71. The Whole Writer in Action: From Query Doubt to Dream Deal with Kelly Kearsley

Join me for an intimate living room chat with author Kelly Kearsley, who shares her remarkable journey from seasoned nonfiction writer to debut novelist with a Big Five book deal. 

In this candid conversation, Kelly reveals the realities of the query process, the importance of building literary community, and how her journalism background both helped and hindered her fiction writing. She offers practical wisdom on treating your writing like a job and understanding that the journey of becoming a writer transforms your entire creative life—not just your manuscript.

Find Kelly at her Substack and Website.

Find Nicole here.

Transcript

THE WHOLE WRITER EP 71 - From Query Doubt to Dream Deal with Kelly Kearsley

[00:00:00] Nicole Meier: Listeners today, I'm inviting you into my living room. That's right. I'm doing a living room chat with my client. And now good friend Kelly Kearsley. Kelly's here to share all the goodness behind starting as a non-fiction writer, learning how to write a novel, landing her dream agent, and scoring a traditional book deal with a big five publisher.

[00:00:19] Nicole Meier: Before we get into our conversation, let me share her bio. Kelly Curiously writes humorous contemporary fiction and her debut novel called Talented and Gifted will be published by Grand Central Publishing in 2027. She began her career as a news and publicist journalist winning investigative awards for her reporting.

[00:00:38] Nicole Meier: Her work has been published in the Wall Street Journal, money Magazine, Forbes CNN, money Runner's World and More. She's also been an organizer, blogger, and investor in Oregon startup community. Kelly lives here in Bend, Oregon, and I can't wait for you to get to know her, so let's jump right into it.

[00:01:04] Nicole Meier: Welcome to the whole writer, a place where we talk about what it means to show up as a writer, not just a better writer or a more productive writer or a published writer, but a whole one. Someone who's grounded in their voice, in their community, in their creative path, even when the world tells them to hustle, compare, or conform.

[00:01:24] Nicole Meier: I'm Nicole Meier, a multi published author and book coach who believes that nurturing the person behind the page is just as important as refining the words on it. Each week we'll explore the terrain of riding life with honesty, warmth, and practical wisdom, creating space for you to write from a place of wholeness rather than depletion.

[00:01:45] Nicole Meier: Whether you're drafting your first manuscript or publishing your fifth book, you'll find conversation and companionship for the journey here. So settle in, bring your questions and your curiosity, and let's discover what it means to write and live with authenticity and purpose. Purpose. Hi everybody.

[00:02:05] Nicole Meier: Welcome back to the whole writer. I am so thrilled to have my guest here today because not only is she an incredible writer, but she's also a friend. Welcome, Kelly Kearsley. Hello. We are having Kelly on at the perfect time because so many listeners are right in the midst of either writing their novel, polishing, querying, or even thinking about the next steps for self-publishing, and Kelly has just announced her deal with a traditional Big five publishers.

[00:02:34] Nicole Meier: So I thought I'd have her on and we can talk about everything. Soup to nuts. How she went from learning how to write a book all the way to getting a fabulous book deal. So, hi. Yay. Welcome. Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Okay, so let's kind of go back in time to something that totally stands out in my mind because we were together, Kelly and I were together in the spring, and she came over with her husband for a drink to our house.

[00:03:01] Nicole Meier: And I specifically remember you being in the middle of the query process and you secretly saying to me in almost a whisper, I think I'm gonna stop because this is kind of a lot. And what happened the very next morning, 

[00:03:15] Kelly Kearsley: Kelly, the next day I got an email from the person who's now my agent asking for a call.

[00:03:23] Kelly Kearsley: So yeah, it was in quite a low spot. Well, I dunno if it's quite a low spot. I was on the query rollercoaster at that point. And had been querying kind of on and off for maybe the better part of the fall and into the winter, and it had some momentum and then a lot of quiet and then some momentum, a lot of quiet, and just was having a hard time understanding if I had written a book, that was how I learned to write a book, or if this book had kind of any legs in the market.

[00:03:51] Kelly Kearsley: So yeah, Nicole, you caught me at a low spot, 

[00:03:53] Nicole Meier: which was bananas because I remember. Before I'd even had my coffee the next morning you texted me and said, I got the call from the agent. Right? So it was literally less than 24 hours uhhuh. And you broke my rules of saying, don't be an eore. Like don't self-sabotage yourself.

[00:04:10] Nicole Meier: Don't say to yourself, oh, I'll never make it because that energy seeps in. You completely broke that. So I can't really say that to people anymore. 

[00:04:19] Kelly Kearsley: Well, and I think too, it's actually, I. Well, you know me, Nicole, I'm not like naturally a negative person, but I do think the query process is, I mean, I'll just say it for all the writers out there, it is hard, it's demoralizing.

