72. What Happens When You're Given Freedom to Write with Amanda Vano

In this episode, I sit down with author Amanda Vano. After receiving a workplace grant for her creative goals, Amanda shares how having dedicated time and accountability accelerated her writing journey from someone with no formal creative training to a writer who secured literary representation.

Our conversation explores how shifting from a scarcity mindset to one of creative freedom allowed Amanda to take risks, immerse herself in the writing community, and focus on craft development rather than financial pressure. She's also sharing some well-earned tips for writers. Tune in to hear more.

Find more on Amanda Vano here.

Find more on Camille Pagan here.

Find more on Nicole Meier here.

Transcript

THE WHOLE WRITER EP 72 - What Happens When You're Given Freedom to Write with Amanda Vano

[00:00:00] Amanda Vano: I don't think you can write a book. If you don't love your idea, you're gonna lose motivation. Even though I spent so many, like Saturdays that are super sunny and beautiful in a library, it never felt like a sacrifice really, because I know that I'm meant to do this and I love it, and if I give up, then it feels like I'm just giving up a part of myself.

[00:00:24] Amanda Vano: So. It's never been hard to not give up. The work itself is hard, but I knew I would keep going.

[00:00:38] Nicole Meier: Welcome to the whole writer, A place where we talk about what it means to show up as a writer, not just a better writer or a more productive writer or a published writer, but a whole one. Someone who's grounded in their voice, in their community, in their creative path, even when the world tells them to hustle, compare, or conform.

[00:00:59] Nicole Meier: I'm Nicole Meier, a multi published author and book coach who believes that nurturing the person behind the page is just as important as refining the words on it. Each week we'll explore the terrain of riding life with honesty, warmth, and practical wisdom, creating space for you to write from a place of wholeness rather than depletion.

[00:01:19] Nicole Meier: Whether you're drafting your first manuscript or publishing your fifth book, you'll find conversation and companionship for the journey here. So settle in, bring your questions and your curiosity, and let's discover what it means to write and live with authenticity and purpose. Hi everybody. Welcome on in.

[00:01:41] Nicole Meier: We have a special guest today that I am thrilled for personally because Amanda Vow and I have worked together and it has been, gosh, almost two years since I have the pleasure of dipping into her stories before anyone else could read them. So this is personally very fun for me. Welcome, Amanda. 

[00:01:59] Amanda Vano: Hi. Thank you for having me.

[00:02:01] Amanda Vano: It's great to be here with you again and see your face. Just from our book coaching days. 

[00:02:06] Nicole Meier: Oh my gosh. It's so good. And before we jump into all things, because you have so much to share, I wanted to share your bio with everybody. So Amanda lives in Western Illinois with her husband and two dogs, Gus and Simon.

[00:02:19] Nicole Meier: She's an avid reader. Check out her sporadically updated Instagram for books she likes to read. And serves on the board of trustees for her towns library. If she's not reading or writing, she's probably watching gymnastics, traveling, rehabbing baby raccoons, or spending time with her boisterous Italian and Mexican family.

[00:02:39] Nicole Meier: Best bio ever. 

[00:02:41] Amanda Vano: I haven't updated us since I had my daughter, so I do live with my daughter too. But yeah. Thank you for reminding me to update my bio. 

[00:02:49] Nicole Meier: Yeah, and look at all the things that you have done. By the way, in two years, I mean, written books gotten an agent, which we'll get to, had a baby, expanded your family regular job.

[00:03:01] Nicole Meier: I mean, really? 

[00:03:02] Amanda Vano: Yes, I know I'm a completely different person than I was. It's crazy. But the one constant is I keep reading, keep writing. So that is important. Yeah. Which 

[00:03:13] Nicole Meier: I love. Okay, so listeners, just to fill you in, because I feel like this is kind of a very fun summer bit of content for the podcast. The reason this podcast came about, I was always hoping to have Amanda on to talk about her other journey 'cause it's incredible.

