Survivorchat with Trevor Maxwell

We introduce Trevor Maxwell, founder of Man Up To Cancer, who shares his stage IV colon cancer diagnosis at 41 and how a rare MSI-high tumor type, immunotherapy, chemotherapy, and multiple major surgeries (including HIPEC) have helped him live with cancer for years and stay present for his family. They talk candidly about parenting through cancer, balancing hope with realism, and pushing back against toxic positivity. Trevor explains that his own depression and isolation—and the lack of spaces where men feel safe asking for help—sparked Man Up To Cancer, which now provides peer support, local chapters, retreats, and practical help to reduce isolation and redefine “manning up” as strength plus vulnerability.

Relevant links: 

• If you have thoughts or feelings about hurting yourself, or others, please call someone near you, or your local emergency number (in USA -> call 911 or call the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline at 988; outside of USA -> https://findahelpline.com).
• https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-therapies/hipec-surgery-what-you-need-to-know
• https://www.dempseycenter.org
• https://manuptocancer.org
• https://manuptocancer.org/blog1/blazinganewtrail

General Links:

• Disclaimers: https://cancersurvivormd.org/disclaimers/
• Brad Buchanan: https://linktr.ee/bradthechimera
• G [Josie] van Londen: https://linktr.ee/cancersurvivormd
• CancerBridges: https://cancerbridges.org/

Transcript

Survivorchat - Trevor Maxwell

[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] Introduction

[00:00:00] G van Londen: Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Cancer Survivor md. we have a bunch of episodes crunched together because we have , a bunch of interesting guests here that reached out to us or we found them. This one, Brad has located because he has a close relationship to the organization that Trevor Maxwell, our guest, has founded.

[00:00:26] G van Londen: And so without further ado, I'm giving it to Brad so he can introduce our guest more formally and more detail that I can.

[00:00:38] Brad Buchanan: Thanks. And, yeah, thank you Trevor for joining us here. so yeah, Trevor Maxwell is the founder of Man Up To Cancer, which is, I think now the foremost, men's pan cancer survivorship group, with chapters spanning North America from, it started in Northeastern US and Maine to be specific with [00:01:00] now chapters all the way out to Hawaii and up into Canada.

[00:01:03] Brad Buchanan: And there are now members, um, I think on the new platform from Australia, Europe, places like Belgium and England. So it really is, grown like wildfire, the good kind of wildfire, started in, late 2019 just before the pandemic maybe. And, you know, I first met Trevor in, in Chicago at asco.

[00:01:26] Brad Buchanan: The. What I call the Cancer Super Bowl, where, all the doctors come to share their research findings, which are pretty much over my head. and then in the big exhibition hall, there's a ton of, huge kind of neon villages almost set up from the big pharmaceutical companies. And I was like, wow, this is absolutely overwhelming.

[00:01:48] Brad Buchanan: So I was just looking for people to chat and connect to. I know I met Trevor and I think, Don Helgeson from MANUP to Cancer. I actually was roommates with, a guy from MANUP to Cancer, Steven Westfall from [00:02:00] Idaho, and we hit it off as well. So I was like, okay, I found my cancer survivorship group.

[00:02:05] Brad Buchanan: I met Trevor, joined me up to Cancer in 2024, Trevor and I talked a lot, about writing, and we've been talking about writing as we go, Trevor, welcome and thank you so much for joining us. I guess our norm is to ask people about their cancer experiences, and I know you have a bunch and, however much or little you'd like to share about those, I think now would be the time.

[00:02:28] Trevor's Cancer Story

[00:02:28] Trevor Maxwell: Yeah, awesome. I mean, this isn't like the Joe Rogan show, so we could go for like six hours, but, I think we're, we think we have a tighter time limit today. well first of all, just let me say thank you, Brad. It's great to see you. I'm so glad that we connected and now we're both working towards a common mission, with Man Up To Cancer and, and Dr.

[00:02:46] Trevor Maxwell: Josie. thank you so much for having me. when I started Man Up To Cancer really late 2019, early 2020, I didn't know what Zoom was, I didn't really ever participate in virtual calls. so that is one really cool [00:03:00] thing that did come outta the pandemic is that we can, I'm really comfortable now with these conversations that, that I'm talking to you, Dr.

[00:03:06] Trevor Maxwell: Josie in Pittsburgh. Shout out to Pittsburgh and Brad out there in California. but yeah, it is just an honor to chat with you too. just real quick on my cancer. I was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer in March of 2018.

[00:03:22] Trevor Maxwell: as we speak today, in the fall of 25, I've been living with this disease and managing it as a chronic disease. For almost eight years, I was 41 years old. I live here in Maine with my wife and we have two daughters. at the time my daughter Sage was 12 and our daughter Elsie was 10.

[00:03:42] Trevor Maxwell: I didn't have any symptoms with my colon cancer, other than fatigue. and I like a lot of guys, didn't have regular contact with a doctor at that point in my life. I was 41, I was healthy. you know, I'm kind of strong as a bull and didn't, wasn't at the point in my life where I thought to do [00:04:00] annual physicals or anything like that.

[00:04:02] Trevor Maxwell: So when my fatigue just kept getting worse and worse, I finally got in touch with primary care physician and I reached out and I said, you know, my resting heart rate has gone from like 50 to 70 and. I'm so fatigued that I can't get through a day without multiple naps. And she said, we need to get your blood work done.

[00:04:22] Trevor Maxwell: Well, got the blood work done, showed that I was incredibly anemic. I didn't need a blood transplant, but I was pretty close. I had basically no iron in my blood. And she said usually with no, like, 'cause I didn't have any bleeding externally. She said usually if someone my age without any other symptoms except for anemia, there's something going on in the gastrointestinal tract.

[00:04:48] Trevor Maxwell: She was thinking maybe, polyps or even like celiac or just something with, we didn't even think cancer. but she got me fast tracked for a colonoscopy and that was March [00:05:00] 23rd, 2018. I remember coming out of the fog of the colonoscopy drugs and the nurse telling my wife and I that the doctor needed to see us in his office.

[00:05:10] Trevor Maxwell: the doctor sat us down and said, you have a very large mass. It's about nine or 10 centimeters in your ascending colon. Which at the time, I was no expert on anatomy or colons before I got cancer diagnosis. I knew it was my large intestine. That was about it.

[00:05:26] Trevor Maxwell: And he said, this is a large mass. We took biopsies, multiple biopsies, we need to refer you to medical oncology. urgently. And, and I had to say like, you know, my wife and I are just sitting there in shock. And we said, are, are you saying that I have cancer?

[00:05:43] Trevor Maxwell: And he said, well, we won't know for sure until the pathology comes back, but I'm 99% sure that you have colon cancer. Now there was colon cancer and is colon cancer in my family, but. it was my grandparents. So my grandmother in her seventies, [00:06:00] another grandfather in his late sixties. There was no early onset cancer in my family that I knew of.

[00:06:06] Trevor Maxwell: So I just remember, to this day it's vivid walking out to our car, sitting down with my wife, and looking at each other and just, you just go from one world to another. And our first thought was, how are we gonna tell our daughters, how are we gonna go home and figure out how to tell a 12-year-old and a 10-year-old that I have cancer and that dad's going into a fight for his life?

[00:06:30] Trevor Maxwell: I am very fortunate that I have a type of colon cancer that's called MSI, high or Microsatellite instable meaning. My tumors are very mutated, so they're more recognizable to the immune system, which makes me a really good candidate for immunotherapy.

[00:06:48] Trevor Maxwell: Only about four to 6% of colorectal cancer patients have MSI high the type that I have. So I'm in a very small subset of, CRC. So for your [00:07:00] listeners, when I'm saying CRC, that's colorectal cancer. there's very few colorectal cancer patients that actually qualify for immunotherapy and do well on it.

[00:07:09] Trevor Maxwell: I'm very fortunate that immunotherapy saved my life. It didn't cure me, but by doing immunotherapy, regular chemotherapy plus multiple surgeries, I've been able to stay alive and have a, you know, it hasn't always been a great quality of life, but oftentimes it has been good. so I've had seven open abdominal surgeries.

[00:07:32] Trevor Maxwell: Usually I was going about once every nine or 10 months, I would have another surgery to. Clean out. So basically my cancer started in my colon, and when I say stage four, metastatic to my liver, and then it spread out in my abdomen in the peritoneal cavity. it also spread to the tail of my pancreas.

