47. BTS of a Writing Conference: A Roundtable Discussion

In this week's episode, I'm having an honest and inspired roundtable discussion with four of my writing clients. We dive into the nerves, surprises, and triumphs of attending their first writers' conference. We share:⁠
✨ Why they took the plunge into their first conference—and how to prepare like a pro.⁠
✨ The most unexpected moments that left them stunned (in the best way!).⁠
✨ Smart tips for networking, even if you’re an introvert.⁠
✨ That unforgettable moment of inspiration and validation every writer dreams of.⁠
✨ Lessons learned and advice for first-time attendees to make the most of the experience.⁠
Whether you’re gearing up for your first conference or reflecting on your own journey, this episode will inspire you to show up, shine, and own your space as a writer. Tune in to hear their nuggets of wisdom!
To find more on Nicole: Coaching | Book Works

To find more on:
Megan Eilers: Substack | Instagram
Kelly Kearsley: Substack
Christi (Ella Merriweather): Website | Instagram

Transcript

STEPS TO STORY EP 47 - Behind the Scenes of a Writers Conference

[00:00:00] Nicole Meier: Oh my goodness, listeners. You're in for a treat today. Recently, four of my fabulous writing clients attended the Kaua'i Writers Conference, and today they're sharing their experience and wisdom with us. And do I mean wisdom? This episode is airing at the start of the year on purpose. This is because I believe including a conference or summit, whether it be online or in person, in your novel writing journey can be a valuable experience.

[00:00:30] Nicole Meier: There are events out there for all kinds of schedules and budgets. Some are virtual, allowing for you to attend from the comfort of your own home. Some are in person that actually allow for you to pick and choose which days you prefer to attend. And some are what today's guests did, which was fly to the beautiful island of Kauai to attend a full week of masterclasses and agent pitch sessions.

[00:00:57] Nicole Meier: As you listen to Megan, Kelly, Holly, and Christy, see if you can find parts of your own journey reflected in theirs. My guess is, is that you will, and it will inspire you as you move forward. All right, let's get into it.

[00:01:20] Nicole Meier: Welcome to Steps to Story. This season, I'm focusing on helping you grow as a writer and as an author. I'm Nicole Meier, multi published author and certified book coach, here to guide you on strengthening your story and getting it out into the world. This season, we'll explore ways to overcome the challenges that hold writers back, from breaking through creative blocks to fine tuning your story structure.

[00:01:46] Nicole Meier: and navigating the publishing world with confidence. Wherever you are in your journey, consider this your supportive space to find clarity, direction, and encouragement. Let's take the next step in your story together.

[00:02:03] Nicole Meier: Okay, welcome everybody. This is so exciting for me personally because I am recording this with four of my writers that I have worked with before and also they are on another podcast episode. So make sure I'll put that in the show notes to listen to that as well. But they're back today and 2024 was such a big year for them in terms of Really getting serious about their novel manuscripts and getting serious about their author careers moving forward.

[00:02:30] Nicole Meier: So welcome everybody Happy to be here. Nicole. Hi Okay, so I think what I will do is launch into my first question because this episode is all about Letting writers know what it's like to really go to a writer's conference that is of value and that you got stuff out of. And what I mean by that is I personally have been to a handful of writers conferences over the past decade.

[00:02:54] Nicole Meier: Some of them are worth their salt and some of them are too much fluff and it didn't feel like the right fit. I feel like you guys went to a lot of them. a really great conference, and you have some nuggets of wisdom and things to share. So I'm going to start with Megan. I'm going to ask my first question and kind of do a roundtable here.

[00:03:11] Nicole Meier: Megan, what motivated you to attend your first Writers Conference, and how did you prepare for it? 

[00:03:17] Megan Eilers: Absolutely. Hi, everybody. I'm Megan Eilers. I write up market fiction, and I think I was honestly motivated at the idea of having a self imposed deadline to complete my manuscript, knowing that there was a very firm date by which I would need to be pitching.

[00:03:39] Megan Eilers: That was one of the offerings at the Kawaii Writers Conference that we attended, knowing that there was a deadline. opportunity to pitch my work. I knew that I wanted to have something completed and ready to go. So I think that was largely a motivating factor. And then, of course, just having the educational opportunity and networking opportunity was the motivation to actually sign up.

[00:04:02] Megan Eilers: But it was helpful to bookend the time frame for completing it. 

[00:04:06] Nicole Meier: And Megan, I'm so impressed because you, like others on this call, pretty much wrote and polished your first draft within one year. Is that correct? 

[00:04:15] Megan Eilers: Yeah, that's right. I think it was just about nine months of solid work and then three or four more months there of editing.

[00:04:22] Megan Eilers: Yeah, 

[00:04:22] Nicole Meier: which is great, and we'll dive into that later, but just for people listening, that is to show what's possible. You know, sometimes people think, okay, I'll plan that in five years or ten years, but you really got focused and you had something to show for yourself when you got to the conference.

[00:04:38] Nicole Meier: Absolutely. Okay. Kelly, same question for you. Let's move on to your answer. 

[00:04:43] Kelly Kearsley: Okay. Hi. My name is Kelly Kirsley. I also write upmarket fiction, book club fiction. Like Megan, I liked the idea of the deadline for the conference for sure. I was a little bit ahead. I think I finished my novel. Let's be real. I finished it like a couple of times.

[00:04:58] Kelly Kearsley: It's been finished. But I had started the querying process, and I knew I would start the querying process before I went to Kauai. And so, what I was really looking forward to in Kauai was the chance to actually meet agents in person. Instead of kind of what feels like sending these query letters out into a void and wondering if you'll get a response.

