58. Nurture Your Revisions: How to Approach Your Next Draft with special guests

For the next three episodes, I'm doing something special. Recently I had the Joy of gathering with 15 of my book coaching friends, an inspiring group of thoughtful, compassionate coaches and editors who are all deeply invested in helping writers like you bring their stories to life. We spent time setting intentions supporting one another and talking about the many ways we can uplift the writers we work with.

And as we talked, I couldn't help but think, what if I could bring their wisdom and encouragement straight to you? So that's exactly what this three part series is all about. Over the next three episodes, in these round table style conversations, you'll hear insights, guidance, and heartfelt advice to help you write forward with clarity and confidence.

You'll notice a variety of skill sets and focuses among the group. Some specialize in memoir, some specialize in children's books and others while coaching adult fiction. Bring a unique perspective to the work. I hope you'll grab a notebook, settle in, and soak up the wisdom these writing coaches have to share.

Links to guests from this episode:

Kerry Savage

Monica Cox

Abigail Raeke

Nicole Meier

Transcript

STEPS TO STORY EP 58 - Nurture Your Revisions: A Roundtable Discussion

[00:00:00] Nicole Meier: For the next three episodes, I'm doing something special. Recently I had the Joy of gathering with 15 of my book Coaching Friends, an inspiring group of thoughtful, compassionate coaches and editors who are all deeply invested in helping writers like you bring their stories to life. We spent time setting intentions supporting one another and talking about the many ways we can uplift the writers we work with.

[00:00:25] Nicole Meier: And as we talked, I couldn't help but think. What if I could bring their wisdom and encouragement straight to you? So that's exactly what this three part series is all about. Over the next three episodes, in these round table style conversations, you'll hear insights, guidance, and heartfelt advice to help you write forward with clarity and confidence.

[00:00:47] Nicole Meier: You'll notice a variety of skillset and focuses among the group. Some specialize in memoir, some specialize in children's books and others while coaching adult fiction. Bring a unique perspective to the work. I hope you'll grab a notebook, settle in, and soak up the wisdom these writing coaches have to share.

[00:01:07] Nicole Meier: And a little behind the scenes tidbit. My podcast mic broke the day we were set to record, but sometimes you just have to roll with it. So with a little improvisation and a lot of heart, we made it happen. Let's begin.

[00:01:29] Nicole Meier: Welcome to Steps to Story. This season I'm focusing on helping you grow as a writer and as an author. I am Nicole Meier, multi published author and certified book coach here to guide you on strengthening your story and getting it out into the world. This season we'll explore ways to overcome the challenges that hold writers back from breaking through creative blocks to fine tuning your story structure and navigating the publishing world with confidence.

[00:01:58] Nicole Meier: Wherever you are in your journey, consider this your supportive space to find clarity, direction, and encouragement. Let's take the next step in your story together.

[00:02:12] Nicole Meier: Hey listeners, welcome on in. This is part three in the series that I'm doing, which is behind the scenes with book coaches, and today I am surrounded by three of my fellow book coaches who I just adore, but I'm going to let them introduce themselves. So let's start with Monica. 

[00:02:30] Monica Cox: Hi, I am Monica Cox and I am an author and a book coach, and revision is my happy place.

[00:02:35] Monica Cox: I love helping writers get through that murky mess of planning and executing a revision. I. 

[00:02:41] Carrie Savage: Hi, I am Carrie Savage. I'm a writer and a book coach, and I love revision for all the same reasons that Monica just said. It is so joyful to help writers find their way out of the mire of revision. Sometimes it can feel really overwhelming and my particular project manager Heart loves helping people sort and organize through all of that stuff and really feel like they can get through to the finish line.

[00:03:02] Nicole Meier: Nice. 

[00:03:03] Abagail Rake: Abigail. Hi, I am Abigail Ra. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me. I am a book coach and I specialize in memoir and historical fiction. Upmarket fiction and revision is my zone of genius. That's where I love to work with people the most. 

