103. Writing for Love vs. Writing for Money: The Passion Pay Gap with Will Parker Anderson

What if your writing passion and your paid writing career aren’t meant to fully overlap?

Many novelists and memoir writers feel discouraged when their creative work doesn’t immediately translate into income. You love writing. You feel called to tell stories. But the reality of publishing, book deals, and building an author platform can make it feel like you’re falling behind financially while chasing creative fulfillment.

This episode explores the Passion Pay Gap — the emotional and financial space between what you love to write and what currently pays your bills.

I’m joined by Will Parker Anderson, senior editor at Penguin Random House and founder of Writer Circle, who offers a deeply encouraging and realistic perspective on:

• Why most writers won’t earn a full-time income from books alone
 • How your day job can support — not sabotage — your creative life
 • The myth of “getting paid to do what you love”
 • How to define success beyond book deals and advances
 • Making peace with seasons of slow creative progress
 • Practical ways to keep writing when life feels full

If you’ve ever wondered:

“Am I wasting my writing talent?”
“Should I quit if my books aren’t paying?”
“Is it possible to pursue publishing and still enjoy writing?”

This conversation will feel like a deep exhale.

Whether you're drafting your first novel, querying agents, writing memoir, or balancing writing with a full-time career, this episode offers clarity, permission, and a healthier way to think about money, creativity, and your long-term writing life.

Because being a writer isn’t just about landing a book deal.

It’s about building a meaningful body of work — in ways that fit your real life.

🎙️Find more on Will Parker Anderson here.

🎙️Find more on Nicole Meier here.

Transcript

The Whole Writer EP 103 - Will Parker Anderson

[00:00:00] Will Parker Anderson: What I like to tell writers is not to underestimate the power of your words across all the mediums at your disposal. Yes, the trophy, the thing we're all looking at is a book deal, but there is so much more opportunity that writers have at their fingertips. To bless, to inspire and help just by sharing words wherever you can.

[00:00:31] Nicole Meier: Welcome to the whole writer, a place where we talk about what it means to show up as someone who's grounded in their voice, in their community, and in their creative path. Even when the world tells them to hustle, compare, or conform. I'm Nicole Meyer, a multi published author and book coach who believes that nurturing the person behind the page is just as important as refining the words on it.

[00:00:56] Nicole Meier: In each episode, we'll explore the terrain of writing life with honesty, warmth, and practical wisdom, creating space for you to write from a place of wholeness rather than depletion. Whether you're drafting your first manuscript or publishing your fifth book, you'll find conversation and companionship for the journey here.

[00:01:18] Nicole Meier: So settle in, bring your questions and your curiosity, and let's discover together what it means to write and live with 

[00:01:26] Will Parker Anderson: authenticity and purpose.

[00:01:31] Nicole Meier: Hi listeners, before we jump into my conversation with today's guest, I wanted to share his bio. I also want to mention that Will's perspective is rooted in his faith and whether or not that's your worldview, I do think you'll find his thoughts on the writing life genuinely encouraging. I know I do. Will Parker Anderson is a senior editor at WaterBrook and Molt.

[00:01:53] Nicole Meier: No, IM Prince of Penguin. Random House Christian. Many writers feel shut out, intimidated or alone in their calling, and Will is passionate about changing that. He helps writers feel seen, equipped and confident as they steward the words God has given them. Through Writer Circle, he opens the door of publishing and makes the next step clearer and less lonely.

[00:02:16] Nicole Meier: Will lives in Southern California with his wife Emily, and their three children. Hello listeners. I'm so happy you're here with me today. We have a special guest. Will Parker Anderson, and I won't jump into his full bio because I've read that in the intro, but what I do want you to know is that if you're not following him on Substack, that is how I found Will.

[00:02:36] Nicole Meier: And he has an incredible community that he has gathered over there with all kinds of knowledge and what I call nurturing guidance. So we're gonna get into all of that today specifically about something he writes about called the Passion Pay Gap. But before we jump into all things, I just wanna say welcome will.

