How SHE Turned a Rainy Day Into a Global Success with Dani from Merry People

In this episode of SHE-talks E-commerce, we’re thrilled to meet Dani, the founder of Merry People, which has taken the world by storm with its stylish yet functional gumboots. 

Dani opens up about some of the unique challenges she’s faced along the way, including how Merry People was one of the first to bring on-trend gumboots to the market—and how they’ve dealt with competitors and copycats since. Dani shares her insights on dealing with copycats with grace and strategy, and provides practical advice on how to protect and differentiate your own brand.

We also dive into Merry People’s international expansion, particularly their entry into the US market. Dani discusses the realities of growing overseas and why it’s important not to assume that success in one market guarantees success in another.

We also talk about the reason why Merry People never goes on sale. Dani shares her philosophy behind maintaining premium pricing and how it contributes to the brand’s long-term success.

We dive into: 

✨ Dealing with Copycats: How Dani navigated the challenges of competitors copying Merry People’s designs and the strategies she used to stay ahead. 

✨ International Growth: The highs and lows of expanding Merry People into overseas markets like the US, and the lessons learned along the way. 

✨ The No-Sale Strategy: Why Merry People never goes on sale, and how this approach helps maintain the brand’s value and integrity. 

✨ Balancing Business and Motherhood: Dani shares her experience of growing a successful brand while being a new mum of two.

This episode is brought to you by ShipStation 

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Resources and Links:

Visit Merry People to explore their range of products.

Follow @merrypeople on instagram for their latest news and releases.

Thank you for listening to this episode of SHE-talks! If you loved it be sure to click follow because the episode we have next week is one you WON’T want to miss.

WANT MORE:

• If you’re ready to scale your e-commerce business but aren’t sure where to start, book your FREE 60-Minute Quick Wins Session with our team today. Discover simple, actionable tips that will help you achieve quick wins in your e-commerce journey.
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• Got an idea for an episode or just want to connect? Reach out to us on Instagram at @shecom.co.

Transcript

Lisa Jones (00:01.558)
Hey, Dani, welcome to the podcast today. We are next level excited to talk to you.

Dani Pearce (00:07.43)
Thank you so much for having me. Very honored that you reached out.

Lisa Jones (00:11.274)
Now, and I both big time crush on your brand and I think prior to you joining the poddy today, Mel was even going to put a pair of your gumboots on and then show her legs on the screen only to realise she had a skirt on and maybe nobody needed to see that in case there was video of it. So just trust us when we say we're fans.

Mel Haque (00:28.157)
Thanks for retelling that one, Lisa. But you know, it's absolutely true, Dani. I have had merry people in my life for many years now, and it was one of those things. we'll give you a second shortly to tell everybody about it. But we tend to start these things with all of this excitement. And we desperately want to tell you our stories about your brand. So my business, we actually manufacture here in Melbourne, and we have a big warehouse. And so I'm on my feet at the back a lot of the time on the cement floors.

Dani Pearce (00:28.554)
I will.

Mel Haque (00:57.563)
And everyone, was always like wrecking my sneakers and you know, I have a Play -Doh business. we absolutely, you know, there's a lot of flowers.

But I think that someone said to me once, you need some boots. And I was like, yeah, boots are not going to do the job for me out here. I kept, I'm in Melbourne and you go out and you see these really cool, bright, fun little gumboot things that everyone are wearing. And we'll always say, my God, I love them. What are they? And you wouldn't believe they are all married people. They were, they are, they always are now still. And so I bit the bullet and I bought myself a pair and I read all the reviews online and they absolutely kept saying, you won't believe how comfortable they are.

like walk them in for a week and they'll be the most comfortable thing you ever wore. And I kind of thought to myself, yeah, yeah, like surely, surely not. And I got them, put them on in day one. I was like, they feel okay. But I'm not quite sure if they're exactly what everyone is saying. And the reviews are all saying like literally you to walk them in a little bit within the week. And so I kept wearing them and I wear them everywhere. They are literally the most comfortable. I'm on my second pair now. Always go for something fun and bright.

And so much so that we went and exhibited in New York late last year. And I took my Merry People to New York. And it just so happened to be the week where like literally it was like storming down and there was floods in the city and everything. And I was one of these people looking pretty in my cool Merry People boots and not getting any water in my sneakers. And you wouldn't believe the amount of comments I had from New Yorkers being like, what are they? Where'd you come from? And I was like Australia, of course. But you know, so yeah, I am absolutely a fan. One, because it's a cool and fun brand, but two, because functionally,

Dani Pearce (02:07.904)
Wow.

Dani Pearce (02:25.292)
Mel Haque (02:31.207)
They absolutely are what they say they are. So I want to commend you with that before we start off.

Dani Pearce (02:36.128)
thank you so much. That's, yeah, I love hearing, I love hearing people say that. Yeah, no, I think a part of my story was growing up on a farm and growing up with gun boots that weren't that comfortable. So yeah, I felt like that was a part of the idea. It was like, how can I make these an everyday item? And comfort was a huge part. So yeah, that's awesome to hear that.

Lisa Jones (03:01.228)
So tell us then about the brand story. Like we all as listeners, as she compreners have its brands of our own and we all have a reason we started our brands. And clearly that's the segue into yours. Growing up on farms as well, I couldn't agree more. I know Mel will too, but I can't tell you how many times I had sore heels from wearing dodgy gumboots around the farm all day. So I hear you and I want to know like why marry people and then tell us about the story.