[00:05:18] Kelly Kearsley: I wanted to hear from them in person what they thought and just meet them in the real world. So that was a huge motivating factor for me. 

[00:05:28] Nicole Meier: Okay. And then to tack onto that, Kelly, what else did you do to actually prepare? Was there anything that you kind of did ahead of time to be really present at the conference?

[00:05:38] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah, I think I took like a real practical approach to this conference. I signed up for the master class that was specifically about How to get your book published and how to query and then before that masterclass, I finished the book, finished a revision, wrote a query letter, developed a query strategy.

[00:05:57] Kelly Kearsley: And I had even like some of the ancillary assets ready, so like a synopsis and a bio, all that kind of stuff. So I was really coming in wanting to get feedback on what I already had versus kind of create it while I was there. 

[00:06:11] Nicole Meier: Yeah. That's great. Well prepared. And again, just like Megan, you really got focused over the summer.

[00:06:17] Nicole Meier: I just know this from working with you is that. You knew you wanted to have all of those things ready, so you said, okay, Summer, I'm really going to make sure the query letter is where I want it to be, the synopsis, the final chapters, as opposed to saying, well, I don't really know what goes in it, and I'll just wait and see.

[00:06:33] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, Holly, I'm moving on to you about what motivated you to attend, and what maybe did you do to prepare? 

[00:06:43] Holly Klein: Hi. Thank you. Um, Holly Klein, and I write literary fiction, and There were two big pieces of motivation for me in attending the conference. One was to understand it's one thing to sit and enjoy the exercise of writing.

[00:07:00] Holly Klein: It's quite another to learn the business landscape through which you're going to launch this work at some point. And so I was curious to learn about the publishing industry and the business of writing in order to inform efficient use of my work and time in the writing process. Thanks. So that was definitely an outcome of the conference.

[00:07:23] Holly Klein: A second piece that was helpful to me was finding my identity as a writer and being able to speak about it in a public space. In small groups, in this critique group, that was a great place to start to develop my identity and talk about my work in a cohesive way and see myself as a writer. It was a big step forward to bring that into a fairly sophisticated community of successful writers in the professional sphere.

[00:07:55] Holly Klein: So that exercise was daunting and fruitful. 

[00:07:59] Nicole Meier: Yeah, I love that you brought that up because it is one thing to say to very few number of people at home. I'm working on a manuscript, I think I'm a writer, I think this is the genre, but then to really say, I have to go and introduce myself to the greater world as an author, I have to explain what I'm writing, I have to sort of put myself in some kind of a box, if you will, to explain the genre.

[00:08:23] Nicole Meier: And Holly, I'm going to put you on the spot, but I also So, I was with you and asked you to read your first or second chapter out loud to a group before you went, because I wanted you to get over the jitters of that. And can you talk a little bit about whether or not that was helpful? 

[00:08:40] Holly Klein: When Nicole asked me to do that, she said, I'm going to mean mommy you for just a second and ask you to read this chapter.

[00:08:48] Holly Klein: And she was so wise in doing that because I read it and my voice shook and I turned I read, and I cried, and it was beautiful. And so I have that process, at least for me, for this writer, bringing my creative self and that vulnerable self where true art and beauty can live, can be kind of painful and very vulnerable.

[00:09:09] Holly Klein: So that was incredibly helpful. Attendant to that, Nicole, is when, and I think our friends here had similar experiences, In those first few introductions at the beginning of the conference when these battle axes of the industry are sitting down with us and are asking us, so what, you know, tell me about your work.

[00:09:27] Holly Klein: And they can see immediately that this is a very difficult question. People were so kind, they knew, they like set up the net. And gave you a warm look and just knew that it was like your first time and were so kind and would ask a couple times so you could do it a couple times. It was a really supportive scene for that.

[00:09:48] Nicole Meier: Oh, I love knowing that, Holly. That is so great. And usually that's the case, you know, when I mean mommied you into reading out loud. You were in a safe space then because the people were with were trusted. And then when you go to these writing conferences. Yes, there's a bit of, I don't know, these people or some people might be a touch competitive, but for the most part, I would say it is a safe space because everybody is in the same vulnerable position of sharing their work.

[00:10:14] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Very cool. Okay. Christy. Hi, Christy. I am excited to hear your answer about what motivated you to go, and then is there anything in particular you did to prepare? 

[00:10:27] Christi: I am also extremely goal oriented, and the second that I had other buddies that committed to going to the Writers Conference made it a much more compelling offer than having to go at it alone.

[00:10:42] Christi: So having these three hold me up and keep me accountable all through the long grinding process and then getting ready for it was quite the huge support system that I needed in order to be able to pull it off. To get ready for it. I hired a wonderful marketing agency to help me establish my author platform and I got such great guidance of how I could get over, Holly is right, answering that question of like, so what do you write?

[00:11:15] Christi: And you literally have been practicing. Megan helped us organize and we practiced with each other and we had the answer. But the second somebody asked you in real life, this question. It's like, you're just staring at the headlights like, Oh my God, what do I write? I don't even know what my name is. So it was A terrifying and wonderful experience, but the, Holly's right, the supportive community that we found there that just was amazing and was there baby stepping us along the way was more than I could have ever imagined it to be.

[00:11:49] Nicole Meier: Oh, cool. Okay, thanks for the plug, by the way. That, for anyone listening, she was talking about BookWorks, which is a co creation I have with my partner, and we help writers. Build their author platform and also have a better, clear strategy of how to pitch agents. But I love knowing that, Christy, because first of all, you have the other three here that were going with you, and you have a very forward facing, busy, high up corporate job.

