[00:00:00] Darien Gee: Trust yourself as a writer. Just trust yourself as a writer. Even if you don't know what that means, trust who you are, the writing skills that you have. Don't feel like I can't do this because I'm coming from another genre, or I've never written before or any of that. It's not a helpful thought. It's not true.
[00:00:18] Darien Gee: Just we're writers, and this is what we do. We write, so whether you write poetry, you write personal essay, you write memoir, you write novels, you write short stories, you might have preferences, but you are a writer and this is what you do. You write,
[00:00:38] Nicole Meier: welcome to the Whole Writer, a place where we talk about what it means to show up as someone who's grounded in their voice, in their community, and in their creative path. Even when the world tells them to hustle, compare, or conform. I'm Nicole MeIer, a multi published author and book coach who believes that nurturing the person behind the page is just as important as refining the words on it.
[00:01:03] Nicole Meier: In each episode, we'll explore the terrain of writing life with honesty, warmth, and practical wisdom, creating space for you to write from a place of wholeness rather than depletion. Whether you're drafting your first manuscript or publishing your fifth book, you'll find conversation and companionship for the journey here.
[00:01:25] Nicole Meier: So settle in, bring your questions and your curiosity, and let's discover together what it means to write and live with authenticity and purpose.
[00:01:38] Nicole Meier: Welcome writers. Welcome on in. I'm so happy to have you here today. We are with a very special guest, Darien Shuji, and before we jump into all things writing and publishing and living the life of a creative, I would love to introduce her formally by reading her bio. So Darien Shuji is the author of internationally published novels with Penguin Random House and an award-winning writer whose work spans fiction, nonfiction, and poetry.
[00:02:07] Nicole Meier: Her honors include a Poetry Society of America, Chatbook Fellowship, a Hawaii Book Publisher's Association Award, and two independent publisher book awards. She's current project for Blooms. Barry's object lesson series examines the cultural and personal significance of the fortune cookie. Darien teaches micro pros through her Substack writer ish, where she focuses on craft clarity and the possibilities of short form writing.
[00:02:36] Nicole Meier: And drafts, deals and detours where she shares how she built a literary life by refusing to stay in one lane. Love it so much. Welcome, Darien. Thanks so much for having me here, Nicole, I'm so happy to have you here because I have been. Such a fan of your work and also fan of your energy. You write in different genres, which I just adore.
[00:03:00] Nicole Meier: I love that you don't wanna stay in one lane, but I also love the generosity that you offer, the writing community and creative community as a whole over on Substack. So this is very fun for me,
[00:03:11] Darien Gee: you so much for saying that. You know, you sometimes wonder. About these different things that you're trying and how when you put yourself out in the world and certainly on substack, if it resonates or if it's helpful.
[00:03:22] Darien Gee: So I really appreciate hearing that. Thank you.
[00:03:24] Nicole Meier: Yeah, of course. So for people that are just getting to know you, I would love to start at the beginning, if you will. Would you be able to share with us a little bit about your journey into writing, how themes like family ancestry, and everyday moments became central to your work?
[00:03:40] Darien Gee: Sure. So let's see. I'll do sort of the quick recap. So like many writers I have been writing since fourth grade. I started telling the stories at a very young age, and I knew that writing was something I wanted to do. And like many writers as well, I learned very quickly that there aren't quote unquote jobs for writers.
[00:04:02] Darien Gee: And I knew I wasn't really a journalist, and so that wasn't an angle that I was going to be pursuing. I kind of put it on the back burner and then just grew up and went through life and I was a political science major in college and had thought that I would maybe do law school, and I think there's a big push all the time for I think readers to be in spaces.
[00:04:26] Darien Gee: At least it was for me. Where I'm a super fast reader. So my first job outta school was with Pricewaterhouse or now PricewaterhouseCoopers in the tax division.
[00:04:34] Nicole Meier: Was it really read?