[00:07:51] Trevor Maxwell: So my management has been really largely surgical. I've had a lot of debulking surgeries where my surgeon has gone in and cleared out any visible [00:08:00] cancer. I had a HIPEC surgery, which is where they, cleaned out visible cancer and then washed my insides with hot chemo for 40 minutes and then put me back together.

[00:08:12] Trevor Maxwell: through a combination of many surgeries, lots of chemotherapy, and lots of immunotherapy, I've managed my disease and stayed alive for a long time. not many people have that good fortune. So, and it's weird, right, to be saying, I was diagnosed with stage four cancer at 41, but I'm actually a really fortunate person because I've been able to see my kids go through middle school and high school, see them, graduate, 

[00:08:36] Trevor Maxwell: They're both in college now. And I know in this space as a professional, doing the work that I do with men and then as a patient, you realize how fortunate you are to live long term. This would not have been possible without immunotherapy coming on board within the past 10, 20 years and without surgical techniques.

[00:08:59] Trevor Maxwell: [00:09:00] So I would just say as a patient, about my cancer, that I'm incredibly grateful to the scientists, the researchers, the drug developers. So right now I'm stable. I do immunotherapy every two weeks. two immunotherapy drugs, and those are kicking butt this year. I restarted immunotherapy at the beginning of this year when I was having some progression, and I've had a really deep, robust clinical response.

[00:09:31] Trevor Maxwell: my blood work is great. I just went out for a bike ride with my dog, this afternoon and tomorrow we're going to see one of our daughters at the University of New Hampshire. She's singing the national anthem at, um, hockey game. And so I can't even, you know, the gratitude, you can feel that gratitude, right?

[00:09:50] Trevor Maxwell: Of all these moments that I would've missed if it hadn't been for dedicated scientists. Pushing to treat us. And [00:10:00] now, one of my quests is to advocate for all those other colorectal cancer patients who don't respond to immunotherapy. How can we find new treatments, whether it's new immunotherapies, combinations with chemo, how can we push the therapies forward so that more people with my disease type can see these milestones that I've gotten to see?

[00:10:21] Trevor Maxwell: So that's a, yeah, I, that's a little bit of a nutshell of the past seven and a half years of learning to adapt to living with cancer and, not needing to have a certain outcome, right? Like, yes, I'd like to survive long term. I also understand that if that doesn't happen, I've accepted that, but just on a day-to-day basis living with cancer and living the best life that I can live with cancer, even knowing the limitations

[00:10:48] Trevor Maxwell: that sometimes we, we face,

[00:10:50] Brad Buchanan: Josie, did you wanna ask like, you're the cancer doctor here, so I'm wondering if you have any. expert insights or questions that you want to probe Trevor on [00:11:00] before we get into the MANUP to Cancer story, which I certainly want to turn to

[00:11:05] Trevor Maxwell: yeah.

[00:11:06] G van Londen: Well, there were two things I wanted to mention. Um, one of them relates to, and don't take this the wrong way, uh, but people listen and they sometimes take notes. And I wanna make sure you said I almost needed a transplant, but I think you meant. Blood transfusion.

[00:11:27] Trevor Maxwell: Yes. Blood transfusion. 

[00:11:28] G van Londen: You meant that, but I wanted to clarify that because Brad had a transplant and so people are like, wait, can I do a transplant for colorectal cancer?

[00:11:38] Scientific Advancement Contributors

[00:11:38] G van Londen: And as far as I know, the research isn't, there and talk about research, you took, the words out of my mouth, like you said 10, 20 years ago, your diagnosis would've been, grim.

[00:11:51] Trevor Maxwell: That's right.

[00:11:52] G van Londen: And so for you to sit here like this with us is magical and it's not perfect, but it just, [00:12:00]indicates exactly how much progress science makes and hopefully will continue to make, And another thing that I, would like to shout out, but that's a little bit of a sidetrack, but everybody you mentioned, yes, kudos to them, but also in a strange way, the government because, there's a lot of government people that help lobby or decide or regulate or who knows what the government all does to try to make this a fair process and, a process that is, regulated.

[00:12:35] G van Londen: Because believe it or not, we humans need rules and regulations with, boundaries, to make this all go ethically correct. so I think maybe what I will do, Brad, is give it to you and let you talk about Man Up to Cancer, because I believe there's a lot there. Like, who is this for? What is your overall mission? [00:13:00] Where do you hope to go with this?

[00:13:01] G van Londen: what do you hope to fundraise for? So I'm going to, mute myself, and I will watch and listen and learn.

[00:13:09] Trevor Maxwell: And I, if I could just say before we dive into MANUP Cancer, I am totally on the same page with you about the government, the boundaries, the regulations. Like it's not something I'm an expert in, but I know this, Dr. Allison was working on CTLA four inhibitors in a lab in Berkeley with NIH funding. And that led to a breakthrough that was eventually, you know, developed and commercialized by Bristol Myers Squibb, and hence, you know, I'm on, Opdivo and Yervoy, so nivolumab and ipilimumab and those discoveries would not have been possible without private public partnership.

[00:13:54] Trevor Maxwell: And the understanding that helping patients like me as a public good [00:14:00] and also has a, as a positive impact, positive net impact on not just, it's the right thing to do, but it's actually really good for the economy and it's good for everything, right? 

[00:14:10] Trevor Maxwell: we've made a ton of progress in the past, In these past few decades because of broad, nonpartisan support for cancer research. And we should be investing more in that, not less.

[00:14:25] Brad Buchanan: Amen.

[00:14:26] Trevor Maxwell: With that, I'll get off my soapbox and we'll talk about other stuff, but I think we're on the same page.

[00:14:31] The Impact on Trevor's Kids

[00:14:31] Brad Buchanan: Yeah, absolutely. you talked about your kids and how old they were when you were diagnosed and how to broach the subject. My kids were six and 10, when I was diagnosed, and we really struggled about how much to tell them and whether to raise the specter of, well, dad might die.

[00:14:51] Brad Buchanan: we never said that. I don't think we ever said that, but we said cancer and they knew it was damn serious. [00:15:00] recently they've learned a lot more about my situation, and how close I came to dying multiple times and they were sort of like, dad, we never knew, 

[00:15:09] Brad Buchanan: You know, my wife at the time, my parents were all told he's probably not gonna make it. But the kids were protected from that in the moment. But as time goes by, we've been able to be more honest with them or they just figure it out. Right. They put two and two together. 

[00:15:25] Brad Buchanan:

[00:15:25] Trevor Maxwell: Great point.

[00:15:27] Brad Buchanan: how did that go, like with your daughters like raising the issue of mortality or not?

[00:15:33] Brad Buchanan: how has their appreciation of what you have been through changed, if at all?

[00:15:39] Trevor Maxwell: I think we need to acknowledge first off that children are incredibly intuitive. They are incredibly intelligent, what they're picking up on in subtext and body language and the tears that are happening with mom and dad, like people who think they can protect their kids from any of that stuff.

[00:15:54] Trevor Maxwell: Like everyone has their own way of dealing with it. And I'm not here to criticize what other [00:16:00] parents do, but I really hope that if anyone's wondering, I always favor, without scaring them, I always favor transparency as much as you can. So, for example, one of our first conversations with the girls, again in their 12 and 10 was one of them asked like, so you're gonna get.

[00:16:18] Trevor Maxwell: You're gonna get treated and then it's, it's gonna be gone and, and you're gonna be okay. Right? It's never gonna come back. And the way that I responded was no, I can't guarantee you that we're gonna get rid of this cancer and it's never gonna come back because we don't know that, we don't have the answer to that.

[00:16:37] Trevor Maxwell: But here's what I can guarantee you, I can guarantee you that I will do everything in my power. I will get the best care that I can possibly get. I will make sure that all of our questions are answered as much as we can have them answered. I'm going to keep loving you and being your dad just as much as I am now.

[00:16:59] Trevor Maxwell: And [00:17:00] so I will do everything in my power to make sure that I'm here with you, on this earth. For as long as I possibly can. and at the end of the day, whether you have cancer or not. And I know that brings mortality into sharper focus, but that is the truth.