[00:03:30] Nicole Meier: But what really fueled this to move faster and to get us to publish it faster is that I mentioned Amanda on Substack notes. And for those of you that don't know what that is, it's sort of the social media portion of Substack. And I talked about how her employer basically chose her and pay for her to learn how to write a novel.

[00:03:51] Nicole Meier: And people lost their minds. Amanda, how in the world did you get your employer to support your passion project? 

[00:03:58] Amanda Vano: So it's actually a grant that my employer offers every year to, I think, 10 people. And it can be up to $10,000. And so I think thousands of people apply. You write an essay. Describing your passion is and how this grant would help you pursue it and what the passion means to you.

[00:04:20] Amanda Vano: And it also comes with the money. You also receive nine paid days off in addition to any paid time off. The firm already offers you with holidays and your paid time off package. So it's, it really is like almost a whole other two weeks. So. I had to write an essay about what it meant to me and why I would need the money in order to make it happen.

[00:04:46] Amanda Vano: And honestly, when I applied, I wasn't really sure, like I had already started writing, but I knew that I like to have structure. And I had seen you advertised as a giveaway on like one of the Instagrams I followed about book coaching. And I had never heard of book coaching, but I was like, this sounds great, because it was one-on-one.

[00:05:09] Amanda Vano: And it included developmental edits, which I knew at the time, like, oh, developmental editing. That's something I should definitely look into. And so I just used what was on your website to help craft my essay. And I remember I started it out by just saying, have you ever read a book or looked at a piece of art or listened to music that just made you feel so sad because you love it so much and you'll know that you'll never create anything That great.

[00:05:35] Amanda Vano: Hmm. So good. Okay. I'm paraphrasing here, but I knew I said something about that 'cause that's how I felt like I was reading so much and I had this knowledge that I wanted to write and I had started writing, but I was just like, I need something to like kickstart so that my abilities were closer aligned to what my taste was.

[00:05:55] Amanda Vano: And so I was like one-on-one coaching. That sounds great. Sign me up. Of course, I was like, well, if I can get some financial help with this, that would be great because not everyone can afford to hire a book coach or even to hire a developmental editor. And so I knew it was an investment I wanted to make, but it was an opportunity for me to be able to make that investment sooner.

[00:06:16] Nicole Meier: And I was gonna jump in there, Amanda, when you reached out to me for the very first time over email and said, I'm writing a book. I had love to get accountability and developmental edits, but I'm waiting on to see if I won a grant from my employer. And honestly, Amanda, I was like, okay, good luck with that because it sounds like such a pipe dream to have an employer pay for someone's work, no matter how talented they are, no matter how passionate they are.

[00:06:42] Nicole Meier: But I was. Over the moon excited for you when it happened? 

[00:06:47] Amanda Vano: Well, I think maybe by that time they had reached out to my boss, because I think they had to get permission from like your direct report to give you that time off. And so that was probably when I reached out. So I had an idea that like I was in the final round.

[00:07:01] Amanda Vano: But yeah, I had the same thought when I applied, but like, all right, well there are people who are applying to like do volunteer work, like yes, going to like rebuild after her, like stuff like that. So I was like, this is more for my personal fulfillment. So I didn't think I had a shot, but yeah, then they picked me and yeah, it definitely changed the trajectory of my writing career.

[00:07:21] Nicole Meier: Did they give you a certain amount of time that this would be helpful during, or that was up to you? 

[00:07:27] Amanda Vano: I think I had a year to use the grant money and to use the time off, and I think it's like with any time off, I could just use it as long as it wasn't interfering with any of my job. So like I wouldn't take time off during like our busiest season or something.

[00:07:42] Amanda Vano: But yeah, I didn't have any trouble using the time or the money within the timeframe specified. 

[00:07:49] Nicole Meier: Okay. And without getting too specific, can you tell the listeners what kind of job you have? Are you in tech? 

[00:07:55] Amanda Vano: I work in an internal IT for a firm that also does technology services. So it's like it for technologists in some sense.

