57. Nurture Your Mindset: How to Move Through Roadblocks with special guests

For the next three episodes, I'm doing something special. Recently I had the Joy of gathering with 15 of my book coaching friends, an inspiring group of thoughtful, compassionate coaches and editors who are all deeply invested in helping writers like you bring their stories to life. We spent time setting intentions supporting one another and talking about the many ways we can uplift the writers we work with.

And as we talked, I couldn't help but think, what if I could bring their wisdom and encouragement straight to you? So that's exactly what this three part series is all about. Over the next three episodes, in these round table style conversations, you'll hear insights, guidance, and heartfelt advice to help you write forward with clarity and confidence.

You'll notice a variety of skill sets and focuses among the group. Some specialize in memoir, some specialize in children's books and others while coaching adult fiction. Bring a unique perspective to the work. I hope you'll grab a notebook, settle in, and soak up the wisdom these writing coaches have to share.

Links to guests from this episode:

Suzy Vadori

Stephanie Dethlefs

Joanne Haines

Dani Abernathy

Transcript

STEPS TO STORY EP 57 - Nuture Your Mindset: How to Move Through Roadblocks with special guests

[00:00:00] Nicole Meier: For the next three episodes, I'm doing something special. Recently I had the Joy of gathering with 15 of my book Coaching Friends, an inspiring group of thoughtful, compassionate coaches and editors who are all deeply invested in helping writers like you bring their stories to life. We spent time setting intentions supporting one another and talking about the many ways we can uplift the writers we work with.

[00:00:25] Nicole Meier: And as we talked, I couldn't help but think. What if I could bring their wisdom and encouragement straight to you? So that's exactly what this three part series is all about. Over the next three episodes, in these round table style conversations, you'll hear insights, guidance, and heartfelt advice to help you write forward with clarity and confidence.

[00:00:47] Nicole Meier: You'll notice a variety of skillset and focuses among the group. Some specialize in memoir, some specialize in children's books and others while coaching adult fiction. Bring a unique perspective to the work. I hope you'll grab a notebook, settle in, and soak up the wisdom these writing coaches have to share.

[00:01:07] Nicole Meier: And a little behind the scenes tidbit. My podcast mic broke the day we were set to record, but sometimes you just have to roll with it. So with a little improvisation and a lot of heart, we made it happen. Let's begin.

[00:01:29] Nicole Meier: Welcome to Steps to Story. This season I'm focusing on helping you grow as a writer and as an author. I'm Nicole Meier, multi published author and certified book coach here to guide you on strengthening your story and getting it out into the world. This season we'll explore ways to overcome the challenges that hold writers back from breaking through creative blocks to fine tuning your story structure and navigating the publishing world with confidence.

[00:01:58] Nicole Meier: Wherever you are in your journey, consider this your supportive space to find clarity, direction, and encouragement. Let's take the next step in your story together.

[00:02:12] Nicole Meier: Hi steps to story listeners. Welcome back. I am excited to welcome you to part two in my series of kind of behind the scenes with book coaches. I. Today is all about mindset, and I have four wonderful writing coaches with me, and I would love for them to introduce themselves. So Susie, why don't you start?

[00:02:30] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Thanks for having us, 

[00:02:31] Suzi: Nicole. I'm Susie Vidori. I am an author, I'm an editor. I'm also a book coach, and I just really believe that everybody out there that feels called to write a story can do it. It's not about talent, and I love, love, love helping them get that story that's alive in their minds onto the page.

[00:02:49] Suzi: Awesome. 

[00:02:51] Stephanie: I am Stephanie Delas. Thanks for having me here. And I'm a writer and a writing coach, and I work with writers to help them get the stories that are on their hearts, out of their heads, and onto the page. Great. 

[00:03:06] Joanne: I'm really excited to be here, Nicole, and to be with these beautiful people. My name is Joanne Haynes.

[00:03:13] Joanne: I live in Anchorage, Alaska. And I'm scary Grid certified editor and an author accelerator, certified book coach and fiction nonfiction. I primarily work with full manuscripts and revisions, and I love to be in relationship with authors, so I'm really excited to be here to talk about mindset. Great. 