[00:12:16] Nicole Meier: And I can only imagine that having other people say, okay, I'm going to meet you there. We've got this date. We've got our plane tickets, is helpful to you because you could have gotten sucked into your business. other world and just let the time pass. Is that right? That's absolutely 

[00:12:30] Christi: right. I read an article or podcast is something like your future self will thank you for the decisions that you make.

[00:12:37] Christi: And so it was one of those cases where my future self really did thank for making that decision so early in the year. Cause it really did help drive the accountability piece of it. And I set milestones along the way. I was not as dutiful as Kelly and Megan in their timeline, so I finished right before we left, but I still made it.

[00:12:59] Christi: We were editing in real time, but yeah, it was so amazing to have that as a, you know, the carrot to lead you to a goal that you always wanted to accomplish and that there was some place in the future that kept you accountable for that. 

[00:13:13] Nicole Meier: Yeah, I love it. And I love that you said your future self will thank you.

[00:13:18] Nicole Meier: I mean, this is going to air at the top of 2025, and I want all the writers listening to think about, just close your eyes and say, what will my future self thank me for? What decision can I make now? Maybe it's signing up for a conference that doesn't even happen for nine more months. Maybe it's taking that step forward of reading something out loud.

[00:13:38] Nicole Meier: Whatever it is, your future self will thank you because every step is a step forward. Yeah, awesome. Okay, so far I'm loving everyone's answers. I'm going to jump on to the next question. So, Megan, let's start with you. What was the most surprising or unexpected thing you experienced during the conference?

[00:13:57] Megan Eilers: Ooh, that's a great question. In a total transparency kind of moment, I think the most surprising thing, and I know we, the four of us discussed this while we were in Hawaii, was the fact that the entire process, while wonderful and so informative, was thoroughly exhausting. We were so fortunate to have this writing group that we formed before we ever went to Kauai, before we ever signed up, and had each other's backs.

[00:14:28] Megan Eilers: And the gratitude we all expressed for that is just ridiculous. Like, we were just a little sob quadrant just crying over our love for each other. But I think the thing that was just shocking was at the end of every day, we needed downtime. You're on, you're presenting yourself, your work, in such a vulnerable way.

[00:14:52] Megan Eilers: And I think as first time conference attendees, We went all in. We were there. We were present. Obviously, we were exhausted from having put the work together, but then having to present it and engage with people, networking from 7. 30 in the morning at breakfast to like 6 at night until we went to dinner, so I think kind of tailspinning that into advice.

[00:15:17] Megan Eilers: Make sure that you don't overcommit yourself to continuing some of those socializing efforts or continuing to try and adventure off site for the sake of your sanity, find some respite time, do the things that bring you some comfort and some calm. Because the conference is long, I mean, the Quaker Writers Conference, for anyone listening who doesn't know, with the masterclass and the conference itself, is a week long.

[00:15:45] Megan Eilers: Which is amazing and wonderful, but it is a lot. And we were going to sleep at like 8pm. Yeah, so, you know, you're going, going, going, and you're on, and it's a lot, and you need that downtime. 

[00:16:00] Nicole Meier: Yeah, okay, that is such a good point and so relatable because some people are extroverts on this call and some people are introverts, but I went to the WFWA conference in Chicago whenever that was a year or two ago.

[00:16:13] Nicole Meier: And I did so much peopling, as they would say, that I was like almost in the fetal position by the end of every day because I was talking and networking. I was teaching there too, and by the time we got to the airport, my poor client, I went to the airport with one of my clients, and she wanted to talk in the backseat of the Uber, and I was just like, I can't talk.

[00:16:33] Nicole Meier: I just, I have nothing left in me. There's no gas in the tank, in the best of ways, but you really need to recharge your battery in between. And I love that Megan, like, really don't overcommit yourself. You guys did a lot. You were kind of like, they're on a mission, taking classes and pitching and networking, but I'm glad you didn't do, like, some sort of skydiving event on your free time or anything.

[00:16:57] Nicole Meier: Okay, Kelly, let's move on to you. So what was the most surprising or unexpected thing when you were there? 

[00:17:03] Kelly Kearsley: I think the exhaustion, just per Megan's comment, just agreeing like that did catch me off guard and definitely someone who likes to cram a lot into a vacation, but this wasn't actually a vacation.

[00:17:15] Kelly Kearsley: The teeniest bit of advice there, I would say Particularly if you go to Kauai, just like be okay with the fact that you're not really going to Kauai. You're going to a hotel with a beautiful view, and you're going to have to come back to Kauai another time to have a great time in Kauai. Yeah. Because you are going to be pooped.

[00:17:36] Kelly Kearsley: But I think for me, probably the most, I don't know if this is surprising, but it was a big takeaway I had. And there is just a lot of myth and lore around agents and querying. And I think that so many of the writers that I met and myself included, it's a nerve wracking process to query. It is an overwhelming process.

[00:17:57] Kelly Kearsley: People are intimidated. And I think probably like the biggest takeaway was to, like I was saying before, to not just meet agents, but to hear what they're looking for and then to understand that they are just humans. They are doing a job. They're good at it, but we're also good at our jobs. And it honestly, like, it took out some of the tension that I felt around that process.

[00:18:20] Kelly Kearsley: And I really started to like, I really internalized, I think before people say like, don't take it personally if you get a rejection, you hear the agents talk about what they're needing to do. They are needing to get a book that they can sell, sell it to a publisher and that publisher wants it to sell.