[00:17:19] Trevor Maxwell: fortunately for us, you know, they knew it was serious even at those ages. they knew that cancer could kill people. and we would talk about the medical things, just kind of surface level, this is what's happening. but we really did try to be transparent and answer their questions because especially in the early days when it was so shocking and so emotionally crushing to my wife and I, we were going through the logistical parts of cancer, but also the emotional burden of cancer that hits you as a relatively young couple raising children, 

[00:17:52] Trevor Maxwell: This is a life asteroid and you, it, we were, we were grieving like the anticipatory grief, the shock, like all of that. Like [00:18:00] we struggled and it's, we didn't want to heap that on our kids. 'cause we've never wanted to be like all cancer all the time. Cancer should always be a part of their life, but it shouldn't dominate.

[00:18:12] Trevor Maxwell: Right? And I've always told the girls, even at that young age, the best thing that you can do for me when I'm going through this is to live your life. Be happy, you know, be joyous. Do the activities that you love. I know that you're gonna worry about me and my health and we'll keep you updated.

[00:18:29] Trevor Maxwell: But the best thing you can do is just try to live your life, the be the best you can. But also realizing that it's a tough circumstance because not a lot of their peers in their school had a parent at a young age going through that. Like, it's not like they could reach out to their peers and have these discussions.

[00:18:46] Trevor Maxwell: So the other thing we did was try to connect them. Pretty early on with the Dempsey Center here in Maine that provides resources. a counselor, like a little group. even if they decided not to go or not to do it, they knew that they had someone [00:19:00] outside of their parents that they could talk about if they needed it.

[00:19:03] Trevor Maxwell: so I guess that's a long way of saying there's no guidebook. And if there is, I never got it on how to parent through cancer, but we tried to keep them informed without making it overwhelming. we never wanted to be dishonest or lie to them. now that they're 20 and 18 and they've gone through all these surgeries with me and all of this treatment with me, and in 2021 and in 2023 things got really dicey.

[00:19:26] Trevor Maxwell: like you, Brad, like we were really preparing and we're still preparing in a way, right? Like, you know, my prognosis is still terminal. but we don't know what that means, right? Because it's a new era for patients to manage. What would've been like you said, Dr. Josie 10, 15 years ago, managing this as a chronic illness would not have been possible.

[00:19:45] Trevor Maxwell: So we're pushing the frontier of science. even my team at Yale now, my doctors at Yale, they'll say like, you're beyond the textbook and we don't know. Right? Like, yes, your prognosis, we think at some point probably you will [00:20:00] die of your cancer. But we can't say what that looks like. and you might not, you might be one of these people that we can get to old age managing this as a chronic illness.

[00:20:09] Trevor Maxwell: I might always have cancer in my body and we might always be doing things. so yeah. I guess like we've done our best to be as honest as we can without overwhelming them. But as they go get older, like you said, they start having more of a knowledge, right?

[00:20:21] Trevor Maxwell: they start being able to really understand and they knew. In 2023, the last time when I went through HIPEC, they knew, that I needed things to work or I wasn't gonna have much of a long life after that. And, so it is a burden, right? it's a burden on the kids, but it's also a gift, if you can look at it that way, because I know my girls are gonna be stronger, more resilient, more compassionate.

[00:20:45] Trevor Maxwell: they are gonna, the trivial things in life aren't gonna bother them as much as their peers. they're gonna be set up for, you know, they have a lot of tools and they have a lot more resilience through going through this. And we have to look at it on that side because we don't get the [00:21:00] choice to remove it from them.

[00:21:02] What is HIPEC

[00:21:02] Brad Buchanan: Yeah, that, that is really well said. Could you just explain really quick what HIPEC is? 'cause I, don't happen to know.

[00:21:08] Trevor Maxwell: So HIPEC is, oh gosh, I'm gonna remember it. Gimme a second here. hyperthermic intraperitoneal chemotherapy.

[00:21:19] Brad Buchanan: So is that, is that hot chemo?

[00:21:22] Trevor Maxwell: it is. It's considered,

[00:21:24] Trevor Maxwell: Okay.

[00:21:24] Trevor Maxwell: it's called, it's called one of the mothers of all surgeries, but basically they open you from below your belly button all the way up to your rib cage.

[00:21:31] Trevor Maxwell: They retract you so your whole abdomen is fully open. They go in and basically look for any visible cancer that they can find from the scans beforehand, but also anything in the field. So they're looking for any macroscopic disease. They are looking to go in and either scoop it out or wedge it out or resect it wherever it is.

[00:21:49] Trevor Maxwell: And this is in the spaces between the organs, basically. or if it's like on the surface of your liver, the surface of your spleen. Oftentimes, when colorectal cancer spread or any type of [00:22:00] cancer spreads into the peritoneum, you get these little implants of disease throughout the cavity. And so they go in, take out any macro disease, then they temporarily close you up and they, push heated chemotherapy.

[00:22:14] Trevor Maxwell: I think it's. Like 110 degrees or 107 degrees heated chemotherapy that is circulated throughout your abdominal cavity. And they even call it and I love this shake and bake. where they actually manually will move your body around on the table to try to get all of that heated chemo in the nooks and crannies between your organs.

[00:22:36] Trevor Maxwell: With the idea being that that heated chemo, if it comes in contact with microscopic cancer, it has the ability, the heat improves the ability of the chemotherapy to kill those microscopic cancer cells. so that it's a big hairy, scary surgery, but a lot of people with colorectal cancer and other cancers that does spread to the abdomen.

[00:22:58] Trevor Maxwell: It is a, [00:23:00] it's an amazing Right. It basically reset my cancer clock.

[00:23:04] Trevor Maxwell: Okay. Wow.

[00:23:05] Trevor Maxwell: yeah. so it's quite a surgery. I did mine at Massachusetts General Hospital, so MGH, so shout out to the team there that did that. they did four of my surgeries and they're amazing,

[00:23:16] Impact on parent child relationship part 2. 

[00:23:16] Brad Buchanan: Okay. Wow. thank you for sharing that. I think it's very 

[00:23:20] Brad Buchanan: relatable to a lot of people. as you point out, there is no playbook for this, which is exactly why we need to talk about it, right?

[00:23:27] Brad Buchanan: Just like, here's what we did and here's maybe the upside or the downside. Uh, we actually, we told our kids separately 'cause we thought there was a very different big difference between the 10 year old's point of view the six year old's point of view. We still don't know whether that was the right move or not.

[00:23:43] Brad Buchanan: the 10-year-old asked, intelligent questions, made a plan. She wanted to tell three of her friends each day to control the flow of information, but she wanted people to know. And the 6-year-old kind of danced around, took off her pants and [00:24:00] behaved, like the way a 6-year-old will behave.

[00:24:04] Trevor Maxwell: you're right and having our girls be two years apart, we kinda had it a little easier. if we'd had a four plus year difference, It's a very different situation. So man, I 

[00:24:12] Trevor Maxwell: think, and you, you know, you just do the best you can.

[00:24:15] Trevor Maxwell: I think that's another thing for parents to know. When you're parenting with cancer, like sometimes it's gonna be a shit show, sometimes it's gonna be messy. Sometimes you're gonna look back and be like, oh my God. but you know what, getting through it together and being there, .

[00:24:26] Trevor Maxwell: There was a lot of self grace in parenting kids while going through this.

[00:24:31] Brad Buchanan: Yeah. I think that's good to remember. You know, and thinking back now, like my 6-year-old actually made me do a pinky promise that I would survive long enough to see her children be born. And, I was like. I know I shouldn't be promising this 'cause you're not supposed to promise things that you cannot deliver, but I'm like, if I can't keep the promise, I'll be gone anyway.

[00:24:54] Brad Buchanan: So I won't get, I won't feel any consequences. It'll be [00:25:00] its own punishment.

[00:25:01] Trevor Maxwell: I support that 

[00:25:01] Trevor Maxwell: Breaking this promise.

[00:25:03] Trevor Maxwell: that's a whole different thing, right? and you gotta also assess what they need in real time. And some children need something. 

[00:25:09] Brad Buchanan: Right. Yeah, no, it was something that she could literally hang onto in that moment. our little bond. Yeah. And who knows, maybe that's what gave me that extra ounce of like, let's keep going. Like get up, get to the next appointment, go to the clinical trial. Just like I, you know, I would've done anything to survive.

[00:25:31] Brad Buchanan: Like I wanted to survive in the worst way and as the joke might go. And that's exactly what I did. I survived in the worst way.

[00:25:39] Different mindsets of cancer patients/survivors

[00:25:39] Trevor Maxwell: Yeah. you're raising a great point because again, back to individuality, some cancer patients, they look at this, from their mentality as like, I'm going to survive. There is no other option. Death is not an option. And they are laser focused, and that's what they tell everyone, and that is their, like, that's where they need to live, right?