[00:03:33] Dani: Hi, I am Danny Abernathy.

[00:03:34] Dani: I am a book coach and an Enneagram teacher, and I help deep thinkers and feelers like myself, write the stories I need to tell so the readers can feel seen and can see others. 

[00:03:46] Nicole Meier: Okay, well, let's just get on into it. Now that you guys have introduced yourself. I. We all know that writing a novel is not just about craft.

[00:03:54] Nicole Meier: There's so much mindset behind it. And I would love to hear from each of you today, your thoughts on mindset for the writer, any tips you have, what's coming up for you when you're first working with writers in terms of setting the right tone for mindset. And Susie, I think I wanna start with you. Yeah, that's great.

[00:04:11] Nicole Meier: Because. 

[00:04:12] Suzi: I can tell you that mindset absolutely does matter. It's not about talent necessarily or how much craft, you know. I mean, you have to learn those things. Yes. But I can tell you when I meet a writer and I talk with them about their book, whether or not they're gonna go the distance. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're gonna get a six figure deal or whatever that is, whatever their goals are for that book, I can tell because many writers will.

[00:04:39] Suzi: Lull themselves into thinking that they're just writing for themselves. And that's great. If you're just writing for yourself and your family, that's amazing. But if you dig deep, most writers actually secretly hope that even though they're writing that for themselves, that somebody's gonna come along and stumble upon this some magical person and read it and be this influencer and share it and love it, and share it and all of these things.

[00:05:02] Suzi: And if you don't, I. Realize that for yourself, that you actually really hope that somebody is one day gonna read this. It's really hard to put the work in, to make the book as good as you know it can be. 

[00:05:15] Nicole Meier: Right? Yeah. I really like that. Know your goal, know yourself, and don't be afraid to step into your goal.

[00:05:22] Nicole Meier: I think that's something that people, it's hard for people to say out loud, right? Yeah. Admit it to yourself. It's okay. 

[00:05:29] Stephanie: Yeah. Okay, Stephanie. Hi. Hi. Yeah, I totally agree with what Susie is saying, and a lot of times people, especially newer writers, think that there is a right way to do it. So they spend a lot of time thinking about or researching or going to author talks or whatever, like how do they do it?

[00:05:51] Stephanie: Because that must be the right way. And the thing that I say, I mean, this is the hill I'm gonna die on probably is there's not a right way to write. There's only your way to write. And whatever your way is, is what is right for you. And it might not even be right from one project to the other. Every project has its own vibe too.

[00:06:15] Stephanie: So there's kind of this sense of curiosity and playfulness that has to happen, not just with the story itself or the poem or whatever it is, but the process as well. Like what's today going to bring? Oh, today brought a lot of stubbornness. Yeah. Yeah. In my head. Okay. That's okay. We can set that aside.

[00:06:38] Dani: Danny here. I totally agree. Stephanie. I work with a lot of. People who have marginalized identities in one way or another. So Bipoc, people with disabilities, neuro divergent, disabled. I already said that. Queer, that was one. And I. We go into writing a lot of times thinking that we have to do it in a particular way.

[00:06:58] Dani: You have to write every day. You have to power your book out like in a year. And you have to follow all these rules that honestly were made by and for rich white dudes, and not all of us are rich white dudes. And so you have to acknowledge yourself. You have to acknowledge. Your needs, like the demands of your life.

[00:07:22] Dani: Like if you can't get up at five every morning to write, that's fine. You don't need to get up at five every morning to write. There are other times to write. You don't have to write every day. I have recurrent major depression, so like twice a year for months at a time, I'm depressed. And I know I cannot be really productive during those times.

[00:07:43] Dani: Hmm. And so for me. Writing, productivity, anything. It happens in cycles and that is valid. I am still a writer. You are still a writer. Even if you can't follow those habits and methods and rules that other people pose to you. 

[00:08:00] Nicole Meier: I hope that you're taking notes. I always encourage you to do that because when I have guests on here, there's so many good nuggets of wisdom.