[00:18:35] Kelly Kearsley: And so sometimes they're a little hemmed in, you know, they're looking for something very specific and you don't have it. And I think it just made it so much easier to divorce my sense of like, worth as a writer and not connected so much to what is happening in the query process when you could just meet these agents and be like, Oh, I just don't have what they're looking for.

[00:18:57] Kelly Kearsley: And I will have what someone is looking for. It was really invaluable, and then to just see them and smile at them and see that they're like normal people with kids and they want to talk about their dog, and they're super tired too. They're not these like untouchable people. 

[00:19:13] Nicole Meier: Which is such a good point. I mean, we all as writers have, Whoever wants to do traditional publishing, or at least consider it some phase of our writing career, is, we've looked up all these agents, maybe we've seen them speak somewhere, and we put them on this big pedestal because they are a gatekeeper.

[00:19:30] Nicole Meier: And it's almost like, a rock star. I think Kelly, you and I were talking to another person in the industry recently, and I was saying, honestly, queering and pitching is like the American idol for writers because at a conference, I mean, Kelly, you can talk about this more. They kind of either have a rope or closed doors and people are going in and out and it's like speed dating with agents.

[00:19:50] Nicole Meier: Some people are coming out elated. Some people are coming out crying. And if you've ever watched American Idol when people are waiting outside the door, a lot of times it's the same sort of feeling, and if you build that up in your head, you're gonna freak yourself out. But if you know these are just people, and they're doing their job, and they're looking for a book that they can sell, it puts you in a totally different headspace.

[00:20:10] Nicole Meier: Would you agree, Kelly? 

[00:20:12] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah, absolutely. And I think we all saw a lot of readers who were putting like so much weight onto these meetings, and then coming out either disappointed. Or sometimes really happy. And when I say these meetings, this conference had three, you could sign up for like up to three pitches with agents, which is I think something that makes this conference a little bit unusual.

[00:20:35] Kelly Kearsley: So yeah, just understanding that you will find the right agent at the right time. And I think it also gave me like a deep sense of patience where before I've just been like pedal to the metal, get this done. Um, I've now just. observe the process and that tension where the art and the business are meeting and understanding that I'll find my place in that little Venn diagram at some point.

[00:21:00] Nicole Meier: Yeah. 

[00:21:01] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. But it may not be able to fully control when that is. So you just stay persistent and stay with it. Such good advice. Such good 

[00:21:09] Nicole Meier: insight. Okay, Holly, we're jumping over to you about something unexpected when you're at the conference or something. Surprising. 

[00:21:17] Holly Klein: Two things were surprising. One was the quality and amount of coffee.

[00:21:21] Holly Klein: I would say . It was a persistent, I disappointment. Maybe bring your own coffee. There was no Kona Coffee in Hawaii. For some writers this might matter a lot to this one. It did. . There was no coffee. Seriously? There was, it was crazy. Oh, no. Okay, 

[00:21:43] Nicole Meier: that's shocking. That's not every conference. Usually there's coffee going on tap all the time.

[00:21:47] Holly Klein: Shocking. There was like a, the angry mob around an empty table where there should have been coffee. In seriousness, something that was surprising to me was the power that publishing agencies hold over what we experience culturally from literature and movies and series. And we got a really candid view about what goes on in these, you know, very siloed conference rooms.

[00:22:15] Holly Klein: And there's just a handful of them that create the zeitgeist that we all draw from. And that was fascinating to peel back and hear these folks up there, generally from New York, talk about, okay, so forest bathing is out and now we're doing this topic. And it was just culturally really fascinating and to look at your work.

[00:22:38] Holly Klein: through that lens in terms of what am I putting into the stream of life and taking away the fact that even if it is beautiful work, sometimes it's just a matter of luck and timing in terms of where it fits into what those businesses are deciding they're looking for at this moment. 

[00:22:58] Nicole Meier: Yeah, okay. And is it correct that you guys kind of listened in on some panels of publishers and, or agents that were saying I think there was a taste maker that was thrown in there too talking about.

[00:23:09] Nicole Meier: what people are looking for in the industry that they can sell. Not about you as a writer, but what can they sell. Is that correct? Exactly. Which is wild. And when you get to the publishing level with a traditional, you hear more of that. A lot of times, The marketing board weighs in, sometimes even before the editorial board.

[00:23:27] Nicole Meier: And that was wild to me, just knowing that, like, wow, marketing really has a much larger hand in all of this than I knew. 

[00:23:34] Holly Klein: They could say, for example, and hearing from agents talk about, you know, we have this beautiful work that's saleable, but they have their work to do, and if it's not the right time or the right topic or something that's already been similar has passed, that's just the business.

[00:23:49] Nicole Meier: Yeah, I'm so happy you brought that up, Holly, and I don't want listeners to be discouraged and think, well, I got to write to the trends, or I got to write what's going to be selling. Because first of all, I've talked about this on the podcast before, that never works. Please, if you are going to listen to anything I say, don't write to trends, because by the time you do it, that trend has come and gone.

[00:24:06] Nicole Meier: And it's also not the joyful thing to do. I don't want to write what I think people want to hear, I want to write the story that's on my heart. I know all of you guys agree with that. So, conferences are great in so many ways, but it can be a little hard to say, oh, wow, the marketing people or the tastemakers or whomever are kind of saying what they're looking for and sometimes that doesn't fit what we're writing.

[00:24:28] Nicole Meier: I get that. Christy, what's this question bringing up for you about what was unexpected? 