[00:03:20] Nicole Meier: Okay, well, it's no coincidence that I gathered the three of you because I know you are pros at revisions.

[00:03:26] Nicole Meier: And so the listeners here are novel writers. They're emerging authors, and I would love to talk today about how to approach revisions. I mentioned this is the third part in a series. We talked about getting started and staying motivated. We also talked about some mindset habits. But with you guys, I really wanna know from you.

[00:03:45] Nicole Meier: What you can share with our listeners about approaching revisions on that novel manuscript. So, let's see. I'm gonna go around here. Let's start with Monica. What is coming up for you? When I ask that question, 

[00:03:57] Monica Cox: I think first it's making sure that with revision, we're not talking about editing on a line level just yet.

[00:04:03] Monica Cox: Revision is that big picture. Story structure, character arc, making sure that what you intended to tell is the story that's on the page. So my first step for any writer is always to take that 30,000 foot view and look at your story whole and see if it's doing what you wanted it to do in the first place before you start murking around into your paragraphs and trying to fix little things.

[00:04:26] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Can you say a little bit more about the 30,000 foot view? 'cause I really like that analogy, so that doesn't mean I'm gonna go in and just pick each scene apart. What does that mean? For 

[00:04:34] Monica Cox: me, that means your first step is you're reading it like a reader. So I think when we're writing and editing and doing all the things as writers, there's three different mindsets I like to think about.

[00:04:44] Monica Cox: When you're writing, you're in that free, imaginative writer mindset where you have to put everyone else to the side. Your editor voice, your critic voice, all that doubtful voice. You put it aside so you can just really be free. To create, and then you have your editor's mindset, which is when we invite our critic back to the table.

[00:05:00] Monica Cox: But I think what you have to do in between is read your words as if you are your ideal reader, and see if you've told that story. Invite your editor to the table. You can marry your writer and your reader experience together to really tell. That full magical story that you intended to. 

[00:05:16] Nicole Meier: Yeah, I really like that.

[00:05:17] Nicole Meier: That kind of simplifies it for people listening because there are so many different ways to approach it. Carrie, what are you thinking now? Well, probably 

[00:05:24] Carrie Savage: typical for me and my project manager Nest, and I will stop saying that. Now again, I agree with everything Monica just said, and I think from a practical standpoint, the tactical things that I like to do, and I did this for my own work and, and it's what I advise my clients to do as well, is.

[00:05:38] Carrie Savage: Print it out. Well, first of all, take a breath, walk away from it for a couple of weeks if you can, because getting that transitional space in your mind from writer brain to editor brain is really, really helpful. It also gives you that fresh perspective on it, and then print it out if you can, or turn it into a PDF and read it on your Kindle or, or just look at it and try to consume it in a different way and read it as a reader would, and don't let yourself into that Scrivener file or that word doc.

[00:06:07] Carrie Savage: While you're going through the manuscript, because you will get lost in the little fiddly things that you don't need to be worried about at this point. So I read with. Big index cards and post-it notes and highlighters, and I am just making lists of things that I see. Mm-hmm. And then when I'm done, I can look back at all of my notes and I compile them into a list, kind of group them together.

[00:06:27] Carrie Savage: Like are there the notes about where I'm missing descriptions, or where is this character arc falling flat? How do I need to shore that up? Where is the plot lagging a little bit. Group those things together and then tackle revisions in a very strategic way so that you're not taking on too much at once, because that's another place that we can get stuck, is we try to do all of the things I need to do these 12 things in this scene, and then you're always either losing one or you just kind of get stuck and frustrated.

[00:06:56] Nicole Meier: Okay. I'm so happy you said all of the details because you are project manager and you're good at it. I've seen you in action, but that actually is very helpful because a lot of us, I tell people, print it out and maybe in a different font, but you are going to step beyond that to get really organized with how you're approaching it with the note cards, with the highlighters, with.