[00:08:06] Nicole Meier: But the one thing that Stephanie and Danny both hit on is there's no specific formula. It has to be the formula that works for you. And yes, there are formulas to help you not have hair pulling iterations on the backend to help you know, soothe your process. But it is about you, and I love that you both touched on that, is that we are unique individuals.

[00:08:26] Nicole Meier: We are unique creatives, and it is so important to lean into that, not only lean into your goal, but lean into knowing who you are as a creative. Yeah. Joanne, do you wanna add on 

[00:08:38] Joanne: to any of that? That is all really beautiful. I completely agree. I think structure's important, but we can get really tied up in it thinking that there is one way or we just haven't found that one way.

[00:08:49] Joanne: And I really try to help my clients balance structure with their own muse. I try not to let them forget their own inspiration and why they're telling this story. I honestly believe everybody's story matters. And that's what all of us are here to help writers do. And so I don't like to let structure mute your muse is what I say.

[00:09:12] Joanne: I love that. Yeah. And just a little anecdote, there was a Taylor Swift interview where she talked about how she writes songs and this one in particular, how it came to her as a glittery ball and she just kind of reached out and grabbed it and then she went on to say, and then I applied some structure to it and you know, and then went on to, you know, do her Taylor Swift thing, but.

[00:09:33] Joanne: It all starts as glitter. Let's not forget about our glitter. 

[00:09:37] Stephanie: It all starts as glitter. Oh my gosh, I love that so much. S here. I just wanted to highlight something that Joanne said, which is that your story matters. This is the other hill I'm gonna die on. If there are to. I think sometimes we get really well.

[00:09:57] Stephanie: Often we get really bogged down with why bother? No one's gonna wanna read this. There's a million other stories with the same premise. Whatever it is that your brain is telling you is wrong with it. It's coming from fear that no one's gonna care, and that comes from our innate need to belong. And so I think it's really important when.

[00:10:22] Stephanie: That voice in our minds, whatever you wanna call it, comes up and starts telling you that no one's gonna care. It's really important to notice that, not buy into it, but notice it and go, okay, brain, I hear that you're telling me that, but I'm gonna just set that thought aside for now and do it anyway because it matters to me and therefore it matters.

[00:10:49] Dani: Danny here, I love that Stephanie. So I think about story as a tree, and the author is the Roots of the Tree. And so every part of your story and your process and everything comes from you who you are as the author. And so the stronger your root system is. Mm-hmm. Like the more, what's the word for living?

[00:11:10] Dani: Alive? Yeah. Okay. Quite thriving. The more alive your tree is gonna be. And I think as you discover yourself, you discover your story and vice versa. And so the more you can acknowledge, like Stephanie said, and embrace who you are and what you want, and the things in your life that are connected to your story and are driving this story, driving your need to tell this story, despite that voice in your head.

[00:11:37] Dani: The better able you're gonna be to finish, the more you're gonna believe in your book, the more impactful it's gonna be. 

[00:11:43] Suzi: Yeah, absolutely. Danny, it's Susie here, and I just wanted to add to that because the more that you work on what Danny's talking about, your roots and your I. Own opinion, your voice, the more that's gonna come out in your book.

[00:11:55] Suzi: Yeah. And yes, I mean there are real and important things that you need to learn about craft in order to get that story into your reader's minds. But I could give you each of these people at this table here. I could give you each the outline and the entire plot for my next book, and we could all go away and write it.

[00:12:14] Suzi: And however long, I don't know how long it takes you to write a book, it takes me a while. I'm not very fast. We could all write that book and come back and we would have different books. And the reason is because what Danny said, everything in your book, every single thing, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily your own life or your own memoir, but even if you're writing fiction and not about your life, I.

[00:12:34] Suzi: Everything is either, maybe it's something you did, maybe it's something you didn't do. Maybe it's something you wanted to do. Maybe it's something you wish you'd done differently. Maybe it's something that you're just dreaming up, but it's still colored with your point of view and your own secret sauce.