[00:24:34] Christi: There were two things that came up for me. One, being in my mid 40s. somewhat successful in my first career. It's really hard to do something new and to have a lot of grace for yourself as you're learning at this stage in my life.

[00:24:52] Christi: And a little bit to like, I think it also led at least to my own personal exhaustion of in real time, taking in information, trying to absorb your future hopes and dreams that are in this process, who you are as a person, like it's a lot that you're processing in real time. And again, all the gratitude in the world for these three ladies who were there with me, uh, because those first couple of days were really difficult for me.

[00:25:22] Christi: in that learning process. So I think that was the biggest takeaway. The second is a little bit of what Holly just mentioned too, of I also didn't write a book that was trying to lean into any trends, but you understand more of the commercial angle of the traditional publishing world and how your art goes into this machine.

[00:25:45] Christi: And then how do people talk about your art inside of this commercial machine. What are you doing to help facilitate that? Because there are many ways to describe art and trying to find the right way to describe your art inside of this machine was fascinating to walk through that process and hear it from different angles.

[00:26:09] Christi: And it doesn't mean you have to change what you write. I mean, we went through several rounds of like, well, I could describe my book like this, or I could describe it like this. Which one sounds better? Which one sounds easier for me to say out loud? Which one is embarrassing? There was all of these things, and you're in real time going through the motions of this.

[00:26:27] Christi: So fascinating all around and then to have not enough coffee to support us through these mind blowing exercises was also deeply disturbing. 

[00:26:38] Nicole Meier: Unbelievable about the coffee. I think that I'm just gonna think about that now. Holy cow, you guys. But you know, Christy, to be in all seriousness, yes, it is really fascinating and I'm gonna jump to Kelly here because we were talking and Kelly, I want you to kind of expand on this is.

[00:26:53] Nicole Meier: What you're saying, Christy, about how there's so many different ways to describe my book and then the marketing of how other people are talking about your art. And Kelly, the reason I'm pointing to you is that we talked about this at some point is that you even had to correct an agent or two when you were talking about comps, which are comparable titles for those listening.

[00:27:13] Nicole Meier: And they would say, Oh, that's a rom com or that's whatever. And they were reading the marketing blurb and you'd actually read the real book. And you said, Yeah, no, that wasn't a rom com at all. Am I even the same? I don't know if there's a rom com that 

[00:27:25] Kelly Kearsley: was your example. Yeah. In that particular conversation I had with an agent, she looked at one of my main comps and was like, I think it's a rom com.

[00:27:32] Kelly Kearsley: It's kind of like a dark comedy. Right. Rom. But her point, she was making a very smart point. Which was that the marketing blurbs for the book were highlighting the romance because that was a selling point. To me, and I think that this circles back to what everyone else was saying, you don't need to write to the market, and in fact you can't, unless you could write a book in like two weeks or something.

[00:27:57] Kelly Kearsley: But you can market your book to the market, if that makes sense. And it's funny because it's a little bit of, it's like a little mercenary, like you're looking to find the aspects of your book that are hot right now, while books have lots and lots of aspects. That agent to me was like, Hey, why don't you highlight The romance in your, and I have like a very light romantic, and so I'm not lying and saying it's a rom com, but in my book, I am calling out that there's like a burgeoning relationship.

[00:28:32] Nicole Meier: Yeah, because romance is hot right now, it's selling, and it will be selling, you know, the next year or two, so I get that. Interesting. Okay, such good answers, you guys. Now I'm going to flip it. We're going to start talking about the networking part of it. You guys talked a little bit about people you met or listening in, but I want to ask all of you, how did you approach networking with other writers, agents, or editors?

[00:28:57] Nicole Meier: And what tips do you have for those out there who find even the idea of this just so intimidating? So I'm going to start with Holly. 

[00:29:05] Holly Klein: I have a very practical piece to start with. And I was so grateful to be rooming with Kelly, who's got some expertise and background in the startup world, having a small piece of collateral, like a electronic business card that has your genre, your name, your website, and a picture, because you will meet so many people that.

[00:29:25] Holly Klein: There's fruitful interactions, people that want to help you, people that you want to read with, and having that piece of collateral ahead of time is great. So we did that on probably the second or third day, went back to the hotel room and made some things. But doing that ahead of time will not only prepare you best for all these conversations you're going to be practicing, but also give you something to make the most of all the relationships and the conversations you'll have.

[00:29:53] Nicole Meier: Awesome. Okay, that does surprise me that people are bringing back the hard copy business cards. Megan's, Megan's like rolling her eyes because honestly, you guys, I thought that that was dead, but you're saying that's in again and the electronic version? Megan, what were you gonna say? 

[00:30:08] Megan Eilers: Oh, just absolutely. I couldn't echo Holly's thoughts further on having a resource to do that is a fantastic solution.

[00:30:18] Megan Eilers: And whether it's a paper card, whether it's digital, you're working in an interaction setting that is full of varying degrees of technologically inclined people. So. The paper card is not a bad idea, and certainly faster if you're passing someone quickly in a hallway, uh, you know, exchanging phone numbers takes a few more seconds than that.

[00:30:47] Megan Eilers: And I know that several of us also exchange like social media accounts. So some people whose phone numbers I didn't obtain or email addresses were following each other on Instagram or whatever the case may be. Personally, for me, the piece of advice I guess I would give around networking and approaching it, I do not suffer from a fear of talking to strangers.