Dani Pearce (03:27.912)
Yeah, no, absolutely. So yeah, I grew up on a farm, one of the wettest parts of Victoria, down a town called Leongathar. And yeah, we grew up, yeah, you need gumboots on the farm. yeah, was when I moved to Melbourne, I was looking for a good pair of quality boots and couldn't find any that I really loved. And the very first time was, yeah, I was going to a music festival and

thought of, like was looking for some gumboots and yeah, I thought there was a bit of a gap in the market. A lot of my friends were buying either really high end type boots or going to like Bunnings or hardware stores. And I felt that there was a gap in the middle of the market. And I thought, I hope someday someone creates a really great gumboot. Like I feel like there's an opportunity there and yeah, didn't really think much of it.

more at that time. And then, yeah, in my late 20s, I again was working in a corporate job, and again, looking for that waterproof pair of footwear. And I just felt that a waterproof, durable pair of footwear was, or pair of boots was just a really

like especially in Melbourne where it can rain at any point, but I just felt that it was just an essential item in someone's wardrobe. The same way you have runners for when you're exercising, have sandals when it's hot, you're going to the beach. If it's raining, you put your waterproof boots on, but just didn't feel like they were done in a way which felt, it was comfortable that people could wear them in an everyday way. So it was just trying to bridge.

the gap and take the functionality of the boots that we grew up with on the farm and then kind of try and combine that with a classic everyday staple. So yeah, that was that was why and where the kind of idea came about.

Mel Haque (05:31.027)
So you were, I'd say the early adopters of actually making the humble gumboot fashionable. So it's been 10 years now. I want to know sort of what changes have you seen in the market and were you the ones, did you start the gumboot revolution?

Dani Pearce (05:46.284)
Well, the Wellington Boot was founded in the UK. I think it was in the mid 1700s. So I can't say that yes, started it in that set. Well, there's been I think a lot over the years, but I do think like particularly in Melbourne, yeah, it was like doing them in this way. I've never seen anyone even Hunter at that point wasn't doing a play boot. So

Mel Haque (05:58.291)
But the fashionable version, I mean.

Dani Pearce (06:15.658)
Yeah, it was the first one that I had, like, I hadn't seen that done before. guess now a lot of brands and even like bigger department store type brands are doing their take on a Gumboot. But yeah, I think we, it definitely has changed over time at the start as well. There wasn't much e -com as well. I was pretty new to it. And I think.

That was also exciting because you were, I guess, I was learning Facebook ads and learning Google and there were some people out there that knew it, but yeah, it was exciting. It was this new way of shopping and yeah, just really trying to grow as an e -com brand. So yeah, I would say that's probably changed over the years and getting more competitors and in terms of the Gumboot landscape, I guess in.

in Victoria, in Australia.

Mel Haque (07:15.485)
would you say? absolutely. heard you say then that, you know, even big department stores and a lot of stores have kind of, and different brands have really delved into this space, which aren't that dissimilar to what you're doing either. what's, what does that mean for you? You know, and I want to call this out because we have a lot of brands that we talk to, and especially in our programs as well, you know, that, have, I don't want to call it a copycat out there by any means necessarily, but you know, other brands that bring out a quite a similar product to what they're doing. And, know, it certainly can get people down.

It can certainly make them stop and look for a little bit. But also, we have our own views on the take that we think people should do when they have this situation. But I'd love to know, in your scenario, what does it mean to you and Mary people when other brands have certainly started bringing out products similar to yours?

Dani Pearce (08:03.966)
Yeah, I would say it happens a lot. First of all, it hurts. I think when you see a close copy, we've had people who have exactly copied our colorways and gone out to retail stores at StockMerry people and say, hey, we'll give you better margin. And they've made a boot which is

nowhere near as good a quality as Merry People. And yeah, obviously our retail is really proud to stop Merry People and would not do that. But yeah, it really hurts at the start, started, yeah, going down the legal path and speaking to lawyers and, but I quickly realized that that's not how I want to spend my time as a founder. And I just realized that, you know, I'd look at other brands like Crocs and

Uggs and I was like, this is going to happen. The bigger Merry People gets, this is just a part of doing business. And for me, realized that, I had this realization that I want people to choose Merry People because they want Merry People. And that's the brand that they connect with and not, and you know, if product A and product B are on a shelf that they choose Merry People, not because it's first to mark, we're first to market, but

because that's the brand that they're proud to wear and they connect with, they know the quality, they know the ethos of the business and they trust us and that's what they want to support. So I think for me, it made me just double down on Merry People and our brand. I guess just to know why thinking about why people would pick us over other

competitors and what made us special and unique. And yeah, just trying to double down on that. But yeah, it absolutely sucks. Like it's the worst feeling in the world when, you know, family members or whoever sends you screenshots of something, they're like, my goodness, I just gonna add to this or look at this store, stocking this and or this website, they've copied your exact copy on your website. And it just hurts because yeah, but at the end of the day, I also think we'll

Dani Pearce (10:30.892)
I know what it's like. know the journey of being in business for 10 years and what it's taken to get to here. And it's not this, it hasn't been an overnight success. And it's, I know the costs of growing and scaling. And I guess with that, it's, I just know it's a long journey. So yes, someone can come around tomorrow and do it, but will they be around in a couple of years or 10 years? And I kind of try to think of that as well.