[00:04:31] Kelly Kearsley: It's a little hard on your mental health, and I think the part that's really hard is just the not knowing. I liked getting responses, like if I got rejection or of course you wanna get a full request. That says something, it's the kind of sending things off. And to avoid that gets really hard and starts to make you question like, is this process worth it?

[00:04:50] Kelly Kearsley: Do I have the right thing? Have I done anything that anyone is interested in? And you know, you're trying to do something that is hard and against the odds, right? But you also wanna have a big goal. So balancing those two things mentally, I don't think I learned how to do it very well. 

[00:05:07] Nicole Meier: Well, you're human and you go through the process like so many of us where you're excited about the project, but then the reality of not getting feedback is very difficult.

[00:05:16] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. Another funny dynamic that I think a lot of writers will understand is the whole time all the industry is being a little quiet while you're waiting to hear back from agents, your friends, your family. The people who aren't participating in the process as much are just wanting to know when they can read your book.

[00:05:31] Nicole Meier: Yes. And they don't understand the process. Oh. And your answer is like, uh, somewhere between never and five years from now. Yeah. Okay. So that actually reminds me of when you first started querying. Mm-hmm. You actually did get feedback from one particular agent, and you said it was really helpful, right?

[00:05:50] Kelly Kearsley: Yes. So again, and maybe breaking the rules we're all told not to expect personal feedback from agents. I was wanting to send out like a test query. The first query I sent out, I just, I remember I was sitting on my deck and I gathered up all my courage and just pushed send and then sat there and was like, I'm in the world now.

[00:06:10] Kelly Kearsley: And I woke up. That was an afternoon. I actually woke up to an answer from that agent. So it was so fast. It was a personalized answer, which again, we're not supposed to anticipate, but it was when I really appreciate it. She was not requesting the manuscript. She was. Passing on it, but she gave me some really good advice about the first chapters and she told me I needed to increase the momentum and cut the length, and I did that immediately.

[00:06:34] Kelly Kearsley: So I loved that kind of as a test, and I incorporated the feedback right away. And I think ultimately it made everything stronger for that, the next 

[00:06:42] Nicole Meier: batch. Wow. That is incredible. And really, what a gift. Mm-hmm. I had the same thing when I was first querying. My awful manuscript that still lives in a drawer is I had an agent, I think it was after eight or nine months, send me an email almost chapter by chapter of why the book wasn't working.

[00:06:59] Nicole Meier: Right. And I mean, it was the biggest gift. Yeah. It was permission for me to really look at it objectively. It sounds like you got the same sort of feedback. Yeah. 

[00:07:08] Kelly Kearsley: In this process it's, I think as writers, maybe sometimes our first instinct is to be nervous about negative feedback. I think all feedback is kind of a gift, and you can decide to do with it what you want.

[00:07:21] Kelly Kearsley: Like I said before, it's the silence that's a little more unsettling. It's the no response that makes you question, but you can decide what to do with feedback, whether you wanna take it or not. 

[00:07:31] Nicole Meier: Okay, so we're gonna stay on the query train just a little bit longer. Mm-hmm. Before we dive into all the fun stuff about finding your editor to Publishing House and about your actual writing process, but since we're talking about queries, I did wanna ask you what your thoughts are on the process.

[00:07:47] Nicole Meier: So, pretend there's a listener out there, which there is, who has polished their book to their best of their ability, and now they think, you know what? I'd like to be traditionally published. I'd like to think about querying. What are your thoughts on it compared to all the things you were told? All of the, we talked about the lore or the myths?

[00:08:04] Nicole Meier: Mm-hmm. Or the fear that's on social media or substack. What are your thoughts on the whole process? 

[00:08:10] Kelly Kearsley: I have lots of thoughts. I won't convey them all. I think if you're a writer on the query journey, you can consume a lot of information online via threads or substack that can start to feel like it's contradicting itself.

[00:08:23] Kelly Kearsley: And so maybe the first advice is to. Pause at some point and just know that you've made something that's quality enough and like I did send out a test, send out two, see what happens to not treat your query letter as a one and done thing that you're trying to perfect. And then you're blasting out two, you know, 50 agents and seeing what happens.

[00:08:46] Kelly Kearsley: I treated it more like an evolution. I tweaked it as I went along and I think it got stronger and I also think it made me feel better knowing I. I could change it as we went along, that I didn't have to be married to the first version, but I could incorporate feedback like I got from that agent. I ended up going to the Kauai Writers Conference.