[00:07:16] Nicole Meier: Breaking it down by category of maybe today is setting or today is interiority, whatever it is. Exactly. Mm-hmm. And that is where your project management skills really marry the editing. And I love that, Carrie. 

[00:07:30] Carrie Savage: Yeah, it's really helpful. The tactical stuff I think we need to think about sometimes because we can.

[00:07:34] Carrie Savage: Get stuck in the 30,000 foot view sometimes too. Or I wanna do the 30,000 foot view, but like where do I start? Mm-hmm. Get some note cards. It feels very like you can put your hands on them. Yeah. And put them on the table and write on them. It feels really good. Yeah. 

[00:07:48] Abagail Rake: Okay, Abigail, I'd love to hear from you.

[00:07:51] Abagail Rake: Yeah, I love all that. That is all true. And I'll come in for some advice when you're reading through those pages that you're revising. I find this is very common with Venus scripts because it's so hard to get just what's happening, flow the exterior flow down on the page, and writers work so hard to get that on the page.

[00:08:12] Abagail Rake: So then it's very common when you go into reviews to review your work or revise your work that. We sort of have that protagonist, this camera problem where things are on the page described, but they don't come from any particular point of view. So a piece of advice I give is to read everything on the page and think of it as from your protagonist point of view.

[00:08:36] Abagail Rake: It's on a scale from good to bad based on what they want, what they fear, what they expect. That's a really great way. If you're wondering, you know, I have to read over my pages. Where do I even begin? Well take a few pages read through. Is anything neutral on the page? Nothing is just sort of neutral description.

[00:08:57] Abagail Rake: It should all come from a point of view and whose point of view is it coming from? And think of that scale. Is it? Good for the protagonist based on what they want, what they need, what they fear, what they expect. Or is it good for them, good or bad? Or bad for them? Think, yeah, good for bad for them. So yeah, think of everything you're putting down on the page and that gets into character arc.

[00:09:17] Abagail Rake: That's building back up then to the 3000 foot view into your bigger pieces. But to me that's very important for. Beginning to really get into your character and their 

[00:09:27] Nicole Meier: perspective. 

[00:09:27] Abagail Rake: Yeah. And that, yeah. Has to do with the other big pieces. 

[00:09:30] Nicole Meier: I like that. So just to clarify, so mm-hmm. You don't want things to be neutral because then there's zero point of view.

[00:09:37] Abagail Rake: Yes. 

[00:09:37] Nicole Meier: Yeah. And I think that a lot of times, I know I've worked with writers and you guys have too, where they say, well, I don't wanna be too indulgent on this side, or I don't wanna share too much, or I don't wanna go off too much on their point of view. But I always say. There isn't too much. We wanna be in your character's head.

[00:09:53] Nicole Meier: Mm-hmm. And so I really like that. Yeah. That's my good. Neutral, bad, not neutral. 

[00:09:56] Abagail Rake: Yeah. Nothing neutral on the page. Just the same way in our world. We walk into a room and whether we know it or not, we're making judgements, you know, things that we're noticing. Depend on what we care about at that moment. Yeah, our goals basically.

[00:10:11] Abagail Rake: Yeah. And we hear about that in how important that is in writing, and I think in revisions, that's always one of the first things that people can be looking for. 

[00:10:19] Nicole Meier: Yeah. That's really good. So, so far we've talked about zooming out and thinking about your ideal reader and how they would come to the page.

[00:10:26] Nicole Meier: We're talking about getting organized and really tackling things in terms of categories. Mm-hmm. And not doing all the things all at once. And we've talked about. Really honing in on that point of view because that's so key to a good story. Now let's go even deeper and talk about the actual structure.

[00:10:44] Nicole Meier: This is something that all of us have worked with writers where they have this amazing premise and they have great characters, but sometimes the structure doesn't necessarily fit in there. Maybe there's no scene goal or there's no arc. So do you guys have any tips in terms of a writer who says, I don't even know if I have structured, how can I approach this?