[00:02:54] Will Parker Anderson: Thanks, Nicole. Yeah, really excited to be here and to learn more about you and the community of writers that you are nurturing, so thanks for having me. 

[00:03:03] Nicole Meier: Of course, of course. Well, let's ease into it. We'll let people get a chance to get to know you. I know that you have your own writing journey. Do you wanna just share a little bit about the, and then how you got into your career at Pengu Random House as a senior editor?

[00:03:19] Will Parker Anderson: Yeah, totally. I mean, the main thing I guess for people to know is that, yeah, I'm an editor at Penguin and that's my day job, and so I get to help authors shape their message and whatever may, it could be their story or something they want to teach people, but from start to finish, I get to be the person who champions their voice, helps them shape the message of the book, and then walks them all the way to the launch date.

[00:03:45] Will Parker Anderson: And so. What I do is, the two words I often use are creative and relational. Those are the two skill sets that I work really hard to hone in my work, and I absolutely love what I do. And then on the side, which you were referencing, I have a sub stack called Writer Circle. And the idea behind that was most of the authors I work with have established platforms.

[00:04:09] Will Parker Anderson: A lot of people would know their names in the circles that they publish in. Then there's people like me who are, I'm also a writer. We're just trying to figure out the confusing world of publishing. And I realized that I could help be a guide for those that want to grow in their craft, want to publish their work, that they feel trapped on the outside, like they're not sure exactly how to publish their work or even to gain a small following.

[00:04:36] Will Parker Anderson: And so that's what the Writer Circle Substack is all about. And I love coaching writers, encouraging writers. That's actually what led us to meet. And so that's why we're even having this conversation, which I'm grateful for. 

[00:04:50] Nicole Meier: Well, I just love that, and you're coming from it of what I call, and you're familiar with this too, of just like open the gates, right?

[00:04:58] Nicole Meier: So you're not really a gatekeeper. You're welcoming people in. You're encouraging people, and I have to imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, that might be a little bit of a tricky balance because you are a senior editor and you have to sort of have your hat that you wear at the publishing house and then the hat that you wear when you're helping people, like you said, get unstuck from the outside in.

[00:05:19] Will Parker Anderson: Absolutely. Yeah. I get dms almost daily that I just can't respond to. There just isn't time. People. Yeah. They see the editor name badge and they think Sweet Will can just get me published. That's not exactly what the Writer's Circle is about. It's about nurturing our craft. It's about the fact that sure, there are strategies that will help you move closer to maybe one day landing a book deal, but it's bad news and good news.

[00:05:49] Will Parker Anderson: The bad news is for most of us, we will probably not land a book deal. It's like any industry, like an NBA team doesn't bring on 50 players. Why? Because there's only so many spots, and that's just how the world works. And that's okay. That doesn't make publishers the enemy. It's a business. And so they have to keep the lights on and they have to bring on writers who they feel offer the best chance of return on investment.

[00:06:19] Will Parker Anderson: But something that's so beautiful, I think is that. Beyond landing a book deal. As writers, we have so many opportunities to help people, to inspire people, whether it's a newsletter, self-publishing, something. I mean, even down to the more granular everyday stuff like handwriting notes. Yeah, that's a personal practice that I have because it sounds sort of flimsy and sentimental, but.

[00:06:48] Will Parker Anderson: I have received a couple notes through my life that some of the things written in those notes have changed my life or helped me understand my calling or reminded me of who I was created to be. And so what I like to tell writers is not to underestimate the power of your words across all the mediums at your disposal.

[00:07:09] Will Parker Anderson: Yes, the trophy, the thing we're all looking at is a book deal. There is so much more opportunity that writers have at their fingertips to bless, to inspire and help just by sharing words wherever you can. And so that's just as much a part of the writer's circle as cracking the net of publishing. It's stewarding the opportunities you have with your words.