[00:04:36] Darien Gee: Yeah, because 'cause really, well, they had the best vacation plan. That is the honest truth. And I got to travel a little bit, but mostly it was because I could read the tax code really fast.
[00:04:45] Darien Gee: I didn't even have to really deeply understand it. Just like, again, most writers, I kind of know how to pull information out, or at least that's just something I've always enjoyed. So I was writing a little bit creatively on the side, but I finally. And I, this is gonna sound, I don't know, maybe it sounds relatable or maybe it sounds strange, but I think I always felt and believed that I had a book in me.
[00:05:04] Darien Gee: And when I say a book, I mean specifically at that time, a novel. I just didn't know if it was gonna ever get published or if I'd even finish it. But I knew that was something I wanted to do at some point. And I was doing short stories. I did some plays, there was a lot of things I was experimenting with genre wise.
[00:05:22] Darien Gee: I knew the novel was something that I wanted to sink into, and so I had returned from overseas. I did an overseas assignment with Pricewaterhouse for about three years, and I came back and I eventually left that job and I took a year off, which I don't recommend to write the novel. And I did write the novel.
[00:05:42] Darien Gee: I did get an agent offer, and then I freaked out. Didn't sign the agent offer and put the book on the shelf and went and got a job. I just, oh
[00:05:50] Nicole Meier: my goodness.
[00:05:51] Darien Gee: Yes. I know, I know. And I think that self-sabotage was art or is part of what I deal with as a creative person. I'm much better now 'cause I recognize the signs, I understand why I'm doing it, but at the time, the fear was bigger than the hope or the possibility of what might come to pass.
[00:06:09] Darien Gee: So it was almost another 10 years before I really tried again in earnest and, or maybe it was like eight years. I have to kind of do the math of that. But it was a while. And what happened was, at this point I was now married. I had one child, and we were really broke. We had burned through our savings trying to launch a business.
[00:06:28] Darien Gee: My husband and I were each doing multiple jobs, you know, different kinds of things, and I finally was like, you know what? I really feel like I can do this book. I know I've done it before. I knew somebody was interested before, I bet I can do it again and I'm gonna do something fun. So I wrote what you know is what they used to call Chicklet.
[00:06:45] Nicole Meier: Yes,
[00:06:45] Darien Gee: I did that. I did get an agent for that and that was my first book that went out and that was it. Published in 2007. It's called Good Things. And I wrote under pen name Mia King, even though it was my photo on the back. And I tell people on the website what my real name is. Because my husband at the time was also publishing a book with Stuart Taborian Chang, with Harry Abrams, and our names are almost identical.
[00:07:07] Nicole Meier: Yeah,
[00:07:08] Darien Gee: his Darien G and my name is Darien G. So I was like, you know, this is whatever, chiclet. I actually thought I was writing romance, but I wasn't writing romance. So I was like, oh, well the romance writers, they write sometimes under a pseudonym, so I'll just do that. And so I kind of mashed together a name that was my daughter's name and a friend's name, and I was like, I'll do that.
[00:07:26] Darien Gee: And I did three books under that imprint, Berkeley, which is a random house, and it started what they call my numbers started trending down. And that just means when you're selling less than your previous book, which not great. And so I also had an agent change in there and I was feeling really lost and I could feel that my current agent and I were also having a bit of a disconnect.
[00:07:50] Darien Gee: She's really good at what she does and she's doing amazing right now, but it just at the time was not a fit. And so I was discouraged and I was sad, to be honest with you. 'cause I thought it was over and after a few months I was like, well, I may as well just try again. I got nothing to lose. And so I wrote.
[00:08:08] Darien Gee: A book that got me my third agent and is the book that actually was the basis for the website that became the food blog and also sold in a bunch of countries and sold at auction. And that really kind of taught me that it's never over til it's over. And quite frankly, you're always as good as your last book.
[00:08:26] Darien Gee: Meaning that even if you're trending down, you might surprise yourself. And if a book comes out and it's the right time. The right place, regardless of what your track record was. No one's gonna be like, oh, we don't want this book. They're gonna be like, yes, please. And so that's what that taught me, because in theory, I've been told already I wouldn't be able to be sold again.