[00:09:04] Kelly Kearsley: I queried a batch of agents, then I went to Kauai, and during Kauai I did kind of tweak some aspects of the query letter to highlight the things that were catching agent's attention at that point. So I think all of it becomes just information gathering. And you're incorporating that into your query letter as you go along to make it stronger and stronger.

[00:09:22] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Would you say that when you pitched agents in person at a conference, was it even helpful just to see their facial expressions when you pitched them on what the book was about? 

[00:09:32] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. You wanted to see if they were interested or glancing down at their phone. I think that what surprised me is. As writers, we love our stories and there's things that we think are the best part of our stories.

[00:09:48] Kelly Kearsley: And I was surprised that sometimes the things that were resonating were things that weren't even on my radar. Wow. So it was helpful to hear from agents was just that like they were calling out details that I hadn't called out, and they're more familiar with markets. They're keeping up on trends, and so I truly believe.

[00:10:05] Kelly Kearsley: That you can't write to trends. And I also believe that there's probably something in every novel that can kind of dovetail to a trend if you understand what they are. So kind of marrying that like business aspect to the creative piece and getting that information from agents was so important, but it was also nerve wracking to meet them.

[00:10:23] Kelly Kearsley: Oh yeah. Person. You feel like, I don't know, like you're meeting a celebrity. Yeah. And that's how, that's how they get treated from writers. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And I, I am pleased to say all the ones I met in person in KU were delightful and kind and normal human people who love books. So Good. Once you kind of realize that the, the pressure gets off a little bit.

[00:10:44] Nicole Meier: Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up because I. I'm a firm believer. I've been to so many conferences in my day and I've pitched in person, and I'm a firm believer at this point in the market and the climate we're in and the landscape of publishing that usually what happens when people pitch at conferences is not a signed contract.

[00:11:04] Nicole Meier: It is a firm way to find out reaction and feedback to your book. Yeah. So you're not really going to get like, oh, I scored an agent, I'm gonna get a deal. You're going to find out does this book have legs and what's the reaction? 

[00:11:17] Kelly Kearsley: And 

[00:11:17] Nicole Meier: you're getting 

[00:11:18] Kelly Kearsley: that reaction in real time instead of in query timeline, which might be like weeks or months until you hear back.

[00:11:24] Kelly Kearsley: So I would encourage, like if you have chance to pitch agents in person, by all means. Go and take it. And you might be nervous, but try not to be. Yeah. And just have that conversation. That was the other thing that I think was beneficial that I took away from in-person pitching was making it a conversation.

[00:11:43] Kelly Kearsley: Like it doesn't have to be a total sale. Absolutely. You know, even the agents, I pitched an agent that right up front, she was not interested and so I just used the time to like ask her, how can I strengthen this letter? What did she think other people would be interested in? And she ended up being super helpful.

[00:11:57] Nicole Meier: That's amazing, and I would really encourage people listening to think about going to a in-person conference. There are so many things that can happen locally in your region. Sometimes even libraries put things on. You can go big like Kelly did and go to Kauai, but you can also find things that are just a quick drive away and go for the afternoon instead of three days in a row.

[00:12:19] Nicole Meier: There are so many options out there, but there is. So much experience to be had by going to an in-person event and telling people what your book is about. 

[00:12:28] Kelly Kearsley: You also have to remember that you know what you want from your book and you kind of know what you want out of your publishing experience. And for instance, I did have one agent that had liked my writing style, but kind of wanted me to change the premise of my book to turn it say like born into a rom-com.

[00:12:44] Kelly Kearsley: And that just wasn't something that I felt like I wanted to do. Yeah. Even though I read rom-coms and like them, and that was just my choice. And I think you can make choices like that. And remember that you have agency in the process. At the end of the day, it still is your 

[00:12:57] Nicole Meier: work. You're the creator. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:58] Nicole Meier: For sure. This is why you're in it, to tell the story you came to tell, not what you think you have to do just to sell it. 

[00:13:04] Kelly Kearsley: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:05] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Okay. So now that we talked about querying and pitching, I wanna go backwards a little bit and talk about your actual creative process. I know from working with you and from being your friend, is that you strengthen the book.

[00:13:18] Nicole Meier: I mean, you really spent a lot of thoughtful time and months strengthening what you had on the page, and I know a big part of that is your literary village. So I want you to maybe share a little bit, tell us about the importance you think a literary village has. Maybe the types of people who were in your village that really helped you get through the process.

[00:13:39] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah, I think having a literary community is probably the number one most important thing. And when I started making it known that I wanted to write a book, people would say, oh, well you need to find a group or you need critique partners. And I'm like, but how? Where are these hidden people writing And I'm gonna meet, like how will I find them?