Lisa Jones (11:00.64)
love that. think that's for the listeners. There's a bunch of things you've just said, Danny, that are so golden. And I'm just going to reframe a couple of them. And I think the first thing is that there's always going to be copycats and they're never going to have a story, a brand story like yours or a quality product like yours. And I think the really important thing here is to remember that and keep staying in your own lane. The second thing is that we can legally pursue and shut down copycats. And I know plenty of brands that do that. But of course, the risk of doing that is not only like wasting

stupid amounts of money on lawyers, which is the worst feeling in the world and I should know. But also it's very distracting. So when we pursue someone legally to stop them emulating us or doing the wrong thing or defamation or all the things that can sometimes happen for business owners. And I'm not minimizing legitimate trademark, you know, things that need to be legally pursued. But generally speaking, copycat stuff, it's an important topic to discuss.

in my opinion, is that it really distracts us from what we're to do, which is the business building and the community and loyalty building. And I also this year, we faced here at Shecom something we could have pursued as a defamation case and minimum lawyer fees were going to be $30 ,000. But it wasn't just the money because of course, that's who wants to spend that. No, thank you. But secondly, it was the distraction, the noise, the loudness that would have stopped us from doing what we do so beautifully. So we made a choice just to let it go, not

pursue it at all and I hear you and how difficult that can be. But I applaud you for making what I consider also to be the absolute only choice in this situation.

Dani Pearce (12:35.54)
Yeah, no, it absolutely sucks. It's the worst. It's the worst. it just takes a little bit to get through it. But I think you just realize that there's no, that the outcome, it's just always going to happen and there's no outcome, I guess. But yeah, in going down that pathway and it's not beneficial. So it can take a little bit.

Lisa Jones (12:55.84)
And there's more than enough people in the world to buy what it is that we need to sell, is my opinion. And I think it's our responsibility at that point to simply be better at what we do and to communicate our story better and to expand what we do rather than contract what we do. I think that, and we'll talk in a second about going global. I'm really interested to hear about other markets that you've moved into as well. But I do, one more question I want to ask, I suppose, is around the

the cost to us as founders. I heard you pause a couple of times when you said the how much it sucks when families send screenshots and we all know that feeling and the roller coaster of being a she comprenere is really tough, especially as you just shared with us off podcast, you've just had your second baby and hormonally women, really suffer with a lot of physical hormones that make the overwhelm or the emotions about stupid shitty business stuff like that.

really rollercoastery, like tell us if you've learned anything about yourself during this period of trying to navigate that.

Dani Pearce (14:01.91)
would say I think over the years and I think at the start of Merry People, there's a lot of challenges and obviously like just getting it off the ground to start with and you know, you don't have a lot of money like I'm I'm still a bootstrapped business. So yeah, that I was I think lacking in confidence. I've come from a banking background. This wasn't my

Yeah, background, I guess. and then also, I think, so yeah, I think there was a confidence and knowledge gap as well at the start. So I think for me, it's just a huge hurdle and the huge hurdles that you've got to get over at the start and just building that resilience. And I think that's kind of what has helped me. think once you can get over that big hurdle at the start, there's just always going to be things throughout the journey, which will pop up.

And for me, it's, yeah, there's just been this level of resilience that surprises me. And maybe even motherhood has also built into that as well. I think, yeah, it's just over time, I've just gotten better. And it's just been with experience, with understanding that where my energy, when the business benefits, when

my energy is channeled in a certain way versus on some of the loud and noisy distractions. yeah, it, I think it's just over time, I've just gotten better at it. And it's just, you, you just see building blocks, blocks of resilience in the challenges that have, yeah, that you have along the journey. so yeah, I can't put it down to one single thing.

Lisa Jones (16:00.13)
Perhaps like the belief, suppose, of where your business is going, like hanging on to that. think after a certain point that you've been in business for long enough, you start to think, well, as I'm continuing to grow, clearly I've got an exit plan or a goal here. And I think knowing that we've got that bigger picture at play helps us deal with resilience on a daily basis. That's my story anyway.

Dani Pearce (16:22.602)
Yeah, I think also I genuinely love what I do. I love my team. I really believe in our product and how we do business. And I'm really proud of that. And I think like coming into work and yeah, think every, every like, I've never walked into the office and not wanted to be here. And I think that also is a, that kind of helps me as well. And seeing how

what you've created as the team and everyone get excited about what the business is doing. I think that's a really kind of a great thing to be a part of, helps, I guess. Yeah, it helps me with my motivation. not that that's, but yeah, helps me with having that guiding light, I guess, on what's important.

Lisa Jones (17:14.262)
Yeah, because there's nothing worse than coming to work and feeling like you don't want to be there. I feel like it's always a radar piece for us if we've got that feeling when we approach work of, then we have to really question what it is we're doing. So I love that you know that you have that affirmation that you're in the right place because you still feel really passionate about what you're building. Let's.

Dani Pearce (17:32.138)
Yeah, I do. And don't get me wrong, there's definitely days or times where there's parts of my job which are really tough and hard and things that you don't want to do but you have to do them. And yeah, it's not all merriness. But yeah, for the most part, it is really wonderful. And yeah, I do love being here.

Mel Haque (17:51.026)
Yeah.

Lisa Jones (17:57.162)
Amazing. Let's have a chat around selling in Australia. So we talked, you mentioned earlier about how gumboots are important for a Melbourne wardrobe. And I was having a little chuckle because I live on the Gold Coast and we wouldn't pull gumboots out here very often. And I think it's very relevant to places that maybe rain more. So tell us what other markets you've found in the world where you need people to be wearing Merry People gumboots.