[00:31:09] Megan Eilers: So this is, this is probably relative to your life experience. But I think the number one thing that I did, and we all participated in, was signing up for the meal plan. Now, this is very specific, I think, to the Kauai Writers Conference because of its length, because of its location. So I don't know how relevant this is if you're going to another conference, but The meal plan at this juncture included breakfast and lunch, and it was on site and just down the hall from where the masterclasses happened, from where the pitching happened, from where the conference sessions happened.

[00:31:46] Megan Eilers: So, It was a great opportunity to have a very casual interaction with writers. You could sit, you could comment on the quality or lack thereof of the coffee, and that's a great way to start that engagement. You don't have to start with, what do you write? Although, of course, that inevitably comes up, but it lessens the pressure.

[00:32:10] Megan Eilers: They had round tables set up. You're not face to face with one individual. I think one of the most wonderful things about the vast dynamic of everybody there, there was certainly people you'd see day one, you'd sit with them again day two, but people would join you randomly and it gave the opportunity to really mix up who you were interacting with.

[00:32:33] Megan Eilers: And I think there's always going to be a balance between introverts and extroverts and taking that opportunity to be like, Hi, have you met my friend Christy? Because I will gladly pull along my introverted friends to a conversation that I've started. So if you can go with a buddy, that's even better, but at the very least.

[00:32:52] Megan Eilers: Try and make a couple contacts with people who are going to envelop you. And I think everyone was super welcoming, so that helped. 

[00:32:58] Nicole Meier: That's awesome. Okay. Kelly, I know you were raising your hand when I was laughing about the business cards making a comeback. What were you going to say? 

[00:33:06] Kelly Kearsley: I was going to say that Holly and I spent some time looking up a digital business card and I was so stoked.

[00:33:14] Kelly Kearsley: Okay. We made one. Okay. And I was like, I haven't had a business card for a decade. Like, I didn't know that there was a digital business card. No, no one could figure out how to QR code it. Like, this is a notebook and pen crowd. Like they want a piece of paper and people are just like, Oh, you don't have like a paper copy?

[00:33:34] Kelly Kearsley: Like they were disappointed at me. So I would next time make a paper card. Just had your name and your website and your contact, maybe your genre on it. Oh, 

[00:33:45] Nicole Meier: my gosh. Okay. Well, aside from that, Kelly, was there anything else you did to network even with an editor or agent or anyone sort of not just sitting at your lunch table?

[00:33:56] Kelly Kearsley: Yes, and no. So I think the important thing to know about this particular conference, I maybe thought that I would be networking with tons of agents who are out in the mix. I think that this conference. Ladies, correct me if I'm wrong, probably like the ratio of writers to agents would be like, I'm going to guess it's five to one or higher.

[00:34:19] Kelly Kearsley: The agents are a small group. They are being hunted. Oh my gosh. 

[00:34:25] Megan Eilers: And 

[00:34:26] Kelly Kearsley: they're hiding. And they're hiding. Yeah, they are lovely, and I wanted to actually respect that this is also an industry conference for them. Like, they are coming to see their colleagues who they don't get to see, and have their own kind of networking that they're doing with both writers, but also with like their peers.

[00:34:46] Kelly Kearsley: And so I did a lot less, I was like real reticent to just approach an agent at a table. So there was that. That said, I think it's a different kind of networking and this kind of speaks to what Christy was talking about before, how this is like you're in a new field doing a new thing. In the past, like if I network for career stuff, I'm usually going to a networking event with like a very distinct offer that I have and also potentially like a very defined need.

[00:35:14] Kelly Kearsley: So I'm like going in maybe looking for. And I'm offering my services, and it's clear to me what I'm looking for. At this particular conference, I was like, what am I offering, right? And what do I need, you know? And so it didn't feel like traditional networking. And I think actually, once I realized that, it's more about making connection and like making true human connection.

[00:35:40] Kelly Kearsley: Like you're looking for friends, you want support. The best thing that came out is I met a ton of amazing writers who I get to know now who I'm following on Instagram and keeping up with via email and I don't need anything from them except I sure hope they keep in touch with me because I want them to succeed.

[00:35:57] Kelly Kearsley: And they don't know anything from me, other than to like, tell me that they thought something I put on Instagram was funny. And that's fine. We will all become a community because of this. And it's not as maybe transactional as like the word networking suggests. 

[00:36:15] Nicole Meier: Yeah, such a good point that it's not as transactional as, you know, you've been in the startup world forever, Kelly.

[00:36:20] Nicole Meier: So you're used to totally different connecting opportunities. It is. And I was just thinking about all the people that, you know, this is a small community. The writer community, the fiction writing community is a small community at the end of the day. And I was thinking about all the same people I have seen over the years at conferences or retreats, whether they're an agent, editor, or writer, and you see them again.

[00:36:40] Nicole Meier: You know, unless they leave the conference and drop out altogether, you will see these people again. And it's amazing to expand your community. Okay, Christy, I do want to hear, because you also network in your business life, what about just either networking or connecting or even coming out of, you're a self proclaimed introvert.

[00:36:58] Nicole Meier: So coming out of that. and just connecting with someone. Can you share a little bit about that? 

[00:37:05] Christi: Yes, and Megan is right. You have to bring your extroverted buddy along with you to pave the way. So again, extremely grateful that Megan was like, and let me introduce you to my friend who's over here just sitting quietly to herself.

[00:37:20] Christi: So that was amazing. I can 10 out of 10 highly recommend that for the other introverted people out there too. The other thing that came up, we randomly found ourselves at an impromptu happy hour one afternoon with an agent, and she was speaking about a client of hers, writer that was also very introverted, didn't like to get out, and she said the one advice that she gave was ambition over fear, and that really struck a chord with me of if you are ambitious in your writing career and you're really wanting to like put yourself out there, then you really have to look at Is the ambition of being a writer going to get you over the fear of sitting and being quiet?