[00:13:59] Kelly Kearsley: And I think just like with anything, it starts by just putting it out there. I have two funny anecdotes. One. I decided to like be brave and just started telling lots of people that I was gonna write a book and there was a guy standing in my driveway watching his son jump on our trampoline. He was my neighbor, but I hadn't met him.

[00:14:17] Kelly Kearsley: And he asked me what I did and I said, oh, I'm a writer, but also I'm gonna write my first fiction book. And he happened to be a writer working on his fiction book, and he was my neighbor. So I spent a summer meeting with him every Wednesday. Awesome. And he was probably like the first time I ever shared writing with someone and it was so valuable.

[00:14:32] Kelly Kearsley: Another one of the first people I told was. Your partner in bookwork, Gretchen? Yeah. And we were meeting about something completely unrelated, something related to my regular work. And I got up the courage, tell her I also wanted to write fiction and she led me to Nicole. So I think putting out there the idea that you are writer, that you wanna write a book is intimidating to people.

[00:14:55] Kelly Kearsley: And you might have a little bit of imposter syndrome. Mostly people are so excited. Yes. And they immediately think of all the ways that they can help you. You start to create a network really organically. So via Nicole, I took a class. The people in that class became my critique group. I also met a bunch of authors in Bend From going to conferences, I've met other writers who I'm now still in contact with.

[00:15:19] Kelly Kearsley: It starts like that. I think I've noticed other people kinda building community online. Substack iss a great place to start meeting writers. I think people are hungry for connection. I might be one of their rare, like, extroverted writers, so I actually don't like being lonely in my office, writing by myself all the time.

[00:15:40] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. So sharing the process, talking to people, commiserating, celebrating, it's all so important and it, it actually kind of makes the whole adventure worth it. 

[00:15:51] Nicole Meier: Yeah. I love that you share all that and it's like a snowball effect. Mm-hmm. Mean you really told one person and then it snowballed into a couple people.

[00:15:58] Nicole Meier: Yeah. And then snowballed into a group, and then traveling. You met more people and it's just bringing people along. Yes. There's gonna be some people who don't feel like quote your people. Yeah. You really built that Kelly within like two years. Yeah. It's a big community. 

[00:16:13] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. And I think you get comfortable in your writer skin and that was something, I am a writer in my day job, I used to be a journalist and now I freelance ghost write.

[00:16:22] Kelly Kearsley: And I was nervous to tell people I was writing a fiction because I was kind of embarrassed that they would think I couldn't do it. Oh, wow. Or that they would think I was bad at. I don't, who knows what. I thought it was silly, but also I think something that people really. Get is just what you're telling someone your big goals, you know, what are they gonna say?

[00:16:40] Kelly Kearsley: And I think just like getting comfortable saying it over and overnight, you know, and just telling everyone, hopefully not in an obnoxious way, no. But, um. But you know, in no way that just lets people give you a resource. Yeah. If they have it. And I think writers are an exceptionally generous community.

[00:16:58] Nicole Meier: Absolutely. 

[00:16:59] Kelly Kearsley: And I would be happy to talk or help writers who are looking how to start. And I ran into the same with others, so 

[00:17:06] Nicole Meier: Yeah, I totally agree. My other writer, girlfriend and I kind of giggle about something that happened so long ago, like 15 years ago. We were in a local grocery store. And a guy walked in and for some reason we started talking about books and writing, and my girlfriend and I were writers and he was like, I am a novelist.

[00:17:24] Nicole Meier: And he had nothing published, but he handed us a business card. That's a novelist. And that's the kind be that guy. Yeah. Yeah. That's the kind of guy that's like, well, I don't know if he's really growing his community. But if there's a difference between being that guy with, I'm handing your my card, and the person who comes in and says, I am trying to write a book, if you know anybody else, right?

[00:17:43] Nicole Meier: Can you introduce me? I'd love to meet them. There's two ways to go about it, right? Yes. 

[00:17:48] Kelly Kearsley: Also, maybe just assume a teeny bit of the confidence of a guy who would hand you a business card that said novelist, 

[00:17:55] Nicole Meier: we just still outta can too. Yeah, no shame on being a novelist just on like really going there with the printed cards before you were published, right?

[00:18:05] Nicole Meier: Yeah. My gosh. That's about, that's probably about like visualization and like mm-hmm. Manifesting. Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned something that I actually would love for you to share with the listeners is you started. Your writing career in the nonfiction space? Mm-hmm. Can you talk a little bit about your background in that and then if it helped or hurt your writing process when it came to novels?

[00:18:27] Nicole Meier: Yep. 

[00:18:28] Kelly Kearsley: So I have been writing for my whole career. I went to journalism school and started off in journalism. My first jobs were in newspapers, which I really loved. I used to write for a business team in Tacoma, and I spent a teeny bit of time at the AP and Seattle Times, and then a longer amount of time at the News Trition.