Mel Haque (18:19.603)
Hang on, a second, you're on the Gold Coast? What do mean it doesn't rain there? It rains there an incredible, crazy amount all the time! I'm gonna, Lisa Jones, take that back.

Lisa Jones (18:26.784)
We're, dude, we just wear bare feet around. Have you seen people on the Gold Coast? We just walk through it in thongs. Pluggers, mate, pluggers.

Dani Pearce (18:28.982)
Yeah.

Mel Haque (18:32.658)
my god!

How I forget being an ex -Queenslander over here? Queenslanders don't wear shoes, of course. Okay, okay, we digress because I was like, what are you talking about? Okay, back to you, Dani, and what markets have you found that your product has really worked for?

Lisa Jones (18:40.97)
No, plugins.

Dani Pearce (18:46.86)
Haha

Dani Pearce (18:51.826)
Well, it's interesting you say that Lisa, because we have quite a big customer base in Queensland. So we get.

Lisa Jones (19:00.866)
Clearly I'm gonna eat my gumboot, Denny.

Dani Pearce (19:04.606)
It's actually because we and that's what I wanted with Mary people as well. I didn't think in Australia being a gumboot in itself was like the potential was just to be an everyday boost. And so that's what we've tried to do with the product. And so, yeah, we get a lot of farmers, people that work, you know, florists, people on their feet all day on concrete. We get

gardeners. Yeah, just anyone that needs a comfy, durable, everyday boot and also loves the colors and wants to wear it as a little bit more of a fashion item. So yeah, in terms of the Australian market. And yeah, at the start when I came up with the idea and I was selling at farmers markets, it was initially around rain. But then

through selling direct and meeting customers, that's when I started to hear about all the reasons of why they were wearing the boots or why they needed the boots in their lives. And that's kind of where I learned that actually these can be used in so many different ways. And that kind of opened up a whole new market for me.

Mel Haque (20:27.911)
Sorry, I lost my mute button there for a second.

Lisa Jones (20:29.506)
Sorry, I thought I hit mute when I was writing something in the document and I didn't realise I hadn't muted. It's been a day, a week, a month, Danny, sorry. We'll just have to get that edited out. Sorry, RJ.

Dani Pearce (20:36.764)
That's all right.

Mel Haque (20:38.791)
I got the timestamp. We're having one of those moments where we're just gonna like scrap this little section. So don't worry, Danny. This is what happens on podcasts. We get a bit wild. Okay, we got it. No. We.

Dani Pearce (20:46.444)
all right. If you want I can say that again. It's all good.

Lisa Jones (20:53.792)
Yeah, I think so. Jay can just take my recording and edit that out. That's my fault, sorry. I didn't realize I did that, but it's okay. Yes, so tell us about what works for you globally then. Like what markets are successful for you and how successful in the sense that like, what is the strategy for married people moving forward? And I think it's an interesting thing to talk about because here in this tiny little land called Australia, everybody has this global goal of like,

Dani Pearce (20:59.914)
Nice.

All good.

Lisa Jones (21:21.474)
If we've only got X amount of million people here and they have 10 times the population in the US, for example, like it's an obvious global expansion, woo ha ha ha kind of strategy for Australian brands. So like, what does it look like for Mary people to grow?

Dani Pearce (21:37.172)
Yeah, so for me, I, I've had to question this a little bit for me as well since becoming a mom, you kind of question like, why do you want to grow? And what's, what's important to me as a founder and my life as a mom, like, what do I want? And so I have to kind of every now and then recalibrate and go, why am I doing this? And yeah, really draw back to that. But we,

We started growing, we started just organically getting sales in the U S maybe four or five years ago when we, when I really started putting more into Facebook ads and, and we started to develop a bit more of a following there. And so we, I, was very, maybe a little bit clumsy in how it all started, but with boots and shopping online,

Yep. Around 10 to 15 % of the time customers need to exchange their size. So with the US, I started just running ads over there. And then obviously if customers wanted to exchange their boots, then they had to send them back to Australia, which was costing them like $200. I couldn't bring them back to Australia even below my cost price. I was kind of saying, look, just keep the boots. We'll send you another pair. I was like, this isn't really a...

scalable way of growing. So I got a web pass through a friend of a friend, got in contact with someone who was willing to take with us on for very small volumes. And that's kind of how it started. And then I just was like, I just want to test this out. I want to send a few pallets of stock and just start being a little bit more, put more money into my ad spend and see if things convert.

I guess, created a bit of a business case to if we should launch in the US, essentially. And it worked. It did really well. So that's kind of what started with our, I guess, expansion because it was very small to start with. But I think particularly we've got a US business and a UK business, so they sit as separate entities in our balance sheet.

Dani Pearce (24:02.444)
We, I think with the US particularly, can talk to UK as well, which we only launched, I think just over 18 months ago there. But the US has been, we have had year on year growth at it and it is growing, but has been a more challenging market for us. It is a very tough market to crack. But I think for us, similar to Melbourne, we've had to really educate why you need

Mel Haque (24:25.992)
Thank

Dani Pearce (24:32.08)
our boots and it's they're used to rain boots probably being similar to the boots that we had. Yeah, like a very functional type item. And so we're trying to educate that there it is that it is this everyday boots. And I think also the retail landscape there is really different. There is a lot more Amazon is a lot bigger over there. And

Bricks and mortar is also a lot bigger over there. Everything's bigger over there. But they don't have a lot of the lifestyle boutique stores that we have in Australia. So we're having to, I guess, just adapt our strategy and not just do what's worked over here, over there, and really lean into advisors who are on the ground there. We go over there. We do trade shows over there. And yeah, a couple of times a year.