[00:38:06] Christi: And so I've had a lot of time to reflect on that and how I may approach our next Writer's Conference together as a writing four. 

[00:38:16] Nicole Meier: I love that. Two amazing nuggets. You guys have given so many amazing nuggets, but two like quotes, if you will. Are your future self will thank you and then ambition over fear.

[00:38:27] Nicole Meier: Those are two things that we can remind all of ourselves that it doesn't matter what type of writer you are, what type of personality you are. Those are things that I want to write down and put in my office right now. Really cool. Okay, I do have two more questions. I want to just talk for hours with you guys, but I'm going to try and keep this fairly tight.

[00:38:45] Nicole Meier: So I do want to know if there was a moment for interviewing. I want you guys to raise your hand if something pops into your head. Was there a moment during the conference that made you feel particularly inspired or validated as a writer? And then share what that was like. So it could be something very small.

[00:39:02] Nicole Meier: Or it could be something more concrete, like your actual words on a page. Did anything validate? Yeah, Holly, I see you raising your hand. I had a 

[00:39:11] Holly Klein: little crisis about an hour before my first agent meeting, and I'd been pacing around and trying to memorize exactly what you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to go into it.

[00:39:25] Holly Klein: And what I was going to wear, and how to do this thing, and it, it did not, I was putting on somebody else's clothes. And I had this little crisis, and I went back up to the room, got my swimsuit on, and I went and jumped in the ocean. And just kind of control all delete, like got back to like, who am I, I'm just going to shoot my shot from who I am, and try to like, Make this more authentic and so I kind of did that restart Jumped in the ocean for just a few minutes went back up showered put on like my favorite.

[00:40:04] Holly Klein: It's the clothing that's perhaps ridiculous, but very authentic to me. Got my yellow jumpsuit on, and I went and I just changed the pitch, and I just came with my passion, and maybe changed the format a little bit than what was prescribed. And it was a really fruitful, successful meeting, and I felt great about it.

[00:40:26] Holly Klein: And even had it not been, it was what I needed to do. And that turning point that was super validating that I'm not here to make a widget, I'm here to do my thing. And it felt really good. 

[00:40:40] Nicole Meier: Amen. Honestly, if anyone takes anything away from that is be yourself. Go for a walk, jump in the water, stick your head out the car window when it's driving, reset.

[00:40:54] Nicole Meier: Because we are so tired of being put in a box and what you said, the prescribed. You're there to be you, you're there to follow your dream, not your agent's dream, not the publisher's dream, not the editor's dream. Your dream. Well said. Okay. Who wants to follow that up? Yeah. 

[00:41:11] Megan Eilers: Megan. I think this is an appropriate follow up because I also kind of required a control alt delete moment.

[00:41:19] Megan Eilers: During the agent pitching, I also signed up for three and the very first one out of the gate did not go the way that I intended. So, Ultimately, what I realized after the fact, after some self reflection and my heart rate returned to something within the realm of normal, I realized that it had not gone negatively, it was an opportunity for revision.

[00:41:42] Megan Eilers: But I think What was so validating after the fact was my very next pitch, which was less than two hours later. Some of the points that had been brought up as possible opportunities for revision by the first agent were the selling points for the second agent. And I think one thing that the four of us really noted while we were there was.

[00:42:13] Megan Eilers: The importance of needing an agent and going the traditional publishing path, you have to find the person in an agent who is for you and that relationship is just as important as the end goal. And, obviously we're all still, you know, sitting here waiting in limbo, but it reset my mind to recognize that if someone can see the vision by virtue of the pitch that I've created, the query letter I've drafted, the pages I've provided, And that comes across in that interaction, that is more likely my person, simply by virtue of the fact that like, they understand my mission behind why I wrote it.

[00:42:58] Megan Eilers: Because I did write it for me, I didn't write it for a trend. And so that just 180'd my entire perspective. Of feeling like, yes, okay, I can be confident in what I'm doing because it's the thing that I want and that may not match up with every single agent, that may not match up with every single publisher, and that's okay.

[00:43:23] Megan Eilers: And I think it's very similar to Holly, but I think it was really validating to have that, frankly, a big cut down to my confidence and then bolstered, like, beyond my wildest dreams soon thereafter. So I guess I encourage anyone in attendance who maybe has a negative moment, feel it, experience it, but try and let it go and don't let it color that next one, because that next one may be the one that's for you.

[00:43:52] Nicole Meier: So relatable and beautifully said. I really love that you shared that, Megan. Everyone's gonna go through that. I don't care how great of a writer or networker you are, everyone is gonna go through that. Oh, great. That was a terrible pitch. I got to move on to the next or that wasn't me. I'm gonna change my clothes and come downstairs who I am, you know, really cool.

[00:44:13] Nicole Meier: Okay, before I move on to the next question, do Kelly or Christy want to add anything about anything that made you feel validated as a writer? I mean, first of all, I am going to interject and brag for all of you because you guys aren't doing it, is that you did get one or more requests for your full manuscripts and people excited about your work.

[00:44:31] Nicole Meier: So other than that, Christy or Kelly, a yay or a nay? Yeah, Christy. We 

[00:44:37] Christi: had the opportunity. We almost reluctantly didn't take it. Sam Rushdie was there speaking. And we were tired for all the aforementioned reasons and we thought we could go back to our room and take a nap or we could go hear an incredible writer and thankfully we made the right choice there.