[00:08:45] Darien Gee: And that's what happened with that book. So that book did well out the gate and then it flopped. It just didn't take off after that. So there I am again now with the big deal, having flopped and my agent at that point saying, I don't know that I can sell you again. And that slump lasted a bit longer. That slump lasted, gosh, a few years, and then I was already teaching crave nonfiction.
[00:09:10] Darien Gee: I've been teaching writing for a while, even before I was as published as I am now, and I was teaching memoir a lot, and I just pivoted unexpectedly into creative nonfiction and poetry. I wanted to tell some stories and I thought I could do it through fiction, and it turned out that there were other forms waiting for me, so I'll kind of stop there.
[00:09:29] Darien Gee: But that's kind of what it was, and then it, it opened up a whole new door and a whole new life for me in terms of my writing capacity and interests and joy.
[00:09:37] Nicole Meier: It's such an incredible story, and I am so pleased that you're sharing the pivots because there are so many writers today who. Whether they are emerging or agented or had published one genre or another are multi-passionate.
[00:09:53] Nicole Meier: They're multi creative and they're terrified of switching lanes. They're terrified of, oh, I wrote under a pen name, but I wanna write under my own. I wrote this genre, but I would like to come out with a wholly different genre, but my agent will not support that. So can you just unpack a little bit about.
[00:10:10] Nicole Meier: Maybe what your thoughts or fears were, or even your agent or publisher's thoughts and fears were, were of a letting go of a pen, name B switching genres. I mean, how did that work out for you? Obviously, we know the end product worked out, but how'd it work out in the process?
[00:10:26] Darien Gee: Well, the pen name was easy because quite honestly, I wanted to keep the pen name, which was Mia King.
[00:10:32] Darien Gee: I wanted to keep that pen name for the new book, my fourth novel with Penguin Random House, which is called Friendship Read. Because I wanted to give it a boost and of course, hopefully also draw some interest to my back list and that sort of thing. But my agent at the time felt that because my numbers had been trending down and we were trying to do something new, we should use my real name, which I kind of regret only because I really like using my real name for my creative nonfiction and poetry and things like that.
[00:11:01] Darien Gee: But it's fine. And so that's what we did. And so now both names technically, I guess you could say, they just, I don't know. Now I'm like, great. So now I have, I've been told twice that my numbers are trending down or I can't be sold again. And all I can say about that is at some point, as a writer, and I think as a creative and as a human, you just have to decide what you're gonna listen to and what you're not gonna listen to.
[00:11:24] Darien Gee: And this doesn't mean that you're going to ignore. Conventional wisdom or understand what the rules are of the playing field. I feel like one thing that I've always been very good at is I've always understood the market. I've always understood the realities of being a writer. I've understood the work of being a writer as well as the art of being a writer and the business of being a writer.
[00:11:47] Darien Gee: That's, I think, helped me quite a bit because I've been able to be objective when I've needed to be, you know, if I get a rejection or so on. But if you have an agent, your agent is. Most likely gonna give you advice that they think is at that time correct. And you know what? At that time it might be correct.
[00:12:05] Darien Gee: At that time, they can't seem to figure out how to turn things around for you. And then you go, okay, so that's where they are. Where am I with it? And that's what I think. Ultimately is what happened with me. It's not that I didn't believe them, but if I believed that it was over and I wasn't ready for it to be over.
[00:12:24] Darien Gee: So then it was like, okay, well what else can I do? You know, brainstorming is one of my superpowers. I do it with my clients all the time. I do it for myself. I do it with my kids, do it with my husband. Finding another way, that's something that I do really well. So once you get past the disappointment and all of that sort of thing, if you get some sort of a hit with your career.
[00:12:44] Darien Gee: Then the next thing I do is be like, okay, so what can I do? What is possible to stay really curious about things that might really surprise you? I didn't know that I was going to have a food blog, for example. I will tell you, honestly, it was a lot of work. I would've never voluntarily gotten into that doing the food blog, but I did learn a lot.