myself or someone in the team is going over to do B2B or B2C type meetings. yeah, it has been, and again, we're doing it bootstrapped. it's, think how much risk we're willing to take and just reassessing what feels realistic with our team size and our

current, yeah, guess financials. And so, yeah, I think for us, we're just trying to be super focused in the US, only focus. I think initially I went in and I was like, let's just do what we did in Australia and let Facebook algorithm work out, like just put the money in and let it, but there's too many people in the US and we don't have enough money. I don't think it'd just be a waste of like, we couldn't do that. And I tried initially, I was like, right, I'm just going to go really heavy for a week.

and just see if the Facebook algorithm can learn, but it didn't. So I just lost a lot of money. So yeah, we're now just trying to really be hyper -focused on areas that are working. done, we definitely have, we're starting to develop a bit more of a community in the U .S. particularly in like the Pacific Northwest region where it is wet. And so we're just trying, we do,

Dani Pearce (26:55.084)
analysis of our top 20 customers, we do surveys to them and like, why do you like marry people? And just try to understand segments of their life and then trying to double down on what's working, I guess. So that's kind of essentially for the the for the US. UK is really different because they get gumboots they invented. sorry, you want to say something about

Mel Haque (27:21.327)
No, well, just wanted, before we jump onto the UK, I just want to rephrase a couple of things that you've said there, because I'm going to put my hand up over here. I have had the exact same experience with the U S as well. And I know we have a lot of listeners out there who, you know, we're all hunting that pipe dream. mean, like, come on the people in New York, the population in New York is literally the entire population of Australia. So why wouldn't all of us Aussie businesses want to get over there and go more global? But

I think there's a couple of really key and important things that you've noted, which is the idea of just where gunning it in Australia, let's just do what we do here and take it there does not actually work. so many stories has come out of it. You know, it makes sense, right? I did the exact same thing with my brand wild dough. Like, it's winning here. I'm going to do the same thing there. We're going to win there. It's not actually how it works there.

And it's the experience you've had as well. And that's a really common experience with a lot of brands. So I love that you've said, you know, we've got some advisors on the ground. We're actually looking at the U S market. We're trying to figure out how, you know, how we have our own path there and what it looks like. And I tell, I tell everybody here that, nine times out of 10, it's not the same way that we've entered the Australian market. But the other thing that I, my experience has led me to, which has been really, really important is that building brand actually makes a difference.

And I think as businesses, we kind of forget that during, you know, our, our initial growth periods in Australia, and as we're kind of getting out there and everything, we are also not just, you know, making new customers and actually, you know, growing business. We're building a brand here. It doesn't mean that every, every person of a street knows who you are, but there are pockets that will know what these brands are. And I can attest that in Australia, in Melbourne, particularly with married people, everyone knows what married people is. Right. And similarly here in Australia, like a lot of.

the market that I play in knew what Wildo was. So I took then my current collections I had here straight to the US based on the idea that I could just launch it there. It did not work. And the other thing was, no one had heard of it before. And so I suddenly went, gosh, I've got to go back to basics, which is exactly what you had to do as well and educate about products, about brand, about quality. And I think it's a little bit of an eye opener for us here in, as an Australian business as well.

Mel Haque (29:37.969)
You know, I, there's not a lot of businesses that launch here and it's in six months. trying to go global and everything. You know, it does take a little bit of time sometimes. And I think that during that time of great to where ready, we forget that we have some really solid foundations here and foundations that maybe not that easy to build there overnight. So I just wanted to kind of reiterate that for everybody, but also, you know, if you've had a not great experience there so far, it doesn't mean that you can't do it. means that we need to think about it a little bit differently, but also.

You know, don't be hoodwinked into thinking that whatever you've got going here can be translated straight there overnight, I guess, if you can do it hats off to you and kudos to those brands that can. But I think it's not the, you know, it's not everybody can and in fact, not even the majority can either. So before you jump into the UK, I just want to ask you a couple of, know, what's your top two tips of any brand in Australia that's thinking about going into the US? Like what have you learned that you go wish I hadn't known that when I did it?

Dani Pearce (30:35.7)
I think number one would be understanding or trying to understand your product market fit. So I think we knew that here and what your, I guess, USP is. So yeah, I think that was probably for us, like going over there and actually talking to customers and talking to retailers and understanding

for why they actually liked our product over there. And it was different over here. And for the US particularly, like we have to lean into functionality a lot more than what we do here. Like here we're a bit more fashion, yeah, happiness, color. For there, it's been, yeah, more function, utilitarian. And we had to go over there and learn that and kind of adjust our language and I guess top.

selling, on how we spoke to the product had to change. I would say that. I think number two is probably going over there. And that's something that I might be at some stage really living over in the US for a little bit in the next couple of years. that's something that is exciting or a little scary. just as a family, we've had

gone over. It's been, very exciting as well, but it's costly. And you know, upriding our family to do that is, yeah, is a big thing. But I think particularly the US people like, and it is a little bit more old school in how people in retail work, and they like to pick up the phone and speak to someone they like to speak to the owner, they like to be able to call you on their time.

And yeah, you kind of have to be a little bit more in their face around ordering. It's not in Australia, wholesale business just kind of, you know, we've got some of the managers that they kind of go in place your orders and it's kind of a little bit self -management there. have to call retailers and we have to be a little bit more on the front foot. So that they're probably, there's probably more than do there, but there's some learnings that I've had over.