[00:25:58] Trevor Maxwell: that's where they need to have [00:26:00] that mindset of, you know, of course I'm gonna survive and I'm gonna be there for all these things. And then there's others at the total opposite end of that spectrum who Cannot envision survival at all. And have no hope.

[00:26:12] Trevor Maxwell: And then there's others Like I have a practical side of me that knows that this cancer is lethal. and I've seen too many of my friends pass away who've done all the quote unquote right things. And then I have the other side of me that absolutely envisions my future with my kids and if I'm blessed enough for them to have a family and be there for that and all that stuff.

[00:26:33] Trevor Maxwell: So I try to carry all that and not get super attached to, either one.

[00:26:40] Brad Buchanan: Yeah, I will say that going through it, I was of the first category, like, there's no freaking way I'm dying of this shit. Like, no way. It's not happening. even when I was at my absolute worst, like kind of hovering between life and death, I just thought, okay, I am the boxer that's been knocked down on the [00:27:00] canvas and I will somehow get up, before the 10 count.

[00:27:02] Brad Buchanan: I don't know how, I don't know how long that 10 count's gonna last, but I will somehow get through it. 

[00:27:08] Trevor Maxwell: I mean, I think I had both. Like honestly, I thought I was gonna die. I vividly remember several times, especially early on when I, especially when I was depressed, I was clinically depressed, like first year, a lot of that time. And at that time I was convinced that I was gonna die and my family. Um, , but then in that I also still.

[00:27:31] Trevor Maxwell: I also still, it was weird. It's like, it's this weird duality, like I was convinced I was gonna die. And then at other times I felt just like you did. Like hell no. This is not taking me out. Like I am not, I am not going down. Like I'm gonna get through this. So maybe it can be both sometimes.

[00:27:48] Brad Buchanan: I think, yeah, and certainly there were times where I was like, I would go on these long walks thinking like I have to make my peace with this. And like I made my estate plan, I picked up the spot in the graveyard where my cremated [00:28:00] ashes would live, paid for the lot, got my affairs in order because I knew the probabilities are pretty good, that I was gonna pack it in, you know, with one thing in another.

[00:28:11] Brad Buchanan: And I kept getting these like, oh, you have about a year to live moments from my very smart oncologist. fortunately, you know, he was not right about that one. But anyway, so yeah, I had to have those attitudes simultaneously coexisting. I mean, I think that's how we are as human beings. We're like, we know intellectually that we will die, but we're like, not today.

[00:28:34] Trevor Maxwell: Not today.

[00:28:35] Brad Buchanan: we're not getting knocked out in round four. You know, we're taking this to the distance, it's going to the judges

[00:28:40] Toxic Positivity

[00:28:40] Trevor Maxwell: Yeah. And, I know we haven't even gone into MANUP to cancer yet, but I have to respond to that by taking a shot at the toxic positivity crowd, because like the toxic positivity in cancer land is so maddening. I've had people literally say to me like, the things that you did, things that I've done, like advanced directive and making preparations [00:29:00] for the possibility of my death, which I am a metastatic cancer patient, right?

[00:29:05] Trevor Maxwell: but the toxic positivity crowd would say, oh, you're manifesting now, or you can't be thinking about those things or doing those things because if you even say it or name it into the universe, then you're basically asking to die. Like literally had people say this to me, it's freaking crazy.

[00:29:22] Trevor Maxwell: and a lot of those people don't have cancer and they've never gone through cancer, and they're telling me that I need to be positive all the time. Like if you're not positive all the time, you're not gonna get out of this. You're like, you're gonna pass, you're gonna, cancer's gonna kill you.

[00:29:35] Trevor Maxwell: And so I have to say this to anyone listening, there is no reliable science that equates your mindset in terms of like thinking you're gonna die or thinking you're not gonna die with your actual outcome. There are people that are convinced they're gonna pass away who live to a ripe old age, and there are those who are convinced they're gonna live who don't.

[00:29:57] Trevor Maxwell: So I say that because I have great [00:30:00] compassion for anyone who's in that place of feeling, I'm not gonna make it. they should not ever feel guilty about feeling that emotion that is normal, that is healthy, that is real. So stop telling us what to think or how to feel as cancer patients. We are allowed to feel all of it, even when all of it means scary and sad.

[00:30:27] Brad Buchanan: Yeah. And you know, to that very point, you know, I was, I was taking these long walks, near my home in Sacramento and one of the walks took me through the cemetery and I was lingering there kind of feeling sorry for myself, frankly. Like, just like, man, this sucks. I'm probably gonna end up here in the next year or so.

[00:30:45] Brad Buchanan: Uh, trying to write poetry, all the poetry is really bad, but still, it had to get written and I end up wandering into the, the main building on the cemetery lot, just kinda like, getting a vibe. And I, and then I'm like, well, I need to use the can like [00:31:00] right now. So, and I go have to talk to the lady, where's the bathroom? so anyway, we get to talking and I'm like. You know what, gimme a brochure. And so I go home and talk to my wife and, I'm almost ashamed to admit, yeah, I've been walking in the cemetery, because that sounds morbid.

[00:31:17] Brad Buchanan: That sounds like, you know, self pity. Uh, all the, all the bad stuff, you know, the, the toxic positivity, people would say test. But when I handed my wife that brochure and said, I think we need to explore this, she was like, thank you, thank you so damn much for making like the time to deal with this now, so that I don't have to deal with it a year from now without you here, and I'm not knowing what your wishes would be.

[00:31:46] Trevor Maxwell: This is good. Like, I'm already like thinking about my podcast that I'm bringing back, and I like Brad, we have so many episodes that we could do.

[00:31:54] Brad Buchanan: I'm here for it.

[00:31:56] Trevor Maxwell: All right, cool. So yeah, we can move into the next topic [00:32:00] if you want.

[00:32:00] The Origin of Man Up To Cancer

[00:32:00] Brad Buchanan: I think this is the time to pivot to the Man Up To Cancer narrative, which I think does have its roots in your mental health crisis after getting the diagnosis and the terrible prognosis that you've kind of alluded to here.

[00:32:14] Brad Buchanan: So yeah, if you wouldn't mind sharing that.

[00:32:18] Trevor Maxwell: Yeah, it did. I mean. So when I, first I went through the shock, right after diagnosis was a physiological shock period where I didn't really have much emotions other than like, what is happening. After the shock kind of started wearing off and I went into chemo, and then into my first surgery, within, six months of being diagnosed, I fell into a incredibly hard depression.

[00:32:47] Trevor Maxwell: my depression was deep and it was also mingled with, incredibly excruciating anxiety. the depression and the intermingled anxiety it all came from a place [00:33:00] of, I wanna say kind of fear but not really. It's, it's more just like grief. it really did come from a place of just incredible grief. You're in the middle of your life. You're raising your children, you're doing your work, you're living life. And then you are, in this place where you are dependent on a system.

[00:33:16] Trevor Maxwell: I'm a journalist by training. Journalism is my background, like writer reader. Like immediately I go and I look at the statistics and I see that for stage four colorectal cancer, less than 15% of the patients are alive at five years after diagnosis. And man did that hit, like, it just hit like a ton of bricks. my mental health just deteriorated quickly and rapidly to the point where I was almost going into inpatient care for my mental health for depression, with nothing to do with the cancer. So I started isolating. my wife would go to work in the morning.

[00:33:56] Trevor Maxwell: The kids would go off to school and I would crawl into bed, [00:34:00] or I would, sometimes I would go into the girl's room and I would just be amongst their stuff and I would just, I would weep, like literally weeping for hours at a time. I wasn't functioning, I wasn't able to talk to people or make a phone call or, I couldn't work.

[00:34:17] Trevor Maxwell: I had to stop working. I, I just felt crushed. And then on top of that, I started to feel shame. And the shame came from when I would be online trying to read about other cancer stories or get guidance or like books or magazines or anything. The pop culture image of the man going through cancer is a

[00:34:41] Trevor Maxwell: super Manish. It is. the guy is working full-time, he's going through chemo like, oh, no problem. He is providing for his family. He's playing with his kids. He's confident, capable, taking this on like any other challenge in my life, like, huh, I got this right. he's running, [00:35:00] he's fundraising and doing 10 Ks and like all this stuff, and

[00:35:02] Trevor Maxwell: He's Lance Armstrong, and I am literally broken. So not only did I get cancer, then I feel like I'm failing because shouldn't I be dealing with this better? Like, it looks like everyone around me that I see doesn't have the problems that I do. And so I started to feel ashamed. I had, you know, my dad, my, my father, and my friends are over stacking my wood for the winter, mowing my lawn, doing the physical tasks that I'm, that I love to do. And I am depressed, sick, and dying. And so that went on for a while. That year, 2018 into toward 2019, I was lost and I was a shell of myself. and I felt ashamed. And then something happened. And it was my wife Sarah. So my wife, Sarah and I are high school [00:36:00] sweethearts. We've been together since 1993. And as I withdrew and as I became more isolated and more depressed. She, wouldn't let me leave. I told her, I'm going up to the woods of Maine and I'm leaving you because you and the kids are better off without me.