[00:12:49] Suzi: And that whole thing about being a creative that we've been talking about is about getting that onto the page and making it your own. And if you just write a cookie cutter story and follow my template and follow that outline that I gave you. Yeah, you're right. That voice in your head might be right.

[00:13:07] Suzi: Nobody is going to read that, but if, right, but, but if you actually can let a little bit of that go and put yourself on the page, that is going to be amazing. 

[00:13:19] Joanne: This is Joanne. I just am feeling so inspired by what you guys are saying. I think what I'm hearing a lot in terms of mindset is to start with being brave.

[00:13:29] Joanne: Really start there. Really start with knowing the worth of your story. Then find a partner in that, whether it's a coach or an editor or another writer and be in relationship, I think is important too with with mindset and with stories in particular. 'cause we do all have that want to be known and to share our story.

[00:13:50] Joanne: So be in relationship in order to get there. 

[00:13:54] Nicole Meier: Okay. So far, I love what you guys are saying because we've talked about knowing yourself. Knowing your goals, knowing the process that works for you, not for your writer friend or your favorite author, what works for you. And also identifying your voice in the process.

[00:14:10] Nicole Meier: I like to think of my own writing as I didn't even learn my voice until I really started writing and focusing on the story I wanted to tell. So I think a good segue here is I wanted to talk to you all as writers now, and if you could go back to your earlier self when you were starting that first draft.

[00:14:27] Nicole Meier: Is there a mindset, you know, sort of idea that you would wish you could have infused into your process? I know for me, mine was rushing. I was a big rusher and it did not serve me. So I would go back and tell myself, Hey, this rushing thing doesn't necessarily work out. So yeah. Susie, is something coming up for you?

[00:14:46] Nicole Meier: Yeah, I think, 

[00:14:47] Suzi: I mean, I'm still kind of stuck on this hole. Thing about writing about yourself and everything is personal. All writing is personal, by the way. Even if you think that you're writing about something that if it's keeping you up at night, there's probably a reason. And I think one of the things I wish I'd known when I wrote my first book was that nobody was going to see it but me.

[00:15:10] Suzi: So a lot of the relationships in there, a lot of the things that happen to those characters, I mean, I am not those characters. They are not me. A lot of those relationships in there are fragments or, or snippets of people or things that have happened to me in my life, and I was terrified that people would see right through it.

[00:15:28] Suzi: And guess what? They didn't because they end up getting changed so much. Yeah. It's everything. It's so, I mean, I'm not using their names in exact circumstances and people just aren't gonna see what you think they are. So just let go and 

[00:15:41] Dani: put it on the page. So your mom didn't know you were writing about her?

[00:15:45] Dani: No, my mom is actually, she's not one of them. She's not one of them. But yeah, 

[00:15:50] Suzi: there, she'll probably listen to this podcast. I'm, I love. 

[00:15:53] Nicole Meier: Um, but yeah. Well, yeah, and as Joanne said, be brave. That is such a simple but powerful statement. Yeah. What else is coming up for you, 

[00:16:00] Stephanie: Stephanie? Yeah. Two things came up for me right away when you asked that question.

[00:16:05] Stephanie: The first one is not to take it so seriously. Mm. If I could put capital S's on that, I want it that in speech, it feels like there's this expectation that. If you're gonna be a writer, it's with a capital W. Yeah. And there's, like I said before, there's a right way to do it. And first drafts especially come out awful.

[00:16:31] Stephanie: It doesn't matter who you are, how many votes you've written, how prolific you are, it's going to be terrible. And so we have to cultivate a sense of playfulness and curiosity with that draft rather than like. Oh, now what was that sentence I just wrote? Delete. Yeah. And so that's the first thing. And the second thing is remembering that the fear that we feel about it, which some people call the inner critic, some people call it other things, but.

[00:17:05] Stephanie: It's just fear and that fear is coming from the primitive part of our brain that hasn't evolved. Yeah. So it's the exact same part of our brain that told the cave people to stay in the cave and not go out where the tiger is. So it's just a part of your brain that's trying to protect you. It just doesn't need to protect you.