[00:07:35] Nicole Meier: Well, that's a mic drop right there. I feel like we could just end the podcast. 

[00:07:39] Will Parker Anderson: All right. Well see you, Nicole. It's been great. Just kidding. 

[00:07:41] Nicole Meier: That was really, I mean, I could just feel the collective shoulders dropping when you said all of that, because it's just why we get into this. We forget why we get into the business of writing.

[00:07:52] Nicole Meier: And you're talking about connecting, you're talking about a calling. I love the idea of the handwritten note. Complete tangent here. I once heard author Lisa C speak, and she said, write one kind note a day. And it had changed her life. 

[00:08:07] Will Parker Anderson: Yeah. 

[00:08:08] Nicole Meier: And I have always thought that was the best piece of advice I ever got, so I love that you brought that in.

[00:08:14] Nicole Meier: Okay, so you actually gave me a perfect segue. We're talking about the writer's circle. We're talking about helping everyone with sort of their why and their calling. I wanna talk about something specific that you write about on Substack, and you called it the passion pay gap, and that really caught my attention.

[00:08:29] Nicole Meier: So what made you wanna write about it? Have you found that other writers really resonate with this feeling? Can you describe it a little bit for people that haven't read that post yet? 

[00:08:39] Will Parker Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. So for the average writer, we're looking on social media. We're seeing people maybe land book deals or grow their followings.

[00:08:50] Will Parker Anderson: Start businesses, and there's a lot of entrepreneurs and solopreneurs today, so they're launching their courses and their cohorts and it just looks like everyone's crushing it and making money doing the things that they love, which leaves the rest of us feeling like, dang it, I don't make that much money or any money from my passions.

[00:09:09] Will Parker Anderson: I guess I suck and maybe I should just hang it up. So the passion pay gap is the idea of. It's this Venn diagram. There's three circles, and the typical explanation of calling, like what were you created to do is, number one, what you're good at. And then also number two, what people will pay you to do. And then the third one is what you love to do.

[00:09:35] Will Parker Anderson: So it's like, what are my skills, what are my passions? And then what will people pay me to do? And the traditional view of calling says where those three circles perfectly overlap. Here is your calling, and so you'll satisfy your deep desire for purpose and meaning and creative expression, and simultaneously make a ton of money.

[00:09:57] Will Parker Anderson: And there are people who do it, but again, for 99.9% of us, it's like if I get paid to do my passions, like I actually saw this great substack note the other day that said huge milestone. I just got paid for the first time to write. And then they said, I made 20 bucks. And that is reality for most of us. You know, like we love to paint, but ain't no one gonna pay us to do it.

[00:10:25] Will Parker Anderson: My wife loves, loves, loves taking care of our three kids. She homeschools our oldest. She's never made a cent on that, but that is one of her great passions. On and on we could go. But yeah, so it's this gap between. How the world today tells us that, well, if you love something, you should also get paid for it.

[00:10:46] Will Parker Anderson: When in reality it's just not true. For the vast majority of us, 

[00:10:52] Nicole Meier: it is an interesting point. Someone's job isn't necessarily their passion and it could also make their passion possible. So I know you have some personal examples of that. Can you explain that thought a little bit more? 

[00:11:06] Will Parker Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. Well, so the dynamic tends to be if you don't make a living off your passion, then if we're not careful, we start resenting our full-time job.

[00:11:17] Will Parker Anderson: Like, man, this drudgery this dead end work that's not fulfilling me. Like I'm stuck with it. And I just wish that I could pursue my passion with 40 hours a week or more. And what I've realized slowly is that there's a perspective from which, a vantage point from which. Whatever we do to pay the bills actually is funding our passion.