[00:08:05] Amanda Vano: But my role isn't actually super technical. But yeah, I guess I'm in technology. Yes. 

[00:08:11] Nicole Meier: And when the grant was first introduced to employees, did you get a sense this is because they wanted their employees to. Really go after a better work-life balance or a better self of wellbeing or a better sense of creativity.

[00:08:26] Nicole Meier: What was your impression? 

[00:08:28] Amanda Vano: I think that the company I worked for is very aware that if your employees are personally fulfilled, they have a lot more to give to their job and to the company. And so this grant, I was like, I don't know how many years they've been doing it, but I was not the first class or group to receive the grant.

[00:08:44] Amanda Vano: So there'd been people before me. There's been people after me. And I think the company I work for as a whole, they really do value the work-life balance, at least what what I can see in my role. And I think that they just want their employees to be happy, both because they do care about the people that they employ, but then also it is better for business when your employees are content and it's cheaper to retain employees than it is to hire new ones.

[00:09:11] Amanda Vano: There's a lot of benefits both for the employee and for the employer in having these types of programs. Incredible. 

[00:09:18] Nicole Meier: You can see why people on Substack lost their minds. They all wanted to work for a company like this. 

[00:09:24] Amanda Vano: Yeah. I wonder if there are other companies that do this or if this is unique to mine.

[00:09:29] Amanda Vano: I've never looked into that, but I'm sure there are other companies that do something like this. There are, yeah. Whether it's as generous, but yeah, definitely like just do a search. It might not be well advertised within your company, like this was just something that is really put on our intranet. So if I wasn't going to seek out the information, I could have missed it.

[00:09:49] Nicole Meier: Okay. So fast forward to, you are awarded the grant money and a certain number of days to take for yourself, which I think is incredible. My first question to you is, how did having that financial safety net change your relationship with writing itself? You said you started writing before we got together.

[00:10:08] Nicole Meier: Did you find yourself taking maybe different creative risks or exploring themes you might have avoided otherwise? 

[00:10:15] Amanda Vano: So I think the biggest thing that changed for me was giving myself that structure and the pressure almost to make the most of the time and money I had, because it wasn't. An infinite amount of dollars and time and days.

[00:10:32] Amanda Vano: It was like you get this amount of money to use within this amount of time. So when I started working with you, we would set deadlines and I'd be like, I wanna give Nicole the best 25 pages I can give her so that I'm getting the return on this investment that the company's making for me. Whereas if I didn't have the money, like you're sort of writing at your own pace, you're not getting like real time feedback.

[00:10:54] Amanda Vano: So that was really helpful for me because. If I was kind of going off in a direction that wasn't gonna serve the story, we could reel it back sooner. Whereas if I had finished a whole manuscript and then sent it off for a developmental edit, there would've been a lot more work and it might've been overwhelming to me to get that much feedback and have to like break apart the manuscript.

[00:11:17] Amanda Vano: So I would say, I don't know if it let me took more risks, it actually made me. Feel less risky about what I was doing because I would be able to course correct more frequently throughout the process. Because I think I started working with you. I had maybe three chapters written, so it was like ground zero, like right from the beginning.

[00:11:35] Amanda Vano: So I think when I was taking risks, it allowed me to see if they were the right risks sooner. 

[00:11:41] Nicole Meier: Yeah, that sounds about right. For those of you listening, the way that Amanda and I worked together is that she did come to me with a loose framework of a story and some chapters under her belt, but then we met, I think twice a month for developmental edits and deadlines and strategy calls, and you did looking on the other side of it, you took it very seriously.

[00:12:04] Nicole Meier: You understood the assignment and you didn't. Have this laissez-faire sort of, oh, someone else is paying for it so I can do whatever I want. I mean, you really took advantage and you didn't squander the gift that you'd been given. 

[00:12:17] Amanda Vano: Yeah, and I had personal stake in the game too, so I think that even if I hadn't that, just the type of person I am, I'm very like budget conscious, so I wouldn't have squandered it regardless.