[00:36:18] Trevor Maxwell: I am a burden and I just wanna be alone. I just wanna go up to the woods and die. And like we're having this conversation today. Can you imagine me saying that? I was in that place and my will to live was really holding on by a thread. And for a long time I was ashamed to even admit that because I've got children.

[00:36:36] Trevor Maxwell: You're supposed to be there for your children. But when someone is clinically, when they have clinical depression and anxiety, I wasn't thinking straight. I was just thinking that I was a burden. And my wife said, you're not going anywhere. you need help. And so right around Christmas of 2019.

[00:36:56] Trevor Maxwell: We had a conversation that changed my life and [00:37:00] I was depressed and crying and everything else. And she was on her last piece of sanity. And she said to me like we need you. We need you to come back to this family And I said, I just can't get over the idea that the girls are going to, I'm gonna die and the girls are gonna remember me as sick. And she looked at me and she had that look on her face like, I need to give you some tough love. And I was like, whatever it is, just say it. And she said, I'm not worried they're gonna remember you as sick. I'm worried they're gonna remember you as sad. I probably told that story 500 times in the past 500 years because It was a changing moment for me. It was the Shawshank Redemption. Anyone familiar with that film remembers the line, you know, get busy living or get busy dying. It was that moment that I realized that, and I told her this, I said, I'm in a deep pit right now and I'm not gonna get out overnight and I'm not gonna just snap my fingers and be [00:38:00] okay 'cause that's not how depression works.

[00:38:02] Trevor Maxwell: But from tomorrow, starting tomorrow and every day forward, I'm gonna do something to try to help me. I'm gonna go get help and I'm going to do something every day to try to get me outta this pit so that I can be myself again, because I'm not a sad person. I'm a happy person and I love life and I love my kids and I love everything about life.

[00:38:27] Trevor Maxwell: But I had become, instead of external, I had become a very internal grieving lost. Person because of this, what I was going through. And that was really, again, it wasn't like some movie where it was like, I'm okay now. Like, I'm like, but what it did do was this, it forced me to get help. And this is the sticking point where many men don't get beyond, forget about asking for directions at the gas station.

[00:38:57] Trevor Maxwell: We're talking about getting real and [00:39:00] getting help with your emotional landscape and saying, I am lost and depressed and I need help. And doing that saved my life because I went to the Dempsey Center, a place founded by Patrick Dempsey here in Maine that does group counseling, individual counseling.

[00:39:21] Trevor Maxwell: Exercise, nutrition, reiki, massage, like all of the things that you could need as a cancer patient except for the treatment they do for free for patients and their families. And I went there, literally, this was within days of this conversation, I went to the Dempsey Center and I just picked something on their menu and I went to guided meditation and there was eight or 10 breast cancer patients and survivors in this room.

[00:39:50] Trevor Maxwell: And I walked in and they looked at me and it was for pan-cancer, right? It was guided meditation for anyone with cancer. But I was the only male in there. And they kind of looked at me [00:40:00] like I was in the doorway and I'm six four, like 230 pounds. And I think they thought I was there to like change out some, you know, air conditioning unit and, and I was like, I'm a stage four colon cancer patient.

[00:40:12] Trevor Maxwell: I have two young daughters. I need help. For the next hour, that group of women held me, held me up, gave me love, gave me support, let me cry. and that was my first interaction with other patients. And that was my start of my road to recovery. And I had a counselor there at the Dempsey Center named Patty, and I went into her office and I was literally on the floor of her office, on my knees, crying and shaking.

[00:40:42] Trevor Maxwell: And she, I met with her every week for the next six months. I could not get out of that emotional pit on my own. I needed the help that was available to me. And with that help I got better. And my cancer kept going. I Kept doing surgeries and [00:41:00] treatment and all that shit, but I started to recover.

[00:41:04] Trevor Maxwell: I started to recover who I was. And, but not just that, because you never go back to who you were with a cancer diagnosis. Anyone who thinks they're gonna go back to the way they were, that doesn't exist. You either grow through it or you just go through it. and that's when I really started to not only recover my core, but to become right

[00:41:24] Trevor Maxwell: to really improve myself. and I started to heal emotionally. And that is the genesis of Man Up To Cancer. Because at the Dempsey Center, online, everywhere I went, every cancer resource space that I went to, to help myself survive and heal emotionally, it's always dominated. 75%, 80% plus women, and 20% men.

[00:41:50] Trevor Maxwell: I saw this gender gap. And in my mind, there was one of two things true. Either I was just this weak male [00:42:00] and most of the other males had this all figured out, and I was weak because of my depression and anxiety. Or there's thousands of other guys feeling just like I did in that same place.

[00:42:13] Trevor Maxwell: But feeling like culture isn't gonna allow me to show this or to get help for it because I'm not supposed to feel like this. I'm not supposed to, be failing. Like I'm supposed to be like, I'm the man. Like, isn't this Western culture? You get a challenge and you figure it out and you deal with it, and you make it.

[00:42:30] Trevor Maxwell: Okay, well, that's not the way it is. And, so I knew that the second thing was true. I knew that there's so many men struggling with that emotional, that social and emotional burden on your shoulders. But I just felt like. There's just not very many spaces where it's safe for them to go and name that and to get help for that.

[00:42:55] Trevor Maxwell: and that was the end of 19, going into 2020. I said, with the help of my [00:43:00] wife, I have an idea to build a support community for men by men where men could go in. 'cause I knew that men were not going into these co-ed spaces and talking about their pain, their loss, their grief, their intimacy issues what cancer's done to them physically and erectile dysfunction and intimacy

[00:43:22] Trevor Maxwell: issues with confidence and loss. Loss of, you know, emasculation, like all that, all that stuff like. It is 2025, and we all want to think that all men are just cool to go, like air those things in a co-ed environment. And that's just not the case for most men. And so I built Man Up To Cancer as a men's support community with the mission to inspire men to connect and avoid isolation going through cancer.

[00:43:48] Trevor Maxwell: knowing that maybe it was just because a lot of these cancer resource spaces just don't feel comfortable or don't feel safe for men to really go in and share what they're really [00:44:00] feeling. And so I started a website and a podcast and a Facebook group Man Up To Cancer, didn't become a nonprofit until the fall of 2023.

[00:44:11] Trevor Maxwell: So at the beginning it was literally just my call to action saying, Hey. Men isolate at a far higher rate. We know this from behavioral science. We know this anecdotally, men isolate at a far higher rate. The consequences of isolation are horrible, from broken relationships to substance abuse, to poor mental health, to worse quality of life and shorter life.

[00:44:37] Trevor Maxwell: And so, man Up to Cancer was my kind of antidote to that. I was like, this should be, it'll be part of this movement to say that men struggle too. They just might need a different environment to share and to find that support that they're looking for and to get out of their man cave, 

[00:44:57] Trevor Maxwell: I'll say this, going through cancer alone, [00:45:00] the burden feels like a million pounds on your shoulders, but when you go through it together with others who have that shared, lived experience. It just, it takes, it feels lighter. It just does, it feels lighter. It feels, it feels like just to know that you, you have others who are going through it with you and that you're not alone.

[00:45:19] Trevor Maxwell: For me and for so many people who've joined our movement in the past six years, that is the feedback that we get from them. And that's what my experience has been. So thank you for letting me, I'm happy to answer any other questions that you have , and, and so that's how it began was just seeing that, that men are not accessing resources and they're not coming to these places that help save my life.

[00:45:42] Trevor Maxwell: So what can I do to, to provide a new space that might help? And my wife, again, was the one who's like, you need to do this idea. And I was on disability and she's the, the primary breadwinner for us. And I was like, should I try to go out and get a, a job? Like right as my mental health improve, but I have this concept for [00:46:00]this thing that I want to do.