Dani Pearce (33:03.51)
the last couple of years.

Mel Haque (33:05.607)
they're great learnings. And don't worry. it's always astounds me. The fact that a lot of the things in the U S is so far advanced, but also like there's so many chunks of things that are actually just like so much behind it. Then Australia is as well. Same like all of that hostiles want to just give me my login so I can come in order from you. But in the U S you're exactly right. They w they need phone numbers and God faxes or something going on. It's, it's, it's very different, but also, it's a really good learning for us that we can't just assume that everywhere is, is like here.

Lisa Jones (33:34.902)
Hey Mel, what about Danny? We had one of our clients just at the New York Now show just recently and she was saying lots of the American buyers were saying to her, it's really normal for us to assume that a brand is going to chase us at least seven times. And she told us that and we were like,

Dani Pearce (33:51.637)
Hmm.

Lisa Jones (33:53.388)
horrified because if we chased someone seven times here in Australia, they probably put an AVO out on us saying this is like stalking mate. But in America, there's an expectation and I think it's a reminder to those that try and navigate the cross global selling, which we all want to do. It's just very different and we have to understand what that market looks like. I think you're right. Like if you've identified that there's an opportunity to grow there, you love the well, you know what, I'm just going to move there for a while and throw myself at it. I think that's a really

Dani Pearce (33:58.432)
Hahaha!

Lisa Jones (34:21.876)
interesting approach. will enjoy talking to you after you've moved to the US. We will do another podcast in a couple of years and we will get all of the insider gossip out of you and how it works. But let's jump over for a second to Cashflow. So lots of women who are building e -commerce brands. In fact, Mel, I'm pretty sure I could like say on behalf of both of us, have never

Met a Shecom printer that says, have loads of cash and it's never a concern. Like it literally just isn't a thing for all of us. Cashflow is always a bitch. I see you said it earlier, bootstrapped, Shecom's bootstrapped too. I literally, I think a lot of women do it. And there's a, I did raise capital in my Nappy brand. And I also lost control of my company through the capital I raised. So I think there's a lot of risk for women. We get potentially a little bit more bullied than men might in that cap raising space.

So I'm so interested to hear like what your thoughts are around bootstrapping and what you've learned in your journey around either debt funding, considering cap raises. mean, Merry People I'm sure would be an epic brand for equity crowdfunding or are you just literally living off the cashflow? And by the way, sorry, that's a lot of questions. I really want to pick up a piece you said earlier around like how much is enough? And I want to applaud you for that too because...

Dani Pearce (35:12.161)
Mm

Lisa Jones (35:36.834)
We see this a lot with women with e -commerce brands that there is ego attached to the idea that I need to build it to be a $50 million empire. And maybe we don't, maybe with little kids, actually whatever we're doing right now is enough. So I really love that you even questioned that, but then tell me how that ties into growing to do with cash. I'd just love to know your approach on this.

Dani Pearce (35:57.962)
Yeah. So I think at the start, like in terms of managing cash, like I was doing it all myself and an advisor of mine helps me in building a cash flow forecast where every week I would estimate my sales and I had all my costs. And then at the end of the, like the bottom line, it would show my estimated cash in the bank. And when I was placing

P like orders, I would, yeah, just forecast that out and go, well, can I afford this? if my conservatively, if my sales are this for the next 10 to 12 weeks, then what does, what's my cash balance going to look at? And I think I developed a real, discipline there, which around working within my means and balancing risk and reward, guess, or like potential revenue.

so, and through that, I negotiated more favorable credit terms with my factory. So I just said, look, I, at the start I was paying money upfront and I said, look, I would be able to, order more if you could give me more favorable credit terms. And so I think we, yeah, we negotiated 20 % deposit, 40 % on, bill of lading and then.

50 days post delivery for my final amount, which was amazing. And that really helped me with cash at the start. I did pre -orders at the start, which I was really nervous to do. didn't think people would order pre -order, but I was selling, you I was funding full containers through pre -orders. Like it was amazing that people were willing to part with their money and not receive the product for up to eight weeks.

That was just really critical for me at the start in terms of being able to grow without having to get financial support or backing. I was interested, so that was some of the things I think just helped me early days in managing cash flow, but I was in there daily. Yeah, just if things had changed in the business, if sales had dropped a little bit, I'd kind of go back in and...

Dani Pearce (38:21.056)
re -forecast and go, you know, what if this happened or what if sales declined even more? So I was, was constantly in there and I always knew what my cash position was going to be three months out. So if there was something there, then I could potentially, you know, and PayPal offer instant working capital if you need as well. So as an e -com business, so you can kind of check how much you're eligible for at any point. So I use them a lot.

the start. in terms of the investor pathway, it was interesting because when I started Meri, I didn't even know that was an option. Everyone thinks I'm crazy and starting this business, who is going to invest in me? And I didn't even know that was an option. And it wasn't until I did a business accelerator where that's all that anyone talked about was raising and funding. And that seemed to be the measure of success of the business was how much money you could get capitalized, how much you can get in investment.

I think I had a few people that spoke to me early on. I didn't really think that, at the time, also didn't need the money. And I didn't know what I would do with the money. Someone gave me a million dollars. was like, well, customers are paying for my products. I've got this working capital there.

it's enough. don't want to go from here to, you know, here tomorrow. it was, it was enough and I, yeah, so I, and I still haven't completely rolled it out for down the track, but I've enjoyed being a bootstrapped business because my focus is on my product. It's on my customer and it's on my team. It's not on shareholder returns and.