[00:12:27] Amanda Vano: But I had also committed to, like there were other things I did with the money besides just work with you, but. I knew I was also going to pay for a full developmental edit and like maybe three additional months of coaching. So I also had personal stake in the game, which I think also helped with that.

[00:12:45] Amanda Vano: But yeah, I'm definitely a student at heart, so having that sort of structured feedback was great for me. 

[00:12:51] Nicole Meier: Incredible. Okay. My next question is, is there anything that surprised you when you. Thinking back on your creative process, you know, once you were given the time and the space to fully immerse yourself in it, is there anything, looking back now that you've had some time to say, oh, that was kind of surprising?

[00:13:09] Amanda Vano: The biggest surprise for me is how much I value community and networking and actually getting together with fellow writers. Part of the grant money. I used to go to the Women's Fiction Writers Association conference in Chicago, and that is something that like in my day job when I have to go to like workshops and conferences, it's not my favorite thing.

[00:13:33] Amanda Vano: Like it's time away from my family and like it's a lot of talking about technology and I like technology, but like it's not my passion. It's something I do for work that I enjoy. So I was kind of like, eh, I don't know if this's gonna be my thing. Like I hate like structured networking events and Right. I hate conferences, but there was like a pitch event there.

[00:13:54] Amanda Vano: You were gonna be there. So I was like, what the heck? It's three hours from me. I may as well go. And it was so surprising I would've never gone if I had to pay for it 'cause I was spending my dollars wisely. But since I had this grant, I went ahead and took the risk and went and it was like I almost got emotional just reflecting on the conference.

[00:14:13] Amanda Vano: 'cause I was like. This is what it feels like to have found like-minded people to never run outta things to talk about. There was no sense of competitiveness. 'cause there's people looking for agents. There are people who are already agented, who have a huge back list, who are really popular and like have great careers.

[00:14:31] Amanda Vano: But like you would never know who is who and who's at what stage in their career. Just by talking to them, everyone is so welcoming, warm, and everyone wants to talk about what they're reading. Technology conference is like one of my worst nightmares. This was like my dream come true. So like that was by far the biggest surprise and it just showed me, like right now I'm at a season in life where I'm not traveling as much since I have a baby at home, but I'm like, that's something I need to prioritize and keep doing for as long as I have a technology career and a writing career, because it really just like filled my cup and was worth every penny.

[00:15:08] Nicole Meier: That makes me so happy. That was a really special conference. They haven't done it again. Hopefully they'll do it in the future, but it is true that the riding community, for the most part, is not competitive with one another, especially when they're gathering under the same roof, so to speak. And. Yeah, you can go have lunch or you know, a coffee with anyone.

[00:15:30] Nicole Meier: You could sit down at any table and say, Hey, I am a writer. What do you write? And no one's gonna turn you away. They, instead, they'll invite you to sit down and ask you about your work. And that's what's so special about gathering with other writers. So I'm so happy you mentioned that. 

[00:15:45] Amanda Vano: And that's when I met Carrie, who like, she's seriously one of like the funniest people I've ever met.

[00:15:51] Amanda Vano: And I follow her on Instagram now and I'm like, like Carrie, jt? Yes. Okay. Yes. And so you introduced me to her and like I met so many other people who I like, am still in contact with. And I don't know, it's just I've not been one to ever make friends easily and so it was like just, it was magic. Yeah. So great.

[00:16:11] Amanda Vano: I love it. 

[00:16:12] Nicole Meier: Okay, so that is really good encouraging to anyone listening. If you've never attended a writer's conference, I've talked about this before on the podcast, there are conferences where you can just pay by the afternoon. There are ones you can do virtually. There are ones you can travel to or just in your local area.

[00:16:28] Nicole Meier: I think they're worth it hands down to go to a conference because it just changes everything. You get in a room and you say, these are my people. These are book people. 

[00:16:38] Amanda Vano: Mm-hmm. Yep. 