[00:18:46] Kelly Kearsley: And so I've been around writers writing for work for a long time. Then when newspapers became a little bit less viable, I switched into freelance writing, which I've been doing for about 14 years. I think having a career as a writer was obviously very beneficial in that. There's some stuff that I've just learned over 20 years of writing about like the mechanics of sentences and how to structure stories.

[00:19:14] Kelly Kearsley: Also really important, like building up that writing endurance and that writing muscle. 

[00:19:18] Nicole Meier: Yes. 

[00:19:18] Kelly Kearsley: That's a really good point. Yeah, like I've spent many hours writing every day, so that component of writing a novel didn't freak me out. One thing that I wish I could impart on more people is I've worked with so many editors, I've had people rip apart my writing in really horrific ways.

[00:19:37] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah, 

[00:19:37] Nicole Meier: same. 

[00:19:39] Kelly Kearsley: And I kind of adopted mentality a long time ago where I'm not that married. To the word, and I think that was a little freeing in the novel writing process. I felt like I could get something down if it was bad. I wasn't that worried about it. I knew I could come back and fix it. So I think that's helpful.

[00:19:58] Kelly Kearsley: There were also a couple habits that actually had to, I don't know if unlearn is the right word, but I needed to change number one, because I come from a non-fiction background, specifically journalism. It's been hammered into me to not apply emotion to people. Oh, right. Oh my gosh. You know, like in journalism, like you don't even wanna use verbs other than said Yes.

[00:20:20] Kelly Kearsley: 'cause you might be like inferring Yeah. How someone said something. Putting your own, yeah. I'm putting my own perspective on it. Wow. And Nicole knows this 'cause she did a dev edit on my first draft. I had to do a lot of work to get emotions right into my characters and lots of layering. And adding and learning, and I bought the emotional thesaurus.

[00:20:41] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah, good. And I have a distinct memory of looking at my book and feeling like, well, I just can't assume that I know what these people are thinking and feeling. And it's like, no, no, no. I have to. Like, that's what I have to do. 

[00:20:54] Nicole Meier: I remember just being like, Kelly, more interiority. More interiority. What are they thinking?

[00:20:58] Nicole Meier: What are they feeling? Well, how are they reacting? We can't assume 

[00:21:00] Kelly Kearsley: we have to ask them. So what was a struggle for me that actually became fun. I started to really, it actually was really freeing. I was like, oh, I'm not boxed in by kind of the reporting component. I can have these people do whatever I want and 

[00:21:15] Nicole Meier: go 

[00:21:16] Kelly Kearsley: overboard.

[00:21:16] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah, you, I mean they can be cra The crazier the better. Right? Yeah. You can take it way beyond. Mm-hmm. What 

[00:21:22] Nicole Meier: you're used to taking it. Yeah. Nonfiction. 

[00:21:24] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. Another lesson I learned that I do think falls into this is. Because I wrote for work, I knew like the only way that writing gets done is when you dedicate time to it.

[00:21:35] Kelly Kearsley: And I floundered around for a little bit getting my novel off the ground because I viewed it, I don't know, as a hobby or as something that was like extraneous to the other writing work I was doing. At some point, I had a bit of like a, a revelation where I realized this has to be a priority and I have to block time for it, just like I would block time for work.

[00:21:54] Kelly Kearsley: And so really like the bulk of my novel writing I got done. Over like the summer and the fall, and I blocked out in my calendar two to three hours every single day and sat down and did it no matter what my workload was. And that's how it got done. And so I think just kind of understanding there's just a real labor component.

[00:22:14] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. To the whole thing. You just have to be like a butt in a seat cranking out those words. Even when you don't want to. Yeah. It's a joyful process, but it, there's times when I would have rather been having drinks with friends. Yeah. Well, because 

[00:22:27] Nicole Meier: Kelly, I mean, you're writing all day long Yes. For your clients.

[00:22:29] Nicole Meier: Yeah. The nonfiction space, and then you are working on your book, and now I know you folded in. You're very witty, humor filled, observant, substack on top of that. So really you kind of have these different buckets that you're touching. Yeah, constantly. And side note listeners, if you are not following Kelly on Substack, you can thank me later, but you need to follow her.

[00:22:54] Nicole Meier: What's your handle over there? Does that make sense? Yeah, but what's your name? Is it just Oh, at, yeah, at Kelly Kiley. Okay, perfect. So her publication is, does that make sense? And I'm telling you, it is the best read. It's so much fun. Okay. So anyway, thank you. Continue. So you really were touching and you still are three different buckets of writing.