[00:46:01] Trevor Maxwell: And she's like, you need to do that. It brings me to tears every time because she didn't, she didn't have to do that. Right? If she had said to me like, you know what, that's a great idea, but someone else will do that. Why don't you go like, find an office job and try to contribute. so I'm forever grateful that she's like, you know what?

[00:46:21] Trevor Maxwell: This is amazing. You should go build this. Go do it. And you're gonna find other like-minded people who want to build this with you and, want the same thing, who wanna bring men out of that isolation and into community. And Brad talking to you in the fall of 2025, you're a perfect example, right, of someone who saw that and says, I resonate with that.

[00:46:45] Trevor Maxwell: I wanna be part of that and I wanna help lead that and I wanna help other men who are in that isolation feel not so alone. So the concept itself is not rocket science. it's not super complicated. It's men isolate at a higher rate.

[00:46:57] Trevor Maxwell: That isolation is really bad for us when we're [00:47:00] going through cancer. And even by just tackling that isolation piece, not only do we improve the quality of life, but we actually help you with all the other pieces of cancer. It's so that's pretty simple. The hard part is culture change because as men we are still taught that 

[00:47:17] Trevor Maxwell: We shouldn't need help. And that seeking help is a weakness that is still very much part of the male culture and messaging that we get growing up and being in this culture in 2025, like. I don't see, um, yes, progress has been made. People ask me like, is it different with younger people? I'm like, yeah, sometimes.

[00:47:36] Trevor Maxwell: But oftentimes they have it even more like the messaging for men, the cultural conditioning is still that asking for help is a weakness and I see it as a strength. that's the culture change that's trickier is, is showing men that if you wanna be there for your people, if you wanna survive, if you want to be the guy that you think you are, then getting help is gonna help you get there.[00:48:00]

[00:48:00] Trevor Maxwell: So with that, I'll turn it back over to you, Brad,

[00:48:03] G van Londen: Or, yeah. Trevor, I wanted to reflect on the fact that you, have chosen, the words you used to describe your transformation is, I think, very helpful for everybody who listens . and thank you for sharing. This is, heart wrenching for you and your family and for everybody who listens and, resonates it, it will help other men be validated.

[00:48:29] G van Londen: It'll help other men become empowered to reach out for help. one of the things I wanted to ask is what is man up to cancer? how is it virtual? is it a physical place? What type of services do you offer? I want people who listen after they're finished with listening to this episode to go online and sign up, so that they know where to go, what to do.

[00:48:54] What does Man Up To Cancer Do

[00:48:55] Trevor Maxwell: Absolutely. and that's the perfect segway and I thank you so much for, [00:49:00] seeing me, supporting what I do. outside of raising my children, doing this work where I support other men going through cancer has been the most meaningful thing that I've done in my trips around the sun, in this body suit.

[00:49:13] Trevor Maxwell: So what is Man Up to Cancer now? So we've, we have evolved and, well actually, I started it right around when 2020 started because men isolate going through cancer. A couple months later, everyone's isolated in their homes because of COVID. So it actually, and all of a sudden men are facing double isolation.

[00:49:31] Trevor Maxwell: I feel like the timing was really good actually. I had a concept of Man Up to Cancer being a men's support community where we would do retreats and in-person meetups and online support But a concept doesn't get anywhere without other people coming in and working on it with you.

[00:49:47] Trevor Maxwell: So I will shout out to my right hand man, Joe Bullock. I met Joe Bullock, another CRC survivor through Colontown Online. And when I launched the Facebook page for Man Up To Cancer, Joe Bullock was the [00:50:00] first to join and he told me that first week, I want to do this with you.

[00:50:05] Trevor Maxwell: Like this is what I've been looking for, for advocacy for years. I wanna work on this with you. I feel drawn to this and Joe has been my right hand man for almost six years, every day and also become one of my best friends. you need that first person. Well, they call it the first follower, right?

[00:50:22] Trevor Maxwell: Someone has an idea. Then the first followers actually even more important. 'cause then, then they give legitimacy and then it kind of goes downhill from there. so Joe, um, I, and I say, I put up the framework. He brings most of the people into the group. He has the biggest heart of anyone in Cancerland.

[00:50:39] Trevor Maxwell: so really, I'll keep it somewhat brief, but the Facebook group started right around the first part of 2020. the website, man Up to Cancer. It's now man up to cancer.org and the Man Up to Cancer podcast, which I'm bringing back for next year. those all got rolling and then the community just started to grow.

[00:50:56] Trevor Maxwell: So especially the Facebook group. Private Facebook group just [00:51:00] started to grow and we started to hear from male patients saying, this is what I'm looking for, like a band of brothers who are going through it together. fast forward to the fall of 2025 where we are right now.

[00:51:13] Trevor Maxwell: We became a nonprofit two years ago, and we have three core programs. We have the local chapters, so we're somewhere in the 40 ish ballpark of local chapters. And so here in Maine, we have a local chapter. We have probably around 60 guys right now, and we try to have an in-person meetup in different parts of the state, once a month, and we have a private chat space.

[00:51:37] Trevor Maxwell: the local chapters really take the message of Man Up to Cancer and bring people together at a regional or local level. The second thing we do is a chemo care backpack program. Each month we send backpacks filled with practical and comfort items for people going through treatment to members of our community.

[00:51:55] Trevor Maxwell: none of this costs anything to our members. All of our programs are free for members. [00:52:00] and then our third program is our retreats. each year we have a large annual retreat. now held at Pocono Springs Camp in eastern Pennsylvania. this year for our retreat for September of 2025, we had 165 men served from all different ages, all different cancer types.

[00:52:19] Trevor Maxwell: Um, 33 US states, I think most of the Canadian provinces and a couple other countries we had it. It's, a fantastic retreat where we blend all kinds of fun activities and relaxation and fun stuff with some learning opportunities as well. And then we also have regional retreats in North America that the chapter's set up.

[00:52:43] Trevor Maxwell: so we have, the regional retreats as well and it's all pulled together by our own private space online. So we moved away this year, we moved away from Facebook onto the Circle Community platform. that is a website and an app that MANUP to [00:53:00] cancer. We own it and control it, and we get to change it and upgrade it.

[00:53:04] Trevor Maxwell: that's where we manage our community and programs from and On the MANUP to cancer app, members of our community can get 24 7 support. So let's say you're having a scan next week, you can go onto the app and start a chat with the whole group and say, Hey guys, I'm scanning next week and I'm starting to spin out a little bit.

[00:53:24] Trevor Maxwell: Is there anyone who can, you know, is going through this or can anyone chat? And there's almost always multiple people who will chat on the phone or on the computer or even have a phone call. To say I'm with you. I've gone through a lot of these, or Yeah, I have a scan coming up too, and I'm feeling pretty nervous.

[00:53:41] Trevor Maxwell: so that peer-to-peer support online is kind of, that really is kind of the core of the support is on the, in the website, in the app. and then the other pieces of it just, build around that support. So really it's social. We support the social and emotional wellbeing of men going through any type of [00:54:00] cancer.

[00:54:00] Trevor Maxwell: those are the programs we have now. the first step for anyone who wants to get involved with our programs is to just come and register at manuptocancer.org. It's, it'll take less, it's like a five minute registration. Our onboarders check it out, give you the thumbs up, and then you get an invite to join the community.

[00:54:19] Trevor Maxwell: once you're in the community, you have 24 7 support. a chapter chat. you can get involved in your local chapter, you can sign up for one of the retreats. next year we hope to have about 200 people on site at Pocono Springs Camp. So it is the world's largest men's cancer retreat.

[00:54:36] Trevor Maxwell: I don't know, Brad, maybe you wanna weigh in on the retreat?

[00:54:41] Man Up To Cancer Retreat

[00:54:41] Brad Buchanan: Oh, it was amazing. I mean, first of all, it was a beautiful camp. The nicest cabins I've ever been in. you know, the food was great. They accommodated my weird dietary, uh. Uh, fetishes, uh, so to speak. And, but honestly, like the most meaningful stuff to me was the [00:55:00] fireside, conversations where guys would get up and tell us where they were at, you know, and some guys were there saying goodbye, basically.

[00:55:07] Brad Buchanan: Like, this was the last time that, you know, that they'd be with us. And, you know, that they had their buddies by their side. one guy in particular, was in my cabin and we had a long talk after he got up to tell us, you know, that his, brothers were walking him home. And I just thought, man, this is what it's all about.