[00:11:40] Will Parker Anderson: And so for Writer Circle, I love what I get to share with writers, but chances are most people wouldn't come to writer circle if I wasn't also an editor, which by the way, I love my job. So there's that, and I realize that that's immense privilege. Not everyone does, but to be sure. There are really hard days as an editor where let's say I really wanted to, the term we use is acquire a project, an author's concept, and I worked hard.

[00:12:11] Will Parker Anderson: I did all this paperwork, I met with the author, I did everything I could, and yet they choose a different publisher and it's like it slips through my fingers. There's also days I'm more creative and intuitive, so I hate anything that is administrative and logistical, but I have to do a lot of paperwork for my job.

[00:12:29] Will Parker Anderson: I have to run profit and loss statements, things like that. So some days that's all I do. I'm just literally sitting with databases. I'm crunching numbers, different ways, hitting walls, trying to figure out how I can make a case to Penguin that this is a project worth pursuing, that it's gonna benefit us, not put us in the red.

[00:12:49] Will Parker Anderson: And so all that to say, I've just recognized that no job's perfect and that actually when we look for ways to be grateful for how our job paves the way for our passions, even if we can't do it full time, it's a blessing. And then I'll just drop this in here. If you look at all of human history. If you had asked someone from ancient times, what's your passion?

[00:13:13] Will Parker Anderson: What do you see yourself doing for the rest of your life? They would've been like, what are you talking about? You know, 

[00:13:18] Nicole Meier: interesting. 

[00:13:19] Will Parker Anderson: I was born to a farmer, like farming parents. That's what I'm gonna do. What are you even asking me right now? Or maybe they would apprentice with someone in their town that would teach them to be a blacksmith or a candle maker or a teacher.

[00:13:35] Will Parker Anderson: And this is true in many places around the world especially. I mean, there are places sadly plagued by harsh economic and political realities where it's really about survival, not choice. And so those of us in the West or in countries that are financially doing okay overall, every moment we spend pursuing our passion is a real gift.

[00:14:00] Will Parker Anderson: And for me. It's been really important to take note of that and to recognize, oh my goodness, what an honor and a privilege to even get to think about that I have the time to think about my passions and that I have a job, and that that job in one way or another allows me to do what I love, even if it's not all the time.

[00:14:22] Will Parker Anderson: It's some of the time, and, uh, that's been helpful for me. 

[00:14:26] Nicole Meier: What a beautiful reframe of all that. It is so true. We need to step back and get that perspective because we get so in the weeds. And one thing I was thinking of when you were talking is there will be listeners today will say, yes, it's a gift, but I'm wasting my gift or I am doing it wrong.

[00:14:45] Nicole Meier: And they're so concerned. Like I said, we get in the weeds of we're doing it wrong. We've got this chance to write a novel and get it published, but I'm doing it wrong and it's gonna be too late, or I'm gonna blow my chances. So. What are you thinking? When I say that? There is a group of people saying yes, but you know, 

[00:15:03] Will Parker Anderson: I'd say I agree with you and I feel that tension all the time.

[00:15:08] Will Parker Anderson: There are certain things that we have to take seriously, one of which is life doesn't always work out how we wish it could. That's a hard reality to face. I mean, we've now touched on that two times in this conversation. Some people really want a book deal. It doesn't happen. Some people really wanna pursue their passion full time.

[00:15:27] Will Parker Anderson: It doesn't happen. But what I would say is nothing is wasted every moment that you do what you love. Just on a personal level, it's not wasted. We are not machines meant to run on efficiency. We are human beings for whom our passions bring us life, give us meaning, bring us joy. Not to mention, bless others.

[00:15:52] Will Parker Anderson: And that's where I would encourage people to really think through. How are your gifts an opportunity to serve the people you love and the people who love what you do? If you get to do that two hours a week, don't underestimate the impact cumulatively as the, the compound effect. As you continue to sow those seeds in your passion.

[00:16:15] Will Parker Anderson: Whatever it looks like, don't underestimate the impact that can have on others. And I'm a dad, so I think about for my kids. One of the greatest things that they can see me doing is running after the things that I love at the end of my life. I want them to be able to say, wow. Dad really loved writing.