[00:13:03] Darien Gee: It actually, it was monetized, so it helped pay some bills. I learned also about more about writing short and how to. Connect with a readership that may or may not really know you beyond a certain sort of the world. And it taught me a lot of things. That all being said, you get to a point where you say, okay, what do I need more of?
[00:13:26] Darien Gee: What do I need less of? And what's working for me and what's not working for me anymore? There's that quote, what got you here won't get you there. And I think with writers that is the case. We would love it to be like the old days. I mean now it's the old, old days where you had an agent for life, you had an editor for life, you met for lunch.
[00:13:44] Darien Gee: They took you out to whatever, the three martini dinner, three martini lunch, whatever that is, and they were really a partner with you all the way through. And I do have friends who have agents who have that kind of relationship. I know more people who and friends who don't have that kind of a relationship, who have had more than one agent, and sometimes it just runs its course.
[00:14:04] Darien Gee: Sometimes the relationship with the book is the thing that binds you. It's not really your long-term career. It really depends on the agent and the agency. At the end of the day. However, this is your life, your career, your writing, and you need to decide what you're going to do or not do. So if you have gone through the slush pile, which I have now several times, and you are used to sending out and getting rejections, I wouldn't say that you build up a thicker skin, but I think you just start to really understand this is just how it goes.
[00:14:35] Darien Gee: This is part of the process. And then, then you look for ways to position yourself in, I think. A better way, meaning that if everyone's doing this, what maybe can I do that might be a little bit different? That's not disrespectful or annoying, right? To an agent. Don't send them a singing telegram or whatever.
[00:14:55] Darien Gee: I guess if you're really funny, you could do that. I'm, I would just be annoying if I did that. But you just kind of think, what else can I do? How else do I need to distinguish myself? You know, querying letters. It's really hard when everybody else is writing a really good querying letter. So it's like, and they all
[00:15:09] Nicole Meier: are.
[00:15:09] Nicole Meier: Yeah.
[00:15:10] Darien Gee: Yeah. So anyways, in a nutshell, I really feel like you need to be listening to who you are as a writer. And that's what I, I actually, I tell my clients and my writers all the time, is actually your most important job is two things. One, it's to pay attention. Not only to the world around you, but to yourself.
[00:15:27] Darien Gee: How are you feeling? What is your response to what's going on? You don't have to always write about it or if you write about it, you don't always have to share it, but you need to know. And a lot of writers actually don't know when I say, why do you wanna get published? Well, I think it'd be great to have a book out, but why?
[00:15:42] Darien Gee: Well, you know, I always thought I could be a writer. Well, why? And you wanna peel back that onion until you have that clarity for yourself. Why am I doing this? Once you have that clarity, you can make decisions and pivots and pivots that are in alignment with that. Otherwise, we are throwing things to the wall to see what sticks.
[00:16:01] Darien Gee: We're trying this, we're trying that we're listening to this person, listening to that person. So it really comes down to being able to hear for yourself how you're feeling, what's going on. And also the truth is. I got lucky. I will say that I think the key to being lucky is to being prepared so that when opportunity does knock, you're ready to go and walk through that door.
[00:16:23] Darien Gee: But at the same time, there's lots of good writers who don't get published and lots of not so great writing that does get published.
[00:16:31] Nicole Meier: Oh my gosh, so many good truths. Sarah listeners, if I were you, I would be hitting that rewind button and listen to that whole truth nugget again and again. I mean, really.
[00:16:42] Nicole Meier: You have to be aligned. You have to listen to yourself. You have to know why you're doing it. We all can say, oh, sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, really to sit with those questions and those questions evolve over different seasons of our lives
[00:16:56] Darien Gee: ly. Yeah, they do. And the other thing is that I think the reason we don't sit with it is because we're actually scared.