I think because of that, that has helped in the product we deliver, the community we've created. We've got a customer service team that are here and they're talking to customers all the time. And we do lots of things that if you had investment, you wouldn't do them because shareholders would not be okay with money going to those types of activities. I think...

Dani Pearce (40:44.992)
I've been able to do all the weird and wonderful things of being a founder because I've been bootstrapped. And it's also been amazing as becoming a mom. And I've just yet had my second and being able to go through that journey without having a board of directors to report to and where I need to hit certain KPIs. It's, you know, I've got a great leadership team who were all like, Danny, go have your baby. We've got this.

And we'll come back to you if we need anything. yeah, so I, I don't know with our potential growth strategy, like with our growth in the U S and UK, whether it might make sense down the track to bring on a partner. But for now I'm, I really enjoy having, I guess the freedom of a bootstrapped business and not having the pressures of advisors to dictate, the decisions I make.

But yeah, that's just my sense. yeah.

Lisa Jones (41:43.33)
I hear you on that. I think there's a lot to be said in the same vein as like, you know, illegal suit pursuing copycats. So can a cap raise also. Both the actual cap raise itself is incredibly distracting. Having done it myself, I lost like a year of my life and the first round of private equity investors that we pitched to did due diligence on us that nearly took, lost like 12 weeks of my life, like 15 hours a week I needed to feed them information and

In the end, they said no, and I was like in such disbelief and I thought, my God, like what a distraction from what we're actually here to do. So I do hear what you're saying. And I think it's a really valid point that just it's just a reminder that for the beautiful ladies listening that not everybody's version of success looks the same as everybody else's. And we have to constantly as e -commerce founders, we have to constantly weigh out what we're prepared to put in and what we need to get out of the business. And I love a lot of the shares you've had today, Danny, because there are women we interview on the potty who are like,

Dani Pearce (42:20.203)
Hmm.

Lisa Jones (42:43.426)
hungry to be a Christy Chong with $140 million money body exit, you know, and to do that, you have to sacrifice a lot. And you do have to have a board of directors and you do have to do this and you do have to do that. And I think that isn't for everybody. And kudos to you for recognizing that the freedom to make decisions in your business as your own decisions and having the team that you want around you and not getting distracted by all these other projects. It's the way you want to do it. I love it. That's such beautiful sharing. Thank you.

Dani Pearce (43:13.164)
thank you. think, I think it's also kind of what you said before. Excuse me. It's why it's like, why do I want to grow and be this like, you know, 200, whatever billion dollar business. it's like, why, what, what would that mean for me? And I know that I don't, my happiness levels, I think as soon as I was able to pay myself a wage, which was enough to sustain

me in my life and it wasn't even a lot. was like, think once they was able pay myself a hundred thousand dollars, I was like, I felt like I'd made it. Like I felt like this was all I ever wanted. I remember all the market days of struggling to get by and all I ever wanted was for this project or this idea that I had to be what was my full -time job and that it was able to

give me a life where I didn't have to worry about paying for things. And as soon as I got to that, like everything else has been a bonus. And I still feel like that. still feel that, yeah, I'm so happy and proud of what I've done. But yeah, I don't think that even if Merry People was turning over, you know, a lot more that...

my happiness levels would change. So I want to enjoy the journey. want to enjoy being a parent and everything that comes with founder life and just don't want to be racing for that check, which is not even my goal anyway. I've got no plans at this stage to sell marry people. that's something I like my husband and I talk about a little bit as well.

Mel Haque (45:00.869)
take us back over to the channels that you have of Meri people. And obviously we've spoken a little bit about, you know, wholesale and stockers. You've got your e -commerce as well. You did mention though, you do go to a lot of trade fairs. So I just want to loop back to that a little bit because we have a lot of people out there who are really interested. We're talking as trade fairs in Australia or internationally. And, you know, I'm in the kids space over here. So the view I have on this is going to be a lot different from potentially the fairs you're going to.

So I'd love to know in terms of really supercharging your wholesale business or even direct to customer expos, like what are you doing in this space? What are some of the big ones that you recommend, whether they're here or somewhere else that you've had some really good experiences at?

Dani Pearce (45:43.56)
Yeah, so we, had, I did do life in style when I started very early days and that didn't go as well, I had no consumer awareness of very people. people were still interested in the product, it wasn't what I, you know, I thought I'd just go there and I'd just write hits of orders, but it absolutely wasn't that, but it definitely, think trade shows is a great way to learn about.

what retailers and their customers, what might be important to them and to really get to know that market. So in Australia, we don't really do them anymore. I think we've got around 65 stockists and we try to keep it because we never go on sale. We try to just have select stockists in

particular areas and really protect them and give them as much as we can. run ads to try and get people to their stores and we, yeah, we just, we try to make sure that they've got enough support there. And, and that kind of just really ticks on for us, yeah, for here, but for the US and UK, it is really that kind of brand discovery. And so being in the right stores in the right areas, when our

we were doing our Facebook and Google ads, if people go into our website, they're like, they've got a stock list here and I know that region and it can give you some more, I guess, clout or...

Mel Haque (47:25.873)
credibility you get depending on the brands and stores that you're in for sure. I agree with that. Hey, I'm having kittens over here about something you've said, so I really need to jump in. We never go on sale. Merry people never goes on sale. One, actually, I've forgotten this, but as a consumer and a fan of your brand, I do know this. We just need to talk about this, Klee, for a second. Why? Tell us why.