[00:11:05] Monica Cox: Yeah. I love this and I think Carrie's gonna appreciate this. I work with my writers on creating spreadsheets Okay. Of their novel. Because I think too, yes, you want that 30,000 foot view, but then when you start working on it, you can't hold all of that in your head at one time. Yeah. So how do you begin to work on the categories that Carrie mentioned or work on point of view?

[00:11:25] Monica Cox: Mm-hmm. Like Abigail said, like you need to see it in a different way. So we'll create an outline of what their story is on the page. We put it into a spreadsheet and we'll track whatever it is that might be a problem. We're tracking character arc. We might have a column for setting, or we might have a column for timeline, or if you're doing dual timelines or multiple points of view, we try to put as much detail.

[00:11:50] Monica Cox: Into your spreadsheet so that then you can use color coding or track changes there to see where are things missing, where are the plot holes? Where is your story trajectory perhaps falling apart a little bit. If you're noticing you have three chapters full of backstory, that doesn't really move your story forward.

[00:12:07] Monica Cox: It becomes much more clear when you can see it in a very concise and visual format. I am not a spreadsheet thinker person, but it helps me so much stay on track. I'm using one right now for myself, and it is a color coded rainbow visualization mess, but it's the only way that I can keep track of all of those details in one place.

[00:12:31] Monica Cox: In a much more manageable container than just, here's my, yeah. 500 page word doc or 300, whatever. It's really hard to track down where you need to be. 

[00:12:39] Nicole Meier: Okay. You are. I know you're singing Carrie's tune because she likes good organization, 

[00:12:45] Carrie Savage: but, but I would like to say that I know that Monica, she's saying, oh, that I'm not a spreadsheet person.

[00:12:50] Carrie Savage: She has this tool is amazing. So you did yourself. We're very proud and you are a spreadsheet person, so own that. I am now I'm a spreadsheet. 

[00:13:00] Monica Cox: Convert everybody 

[00:13:01] Carrie Savage: my name. So I think just tacking onto that and one of the ways that I've used tools like that, like what you have too, is I think on that level as you are assessing, keeping track of is as you said, like the setting of a scene.

[00:13:14] Carrie Savage: Who is involved in the scene? Also, what decisions are your characters making or is the protagonist making? There should be something in every scene that is forcing them to make a choice in order to make sure that the story is moving forward. And then that choice that they're making is gonna lead them down a path that they didn't see coming and force them to make more choices.

[00:13:33] Carrie Savage: And that is how we connect all of these dots. So I think you can tell sometimes a scene is flat, but you're not really sure why. And if you start asking yourself those kinds of questions, I. Then you start to see, oh, that's probably why, because they're not being forced into a decision here, or they're not taking action.

[00:13:51] Carrie Savage: They don't have any agency in this moment. Things are just passing them by. And that's true of quiet novels as well as action packed thrillers. Story is the same in some universal ways, and that's one of the ones where we can apply across genres. We all need to be concerned that those pieces are in place.

[00:14:09] Carrie Savage: That's when in those flat scenes, that's when your reader is putting the book down and that's obviously the last thing that we want. So 

[00:14:15] Nicole Meier: yeah, it starts with that simple question of, do I have a little internal red flag flickering saying this scene might be falling flat. And then you can dive into the why and then the how.

[00:14:25] Carrie Savage: Yep. 

[00:14:26] Nicole Meier: Absolutely. Yeah, that's really good. Okay, Abigail. 

[00:14:30] Abagail Rake: I agree. I think choices and decisions are the magic of writing, and they are important on big structural turning points all the way down to scene level. Exactly as Carrie was saying, I think when people say, I don't really have a structure. They might not be clear on what their present story timeline really is.