[00:16:36] Will Parker Anderson: Like he loved words and he used words to speak life over us. But also we have these written records of stuff that Dad wrote, and I'm not naive. They probably won't want to read most of it, but even if there's something. That blesses them. Those words can outlive me. And so whatever your passion is, it will outlive you as you give yourself to it.

[00:16:58] Will Parker Anderson: As you leave the residue of your passion behind, that's a gift that you can give. So not to romanticize it or to overstate it, but that tension and frustration is very real. At the same time, I have seen many examples of how, what. People have left behind them in their lifetime that they just love to do because they loved it, the impact that it's made.

[00:17:24] Will Parker Anderson: So I would say. It's okay to dream bigger as well. We don't have to be completely cynical. 

[00:17:30] Nicole Meier: Ah, it's so great and I just love the, again, another beautiful reframe and it is really important to think of the cumulative impact we talk a lot about as writers, and I'm an editor too. It's like it's not one title, it's the body of work and what is the body of work?

[00:17:47] Nicole Meier: What is the body of your passion project, whatever it is mean to you. And I just love that idea. I do wanna stay on that thread a little bit because I know that you've written about different writers you work with and there was one, I think it was a man who said he really missed getting up at 4:00 AM and having that ritual writing practice.

[00:18:07] Nicole Meier: You wanna talk a little bit about that because a lot of people who aren't writers would think. Why would you get up at 4:00 AM and write? 

[00:18:14] Will Parker Anderson: Yeah, first of all, we just lost 90% of our audience, so like if that's his advice. No, this was a writer at the time. He was a CEO of a company and he had this spark, this vision to write a book.

[00:18:26] Will Parker Anderson: And so literally as a super high capacity person, I mean this dude has so much energy. I work with him now as his editor, but. He would get up at 4:00 AM and he would just crank on his book until, I don't know, 7:00 AM and he just did that I think during the week. And fast forward, I think he's got 10 books or so published, several of which are with Penguin, and he just said, for as great as it is to now be a quote unquote author, entrepreneur, I miss those old days.

[00:19:00] Will Parker Anderson: I miss those days of waking up at 4:00 AM because. There was a scarcity of time to work on his passion, which created an urgency and it squeezed him creatively and some of his best stuff flowed out in that season. And it's easy for us to assume if I had 40 hours a week to devote to my passion, it would be paradise.

[00:19:24] Nicole Meier: Right? 

[00:19:24] Will Parker Anderson: Or 

[00:19:25] Nicole Meier: if 

[00:19:26] Will Parker Anderson: or not, or not. Yeah. Yeah. Or would it be purgatory? 

[00:19:29] Nicole Meier: Yeah. 

[00:19:30] Will Parker Anderson: Because would you be then. You wouldn't have the scarcity and the urgency, and so it's like, well, I have all day to write. I mean, I would struggle with that. I'd be staring at that blinking cursor like, am I really expected to fill all this time?

[00:19:46] Will Parker Anderson: And just all that output for hours and hours versus, okay, like this morning, I think I had 45 minutes to work on my next post. I didn't finish, but. I got maybe 80% of the way, and I've learned the art of just stepping away. It's like, okay, now my kids are up, so I need to get into them, read them a story, get them out to the table for breakfast so they can get on with their day, and that is my life.

[00:20:17] Will Parker Anderson: But I think part of the beauty of that process is tomorrow I know I'll come back to what I was writing with fresh eyes after a good night's sleep. I'm gonna immediately spot the weaknesses that I couldn't see this morning at 6:00 AM and I just learned to trust that process. So yeah, pursuing your passion full time could kill your love for it.

[00:20:40] Will Parker Anderson: It sounds heretical, but sounds so dreamy. If only I could spend all my time, but it might actually ruin the thing that you love. Not for everyone, but for a great many of us, I think that would actually be the case. 