[00:16:39] Nicole Meier: That was exactly my experience. Okay, so let's transition into the next question that I wanted to ask you is, did that absence of immediate financial pressure affect how you approached rejection or setbacks or anything in your process, maybe even when you started querying?

[00:16:57] Nicole Meier: Did it change anything for you? You know, some writers talk about, I wrote a book because I needed money. I mean, I really do say that. And you didn't have that right then. 

[00:17:07] Amanda Vano: Yeah, I would say when I first decided I wanted to write a book, my goal was to just finish it. And I had told myself like, you don't even have to worry about getting it published.

[00:17:16] Amanda Vano: And it wasn't until I realized like, no, okay, I think I can write a book, but I do wanna get it published. Where I was like, okay, I'm gonna need professional help. I don't have an MFA. I've read my whole life, like I don't have a degree, anything creative. I had no training. So I guess it changed how I approached it in that.

[00:17:35] Amanda Vano: Not only did I already have a day job, so it wasn't something I was doing to replace any income or like in hopes that I would quit my job, but it also allowed me to make a risk-free financial investment in myself and in that passion that I had for writing. And I definitely think I would've gotten there on my own, but it would've been smaller and it would've been for less amount of time, and it would've taken me longer.

[00:18:05] Amanda Vano: So I think it accelerated my learning, my skills, and I think it did accelerate my journey to getting an agent. I think it would've taken me so much longer to like learn everything I did from working with you if I had had to do it on my own. Just like reading craft books and like writers' groups and a developmental edit on like a full manuscript.

[00:18:28] Amanda Vano: That's just wasn't gonna be as valuable for me as the way we worked together was so. That was never my goal to like have it be my primary source of income, and then the fact that I didn't have to make the investment, didn't have to like dip into my personal savings account to like take that initial leap, just sped everything 

[00:18:47] Nicole Meier: up.

[00:18:48] Nicole Meier: Right? You really had a mindset of this isn't about financial pressure, this is more about freedom. What could someone take away from that? Because we do put the pressure on ourselves. Well, if you're gonna say it out loud that you're gonna be a writer and you're gonna tell people you're trying and get published, it immediately puts on pressure, whether that's financial or what have you.

[00:19:10] Nicole Meier: And I wonder if there's something that people could take away from the mindset that you allowed yourself to have. 

[00:19:15] Amanda Vano: Yeah, so it's two sides of a coin because while there wasn't financial pressure for me to churn out a bestseller, get an agent, get it published, I heard, I don't remember what podcasts I heard or what interview I read, but I heard treat writing like a job before.

[00:19:31] Amanda Vano: It is your job. And so I took that really seriously, especially two years ago. I was dual income, no kids. My time was my own, like I'm a homebody. So I was also conscious of the fact like if I do wanna start a family someday, like now is the time to get started and lay those habits and that foundation down.

[00:19:53] Amanda Vano: So sometimes pressure is a good thing because it will force you to act. But I would say for anyone listening who's considering whether or not to make a financial investment themselves. If it's something that you know you want, if you're going to treat it like you, would, you want to take like a class or go to get a degree, like it's just another goal that you set and start saving for.

[00:20:19] Amanda Vano: But I'm also very conscious, it's a privilege that I wasn't doing this to make money. My whole journey has been gifts and luck and privilege, so. I don't know that I have inspiring advice because it's not like I was in a financial situation where like I needed this for income, but I think having the pressure of knowing that I was making a financial investment really did serve me.

[00:20:45] Nicole Meier: Yeah, it's a mindset shift, but it's so funny because something stuck with me that you just said about. Having luck and timing and all the other things. And I'm saying in my head, no, Amanda, it's because you had heart. You had so much heart in the story. You had so much genuine intention when you came to your identity as a writer.

[00:21:06] Nicole Meier: And I think that that's something that needs to be pointed out to you and to anyone listening is if your heart is in it, you will find a way whether that's. Financially, emotionally, physically, geographically, you will find a way to take that step forward, and I witnessed you do that. It was really beautiful.