[00:17:02] Darien Gee: We don't really want to either. Know the answer or we're scared, the answer may not be what we want, and we're so used to living in society or maybe with your day job where having a goal and having an outcome and go Gogo is we know how to do that. We actually know how to do that. We actually know how to organize ourselves for that.
[00:17:22] Darien Gee: And it feels good on the surface level to be quote unquote, doing something. But I think one of the reasons that we are called to be writers is because we've always had that draw to understand the way the world works, the way relationships work, the way we move through the world. And you do have to slow down in order to understand that.
[00:17:44] Darien Gee: And you do have to slow down to really make sure you're where you wanna be and revisit that every now and then.
[00:17:50] Nicole Meier: Oh, well said. And a beautiful transition to what I wanted to ask you about next. So talking about slowing down, you've taken detours, right? You've had long stretches of not writing at all. So how, looking back reflecting, how do you now understand those pauses as part of becoming the writer who you are?
[00:18:09] Darien Gee: Well, I think intellectually, many of us know that it's important to take these pauses, that a fallow period does not mean that it's over. It doesn't mean that the well has run dry. It might feel that way, but there are lots of different reasons as to why we just stopped writing for a while or for a long time, or you know, maybe forever.
[00:18:32] Darien Gee: A lot of it, I think, is going to again, go back to your why, why you're writing in the first place. If you don't know why you're writing in the first place, and even if you have books out in the world, you are not gonna be satisfied. It is not going to fill your cup, it's not gonna be enough. Something is still gonna be missing.
[00:18:46] Darien Gee: And so knowing that, why. Enables you to, I think, keep doing what you love. When I see really good writers who have hit the wall and they literally stop and they're like, I'm done. I'm giving up. And a lot of it I think, has to do again with what is it that they were hoping was going to happen or what is it they wanted to have happen and what did happen?
[00:19:05] Darien Gee: And what's happening in that gap and what does that mean? You know, the gap is not a bad thing. The gap is the opportunity as I'm gazing into whatever that place that we're trying to have more understanding of. But the gap is really useful and it is hard to see it when you're in it, when you are taking a detour, especially if it's not by choice.
[00:19:26] Darien Gee: If you say, I'm going to do this, and then you're doing it, that's one thing. If you don't wanna have to do something and your agent's like, I'm sorry, I can't sell you. I'm sorry you have to put this book away. This book, we've tried to sell it. Nobody wants it. It's a good book, but just start on your next book.
[00:19:41] Darien Gee: And so you don't wanna give it up, but you feel like you have to. Or like I said, if you feel like the well is run dry, that's really hard. And if you are having grief about it, I think you need to acknowledge it. We need to say, wow, I'm really not just disappointed. I'm grieving that. I'm really sad about that.
[00:19:57] Darien Gee: It's making me question. Things about what I thought were true. And that's the lesson because were you thinking, for example, or myself, that publishing was going to prove something in a way that you writing? It isn't. And again, there's no right or wrong. Any of your answers are fine. Even if you're like, I wanna write to make a million dollars.
[00:20:16] Darien Gee: Why? Because I've always been, whatever, whatever, whatever your answer is, actually, there's no right or wrong with the answer. The only thing is, is it true and is it true for you? And I do think that we tend to create in a vacuum as writers, again, because we know and we live in a society that does push us to.
[00:20:34] Darien Gee: Have those kinds of constraints, and I do teach constraints with micro pros as well as a framework. But at the end of the day when people say to me, do I have to write this way? I go, you're, what I'm thinking is, you're an adult, you're a writer. Of course you can do whatever you want. This is just one way to learn this form in a way that I teach it, where I've had great success and writers have had great success.
[00:20:59] Darien Gee: But of course if you either don't like it or it doesn't work for you, then try something different. I mean, who's setting the rules here? I mean, even publishing who's setting the rules here? So I always find it funny because it's almost like we forget our agency as writers aggregators. And so that's just kind of what I would say is that when you have those long stretches of not writing at all.