[00:20:55] Nicole Meier: I think that's such a good example because there are so many of us who think, oh, if I got paid a full-time salary just to write every day, and a publisher was just waiting anytime you wanna turn your book in.

[00:21:05] Nicole Meier: But 

[00:21:05] Will Parker Anderson: yeah, 

[00:21:06] Nicole Meier: the grass is not greener and it is true. We have that euphoria in the honeymoon stage of becoming a writer for the first time and you're, you know, rushing to get to the page and you have a limited amount of time. That could go away. I could see that happening very easily. Yeah. 

[00:21:23] Will Parker Anderson: Yeah, for sure.

[00:21:25] Nicole Meier: Yeah. Okay, so you touched on some personal stuff about how you are a writer. You have this wonderful job as an editor. You have this beautiful family, busy household, I'm guessing. Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:36] Will Parker Anderson: Oh yeah. 

[00:21:36] Nicole Meier: There are so many people like you listening, that want to fit in their passion, their writing, but they've got the job, they've got the family.

[00:21:45] Nicole Meier: They've tried different things of, oh, I'll do the five to 7:00 AM riding. Maybe that's not right for me. They've tried riding alone together. Are there any sort of tips or bit of guidance you might give to someone who really is balancing quite a lot right now? 

[00:21:59] Will Parker Anderson: Hmm. Not really. And I'll answer in a sneaky way because I would never want to be prescriptive and say, oh, I write at this time of the morning.

[00:22:11] Will Parker Anderson: And if you have three kids like me, you could just map my habits onto your life because every human is different. Every person's capacity is different. Even just our preferences. Like when during the day do you feel most creative? For me, I feel like my tank is below E by 7:30 PM which is when our kids are all finally in bed.

[00:22:36] Will Parker Anderson: I can barely read a chapter of a book. Now, granted, I read all day. That's my job, but so for me, it's the morning. Many writers, it's like I don't get anything good on the page until post 10:00 PM and they write till 1:00 AM. That's great. Where I would challenge people is this, I think it's for the most part, a myth that we don't have time to write.

[00:23:02] Will Parker Anderson: Now if your spouse is terminally ill, if you have a chronic health condition, if you have to work three jobs, like nothing but grace. 

[00:23:11] Nicole Meier: Yeah. 

[00:23:11] Will Parker Anderson: But it is fascinating how often that will come up. And so where I would push back is simply to say, with gentleness, we make time for the things we care about. I do not like my alarm going off at 5:23 AM.

[00:23:26] Will Parker Anderson: I set my alarms to end in three. I don't know why. My wife thinks it's weird, but it goes off at 5 23. I'm not like, this is awesome. I can't wait to get up in the dark, cold and start writing. But there's a fire in my bones that some days it's just a small spark, but it's enough to get me outta bed and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[00:23:50] Will Parker Anderson: And some mornings I choose to just sleep and I'm like, screw it, of course. But. The consistent pattern is I'm up and doing it, and it's not because I'm disciplined, quite the opposite. So for anyone listening, I am not the most disciplined person, and hopefully that will encourage you. But as a editor at Penguin, most of the authors I work with are not full-time writers.

[00:24:13] Will Parker Anderson: I would say, I don't know. I actually don't know if I can, well, the guy we were talking about, he would qualify, but he's the only one that I can think of. Everyone else is. A pastor, a CEO, an entrepreneur, a business owner, you name it, a couple full-time moms, and I consider that a, uh, vocation. Any stay at home parent.

[00:24:34] Will Parker Anderson: So they're squeezing writing into the margins of what they do. I remember one author told me she literally writes with her laptop out on her bed with her kids, like bouncing on the bed around her. 

[00:24:47] Nicole Meier: Wow. 

[00:24:48] Will Parker Anderson: And she just has zoned out and is able to do that. But her life. Just has that level of noise and wonderful chaos that that's what it looks like for her.