[00:21:25] Amanda Vano: Yeah, that is definitely true. I don't think you can write a book. If you don't love your idea, you're gonna lose motivation. I took it seriously and I loved it. Even though I spent so many, like Saturdays that are super sunny and beautiful, like in a library, um, looking outside, working on the book, it never felt like a sacrifice really, because I know that I'm meant to do this and I love it, and if I give up, then it feels like I'm just giving up a part of myself.

[00:21:57] Amanda Vano: So it's never been hard to not give up. The work itself is hard, but I knew I would keep going. 

[00:22:04] Nicole Meier: Yes. I agree with that. Okay, let's catch the listeners up. So you worked on this first manuscript with me. You really did learn how to structure and write a novel. You had the story, no problem. You just need to figure out how you wanted to tell it.

[00:22:19] Nicole Meier: You went off, and then I know you had other things happen after that. So can you say what happened after you wrote that story? 

[00:22:27] Amanda Vano: Yeah, so my first novel. I finished it and then I worked with you on a developmental edit, and then I first started pitching at WFWA, that conference, and then I queried soon after and I set a goal to send a hundred queries.

[00:22:41] Amanda Vano: It wasn't all at once. I did it in batches, but I did hit a hundred queries and I had like a few partial requests, no full requests, and then everything else was a rejection. I'd always heard writing advice from like when I would listen to author interviews or read them, like just when you're out on submission or when you're querying, just start working on the next thing.

[00:23:02] Amanda Vano: So I just took that advice and while I was waiting for those philosophy rejections to trickle in, I just started working on the next book and I took what I learned from the first book, which was a novel, kind of inspired by my mom, who was a single mother. I knew that the writing itself was good, but the concept was very, very hard for me to pick.

[00:23:25] Amanda Vano: It was sort of a quiet novel and I couldn't figure out the hook. So this is where like the business and marketing side of learning publishing kind of came into play because I was like, okay, this is what I think is not working. 'cause like when I read this pitch, I'm not excited by it. And I had reworked it and reworked it.

[00:23:44] Amanda Vano: I couldn't get it to a point where I was excited by it. So with my next book, I remember I was like listening to Politano on some podcast interview when she wrote Hella Beautiful. She said that she got the idea to like, I don't know if it was for the book 'cause it's a retelling of little women, but the basketball component in there.

[00:24:04] Amanda Vano: She was like. Yeah, I just had heard, write what you won't mind researching, like what are you interested in? What's sticking for you? And it was like a light bulb went off and I was like, oh my God. Like gymnastics. I love gymnastics. And hardly anyone has written a book with like a gymnastics theme and like, I don't even need to do research because I spend so much time reading about gymnastics and the summer Olympics were coming up and I knew it was like right time and right person to tell the story.

[00:24:35] Nicole Meier: And I'm gonna just interject that for anyone who knew you, including me, you had already been featuring gymnastics and all of your love for it on social media well before this book started. 

[00:24:46] Amanda Vano: Oh yeah. I had to actually take a break from social media at the Summer Olympics because I was spending so much time consuming gymnastics content.

[00:24:54] Amanda Vano: I was a gymnast myself. I just love it. So that was a light bulb moment for me. And it was something I could easily write a one sentence hook for. So I'm not saying write to the market or write to trends, but it does help to think of that concept and how you would pitch it upfront. I agree. That was the biggest change for me from my first knowledge, my second, my first novel, I was like, I'm just gonna start writing what I know.

[00:25:21] Amanda Vano: Second novel. I was like, what's something that I can pitch that will have people be interested that I also love and know? So I think that. Ultimately being able to write a query letter that was interesting with a strong hook. That was what got the attention of agents, which led to me actually getting an offer of representation.

[00:25:43] Nicole Meier: Which is so exciting. I was so thrilled for you because you really did demonstrate a writer who puts their passion not just about the craft of writing, but about the story you're dying to tell. You put that in both manuscripts, in my opinion. You and I talked about the second manuscript before you really got into the meat of it.