[00:21:20] Darien Gee: Hindsight is 2020. You can always be like, well, of course that was really wonderful and I needed that time off and I was still creating as I was walking through my life and with my family. And I believe we write because we're in the world. Whenever people say, I mentioned before, I took a year off to write an novel, which I do not recommend.
[00:21:37] Darien Gee: I really feel like we are better writers when we are active in the world and participating in the world, but just observing it. And so if you have a long stretch of not writing, do not beat yourself up. Just be like, I guess I need a long stretch of not writing. I guess something is trying to happen here for me, and if I don't understand what it is, I'm just going to trust that I'll figure it out later.
[00:22:00] Darien Gee: And even if I don't, I'm just going to be in this moment. Now. I think being present is really hard for some writers. It isn't for others, it is for me. That's why I think sometimes those stretches happen, and sometimes we need that recalibration and sometimes we need that really hard stop if we've been going, going, going, not just as riders, but in our lives.
[00:22:21] Nicole Meier: Amen. Okay. You mentioned micro pros, which I'm thrilled that you brought that up because this is sort of what you're known for, especially in your substack. Right? So you focus on micro pros, you talk about everyday moments, which makes me so happy because that is being present. And I would love to know how you're working.
[00:22:40] Nicole Meier: Small, small pros. Micro pros helps writers pay better attention to their lives and their stories. This is something that doesn't get talked about enough.
[00:22:49] Darien Gee: Yeah, and again, there are lots of different ways. There are lots of different ways to pay attention to your life as a writer. There are lots of different kinds of maybe writing exercises or practices that you could integrate into your writing life that could accomplish something similar.
[00:23:05] Darien Gee: But I do think writing micro and learning the form and certainly the way, you know, I didn't invent short Pros. It's obviously been out there for a long time. Flash is the one that people are most familiar with, which is anywhere from seven 50 to 1250 words max. But for me, micro Pros, which I define as 300 words or less, and I tend to be speaking mostly in the creative non-fiction sort of personal essay space.
[00:23:27] Darien Gee: But of course you could use it for fiction I did without realizing I was doing it. But what I love about it is that you can actually do several things with it. One is that you can get good really fast with micro pros in terms of a practice and the craft, because it is a smaller form. If I had to teach someone how to get really good at writing memoir, especially a full length memoir or full length novel, it might happen, and honestly, it also might not happen.
[00:23:54] Darien Gee: It's a lot of work to write a novel well. If someone kind of doesn't know where to begin, they have desire, but they don't really know. It's hard, not impossible. It is really, really hard with micro pros. However, I can give people tools and if they practice and write regularly, they will get good. It just happens.
[00:24:12] Darien Gee: The other thing that I love about it is that we can do a lot of close readings of existing short prose pieces that are out in the world. Like I call it out in the wild, if I said, yeah, you wanna learn how to write a novel, read these 15 novels, I mean,
[00:24:25] Nicole Meier: right.
[00:24:25] Darien Gee: And even then, quite frankly, it's not always enough.
[00:24:27] Darien Gee: But I can easily say, read these 5, 10, 15, 20 Micro Pros pieces, and you could have them done honestly in a couple of hours. I would encourage, of course, a slower read, but you can. Take apart a single piece and be like, what did the writer do here? It's hard to do that for novel. I've done it for novels. I know people who've done it as well.
[00:24:46] Darien Gee: It's just not a fast process. It's a very slow process. But with Micro, you can look at a piece and be like, what's happening? What did the author, the narrator, the speaker do in the first line, the last line? Where am I anchored in time? What's the emotional tone of this piece? How do I feel when it's done?
[00:25:04] Darien Gee: We can make an evaluation and understand it and understand the architecture of a piece so much faster. So from a structural and craft point, I think that's what makes me really excited about it. When people are trying to do micro new the form. And it's also very kind for readers, because readers can read one of your pieces.