[00:23:13] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. Every day almost. Yeah. And it's funny, I'm starting work on my second book while I'm a bit of a lull while we're waiting for revisions to come in on the, the first one. And I'm realizing I'm back to square one, where if I don't block out time for this second book, in no giant surprise, it won't get done.

[00:23:29] Kelly Kearsley: So prioritizing it and treating it a bit like a job is super important. 

[00:23:34] Nicole Meier: I think that is the best advice you can give people is put it in your calendar, treat it like a job, pretend you're getting paid for it even if you're not. Yep. And also, I kind of wanna back up and really emphasize one thing Kelly shared was.

[00:23:46] Nicole Meier: You learned how to receive feedback from editors way back early on in your nonfiction days. Mm-hmm. And I cannot stress how important that is. I mean, I always tell people my first job was writing two paragraphs a week for the local Visitors Association on their travel block, and I just learned to get feedback from an editor.

[00:24:05] Nicole Meier: I learned to talk to an audience. I learned to see what my voice was. I didn't even know what my voice was back then. And so I really encourage anyone listening. If you're working on long fiction novels and you've never written for an audience before, start a newsletter, start a blog, see if you can just get a part-time gig for like me, your local visitors association in your town.

[00:24:26] Nicole Meier: I mean, mm-hmm. Do anything you can do to learn to work with an editor, an audience, and your own voice. 

[00:24:32] Kelly Kearsley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I found myself getting to the point, well, so one of the first bits of feedback I ever got, it was a new intern at a small newspaper. And one of the best editors there just looked at my lead, were sentence of the story and said, this effing sucks.

[00:24:47] Kelly Kearsley: Oh my gosh. And I remember just being like, devastated. I'm so embarrassed. And I think her words were maybe, you know, harsh. Although newspapers love to swear. So I actually ended up being very sweary when I was in that industry. But what it taught me was like she was just delivering feedback in an efficient way.

[00:25:04] Kelly Kearsley: It was not that personal. It needed to be better. I improved it. And yeah, we moved along. I think that's hard to say. With fiction writing, it can feel very personal, but one thing that I think that fiction writers could think about sometimes, particularly new ones, is that you are writing for yourself or you're writing for readers.

[00:25:22] Kelly Kearsley: And so when readers are giving you feedback, that is something to consider. You don't have to act on all feedback, but it is interesting to listen to readers and remember that the thing you're creating is for other people's enjoyment. Absolutely. As well as your own. So you want it to shine? 

[00:25:41] Nicole Meier: Absolutely.

[00:25:42] Nicole Meier: Okay. So we're gonna fast forward a little bit. Speaking of making your work shine, you made your work shine enough to catch an agent. So I glossed over at the beginning 'cause I wanted to rush into all the things query, but can you just kind of back up and talk about two things for us. One is what it was like to get the call from the agent and what happened next, and then what it was like to go on submission to publishers.

[00:26:06] Kelly Kearsley: So right after I told Nicole maybe I was gonna put this book in a drawer, I then ended up talking to the person who became my agent on a long call. 

[00:26:16] Nicole Meier: Can you say who it is? Since it's in post marketplace? 

[00:26:19] Kelly Kearsley: It's, yep. It's Jamie Carr from the book group who I adore. And a couple takeaways I had from that first call was that we really clicked, when we first started talking, it was comfortable.

[00:26:30] Kelly Kearsley: We were on the same vibe. She's really fun. We were laughing. And I felt like this was someone I could work with for a long time. 

[00:26:38] Nicole Meier: Amazing. 

[00:26:38] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. And I still feel like that she's so lovely and I was curious to hear what she was gonna say because like I said, I'd talked to other agents at that point. I had a few full requests out but had not heard back.

[00:26:53] Kelly Kearsley: And I'd also gotten feedback that maybe other agents thought that they didn't know how to market my book. So I did have real questions about like what was her vision for marketing? Where did she kind of see it landing? And it was really fun to hear her response. And I think for listeners out there, something to keep in mind is the subjectiveness of this process can be tough, but it can also be really encouraging because where one person may not see a spot for a book, another person does.

[00:27:23] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. And so, yeah, Jamie and I clicked right away. I. I kind of circled back as you do with the other agents that had my book, but I was really hoping to sign with her and we did 

[00:27:33] Nicole Meier: Amazing. Yeah, I mean, that's such a good point, listeners. I hope you're paying attention just because one person says, I can't market this book, or There is no market for this book.

[00:27:42] Nicole Meier: Literally someone the very next day could say, I know how to market this book and I know who I could sell it to. 

[00:27:46] Kelly Kearsley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it was fun. I think another thing to keep in mind is it is thrilling and flattering to be on that call, but you do have to put on your business hat. And kind of keep your own interests in mind.