[00:26:02] Nicole Meier: We kind of strategized how you wanted to tell it, and then you were kind of off to the races because you had so much love for this story. So what was the reaction from the agent that signed you? Did she say why she loved it? 

[00:26:15] Amanda Vano: Yes. She definitely was very complimentary. She just really loved the fact of the strong female protagonist and how all the women in this story come together to overcome an insurmountable obstacle.

[00:26:30] Amanda Vano: But I knew from the beginning this was gonna be a gymnastics comeback story, but I also knew I wanted it to have a level deeper. And so the story honestly just kind of flowed out of me. Sure, there were things I cut and moved around and changed along the way. But my first novel I rewrote where I started probably 10 times, and with the second novel, I knew where to start and that didn't change.

[00:26:54] Amanda Vano: The version that's out on submission now is, it's the same first chapter that I wrote when I first sat down to write it. Not saying it's like perfect, but. It was just a different experience and I think part of it was 'cause I didn't have to worry about things like, oh, am I making sure that I'm showing interiority?

[00:27:11] Amanda Vano: 'cause your voice was in my head after every sentence. Like, what is she thinking? Like what's she feeling here? It was a much quicker process to get a draft that I could work with. 

[00:27:22] Nicole Meier: Yeah. And that's my hope for anyone that works. I. With a beta reader critique partner, a trade pages with a friend, hires a developmental editor is that you learn yourself as a writer, you learn how to write a book, so then the next one and the next one and the next one.

[00:27:39] Nicole Meier: You know how to do it. It's just a matter of telling the story in the way that you wanna tell it. 

[00:27:44] Amanda Vano: Yep. And reading so much along the way. And when you find yourself like really in a page turner, you're like, what is keeping me turning these pages? And how can I do that in my own way? Yes. Yeah, you taught me a lot of like how I think about reading even, even though we work together on writing.

[00:28:02] Amanda Vano: That's amazing. 

[00:28:03] Nicole Meier: Okay, so looking back, we know, uh, for the listeners out there, Amanda's on submission right now, so we're all gonna thank amazing good thoughts for her. But now you can have a moment to look back. You've written two complete novel manuscripts. Can you look at that process and think about.

[00:28:21] Nicole Meier: What you might have written if you had instead from the get go, been squeezing, writing into evenings or early hours in the weekends around a full-time job and a financial constraint, and not really having any kind of support system in your writing whatsoever. 

[00:28:38] Amanda Vano: Yeah, everything would've been different because I don't think I would have an agent yet.

[00:28:44] Amanda Vano: You can do this without paying money. You can get published without spending money on. A book coach, and I know plenty of people who've done it, but it would've taken me personally so much longer because you have to figure out, okay, which craft books am I gonna read and like, how does this apply to me and what specifically isn't working in my pages?

[00:29:08] Amanda Vano: And it's just a longer process. It's a great way to learn. Like I still read craft books, but having someone who is giving you real time feedback, it just. Accelerated the process for me. 

[00:29:22] Nicole Meier: Looking back, how do you think these novels might've been written if you were squeezing them into time and financial constraints?

[00:29:30] Amanda Vano: Oh yeah. And it would've taken me way longer to finish that first one. Like I might still be rewriting the first three chapters. Oh my gosh. Well, like, uh, I think I, I started writing in July and I started working with you and. December, January. So that's already like what, five, six months of rewriting the first three chapters.

[00:29:49] Amanda Vano: So at that pace, I would probably still be working on that one. So I was able to write that first book, and that was sort of like my mini MFA and then the second book. It was just so much faster because of that. So 

[00:30:02] Nicole Meier: right. Okay. I agree with all of that. I mean, you know, I've told you before, Amanda, I have a novel, my practice novel that lives in a drawer.