[00:17:28] Stephanie: And I'll give this little. Really quick, I don't know if any of you have read or your listeners have read Big Magic by Liz Gilbert. Yes. She has this great letter that she writes to Fear is what she calls it as well, and she says, look, we're going on a road trip. I'm driving. Creativity is in the front seat.

[00:17:50] Stephanie: You can cuddle along, but you have to sit in the back and you can't give directions and you can't touch the radio. And I love that so much because it's playful and it's fun, and it's acknowledging that the inner critic or fear, whatever you wanna call it, is real. And it's not gonna go away. You can't conquer it.

[00:18:09] Stephanie: You can't vanquish it. You just need to embrace it and go, okay, I hear what you're saying. You're trying to protect me by telling me this is a stupid idea, and I'm gonna choose not to listen, but I hear you. Thank you for trying to protect me. 

[00:18:25] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Such a good reminder, and it's been a while since I've read that book, and I love that you brought that up because I forgot about that letter.

[00:18:32] Nicole Meier: I always talk about the most simple things are the most powerful. Another very simple thing that I would even do for myself is take a sticky note and write down curiosity and playfulness and put it up in my workspace to remind me whenever that fear rears its ugly head. This is your pass for freedom.

[00:18:49] Nicole Meier: This is your pass to play. This is your pass to have curiosity. And that sort of relieves the pressure a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody else have anything that they wanna tag onto that? 

[00:18:59] Joanne: Yeah, this is Joanne. I think I would just add that every point along the journey is a kind of a different process. So yeah, the first drafts are never gonna be good, but revision and editing is necessary.

[00:19:11] Joanne: And approaching that with playfulness and curiosity and then. Just as cliche as it might sound, just do the next right thing. What can you do next to improve something, whether it's a sentence or a scene, or just even a simple word, so not getting too overwhelmed by what's in front of you. 

[00:19:31] Nicole Meier: Yeah, 

[00:19:31] Dani: that's 

[00:19:32] Nicole Meier: good.

[00:19:32] Dani: Danny, here, I have a group coaching program, and so my writers get to see each other in the process of writing. I think it's so wonderful because we all get to points in our writing where we think we are terrible and we should not do this, and we will never figure out our story and it is terrible and we should just stop.

[00:19:52] Dani: But that is part of the process of writing. And so when you are in that place, a lot of times it means you're right on the verge of a breakthrough. Like you're gonna be on the other side soon and. It is okay if writing takes you a long time and it is okay if it is hard, and it is okay if like in your third revision you realize, oh my gosh, this is about something else.

[00:20:20] Dani: I know that for myself and a lot of my clients, like we are writing about our own experiences, like as Susie said, it's all personal. We're writing from our own like wounds a lot of times, or we're writing to answer our own questions, which are often like. Existential questions. The questions of life. Yeah.

[00:20:37] Dani: And so it is not easy to find answers to those questions, which is often what you're doing in fiction. And so if it's hard and long and complicated and confusing, that doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. That means you're doing something right, 'cause you're engaged in your story. Good. 

[00:20:52] Suzi: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:20:54] Suzi: Danny, it's Susie again and I just love that you know that we're actually exploring these existential things. I think one mistake that we sometimes make is trying to put everything that you think about everything in one book, and I see like you guys can't see these nodding and smiling, but Yeah, because it happens.

[00:21:12] Suzi: And just know that if you have all the things, keep it focused in that one book, try to address one existential crisis or question that you have. And then know that you might have other books in you and you can set that aside. It doesn't mean that you can never have that conversation with the world. It just means you might confuse your reader if you try to put everything in and you're gonna get overwhelmed.

[00:21:35] Dani: Yeah. You're gonna confuse yourself too. Yeah. 

[00:21:37] Nicole Meier: Yeah. The story should have a message. I mean, I think we all know that, and we all sort of encourage the writers we work with. What do you want to say in the story? How do you want your reader to feel by the time they reach the end and. I always remind people, when you're stuck at that messy middle, that's kind of the perfect time to remind yourself of your original message.