[00:24:59] Will Parker Anderson: And so I would just say, yeah, there is no one size fits all approach, but if you find yourself defaulting to that excuse, I don't have time, just ask yourself, not in a condemning way, but just ask yourself, do you really love to write or do you feel like you have to write like it's an obligation or is it.

[00:25:23] Will Parker Anderson: Joy, is it something that gives you life? I think it was in the New York Times, this amazing journalistic piece where this woman felt so strapped for time, so she just audited her time for a period of, I forget, a couple months. And what she discovered is that while she was very busy. In fact, she had a baby at the time, so she literally was like pumping breast milk on the subway.

[00:25:48] Nicole Meier: Oh my gosh. 

[00:25:49] Will Parker Anderson: Talk about multitasking. 

[00:25:51] Nicole Meier: Yeah. 

[00:25:51] Will Parker Anderson: I can't even imagine what that would be like. But that was her life. So it was very busy. But when she got to the end of her audit, she was like, I spent this many a hundred hours on gossip magazines, this many a hundred hours watching shows. And she just realized, yes, I'm a very busy career woman and a mother yet.

[00:26:12] Will Parker Anderson: I have a lot more flex than I thought, and it was just illuminating for her. So that's what I would say to people is that even if you can do 30 minutes a week or whatever it looks like for you as a mentor of mine says the hard part is getting your butt into the chair and we don't have to overcomplicate it.

[00:26:31] Will Parker Anderson: This is a mantra I say to myself. Like I can fiddle with outlines and research and like setting up my environment and it's like, no, will like put your butt in the chair and just start writing. That's what it looks like. Like stop messing around, get words on the page. Just get to work. Because when I do that, that's when I have the most fun.

[00:26:52] Nicole Meier: Oh, so good. Will I just love everything you said and even though you didn't wanna give guidance, it feels like gentle guidance to me, but it's also so relatable. So relatable. So. I know that there's a lot of people listening right now that want to know how they can connect with you, what you offer in the writer's circle, where they can find you.

[00:27:11] Nicole Meier: So can you share all that good stuff with us? 

[00:27:14] Will Parker Anderson: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm really a one trick pony. It's all on Substack, and if those listening are not on substack, that's actually fine. You don't have to have a profile, I don't think. I think you just can go to. Writer circle on Substack. I'm sure you'll have the link, Nicole, for people.

[00:27:33] Nicole Meier: Yes. 

[00:27:33] Will Parker Anderson: And if you subscribe, I would love to just send you my newsletter. It comes out on Saturday mornings and it's purely encouragement about writing, publishing, and more recently calling. We all Long to know that we're fulfilling our purpose, that we have a purpose, whether for our creative work or just our lives in general.

[00:27:56] Will Parker Anderson: And so like the passion pay gap that we were talking about, I'll send stuff like that out just to help to give you confidence that your life, your work, your passions do matter and how to make the most out of them. So I've been posting a lot more about that lately too. 

[00:28:13] Nicole Meier: Well, that is a beautiful, heartfelt note to end on.

[00:28:16] Nicole Meier: Thank you so much for chatting with me today, will, with such a pleasure. 

[00:28:21] Will Parker Anderson: Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Nicole. 

[00:28:23] Nicole Meier: Okay, listeners, I'm gonna share all of the good stuff in the show notes. I would really encourage you to read the post that we talked about today. Follow Will if you feel like it resonated with you.

[00:28:34] Nicole Meier: And thank you so much for joining us. I'll see you next time on the Whole writer.

[00:28:43] Nicole Meier: If you want to check out my coaching programs for fiction writers, visit nicole meyer.com. That's M-E-I-E-R. And if you like this episode, I'd love you to take a minute to leave a rating and review for this podcast. This will help more writers like you to discover the show and to get going on their writing journey.

[00:29:04] Nicole Meier: Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, happy writing everyone.