[00:30:10] Nicole Meier: I mean, so many of us need to know, do I have what it takes to write a full length manuscript? Can I learn all the things? Do I know or have I acquit myself with all of the tools and information and resources of how to even structure a book? So you're definitely not alone in that. For the listeners out there who are writing a book right now and thinking about strengthening the book.

[00:30:33] Nicole Meier: Considering what in the world their publishing path might be, what can you share with them that might be helpful or insightful or full of advice? 

[00:30:42] Amanda Vano: The first thing that I always hear, and it's like everyone says it comes to mind, is just don't give up. Because really the only people who aren't successful as artists or those who give up, whether it takes a year or 20 years, if it's something that you really care about and love, just stick with it.

[00:31:01] Amanda Vano: And then the second is, and it's just like, so everyone says this too, but finding your community. My first community was, I joined like a beta reader matchup through the shit. No one tells you about writing podcasts, and four out of the six of us are still exchanging pages to this day. How great. Yep. And so that was the first time I'd gotten feedback on my work.

[00:31:27] Amanda Vano: So. Community and not giving up. Those are the main two. And then reading, just reading like a writer, paying attention to what you love about books and figuring out why you love it and how you can incorporate those concepts into your own writing. And then if you do wanna be traditionally published and wanna get an agent, Camille Pagan took her career mastermind class and she had.

[00:31:55] Amanda Vano: Recommended for your next book. Write the query letter before you write the book. And that helps you find holes in your concept and in, not that you need to like outline if you're a panther, but it just helps you see like where the holes in this concept and how can I fill those in. And that's what I did with my second novel and I think it made all the difference.

[00:32:17] Nicole Meier: Incredible, and I will put all of these resources in the show notes listeners. Camille Pagan is a friend of mine and she runs an incredible mastermind about the career author mindset, and she always gathers a really lovely group of people for that, so I will for sure put that in the show notes. 

[00:32:36] Amanda Vano: That's how I met another gal that I exchanged pages with and we switched swapped manuscripts is like through her course, and I still am in touch with a lot of those people, so just all goes back to community, so.

[00:32:47] Amanda Vano: Great. 

[00:32:48] Nicole Meier: Okay, so let's recap those three or four things that you said, because those are really important, even though they're universal and we hear 'em time and again. I really want people to take it in and think of how they might incorporate some more of this into their life. So. The first one was don't give up, which is very important.

[00:33:08] Nicole Meier: The second one was find a community. And community can be just two people. It could be more than that, but find your writing community. And then the next one is Read like a writer. Brilliant. I love that so much. Amanda, how can people follow you? Because I know listeners are gonna be wanting to cheer you on as you go on submission and continue to write books.

[00:33:29] Nicole Meier: So is there a place that they can follow you? 

[00:33:31] Amanda Vano: Yeah, so I'm on Instagram. It's Mandy, M-A-N-D-Y, VNO, VANO, books. I have not updated this in a long time, but I'm gonna get back out there. Um, it's honestly started as just like a bookstagram, so I have like, it's good reviews, only, like only things I liked. Love it.

[00:33:50] Amanda Vano: But I also will post on there about like writing and books. I am reading on there as well. So that's where you can find me. Great. And you have an author website? I do. It's amanda van o.com. 

[00:34:04] Nicole Meier: Wonderful. Okay, Amanda, this was so great. I know you inspired people and it's really good for everyone to pull back the curtain and share with one another our process, how we got there, how we're pivoting or growing or strengthening our work.

[00:34:19] Nicole Meier: So thank you so much for being honest and your lovely, beautiful self. I am cheering for you all the way. Thank you so much for being here. No problem. Thanks Nicole. Okay, listeners, I'll see you next time on the whole writer.

[00:34:37] Nicole Meier: If you want to check out my coaching programs for fiction writers, visit nicole meier.com. That's M-E-I-E-R. And if you like this episode, I'd love you to take a minute to leave a rating and review for this podcast. This will help more writers like you to discover the show. And to get going on their writing journey.

[00:34:58] Nicole Meier: Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, happy writing everyone.