[00:14:52] Abagail Rake: And sometimes you have a dual timeline, but you wanna be really clear about how your story is building in a single timeline. So if they're not sure what their structure is, I find sometimes. His backstory can be so important to a story. We've all read books where the present story timeline might be three days, and there's 150 pages of backstory that's driving that relatively small present story timeline forward.

[00:15:20] Abagail Rake: But we have to know what that is 'cause the transformation, the change, and we're talking about fiction that has a character arc and oftentimes a positive character arc. That's gonna be driven forward in the present story timeline. So I do think that understanding through spreadsheets and organization and knowing where your scenes are and what you're doing that is gonna keep writers from being just feeling so frustrated going round and round and round and round, and some things that I do.

[00:15:54] Abagail Rake: After the spreadsheets, after all the organizations, once writers know their scenes, if they still have some important things, some backstory that they need to weave in. I have them just put 'em on note cards and keep them by their desk. Because as you read, as you do this revision work, sometimes you have these aha moments and you realize, okay, yeah, where I was trying to kind of shoehorn in that backstory.

[00:16:16] Abagail Rake: Yeah, that was a dump back there. I can actually weave it in here now. And when we give ourselves that space to step back. And use these tools and just have fun with them. We all say like, oh, I'm not a spreadsheet person. But if we can approach it a little bit like it's just another tool, it's my story.

[00:16:34] Abagail Rake: Yeah. I can have fun with it. That really can help your revision come together in a, 

[00:16:38] Nicole Meier: yeah. Good way. And I like that approach too. First of all, I like you addressing timelines because I know some of us are nodding in the room like we have struggled in the past with timelines. Also, sometimes we think of when someone says, I've got tools for you.

[00:16:51] Nicole Meier: It feels overwhelming. It feels intimidating. It feels like. Something that's not, it's opposite of fun, but really when you look at it that way, it's just another tool in your tool belt. And these will be things that will help you feel like you can measure whether or not your manuscript draft is ready for the next step.

[00:17:10] Nicole Meier: And people are always looking for ways to measure, right? So that's really good. Yeah. 

[00:17:14] Abagail Rake: And I say play, you know? Yeah. Play. Play with it. It is not your story. These tools are not your story. Yeah. They will help your story come together. Yeah. It's a great way of looking at it. 

[00:17:24] Monica Cox: Yeah. And it reminds me of that quote about when you're writing a riff draft or just putting sand in the sandbox, but revision is where you get to build up a castle and then maybe decide that this half of the castle doesn't work and I can build something new or Yeah, just play with it because all the sand is still there.

[00:17:39] Monica Cox: Yes. Right. You have all the elements. You just get to experiment and. That's what I love to do. Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:43] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Vision spot. Right. Really good. Okay. Now that we've talked about being in the revision phase and going through our work, I know that a question on the listener's lips is, okay, great, when do I get feedback and when do I get help?

[00:17:58] Nicole Meier: So I wanna know from each of you your response to that. 

[00:18:02] Abagail Rake: Maria Simple has a quote that says the first draft is for you. The second draft is for your editor, and the third draft is for your reader. Of course, we know that books often take many more drafts than three. Still, it could be the first five drafts are for you, but I really believe that when you're beginning to write a book.

[00:18:23] Abagail Rake: You are figuring out what that book is about, and by the time you're ready to go for feedback on that, you want to know, you wanna be able to say to a beta reader or your partner, here's what I'm trying to do here. Is this working? I think a lot of writers begin and they're hopeful and they sort of. Might give their work out to the world and then get a lot of different feedback and then they have to sort through it all.

[00:18:50] Abagail Rake: So it can be really helpful when you know some of these questions we talked about, your structure, your timelines, and then you can get good feedback from people. You get better feedback when you know more about your story and what you're doing and what you want to do with your book. 

[00:19:07] Nicole Meier: Yeah, that's great.

[00:19:08] Nicole Meier: Distill it down to, here's what my book is about and here's what I'm trying to do with it. That is so empowering and it helps the writer as they go to people for feedback because they're solid in, here's what I'm trying to do with it. 