[00:28:00] Kelly Kearsley: You wanna consider that thing like, is this someone you think you could work with? Are you aligned with their vision? Do you like what they're saying? Yeah. Do you like how they're saying it? Yeah. You know, again, this is person's gonna be kind of your first editor in the industry. So you wanna know what they think of your book.

[00:28:14] Kelly Kearsley: Are they asking for changes that you would wanna do that you think will make the manuscript better? So I ended that call. Super thrilled. Happy with the direction. So then we embarked on two rounds of revisions, but those are quick as well. They were quick and we were kind of aiming to get out on submission like before the summer slowdown.

[00:28:34] Kelly Kearsley: I don't know if that's an industry term, but we get it and people are checked out a little bit maybe in July, in August to, yeah. And so we thought the book was close enough that we could make some changes and get it out there. Really enjoyed those revisions. I think you get to a point with your own work where you kind of count the forest through the trees.

[00:28:52] Kelly Kearsley: And I was at a point where I just needed someone else to tell me like, what does this need next to level it up? Yeah. So Jamie really did that. We went out on submission in May, and that is also another crazy process. Jamie did an awesome job of just kind of guiding me through what to expect, and 

[00:29:11] Nicole Meier: which, by the way, I'm gonna interrupt.

[00:29:12] Nicole Meier: Mm-hmm. I've worked with enough writers to say that's not the case across the board. I've had authors who just signed with the first agent, even though they didn't really necessarily like them. Then maybe nine months later, the agent would say, oh yeah, I put you on submission. But they like never told the writer, they didn't know who they were going on submission to.

[00:29:30] Nicole Meier: Yeah. So you really struck it up with someone who kept you in the loop pretty tightly. 

[00:29:35] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah, and so professional and things that I just so appreciated. I mean, I've read lots of stuff about kind of what to expect from agents, but kinda understanding who they're submitting to, getting a sense of the timeline, their strategy, things like that.

[00:29:50] Kelly Kearsley: We were really lucky and excited to hear back from an editor just five days after we went out on submission. 

[00:29:57] Nicole Meier: Incredible. 

[00:29:57] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. Who was interested in the book and so we ended up on a call with that person a couple days after that. 

[00:30:04] Nicole Meier: And you knew by talking to the editor of the publishing house that they also got you and got your book, because that's important, 

[00:30:12] Kelly Kearsley: right?

[00:30:12] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. I think because I have a one-on-one experience, I can't, I don't know if this is advice, but it's more of an observation. I have felt like when I have met with both my agent and then with Jackie, the editor at Grand Central, that we were really simpatico, like we were aligned with each other. I would say authors treasure the conversations you're having with people who enjoyed your book and are just as excited about it as you are, and that is like such a motivating thing to know that you created something that resonated with someone.

[00:30:43] Kelly Kearsley: I really underestimated that feeling of talking to someone about my book and hearing their take and how they would wanna make it better, but also what they liked about it was just really special and exciting. So we had another great call with Grand Central and that is who ended up buying the book.

[00:30:59] Nicole Meier: Amazing. Congratulations. I am so thrilled for you. Yeah. We've chatted a lot offline too, just about like how much fun it was to get these people so excited about your book and you particularly as an author, and. I mean, you just are in the sweet spot right now if you guys are working on this book. But like you said, you're also thinking about your next book.

[00:31:19] Nicole Meier: Did the publisher give you a rough idea of what year your, your book's coming out in? 'cause we know they don't come 

[00:31:25] Kelly Kearsley: out in the same year. I'm scheduled for. Like early 2027. 

[00:31:31] Nicole Meier: Amazing. Which is very typical, right? Yeah. So for anyone out there listening books and film, it's kind of the same. Like, yes, it gets made this year, but it's probably not gonna hit the shelves for a couple of years.

[00:31:41] Kelly Kearsley: Yeah. And I don't know if it was a surprise to me, but I definitely come from industries that move really fast. I've worked in journalism, I've worked in startups, in a lot of tech, and something I'm learning is that the ability to slow down is actually quite a gift. That urgency doesn't always mean importance.

[00:31:57] Kelly Kearsley: Like something can be very important and you're dedicating time to it and that is good. I actually think that's something throughout the whole process, querying writing, everything that is just gonna take time. So we will take the time to make revisions and we have the time, and we'll create something that I hope is even better than what we have now, and that really resonates with readers.

[00:32:19] Kelly Kearsley: But there is no hard and fast. Deadline for any of this. 

[00:32:24] Nicole Meier: Yeah, it's a long game for sure. It's a 

[00:32:25] Kelly Kearsley: long game and that is hard for me 'cause I play a lot of short games, but it's been a really good practice to get into. Yeah, to just settle into the work, to think deeply about it and really kind of try hard to make it better.