[00:44:56] Christi: But there is several points he made and one was, uh, that I find funny and super relatable is writing's a mess and you have to fight your way through the messy parts. And also, we're doing this out of a labor of love, and if love isn't the intention through it all, then you should reconsider what you're doing, and those two things reigned so true, that it was sort of, why are we in this, and why are we doing this, is not accolades, it is really just the art of connection of stories for others, and bringing that back into the commercial angle and how are we selling and it was like we are doing this as a labor of love through connection and service to others.

[00:45:39] Christi: Beautiful. I love it. 

[00:45:41] Nicole Meier: Who knew, Salman Rushdie, who knew you were going to come away with that from the Writers Conference, but I really love that. Cher, thank you, Christy. Okay, Kelly, anything you want to add or you want to answer the next question? 

[00:45:54] Kelly Kearsley: I think the only small thing I'd add is just like when you go to these Writers Conference, do go listen to the poets.

[00:46:02] Kelly Kearsley: And the writers and sit there and just absorb the art and the beauty and remember that we're here to get our souls filled and be inspired and to like cry by what you heard and to laugh and that the whole business machine of it can be really overwhelming. But I don't think any of us got into writing because we just wanted to write the world's best query letter.

[00:46:28] Kelly Kearsley: We got into it because we love writing and what it brings us. And so I don't know if it was validating, but I think it was a really good reminder to be like really present at a conference for some of those things that are just truly about the art and the beauty and to live that part of it a little bit and let yourself just enjoy it.

[00:46:47] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Really good advice. Be present after why you started in the first place. Something you want to do and enjoy. Yeah, I love that. Okay, Kelly, you just offered me a perfect segue into my final question for you all. Is what advice would you give to those who have never attended a conference or are thinking about attending a conference?

[00:47:08] Nicole Meier: What could you share with them? 

[00:47:10] Megan Eilers: Megan? The thing that I'm most grateful for was attending once I had more or less a completed work and had taken a SAVITA query letter and understood my story in a way that I could convey it, although I certainly stumbled through conveying it. I felt as prepared as I possibly could, I think, and going in with that really, as a result, drove me to be less nervous.

[00:47:43] Megan Eilers: I think the conference felt a bit like a treat at the end of a really hard journey. Nicole, I will divulge your secret that you keep a candy drawer when you write and you treat yourself to a little something sweet when you're successful at getting the number of words out or whatever. And this was the proverbial candy drawer.

[00:48:03] Megan Eilers: It felt like obviously it was work. It was hard. It was draining. It was wonderful, it was inspiring, but it was this culmination of the work that we'd put in. And so I think going in with that sense of like, I've got this going on, like, I know what I'm doing here, why I'm here. 

[00:48:24] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Very cool. Holly, do you have anything you want to give a little piece of advice to someone listening?

[00:48:30] Holly Klein: Ride the ride. I think humility and a sense of adventure and it's just the organic process. That makes it really interesting. And that includes the ups and the downs. Creative life is an adventure by design. And so going into it with humility and a balance between preparation and an open mind and an open heart to unexpected aspects has made it joyful.

[00:48:59] Nicole Meier: Yeah, super cool. We all need to tell ourselves, remind ourselves, ride the ride, seriously, rather than make sure you're perfect. Make sure that you reach that perfect agent or editor or publisher, like just ride the creative ride. So good. Okay, Christy, one last bit of good inspiration for our listeners.

[00:49:20] Christi: It's not as scary as you think it's going to be. There were so many warm and welcoming souls there that it was refreshing. We, earlier in the year, went to go hear our dear friend Anne Lamont, and she offered us a nugget at that time of you don't have that kind of time to worry about things that are inconsequential.

[00:49:40] Christi: And it also sort of like ushered us into the Kawhi Writers Conference of you don't have that kind of time to be scared about it. There's nothing to lose. Go live your artist's life whenever your heart calls that for you. 

[00:49:54] Nicole Meier: Ugh, that just makes me want to cry. Seriously, so good. Okay, Kelly, you gotta wrap us up with a final 

[00:50:01] Kelly Kearsley: tidbit.

[00:50:02] Kelly Kearsley: I think maybe a good final tidbit is while you're there, just pay attention to what you need and take care of yourself. If you need to skip a presentation that you were looking forward to because what you really need is a nap, don't beat yourself up about it. Just pay attention to how you're feeling. I think I was a little surprised at the emotion of the conference.

[00:50:24] Kelly Kearsley: It's different than a business conference. Your work's a little closer to your heart, so having a snack. Be very simple. Go in for a swim. Whatever you need. 

[00:50:35] Nicole Meier: Well, that was beautiful, and I think that is representative not only of attending a writer's conference, but attending your own writer's journey.

[00:50:43] Nicole Meier: Those are all really insightful bits of wisdom from you guys. I want to thank you so much for coming again on my podcast. You guys know I adore you. I want to tell the listeners out there that you can check the show notes if you would like to follow along on these four writers journeys. I will give a little bit of information about them.

[00:51:02] Nicole Meier: And thank you so much, you guys. We'll do it again because you're just one of my faves. Okay, listeners, we'll see you next time. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.

[00:51:17] Nicole Meier: If you want to check out my coaching programs for fiction writers, visit NicoleMeier. com. That's M E I E R. And if you liked this episode, I'd love you to take a minute to leave a rating and review for this podcast. This will help more writers like you to discover the show and to get going on their writing journey.

[00:51:37] Nicole Meier: Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, happy writing, everyone.