[00:19:21] Carrie Savage: That's great. It really helps keep, as Abby was saying, like keeping the feedback noise down because you will, if you set it out to five people, you'll be lucky and I hope this is what happens that.

[00:19:32] Carrie Savage: You get three people who will tell you one thing and then the other two are gonna kind of tell you the opposite. And you're probably going, what the heck do I do now? I don't know who to listen to, but if you go back to what you know about the book that you wanna write, that can be your North Star in answering those questions about like, oh, well, these three people said this, but you know what?

[00:19:50] Carrie Savage: That feedback isn't resonating because that's not the book that I want to write. And so I can put that aside, and I'm still grateful that they gave it to me. It was helpful. So that is a great way to assess that kind of thing. 'cause it can definitely trip you up. I've been there where you're just like, I don't know who to listen to.

[00:20:06] Carrie Savage: Two polar opposite pieces of feedback from people that I trust equally, what do I do here? And going back to those core pieces of what you're working on. And to that same end, my recommendation would be when you're getting ready to go to betas or if you hire a developmental editor, to have that conversation and or ask very specific questions that are in line with what you want to know about your book.

[00:20:27] Carrie Savage: I am trying to do this. Did I succeed in doing this? Yeah. Yeah. Because if you don't guide people in a certain way, what you will often get back is. This was really good, but they don't tell you why or This didn't quite work for me, but that's really not actionable. Or like, I didn't like it. That's kind of the worst thing that you wanna hear, especially when there's no there behind it to help you figure out why it didn't work or why they didn't like it.

[00:20:52] Carrie Savage: And so the more that you can give people specific things that you want them to look for and respond to, the easier it is for them and the more juicy feedback you're gonna get that's gonna help guide you in in the next steps. 

[00:21:03] Nicole Meier: Yeah, that's really good. Monica, you're nodding. What's coming up for you right now?

[00:21:08] Nicole Meier: I am. Well, one of the 

[00:21:08] Monica Cox: things that's coming up is that you again. Just like Abigail and Carrie said, like, you wanna be secure in your story. You wanna know what it is that you're doing, and when you've taken it as far as you can, you wanna invite that feedback, but know where it is. I think though, that something that's popping in my head is, who do you ask as a baby writer?

[00:21:27] Monica Cox: I made this mistake where I sent it to my mom and my friend who is making clear, and you get the, oh, that's nice. You wrote a book or That was great, or whatever. Yeah. And you don't get that actionable feedback. So you wanna be secure in your story, but also secure in who you're asking. For help. So that's where your writer community is gonna be so helpful to you.

[00:21:45] Monica Cox: It doesn't have to be 18 people that are commenting on your story. You want to really narrow that down and be intentional about who you're asking, what you're asking to get from them, and knowing then how far you can take that to influence what it is you're trying to do. 'cause not everyone is gonna agree.

[00:22:02] Monica Cox: Mm-hmm. Like Carrie said, like some people are gonna like it, some people aren't. We're all coming at it from different perspectives. Yeah. With different biases. You just kind of need to keep in mind who your ideal reader is, and did I provide a story that's gonna reach them, touch them, move them, make them take action, whatever it's, 

[00:22:19] Nicole Meier: mm-hmm.

[00:22:19] Nicole Meier: Yeah, that's really good. So the takeaway there is to get intentional, know what you're asking for, and then go to trusted, helpful. Readers and or resources because casting a wide net with anything and everything is not ever helpful. Danger, 

[00:22:36] Monica Cox: age or danger. This is your cook baby. And you don't just put your baby with just any baby that you ask some questions before you leave at home.

[00:22:43] Monica Cox: So you wanna, even when you're, if you're hiring help, whatever it is, you wanna make sure that's a good fit for you. Absolute story. So yeah. 