[00:25:23] Darien Gee: You're giving them a 40,000, 50,000, 85,000, 100, 10,000 word manuscript and be like, tell me what you think, right? Yeah. You're giving them 300 words or less. And it's done. It's a complete piece in and of itself. And this, by the way, doesn't mean that you can't take the piece and make it into something else as well.
[00:25:42] Darien Gee: It's more of an and rather than an or. So people are like, well, if I write this story, I grow, I can't do it as longer essay later. And I'm like, why not? And they're like, because I already told this story and I'm like. There are so many ways that you could do this story. This is not just you expanding it from 300 words to seven 50 or 5,000 words.
[00:26:03] Darien Gee: This is you saying, what is it that I feel like I haven't said in 300 words, that I wanna say in more space? And it may be a completely different approach, but my thing is try 300 words, learn the constraints that I teach, which is three constraints of time, word count, and intention. The intention is a really big part.
[00:26:24] Darien Gee: And then commit to a short practice. I tell people to do 10 minutes a day. That is it, but not eight minutes. Even if you feel like you're done, you really honor the full time and it just sets up some new parameters with how you appreciate and honor what you write, how you show up that you can dip into your life very deliberately and be like, okay, this is what I'm noticing.
[00:26:48] Darien Gee: This is what I wanna write about. It's great for people who have family stories. Four memoirs and don't know where to begin. It's a wonderful starting point.
[00:26:56] Nicole Meier: Oh, I'm so into this concept, and I think that it's so much more accessible, which is so funny that I'm saying that right, because my day job is doing developmental edits for three to 600 page books sometimes.
[00:27:09] Nicole Meier: But
[00:27:10] sure.
[00:27:10] Nicole Meier: I think this is so accessible and it's so important for people who A, yes are learning their writing voice, but also b. Writing a different genre than they've ever written before. You know, let's say I'm a fiction writer and I wanna write narrative nonfiction. This would be the place that I would start.
[00:27:24] Nicole Meier: I would start with micro pros. So you have people that come to you, they're flocking to your substack. I'm sure they're coming into your workshops, but let's share with everyone, 'cause they're probably on the edge of their seat, wanting to know how they can work with you. Let's share about how people can work with you and learn from you.
[00:27:41] Darien Gee: Well, the easiest way and to see how you feel about me and how you feel about Micro Pros is to subscribe to my Substack. I have three tiers. There's a free subscriber tier, which I try to give out as much as possible. I do weekly, 10 minute writing sessions on substack. Those are free for everyone, the live, but the replays and all the bonus content.
[00:28:02] Darien Gee: Access to me is for paid. The paid subscribers also get access to. A writing workshop. I usually have a couple going on at any given time, either on Substack, sometimes off of Substack. We have a monthly co-writing session. There's just lots of ways where you can decide how you wanna show up and learn and grow with the practice of micro pros.
[00:28:24] Darien Gee: And then I have a top tier, which is access to all the archives because you can never write the same prompt twice. So I always encourage people when they go, I don't know what to write about. I'm like, look at the prompt you wrote this week and write it again. You won't write the same thing. Then also that gives people a one-on-one consult with me, the highest tier, or they can just do a one-on-one consult with me.
[00:28:43] Darien Gee: I also teach occasionally at U-C-L-A-X-U-C-L-A extension, and I do personal essay over there as well as Micro pros, micro memoir, writing about the family, things like that. And I teach in a lot of different places, but everything starts at the substack.
[00:28:59] Nicole Meier: I love all of this. Now, there's going to be someone listening right now who says, I'm so afraid of sharing my work.
[00:29:05] Nicole Meier: I've never done Micro Pros. What advice would you have for them?
[00:29:09] Darien Gee: You don't have to share your work. You don't have to share work, but you have to write. Writing is the first thing that we do, and you write for yourself first. If you get to a point where you're like, I think I would benefit from having feedback, or even if you don't want feedback, but you want practice, maybe reading your piece aloud and having people just witness it and hear it.
