thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure and I love learning new things, especially about a different culture than mine, so that was awesome. Thank you so much for educating us.
Christopher PellegriniThank you, Natalie.
Natalie GuzmanAll right, and we'll talk to you guys next time on the Virtual Antics Podcast.