[00:22:50] Nicole Meier: So good. Be careful with it. Yeah. This is your book, baby. Yes. I love it. Okay. We are gonna wrap it up with a final piece of advice from all three of you, because I think that you guys have set the listeners up to go away and really think about their revisions in a fresh, new way.

[00:23:07] Nicole Meier: So Abigail, do you have a final bit of advice you wanna share? Yeah, I think I 

[00:23:12] Abagail Rake: would just say, especially to first time authors, aspiring authors, be patient. It takes even a very experienced author time to figure out what they're trying to say, the structure of the book that's best going to elevate that.

[00:23:30] Abagail Rake: And if you're a first time writer, you're also learning the craft at the same time. Writing is both an art and a craft. A craft, and that there are measurable things you can learn and an art in that. It's a work of a lifetime. So be patient and. Play, be patient with yourself. That's good. Okay, 

[00:23:51] Carrie Savage: Carrie, no surprise, I'm gonna be super practical because that's where my head is all the time.

[00:23:56] Carrie Savage: Not all the time, it's not true. But what I would say is just be strategic. Write yourself a to-do list and group it up in those ways that I was talking about. And then tackle one thing at a time. So today is your setting day, where or your setting week in your revision, which you're gonna go through and you're gonna tackle.

[00:24:12] Carrie Savage: All the setting related issues that you wanna tackle throughout your manuscript, and then you can check that off the list and you do not have to think about it again. If something else comes up when you're revising something else, fine, no problem. Put it back on the list, but really be intentional that way because it is so, so easy to get overwhelmed.

[00:24:30] Carrie Savage: And brain science has shown us that when you can offload this stuff and put your focus where you want it to be. I know sometimes I get pushback of like, you're too tactical and that doesn't leave any room for creativity. I swear to you, you will be more creative. Yeah. If you're focused on that specific piece than if you're trying to focus on that.

[00:24:47] Carrie Savage: But also you've got 12 other things in the back of your mind that you maybe should be thinking about now. Or maybe you'll do them tomorrow. No, no, no, no, no. Put that on a piece of paper. That's what it's there for. And really let your brain get juicy with the thing that you're focusing on. 

[00:25:00] Nicole Meier: That's great. I love that advice.

[00:25:02] Nicole Meier: Yeah, that's great. Okay, Monica, wrap us up here. Oh gosh. I'm gonna just say 

[00:25:06] Monica Cox: trust yourself. I think that as writers and especially new emerging writers, you're gonna know that your book is not quite right yet. You're gonna get frustrated that you don't know how to fix it yet. But remember that, like Abigail said, it takes patience and time and that the books you're reading that you get at the bookstore or library have been.

[00:25:26] Monica Cox: Well practiced, well edited. They have been through multiple drafts that you don't see, and just know that if you see it's not right yet, that means you're doing the right thing. Yeah. So just be patient with it. Learn the new thing. If you're thinking, wow, I don't know why this character seems flat on the page, that's when you go do your research or you go back to.

[00:25:44] Monica Cox: Reading some of your favorite books and seeing how your favorite writers did it, or you're calling a book coach or a writing coach or writing friend or whatever you need to do, and learning what you need to boost up your skills to take it to the next level because you will, because you recognize that you can.

[00:25:59] Nicole Meier: Awesome. I love it. Thank you all listeners. Hopefully you got some good nuggets of inspiration today and I really encourage you to go to the show notes so you can follow and find out all the good information about Abigail Carey and Monica. And thanks so much for joining me on this three part series.

[00:26:17] Nicole Meier: Thank you all for being here. Thank you for having us. It was fun. Yeah, it was great to chat with you guys. Okay. Steps to story listeners. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.

[00:26:29] Nicole Meier: If you want to check out my coaching programs for fiction writers, visit nicolemeier.com. That's M-E-I-E-R. And if you like this episode, I'd love you to take a minute to leave a rating and review for this podcast. This will help more writers like you to discover the show and to get going on their writing journey.

[00:26:50] Nicole Meier: Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, happy writing everyone.