[00:29:28] Darien Gee: There's a huge value to that too. But you don't have to do it. And I understand the fear and I understand the hesitation, and all I can say is, that's okay. That's okay. Start where you are. But the most important thing is to write the story down. And I know a lot of people are even scared to write the story down, even if they're not planning on sharing it, because they just don't know where it's gonna go.
[00:29:48] Darien Gee: And I will say this, which is that the fear of writing is actually always greater than what ends up on the page. You will most likely have a tremendous amount of relief when you're done. If there's, the other great thing, if you're doing Michael Pros, your first draft is only 10 minutes. And actually the way I teach revision, we do two very deep revision passes in my revision workshops, and those are also only 10 minutes each.
[00:30:13] Darien Gee: And it's a leapfrog approach in terms of really getting to the heart of what it is you wanna say. So I would say two things. One. Well, I've said a lot of things already. One is that to really trust yourself as a writer, just trust yourself as a writer. Even if you don't know what that means, trust who you are, the writing skills that you have.
[00:30:33] Darien Gee: Don't feel like, I can't do this because I'm coming from another genre, or I've never written before, or any of that. It's not a helpful thought. It's not true. Just we're writers, and this is what we do. We write, so whether you write poetry, you write personal essay, you write memoir, you write novels, you write short stories, you might have preferences, but you are a writer and this is what you do, you write.
[00:30:54] Darien Gee: So that's the first thing is just to really just trust yourself as a writer. And the second thing is to just try period. Just Troy, have fun with it. You know, I don't wanna stress anyone out. I'm never gonna drag anyone into becoming a writer or having a regular practice or doing a prompt with me. If it's not the right time for you, then it's okay.
[00:31:17] Darien Gee: It's not the right time for you. There's seasons for all of this, for whatever reason, however conscious we are or are not about where we are, but you can feel how you're feeling. If you recognize though that what you're feeling is fear and you're still deeply curious, lean towards the curiosity. Let yourself hang out in that space.
[00:31:36] Darien Gee: Okay? You know what? I don't know what's gonna happen here, but Darien's only asking me to show up for 10 minutes. I'm gonna do it. And that's it. And you know what? After 10 minutes, you're done. And if you hate it, you never have to do it again. Most likely you'll be like, wow, that wasn't so bad. In many cases, you'll be like, wow, that was actually pretty good.
[00:31:55] Darien Gee: And wow, I really like what I wrote, and wow, how can I do this again? So, yeah, just stay open. It's okay if you're scared. If you're feeling curious though, leaning into that and just try one little step and you can reach out to me on Substack. I love giving gentle enough. So gentle nudges.
[00:32:15] Nicole Meier: Oh, this was such a beautiful and valuable conversation.
[00:32:20] Nicole Meier: I'm so happy that you're there for writers and also for readers. So let's end this by sharing the website or the substack actual address so people can find you. And I of course will share this in the show notes as well.
[00:32:34] Darien Gee: So the first one is writer ish, W-R-I-T-E-R-I-S-H. 'cause they don't let you have hyphens on Substack.
[00:32:42] Darien Gee: That's at Substack. You can find me there. My second substack, which is launching in January, is draft deals and detours, and that's exactly draft deals. Detours is the handle or what that is. So you can find me there, or you can just type in dairy and g. And you'll see me 'cause I'm kind of a little bit all over the place over there.
[00:33:01] Darien Gee: So just come find me, uh, follow if you'd like, subscribe if it feels like a fit. And I hope I get to see you in a future live writing session or writing workshop or any of the zillions of things I'm doing on Substack right now.
[00:33:16] Nicole Meier: Wonderful. Thank you so much Darien, and thank you listeners. We will see you next time on the Whole writer.
[00:33:28] Nicole Meier: If you want to check out my coaching programs for fiction writers, visit nicolemeIer.com. That's M-E-I-E-R. And if you like this episode, I'd love you to take a minute to leave a rating and review for this podcast. This will help more writers like you to discover the show and to get going on their writing journey.
[00:33:48] Nicole Meier: Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, happy writing everyone.