Dani Pearce (47:30.346)
Yeah, credibility.

Dani Pearce (47:46.528)
Mm -mm.

Dani Pearce (47:50.752)
Okay.

Mel Haque (47:54.707)
Tell us why you made this decision, but more importantly, tell us what it means to, I guess, your buyers and consumers. And, you know, it's a never, never go on sale.

Dani Pearce (48:05.012)
Yes. So I think at the start, didn't, when I was like even just costing out like my margin sheet, I didn't even think about going, having a sale margin in there. And so I kind of just worked out my price based on that. And then I remember like I started Merry People and I remember like thinking about it. I'm like, well, if I put the boots on sale and I'm planning to sell these,

all the time, what is that going to do for future sales? I just, think I, because I haven't come from a business or fashion or e -comm from a, I've come from it more from a consumer lens. And I just started that I think my awareness, my, or my knowledge of the retail landscape was more from a consumer lens before starting Merry People. So

Yeah, for me, I was like, well, I hate it when things go on sale. I hate buying things and then, you know, two months later you see them on the sale rack. So for me, I was like, I'm just not going to go on sale. Like I am just going to try and do this for as long as I can. And if we sell out a product, awesome. but yeah, I just don't want to discount my product and I don't want to, I want to keep a strong brand. And so.

Yeah, for me, was, it was that it was, I think, respecting customers in, and just trying to do the price at an amount that I felt was fair. That was had enough margin for us, but then was not, not too high because a lot of retailers, they priced their products, as you would know, to discount it at the end of the season. So, I was like, let's just keep it at like.

arrange, is fair, and that we can sell it at that margin all year round. And it's been, it's been really great. I think the team, I actually, it's not one thing that I didn't think how much the team all love it. lot of people that have come from retail backgrounds that are constantly just chasing sales, especially in the marketing area, they're like, it's so great that we can just work on campaigns and work on creative and be fun with our messaging.

Dani Pearce (50:23.306)
I think with our merchant commercial team, that's been a constraint they've had to work with in when we order things, it's knowing that we don't have that lever to go on sale and that we need to move through this stock. So being more having, I guess, that risk mindset with ordering. so we've just, we've built in some structure there that based on the time of year that we're launching and how risky we think the product is, the thresholds of what we're comfortable with ordering.

So I think it's created some really good discipline for us in how we order and how we operate. But also like from a sustainability perspective, like we've never dumped anything in landfill. I heard this crazy statistic that most, a lot of retail businesses, a third of their product gets sold at full price, a third gets sold at sale and the other third goes into landfill. And so for us, we...

like we are, yeah, I feel like we're doing our part in the world in trying to create a good product and ordering what we think we can sell. And yeah, making sure that we're not contributing to the huge problem of what happens in the retail trade. So yeah, a lot there.

Lisa Jones (51:44.034)
Hey, Danny, I want to ask you, we're almost out of time on the potty today and we often have a question we ask right at the end and something I'm really keen if we could get a couple of short, sharp answers. If you have them, if it comes to mind around like three actions that you think have made the biggest impact on sales growth, because as you would know, like everybody hopes to the Kool -Aid and wants to know what are the quickest things they can do to drive money into their business. And like, I'm just wondering whether it was...

a really slow, long burn for you guys, or whether there were a couple of things that were bit dynamic at certain points in the growth journey where you can pinpoint and then say, well, definitely running ads, blah, blah, blah, that was one of our impactful pieces. you know, it could be one of the ladies we interviewed earlier was talking about, you know, TV networks. Like, is there something in particular that you feel has had a big impact on sales growth for many people?

Dani Pearce (52:35.1)
I number one was me understanding customers and going out to markets early on and learning about what was important to customers about our product and then incorporating that into my website, into our copy and even thinking about in terms of the creative and the imagery that we were showing. I would say that's really been a big one. I think

that being a very values based business and being very transparent on all of that has really connected with our community and has helped build that loyal following and the word of mouth support of Merry People. And that took a little bit for me to feel comfortable with, with being the face of the business and being on the website and selling direct even. Like I felt really nervous selling direct and even telling people that Merry People is my business. I felt like I don't.

feel like I'm this alpha female who I think, yeah, so for me it was learning to feel comfortable in who I was and being authentic in that and just really trying to own that. And I think that's a scary, like a weird, as a female founder, I my reference of female founders, like, I don't know, like Janine Ellis and like some just, or even on Shark Tank, you're like, they're these really confident,

women who just speak in a certain way and I'm not like that and I'm more softly spoken and I think I had a lot of I guess yeah doubt in myself early on. So I think learning to trust and own who I was and own my values and be authentic and I would say they were a couple of the things that have really helped connect and grow married people.

Lisa Jones (54:29.922)
Amazing. Thank you so much for your inspiring shares today. I think there's a lot of really beautiful gold nuggets in the podcast episode today that a lot of women will reflect upon. And I'm really grateful that you took the time, to share them with us today. We will most definitely keep crushing on your brand. And I promise to become a Merry People customer here on the Gold Coast. And the next time it rains, I will wear my Merry People with pride and tag you on socials.

Dani Pearce (54:54.678)
Thanks Lisa, thanks Mel for having me. loved of lab chatting to you both today.

Mel Haque (55:00.735)
it's been so wonderful to meet you here and to hear your story. So thank you, Danny.

Lisa Jones (55:05.474)
Thanks, Denny.

Dani Pearce (55:06.26)
No problem.

Lisa Jones (55:09.364)
Okay, let me just hit.