[00:55:29] Brad Buchanan: It's like, this is the last support group I'll ever need, you know, because it's a group that does not shy away from the reality of mortality and the reality that we need support. On that last leg of our journeys, at least in human form and, that the brotherhood lasts, you know, through that process and even beyond it.

[00:55:52] Trevor Maxwell: I think like that's probably what I'm most proud of is it is about walking people home. [00:56:00] And, being there for them when others kind of fade away. a lot of our members, they don't have the same support that I have. Like, I have a supportive spouse, I have a supportive family, I have a supportive local community.

[00:56:13] Trevor Maxwell: A lot of these folks come to us without that. And it can be even more meaningful. for someone who doesn't have community, we are there for you.

[00:56:21] Trevor Maxwell: Right. we're not gonna turn away when it gets hardest. And we're also not gonna be that cancer support group that's gonna just be all this like, rah rah, like, everyone's gonna make it like, you know, like it's just too, again, toxic positivity. Like this is real. We live and die together.

[00:56:38] Brad Buchanan: Yeah.

[00:56:39] Trevor Maxwell: and 

[00:56:39] Trevor Maxwell: you know, what a great comfort it's gonna be for me when it is my time to know that I have this brotherhood who is gonna be there for me and be there at the last, you know, that last transition part of my life.

[00:56:52] The Role of Communities

[00:56:52] Trevor Maxwell: I'm really glad you mentioned that. the other thing I guess I'm most proud of is to see the transformation that a man can go through. [00:57:00] There's a member of our main chapter who, before he found man up to cancer was feeling utterly lost, kind of where I was. The depression, the anxiety, the isolation, just he didn't have a place.

[00:57:12] Trevor Maxwell: I've watched this man come into the main chapter, attend the Gathering of Wolves Retreat this year, and have the support in our circle community online with the scaffolding of this support. I see the transformation in him. I see the light back in his eyes. I see someone who feels supported, feels held up, feels loved, by people who are going through it.

[00:57:41] Trevor Maxwell: and he'll tell me too, he'll reach out and send me a text or an email saying, man, up to cancer has changed my life. I am so happy to be in it with you and to be walking this road with you and for me to see that individual transformation is what it's all about.

[00:57:55] Trevor Maxwell: and that doesn't depend on the quantity of numbers. Like honestly, yes, I [00:58:00] want to grow our programs and bring more men in. And so growing the local chapters is the biggest thing for me. I wanna see that those chapters grow and support more men. But it's not about the number, it's about the quality.

[00:58:12] Trevor Maxwell: It's about the quality of the relationships. and it's about Man Up to Cancer, being able to help bring that change because otherwise why are we doing it? our whole goal is to improve the quality of life of the people who come into our community. And to see this guy here in Maine, to see that happen for him, even at a small scale, that is why I started this.

[00:58:36] Trevor Maxwell: Like that's why I do this work. like I always tell people like get community, whether it's Man Up to Cancer and other communities, , as long as you're getting outta that isolation and getting support.

[00:58:48] Trevor Maxwell: The magic is love. The magic is community. Finding your people No, none of us chose to, to this tribe to be our people. No one's out there being like, you know what would be really cool is to join the cancer [00:59:00] community.

[00:59:00] Trevor Maxwell: they seem really supportive. but you don't get a choice, right? And so then once you have it, it's about connecting with others. And I'm really proud that Man Up To Cancer can be a leader in that, in the guy to guy space because there needs to be women to women spaces, co-ed spaces, and man to man spaces right now.

[00:59:18] Trevor Maxwell: and I'm proud that we could fill a void that I feel like is just, there's such an unmet need for the social and emotional wellbeing of men and to normalize what we go through and to have role models like Brad and role models like the leadership team. Who are saying like, you know, you don't have to give up your man part if you consider yourself that way, you can still keep all of the things that you think make yourself a man.

[00:59:43] Trevor Maxwell: But you can also ask for and receive help. You can give help. You can say I love you to another man in a supportive, authentic way, and have that be really meaningful. so I think Brad, and I hope, like I know that you believe that you're with me on this, that we are [01:00:00] part of a culture change and we don't do it alone.

[01:00:03] Trevor Maxwell: I hope there's other groups just like us that spring up in the next several years that give, give men, we're redefining what masculinity is, we're adding in the piece. That vulnerability is a strength.

[01:00:15] Trevor Maxwell: Asking for help is a strength. and that doesn't just apply to cancer. That applies to our whole lives.

[01:00:21] Redefining Manning Up

[01:00:21] Brad Buchanan: Yeah, 100%. And I think 

[01:00:24] Brad Buchanan: you know what the Man Up to Cancer brand does is it redefines what it means to man up to something, right? Just 'cause the old way of manning up to something is just shutting up, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, putting your head down, working harder. not burdening anyone with your thoughts and feelings which is the exact opposite of what you need to do when you get a cancer diagnosis, right?

[01:00:52] Brad Buchanan: Where that's cancer is life's way of telling you, you can't do this alone, buddy.

[01:00:57] Brad Buchanan: Oh 

[01:00:58] Trevor Maxwell: yeah. that is so true. [01:01:00] and you're spot on. it's always been kind of tongue in cheek because that whole idea of, man, that old idea that you just talked about of manning up is so limiting and so harmful in a lot of ways. Like, um, so we wanted, I wanted to co-opt it and say for cancer that to man up when you're going through cancer means having the courage to accept help along the way.

[01:01:22] Trevor Maxwell: And you'll notice our tagline is Open heart warrior spirit. There's a reason for this because warrior Spirit's really important and I had to cultivate the warrior side of me. Like I honestly didn't have enough fight at the beginning. Like to really be like, I am in this and I am going to do this. 

[01:01:41] Trevor Maxwell: You need that strength. you need a warrior spirit to go through this because some of the things that you've gone through, Brad, some of the things that I've gone through are not for the faint of heart.

[01:01:50] Trevor Maxwell: this requires a bit of an edge. It requires a little bit of mojo. You've gotta have that warrior mojo to go in and be like, all right, I'm taking this on. Right? but if you're [01:02:00] too over cultivated on that part and you don't have that open heart, it doesn't work. So open heart means, like all the things we're talking about here, it's being willing to feel all of it and communicate all of it and be vulnerable sometimes and ask for help.

[01:02:15] Trevor Maxwell: Having that open heart and connecting with others along the way in a heartfelt, in a heart-centered manner. I find that having both of those, and that's what I preach right out there with open Heart Warrior spirit is to cultivate all of that. it's not like one comes at the expense of the other.

[01:02:34] Trevor Maxwell: if you have a warrior spirit, it's not like you can't have an open heart. we want to have both.

[01:02:38] Brad Buchanan: Well, you know, this is where I live, so I like it.

[01:02:41] Trevor Maxwell: yeah.

[01:02:42] Soldier vs Warrior

[01:02:42] Brad Buchanan: But you know, there's a difference between the soldier and the warrior, right? The warrior, doesn't necessarily follow orders all the time. The soldier just kind of uncomplainingly executes the word of command at the appropriate time.

[01:02:58] Brad Buchanan: when I was going through my cancer [01:03:00] treatments, I felt like a soldier in World War I getting like sent out into the trenches to get massacred, you know, at the mercy of whatever was coming next. a warrior sort of fights because he or she needs that. It's like an expression of their emotional authenticity. and I needed it too because here's my little achilles heel, is I faint at the site of needles. Like I can't stand getting my blood drawn. And here I am, you know, a blood cancer patient. I couldn't even make it to the first orientation session with my wife in the room. she had to stay while I crawled into the hallway.

[01:03:40] Brad Buchanan: Uh, literally. Um,

[01:03:42] Trevor Maxwell: to get some immersion therapy in needles.

[01:03:45] Brad Buchanan: yeah, exactly. And so I felt very ashamed of that squeamishness of course. and I did have moments where I would vagal, you know, that's what they call it, right? and learning that word actually was very helpful. 'cause I would just tell people, Hey, I have a [01:04:00] tendency to vagal, so, let's talk through this.

[01:04:03] Brad Buchanan: You can we discuss like how your children doing? Or whatever. And I learned to tell them, Hey, poke me in my hand, not in my arm. 

[01:04:12] Brad Buchanan: Yep.

[01:04:13] Brad Buchanan: but yeah, like I had to put on my warrior outfit to go in even for a blood draw, because I was like. This is, I know this is like something I feel radically, uncomfortable with that the idea that they're sticking something in me to draw out my lifeblood, just bothers me.