[00:21:55] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Okay, everyone, now that we've really touched on some powerful and actionable, I think, steps on how to approach mindset when you're drafting that novel manuscript, I think how I wanna close this out is I would love for each of you to share kind of a final thought for the emerging novelist that's listening today.

[00:22:17] Nicole Meier: I. So if you had one thing to share with writers, what would it be? Joanne, let's start with you. 

[00:22:23] Joanne: Yeah, thanks, Nicole. Nicole, I think just as a reminder, you know, you're not alone. There are lots of wonderful editors and coaches out there who would love to help. There's five of us sitting in this room and then be open to help.

[00:22:38] Joanne: So those two things know you're not alone and be open to help. That's lovely, Suzie. 

[00:22:44] Suzi: Yeah, I mean, we've been talking a lot about. Getting your novel going and what goes onto the page. And I just, mindset is such a bigger concept than that for me as well. And I just wanna talk about your own creative life that you are stepping into this and you're feeling called to be creative.

[00:23:00] Suzi: So get creative. You can look at other people's lives and people that you wanna emulate and people that are famous or writers that you respect and admire. Take what you want from their life and just know that there is no one way to be a writer. There is no one way to have that conversation with the world or to show up.

[00:23:21] Suzi: And so build it your way and be yourself in your writing, but also just in your life and how you show up in the world. 

[00:23:29] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Beautifully said. Okay, Danny, what is 

[00:23:32] Dani: coming up for you? What would you like to share? So I'm just thinking about my clients right now when we're recording this. It's early 2025, and.

[00:23:42] Dani: There's a lot happening in the world that for people who hold historically marginalized identities feels really scary. And if you are one of those people, I just want you to know that you matter and you belong, and you are valid and you deserve all the good things, and it's hard to create when you are afraid.

[00:24:10] Dani: Or when life is really hard. And so if you can't create right now, that is okay. Your story will wait for you. But also your voice matters and story is one of the most powerful tools we have for changing people, both for people who don't understand you and like making people like you feel seen. So there is power and worth in your story.

[00:24:34] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Such an important message. Thank you, Danny. Okay, Stephanie, we're gonna close it out with something from you. No pressure. 

[00:24:44] Stephanie: Um, yeah, I'm just going to latch on to what Danny was saying, which is that your story matters because you matter. And stories have the power to change hearts and minds. And even if your story is.

[00:25:00] Stephanie: Lighthearted and fun and not trying to make some existential point. It is still very crucial that we have it and that you put it out there and find people to be in community with, as Joanne was saying, whether it's a coach like one of us or. A writing group or just a friend who you can talk to about it, who gets it so that you can commiserate about the hard parts and share the joys and celebrations and just pay attention to what your mind is telling you.

[00:25:43] Stephanie: I just wrote a post about this called My Brain is Not the Boss of Me. And because I've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years figuring out what my brain is telling me on a regular basis, and it's really not all positive. And so I think it's really important that we pay attention to what we're telling ourselves and then decide if we're going to believe it or not.

[00:26:08] Stephanie: And I just hope that you choose to believe that your story matters. 

[00:26:12] Nicole Meier: Beautifully said. Beautiful way to wrap up listeners. If you know another writer who is struggling with mindset, I really encourage you to share this episode. And now that you've gotten a flavor of what it's like to work with these coaches, I would encourage you to look at the show notes, find out how to follow them, connect with them, because they are an amazing wealth of information, inspiration, and motivation.

[00:26:36] Nicole Meier: And I'm so happy you guys joined me today. Thank you so much. Wish we all, yeah. Yeah. And thank you everybody. This was part two in a series. And tune in next time for part three. Bye everybody.

[00:26:52] Nicole Meier: If you want to check out my coaching programs for fiction writers, visit nicolemeier.com. That's M-E-I-E-R. And if you like this episode, I'd love you to take a minute to leave a rating and review for this podcast. This will help more writers like you to discover the show and to get going on their writing journey.

[00:27:13] Nicole Meier: Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, happy writing everyone.