[00:32:40] Nicole Meier: Okay, so now that we know your book's coming out in 2027, can you say the genre, and I always push people to say, and you're, you know, this from working with me, is like, what sort of tone does your book strike? Or what kind of mm-hmm. You know, story message, because I know about a, but can you just share what kind of books you write?

[00:32:58] Kelly Kearsley: Yes. So the book that's coming out is called Talented and Gifted. The genre is Upmarket Fiction. We would call this, um, we did call this, uh, humorous heartfelt fiction. It's a story of a woman in midlife who has suffered a big setback, something that's knocked her fully off track. My main character was a successful mom blogger who got canceled on the internet, and she's needing to restart her life in a startup.

[00:33:28] Kelly Kearsley: And so I was pleased to hear from people while we were on submission that stories about like midlife women and stories of reinvention are, I don't know if they're having a moment, but people are interested in them right now. 

[00:33:40] Nicole Meier: They're totally having a moment, and you bring in all of your intimate knowledge of the startup world, the tech world, the bro culture, right?

[00:33:48] Nicole Meier: All of that stuff. So. It's a phenomenal read, and I won't make you give too much more away about it, but I think that that's enough for readers to know, like, oh yeah, this is definitely my type of book. I'm so happy that you are sharing all of this, what I call soup to nuts with us about where you started, how your process evolved, all the different kinds of writing you do now, the book deal.

[00:34:12] Nicole Meier: But what I wanna do is wrap this up with. The people that are out there right now who are just getting through their first manuscript and they're thinking about where do I belong in the marketplace? What kind of writer am I? What kind of publishing path seems right for me? What is sort of your gut instinct advice that comes to top of mind for you?

[00:34:34] Kelly Kearsley: When I look back over the past couple years and how this has all evolved, that I thought I was doing one thing, which was writing a book. But what I was really doing was reinventing my life. And I think that when you approach this book writing from like, like this podcast is called the Whole Writer. So when you approach it from your whole self, when you come at it from a community point of view, when you come out from a skills point of view, when you come at from like, how do I prioritize this dream that I have amidst all the other things we have to do.

[00:35:11] Kelly Kearsley: What you end up with in the end, whether you have an agent or a book deal, is this amazing creative life that you've created that's totally different from where you started and so much better. And I think that has been kind of my number one takeaway to like, not sound cheesy, but like the journey of it has been as valuable as the end goal.

[00:35:33] Kelly Kearsley: And I'm still on.

[00:35:38] Kelly Kearsley: Hard when you're stuck on that end goal when you're like, this is what I want, and it's taking a long time to sometimes focus on what are the smaller milestones in between? What is this process giving you that you haven't had in the past because it's something that you sacrifice a lot for. You also get a lot out of it, or I hope that you do 

[00:36:02] Nicole Meier: incredible.

[00:36:03] Nicole Meier: I mean, really that is so powerful. You set out to create a thing, but what you wound up doing was creating a whole different kind of creative life for yourself. 

[00:36:12] Kelly Kearsley: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:13] Nicole Meier: Beautiful. I love it. Oh my gosh. Okay, so I know that you're very open and available, so if someone wanted to maybe send you a message or follow you, tell listeners how they can find you.

[00:36:25] Kelly Kearsley: Sure. So Substack is a great way. I'm on Substack and I have a newsletter that goes out weekly, although it's on a tiny hiatus right now while I move houses. And I'm on Instagram. I responded direct messages on Instagram as well. How do they find you On Instagram? At Kelly Ley. 

[00:36:41] Nicole Meier: Okay. 

[00:36:42] Kelly Kearsley: And I have a website, kelly ley.com that you can message me through as well.

[00:36:46] Nicole Meier: Great. And I will put all of that in the show notes. Kelly, I'm so thrilled for you and I'm so happy that you're sharing this experience with the listeners. So I would encourage all of you to follow Kelly. Like I said, especially on substack. It will just make your whole week when you get that newsletter.

[00:37:01] Nicole Meier: And thank you again for being here. 

[00:37:03] Kelly Kearsley: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. 

[00:37:05] Nicole Meier: Okay. It was fun. Yeah. Okay, listeners, thank you so much and we'll see you again on the whole writer.

[00:37:14] Nicole Meier: If you want to check out my coaching programs for fiction writers, visit nicolemeier.com. That's M-E-I-E-R. And if you like this episode, I'd love you to take a minute to leave a rating and review for this podcast. This will help more writers like you to discover the show and to get going on their writing journey.

[00:37:35] Nicole Meier: Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, happy writing everyone.