[01:04:32] Brad Buchanan: And it still bothers me, on a very profound level. But I knew I had to fight my way through that feeling. And it did feel like a fight. It felt very war-like, just to go in there and say, damnit, I'm gonna be stronger than this fear, than this squeamishness today. But I also think when you're out of that zone, keeping the warrior fighting mentality for too long can get exhausting.

[01:04:58] Brad Buchanan: And so [01:05:00] I know you have mixed feelings about the battle or

[01:05:03] Trevor Maxwell: OhI've embraced battle terminology a lot and I talk a lot with veterans who are going through cancer and we talk a lot about it. the only place that I get uncomfortable because I've been carved open, right.

[01:05:14] Trevor Maxwell: I've been carved open so many times. my body has gone through a war. the time when I get uncomfortable about it is when someone dies. the phrase lost their battle is about as triggering as it gets. And we can have a whole I want, we should, probably should. Let's do a, I'll have you do a show on terminology like language, preference and terminology. 'cause everyone's different. Right. but yeah, I remember going into the surgeries, you have to get some pretty large gauge needles, inserted.

[01:05:45] Mental Tricks to Go through Hard Stuff

[01:05:45] Trevor Maxwell: And oftentimes they'll do that after anesthesia, but sometimes they do it before. and I remember getting some of those needles put in and I would think of my girls every or every, or even at the early first couple years, I didn't love needles either, [01:06:00] but every time I would have a needle draw or something really hard and kind of scary with a needle, I would just hold my daughter's in my mental palm and say, you know, this is my why.

[01:06:11] Trevor Maxwell: you, I would say that everyone needs to have a why. When they're going through it. And my why has always been, and yes, myself is in there too, but like my biggest why is my girls, and my wife, you know, like my family is my why and I'm part of it. but yeah, I get that about coming up with techniques, right?

[01:06:30] Trevor Maxwell: With almost like brain tricks to go through. hard stuff.

[01:06:34] Brad Buchanan: My trick now is like, I will dig my fingernail into my, another finger to cause pain before the needle actually hits. So I'm focusing on two pain sites at once, so I don't fixate too much on the fact that someone's poking me with something that I really

[01:06:52] Trevor Maxwell: Yeah. Like take a hammer and bang your other hand. 

[01:06:54] Brad Buchanan: Yeah.

[01:06:54] Ports

[01:06:54] Trevor Maxwell: So I'm fortunate, like 

[01:06:55] Trevor Maxwell: I've had a port, I've had a chemo power port, pretty much the whole [01:07:00] time. but even that is strange, right? Like when people see me without my shirt on or whatever and I have to explain, that this is a device, 

[01:07:06] Trevor Maxwell: that's under my skin and my chest. And, you can feel the catheter that's running up into my neck. And goes down into my jugular vein and goes down to where the vein goes into the heart. And, if I think about it a lot, I'm just like, whoa. Like this is messed up.

[01:07:21] Trevor Maxwell: But it's so normalized for me at this point. when you tell people that they look at you and like, whoa,

[01:07:26] Trevor Maxwell: yeah. No, I was the same. And actually having the port line installed, I had a double port line for a long time as well, and it was a relief because like, oh, I don't

[01:07:36] Trevor Maxwell: oh yeah.

[01:07:37] Brad Buchanan: I don't even need to get poked anymore. They just access the port. I could go swimming again. it was one less thing to worry about.

[01:07:44] Trevor Maxwell: Right. 

[01:07:45] Brad Buchanan: what's

[01:07:45] Normalizing

[01:07:45] Trevor Maxwell: It's all, yeah. The things we normalize is pretty crazy. Like when you, you know, when I tell people about my, my history or my surgeries or everything else, like, you kind of just normalize it. Like you, you get through it, you normalize it, but when you tell like a person who hasn't [01:08:00] gone through much, they kind of look at you with a jaw.

[01:08:01] Trevor Maxwell: Like, you don't know how brave you are or how strong you are until you're forced to do those things.

[01:08:08] Trevor Maxwell: Absolutely. 

[01:08:09] Brad Buchanan: Yeah. And people go biblical. They say, oh, you've been through the sufferings of job, or you're like, you know, Virgil, in Dante's Inferno, the guy to the underworld. I'm like, no, I'm actually just Brad kind of

[01:08:23] Trevor Maxwell: Just Brad.

[01:08:24] Brad Buchanan: get through my life. 

[01:08:25] Closing

[01:08:25] Brad Buchanan: well, Trevor, we have had a great chat.

[01:08:28] Brad Buchanan: and I know that Josie is getting a little tired. I don't want to keep you beyond, like, this is now an hour and a half

[01:08:35] Trevor Maxwell: Thank you so much.

[01:08:37] Brad Buchanan: But, yeah, you and I, we can continue this conversation on either your podcast or another episode of this podcast, but I think we've covered the bases that we truly needed to cover to introduce Trevor to the Cancer Survivor MD podcast audience.

[01:08:54] G van Londen: Thank you. Thank you, Trevor. I'm very grateful that you were here to share your story and being [01:09:00] so vulnerable and. I, I, um, if you were here, uh, I would give you a hug, but accept this virtual hug and thank you, Brad, for introducing me to Trevor, and let me know if there's anything I can do for you, Trevor.

[01:09:16] Trevor Maxwell: I just wanna say thank you. thanks for all you do, Dr. Van Londen and Brad. it was a pleasure. You know, I'm like this windup doll. Like, ev everyone who knows me knows that like you, you just wind me up and, and I just go. And the funny thing is like, I wasn't a big talker. I wasn't a big talker before cancer.

[01:09:34] Trevor Maxwell: And now because it's my passion, doing this work and also living it, I just don't shut up. So feel free to cut whatever you need. Um, I can just go on and on, so I hope I didn't right do too much, but I appreciate you having me on your show and thanks for the time. It has been wonderful.

[01:09:50] Brad Buchanan: No, it's a pleasure, Trevor. And honestly, you are modeling the transformation that you are now seeing in other men, right? Like from the depressed [01:10:00] isolation to the, I'm talking about it. And you know, Josie, when you and I get thanked for being vulnerable a lot too, but what's funny is though, I never feel less vulnerable than after I have shared something of emotional significance in a sympathetic audience, right?

[01:10:17] Brad Buchanan: Like a, of course someone could maybe say something rude or who knows what, but like. Nobody does that. Like when someone's sharing something authentic. I, I've never had an experience where I get belittled or made fun of or whatnot, at least not to my face. so yes. thank you Trevor, for being vulnerable, but if you're like me, you feel empowered, after sharing something as personal as your cancer story has been to you and your family.

[01:10:47] Trevor Maxwell: Oh, ab absolutely. And, and the last thing I'll say is this, 'cause I know we gotta hang up, is when you say about modeling, like the journey that I went through, I truly feel this. I couldn't do, you can't do this work [01:11:00] really super effectively in my mind without going through it. 'cause I had to go to those dark places.

[01:11:05] Trevor Maxwell: I had to go through that depression. I had to go through feeling like my life, my will to live was on a thread to be able to say to those people, now I know where you are. To be able to say to those people who are in that place or close to it, I can look at them and say, I know what that place is and that allows me to do this work now because you can't fake that.

[01:11:31] Trevor Maxwell: you can't fake going to those dark places. And I know, Brad, that you Right. I feel like kindred spirits for sure. And the timing, right. Sometimes it takes a while. Like it took a long time for me to get to a place where Right. To engage you and then have you do the workshop and all this stuff.

[01:11:47] Trevor Maxwell: But like, I feel like timing wise, right? You have to wait for stuff.

[01:11:52] Brad Buchanan: We're syncing up.

[01:11:53] Trevor Maxwell: you and I are definitely connected.

[01:11:56] Brad Buchanan: Yeah, I feel great about that. And I'm glad that I was able to step up [01:12:00] in the MANUP to cancer space too, when Northern California needed a new chapter leader.

[01:12:05] Trevor Maxwell: the, just the beginning buddy. So buckle up.

[01:12:08] Brad Buchanan: Okay. Okay. I, I'm here. 

[01:12:10] Trevor Maxwell: All right.

[01:12:11] Brad Buchanan: I'm down. So to be continued.

[01:12:14] Trevor Maxwell: All right. Thank you both. It's been awesome. 

[01:12:16] Brad Buchanan: Thank you, Trevor.